LIVE: ABC News Live – Thursday, April 25 | ABC News

    tonight new indictments in the so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    presidential election the Trump allies
    involved the former president named as
    an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
    day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
    our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
    claim and the
    impact the airline industry now
    responding to new rules from the Biden
    Administration that would force the
    airlines to pay you back in cash if you
    face bad delays or cancellations
    what could come
    next New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011 days
    their message this morning the American
    Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
    than a decade in prison for what was
    found in his carry-on plus a life-saving
    transplant like no other the
    groundbreaking procedure that saved a
    dying grandmother and she’s only in the
    third grade
    [Music]
    but she and her violin are taking the
    World by
    storm from ABC news in New York this is
    America this morning good Thursday
    morning everyone I’m Maran and Aly and
    I’m Andrew dibert we begin with new
    unrest overnight at college campuses
    Across the Nation yeah crowds protesting
    the Israel Hamas war clashed with police
    in Texas and California at least 93
    people have been arrested at USC and
    dozens more have been arrested at the
    University of Texas and today a major
    deadline at another campus where these
    protests first escalated last
    week more Chaos on college campuses
    across the
    country at the University of Texas at
    Austin Police clashing with Pro
    Palestinian
    protesters dozens arrested as officers
    used horses to disperse students some
    nearly crashing into our reporter on the
    scene no what are you doing what are you
    doing at the University of Southern
    California tense moments as police
    confronted protesters after tearing down
    tents officers in riot gear marching
    onto campus surrounding and arresting
    protesters who refuse to
    leave protests also cropping up at Brown
    and Harvard where students protesting
    the war in Gaza are demanding the
    university divest from
    [Applause]
    Israel at Colombia where this wave of
    Israel Hamas War protests began last
    week the clock is ticking down to
    tonight’s deadline to end the protests
    on campus myself my peers my colleagues
    my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
    not going to rest we will stand here
    until the University divests from
    Israeli aparti and their genocidal
    campaign in Gaza protests have been
    marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
    violence driven in some cases officials
    say by outside non-student agitators one
    officer was assaulted with a water jug
    at cow humbold in Northern California
    that school now closed through the
    weekend house Speaker Mike Johnson is
    threatening to pull Federal funding for
    schools that don’t create safe
    environments for Jewish students he
    visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
    allow this kind of hatred and an
    anti-Semitism to flourish on our
    campuses they have chased down Jewish
    students they have mocked them and
    reviled them they have shouted racial E
    epithets Johnson later speaking with our
    lindsy Davis but for people who are just
    saying we simply don’t like the way the
    Palestinians are being treated and
    killed that’s a different conversation
    have that conversation have a debate we
    believe in the free expression of ideas
    and the free Marketplace of ideas that
    is not what is happening here they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from exercising
    their freedom that’s the limit that’s
    the line Johnson also suggested the
    National Guard could be used if needed
    to break up the protests the White House
    said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
    free speech on college campuses is
    important the other big story this
    morning new indictments and a so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    election former president Trump is named
    as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
    win has the details on this m good
    morning ran and good morning Arizona is
    now the fourth state where allies of
    former president Trump have been charged
    with trying to keep him in
    power this morning seven attorneys or
    Aids affiliated with former president
    Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
    over alleged efforts to overturn the
    2020 election in that state they include
    Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
    Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
    National Committee senior Council for
    election Integrity the indictment makes
    references to those affiliated with
    Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
    attorney general says the names will be
    unredacted after each is served the
    indictment Arizona’s election was free
    and fair the people of Arizona elected
    President Biden unwilling to accept this
    fact the defendants charged by the state
    grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
    the lawful transfer of the presidency
    the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
    electors accused of submitting a
    document to Congress falsely declaring
    that Trump had won Arizona the charges
    include fraud forgery and conspiracy
    Trump is named as unindicted
    co-conspirator one in the case which
    claims Trump and his allies schemed to
    prevent the lawful transfer of the
    presidency the Trump campaign calls the
    indictment another example of Democrats
    weaponization of the legal system Trump
    was also named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
    Republicans are charged with illegally
    trying to replace electoral votes for
    Biden with electoral votes for Trump
    meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
    arguments over whether Trump can be
    prosecuted in his federal election
    interference case stemming from the
    January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
    absolute immunity over criminal
    prosecution for any official acts as
    president on the theory that just like
    with civil immunity presidents need to
    be able do to do their jobs without
    worrying about being sued presidents
    need to be able to do their jobs without
    worrying about being indicted and so
    he’s raised this primarily in the
    January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
    decision could have implications on some
    of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
    St
    is first of all the the various cases
    pending against Donald Trump in which
    he’s raised the question of criminal
    immunity that includes all three of
    those that have not gone to trial the
    January 6 case the maral Lago case and
    the Georgia case because for all of
    those for at least part of the time he
    was
    President while arguments are heard at
    the Supreme Court former president Trump
    will be in a New York courtroom for his
    hush money trial former National
    Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
    back on the stand Andrew M thank you
    house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
    repeal a near total ban on abortions
    after three Republicans crossed party
    lines to pass the bill it now heads to
    the state senate if the law which dates
    all the way back to 1864 is repealed
    Arizona will revert to a 15-week
    abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
    yesterday heard arguments on whether
    federal law can override State abortion
    bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
    justices appeared divided a ruling is
    expected in June now to your money in
    the airline industry responding to new
    rules from the Biden Administration that
    would force the airlines to pay you back
    in cash when you face bad delays or
    cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
    Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
    back against new rules that will soon
    require them to refund passengers for
    certain flights that are canceled or
    delayed the US transportation department
    announced the new policy yesterday that
    will require Airlines give automatic
    cash refunds within 7 days when a flight
    is canceled for any reason delayed by
    more than 3 hours for domestic travel
    and more than 6 hours for international
    travel or if the airline changes any of
    your airports adds connections or
    downgrades your seat I think for you
    know the average flyer um it’d be really
    good beneficial holding the uh airlines
    more accountable under current
    regulations the airlines decide how long
    a delay must last before triggering
    refunds Transportation secretary Pete
    Budaj says that era is over this isn’t
    just about enforcing when something goes
    wrong it’s making it less likely
    something would go wrong in the first
    place but the trade group representing
    the airlines argues customer
    satisfaction and air travel are at an
    all-time high and air fars are at an
    all-time low when adjusted for inflation
    they say refund complaints have fallen
    sharply since 2020 with $43 billion in
    refunds since then and they argue this
    new policy will add confusion for
    consumers reduction in choice and a
    decline in competition which
    historically drives up prices the Biden
    Administration argues otherwise this
    will build confidence in air travel at a
    time when Airlines need to do more to
    secure passengers trust and there are
    more ways to get a refund if your
    checked luggage isn’t delivered within
    12 hours for your domestic travel or
    your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
    Airlines have six months to comply with
    new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
    for that a milestone today in Baltimore
    a new shipping channel is opening where
    the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
    bridge used to be it will reopen the
    city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
    it handled before last month’s bridge
    collapse the next challenge is freeing
    the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
    cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
    your Thursday
    weather this is what’s left of a freight
    train that derailed about 200 mil west
    of Dallas Texas during a storm winds up
    to 60 M an hour blew the cars off the
    rails but no one was hurt more severe
    storms are expected across Texas and
    into the plains tonight through Friday
    and a second system this weekend could
    bring damaging winds hail and tornadoes
    from Texas to Chicago checking today’s
    high temperatures 50s in the Northeast
    and Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the
    South 94 in South Texas
    coming up a new fight to lower the price
    of a popular weight loss drug also ahead
    a life-saving transplant like no other
    the groundbreaking procedure that just
    saved a dying grandmother and later the
    8-year-old and her violin on the world
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    stage whenever news breaks we are here
    in Israel a nation at war after that
    brutal surprise attack by Hamas on the
    ground in Ukraine reporting from Leon
    Maine the scene of a horrific mass
    shooting ABC News live is right there
    everywhere from the scene of that deadly
    missile strike in Dena
    Ukraine reporting from the earthquake in
    Turkey en rolling Fort This Tornado tore
    through this little town from the most
    devastating disaster in Hawaii from
    Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
    campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
    traveling with the president in Mexico
    City wherever the story from the front
    lines from Southern Israel outside the
    Gaza Strip in Beirut from the FBI
    reporting from the nurses on the picket
    line here at 10 Downing Street in London
    streaming live to you wherever the story
    is wherever the story is wherever the
    story is we’re going to take you there
    you’re streaming ABC News live ABC News
    live you’re streaming ABC News live ABC
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    America’s number one streaming news it’s
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    serving up well how about everything you
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    good your health your money breaking
    news pop culture with the biggest Stars
    music Trends and of course good
    food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
    hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afternoon for everything you need to
    know I love that me Sunday night people
    think they really know you what do you
    think of the biggest misconception about
    you
    John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
    roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC right now there’s just so much
    happening in our world so much at stake
    at the start of every morning morning
    and that’s why at Good Morning America
    we’re right here and we got you we got
    you we got
    you
    who pretty intense scene there we’re
    back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
    Angeles uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
    during what became an aborted landing at
    LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
    the airport and touched down without
    incident a short time later it’s not
    clear what led to the hard Landing glad
    everyone’s okay the company that makes
    us o zic and wovi is facing a senate
    investigation over what critics describe
    as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
    Sanders says the popular drugs which are
    used to treat diabetes and obesity are
    unaffordable for millions of Americans
    but they are dramatically cheaper in
    other countries but drug makers say it’s
    easy to oversimplify the complexities
    involved in pricing doctors here in New
    York say a groundbreaking new surgery
    has saved the life of a Dying
    grandmother and now she’s speaking out
    just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
    was Gravely ill suffering from heart
    failure and kidney disease but today I
    got more energy I feel um energized I
    feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
    grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
    after her doctors performed a combined
    heart pump and pig kidney transplant
    surgery whenever you do that um when you
    combine things that are just on The
    Cutting Edge um you know of the future
    um you just don’t know how it’s going to
    turn out the combination surgery a first
    but Lisa is not the first person to
    receive the Revolutionary kidney
    transplant she’s the second just last
    month a 62-year-old man in Massachusetts
    with endstage kidney disease became the
    first person to receive a genetically
    edited Pig kidney and he’s now home
    recovering both patients now providing
    hope for the more than a 100,000 people
    in the US waiting on a transplant list
    no one will have to die waiting for
    someone else to to die so they can be
    saved I’m getting stronger and stronger
    every day um
    and it just feels the right thing that I
    did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
    organ rejection and they feel good about
    her long-term prognosis love to hear it
    yeah coming up the American Tourist in
    the Caribbean facing 12 years in prison
    for bullets found in his luggage also
    ahead New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011
    days Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture’s going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John bonjovi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    EC Whenever Wherever news breaks it’s so
    important to always remember that lives
    are changed here in London in Buffalo
    Uvaldi Texas edinb Scotland reporting
    from Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
    refugees here in Warson we’re heading to
    a small community outside of Mexico City
    getting you behind the stories as they
    happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
    you there stream ABC News live week
    nights wherever you stream your news
    only on ABC News live it’s lunchtime in
    America so what are we serving up well
    how about everything you need to know
    you know that sounds pretty
    good your health your money breaking
    news pop culture with the biggest Stars
    music Trends and of course good
    food GMA
    what you need to know a third hour of
    GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afternoon for everything you need to
    know I love
    me this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia next Wednesday night
    on
    ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
    nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
    security in Turks and Kos found four
    hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
    carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
    but he now faces up to 12 years in
    prison he’s required to stay in Turks
    and Kos until his next court hearing in
    junee stay strong that is the message
    from the parents of an American hostage
    held by Hamas seen on video for the
    first time since
    October this morning the world is now
    seeing HH Goldberg pollen alive more
    than 200 days after the American Israeli
    citizen was taken hostage during the
    October 7th attack
    Goldberg speaking in Hebrew hs’s hair is
    shaved and he’s missing part of his left
    arm the 24-year-old says I am the son of
    Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
    California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
    I love you very much I miss you very
    much I think of you every day that I’m
    here I need you to stay strong for me
    and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
    Hamas recorded the video which hersh’s
    parents gave ABC News permission to
    show HS was seen at the music festival
    in Israel that came under attack being
    pushed into this truck by Hamas
    terrorists his parents say HS was hiding
    in a
    shelter when militants threw grenades
    inside severely wounding his arm just
    days after their son was taken captive
    last fall her’s mother said this to
    David mure we are every person’s
    nightmare that’s who we
    are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
    a mother or has a mother can imagine
    what I’m going through and now a mix of
    both relief and and worry seeing a video
    of HS today is overwhelming we’re
    relieved to see him alive but we are
    also concerned about his health and
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    wellbeing the video of HS prompted
    protesters to take to the streets in
    Jerusalem last night demanding the
    government do more to bring home the
    hostages about 130 are still believed to
    be held by Hamas her if you can hear
    this we heard your voice today for the
    first time in 20 one days and if you can
    hear us we love you stay strong
    survive talks for a potential hostage
    deal between Israel and Hamas have
    stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
    the group will lay down its weapons if a
    two-state solution is implemented coming
    up the insects prompting calls to 911
    plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
    really out of this world we’ll show it
    to you
    with so much at stake so much on the
    line more Americans turn here than any
    other newscast ABC News World News
    Tonight with David mure America’s number
    one most watched newscast across all of
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    [Music]
    Television come give it all to
    me give it to me
    Sunday night people think they really
    know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon JY I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John Bon Joi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on DC
    Babe Ruth Hank Aron showy Otani Legends
    of the game but now the list of greats
    redefined from ABC News reclaim the
    Forgotten League a side of the story of
    baseball you have never heard before
    like this the award-winning podcast is
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    every Friday the hottest Trends Styles
    and must tab it’s time to buy the right
    stuff and save big time to the right
    stuff Fridays on
    you’re going to love it why do so many
    people start their day here from ABC
    News this is start here to be in the
    know and get a different take on the
    day’s top stories a lot of news today so
    let’s get into it listen now to the
    Daily News podcast honored with four
    Edward R mural Awards and see why the
    New York Times calls it a news podcast
    worth listening to start here ABC News
    make it your daily first listen now
    that’s a part of the story I bet you
    didn’t see coming wherever you get your
    podcasts start here reporting from the
    protests at Columbia University I’m
    Stephanie Ros wherever the story is
    we’ll take you there you’re streaming
    ABC News
    [Music]
    live time to check the pulse and we
    begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
    fact police in some parts of the
    Southeastern us say they are now getting
    tons of calls about
    this it is loud it is male cicada trying
    to attract a mate police urge please do
    not call them to complain next some
    football dreams are about to come true
    the NFL draft is tonight in Detroit with
    the number one pick the Bears are
    expected to choose Caleb Williams the
    quarterback who won the highman at USC
    Jaden Daniels the quarterback at LSU
    also won the Heisman he’s expected to be
    chosen second by the commanders he spoke
    to our will
    Reed do you have in your mind and your
    heart a team that you definitely want to
    go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
    going to disclose that but kind of do we
    I’ll see what happens how it plays out
    we will see tonight more from Daniels on
    Good Morning America as well and watch
    the draft right here on ABC next a viin
    prodigy only 8 years old yes she’s eight
    and she’s already played Carnegie
    [Music]
    Hall that is Ria King she’s from New
    Jersey she just won a prestigious
    competition in
    Europe I love violin because I can touch
    people’s hearts with the um beauty of
    music I really want to become a great
    violinist well she’s well on her way she
    touched our hearts finally a truly
    highflying stunt this is skateboarder
    Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
    on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
    Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
    air balloon he finished his trick by
    free falling back onto his board with a
    parachute top headlines
    next it’s lunchtime in America so what
    are we serving up well how about
    everything you need to know you know
    that sounds pretty good it to your
    health your money breaking news pop
    culture with the biggest Stars music
    Trends and of course good
    food gma3 what you need to know a hour
    of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afternoon for everything you need to
    know I love that why do so many people
    start their day here from ABC News this
    is start here to be in the know and get
    a different take on the day’s top
    stories a lot of news today so let’s get
    into it listen now to the Daily News
    podcast honored with four Edward R murl
    Awards and see why the New York Times
    calls it a news podcast worth listening
    to start here ABC News make it get your
    daily first listen now that’s a part of
    the story I bet you didn’t see coming
    wherever you get your podcasts start
    here wherever news breaks it’s so
    important to always remember that lives
    are changed getting you behind the
    stories as they happen ABC News live
    Prime we’ll take you there streaming
    free on ABC News live with so much at
    stake so much on the line more Americans
    turn here than any other newscast ABC
    News World News Tonight with David mure
    America’s number one most watched
    newscast across all of
    Television it’s Sunday night people
    think they really know you what do you
    think of the biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special we’ll start singing by the
    way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John Von
    I’m a rock and roll star I’m not a saint
    I’m John bonjovi halfway there Sunday
    night on
    ABC checking more top stories tensions
    are rising at campuses all across the
    country nearly a 100 protesters rallying
    against the war in Gaza were arrested at
    USC last night and dozens of pro
    Palestinian demonstrators were arrested
    at the University of Texas overseas
    Israeli forces launched new attacks in
    southern Lebanon saying they hit about
    40 Terror targets an Israeli official
    claims half of the Hezbollah commanders
    there have now been killed Rudy Giuliani
    and former white house chief of staff
    Mark Meadows appeared to have been
    indicted in a fake elector scheme in
    Arizona along with other Trump allies
    Trump himself was named as an unindicted
    co-conspirator the federal government is
    now requesting bird flu testing for
    dairy cattle the move affects cows being
    transported between states it comes
    after inactive traces of the virus were
    found in some milk samples today’s
    weather rain and snow from the Northwest
    to the Rockies severe storms in Texas
    and the plains rain across the nation’s
    midsection finally a good deed is
    sparking an unlikely friendship Danny
    new
    explains and right after he shoots a
    T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
    busis first met young Kelvin here he was
    a little startled opening my eyes and I
    see a kid that’s about my height it was
    this past Good Friday as you can see on
    this security footage from a coffee shop
    in bat Rouge Matt decided to go outside
    while he was waiting for his Joe and
    pray for a little bit but that’s when
    Kelvin who was waiting with his dad at
    the Eye Care office next door noticed
    Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
    are you homeless cuz if you are here’s a
    dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
    him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
    still help him get something Matt was
    touched and instead offered to buy
    Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
    with it I’m not buz but what Kelvin did
    not know is that Matt is the former star
    of the A&E show country bucks and has
    become a very successful businessman in
    the hunting industry our station in
    Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
    first reunion recently where Kelvin
    learned this news on camera you’re on
    Google like you’re that famous I’m on
    Google I would say I’m not that famous
    though you can lend me a couple bucks
    right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
    do a whole lot more than that at his
    store you saw Kelvin getting tot hun in
    earlier Matt told Kelvin he could run
    around for 40 seconds go and grab as
    much merch as he wanted did you really
    pick out this bike yes including this
    $2,000 bike but Matt didn’t mind because
    I guess you can’t really put a price on
    inspiration this generation that’s
    coming up could if they’re more like
    Kelvin they can change the world I give
    you a dollar you give me a $2,000 bike
    clearly Kelvin is also going to be a
    great businessman one day guys we could
    take some tips that’s we can that’s
    what’s making news in America this
    morning by the way tonight’s draft 87
    Central right here on
    [Music]
    ABC right now in America this morning
    Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
    with police on more college campuses
    from California to Texas dozens of
    arrests a top lawmaker threatening to
    bring in the National Guard and now a
    major deadline set for
    tonight new indictments in the so-called
    fake elector steam after the 2020
    presidential election the Trump allies
    involved the former president named as
    an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
    day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
    our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
    claim and the
    impact the airline industry now
    responding to new rules from the Biden
    Administration that would force the
    airlines to pay you back in cash if you
    face bad delays or cancellations what
    could come
    next New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011 days
    their message this morning the American
    Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
    than a decade in prison for what was
    found in his carry-on plus a life saving
    transplant like no other the
    groundbreaking procedure that saved a
    dying grandmother hey and she’s only in
    the third
    grade but she and her violin are taking
    the World by
    storm from ABC news in New York this is
    America this morning good Thursday
    morning everyone I’m ran and Aly and I’m
    Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
    overnight at college campuses Across the
    Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
    Hamas war clashed with police in Texas
    and California at least 93 people have
    been arrested at USC and dozens more
    have been arrested at the University of
    Texas and today a major deadline at
    another campus where these protests
    first escalated last
    week more Chaos on college campuses
    across the
    country at the University of Texas at
    Austin Police clashing with Pro
    Palestinian
    protesters dozens arrested as officers
    used horses to disperse students some
    nearly crashing into our reporter on the
    scene no what are you doing what are you
    doing at the University of Southern
    California tense moments as police
    confronted protesters after tearing down
    tents officers in riot gear marching
    onto campus surrounding and arresting
    protesters who refuse to
    leave protests also cropping up at Brown
    and Harvard where students protesting
    the war in Gaza are demanding the
    university divest from Israel will not
    will not
    at Colombia where this wave of Israel
    Hamas War protests began last week the
    clock is ticking down to tonight’s
    deadline to end the protest on campus
    myself my peers my colleagues my friends
    we’re not going to stop we’re not going
    to rest we will stand here until the
    University divests from Israeli
    apartheid and their genocidal campaign
    in Gaza protests have been marred by
    anti-semitic hate speech and violence
    driven in some cases officials say by
    outside non-student agitators one
    officer was assaulted with a water jug
    at cow poly humbold in Northern
    California that school now closed
    through the weekend house Speaker Mike
    Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
    funding for schools that don’t create
    safe environments for Jewish students he
    visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
    allow this kind of hatred and an
    anti-Semitism to flourish on our
    campuses they have chased down Jewish
    students they have mocked them and
    reviled them they have shouted racial EP
    epithets Johnson later speaking with our
    lindsy Davis but for people who are just
    saying we simply don’t like the way
    Palestinians are being treated and
    killed that’s a different conversation
    have that conversation have a debate we
    believe in the free expression of ideas
    and the free Marketplace of ideas that
    is not what is happening here they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from exercising
    their freedom that’s the limit that’s
    the line Johnson also suggested the
    National Guard could be used if needed
    to break up the protests the White House
    said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
    free speech on college campuses is
    important the other big story this
    morning new indictments and a so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    election former president Trump is named
    as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
    win has the details on this m good
    morning ran and good morning Arizona is
    now the fourth state where allies of
    former president Trump have been charged
    with trying to keep him in
    power this morning seven attorneys or
    Aids affiliated with former president
    Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
    over alleged efforts to overturn the
    2020 election in that state they include
    Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
    Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
    National Committee senior Council for
    election Integrity the indictment makes
    references to those affiliated with
    Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
    attorney general says the names will be
    unredacted after each is served the
    indictment Arizona’s election was free
    and fair the people of Arizona elected
    President Biden unwilling to accept this
    fact the defendants charged by the state
    grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
    the lawful transfer of the presidency
    the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
    electors accused of submitting a
    document to Congress falsely declaring
    that Trump had won Arizona the charges
    include fraud forgery and conspiracy
    Trump is named as unindicted
    co-conspirator one in the case which
    claims Trump and his allies schemed to
    prevent the lawful transfer of the
    presidency the Trump campaign calls the
    indictments another example of Democrats
    weaponization of the legal system Trump
    was also named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
    Republicans are charged with illegally
    trying to replace electoral votes for
    Biden with electoral votes for Trump
    meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
    arguments over whether Trump can be
    prosecuted in his Federal election
    interference case stemming from the
    January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
    absolute immunity over criminal
    prosecution for any official acts as
    president on the theory that just like
    with civil immunity presidents need to
    be able do to do their jobs without
    worrying about being sued presidents
    need to be able to do their jobs without
    worrying about being indicted and so
    he’s raised this primarily in the
    January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
    decision could have implications on some
    of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
    stake is first of all the the various
    cases pending against Donald Trump in
    which he’s raised the question of
    criminal immunity that includes all
    three of those that have not gone to
    trial the January 6 case the maralago
    case and the Georgia case because for
    all of those for at least part of the
    time he was
    President well arguments are heard at
    the Supreme Court former president Trump
    will be in a New York courtroom for his
    hush money trial former National
    Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
    back on the stand Andrew M thank you
    house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
    repal a near total ban on abortions
    after three Republicans crossed party
    lines to pass the bill it now heads to
    the state senate if the law which dates
    all the way back to 1864 is repealed
    Arizona will revert to a 15-week
    abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
    yesterday heard arguments on whether
    federal law can override State abortion
    bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
    justices appear divided a ruling is
    expected in June now to your money in
    the airline industry responding to new
    rules from the Biden Administration that
    would force the airlines to pay you back
    in cash when you face bad delays or
    cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
    Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
    back against new rules that will soon
    require them to refund passengers for
    certain flights that are canceled or
    delayed the US transportation department
    announced the new policy yesterday that
    will require Airlines give automatic
    cash refunds within seven days when a
    flight is canceled for any reason
    delayed by more than three hours for
    domestic travel and more than 6 hours
    for international travel or if the
    airline changes any of your airports
    adds connections or downgrades your seat
    I think for you know the average flyer
    um it’d be really good beneficial
    holding the uh airlines more accountable
    under current regulations the airlines
    decide how long a delay must last before
    triggering refunds Transportation
    secretary Pete Budaj says that era is
    over this isn’t just about enforcing
    when something goes wrong it’s making it
    less likely something would go wrong in
    the first place but the trade group
    representing the airlines argues
    customer satisfaction and air travel are
    at an all-time high and air fairs are at
    an all-time low when adjusted for
    inflation they say refund complaints
    have fallen sharply since 2020 with $43
    billion in refunds since then and they
    argue this new policy will add confusion
    for consumers reduction in choice and a
    decline in competition which
    historically drives up prices the Biden
    Administration argues otherwise this
    will build confidence in air travel at a
    time when Airlines need to do more to
    secure passengers trust and there are
    more ways to get a refund if your
    checked luggage isn’t delivered within
    12 hours for your domestic travel or
    your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
    Airlines have 6 months to comply with
    new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
    for that a milestone today in Baltimore
    a new shipping channel is opening where
    the wage of the Francis Scott Key bridge
    used to be it will reopen the city’s
    port to 80% of the vessel traffic it
    handled before last month’s bridge
    collapse the next challenge is freeing
    the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
    cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
    your Thursday weather
    this is what’s left of a freight train
    that derailed about 200 Mi west of
    Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
    60 Mi an hour blew the cars off the
    rails but no one was hurt more severe
    storms are expected across Texas and
    into the plains tonight through Friday
    and a second system this weekend could
    bring damaging winds hail and tornadoes
    from Texas to Chicago checking today’s
    high temperatures 50s in the Northeast
    and Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the
    South 94 in South
    Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
    price of a popular weight loss drug also
    ahead a life-saving transplant like no
    other the groundbreaking procedure that
    just saved a dying grandmother and later
    the 8-year-old and her violin on the
    world
    [Music]
    stage we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning begin of
    her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around promise
    to God until years later when the real
    killer steps into the box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    D will match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC this
    is not about parents who just let their
    kid watch violent movies play violent
    video games this is about parents who
    neglected their son ignored his cries
    for help then bought him a gun the first
    parents in America to be charged in a
    school shooting they purchased that gun
    for him and bragged about it you don’t
    get to walk away from that that’s a
    criminal act sins of the parents the
    crumbly trials the opposite of love is
    not hate it’s just being ignored only on
    Hulu Whenever Wherever news breaks it’s
    so important to always always remember
    that lives are changed here in London in
    Buffalo yaldi Texas edin BR Scotland
    reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
    Ukrainian refugees here in waron we’re
    heading to a small community outside of
    Mexico City getting you behind the
    stories as they happen ABC News live
    Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
    News live week nights wherever you
    stream your news only on ABC News live
    why do so many people start their day
    here from ABC News this is start here to
    be in the know and get a different take
    on the day’s top stories a lot of news
    today so let’s get into it listen now to
    the Daily News podcast honored with four
    Edward R murl Awards and see why the New
    York Times calls it a news podcast worth
    listening to start here ABC News make it
    your daily first listen now that’s a
    part of the story I bet you didn’t see
    coming wherever you get your podcasts
    start here I’m Whit Johnson reporting
    from Maui wherever the story is we’ll
    take you there you’re streaming ABC News
    live pretty intense scene there we’re
    back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
    angelist uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
    during what became an aborted landing at
    LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
    the airport and touched down without
    incident a short time later it’s not
    clear what led to the hard Landing glad
    everyone ‘s okay the company that makes
    OIC and wovi is facing a senate
    investigation over what critics describe
    as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
    Sanders says the popular drugs which are
    used to treat diabetes and obesity are
    unaffordable for millions of Americans
    but they are dramatically cheaper in
    other countries but drug makers say it’s
    easy to oversimplify the complexities
    involved in pricing doctors here in New
    York say a groundbreaking new surgery
    has saved the life of a Dying
    grandmother and now she’s speaking out
    just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
    was Gravely ill suffering from heart
    failure and kidney disease but today I
    got more energy I feel um energized I
    feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
    grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
    after her doctors performed a combined
    heart pump and pig kidney transplant
    surgery whenever you do that um when you
    combine things that are just on The
    Cutting Edge
    um you know of the future um you just
    don’t know how it’s going to turn out
    the combination surgery a first but Lisa
    is not the first person to receive the
    Revolutionary kidney transplant she’s
    the second just last month a 62-year-old
    man in Massachusetts with endstage
    kidney disease became the first person
    to receive a genetically edited Pig
    kidney and he’s now home recovering both
    patients now providing hope for the more
    than a 100,000 people in the US waiting
    on a transplant list no one will have to
    die waiting for someone else to die so
    they can be saved I’m getting stronger
    and stronger every day um
    and it just feels the right thing that I
    did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
    organ rejection and they feel good about
    her long-term prognosis love to hear it
    yeah coming up the American Tourist in
    the Caribbean facing 12 years in prison
    for bullets found in his luggage also
    ahead New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a Young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011
    days with so much at stake so much on
    the line more Americans turn here than
    any other newscast ABC News World News
    Tonight with David mure America’s number
    one most watched newscast across all of
    television
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    I love it give it
    to come it all
    me it
    to Sunday night people think they really
    know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture’s going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you I
    Michael Strahan John bonji I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC Babe Ruth Hank Aron showy Otani
    Legends of the game but now the list of
    greats redefined from ABC News reclaimed
    the Forgotten League a side of the story
    of baseball you have never heard before
    like this the award-winning podcast is
    back listen wherever you get your
    podcast or scan the QR code you see here
    every Friday the hottest Trends Styles
    and must have it’s time to buy the right
    stuff and save big time too the right
    Stu Fridays on GMA you’re going to love
    it whenever wherever news breaks it’s so
    important to always remember that lives
    are changed here in London in Buffalo
    yaldi Texas Edinburgh Scotland reporting
    from Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
    refugees here in warong we’re heading to
    a small community outside of Mexico City
    getting you behind the stories as they
    happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
    you there stream ABC News live week
    nights wherever you stream your news
    only on ABC News
    live we’re back with a Caribbean
    vacation nightmare for an Oklahoma
    father airport security in Turks and
    quos found four hunting bullets in Ryan
    Watson’s carry-on bag he says it was a
    mistake but he now faces up to 12 years
    in prison he’s required to stay in Turks
    and Kos until his next court hearing in
    June stay strong that is the message
    from the parents of an American hostage
    held by Hamas seen on video for the
    first time since
    October this morning the world is now
    seeing HH Goldberg pollen alive more
    than 200 days after the American Israeli
    citizen was taken hostage during the
    October 7th attack
    goldber speaking in Hebrew hersh’s hair
    is shaved and he’s missing part of his
    left arm the 24-year-old says I am the
    son of Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
    California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
    I love you very much I miss you very
    much I think of you every day that I’m
    here I need you to stay strong for me
    and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
    Hamas recorded the video which hh’s
    parents gave ABC News permission to
    show H was seen at the music festival in
    Israel that came under attack being
    pushed into this truck by Hamas teror
    his parents say hirsh was hiding in a
    shelter when militants threw grenades
    inside severely wounding his arm just
    days after their son was taken captive
    last fall hs’s mother said this to David
    mure we are every person’s
    nightmare that’s who we
    are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
    a mother or has a mother can imagine
    what I’m going through and now a a mix
    of both relief and worry seeing a video
    of HS today is overwhelming we’re
    relieved to see him alive but we are
    also concerned about his health and
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    wellbeing the video of HS prompted
    protesters to take to the streets in
    Jerusalem last night demanding the
    government do more to bring home the
    hostages about 130 are still believed to
    be held by Hamas pers if you can hear
    this we heard your voice today for the
    the first time in 201 days and if you
    can hear us we love you stay strong
    survive talks for a potential hostage
    deal between Israel and Hamas have
    stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
    the group will lay down its weapons if a
    two-state solution is implemented coming
    up the insects prompting calls to 911
    plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
    really out of this world we’ll show it
    to you
    it’s lunchtime in America so what are we
    serving up well how about everything you
    need to know you know that sounds pretty
    good your health your money breaking
    news pop culture with the biggest Stars
    music Trends and of course good
    food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
    hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afternoon for everything you need to to
    know I love
    that why do so many people start their
    day here from ABC News this is start
    here to be in the know and get a
    different take on the day’s top stories
    a lot of news today so let’s get into it
    listen now to the Daily News podcast
    honored with four Edward R murl Awards
    and see why the New York Times calls it
    a news podcast worth listening to start
    here ABC News make it your daily first
    listen now that’s a part of the story I
    bet you didn’t see coming wherever you
    get your podcasts start here whenever
    wherever news breaks it’s so important
    to always remember that lives are
    changed here in London in Buffalo Uvaldi
    Texas Edinburgh Scotland reporting from
    Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
    refugees here in Warson we’re heading to
    a small community outside of Mexico City
    getting you behind the stories as they
    happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
    you there stre stream ABC News live week
    nights wherever you stream your news
    only on ABC News live this is not about
    parents who just let their kid watch
    violent movies play violent video games
    this is about parents who neglected
    their son ignored his cries for help
    then bought him a gun the first parents
    in America to be charged in a school
    shooting they purchased that gun for him
    and bragged about it you don’t get to
    walk away from that that’s a criminal
    act sins of the parents the crumbly
    trials the opposite of love is not hate
    it’s just just being ignored only on
    Hulu reporting from Leon Maine I’m
    lindsy Davis wherever the story is we’ll
    take you there you’re streaming ABC News
    [Music]
    live time to check the pulse and we
    begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
    fact police in some parts of the
    Southeastern us say they are now getting
    tons of calls about this
    it is loud it is M cicas trying to
    attract a mate police urge please do not
    call them to complain next some football
    dreams are about to come true the NFL
    draft is tonight in Detroit with the
    number one pick the Bears are expected
    to choose Caleb Williams the quarterback
    who won the Heisman at USC Jaden Daniels
    the quarterback at LSU also won the
    Heisman he’s expected to be chosen
    second by the commanders he spoke to our
    will
    Reed do you have in your mind in Your
    Heart A team that you definitely want to
    go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
    going to disclose that but kind of do we
    all see what happens how it plays out we
    will see tonight more from Daniels on
    Good Morning America as well and watch
    the draft right here on ABC next a
    violin Prodigy only 8 years old yes
    she’s eight and she’s already played
    Carnegie Hall
    [Music]
    that is Ria Kang she is from New Jersey
    she just won a prestigious competition
    in
    Europe I love violin because I can touch
    people’s hearts with the um beauty of
    music I really want to become a great
    violinist well she’s well on her way she
    touched our hearts finally a truly
    highflying stunt this is skateboarder
    Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
    on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
    Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
    air balloon he finished his trick by
    free falling back onto his board with a
    parachute top headlines
    next we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your D will
    match that Al scene
    we have your DNA at the scene what did
    you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    [Music]
    ABC
    come give it to me why do so many people
    start their day here from ABC News this
    is start here to be in the know and get
    a different take on the day’s top
    stories a lot of news today so let’s get
    into it listen now to the Daily News
    podcast honored with four Edward R murl
    Awards and see why the New York Times
    calls it a news podcast worth listening
    to start here ABC News make it your
    daily first listen now that’s a part of
    the story I bet you didn’t see coming
    wherever you get your podcasts start
    here wherever news breaks it’s so
    important to always remember that lives
    are changed
    getting you behind the stories as they
    happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
    you there streaming free on ABC News
    live is that you Prett good that’s me
    and my big booty how much do you make on
    only fans versus say an episode on
    Sopranos oh way more on only fans
    celebrities can absolutely make a living
    on only fans Bella is the model he made
    it over 20 million do you consider what
    you do pornography or sex work only fans
    Not Just sex if I had it to do all over
    again I would have done it
    sooner only on
    Hulu checking more top stories tensions
    are rising at campuses all across the
    country nearly a hundred protesters
    rallying against the war in Gaza were
    arrested at USC last night and dozens of
    pro Palestinian demonstrators were
    arrested at the University of Texas
    overseas Israeli forces launched new
    attacks in in southern Lebanon saying
    they hit about 40 Terror targets an
    Israeli official claims half of the
    Hezbollah commanders there have now been
    killed Rudy Giuliani and former white
    house chief of staff Mark Meadows
    appeared to have been indicted in a fake
    elector scheme in Arizona along with
    other Trump allies Trump himself was
    named as an unindicted co-conspirator
    the federal government is now requesting
    bird flu testing for Dary cattle the
    move affects cows being transported
    between states it comes after inactive
    traces of the virus were found in some
    milk samples today’s weather rain and
    snow from the Northwest to the Rockies
    severe storms in Texas and the plains
    rain across the nation’s midsection
    finally a good deed is sparking an
    unlikely friendship Danny new
    explains and right after he shoots a
    T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
    busis first met young Kelvin here he was
    a little startled open in my eyes and I
    see a kid that’s about my height it was
    this past Good Friday as you can see on
    the security footage from a coffee shop
    in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
    outside while he was waiting for his Joe
    and pray for a little bit but that’s
    when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
    at the Eye Care office next door noticed
    Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
    are you homeless cuz if you are here’s a
    dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
    him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
    still help him get something Matt was
    touched and instead offered to buy
    Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
    with it I’m not buz but what Kelvin did
    not know was that Matt is the former
    star of the A&E show country bucks and
    has become a very successful businessman
    in the hunting industry our station in
    Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
    first reunion recently where Kelvin
    learned this news on camera you’re on
    Google like you’re that famous I’m on
    Google I would say I’m not that famous
    though you can lend me a couple books
    right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
    do a whole lot more than that at his
    store you saw Kelvin getting to
    virtually hun in earlier Matt told
    Kelvin he could run around for 40
    seconds go and grab as much merch as he
    wanted did you really pick out this bike
    yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
    didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
    really put a price on inspiration this
    generation that’s coming up could if
    they’re more like Kelvin they can change
    the world I give you a dollar you give
    me a $2,000 bike clearly Kelvin is also
    going to be a great business man one day
    guys we could take some tips as we can
    that’s what’s making news in America
    this morning by the way tonight’s draft
    87 Central right here on
    [Music]
    ABC right now in America this morning
    Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
    with police on more college campuses
    from California to Texas dozens of
    arrests a top lawmaker threat
    threatening to bring in the National
    Guard and now a major deadline set for
    tonight new indictments in the so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    presidential election the Trump allies
    involved the former president named as
    an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
    day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
    our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
    claim and the
    impact the airline industry now
    responding to new rules from the Biden
    Administration that would force the
    airlines to pay you back in cash if you
    face bad delays or cancellations what
    could come
    next New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 21 days
    their message this morning the American
    Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
    than a decade in prison for what was
    found in his carryon plus a life-saving
    transplant like no other the
    groundbreaking procedure at saved a
    dying grandmother and she’s only in the
    third
    grade but she and her violin are taking
    the World by
    storm from ABC news in New York this is
    America this morning good Thursday
    morning everyone I’m ran and Al and I’m
    Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
    overnight at college campuses Across the
    Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
    Hamas War clashed with police in Texas
    and California at least 93 people have
    been arrested at USC and dozens more
    have been arrested at the University of
    Texas and today a major deadline at
    another campus where these protests
    first escalated last
    week more Chaos on college campuses
    across the
    country at the University of Texas at
    Austin Police clashing with Pro
    Palestinian
    protesters dozens arrested as officers
    used horses to disperse students some
    nearly crashing into our reporter on the
