Years ago my parents kept a lot of cash in their home safe. 200k. They refused to put it in a savings account. I convinced them to at least let us put it in a safe deposit box and use it for their long term health needs. My brother and I share ownership of the box. My mother passed away a few weeks ago. My father is suffering from early dementia. My brother wants to take half the money and invest it in his own name. I refuse. He says he will do it anyway when he comes to town next month. Should I take the money and put it in a hysa for my dad? Or should I just move it to another safe deposit box?
Posted by Freewill21
20 Comments
Your brother wants to steal money from your dad? Ya…you do whatever you need to keep the money away from your brother.
This is bad all the way around. Since the money is in a safe deposit box that you both own, the money isn’t your dad’s. It belongs to the two of you. So he can talk half the money. If you take the money it would be considered theft.
The box should have been under your dad’s name.
EDIT: Many people are stating the money still belongs to the dad. Morally they are correct. However, the bank and police have no choice but to assume the content of a safety deposit box is owned by those renting the box unless and until it can be proven otherwise. With cash, whoever is holding it is the assumed owner unless it can be proven otherwise.
If I were to hand you a $100 bill. Unless I can prove that I own that bill, the police and the courts will not force me to return it.
If your father has dementia, you should file for a conservatorship so that you can protect his finances. Your brother taking half the funds and investing it in his own name could be considered a form of financial elder abuse and you’ll want to protect your father from this.
If your father is still competent to sign legal documents then you can have him sign a power of attorney giving you control over his finances.
Either way, speak to an estate planning attorney.
Your dad has dementia … Does he qualify for Medicaid?
You don’t want any assets in his name that can be clawed back.
With that said, keep the money safe from your brother. Not his
This is just bad all around and you need to get an elder care attorney fast!
First, you can’t put the money in his name. There will be a lot of red flags. Also, if your dad will need Medicare, Medicare can pull that money before any benefits.
You need to get a Power of Attorney on your dad (get a lawyer). From there, you can establish an Irrevocable Trust and then open an account for his benefit, then deposit the money. Again, you need an attorney for this.
This is less of a personal finance question, and more of a legal question. Obligatory IANAL.
With $200k on the line I think you seriously need to talk to a real lawyer to get next steps. Seriously.
Lawyer’s aren’t that expensive when you aren’t taking them to criminal trials. One would *happily* advise you for a very small consulting fee, I’d bet some local lawyers would do it for free hoping to keep your business long-term (especially now that they know you have $200k and a POS brother).
You and your brother *share ownership* of that safety deposit box. The bank will certainly let either one of you withdraw however much of it you want, because it’s your box. The bank isn’t regulating what happens to what’s in that box. It’s not their business.
But it gets tricky from a *legal* perspective. Physical possession does not mean ownership. If you’re holding that money on *his behalf*, that money remains his asset.
Did your father ***give*** you that $200k? Not physically, I mean did they legally transfer it to you. Was it a gift? Is there some sort of contract/paperwork involved? *Did you pay taxes on it*? A gift that large would carry with it tax implications, you’re only allowed to get $18k/year without reporting it.
Or does the $200k still legally belong to your father? The fact your father just kept that in cash can mean things are even murkier…. if you or your brother try to make a claim its yours, the IRS is going to have questions about where it came from and why you didn’t pay taxes on it.
I’m guessing they didn’t “give” it to you, but if they did, everything becomes a lot simpler. You and/or your brother each own exactly as much as your father formally transferred to each of you. Your father can’t just say “You both have this $200k now, have fun”.
If you, or your brother, claim ownership over that money when it technically doesn’t belong to you, you’re both potentially committing a crime.
Please for the love of god, when there’s 6 figures involved, talk to a lawyer. Nipping this in the bud before you or your brother accidentally robs your father will make your life significantly easier in the future.
I would move the money into a high yield savings. Ideally this should have been done a while ago to invest into a savings or index stock account.
It sounds like it will need to be drawn down soon for his care. So the latter isn’t an option anymore. As for the legality of it, the bank just knows who owns the box. Not the contents. If your brother is going to fight you for it, or you fight him, it will be an uphill battle.
Not legal advice but to me, If he already signalled his intent to take it for himself, it’s a race to see who takes it first at this point .
I suggest putting it all in another safety dep box that bro cannot access.
When he comes to town sched an appt with an appropriate lawyer you both attend.
There are several laws in play and appropriate counsel is in order.
And bro is going to get super angry…keep in mind he set up the drama, not you.
Really sorry for all this, kudos for you wanting to do the sane and right thing.
Peace.
Bank will ask where the money came from if you try a CD, etc. they will report deposits of more than 10k. Uncle same will ask too and if taxes where paid on this cash
Also might want to see if the safe deposit agreement specifically prohibits keeping money in it. All the banks I worked for did not allow it.
Not weighing in on integrity matters. However there isn’t a chance I would have that money in a safe deposit box knowing the owner is dying. Not an attorney but all sorts of rules around who can access safety deposit boxes after death. Agree on getting it into a bank account, registered correctly, at a minimum.
Whatever you do, do it legally. Spend some money, talk to a lawyer and do it right and legally. This could bite you badly if you don’t get legal advice.
You should take the money and put it in a safe deposit box your brother can’t access, then you should lawyer up.
Most banks prohibit putting cash in safe deposit boxes actually. The bank also has no idea what is in there, so if you take it out, your brother likely has little or no recourse.
If it was genuinely to be set aside for Dad, I would move the money and put it in a bank. I’ve had to deal with something similar many years ago. This stuff is a pain in the butt. Just deposit the money in an account for your dad. You’ll have to give the bank a statement on where the money is from. Just submit it. No one cares. There are still a lot of old people who do this crap. DO NOT try to divide it up to less than $10k per deposit that is actually illegal. Just deposit it all in one go and get it over with.
Get a lawyer and get a power of attorney over your dad’s affairs and be ready for your relationship with your brother to be over. People do CRAZY stuff in situations like this.
The safest thing to do would be to put it into a savings account under your father’s name at that same bank ideally because honestly, it’s not even a good idea to keep large amounts of cash in the safety deposit box. Seen plenty of horror stories about stuff going missing and it not being covered by insurance. If you have any sort of power of attorney since he has dementia, I would highly consider even speaking to some type of elder law attorney. It would be great if you could consult the same attorney that has handled any of their estate planning like a will.
Move it right now into another safe-deposit box. Make the decision about a HYSA or whatever later after you deal with your brother’s melt-down over not getting his hands on all that lovely lolly.
Move it NOW.
I don’t have advice, I just wanted to thank you for calling it a safe deposit box instead of a “safety” deposit box.
Who has LEGAL responsibility for dads affairs that is what matters here
You can’t steal dads money to protect it
In most cases that I know of, keeping cash on a safety deposit box is not allowed by the bank. They have no way of knowing you’re doing it, but it won’t be insured. Just a heads up!
I mean does he have a will or power of attorney showing you have joint ownership?