    scene no what are you doing what are you
    doing at the University of Southern
    California tense moments as police
    confronted protesters after tearing down
    tents officers in riot gear marching
    onto campus surrounding and arresting
    protesters who refuse to
    leave protests also cropping up at Brown
    and Harver where students protesting the
    war in Gaza are demanding the university
    divest from Israel
    not at Colombia where this wave of
    Israel Hamas War protests began last
    week the clock is ticking down to
    tonight’s deadline to end the protests
    on campus myself my peers my colleagues
    my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
    not going to rest we will stand here
    until the University divests from
    Israeli apartheid and their genocidal
    campaign in Gaza protests have been
    marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
    violence driven in some cases officials
    say by outside non student agitators one
    officer was assaulted with a water jug
    at cow poly humbold in Northern
    California that school now closed
    through the weekend house Speaker Mike
    Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
    funding for schools that don’t create
    safe environments for Jewish students he
    visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
    allow this kind of hatred and an
    anti-Semitism to flourish on our
    campuses they have chased down Jewish
    students they have mocked them and
    reviled them they have shouted racial E
    epithets Johnson later speaking with our
    lindsy Davis but for people who are just
    saying we simply don’t like the way the
    Palestinians are being treated and
    killed that’s a different conversation
    have that conversation have a debate we
    believe in the free expression of ideas
    and the free Marketplace of ideas that
    is not what is happening here they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from exercising
    their freedom that’s the limit that’s
    the line Johnson also suggested the
    National Guard could be used if needed
    to break up the protests the White House
    said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
    free speech on college campuses is
    important the other big story this
    morning new indictments and a so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    election former president Trump is named
    as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
    win has the details on this m good
    morning Ranna and good morning Arizona
    is now the fourth state where allies of
    former president Trump have been charged
    with trying to keep him in
    power this morning seven attorneys or
    Aids affiliated with former president
    Trump Trump appear to be indicted in
    Arizona over alleged efforts to overturn
    the 2020 election in that state they
    include Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows
    Attorney John Eastman and Christina Bob
    the Republican National Committee senior
    Council for election Integrity the
    indictment makes references to those
    affiliated with Trump but does not name
    them Arizona’s attorney general says the
    names will be unredacted after each is
    served the indictment Arizona’s election
    was free and fair the people of Arizona
    elected President Biden unwilling to
    accept this fact the defendants charged
    by the state grand jury allegedly
    schemed to prevent the lawful transfer
    of the presidency the indictment does
    name 11 alleged fake electors accused of
    submitting a document to Congress
    falsely declaring that Trump had won
    Arizona the charges include fraud
    forgery and conspiracy Trump is named as
    unindicted co-conspirator one in the
    case which claims Trump and his allies
    schemed to prevent the lawful transfer
    of the presidency the Trump campaign
    calls the indictment another example of
    Democrats weaponization of the legal
    system Trump was also named an
    unindicted co-conspirator in Michigan
    where 16 Republicans are charged with
    illegally trying to replace electoral
    votes for Biden with electoral votes for
    Trump meanwhile today the Supreme Court
    hears arguments over whether Trump can
    be prosecuted in his federal election
    interference case stemming from the
    January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
    absolute immunity over criminal
    prosecution for any official acts as
    president on the theory that just like
    with civil immunity presidents need to
    be able to to do their jobs without
    worrying about being sued presidents
    need to be able to do their jobs without
    worrying about being indicted and so
    he’s raised this primarily in the
    January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
    decision could have implications on some
    of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
    stake is first of all the the various
    cases pending against Donald Trump in
    which he’s raised the question of
    criminal immunity that includes all
    three of those that have not gone to
    trial the January 6 case the maralago
    case and the Georgia case because for
    all of those for at least part of the
    time he was
    President while arguments are heard at
    the Supreme Court former president Trump
    will be in a New York Court room for his
    hush money trial former National inquir
    publisher David pecker will be back on
    the stand Andrew M thank you house
    lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
    repeal a near total ban on abortions
    after three Republicans crossed party
    lines to pass the bill it now heads to
    the state senate if the law which dates
    all the way back to 1864 is repealed
    Arizona will revert to a 15-week
    abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
    yesterday heard arguments on whether
    federal law can override State abortion
    Bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
    justices appeared divided a ruling is
    expected in June now to your money in
    the airline industry responding to new
    rules from the Biden Administration that
    would force the airlines to pay you back
    in cash when you face bad delays or
    cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
    Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
    back against new rules that will soon
    require them to refund passengers for
    certain flights that are canceled or
    delayed the US transportation department
    Department announced the new policy
    yesterday that will require Airlines
    give automatic cash refunds within 7
    days when a flight is canceled for any
    reason delayed by more than 3 hours for
    domestic travel and more than 6 hours
    for international travel or if the
    airline changes any of your airports
    adds connections or downgrades your seat
    I think for you know the average flyer
    um it’ be really good beneficial holding
    the uh airlines more accountable under
    current regulations the lines decide how
    long a delay must last before triggering
    refunds Transportation secretary Pete
    Budaj says that era is over this isn’t
    just about enforcing when something goes
    wrong it’s making it less likely
    something would go wrong in the first
    place but the trade group representing
    the airlines argues customer
    satisfaction and air travel are at an
    all-time high and air fairs are at an
    all-time low when adjusted for inflation
    they say refund complaints have fallen
    sharply since 2020 with $43 billion in
    refund fund since then and they argue
    this new policy will add confusion for
    consumers reduction in choice and a
    decline in competition which
    historically drives up prices the Biden
    Administration argues otherwise this
    will build confidence in air travel at a
    time when Airlines need to do more to
    secure passengers trust and there are
    more ways to get a refund if your
    checked luggage isn’t delivered within
    12 hours for your domestic travel or
    your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
    lines have six months to comply with new
    rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you for
    that a milestone today in Baltimore a
    new shipping channel is opening where
    the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
    bridge used to be it will reopen the
    city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
    it handled before last month’s bridge
    collapse the next challenge is freeing
    the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
    cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
    your Thursday weather
    this is what’s left of a freight train
    that derailed about 200 miles west of
    Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
    60 M an hour blew the cars off the rails
    but no one was hurt more severe storms
    are expected across Texas and into the
    plains tonight through Friday and a
    second system this weekend could bring
    damaging winds hail and tornadoes from
    Texas to Chicago checking today’s high
    temperatures 50s in the Northeast and
    Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the the
    South 94 in South
    Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
    price of a popular weight loss drug also
    ahead a life-saving transplant like no
    other the groundbreaking procedure that
    just saved a dying grandmother and later
    the 8-year-old and her violin on the
    world
    [Music]
    stage this is ABC News live the crush of
    families here in Poland at Refugee
    centers in Putin Russia on the ground in
    Ukraine close to the front line from the
    capital destructive Cat 4 store along I
    Boston is in the bullseye let’s go ABC
    News live America’s number one streaming
    news anytime anywhere streaming 24/7
    straight to you for free thank you for
    making ABC newsline America’s number one
    streaming
    news it’s lunchtime in America so what
    are we serving up well how about
    everything you need to know you know
    that sounds pretty
    good your Heth your money breaking news
    pop culture with the biggest Stars music
    Trends and of course good
    food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
    hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    after news for everything you need to
    know I love
    that we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your DNA will
    match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my knife oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC with so much at stake so much on the
    line more Americans turn here than any
    other newscast ABC News World News
    Tonight with David mure America’s number
    one most watched newscast across all of
    Television hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
    and we’re moms juggling tons of stuff
    every day like all you moms out there
    and you know what we love really love
    Pop Culture so listen now to our new
    podcast pop culture moms wherever you
    get your podcasts right now there’s just
    so much happening in our world so much
    at stake at the start of every morning
    and that’s why at Good Morning America
    we’re right here and we got you we got
    you we got
    you pretty intense scene there we’re
    back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
    Angeles uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
    during what became an aborted landing at
    LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
    the airport and touched down without
    incident a short time later it’s not
    clear what led to the hard Landing glad
    everyone’s okay the company that makes
    OIC and wovi is facing a senate
    investigation over what critics describe
    as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
    Sanders says the popular drugs which are
    used to treat diabetes and obesity are
    unaffordable for millions of Americans
    but they are dramatically cheaper in
    other countries but drug makers say it’s
    easy to overs simplify the complexities
    involved in pricing doctors here in New
    York say a groundbreaking new surgery
    has saved the life of a Dying
    grandmother and now she’s speaking out
    just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
    was Gravely ill suffering from heart
    failure and kidney disease but today I
    got more energy I feel um energized I
    feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
    grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
    after her doctors performed a combined
    heart pump and pig kidney transplant
    surgery whenever you do that um when you
    combine things that are just on The
    Cutting Edge um you know of the future
    um you just don’t know how it’s going to
    turn out the combination surgery a first
    but Lisa is not the first person to
    receive the Revolutionary kidney
    transplant she’s the second just last
    month a 62-year-old man in Massachusetts
    with endstage kidney disease became the
    first person to receive a genetically
    edited Pig kidney and he’s now home
    recovering both patients now providing
    hope for the more than 100,000 people in
    the US waiting on a transplant list no
    one will have to die waiting for someone
    else to die so they can be saved I’m
    getting stronger and stronger every day
    um
    and it just feels the right thing that I
    did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
    organ rejection and they feel good about
    her long-term prognosis we love to hear
    it yeah coming up the American Tourist
    in the Caribbean facing 12 years in
    prison for bullets found in his luggage
    also ahead New Hope the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011
    days whenever news breaks we are here in
    Israel a nation at war after that brutal
    surprise attack by Hamas on the ground
    in Ukraine reporting from Leon Maine the
    scene of a horrific mass shooting ABC
    News live is right there everywhere from
    the scene of that deadly missile strike
    in Dena Ukraine
    reporting from the earthquake in Turkey
    in Rolling Fork This Tornado tore
    through this little town from the most
    devastating disaster in Hawaii from
    Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
    campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
    traveling with the president in Mexico
    City wherever the story from the front
    lines from Southern Israel outside the
    Gaza Strip in Beirut from the FBI
    reporting from the nurses on the pick
    line here at 10 Downing Street in London
    streaming live to you wherever the story
    is wherever the the story is wherever
    the story is we’re going to take you
    there you’re streaming ABC News live ABC
    News live you’re streaming ABC News live
    ABC news live streaming free everywhere
    America’s number one streaming news it’s
    lunchtime in America so what do we
    serving up well how about everything you
    need to know you know that sounds pretty
    good give it to me your health your
    money breaking news pop culture with the
    biggest Stars music Trends and of course
    good
    food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
    hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afterno for everything you need to know
    I love
    that we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what the chance your DNA will
    match that out
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my KN oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
    nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
    security in Turks and cosos found four
    hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
    carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
    but he now faces up to 12 years in
    prison he’s required to stay in Turks
    Kos until his next court hearing in June
    stay strong that is the message from the
    parents of an American hostage held by
    Hamas seen on video for the first time
    since
    October this morning the world is now
    seeing HS Goldberg pollen alive more
    than 200 days after the American Israeli
    citizen was taken hostage during the
    October 7th attack goldber po speaking
    in Hebrew hersh’s hair is shaved and
    he’s missing part of his left Farm the
    24-year-old says I am the son of
    Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
    California and quote Mom Dad Libby orle
    I love you very much I miss you very
    much I think of you every day that I’m
    here I need you to stay strong for me
    and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
    Hamas recorded the video which hs’s
    parents gave ABC News permission to
    show hers was seen at the music festival
    in Israel that came under attack being
    pushed into this truck by Hamas
    terrorists his parents say Hirsch was
    hiding in a
    shelter when militants threw grenades
    inside severely wounding his arm just
    days after their son was taken captive
    last fall hersh’s mother said this to
    David mure we are every person’s
    nightmare that’s who we
    are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
    a mother or has a mother can imagine
    what I’m going through and now a mix of
    both relief and worry seeing a video of
    horse today is overwhelming we’re
    relieved to see him alive but we are
    also concerned about his health and
    [Music]
    [Applause]
    well-being the video of HS prompted
    protesters to take to the streets in
    Jerusalem last night demanding the
    government do more to bring home the
    hostages about 130 are still believed to
    be held by Hamas hers if you can hear
    this we heard your voice today for the
    first time in 201 days and if you can
    hear us we love you stay strong
    survive talks for a potential hostage
    deal between Israel and Hamas have
    stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
    the group will lay down its weapons if a
    two-state solution is implemented coming
    up the insects prompting calls to 911
    plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
    really out of this world we show it to
    you we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your D will
    match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use night oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC with so much at stake so much on the
    line more Americans turn here than any
    other newscast ABC News World News
    Tonight with David mure America’s number
    one most watched newscast across all of
    Television get ready America every
    Friday the hottest Trends Styles and
    must have what’s the right stuff to buy
    right now I really love that it’s time
    to buy the right stuff yes and big time
    too the right Stu Fridays on GMA you’re
    going to love it it’s lunchtime in
    America so what are we serving up well
    how about everything you need to know
    you know that sounds pretty good it to
    your health your money breaking news pop
    culture with the biggest Stars music
    Trends and of course good
    food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
    hour of GMA in the afternoon so join
    after newss for everything you need to
    know I love
    that whenever wherever news breaks it’s
    so important to always remember that
    lives are changed here in London in
    Buffalo yaldi Texas edin BR Scotland
    reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
    Ukrainian refugees here in Warson we’re
    heading to a small community outside of
    Mexico City getting you behind the
    stories as they happen ABC News live
    Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
    News live week nights wherever you
    stream your news only on ABC News live
    reporting from Arizona State Capital I’m
    Elizabeth schy wherever the story is
    we’ll take you there you’re streaming
    ABC News
    [Music]
    live time to check the pulse and we
    begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
    fact police in some parts of the
    Southeastern us say they are now getting
    tons of calls about this
    it is loud it is M cicas trying to
    attract a mate police urge please do not
    call them to complain next some football
    dreams are about to come true the NFL
    draft is tonight in Detroit with the
    number one pick the Bears are expected
    to choose Caleb Williams the quarterback
    who won the Heisman at USC Jaden Daniels
    the quarterback at LSU also won the
    Heisman he’s expected to be chosen
    second by the commanders he spoke to our
    will Reed
    do you have in your mind and your heart
    a team that you definitely want to go to
    I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not going
    to disclose that but kind of do I’ll see
    what happens how it plays out we will
    see tonight more from Daniels on Good
    Morning America as well and watch the
    draft right here on ABC next a violin
    Prodigy only 8 years old yes she’s eight
    she’s already played Carnegie Hall
    [Music]
    that is Ria Kang she is from New Jersey
    she just won a prestigious competition
    in
    Europe I love violin because I can touch
    people’s hearts with the um beauty of
    music I really want to become a great
    violinist well she’s well on her way she
    touched our hearts finally a truly
    highflying stunt this is skateboarder
    Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
    on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
    Brazil B the ramp was suspended from a
    hot air balloon he finished his trick by
    free fall falling back onto his board
    with a
    parachute top headlines
    next this is ABC News live the crush of
    families here in Poland at Refugee
    centers in Putin Russia on the ground in
    Ukraine close to the front line from the
    capital destructive Cat 4 storm along I
    Boston is in the Bulls let’s go ABC News
    live America’s number one streaming news
    any time anywhere streaming 247 straight
    to you for free thank you for making ABC
    newsline America’s number one streaming
    news we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your D will
    match that I’ll
    seene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my nice oh my got the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
    lot going on get another Avalanche
    warning that’s up to catch you up with
    what happened overnight a dangerous ice
    storm is impacting the morning commute
    what’s happening today escalating
    tensions in the Middle East what people
    are talking about the migrant crisis
    fast straightforward with some fun in
    Queen how does billionaire sound sounds
    good to me the Moose started chasing a
    dog first thing in the morning America
    this morning America’s number one early
    morning news on ABC News
    live it’s lunchtime in America so what
    are we serving up well how about
    everything you need to know you know
    that sounds pretty
    good your health your money breaking
    news pu culture with the biggest Stars
    music Trends and of course good food
    GMA 3 what you need to know a third hour
    of GMA in the afternoon so join us
    afternoon for everything you need to
    know I love
    [Music]
    that checking more top stories tensions
    are rising at campuses all across the
    country nearly a hundred protesters
    rallying against the war in Gaza were
    arrested at USC last night and dozens of
    pro Palestinian demonstrators were
    arrested at the University of Texas
    overseas Israeli forces launched new
    attacks in southern Lebanon saying they
    hit about 40 Terror targets an Israeli
    official claims half of the Hezbollah
    commanders there have now been killed
    Rudy Giuliani and former white house
    chief of staff Mark Meadows appear to
    have been indicted in a fake elector
    scheme in Arizona along with other Trump
    allies Trump himself was named as an
    unindicted co-conspirator the federal
    government is now requesting bird flu
    testing for dairy cattle the move
    affects cows being transported between
    states it comes after inactive traces of
    the virus were found in some milk
    samples today’s weather rain and snow
    from the Northwest to the Rockies severe
    storms in Texas and the plains rain
    across the nation’s midsection finally a
    good deed is sparking an unlikely
    friendship Danny new
    explains and right after he shoots a
    T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
    busis first met young Kelvin here he was
    a little startled opening my eyes and I
    see a kid that’s about my height it was
    the past Good Friday as you can see on
    the security footage from a coffee shop
    in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
    outside while he was waiting for his Joe
    and pray for a little bit but that’s
    when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
    at the Eye Care office next door noticed
    Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
    are you homeless cuz if you are here is
    a dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
    him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
    still help him get something Matt was
    touched and instead offered to buy
    Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
    with it I’m Matt buz but what Kelvin did
    not know was that Matt is the former
    star of the a& show country bucks and
    has become a very successful businessman
    in the hunting industry our station in
    Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
    first reunion recently where Kelvin
    learned this news on camera you’re on
    Google like you’re that famous I’m on
    Google I would say I’m not that famous
    though you can lend me a couple bucks
    right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
    do a whole lot more than that at his
    store you saw Kelvin getting to
    virtually hun in earlier Matt told
    Kelvin he could run around for 40
    seconds go and grab as much merch as he
    wanted did you really pick out this bike
    yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
    didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
    really put a price on inspiration this
    generation that’s coming up if they’re
    more like Kelvin it can change the world
    I give you a dollar you give me a $2,000
    bike clearly Kelvin is also going to be
    a great businessman one day guys we
    could take some tips that’s we can
    that’s what’s making news in America
    this morning by the way tonight’s draft
    87 Central right here on
    [Music]
    ABC it’s Thursday April 25th and All the
    President’s Men have been indicted again
    we start here
    Arizona’s attorney general files
    criminal charges against key Trump AIDS
    every action by Donald Trump and his
    allies has not gone unnoticed the 2020
    election continues to reverberate we’ll
    break it all
    down protest encampments have spread
    Nationwide and so have the responses
    from police there is concern that they
    are going to stay on campuses for the
    Long Haul we’ll take you to the latest
    campus where arrests have been made
    and President Biden signs a bill that
    sets the clock tick tocking so basically
    what we’re looking at is a year for this
    for sale to go through so what happens
    next the business world is scolling
    furiously to find
    out from ABC News this is start here I’m
    Brad
    milky presidents have to be given total
    immunity they have to be allowed to do
    their yeah later today the Supreme Court
    will hear a case about former president
    Donald Trump and whether he can be
    charged with any crime for anything he
    did while in office specifically this
    involves the case around January 6th and
    whether Trump tried to illegally subvert
    the 2020 presidential election and part
    of the government’s case there is that
    Trump and his top allies tried to submit
    slates of so-called fake electors these
    are the people who through the Electoral
    College technically elect the president
    on behalf of their state even though
    Biden won these states fair and square
    there was this push to have Republican
    lawmakers just say eh the vote was
    illegitimate these are the people we’d
    like to do the choosing instead that
    doesn’t just have the potential to be a
    federal crime it could be a State Crime
    too and last night Arizona officials
    announced indictments against those
    so-called fake electors and in a Twist
    they also indicted several people close
    to the former president let’s bring in
    ABC’s John sanui who leads our
    investigations coverage John who is
    being charged here so Brad this is
    really interesting this is a 11 fake
    electors some of which you know
    obviously held major roles in the
    Republican party and Arizona State
    politics that have been indicted but
    Brad it doesn’t stop there based on our
    team’s reading of this indictment some
    of which is redacted it does appear that
    many close aids to Donald Trump current
    and former were also indicted and it’s a
    who’s who Brad it includes Rudy Giuliani
    Mark Meadows Boris Epstein who still
    works for Donald Trump even Christina
    Bob one of his lawyers that was involved
    in some of the investigations that have
    gone on it’s just a remarkable reminder
    that you know we talk about all of the
    cases that have really haunted Donald
    Trump right you talk about the Manhattan
    DA’s case the special Council cases
    obviously fton County Georgia a big one
    that involved Donald Trump Rudy and
    Meadows but Arizona was another state
    that Donald Trump and his allies were
    trying to overturn the election there
    and now the state attorney general has
    said an indictment and here we are and
    so these names like you said huge names
    very close to Donald Trump what about
    Trump himself so Trump is not indicted
    here big difference from from the
    Georgia case Brad he’s an unindicted
    co-conspirator so it doesn’t mention
    Donald Trump by name but based on our
    reading of the indictment it appears
    Donald Trump is unindicted
    co-conspirator number one and it
    basically means that Donald Trump was a
    part of the actions and activities some
    of which obviously illegal based on the
    Attorney General’s interpretation of
    actions and thus those individuals
    including Judy Giuliani and Mark Meadows
    were indicted for their actions yeah can
    you tell me about like what the alleged
    scheme was here because they could have
    just indicted the Arizona officials
    Michigan for example is doing something
    similar where they just stuck to those
    people why did this go further so this
    went further because remember so much of
    this was visible to us right we saw Rudy
    Giuliani on the ground with some of his
    top allies and AIDS lobbying officials
    let’s say there were 5 million
    illegal aliens in
    Arizona it is
    um it’s beyond credulity that a few
    hundred thousand didn’t vote we
    obviously know based on even what we’ve
    seen in Georgia the phone calls that
    Mark Meadows and other top aids to
    Donald Trump were making i’ like to see
    if there’s a way that we could resolve
    this so it comes out well for everyone
    we’re all Republicans I think we all
    have the same goal and here’s the point
    think about Rusty Bowers right the
    former speaker of the Arizona house he
    said that they did have proof and I
    asked him do you have names for example
    we have 200,000 illegal immigrants some
    large number he testified before the
    house January 6 committee indicating the
    phone calls and lobbying and the
    pressure he was under by Donald Trump
    and his close Aid and I said do you have
    their names yes will you give them to me
    yes the president interrupted and said
    give the man what he needs Rudy every
    action by Donald Trump and his allies
    has not gone unnoticed and didn’t go
    unnoticed by law enforcement in these
    various States you talk about Michigan
    we obviously know Georgia now add
    Arizona to the list
    Brad it’s also just this Crystal Clear
    visualization based on this indictment
    from the Arizona State Attorney General
    that there was a real effort documents
    paperwork lobbying that was done to
    really build this alternate slate of
    electors to say outright that in these
    people’s opinion Joe Biden did not
    legitimately win the 2020 race in their
    eyes it was Donald Trump and clearly
    they would do anything possible even lie
    even allegedly commit a crime Brad to
    make that happen right as we record this
    no response yet from Trump or any of
    these po I mean they will be defendants
    as they were reigned after these
    indictments huge news here breaking
    overnight thank you so much John thank
    you
    Brad all right next up on start here
    these college protests are getting
    intense we’re back in a
    [Music]
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    this is the first time you are sitting
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    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
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    1st on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
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    America this morning America’s number
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    live when you think about successful
    protest movements most have a few things
    in common one they’re passionate two
    they’re nonviolent and three they have
    specific demands pressuring leaders to
    make real con sessions well last week
    students at Columbia University in New
    York started setting up tents on campus
    these were non-violent protesters but
    they were
    passionate they were nearly impossible
    to avoid and what these students were
    asking for was simple they wanted their
    school to divest itself from any
    Financial relationships with the state
    of Israel within 24 hours you could see
    this having an effect to the point where
    other protesters from around the city
    started joining them in some cases
    making the scene more chaotic and more
    nerving especially to Jewish students
    who are now being screamed at for any
    visible support for Israel those scenes
    from Colombia have galvanized more
    student groups across the country we’ve
    seen encampments spring up on other
    campuses and yesterday this seemed to
    explode I want to go to ABC’s Chief
    National correspondent Matt Gutman who
    is on the campus of USC in Los Angeles
    right now Matt these scenes are
    literally Coast to Coast at this point
    what are you seeing they are Brad we’ve
    seen protests virtually Coast to Coast
    obviously you just mentioned New York
    but there there’s also NYU not just
    Colombia um there’s Harvard and brown um
    there’s been protests at the University
    of Texas Austin those protesters were
    forcefully removed as well by uh campus
    security and
    police 20 people arrested there
    yesterday um we also had people
    protesting in Humbolt County at um
    University of California humble way up
    in the northern Wilds of California
    arrests made there as well and of course
    here at USC um one person was sort of
    detained and then the crowd sort of
    began rushing campus security it was not
    violent and the protesters by and large
    across the country asking for the same
    thing for their universities to divest
    from anything related to Israel or
    companies that make a profit off of the
    War uh taking place Gaza right now so if
    they’re nonviolent I mean why the police
    response cuz clearly this schools and
    local authorities have deemed a lot of
    these out of hand there is an issue with
    these protesters setting up tents uh
    there is concern that they are going to
    stay on campuses for the Long Haul
    there’s also concern that there have
    been activists who’ve intermingled with
    the students and the faculty and they’re
    not allowed to be on campus uh here at
    USC we’ve been told that about 50% of
    the activists that we’re seeing uh
    protesting certainly yesterday and
    possibly again today are people who are
    not affiliated with the university and
    their security concerns about that also
    commencement is not far away and campus
    security told me they’re just not going
    to allow that to happen they do not want
    people sleeping here protesting chanting
    yes sleeping on campus in tents in the
    quad absolutely not well and the schools
    seem uncomfortable with these protests
    right because while students here and
    there have described being punched or
    assaulted a lot of the incidents that we
    heard about involved this just
    threatening vile speech like at Colombia
    we saw someone holding up a sign
    basically suggesting hamas’s military
    Wing to Target some of the pro-israel
    demonstrators there were allegedly
    chance of like we are Hamas and people
    saying we don’t want you here Zionist
    and then Pro Palestinian demonstrators
    talk about how you can’t show up to one
    of these things you can’t protest
    without being worried about being
    suspended or threatened or doxed so that
    people never hire you but I mean speech
    is kind of different so how do schools
    decide when and how to involve the
    police
    it really depends which school and how
    significant the protests are here at USC
    it has been campus security that it’s
    handling it at the University of Texas
    Austin UT uh it was State Police that’s
    a State University uh school and that’s
    the threat that if these campus protests
    get out of hand if the protesters try to
    stay too long if they try to really
    embed themselves on campus with tents or
    if they look like they’re trying to stay
    for any long period of time then the
    major threat is that they would bring in
    uh not campus security but State Police
    or local authorities yeah it’s
    interesting because I feel like a lot of
    moderates are like these are concerning
    images CU on one hand you want to
    celebrate free speech on college
    campuses there’s a long proud tradition
    of that in this country on the other
    hand like these scenes are so intense
    that you can imagine how scary and
    disruptive it is to I know like today is
    USC’s final day of classes there are
    Jewish students afraid to attend class
    so a lot of moderates are kind of like
    but then on the far left you got a lot
    of protesters who are enjoying the
    visibility on the right now you’re
    seeing like Governor Greg Abbott in
    Texas saying like all these protest
    should go to jail you’re seeing
    politicians show up at events it sounds
    like it is now becoming a galvanizing
    force on the right as well Speaker of
    the House Mike Johnson met with students
    at Colombia they place a Target on the
    backs of Jewish students in the United
    States and here on this campus many of
    them telling him that these protests do
    make them feel threatened on campus the
    majority of my friends especially Jewish
    friends feel a sense of insecurity at
    this time in addition to that Mike
    Johnson’s saying that hey he’s going to
    talk to President Biden about this he’s
    going to bring it to the president he’s
    going to say that someone’s got to stop
    these protests across the country as
    Speaker of the House I am committing
    today that the Congress will not be
    silent as Jewish students are expected
    to run for their lives and stay home
    from their classes hiding in
    fear he said he’s going to even urge the
    president to call in the National Guard
    if necessary and appropriate of course
    there is a long and very sorted history
    of the National Guard interfering with
    protests anti-war protests in this
    country you remember remember the Kent
    State massacre back in
    1967 four students murdered on the lawn
    there at Kent State by national
    Guardsman that caused a massive uproar
    in the country so unclear that the
    president is going to want to uh go back
    to that again but obviously this is
    something that is in the Zeitgeist in
    America and that people are thinking
    about on the left and of course on the
    right side of the aisle as well wow yeah
    yeah I mean you can see how these
    encampments have kind of upended the
    Playbook and and now is the are becoming
    part of a playbook in themselves uh Matt
    Gutman they’re on the campus of USC
    thank you so much thanks
    Brad yesterday President Biden signed
    into law a package of foreign aid bills
    most notably were sending $60 billion in
    Aid to Ukraine which Biden said would
    start moving within hours the next few
    hours literally the few hours we going
    to begin sending in equipment to uh
    Ukraine for air defense Munitions for
    artillery for Rockets systems and
    armored vehicles this bill originated in
    the House of Representatives another
    version had actually been floating
    around in the Senate but this was the
    one that was approved in both Chambers
    and one of the big differences here was
    tucked inside this house bill it’s a
    measure that could potentially ban Tik
    Tock yeah the app with the Chinese
    parent company the app that reportedly
    has 170 billion American users that’s
    half the population well as of today the
    clock is ticking on a forced sale of Tik
    Tok so what happens now ABC Elizabeth
    SCH has been covering all this she
    covers politics and economics so
    Elizabeth I feel like this went from
    Theory to reality very quickly could
    this app actually go away what is in
    this measure very quickly Brad and you
    know we’ve been talking so much about
    this possibility of could Tik Tok
    actually be banned it’s been back and
    forth for years but the fact is we’re
    closer to that becoming a reality now
    than we have ever been but it’s still
    far away the Y’s are 79 the Nays are 18
    the provision in the law that was signed
    by President Biden basically gives Tik
    Tok N9 months to force a sale from its
    Chinese owner remember Tik Tok is owned
    by bite dance which is a company based
    in China there have been concerns from
    lawmakers and this escalated pretty
    quickly in the past couple of months
    that because Tik tok’s owned by a
    Chinese company the Chinese government
    can get access to Americans data it can
    manipulate Americans opinions possibly
    spread misinformation propaganda
    influence elections or have an undue
    influence on so many as you say 170
    million users this app is a spy balloon
    in Americans phones it is a modern-day
    Trojan Horse of the CCP used to surveil
    and exploit America’s personal
    information Tik Tok is a gun aimed at
    Americans heads basically what the US
    government in this law now is saying is
    that Tik Tok needs to divest from that
    Chinese company it has 9 months to do
    that and then President Biden could
    extend that for another 90 days so
    basically what we’re looking at is a
    year for this for sale to go through if
    the sale doesn’t happen then the app
    could be banned in the US now keep in
    mind like it’s not like Tik tok’s just
    going to disappear from your phone in a
    year if this ban happens but what the
    provision in the law says is that
    basically the app couldn’t get updated
    in the App Stores So eventually it just
    wouldn’t work anymore and then web
    servers couldn’t really host the app so
    at some point that would mean that it’s
    no longer usable and effectively would
    be banned at that point I see I see like
    you’re kind of restricting how it’s used
    on on these devices exactly if they sell
    who would they sell it to like I I keep
    wondering what if no one wants to buy it
    or what if they can’t find a price that
    they agree on what happens well and
    really the question is about the price
    because if you ask any company whether
    it’s a big consumer company or a tech
    company a lot of people would like to
    buy Tik Tok it is an incredibly valuable
    asset it has 170 million users who are
    glued to the platform it has the data on
    those users and it has this algorithm
    that is incredibly valuable because the
    algorithm keeps people there it keeps
    people creating content all the time Tik
    Tok allows me that unique ability to you
    know just go and be myself in front of a
    large audience and have people support
    my business because they like who I am
    and what I’m about when you talk to
    analysts who are looking at this
    possibility of a sale some of the
    biggest names that they throw out are
    big tech companies like Oracle or
    Microsoft Oracle could be an obvious
    buyer because it already works with Tik
    Tok to host some of those data servers
    remember this is a point Tik tok’s been
    making that it has a lot of its servers
    already in the US and Oracle is actually
    the company that it works with on that
    so that could make sense you also have
    out there the possibility of a Walmart I
    mean for a big consumer company that’s
    also doing a lot of e-commerce maybe
    they would want access to all of that
    digital gold basically that Tik Tok has
    the question really is can any of those
    companies pay the price one analyst I
    talked to said he thinks that Tik Tok
    right now is valued at about a hundred
    billion dollar that’s a number that a
    lot of people thr around 100 Bill 100
    billion 100 billion with a B that is
    massive that is a lot of cash to put
    forward so it would take a pretty big
    company to be able to put that kind of
    money forward the other option is let’s
    say a group of companies get together
    the former treasury secretary and your
    former president Trump Steve minuchin
    has proposed this idea of a Consortium
    basically a bunch of investors come
    together put up the capital and then
    they kind of like co-own Tik Tock the
    issue with this sale and so even if you
    have someone who has that much money the
    question would still be is would the
    Chinese government allow it because why
    would the Chinese government want to
    give up this incredibly valuable
    algorithm and they’ve basically
    suggested so far they don’t want to give
    it up so then if China tries to block a
    sale is there a way that maybe a company
    could buy Tik Tok without buying the
    algorithm so could you buy the brand all
    the users the data but not actually buy
    what its kind of crown jewel is maybe
    that’s something that China would allow
    is there a way that the company could go
    public through an IPO that wouldn’t mean
    that another company has to pay all this
    money so there’s options that are being
    floated out there but in the interim
    there’s going to be this kind of legal
    battle where Tik Tock is now saying Brad
    they want to fight this this whole law
    is illegal make no mistake this is a ban
    a ban on Tik Tok and a ban on you and
    your voice they say that this is
    unconstitutional and that the sale
    shouldn’t even have to be a topic at the
    first place yeah let’s talk about the
    fight in court cuz that seems like the
    thing that could push this well beyond
    nine months perhaps I mean what was is
    the argument from Tik Tok and I guess
    could China tell its parent company like
    nope don’t don’t do it don’t let them do
    it so Tik Tok signaled yesterday that it
    will file a lawsuit challenging this
    Force sale and it has yet to do that
    that’ll probably come out within a
    couple of weeks it’s actually ironic
    because the freedom of expression on Tik
    Tok reflects the same American values
    that make the United States a beacon of
    Freedom that will then take some time to
    get litigated but most investors who are
    keeping an eye on this say there’s no no
    way that these conversations about a
    sale or an IPO or anything like that
    when it comes to how to get Tik Tok free
    of that Chinese parent are going to
    happen until this kind of legal battle
    plays
    out probably at least going to consume
    the next couple of months I mean I think
    the really important thing for users to
    know for like people who are on Tik Tok
    all the time every day is nothing’s
    going to change in the app as this
    litigation is going forward even if
    there are talks behind the scenes about
    a buyer that’s not going to change the
    fact that at least for probably a year
    the app’s going to stay as it is and
    that’s something that Tik tok’s making a
    point of saying too for now proceed as
    planned don’t flee everything’s fine
    we’re going to fight this right and if
    you got companies that aren’t allowed to
    buy it for antitrust reasons or whatever
    you think that lowers the prices even
    more which is why Tik Tok is saying like
    you guys are forcing us into a fire sale
    we’re not going to get anything for this
    uh Elizabeth schy really helpful thank
    you so much thanks so much
    Brad okay one more quick break when we
    come back it’s one of the heaviest
    trophies in sports but it’s not weighing
    on his mind anymore one last thing is
    next this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney grind Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
    woman killed at the very beginning of
    her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around proba to
    God until years later when the real
    killer steps into the box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    D will match that on
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use oh my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
    tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
    power of the presidency oral arguments
    begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
    plus tornado severe weather the 10
    states in the path more Americans turn
    to World News Tonight with David mure
    the most watched newscast on television
    hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina and we’re
    moms juggling tons of stuff every day
    like all you moms out there and you know
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    culture moms wherever you get your
    podcast I’m Gio Bonitas covering the
    collapse of the Francis Scott Key bridge
    here in Maryland wherever the story is
    we’ll take you there you’re streaming
    ABC News
    live and one last
    thing yesterday Reggie Bush got a piece
    of history back Bush steps outside 354
    45 if you don’t remember before Reggie
    Bush was a star running back in the NFL
    back in the earlys he was a star running
    back at USC and that’s Reggie Bush being
    Reggie Bush he was part of what some
    call the greatest championship game ever
    played and in 2005 he won college
    football’s highest honor the Heisman
    Trophy Reggie Bush us but shortly after
    reports started bubbling up that bush
    and his family had accepted gifts from a
    local agent like help with their debt
    and a rental home they didn’t have to
    pay for Bush denied any impropriety but
    then this agent came out by name suing
    him saying he had given the Bush family
    almost
    $300,000 and wanted it back all of this
    would have made Bush ineligible to play
    college ball at the time so after an
    investigation arbitration and defamation
    lawsuits the NCAA stripped USC of its
    national championship and the Heisman
    trust asked for their trophy back he
    relented and sent it to them the NCAA
    determined that his violations meant he
    was ineligible to play in 2005 the year
    he won well think about where we are
    nowadays College athletes are allowed to
    work with agents they’re allowed to get
    endorsement deals some make far more
    than what Bush was allegedly promised
    gradually the tone around him shifted
    I’m not giving up that hman if I was
    Reggie Bush if there were cheating
    that’s one thing the fact that a guy
    made his his family a little more
    comfortable and this is something this
    we’re not talking about OJ Simpson here
    another Heisman winner Johnny Manzel
    said he wouldn’t have anything to do
    with the award until Bush got his trophy
    back well yesterday ESPN reported that
    bush has been reunited with his Heisman
    after 14 years the Heisman trust has
    given him a key part of his legacy back
    but this will set off more questions
    like will the NCAA restore USC the
    schools 2004 Championship does Bush
    deserve to be treated by today’s
    standards even if he did break the rules
    at the time because even if rules are
    unjust lots of other players conceivably
    scrimped and saved to get by so does it
    matter if he didn’t have to perhaps we
    already have our answer after all the
    original Trojans understood history is
    always seen Through The Eyes of the
    [Music]
    Victor also when you see people lugging
    around this Heisman Trophy it is
    outrageously heavy looking like it looks
    like you’re just carrying your teammate
    they just cast in bronze I wonder how
    much it cost to ship this thing back and
    forth from New York to wherever it’s
    going more on all these stories at ABC
    news.com or the ABC News app I’m Brad
    milky see you
    [Music]
    tomorrow tonight the Supreme Court takes
    on the power of the presidency oral
    arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
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    the 10 states in the path more Americans
    turn to world news tonight with David
    mure the most watched newscast on
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    there’s a lot going on get another
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    up with what happened overnight a
    dangerous ice storm is impacting the
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    escalating tensions in the Middle East
    what people are talking about the
    migrant crisis fast straightforward with
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    sound sounds good to me the Moose
    started chasing a dog first thing in the
    morning America this morning America’s
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    News live hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
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    D name will match that scene
    TI we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my KNE oh my God the
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    live right now in America this morning
    Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
    with police on more college campuses
    from California to Texas dozens of
    arrests a top lawmaker threatening to
    bring in the National Guard and now a
    major deadline set for
    tonight new indictments in the so-called
    fake elector scheme after the 2020
    presidential election the Trump allies
    involved the former president named as
    an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
    day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
    our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
    claim and the
    impact the airline industry now resp
    responding to new rules from the Biden
    Administration that would force the
    airlines to pay you back in cash if you
    face bad delays or cancellations what
    could come
    next New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011 days
    their message this morning the American
    Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
    than a decade in prison for what was
    found in his carryon plus a life saving
    transplant like no other the
    groundbreaking procedure that saved a
    dying grandmother and she’s only in the
    third
    grade but she and her violin are taking
    the World by
    storm from ABC news in New York this is
    America this morning good Thursday
    morning everyone I’m ran and Aly and I’m
    Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
    overnight at college campuses Across the
    Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
    Hamas war clashed with police in Texas
    and California at least 93 people have
    been arrested at USC and dozens more
    have been arrested at the University of
    Texas and today a major deadline at
    another campus where these protests
    first escalated last
    week more Chaos on college campuses
    across the
    country at the University of Texas at
    Austin Police clashing with Pro
    Palestinian protesters
    dozens arrested as officers used horses
    to disperse students some nearly
    crashing into our reporter on the scene
    no what are you doing what are you
    doing at the University of Southern
    California tense moments as police
    confronted protesters after tearing down
    tents officers in riot gear marching
    onto campus surrounding and arresting
    protesters who refus to
    leave protests also cropping up at Brown
    and Harvard where students protesting
    the war in Gaza are demanding the
    university divest from
    [Applause]
    Israel at colia where this wave of
    Israel Hamas War protests began last
    week the clock is ticking down to
    tonight’s deadline to end the protests
    on campus myself my peers my colleagues
    my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
    not going to rest we will stand here
    until the University divests from
    Israeli aparti and their genocidal
    campaign in Gaza protests have been
    marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
    violence driven in some cases officials
    say by outside non-student agitators one
    officer was assaulted with a water jug
    at cow poy Humbolt in Northern
    California that school now closed
    through the weekend house Speaker Mike
    Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
    funding for schools that don’t create
    safe environments for Jewish students he
    visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
    allow this kind of hatred and an
    anti-Semitism to flourish on our
    campuses they have chased down Jewish
    students they have mocked them and
    reviled them they have shouted racial
    epithets Johnson later speaking with our
    Lindsey Davis but for people who are
    just saying we simply don’t like the way
    the Palestinians are being treated and
    killed that’s a different conversation
    have that conversation have a debate we
    believe in the free expression of ideas
    and the free Marketplace of ideas that
    is not what is happening here they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from exercising
    their freedom that’s the limit that’s
    the line Johnson also suggested the
    National Guard could be used if needed
    to break up the protest
    the White House said it condemns
    anti-Semitism but said free speech on
    college campuses is important the other
    big story this morning new indictments
    in a so-called fake elector scheme after
    the 2020 election former president Trump
    is named as an unindicted co-conspirator
    ABC’s M win has the details on this m
    good morning Ranna and good morning
    Arizona is now the fourth state where
    allies of former president Trump have
    been charged with trying to keep him in
    power this morning seven attorneys or
    Aids affiliated with former president
    Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
    over alleged efforts to overturn the
    2020 election in that state they include
    Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
    Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
    National Committee senior Council for
    election Integrity the indictment makes
    references to those affiliated with
    Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
    attorney general says the names will be
    unredacted after each is served the
    indictment Arizona’s election was free
    and fair the people of Arizona elected
    President Biden unwilling to accept this
    fact the defendants charged by the state
    grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
    the lawful transfer of the presidency
    the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
    electors accused of submitting a
    document to Congress falsely declaring
    that Trump had won Arizona the charges
    include fraud forgery and conspiracy
    Trump is named as unindicted
    co-conspirator one in the case which
    claims Trump and his allies schemed to
    prevent the lawful transfer of the
    presidency the Trump campaign calls the
    indictment another example of Democrats
    weaponization of the legal system Trump
    was also named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
    Republicans are charged with illegally
    trying to replace electoral votes for
    Biden with electoral votes for Trump
    meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
    arguments over whether Trump can be
    prosecuted in his federal election
    interference case stemming from the
    January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
    absolute immunity over criminal
    prosecution for any official acts as
    president on the theory that just like
    with civil immunity presidents need to
    be able do to do their jobs without
    worrying about being sued presidents
    need to be able to do their jobs without
    worrying about being indicted and so
    he’s raised this primarily in the
    January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
    decision could have implications on some
    of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
    stake is first of all the the various
    cases pending against Donald Trump in
    which he’s raised the question of
    criminal immunity that includes all
    three of those that have not gone to
    trial the January 6 case the maralago
    case and the Georgia case because for
    all of those for at least part of the
    time he was
    President well arguments are heard at
    the Supreme Court former president Trump
    will be in a New York courtroom for his
    hush money trial former National
    Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
    back on the stand Andrew M thank you
    house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
    repeal a near total ban on abortions
    after three Republicans crossed party
    lines to pass the bill it now heads to
    the state senate if the law which dates
    all the way back to 1864 is repealed
    Arizona will revert to a 15-week
    abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
    yesterday heard arguments on whether
    federal law can override State abortion
    bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
    justices appeared divided a ruling is
    expected in June now to your money in
    the airline industry responding to new
    rules from the Biden Administration that
    would force the airlines to pay you back
    in cash when you face bad delays or
    cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
    Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
    back against new rules that will soon
    require them to refund passengers for
    certain flights that are canceled or
    delayed the US transportation department
    announced the new policy yesterday that
    will require Airlines give automatic
    cash refunds within seven days when a
    flight is canceled for any reason
    delayed by more than 3 hours for
    domestic travel and more than 6 hours
    for international travel or if the
    airline changes any of your airports
    adds connections or downgrades your seat
    I think for you know the average flyer
    um it’d be really good beneficial
    holding the uh airlines more accountable
    under current regulations the airlines
    decide how long a delay must last before
    triggering refunds Transportation
    secretary Pete Budaj says that era is
    over this isn’t just about enforcing
    when something goes wrong it’s making it
    less likely something would go wrong in
    the first place but the trade group
    representing the airlines argues
    customer satisfaction and air travel are
    at an all-time high and air fairs are at
    an all-time low when adjusted for
    inflation they say refund complaints
    have fallen sharply since 2020 with $43
    billion in refunds since then and they
    argue this new policy will add confusion
    for consumers reduction in choice and a
    decline in competition which
    historically drives up prices the Biden
    Administration argues otherwise this
    will build confidence in air travel at a
    time when Airlines need to do more to
    secure passengers trust and there are
    more ways to get a refund if your
    checked luggage isn’t delivered within
    12 hours for your domestic travel or
    your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
    Airlines have 6 months to comply with
    new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
    for that a milestone today in Baltimore
    a new shipping channel is opening where
    the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
    bridge used to be it will reopen the
    city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
    it handled before last month’s bridge
    collapse the next challenge is freeing
    the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
    cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
    your Thursday weather
    this is what’s left of a freight train
    that derailed about 200 miles west of
    Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
    60 M an hour blew the cars off the rails
    but no one was hurt more severe storms
    are expected across Texas and into the
    plains tonight through Friday and a
    second system this weekend could bring
    damaging winds hail and tornadoes from
    Texas to Chicago checking today’s high
    temperatures 50s in the Northeast and
    Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the South
    94 in South
    Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
    price of a popular weight loss drug also
    ahead a life-saving transplant like no
    other the groundbreaking procedure that
    just saved a dying grandmother and later
    the 8-year-old and her violin on the
    world stage
    [Music]
    we have a beautiful young woman killed
    at the very beginning of her life what
    happens when the interrogation helps put
    the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
    around probably to God until years later
    when the real killer steps into the box
    the tough question here is what’s the
    chance your D name will match that
    scene we have your DNA
    theine what did you use my ni oh my God
    the interrogation
    Monday on ABC tonight the Supreme Court
    takes on the power of the presidency
    oral arguments begin in Donald Trump’s
    bid for immunity plus tornado severe
    weather the 10 states in the path more
    Americans turn to World News Tonight
    with David mure the most watched
    newscast on television Sunday night
    people think they really know you what
    do you think of the biggest
    misconception about
    you Michael straan John bonjovi I’m a
    rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
    John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
    on
    EC this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC Whenever Wherever news breaks
    it’s so important to always remember
    that lives are changed here in London in
    Buffalo yaldi Texas Edinburgh Scotland
    reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
    Ukrainian refugees here in warong we’re
    heading to a small community outside of
    Mexico City getting you behind the
    stories as they happen ABC News live
    Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
    News live week nights wherever you
    stream your news only on ABC News live
    right now there’s just so much happening
    in our world so much at stake at the
    start of every morning and that’s why at
    Good Morning America we’re right here
    and we got you we got you we got
    you who who pretty intense scene there
    we’re back now with a bumpy Landing in
    Los Angeles uh a lansa 747 bounced twice
    during what became an aborted landing at
    LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
    the airport and touched down without
    incident a short time later it’s not
    clear what led to the hard Landing glad
    everyone’s okay the company that makes
    OIC and wovi is facing a senate
    investigation over what critics describe
    as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
    Sanders says the popular drugs which are
    used to treat diabetes and obesity are
    unaffordable for millions of Americans
    but they are dramatically cheaper in
    other countries but drug makers say it’s
    easy to oversimplify the complexities
    involved in pricing doctors here in New
    York say a groundbreaking new surgery
    has saved the life of a Dying
    grandmother and now she’s speaking out
    just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
    was Gravely ill suffering from heart
    failure and kidney disease but today I
    got more energy I feel um energized I
    feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
    grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
    after her doctors performed a combined
    heart pump and pig kidney trans surgery
    whenever you do that um when you combine
    things that are just on The Cutting Edge
    um you know of the future um you just
    don’t know how it’s going to turn out
    the combination surgery a first but Lisa
    is not the first person to receive the
    Revolutionary kidney transplant she’s
    the second just last month a 62-year-old
    man in Massachusetts with end-stage
    kidney disease became the first person
    to receive a genetically edited Pig
    kidney and he’s now home recovering both
    patients now providing hope for the more
    than 100,000 people in the US waiting on
    a transplant list no one will have to
    die waiting for someone else to die so
    they can be saved I’m getting stronger
    and stronger every day um
    and it just feels the right thing that I
    did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
    organ rejection and they feel good about
    her long-term prognosis we love to hear
    it yeah coming up the American Tourist
    in the Caribbean facing 12 years in
    prison for bullets found in his luggage
    also ahead New Hope for the hostages the
    parents of a young American held by
    Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
    new video of their son after 2011
    days whenever news breaks we are here in
    Israel a nation at war after that brutal
    surprise attack by Hamas on the ground
    in Ukraine reporting from Leon Maine the
    scene of a horrific mass shooting ABC
    News live is right there there
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    missile strike in Dena
    Ukraine reporting from the earthquake in
    Turkey en rolling for this tornado tore
    through this little town from the most
    devastating disaster in Hawaii from
    Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
    campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
    traveling with the president in Mexico
    City wherever the story from the front
    lines from Southern Israel outside the
    Gaza Strip in beir from the FBI
    reporting from the nurses on the picket
    line here at 10 Downing Street in London
    streaming live to you wherever the story
    is wherever the story is wherever the
    story is we’re going to take you there
    you’re streaming ABC News live ABC News
    live you’re streaming ABC News live ABC
    news live streaming free everywhere
    America’s number one streaming news this
    is the first time you are sitting down
    like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt cartridge what were you thinking
    that moment when you felt that my life
    is over right here you’ve just been told
    you’re going to be 9 years in one of the
    worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
    woman killed at the very beginning of
    her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
    to God until years later when the killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your DNA will
    match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
    nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
    security in Turks and Kos found four
    hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
    carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
    but he now faces up to 12 years in
    prison he’s required to stay in Turks
    and Kos until his next court hearing in
    June stay strong that is the message
    from the parents of an American hostage
    held by Hamas seen on video for the
    first time since
    October this morning the world is now
    seeing hirh Goldberg pollen alive more
    than 200 days after the American Israeli
    citizen was taken hostage during the
    October 7th attack Goldberg po speaking
    in Hebrew hersh’s hair is shaved and
    he’s missing part of his left arm the
    24-year-old says I am the son of
    Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
    California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
    I love you very much I miss you very
    much I think of you every day that I’m
    here I need you to stay strong for me
    and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
    Hamas recorded the video which her’s
    parents gave ABC News permission to
    show her was seen at the music festival
    in Israel that came under attack being
    pushed into this truck by Hamas
    terrorists his parents say hirs was
    hiding in a
    shelter when militants threw grenades
    inside severely wounding his arm just
    days after their son was taken captive
    last fall hs’s mother said this to David
    mure we are every person’s
    nightmare that’s who we
    are anyone who’s a parent anyone who who
    is a mother or has a mother can imagine
    what I’m going through and now a mix of
    both relief and worry seeing a video of
    HS today is overwhelming we’re relieved
    to see him alive but we are also
    concerned about his health and
    [Applause]
    wellbeing the video of HS prompted
    protesters to take to the streets in
    Jerusalem last night demanding the
    government do more to bring home the
    hostages about 130 are still believed to
    be held by Hamas pers if you can hear
    this we heard your voice today for the
    first time in 201 days and if you can
    hear us we love you stay strong
    survive talks for a potential hostage
    deal between Israel and Hamas have
    stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
    the group will lay down its weapons if a
    two-state solution is implemented coming
    up the insects prompting calls to 9
    plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
    really out of this world we’ll show it
    to
    you we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around praise to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your D will
    match that out
    scene we you have your DNA at the scene
    what did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC Sunday
    night people think they really know you
    what do you think of the biggest
    misconception about
    you Michael straan John bonjovi I’m a
    rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
    John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
    on EBC tonight the Supreme Court takes
    on the power of the presidency oral
    arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
    for immunity plus tornado severe weather
    the 10 states in the path more Americans
    turn to World News Tonight with David
    mure the most watched newscast on
    television why do so many people start
    their day here from ABC News this is
    start here to be in the know and get a
    different take on the day’s top stories
    a lot of news today so let’s get into it
    listen now to the Daily News podcast
    honored with four Edward R murl Awards
    and see why the New York Times calls it
    a news podcast worth listening to start
    here a BC News make it your daily first
    listen now that’s a part of the story I
    bet you didn’t see coming wherever you
    get your podcasts start here this is the
    first time you are sitting down like
    this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking of that moment when you felt
    that my life is over right here you’ve
    just been told you’re going to be 9
    years in one of the wor worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on
    ABC reporting from Miami Florida I’m
    Victor okendo wherever the story is
    we’ll take you there you’re streaming
    ABC News
    [Music]
    live time to check the pulse and we
    begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
    fact police in some parts of the
    Southeastern us say they are now getting
    tons of calls about
    this it is loud it is male cicas trying
    to attract a mate police urge please do
    not call them to complain next some
    football dreams are about to come true
    the NFL draft is tonight in Detroit with
    the number one pick the Bears are
    expected to choose Caleb Williams the
    quarterback who won the Heisman at USC
    Jaden Daniels the quarterback at LSU
    also won the Heisman he’s expected to be
    chosen second by the commanders he spoke
    to our will
    Reed do you have in your mind and your
    heart a team that you definitely want to
    go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
    going to disclose that but kind of do we
    I’ll see what happens how it plays out
    we will see tonight more from Daniels on
    Good Morning America as well and watch
    the draft right here on ABC next a
    violin Prodigy only eight years old yes
    she’s eight and she’s already played
    Carnegie Hall
    [Music]
    that is Ria Kang she’s from New Jersey
    she just won a prestigious competition
    in
    Europe I love violin because I can touch
    people’s hearts with the um beauty of
    music I really want to become a great
    violinist well she’s well on her way she
    touched our hearts finally a truly
    highflying stunt this is skateboarder
    Brendan Hayward from LA doing his thing
    on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
    Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
    air balloon he finished his trick by
    free falling back onto his board with a
    parachute top headlines
    next Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new of
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John Bon Joi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the the Box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    DNA will match that off
    scene we have your DNA at
    theine what did you use my ni oh my God
    the interrogation tapes Monday on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
    lot going on get another Avalanche
    warning that’s up to catch you up with
    what happened overnight a dangerous ice
    storm is impacting the morning commute
    what’s happening today escalating
    tensions in the Middle East what people
    are talking about the migrant crisis
    fast straightforward with some fun in
    between how does billionaire sound
    sounds good to me the Moose started
    chasing a dog first thing in the morning
    America this morning America’s number
    one early morning news on ABC News
    live this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you you
    think in that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on
    ABC checking more top stories tensions
    are rising at campuses all across the
    country nearly aund protesters rallying
    against the war in Gaza were arrested at
    USC last night and dozens of pro pales
    inian demonstrators were arrested at the
    University of Texas overseas Israeli
    forces launched new attacks in southern
    Lebanon saying they hit about 40 Terror
    targets an Israeli official claims half
    of the Hezbollah commanders there have
    now been killed Rudy Giuliani and former
    white house chief of staff Mark Meadows
    appeared to have been indicted in a fake
    elector scheme in Arizona along with
    other Trump allies Trump himself was
    named as an unindicted co-conspirator
    the federal government is now requesting
    bird flu testing for cattle the move
    affects cows being transported between
    states it comes after inactive traces of
    the virus were found in some milk
    samples today’s weather rain and snow
    from the Northwest to the Rockies severe
    storms in Texas and the plains rain
    across the nation’s midsection finally a
    good deed is sparking an unlikely
    friendship Danny new
    explains and right after he shoots a
    T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
    busbus first met young Kelvin here he
    was a little startled in my eyes and I
    see a kid that’s about my height it was
    this past Good Friday as you can see on
    this security footage from a coffee shop
    in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
    outside while he was waiting for his Joe
    and pray for a little bit but that’s
    when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
    at the Eye Care office next door noticed
    Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
    are you homeless cuz if you are here is
    a dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
    him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
    still help him get something Matt was
    touched and instead offered to buy
    Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
    with it I’m not buzz but what Kelvin did
    not know was that Matt is the former
    star of the A&E show country bucks and
    has become a very successful businessman
    in the hunting industry our station in
    Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
    first reunion recently where Kelvin
    learned this news on camera you’re on
    Google like you’re that famous I’m on
    Google I would say I’m not that famous
    though you can L me a coup of looks
    right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
    do a whole lot more than that at his
    store you saw Kelvin getting to
    virtually hun in earlier Matt told
    Kelvin he could run around for 40
    seconds go and grab as much merch as he
    wanted did you really pick out this bike
    yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
    didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
    really put a price on inspiration this
    generation that’s coming up could if
    they’re more like Kelvin it can change
    the world
    I give you a dollar you give me a $2,000
    bike clearly Kelvin is also going to be
    a great businessman one day guys we
    could take some tips that’s we can
    that’s what’s making news in America
    this morning by the way tonight’s draft
    87 Central right here on
    ABC ABC News America’s number one news
    [Music]
    source hi I’m d m today on ABC News live
    first and unprecedented day in American
    history a former president and current
    presidential candidate faces four
    concurrent and consequential legal
    battles all centered on charges of
    corrupting elections the Supreme Court
    is set to hear arguments over whether
    presidents are immune to prosecution for
    crimes committed while in office the
    case could have major implications for
    the special council’s election
    interference case against former
    president Trump overnight in Arizona
    Trump became unindicted co-conspirator
    number one in an election fraud case
    that has produced indictment for his
    former lawyer one of his current lawyers
    and his white house chief of staff Trump
    was also named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in a similar Michigan
    case yesterday as well and Trump returns
    to a Manhattan Criminal Court today for
    his hush money trial over his alleged
    efforts to interfere in the 2016
    election we have Team coverage of
    Trump’s legal battles and what they
    could mean for the race for the White
    House and we be been with the Supreme
    Court set to hear arguments over
    presidential immunity the issue and
    question is whether former president
    Trump should be immun from Criminal
    prosecution for his alleged efforts to
    overturn the 2020 election because he
    was president at the time Trump’s
    attorneys argue the presidency can’t
    function if the president can face
    criminal charges claiming it would tie
    the hands of future presidents so far
    two lower courts have rejected those
    arguments warning it would collapse the
    system of separated Powers by putting a
    president Above the Law now the Supreme
    Court has to decide whether or not to
    overrule them senior National
    correspondent in ABC News live anchor
    Terry Moran joins me now from the
    Supreme Court for more Terry how do you
    expect the attorneys on each side here
    to make their case to the Justices today
    vigorously Diane and you just summed up
    the Trump case pretty well they are
    going to say that the presidency cannot
    function if presidents are always
    worried always looking over their
    shoulder at potential prosecutions for
    official acts that they will be
    paralyzed they won’t be able to act
    fully swiftly efficiently for the good
    of the country and they will point to a
    couple of things first president’s
    already have absolute immunity from
    civil lawsuits you can’t sue a president
    for an official act that the president
    took and that gives the president the
    leeway to act they saying this is the
    same thing the other thing is that they
    say there are plenty of cases where
    presidents you know have to go right up
    to the edge of the law or beyond for
    example uh President Obama ordered the
    killing of an American citizen Anor Al
    alaki in Yemen without any due process
    of law no Fourth Amendment no Fifth
    Amendment he based it on legal
    authorization to use Force against
    terrorism is that lawful could a
    prosecutor pursue him could a prosecutor
    pursue George Bush for his interrogation
    techniques that he authorized so there’s
    a real live question in there you can
    expect uh the just the uh Trump lawyers
    to argue that on the other hand the
    argument from uh the Justice bar special
    Council Jack Smith is very simple
    presidents are not above the law if they
    commit a crime they must face trial
    Terry how significant is the timing of
    this case with less than 6 months until
    election day well the timing is crucial
    but the court isn’t going to pay
    attention to that they they don’t
    operate on a political calendar they say
    and they shouldn’t tether their opinions
    to the desires of one partisan party or
    the other but the timing is critical if
    they make a swift decision in this case
    one that would allow it to move forward
    there are various permutations of how
    they could decide this but if they make
    a swift case decision that makes this
    case go forward there could be a trial
    before the November election that would
    give voters the opportunity to decide
    for themselves how the jury came out
    with a verdict in that case if not it
    could be held till after the November
    election and into a possible Trump
    second term if he wins and if he wins he
    could just kill this investigation and
    take this case down altoe so a lot very
    very high stakes mostly for the
    Constitution and the separation of
    powers but also for the voters as they
    decide this election all right A lot of
    people watching this one closely senior
    National correspondent Terry Moran
    thanks Terry
    [Music]
    former president Trump says he wanted to
    attend those Supreme Court arguments but
    the judge and his Manhattan criminal
    trial said he has to be in that
    courtroom today former National inquir
    publisher David Pecker’s expected to
    return to the stand and expand on his
    claims of a scheme to catch and kill
    negative stories about Trump during the
    2016 election season including former
    play by Playboy model Karen mcdougall’s
    story of an affair with Trump meanwhile
    Trump is now part of two more cases
    related to election interference as an
    un indicted co-conspirator ABC News
    senior investigative correspondent Aon
    kki has the
    latest Donald Trump is UN indicted
    co-conspirator one in a case out of
    Arizona that said he and others schemed
    to prevent the lawful transfer of the
    presidency to keep Trump in office after
    the 2020 election against the will of
    Arizona’s voters the indictment names
    Republican electors and references this
    video from December 2020 when they met
    at party headquarters to certify the
    election for Trump even though Joe Biden
    won the state Donald J Trump of the
    State of Florida number of votes 11 the
    Arizona indictment also charges seven
    others including Rudy Giuliani former
    white house chief of staff Mark Meadows
    and Trump’s senior adviser Boris epin
    with trying to declare Trump the 2020
    winner contrary to voter intent and the
    law the people of Arizona elected
    president Biden unwilling to accept this
    fact the defendants charged by the state
    grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
    the lawful transfer of the presidency
    Trump has also been named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
    Republicans were charged with illegally
    trying to replace electoral votes for
    Biden in 2020 with electoral votes for
    Trump he plans to bring his 2024
    campaign to Michigan next week during a
    day off from his criminal trial in New
    York where publisher David pecker
    returns to the witness stand to explain
    how the national Inquirer ended up
    paying Playboy model Karen McDougall
    $150,000 to take her story of a
    year-long sexual relationship with Trump
    off the market Trump denied the affair
    but by June 2016 pecker testified he was
    serving as the eyes in ears of the Trump
    campaign changing the national
    inquirer’s business model from buying
    stories to publish to buying stories to
    bury if they were damaging to Trump’s
    presidential
    aspirations and Diane we are still
    waiting on the judge here to decide
    whether to hold Trump in contempt for
    violating the gag order that ruling
    could come at any time Diane senior
    investigative correspondent Erin kki
    thank you and I want to bring in ABC
    News executive editorial producer John
    santui for more on this John how
    significant is it that Trump has now
    been named an unindicted co-conspirator
    in two more cases it’s just remarkable
    right we would think that Donald Trump
    is done with being added to any of the
    case loads around the country but the
    remarkable thing here is that Donald
    Trump obviously we know what happened in
    Georgia but to think that he’s part of
    another case that we just learned about
    last night in Arizona is remarkable and
    you know take aside for a second Donald
    Trump to think that his top advisers his
    allies Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows borish
    Epstein who Diane just to you know it’s
    not a name not familiar to most of our
    viewers this is a person that has worked
    for Donald Trump since the 2016 campaign
    again in 2020 brief stint in the white
    house he’s current the guy currently the
    person that is cesing a legal team for
    all the different Trump cases and he’s
    still on the Trump payroll one of the
    other people that was indicted in this
    case Christina Bob she was working on
    some of the cases that involved Trump
    over the last year she just left the
    Trump campaign not saying goodbye she
    just joined the RNC which obviously has
    gone through a huge takeover by team
    Trump now meanwhile in this hush money
    case playing out in Manhattan today
    former National inquir publisher David
    pecker has already testified that he
    agreed to this scheme to catch and kill
    negative stories about then candidate
    Trump and that that only agreement that
    came agreement only came about once
    Trump started running for president how
    critical is that testimony to the
    prosecution hugely critical because the
    reality is that what they are doing and
    we’ve seen this very slowly and
    methodically they are building out this
    relationship that Donald Trump David
    pcker and Michael Cohen had they got a
    little bit into the testimony earlier
    this week about a former doorman at
    Trump Tower that talked about an
    illegitimate child that Trump allegedly
    had story ended up not being true at all
    however now they’re moving more into a
    bigger case a bigger story this is Karen
    McDougall and you know you have to
    remember obviously this case the
    indictment in the Manhattan Cas is about
    Stormy Daniels but Karen McDougall is
    the same story if you will an affair
    with Donald Trump paid off by David
    pcker for her silence and nevertheless
    you know just shows that this was not a
    one-time thing and the timeline of that
    payment again leading up to the 2016
    election the difference between the two
    is the way in which the payment was
    logged it was a direct payment dealt
    with by the national inquir not a
    reimbursement with Cohen and thus
    there’s nothing about something in the
    books Allah you know legal reimbursement
    fees Etc which is why we get into a
    business fraud claim in this case with
    34 criminal counts so what are you
    listening for when pecker takes the
    stand again today so I’m listening for a
    bunch of things I think that so much of
    what he said the other day number one
    just because he spoke and and of itself
    was significant I’m listening for more
    of the facts to show how close of a
    relationship this was and I think there
    was something really important the other
    day that he said on the stand Diane
    anytime I heard something about Trump or
    the family we all had a deal I picked up
    the phone and called Michael Cohen and
    then we would come over and we talk out
    how we would do this and he talked about
    how it would be once a week occasionally
    then it became every day we have not
    gotten yet to the heart of the camp
    campaign we haven’t gotten to the fall
    of 2016 where so much happened that’s
    what I want to see the intensity did it
    pick up certainly seems like it did and
    John I’m out of time but quickly we’re
    also awaiting a ruling on former
    president Trump potentially being held
    in contempt for alleged gag order
    violations what’s the latest on that
    we’re waiting so this is going to be
    something that judge Maran will probably
    just post the docket we don’t think
    we’ll see it in open court but
    nevertheless it’s possible the reality
    is Donald Trump right now prosecutors
    want a $1,000 fine per violation they
    have formally filed 10 mentioned in 11
    so could be a $110,000 fine or as we’ve
    know from our reporting the Secret
    Service had conversations that if Donald
    Trump was held in contempt of court and
    put in jail for a small period of time
    they’re ready if that happens remarkable
    if it does all right John sanui thank
    you and we will be following the story
    and those Supreme Court oral arguments
    all day long we will bring you the
    latest right here on ABC News live
    meanwhile law enforcement is cracking
    down on growing anti-war protests on
    college campuses across the country
    universities from New York City to
    Austin to Los Angeles and Austin Texas
    are seeing a wave of demonstrations amid
    the Israel Hamas War ABC’s Trevor alt is
    at the University of Southern California
    where police arrested more than 90
    protesters the Nationwide movement of
    Campus
    demonstrations leading to sometimes
    violent
    clashes overnight at Emerson College in
    Boston protesters attempting to form a
    human wall to stop police moving in up
    to a 100 protesters arrested
    police at the University of Southern
    California overnight arresting 93 people
    while removing tents and clearing
    protesters from a Gaza solidary Camp one
    Precinct now full of Arrested protesters
    these tense moments after a scuffle
    between officers in riot gear and a pro
    Palestinian
    group University now closed to anyone
    but students it makes me feel threatened
    and intimidated and I think that the
    anti-semitic rhetoric must be condemned
    by the univers
    an unauthorized protest breaking out at
    the University of Texas in Austin no
    what are you doing dozens arrested as
    officers used horses to disperse crowds
    some nearly crashing into our mura vial
    who was on the scene a cameraman filming
    the demonstration grabbed by police and
    thrown to the
    ground similar encampments springing up
    at Brown University in
    [Applause]
    Harvard and then columia University
    officials extending a deadline to remove
    this large encampment to Thursday night
    as negotiations with students continue
    myself my peers my colleagues my friends
    we’re not going to stop we’re not going
    to rest we will stand here until the
    University divests from Israeli
    apartheid and their genocidal campaign
    in
    Gaza house Speaker Mike Johnson visiting
    campus criticizing school officials for
    allowing the continued demonstrations we
    just can’t allow this kind of hatred in
    any any ISM to flourish on our campuses
    they have chased down Jewish students
    they have mocked them and reviled them
    they have shouted racial epithets the
    speaker telling our lindsy Davis schools
    could lose Federal funding they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from exercising
    their freedom that’s the limit that’s
    the
    line and ABC’s Trevor alt joins me now
    from the campus of USC in Los Angeles
    with more Trevor I know it’s early there
    now now but what has it been like on
    campus these last few
    days well like a lot of campuses Diane
    it has been increasingly intense these
    are not necessarily new demonstrations
    but they continue to grow and also as
    they are growing the police response is
    growing too and even though this morning
    the demonstrations have been cleared out
    you heard in that report 93 people
    arrested overnight here there’s still in
    place these restrictions on who is even
    allowed on USC’s campus students faculty
    staff they all have to present a campus
    ID before they are even allow loud here
    having said that those restrictions
    don’t necessarily mean it’s going to
    stop people from coming out and
    demonstrating I think it’s still very
    likely you’re going to see even more
    maybe even bigger demonstrations as
    early as today
    Diane now Trevor protesters say they’re
    asking for these institutions to divest
    from Israel what are you hearing from
    demonstrators
    there yeah it’s a kind of a combination
    of of localized goals and also broader
    goals as part of the larger movement so
    here at USC you mentioned the divesting
    from Israel but they also uh have that
    big controversy about the valedictorian
    the Muslim student who’s spoken out
    against what’s happening in Gaza who has
    been denied her chance to speak at the
    graduation ceremony that’s also
    something the demonstrators are talking
    about but they also make it clear that
    this is about more than simply USC’s
    actions as is also the case with all of
    these demonstrations on campuses across
    the country it’s about more broadly
    protesting the actions of the Israeli
    military and supporting the people of
    Gaza so while I think uh you might see
    some kind of action from the University
    that’s not a guarant guantee they might
    not do anything I don’t know that if
    they simply were to let the valid Coran
    speak the demonstrations here might stop
    I think just as could be the case
    everywhere else you could continue to
    see those larger demonstrations all
    right Trevor Alton Los Angeles thanks
    Trevor and the family of an Israeli
    American hostage is speaking out after
    seeing him in a newly released video
    from Hamas the video shows a severely
    injured hirh Goldberg Poland appearing
    to speak under duress asking his family
    to keep fighting and sending a message
    to Israel ABC News foreign correspondent
    Tom Sufi bur is in Jerusalem with
    more
    Shalom Goldberg poin more than 200 days
    after the world saw American Israeli
    hostage HH Goldberg pollen with his arm
    badly injured put in the back of a
    pickup truck and taken into
    Gaza the First Clear Proof he survived
    that deadly
    attack H sitting upright appearing under
    Jess with a shaven head and missing part
    of his left arm blown off on October 7th
    when terrorists threw grenades into a
    shelter when he was trying to evade
    capture hsh addressing the camera in
    Hebrew saying mom dad liby and oie I
    love you very much I miss you very much
    and I think of you every day that I’m
    here I need you to stay strong for me
    and not stop fighting HS also demanding
    the Israeli government do everything in
    its power to set him free his parents
    wanting the world to watch that video
    we’re relieved to see him alive or but
    we are also concerned about his health
    and wellbeing as well as that of all of
    the other hostages and all of those
    suffering in this region pers if you can
    hear this we heard your voice today for
    the first time in 201 days and if you
    can hear us I am telling you we are
    telling you we love you stay strong
    survive the video of HH spurring his
    supporters onto the streets protesters
    clashing with police overnight near
    Israeli Prime Minister netanyahu’s
    residence well protesters are out on the
    streets tonight in Jerusalem they’re
    blocking the road you can see the police
    are trying to drive them back these
    people want a deal to set the hostages
    free it’s thought around a 100 hostages
    are still being held in Gaza hsh one of
    five
    Americans and Diane a bit on the wider
    picture right now those hostage and
    ceasefire negotiations appear to have
    stalled and in fact the Israeli military
    has made Advanced preparations to try
    and move hundreds of thousands of
    civilians out of Rafa in southern Gaza
    with the Israeli government approving a
    ground offensive and what it says is
    hamas’s last stronghold there in the
    coming weeks Diane Tom Sufi burd in
    Jerusalem thank you coming up an
    exclusive look at the Francis Scot Key
    Bridge in Baltimore how cleanup efforts
    are going as the port partially reopens
    to ships
    today and it’s an unprecedented day in
    American history former president and
    current presidential candidate Trump
    faces four concurrent and consequential
    legal batt battles all centered on
    charges of corrupting elections Supreme
    Court Justices will be weighing the
    power of the presidency and you’ll be
    able to listen to the or oral arguments
    right here on ABC News live starting at
    10: a.m. eastern meanwhile Trump returns
    to a New York City courtroom for the
    criminal hush money trial against him we
    have Team coverage all morning long stay
    with
    us tonight the Supreme Court takes on
    the power of the presidency oral argu
    uments begin in Donald Trump’s bid for
    immunity plus tornado severe weather the
    10 states in the path more Americans
    turn to World News Tonight with David
    mure the most watched newscast on
    television this is the first time you
    are sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here he just been
    told you’re going to be 9 years in one
    of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
    woman killed at the very beginning of
    her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
    to God until years later when the real
    killer steps into the box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    D will match that
    seene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC this
    is not about parents who just let their
    kid watch violent movies play violent
    video games this is about parents who
    neglected their son ignored his cries
    for help then bought him a gun the first
    parents in America to be charged in a
    school shooting they purchased that gun
    for him and bragged about it you don’t
    get to walk away from that that’s a
    criminal act sins of the parents the
    crumbly trials the opposite of love is
    not hate it’s just being ignored only on
    Hulu hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina and
    we’re moms juggling tons of stuff every
    day like all you moms out there and you
    know what we love really love Pop
    Culture so listen now to our new podcast
    pop culture moms wherever you get your
    podcast
    [Music]
    welcome back to ABC News live it is an
    unprecedented day in American history
    former president Donald Trump is facing
    four concurrent and consequential legal
    battles all centered on charges of
    election corruption we have full
    coverage from DC to New York City just
    ahead but first here’s a look at some of
    the other headlines we’re watching today
    we’re getting an exclusive firsthand
    look at the massive operation to clear
    the wreckage from the Francis Scott Key
    bridge collaps officials in Baltimore
    say 80% of ships will be able to pass in
    and out of the port Port starting today
    including cruise ships the city says
    it’s on track to have the port fully
    reopened by the end of May and starting
    today it will cost you more to visit
    Venice the tourist hotspot is now the
    first and only city in the world to
    charge visitors an entrance fee the city
    says the $536 fee is designed to help
    control crowds in the Italian city about
    40,000 people visit Venice every day
    almost double the City’s
    population and football star Reggie Bush
    is uniting with his Heisman Trophy the
    former USC Superstar and Super Bowl
    champion won college football’s highest
    honor in 2005 but had to Forfeit it in
    2010 after the NCAA sanctioned the
    school claiming Bush received illegal
    benefits while he was a student bush has
    consistently denied those accusations
    the Heisman trust is reinstating Bush’s
    award and says it is thrilled to have
    him quote back in the
    family coming up it is now or never in
    Detroit the NFL draft is tonight we’re
    going to hear from Jaden Daniels
    expected to be a top pick ahead of the
    big night and where he’s rumored to be
    going and we have Team coverage of
    president Trump’s historic legal battles
    all morning long Supreme Court Justices
    will be weighing the power of the
    presidency and you can listen to those
    oral arguments right here on ABC News
    live starting at 10: a.m. eastern
    meanwhile Trump returns to the New York
    City courtroom in the criminal hush
    money trial against him who’s taking the
    stand today and what it all means for
    the former president stay with us
    [Music]
    this is the first time you are sitting
    down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts prer
    in Russia Wednesday night May 1st on ABC
    we have a beautiful young woman killed
    at the very beginning of her life what
    happens when the interrogation helps put
    the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
    around promise to God until years later
    when the real killer steps into the box
    the tough question here is what’s the
    chance your D will match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC can
    you believe it it’s 25 years of
    breakfast and bed surprising moms Across
    America oh my
    goodness oh my goodness and for our 25th
    anniversary we’re making it the biggest
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    before so go to good morning am.com or
    scan this QR code to find out how to
    enter a deserving mom you love for
    breakfast and
    bed tonight the Supreme Court takes on
    the power of the presidency oral
    arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
    for immunity plus tornado severe weather
    the 10 states in the pth more Americans
    turn to World News Tonight with David
    mure the most watched newscast on
    television hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
    and we’re moms juggling tons of stuff
    every day like all you moms out there
    and you know what we love really love
    Pop Culture so listen now to our new
    podcast pop culture moms wherever you
    get your
    podcasts I’m Jaclyn Lee here in Arizona
    on the front lines of the abortion
    battle wherever the story is we’ll take
    you there you’re streaming ABC News
    live welcome back to ABC News live first
    some dreams are about to come true in
    Detroit today when the NFL draft kicks
    off in the Motor City the Chicago Bears
    have the first pick and are expected to
    take USC’s Caleb Williams LSU
    quarterback Jaden Daniels is also at the
    top of the draft board will reev sat
    down with the Heisman winner and
    projected second pick ahead of the big
    night Jaden Daniels again Jaden Daniels
    touchdown Jaden Daniels is the oddson
    favorite to go number two in tonight’s
    NFL draft do you have in your mind and
    your heart as a team that you definitely
    want to go to I mean I kind of do can’t
    I’m not going to disclose that but kind
    of of do we all see what happens how it
    plays out the Washington Commander
    likely to take the Heisman winner out of
    LSU with the second overall pick my
    agent uh he’s hearing stuff from uh
    different teams and and like trying to
    predict where I go but nobody knows
    where you’re actually going to go until
    uh until it’s that time to actually get
    that call what’s the experience been
    like with the
    other draft class guys being here I’m
    happy for other quarterbacks here
    obviously me Caleb and Drake and be able
    to battle against see the guys that you
    battled against and be able to enjoy
    that experience with them um enjoy the
    moment of you know hearing your name
    call or being part of the drag class
    being in Detroit together um and connect
    with guys that you usually don’t you
    know see too much but but you know so
    it’s it’s awesome tomorrow morning
    you’re in the NFL yeah you got to go
    what are you going to be doing yeah
    going to the team um obviously doing all
    that and then flying back uh celebrating
    my family there and then I get to work
    wherever he’s drafted Daniels knows what
    he wants to accomplish as a pro
    hopefully I could be a an idol you know
    to to Young African-Americans that
    aspire to be a quarterback or just in
    general you know somebody look up to
    hopefully I can be a role model to them
    Daniels will have a whole big group with
    him here to celebrate tonight but two
    people he’ll be missing are his paternal
    grandparents who passed away within a
    month of each other from covid a few
    years ago and Daniel says that he misses
    them every day and that they’ll be with
    him here in spirit tonight and always
    Diane will reev in Detroit thank you and
    you can watch the first round of the NFL
    draft tonight at 8:00 pm Eastern on ABC
    and
    ESPN coming up testimony resumes in the
    criminal hush money trial against former
    president Trump as the Supreme Court is
    about to hear arguments in his case for
    presidential immunity we have Team
    coverage of both and we’ll have those
    oral arguments live at 10:00 a.m.
    eastern stay with us we’ll be right back
    what does it take to be the most watched
    newscast in
    America we are part of an operation is
    this our combat Operation Center we’re
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    made the USA great work hi appr thank
    it’s David David I’m David I know you
    are you every night World News Tonight
    with David mure is America’s most
    watched newscast this is the first time
    you are sitting down like this to tell
    your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC this is not about parents who
    just let their kid watch violent movies
    play violent video games this is about
    parents who neglected their son ignored
    his cries for help then bought him a gun
    the first parents in America to be
    charged in a school shooting they
    purchased that gun for him and bragged
    about it you don’t get to walk away from
    that that’s a criminal act sins of the
    parents the crumbly trials the opposite
    of Love Is not hate it’s just being
    ignored only on Hulu Sunday night people
    think they really know you what do you
    think of the biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special going start singing by the
    way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael Strahan John Bon Joi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    JY halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
    lot going on get another Avalanche
    warning that’s up to catch you up with
    what happened overnight a dangerous ice
    storm is impacting the morning Community
    what’s happening today escalating
    tensions in the Middle East what people
    are talking about the migrant crisis
    fast straightforward with some fun in
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    sounds good to me the Moose started
    chasing a dog first thing in the morning
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    [Music]
    live hi I’m D today on ABC News live
    first an unprecedented day in American
    history a former president and current
    presidential candidate faces four
    concurrent and consequential legal
    battles all centered on charges of
    corrupting elections the Supreme Court
    is set to hear arguments over whether
    presidents are immune to prosecution for
    crimes committed while in office the
    case could have major implications for
    the special council’s election
    interference case against former
    president Trump and overnight in Arizona
    Trump became unindicted co-conspirator
    number one in an election fraud case
    that has produced indictments for his
    former lawyer one of his current lawyers
    and his white house chief of staff Trump
    was also named an unindicted
    co-conspirator in a similar Michigan
    case yesterday and Trump returns to a
    Manhattan Criminal court today for his
    hush money trial over his alleged
    efforts to interfere in the 2016
    election we have Team coverage of
    Trump’s legal battles and what they
    could mean for the race for the White
    House and we begin with the Supreme
    Court set to hear these oral arguments
    over presidential immunity the issuing
    question is whether former president
    Trump should be immune from Criminal
    prosecution for his alleged efforts to
    overturn the 2020 election because he
    was president at the time Trump’s
    attorneys argue that the presidency
    can’t function if the president can face
    criminal charges claiming it would tie
    the hands of future presidents so far
    two lower courts have rejected those
    arguments warning it would collapse the
    system of separated Powers by putting a
    president Above the Law now the Supreme
    Court has to decide whether to overrule
    them let’s bring in senior National
    correspondent in ABC News live anchor
    Terry Moran for more on that Terry
    what’s at stake for former president
    Trump in today’s arguments well his his
    freedom at the end of the road of any
    criminal case which is what he faces the
    question question is can a president be
    prosecuted uh criminally for acts that
    he undertook while in office Trump says
    everything he did uh at the heart of
    this case which were his efforts to
    overturn the 2020 election were part of
    his official duties he says he was
    trying to ensure election integrity
    that’s his argument and his lawyers will
    be in court saying as long as the
    president is acting within the Outer
    Perimeter of His official duties he
    cannot be prosecuted no president can be
    prosecuted for the reason you exact said
    which is that they say it would render
    the president too weak always looking
    over his shoulder a potential
    prosecutions brought by partisan enemies
    and he wouldn’t be acting or she
    wouldn’t be acting in the full range of
    powers for the good of the country
    that’s the argument that Trump’s uh that
    Trump’s lawyers are going to make it’s
    going to be a hot bench in there there a
    bunch of people are going to Pepper
    these lawyers with questions on that
    because it is really a test of the
    boundaries of the the power of the
    president and the reach of the rule of
    law it is an unprecedented argument that
    I think the court is going to have
    trouble with Terry how do you expect the
    attorneys on each side to make their
    case here well very vigorously uh
    obviously as I said the the Trump
    lawyers better be ready for a lot of
    very skeptical questions this is an
    extraordinary claim they do have you
    know some grounding presidents do need
    freedom of of movement to act for the
    good of the country swiftly and fully
    and if they are concern about potential
    partisan prosecutions then that might
    crimp their ability to work for the
    people that will be their argument and
    they will point to things like perhaps
    President George W Bush’s enhanced
    interrogations which were called torture
    by some people a violation of American
    law President Obama ordering the killing
    of an American citizen under uh the
    authorization to use military force but
    without any uh without any due process
    of law so they do have grounds on the
    other hand the argument from from the
    justice department special counsel Jack
    Smith’s brought this case is going to be
    very simple presidents are not above the
    law if they commit a crime they can be
    prosecuted the world won’t come to an
    end not all presidents commit crimes uh
    and they will say that this is something
    that for the sake of separation of
    powers for the sake of the Integrity of
    the government the court must find that
    presidents are not above the law all
    right Terry Moran thank you and former
    president Trump’s allies have rallied to
    support his legal challenges uh saying
    that those challenges are threatening to
    derail his bid for the White House
    Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of
    Florida joins me now for more on that
    Congressman thank you for coming on we
    appreciate your time you know former
    president Trump’s attorneys are arguing
    the president has to have immunity for
    the office to function properly but
    these lower courts rejected that the DC
    circuit ruled that that would collapse
    the system of separated Powers by
    placing the president Beyond reach of
    the other three of the other branches
    why should the Supreme Court overturn
    that ruling you’re an attorney you’re
    backing Trump here walk me through why
    you think the presidential immunity part
    is more important than the separation of
    powers well first of all let me just say
    I’m not in all of the district circuit
    courts of the federal court system so
    the DC circuit is uh especially
    considering their conduct over the last
    couple of years is not evenhanded number
    two I think the key phrase is that when
    you’re dealing with the bounds of the
    powers of the presidency that’s very
    important during the 20 during 2020
    president Trump through his team was
    making sure that the laws were actually
    being Faithfully executed around how
    ballot ballots were being counted that
    is an official act so a a a president is
    does have a responsibility to do that
    number three if you look at the cases
    that are now being brought this is
    clearly coordinated by democrats at the
    upper ends of the Democrat Party who are
    now trying to criminalize the ability to
    actually go through the legal process of
    making sure that the ballots are counted
    appropriately that actual uh protocols
    in election processes and states are
    followed accurately and if that is now
    illegal uh then we have a much bigger
    problem because if this if the Supreme
    Court doesn’t Grant presidential
    immunity what you’re saying to President
    Biden is that because he did not follow
    border security law and Americans have
    died as a result then he could be
    brought up on criminal charges or the
    fact that President Biden has used his
    administration to limit and and and
    suppress the free speech of the American
    people during covid-19 then he could be
    brought up on criminal or civil charges
    as a result this is a major case about
    the powers of the presidency and if you
    look at what president Trump did during
    2020 his actions were through his office
    to make sure that election laws were
    Faithfully followed in the United States
    uh Congress man you’re talking about
    President Biden but if the Supreme Court
    rules that presidents are immune from
    prosecution that obviously would protect
    democratic presidents as well so are you
    concerned that President Biden could
    take advantage of that
    immunity no that’s not what I’m saying I
    think you’re you’re saying it the wrong
    way what I saying is is that there has
    to be some element that protects the
    President in their official duties
    whether we agree or disagree with the
    actions as long as they are within the
    official duties there has to be some
    protection for presidents when they
    leave office or they will constantly be
    looking over their shoulder and you
    cannot have a chief executive actually
    manage the duties of that office if
    they’re constantly worried about well
    when I leave office I’m going to be
    prosecuted by my political Rivals which
    by the way is exactly what is happening
    to president Trump that is why this is
    interfering in an election because his
    his his his presidential Rivals his
    political Rivals are actively trying to
    Criminal I him and prosecute him you
    cannot maintain the United States of
    America if you continue to go down this
    road presidents do have to have some
    semblance of protection when they leave
    office now uh Congressman former
    president Trump has now been identified
    as an unindicted co-conspirator in
    election interference cases in Arizona
    and Michigan as well what’s your
    reaction to that I think these these
    cases are a farce and a joke once again
    more uh election interference let’s also
    be very clear why did the Attorney
    General in Arizona wait to do this six
    months before an election because she
    wants to interfere with the election in
    Arizona why do this in Michigan because
    they want to interfere in the election
    in Michigan and I’ll say it again there
    is nothing illegal about a campaign
    deciding to challenge an election it
    happens all the time there’s nothing
    illegal about that what you have here is
    you have Democrat attorney generals who
    want to criminalize that behavior for
    political purposes to a broader
    perspective we get these arguments all
    the time about trying to protect the
    institutions of our country if you
    criminalize behavior that does allow
    candidates to challenge elections then
    you are actually leading to the
    destruction of our institutions you’re
    not protecting our institutions
    Congressman there are methods in place
    to do that and what they’re alleging is
    that Trump went beyond those legal
    methods and we of course will watch this
    play out in court and so your arguments
    will be heard there as well Republican
    Congressman Byron Donalds we appreciate
    your time today thank
    you meanwhile former president Trump
    [Music]
    says and former president Trump says he
    wanted to attend those Supreme Court
    oral arguments today but the judge in
    his Manhattan criminal trial has said he
    has to be in that courtroom former
    National inquire publisher David peek is
    expected to return to the stand and
    expand on his claims of a scheme to
    catch and kill negative stories about
    Trump during the 2016 election including
    former Playboy model Karen mcdougall’s
    story of an affair with Trump meanwhile
    Trump is now part of two more cases
    related to election interference as an
    unindicted co-conspirator ABC News
    executive editorial producer John santui
    joins me now along with ABC News legal
    contributor Brian buckmire for more John
    how significant is it that Trump is now
    named as an unindicted co-conspirator
    and two more cases related to election
    interference it’s not good right it just
    builds into this argument I mean you
    said it earlier all four of these
    criminal cases where Donald Trump is a
    name defendant all relate to election
    interference and look part of what
    prosecutors have said especially in this
    New York trial is that if Donald Trump
    crosses a line when he eventually takes
    the stand they could introduce evidence
    in some of the other cases that have
    already happened they’ve talked about e
    Carol about others keep in mind that
    though that case in haton is so much on
    the hush money payments involving Donald
    Trump and women it is excuse me it is an
    election interference case so at the end
    of the day talking about Donald Trump
    now in multiple States being a name
    defendant in one being Georgia and two
    others being an unindicted
    co-conspirator it just helps build
    Prosecutor’s case even firmer Diane I
    have to ask you especially coming out of
    that interview with Byron Donald does
    the sheer number of these cases feed
    into these claims that there are
    political motivations behind so you know
    listen I think that you know Byron
    Donald’s made the point that 6 months
    before an election you know is is not
    something just to Shar your shoulders at
    you know that is something that the
    Trump team is going to lean into an
    argument there for sure but part of what
    is going to be said is that it took time
    to go through these investigations it
    took a lot of people starting to
    cooperate and flip and think about the
    way if you read these indictments it
    talks about the number of people they
    spoke to that eventually
    after prosecutors pressured them because
    they had so much evidence on them those
    people started cooperating and providing
    more and more information look at
    Georgia as a great example right Georgia
    though there were originally 19 people
    indicted there were about 30 or so
    unindicted co-conspirators all of whom
    were brought in to speak to a special
    purpose grand jury originally to build
    out a case some of whom were brought
    back to the grand jury because of what
    they told prosecutors ultimately to
    indict it’s all the process uh Brian
    David pcker the former National inquire
    publisher is set to take the stand again
    today in the criminal hush money case
    he’s already uh talked about uh being
    part of a catch and kill scheme to kill
    negative stories about then candidate
    Trump and that that scheme came about
    during the Trump’s candidacy that it had
    never happened before uh dug’s alleged
    affair with former president Trump and
    his attempts to kill those stories what
    do you think prosecutors are looking to
    hear from him as he gets back on the
    stand so D I’m expecting that
    prosecutors will dive into more of the
    Caren McDougall but ultimately get into
    the heart of what this case is and that
    is the catch and kill scheme that
    surrounds stormy Daniel I think once you
    get past that we’re going to get into
    this intent to Def frud and they don’t
    know whether or not Donald Trump is
    ultimately going to take the stand to
    testify so the best way to get a
    Criminal defendant’s Intent or or their
    kind of men’s Ray or their mental state
    however you want to put it is to get the
    the words from the co-conspirators say
    all right pecker you you were there what
    did Donald Trump say why did he say he
    wanted to do this and even going back to
    your to your earlier interview yes some
    of these aspects might not be illegal to
    for example uh ensure that an election
    is is proper but when you have the
    requisite information that you know an
    election is proper that you know that
    you’re supposed to be properly
    documenting uh business records and you
    do it the incorrect way I’m sorry it
    doesn’t take an attorney to tell you
    this but that’s illegal John we’re
    talking about a here this case is going
    to center a lot on Donald Trump’s sex
    life what does that mean for him not
    just legally but in terms of his
    reputation having these stories now out
    there in the court of law well also with
    his family I mean one of the things that
    I’ve heard from many sources close to
    the former president is that some
    members of his family specifically his
    sons Eric Trump and Don Jr have offered
    to come and join their father in court
    because one of the things Donald Trump
    has said is that he doesn’t like being
    there and one of the things his
    attorneys have recognized is that to
    have people with him in the room that
    he’s familiar with will make this
    process a bit more comfortable however
    one observation from a source extremely
    close to the former president said to me
    look at the end of the day this is
    embarrassing he doesn’t want his kids
    there doesn’t want really anybody there
    to hear about his sex life and that is
    so much of what this case is about for
    him personally and you know we have to
    recognize you know David pcker is
    keeping it right now on the money of
    things Stormy Daniels when she takes the
    stand is going to talk about the money
    of things but we’re all here because of
    that one night so you got to imagine in
    some way shape or form that’s going to
    come up in court and the one thing that
    will be fascinating to see and watch and
    unfortunately there’s no cameras in New
    York Criminal Court body language what
    does Donald Trump do is she’s talking
    about that I mean the image of it alone
    and of course we’re also awaiting a
    ruling on whether the judge will hold
    former president Trump in contempt for
    alleged gag order violations we’ll be
    watching that case very closely John
    santui Brian buckmeier thank you both
    and again we’ll be following that story
    as well as those Supreme Court oral
    arguments all day long we’ll bring you
    the latest right here on ABC News live
    coming up the Nationwide movement on
    college campuses more than 100
    protesters arrested in Boston plus chaos
    in Texas California and New York what
    students are demanding and why they say
    they’re not backing down and it’s an
    unprecedented day in American history
    former president Trump current
    presidential candidate faces four
    current and consequential legal battles
    all centered on charges of corrupting
    election
    Supreme Court Justices will weigh in on
    the power of the presidency and you’ll
    be able to listen to the oral arguments
    in that case right here on ABC News live
    starting at 10: a.m. eastern meanwhile
    Trump returns to a New York City
    courtroom for the criminal hush money
    trial against him we have Team coverage
    all morning long stay with
    us this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story
    Britney are you ready you’ve been told
    to go through your bag and you felt felt
    the cartridge what were you thinking
    that moment when you felt that my life
    is over right here you’ve just been told
    you’re going to be 9 years in one of the
    worst prisons in
    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
    woman killed at the very beginning of
    her life what happened when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
    to God until years later when the real
    killer steps into the box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    Dame will match that on
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
    whenever news breaks we are here in
    Israel a nation at war after that br
    brutal surprise attack by Hamas on the
    ground in Ukraine reporting from Leon
    main the scene of a horrific mass
    shooting ABC News live is right there
    everywhere from the scene of that deadly
    missile strike in Dena
    Ukraine reporting from the earthquake in
    Turkey en rolling for this tornado tore
    through this little town from the most
    devastating disaster in Hawaii from
    Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
    campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
    traveling with the president in Mexico
    City wherever the story from the front
    lines from Southern Israel outside the
    Gaza Strip in be from the FBI reporting
    from the nurses on the picket line here
    at 10 Downing Street in London streaming
    live to you wherever the story is
    wherever the story is wherever the story
    is we’re going to take you there you’re
    streaming ABC News live ABC News live
    you’re streaming ABC News live ABC news
    live streaming free everywhere America’s
    number one streaming news
    welcome back to ABC News live it is an
    unprecedented day in American history
    former president Trump is facing four
    concurrent and consequential legal
    battles all centered on charges of
    election corruption we’ll have full
    coverage from DC to New York City just
    ahead but we are also monitoring the
    chaos around college campuses across the
    country law enforcement is cracking down
    on growing anti-war protests
    universities from New York City to
    Boston to Los Angeles and Austin Texas
    are seeing a wave of demonstrations amid
    the Israel Hamas War ABC’s Trevor alt is
    at the University of Southern California
    where police arrested more than 90
    protesters the Nationwide movement of
    Campus
    demonstrations leading to sometimes
    violent
    clashes overnight at Emerson College in
    Boston protesters attempting to form a
    human wall to stop police moving in up
    to a 100 protesters
    arrested police at the University of
    Southern California overnight arresting
    93 people while removing tents and
    clearing protesters from a Gaza solidary
    Camp one Precinct now full of Arrested
    protesters these tense moments after a
    scuffle between officers in riot gear
    and a pro Palestinian
    group University now closed to anyone
    but students it makes me feel threatened
    and intimidated and I think that the
    anti-semitic rhetoric must be condemned
    by the University an unauth
    protest breaking out at the University
    of Texas in Austin no what are you doing
    dozens arrested as officers used horses
    to disperse crowds some nearly crashing
    into oura vial who was on the scene a
    cameraman filming the demonstration
    grabbed by police and thrown to the
    ground similar encampments springing up
    at Brown University in
    [Applause]
    Harvard and at columia University
    officials extending a deadline to remove
    this large encampment to Thursday night
    as negotiations with students continue
    myself my peers my colleagues my friends
    we’re not going to stop we’re not going
    to rest we will stand here until the
    University divests from Israeli apar and
    their genocidal campaign in
    Gaza house Speaker Mike Johnson visiting
    campus criticizing school officials for
    allowing the continued demonstrations we
    just can’t allow this kind of hatred and
    anti-Semitism to flourish our campuses
    they have chased down Jewish students
    they have mocked them and reviled them
    they have shouted racial ep epithets the
    speaker telling our lindsy Davis schools
    could lose Federal funding they’ve
    encamped on the campus they are
    threatening people with their lives and
    they’re preventing them from we have
    breaking news now a former president
    Trump is speaking outside a Manhattan
    courtroom in his hush money trial let’s
    listen the GTV just announces all the
    way down to 1.6% and it’s heading south
    it’s going to give worse gas prices in
    California were just also announced of
    $760 gas is going way up energy costs
    are going way up and the stock market is
    uh in a sense crashing the numbers are
    very bad this is bomic it’s catching up
    with them it’s lucky that it’s catching
    up before he leaves office as opposed to
    after he leaves office but this is by
    nomics it’s D destroying our country at
    the border destroying our country with
    other countries they no longer respect
    the United States I think the dollar is
    in tremendous trouble in terms of
    currency this is going to be the
    standard and it’s going to be the
    standard with me with B you’re going to
    lose the dollar the standard that’ll be
    like losing the biggest war we’ve ever
    lost and it’s a shame but it’s uh all
    the way down to 1.6 and I’ll tell you
    nobody thought that would be possible
    and it looks like it’s heading down from
    from there so that’s very bad news this
    morning I met with great people
    construction workers some teamsters and
    other unions and some not in unions and
    we had a a fantastic morning you were
    there some of the Pres was there uh
    great show of support as you know some
    tremendous polls came out over the last
    24 hours where we’re up at all of these
    swing States and up nationally but one
    came out when we’re down very little in
    New York New York traditionally isn’t
    won by Republicans anymore it used to be
    50 years ago but not anymore and I think
    we have a good chance of winning New
    York we’re going to give it a big play
    we’re going to the South Bronx to do a
    rally we’re going to be doing a rally at
    Madison Square Garden we believe we
    think we’re signing Madison Square
    Garden to do it we’re going to have a
    big rally honoring the police and
    honoring the firemen and everybody
    honoring a lot of people including
    teachers by the way we’re honoring
    teachers because teachers have been very
    badly aligned with some very poor
    leadership but we’ll be honoring uh the
    people that make New York work and we’ll
    be doing a number of large rallies that
    it’ll be very exciting but we think we
    have a real good chance of winning New
    York and again the swing States we’re
    leading in every one of them and by a
    lot not just by a little by a lot but
    the big news today I think is the
    1.6% and when you look at 1.6 GDP that’s
    a number that nobody thought was
    possible that’s a real bad number and it
    looks like the projections are it’s
    heading in the wrong direction and
    that’s why the stock market’s down so
    big today so in the meantime I’m at this
    trial my constitutional rights have been
    taken away from me uh but every single
    expert every legal scholar every
    respected scholar has said this is no
    case there is no case here this is just
    a political Witch Hunt thank you very
    much are you feeling about Supreme cour
    argument are you the argum I think that
    the Supreme Court has a very uh
    important argument before today I would
    have loved to have been there but this
    judge would not allow that to happen I
    should be there but he wouldn’t allow it
    to happen I think he puts himself above
    the Supreme Court which is unfortunate
    isn’t it but the uh argument on immunity
    is very important a president has to
    have imunity this has nothing to do with
    me this has to do with a president in
    the future for a 100 years from now if
    you don’t have immunity you’re not going
    to do anything you’re going to become a
    ceremonial president you’re just going
    to be doing nothing you’re not going to
    take any of the risks both good and bad
    I mean you’re going to make some great
    decisions and save the country you’re
    going to make some decisions which
    you’re unfortunate but that’s the way it
    is but you’re not going to do anything
    if you don’t have immunity because
    otherwise you’re going to be prosecuted
    after you leave office or doing
    something like going into an area going
    into a country doing lots of things that
    you wouldn’t be doing and we don’t want
    a ceremonial President we have to have a
    real president and assuming you have the
    right person that can make a big
    difference you saw that for four years
    when I was President we were respected
    all over the world we had the best
    economy we’ve ever had everything was
    good we had no Wars we defeated Isis we
    had no Wars we had know nothing but we
    were respected all over the world and
    now it’s a it’s a disgrace we also by
    the way had the single best border ever
    in recorded history of our country we
    had the best border ever we built 571
    mil of wall we were going to build 200
    more miles far laugh at all over the
    world and you have riots at all the
    universities the only place that’s
    locked down is this Courthouse because
    they don’t want any supporters here they
    don’t want Maga here they don’t want
    anybody and this thing is locked down
    like a buttoned up vest and it should
    shouldn’t be if they did the same
    lockdown in Columbia NYU and the
    colleges and universities you’d have no
    problem whatsoever but there you can put
    tents up you can stay as long as you
    want but this courthouse is locked down
    there’s not a person within five blocks
    they have more police here than and I
    call them New York’s finest cuz that’s
    what they are and they don’t want to be
    doing this either they’d like to be
    straightening out conditions and they’d
    like to be at the colleges and making
    sure that they don’t have what’s
    happening cuz what’s happening at the
    colleges is a disgrace all over the
    world people are laughing at us this is
    the worst Run Country right now probably
    anywhere just about you don’t get much
    worse we have a president who’s a
    disaster we have a president who’s the
    worst president in the history of our
    country all you have to do is look at
    the millions of people coming in from
    prisons from mental institutions and
    terrorists they’re coming in at levels
    we’ve never seen before so I’m going to
    go in now and sit in front of a case
    election interference this is the way
    they think they’re going to get elected
    but I guess based on what I’m looking at
    it’s driving up my call a little not
    driving than
    you the charges in Mr President was last
    time do Bor work for you that’s former
    president Trump addressing the cameras
    before he enters the Manhattan courtroom
    in the criminal hush money trial against
    him the president touched on a number of
    issues from the economy to un arrest at
    universities across the country and of
    course the supreme court hearing oral
    arguments in another case uh brought uh
    with his attorneys today he wanted to be
    there at the Supreme Court but the
    Manhattan judge told him he had to be in
    that Manhattan courtroom I want to bring
    in our executive editorial producer John
    santui for more John a lot more of a
    campaign type speech today than we’ve
    heard from president Trump earlier in
    some of his other legal proceedings but
    he did also touch on on some of the
    legal stuff against him what sticks out
    to your a couple things and just
    actually something that was on footage
    just caught my eye but I’ll get to that
    in a second but first first time we’ve
    heard Donald Trump talk about the
    Supreme Court case any great length and
    really the first time throughout all of
    these hallway remarks he’s actually
    taken a question from a small pool of
    reporters that’s gathered outside of
    that court room on the 15th floor so
    Donald Trump’s saying that you know his
    belief about this case for the Supreme
    Court is that it’s not about him he
    claims it would impact other presidents
    to come because of any type of
    presidential immunity argument they
    would make and a little bit of what
    Terry Moran was talking to you about
    earlier is that you know could this have
    impacted actions George W bush took
    after 911 that’s going to be the
    argument from Team Trump in court today
    when they enter the Supreme Court it is
    though a reminder that Donald Trump here
    with this case this really is the last
    way to get him out of this one what I
    mean by that as you well know is that
    this started in the district court Trump
    made the argument his team and went to
    the Circuit Court in DC now it’s the
    Supreme Court that that would hear it if
    the Supreme Court says it goes back to
    the district court We Stand by judge
    Chuck and Immunity does not apply then
    that really does mean that trial could
    go forward and in theory that could mean
    at some point this summer we could see
    that case get going prosecutors have
    already said that because he was
    indicted this idea of 60 to 90 days that
    doj doesn’t prosecute anybody that is
    tied to an election is irrelevant
    because the charges were brought well
    before so that actually could be really
    quite interesting and I think just
    seeing Donald Trump turn around and
    speak about it when somebody asked you
    know that even though he’s in that
    courtroom in Manhattan today he wants to
    be at the Supreme Court but he’s very
    very closely watching that case the
    other thing that I just want to note for
    a second if you can is that we talk so
    often about the people that surround
    Donald Trump in these moments and I
    remember and I think you do too um after
    Donald Trump went down to Fulton County
    Georgia that he was next to Walt naada
    his most loyal the one that held the
    umbrella over his head as you’ll recall
    the image that I just saw going into
    court that just jumped out to me off the
    screen Boris Epstein who was just
    indicted last night by the Arizona State
    Attorney General as far as I am recall
    and I’m checking with our team he has
    not been any of these proceedings so far
    but the fact that he’s there today less
    than 24 hours he was just indicted in a
    matter related to the former president
    it does just show this small team of
    trump AIDS and allies that have been
    around him and are clearly loyal to a
    fault and to think just learning after
    you’ve been indicted on criminal charges
    for things you did for Donald Trump and
    you’re right there it just talks about
    that Bond it’s it’s really just a
    striking image to see it for me yeah and
    then we saw the president turn and head
    into the courtroom former National
    acquir publisher David pecker is heading
    back to the stand today in that hush
    money trial against the former president
    what are you watching for there so I
    think today is going to be fascinating
    because we’re actually going to start to
    get further into the timeline that
    matters and what I mean by that is you
    know think of it almost like a roller
    coaster ride right we’ve been going up
    we started to learn about everything
    with you know some of the smaller
    stories $330,000 to a door man didn’t go
    anywhere we started to get to Karen
    McDougall started to get into the real
    crunch time of the campaign today I
    think that roller coaster is going to go
    right off the cliff in the sense that
    we’re going to start to speed up here
    and you know one of the things that
    David peer touched on a little bit was
    the intensity at which he was talking to
    Michael Cohen as they got further into
    the election because these stories were
    coming to light pecker was trying to
    catch them and kill them bury them so
    they wouldn’t impact Donald Trump’s
    election and we know based on the
    timeline Karen McDougall was in the June
    July is area of 2016 that means if we’re
    starting to move the timeline into that
    area Diane very quickly we’re going to
    progress to the fall when we know that
    is when Stormy Daniels was eventually
    paid off and John while this is
    happening we’re also awaiting a ruling
    from that same judge on whether he will
    hold former president Trump in contempt
    for alleged gag order violations what’s
    the latest on that well I think it’s
    actually interesting think about Donald
    Trump outside of court today I mean you
    and I were were talking in real time as
    just saying what he’s focusing on he
    talked about the Dow Jones he talked
    about the election he mentioned at one
    point he wants to hold a rally at
    Madison Square Garden because he thinks
    New York could somehow in his mind flip
    red he’s not talking about the case and
    I think that plays into the fact that
    his team and others have recognized
    these 10 violations that prosecutors
    cited Court earlier this week he has to
    take them seriously those were all posts
    that were based on postings on Truth
    social but we know prosecutors flagged a
    potential 11th violation comments he
    made about Michael Cohen at that very
    camera outside of court so I do think
    Donald Trump knows or has been at least
    advised you need to rein this in because
    if this does come down it could not be
    good for us now let’s be clear there are
    one of three things that could happen
    judge gives him a warning nothing judge
    gives a financial penalty which we know
    prosecutors have said for each violation
    they want $1,000 or the third is some
    type of temporary confinement in jail
    and though we would never think that’s
    possible we know from our teams
    reporting as we discussed earlier this
    week that the secret service has had
    conversations with NYPD and Court
    officials that if the judge decided to
    do that is that possible how would it
    happen the fact that those conversations
    have happened alone whether they happen
    or not just goes to the heart that this
    is really really really serious all
    right John santui thank you and now I
    want to go to the Supreme Court those
    oral arguments that the Court is set to
    hear over presidential immunity the
    issue in question is whether former
    president Trump should be immune from
    Criminal prosecution for his alleged
    efforts to overthrown the 2020 election
    because he was president at the time
    Trump’s attorneys argue the presidency
    can’t function if the president can face
    criminal charges claiming it would tie
    the hands of future presidents so far
    two lower courts have rejected their
    arguments warning it would collapse the
    system of separated Powers by putting a
    president Above the Law now the Supreme
    Court has to decide whether or not to
    overrule them let’s bring a national
    senior National correspondent ABC News
    live anchor Terry Moran along with Chief
    Justice correspondent Pier Thomas and
    ABC News Supreme Court contributor Kate
    Shaw for more on that Pier what’s at
    stake for former president Trump today
    well at the heart of it is whether these
    trials particularly the one regarding
    January 6th can go forward also so you
    have the classified documents cases
    unfolding in a case down in Florida uh
    what this means is the fundamental
    question that you put forward a moment
    ago can a president while he’s in office
    do whatever he wishes to do with
    impunity with no fear that he could be
    prosecuted when he left office uh doj
    the special counsel is saying no that
    cannot be and uh former president Trump
    is making the case that you know he
    should have great latitude uh to do what
    he needs to do and that this affects
    other presidents going
    forward so Terry how do you expect the
    attorneys to make their arguments today
    to try to persuade the
    justices well vigorously obviously with
    all their might and and with for the
    Trump team they they are making this
    extraordinary and unprecedented argument
    that presidents should have absolute
    immunity from any criminal prosecution
    for anything that could be described as
    an official act while they’re president
    it it really is an extraordinary
    argument and they may have trouble with
    it I mean I might expect a hot bench uh
    in this case but their basic argument is
    that that presidents need this immunity
    from Criminal prosecution in order to
    act fully freely swiftly efficiently in
    the best interest of the country so that
    they aren’t always worried always
    looking over their shoulder could this
    result at some future date in a criminal
    prosecution of me personally by my
    political enemies or or that kind of
    thing and so they believe that the
    constitution contemplates in its
    authorizing a president of the United
    States this kind of immunity they’re
    going to run into a lot of tough
    questions and not just from the Liberals
    because it is such a sweeping claim uh
    on the other hand the special council’s
    argument the Justice Department’s
    argument is pretty straightforward
    presidents are not above the law if they
    commit crimes they can be tried the
    world won’t come to an end uh and that
    this is something that the Constitution
    and our laws and Society can easily
    accomplish I think that that’s the basic
    argument that you’re going to hear in
    court today Kate the lower courts
    rejected Trump’s arguments so far so
    what will it take for the Supreme Court
    to overturn those
    rulings you know I do think the lower
    courts decisively and unanimously so far
    rejected this really aggressive argument
    that former president Trump is making
    that this never before recognized
    absolute immunity from Criminal
    prosecution is necessary for the
    president to be able to effectively uh
    conduct his office keep the president
    safe uh Keep the Country safe act as the
    commander-in-chief all of these really
    policy grounded arguments are really
    what uh Trump’s team is offering to the
    Supreme Court and on the other side the
    special Council has arguments that
    really sound in constitutional structure
    we were never supposed to have a King a
    president is subject to law even if a
    king is not and also just historically
    uh no president has ever understood
    themselves to stand outside of the reach
    of the criminal law um and you know the
    sky hasn’t fallen presidents have been
    able to do their jobs just fine I mean
    one historical example that I think is
    important here is that when Richard
    Nixon left office he received a full
    pardon from Gerald Ford when Ford became
    president and it was understood that a
    pardon was necessary because otherwise
    Nixon would have been subject to
    criminal charge and prosecution so
    everyone has understood historically
    that these uh you know charges were a
    possibility if presidents violated the
    law and so it really is an uphill
    argument for Trump to make and I expect
    it to be uphill there may be some
    sympathy from some you know some of the
    conservative justices um but but I do
    expect real skepticism from most if not
    all of the bench and to my mind the real
    question is how quickly the justices
    resolve this case because of course that
    has everything to do with whether a
    trial could realistically occur so Pier
    what could this ruling mean for the
    special council’s election interference
    case against the former president well
    everything I mean at the end of the day
    these are uh among the most
    consequential cases that the justice
    department has ever brought period it
    involves you know inditing a former
    president who is actually seeking office
    uh in a current very hot election cycle
    so that is the issue and I think what
    the special counsel will be looking for
    most today is any hint from the justices
    uh as to whether there’s any kind of
    guard rails that they want to create for
    example many of the legal Scholars and I
    think Terry and uh Kate might agree with
    this don’t believe that any president
    has you know car blanch to have total
    immunity but will the court somehow
    suggest are there categ ories uh and uh
    that should be excluded and did the
    justice department and the special
    counsel apply the law correctly are
    these statutes that they’re uh bringing
    these charges against the president are
    are they the appropriate kind of charges
    that should be brought uh in a case like
    this all right Kate Shaw Pierre Thomas
    Terry Moran thank you and let’s bring in
    former Secretary of the army Louis
    Caldera for more on this secretary
    Calder you have been in the room for
    some major presidential decisions so
    what sort of process is there when it
    comes to those kinds of decisions does
    the potential for criminal charges play
    a role when a president is deciding some
    of these
    things the uh the possibility of
    criminal prosecution uh has never been
    used against the president or even
    considered as they made these decisions
    about things in the National Security
    interest and I should note that when you
    have those kinds of discussions there
    are a lot of lawyers involved White
    House Council Council for the justice
    department Council for the intelligence
    agencies the defense
    department those people to the extent
    that there are gray a decisions there
    are lawyers in good faith trying to say
    how do we do what we need to do but
    consistent with the law and the fact
    that there you have so many advisers and
    lawyers involved in the process would
    make it incredibly hard to ever bring
    such a claim so it’s not like the
    president sitting there and just has to
    pick up the phone and make snap
    decisions and doesn’t have the ability
    to uh consider consult with anyone and
    so this is what’s so worrisome
    presidents have made and have never you
    know we we believe this argument that
    that uh president former president Trump
    is making is ahistorical there have been
    many many controversial decisions made
    by presidents throughout our nation’s
    history no one has ever sought to
    prosecute them and I think that’s for
    several reasons one is that we believe
    the president is acting in the best
    interest of the nation
    two that they have all this support from
    lawyers that would be impossible to for
    for someone to come back and say you
    knowingly intentionally violated the law
    almost impossible to make out such a
    case and three no Administration wants
    to waste its time going after its
    predecessors they say let history judge
    my predecessor I have to use my time and
    energy to try to get my program passed
    and we wor we worry about the National
    Security implications of creating this
    exception where the president can
    violate the law and then order the
    military to execute his unlawful orders
    military members who’ve also swor an
    oath to the Constitution and to uphold
    the rule of law who can themselves be
    prosecuted if they take unlawful action
    and that this will destroy the trust
    that has to exist between civilians and
    military leaders in our Department of
    Defense it will undermine support for
    our national security among the American
    public if the military is used for
    political purposes and against the
    American people to try to do things like
    wash demonstrations of people exercising
    their first amendment rights and that it
    sends a wrong message to the rest of the
    world that we’re no longer uh a country
    that stands behind the rule of law that
    stands behind the principles of
    democracy that no one is above the
    criminal law and I worry that if the
    Supreme Court creates this even tries to
    create a very narrow exception between
    official duties and person personal gain
    that you’re going to have uh individuals
    like former president Trump who sees
    everything he does as in the National
    interest even if it’s
    99.9% personal gain he’ll say there was
    that 1% of my mind that was really
    thinking about the nation and it becomes
    an exception that could that could
    swallow the whole Rule and then we don’t
    want to be litigating these things in
    the future we don’t want to empower
    presidents of any party to be able to
    willfully violate criminal laws all
    right secretary Lewis Caldera we
    appreciate your time today thank
    you and we have breaking news disgraced
    Hollywood Mogul Harvey Weinstein’s New
    York conviction for felony sex crimes
    has just been overturned by the state
    court of appeals the court rules that
    the judge made an error when allowing
    other sexual assault victims of Harvey
    Weinstein to testify in that case the
    decision leaves open the possibility
    that district attorney Alvin Bragg could
    indict Weinstein again on the same
    charges so that ruling does not mean
    Weinstein will walk free he’s currently
    serving time in a New York prison but he
    will be transferred to the custody of
    prison authorities in California where
    he was also convicted on a rape and
    sexual assault charges and sentence
    there a spokesperson for Weinstein tells
    ABC news we are happily surprised and we
    are studying the
    ruling coming up the Nationwide movement
    on college campuses more than 100
    protesters arrested in Boston plus chaos
    in Texas California and New York what
    students are demanding and why they say
    they’re not backing
    down and testimony resumes in the
    criminal hush money trial against former
    president Trump as the Supreme Court is
    about to hear oral arguments in his case
    for presidential immunity we have Team
    coverage and we will have those oral
    arguments live at 10: a.m. eastern stay
    with
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    Sunday night on ABC tonight the Supreme
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    welcome back to ABC News live first law
    enforcement is cracking down on growing
    anti-war protests on college campuses
    across the country universities from New
    York City to Boston to Los Angeles and
    Austin Texas are seeing a wave of
    demonstrations amid the Israel Hamas War
    ABC’s Trevor Al joins me now from the
    campus of USC in Los Angeles along with
    Austin affiliate kvu reporter Eric
    pointer for more on this Trevor more
    than 90 protesters were arrested at USC
    overnight what’s the latest on that and
    what has it been like on campus over the
    last few
    days yeah Diane I think it’s been
    similar on a lot of college campuses
    what we’ve been watching is a pretty
    consistent escalation both in the number
    of demonstrators and also in their
    actions in their Civil Disobedience even
    going as far as setting up encampments
    and then that is being met with a larger
    response from the authorities to the
    point that it can result in some pretty
    tense clashes and we saw that a few
    different times yesterday here at USC
    these demonstrations effectively shut
    down the campus where even today while
    the demonstrat are now gone any student
    faculty staff here has to show a campus
    ID to even be allowed here on campus
    having said that these demonstrators
    while a lot of them have been arrested
    close to a hundred of them uh their
    resolve is still steadfast and I think
    it’s very likely we’re going to see even
    more demonstrations possibly even larger
    than we have seen before and quite
    frankly I don’t think that we’ve seen
    any demonstration across the country
    that in response to police saying they
    need to go home said well the police are
    right and we’re going to stop I think
    what you’re going to see is continued
    escalation like what we’ve already been
    watching over the past couple weeks uh
    now protesters say they’re asking for
    these institutions to divest from Israel
    what are you hearing from
    demonstrators that’s part of it there’s
    also here at USC specifically they are
    still upset at the University for
    preventing the valedictorian from giving
    her speech at the graduation ceremony
    that’s a Muslim student she’s been very
    outspoken in support of Gaza against the
    actions of the Israeli government and
    the Israeli military USC had said that
    they weren’t going to allow her to speak
    uh as an act of uh campus safety that it
    would that it was necessary in order to
    keep everyone at the graduation ceremony
    safe these demonstrators are very
    against that but there also this is much
    more of a large scale movement too I
    don’t think if they the USC was simply
    going to allow the valedictorian to
    speak that you would see the
    demonstration stop they are explicitly
    speaking out about what is happening in
    Gaza and the actions of Israel and its
    military and its government at large
    here too so it’s both for the University
    specifically but it’s also about the
    entire movement campus wide D now Eric
    you’re at the Travis County Jail where
    some protesters who were arrested there
    last night are now being released what
    are they telling
    you so we’ve seen a handful of people
    who have been released so far and
    they’ve been greeted by a pretty large
    crowd most of whom have been here all
    night now they will applaud and cheer
    when people are getting released and
    this morning we’ve seen a lot of
    reunions we saw a family that was
    waiting for their after sleeping in
    their cars all night here at the jail
    and a boyfriend who was reunited with
    his girlfriend she was arrested at the
    protest she was not a student but she
    was there Kaden Casper her boyfriend
    actually shared video of her arrest and
    we were here when she was released
    around 5:00 this morning and she
    described what happened to
    her I turned around to make sure the
    people behind me were okay and I wasn’t
    stepping on them that’s when they
    grabbed me by the back of the hair with
    a fist full of my hair to the scalp and
    dragged me to the ground
    after that I did not resist
    arrest now she said that she heard about
    the protest that morning but didn’t go
    to it right away she was walking past
    campus later and she saw that it was
    still going on so then she decided to
    join and she said it was about 20
    minutes after she joined that she was
    arrested and like I can tell you from
    what we’re seeing we’ve got some cheers
    going on right now people are still
    trickling out a lot of the ones that
    we’ve spoke to said that they were
    charged with criminal trespass but some
    say that charges have since been
    dropped all right Trevor alt Eric
    pointer thank you
    both and it’s an unprecedented day in
    American history former president and
    current presidential candidate Trump
    faces four concurrent and consequential
    legal battles all centered on charges of
    corrupting elections Trump is back in a
    New York City courtroom for the criminal
    hush money trial against him and Supreme
    Court Justices will be weighing the
    power of the presidency you will be able
    to listen to those oral arguments right
    here on ABC News live starting at 10:
    a.m. eastern we have Team coverage all
    morning long stay with
    us Sunday night people think they really
    know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture’s going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you
    Michael
    Michael Strahan John bonjovi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC this is the first time you are
    sitting down like this to tell your
    story Britney are you ready you’ve been
    told to go through your bag and you felt
    felt the cartridge what were you
    thinking that moment when you felt that
    my life is over right here you’ve just
    been told you’re going to be 9 years in
    one of the worst prisons in
    Russia Britney gliner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
    woman killed at the very beginning of
    her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around promise
    to God until years later when the real
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    question here is what’s the chance your
    D will match that scene
    we have your DNA at the scene what did
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    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
    tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
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    begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
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    there you’re streaming ABC News
    live welcome back former president Trump
    is in a Manhattan courtroom right now
    for the criminal hush money trial
    against him as testimony resumes with
    former National inquir publisher David
    pecker taking the stand let’s bring in
    ABC News executive editorial producer
    John santui attorney and former
    prosecutor Emily Bradford for more John
    I I understand you’re getting some new
    details about this potential gag order
    violation against former president Trump
    what’s happening there so what’s
    interesting is that we’ve been waiting
    on a ruling from the judge on the gag
    order violations the 10 that were
    presented Plus one other outside of
    Court even before the day got started
    started today prosecutors introduced
    what they say were four more violations
    by Donald Trump in just the last couple
    of days now what’s fascinating is that
    some of the violations were social media
    post another was outside of Court two of
    them though fascinating were regarding
    media interviews Donald Trump did
    promoting and talking about um a US
    Senate candidate and his own race
    leading up to the Pennsylvania
    Republican primary which was was on
    Tuesday Diane and one of those interview
    was with ABC’s affiliate wpv and the
    quote that Donald Trump gave him just
    pulling up from our colleagues here it
    was quote well Michael Cohen is
    convicted liar and he’s got no
    credibility whatsoever he goes on then
    talk about David pecker in this
    interview with wpv and says David pecker
    I don’t know exactly what he’s going to
    be testifying about or about or but
    he’ll be testifying at some point today
    the point is of both of those stat more
    so the Cohen statement than the pecker
    but nevertheless Donald Trump in this
    gag order cannot talk about Witnesses
    Diane he did it so Emily what does this
    mean for the judge’s decision the the
    judge was still waiting we’re still
    waiting on a ruling on whether he
    violated these 10 gag order uh
    violations that the prosecution
    presented just the other day so what
    happens now that the prosecution is
    suggesting even more gag order
    violations does the judge now have to
    take these all into account or could he
    issue a decision on one and then the
    other what are you watching
    for well he could handle it in a number
    of ways I think this just comp this
    definitely complicates judge maran’s job
    and I’m sure he’d rather not be dealing
    with these issues at all um he could
    deal with the first violations
    separately and address these separately
    probably I think it would make the most
    sense to deal with them all together in
    a lot of ways this um distracts from and
    slows down uh the momentum of the trial
    I think you know Jud judge Maran is in a
    tough position um and because he is he’s
    basically faced with as we’ve discussed
    the option of well you could you could
    hold Donald Trump in criminal contempt
    and have him confined for some period of
    time um that that seems really unlikely
    and um highly disruptive and uh it’s
    kind of hard to imagine that happening
    on the other hand um you know he doesn’t
    have a lot that he can do right so if he
    he can issue these fines of you know
    $1,000 per infraction but for Donald
    Trump I mean that’s sort of the
    equivalent of okay put a quarter in the
    wear jar right is that really a
    deterrent um and does that really
    accomplish
    anything all right John santui Emily
    Bradford thank you both we will be
    following this story and those Supreme
    Court oral arguments all day long stay
    right here on ABC News live we will
    bring you updates as we get them we’ll
    be right back
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    to me the move started chasing a dog
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    presidency Supreme Court Showdown here
    now Diane
    meedo good morning everyone history is
    about to be made in our nation’s capital
    as the Supreme Court is set to hear
    arguments over presidential immunity and
    former president Trump the issuing
    question is whether the former president
    has immunity from Criminal prosecution
    for his alleged efforts to overturn the
    results of the 2020 election because he
    was president at the time the case could
    have sweeping ramifications in special
    counsel Jack Smith’s case against the
    former president and also sweeping
    ramifications for precedent in general
    let’s bring in ABC News senior National
    correspondent Terry Moran outside the
    Supreme Court also professor at the
    University of Pennsylvania Carrie Law
    School and ABC’s legal contributor Kate
    Shaw and chief justice correspondent
    Pierre Thomas as well as political
    director Ric kleene those oral arguments
    are starting now let’s listen making
    precisely when bold and fearless action
    is most
    needed every current president will face
    de facto blackmail and extortion by his
    political Rivals while he is still in
    office the implications of the Court’s
    decision here extend far beyond the
    facts of this case
    could President George W bush have been
    sent to prison for obstructing an
    official proceeding or allegedly uh
    lying to Congress to induce war in
    Iraq could President Obama be charged
    with murder for killing US citizens
    abroad by drone
    strike could President Biden someday be
    charged with uh unlawfully inducing
    immigrants to enter the country
    illegally for his border
    policies the answer to all these
    questions is no Prosecuting the
    president for his official acts is an
    innovation with no foothold in history
    or tradition and incompatible with our
    constitutional
    structure the original meaning of the
    executive vesting Clause the framer
    understanding and intent an unbroken
    historical tradition spanning 200 years
    and policy considerations rooted in the
    separation of powers all Council against
    it I welcome the Court’s
    questions um Mr s to your last Point
    could you be more precise as to the
    source of this immunity the source of
    the immunity is principally rooted in
    the uh executive vesting Clause of
    Article 2 Section one and how does that
    happen uh that that the source of it
    justice Thomas I think is as you
    described in your separate opinion in
    covi for example that the executive
    vesting Clause does not include only
    executive powers laid out explicitly
    therein but encompasses all the powers
    that were originally understood to be
    included therein and butk against
    Madison itself provides strong evidence
    this kind of immunity a broad principle
    of immunity that protects the
    president’s official acts from scrutiny
    direct sitting in judgment so to speak
    of the article three courts that that
    matches the original understanding of
    the executive how how exactly would we
    determine uh uh what the what an
    official Act is uh I said I point the
    court to two cases for that obviously
    Fitz cheral against uh uh Nixon is is
    the best guidance that the Court gives
    where the court adopted the Outer
    Perimeter test and this court engaged in
    analys analysis there that’s very
    instructive here where it looked at the
    level of specificity the indictment what
    if you have um let’s say the official
    Act is appointing ambassadors and the
    President appoints a particular
    individual to a country uh but it’s in
    exchange for a bribe somebody says I’ll
    give you a million dollars if I made the
    ambassador to whatever how do you
    analyze that that I think would fall
    under this Court’s uh discussion in
    Brewster where the Court held with
    respect to legislative acts that bribery
    is not an official act which also
    matches the court common law background
    so I the way that this court and
    Brewster kind of sliced at the Joint was
    to say accepting the bribe and the
    agreement to sex the bribe are not
    official acts that’s private conduct or
    an appointment would not be would be
    essentially an unrestrict power of this
    court that Congress couldn’t directly
    regulate it’s not accepting the bribe
    isn’t an official act but appointing an
    ambassador is certainly within the
    official respon responsibilities of the
    president so how could you how how does
    your official Acts or the official
    acts border boundary um uh come into
    play when it’s going to be official uh
    assuming that the president is Innocent
    but the whole question is whether he’s
    going to be uh found innocent or guilty
    uh again I think Brewster and Johnson uh
    do address that or very persuasively at
    least in a slightly different context
    Brewster and Johnson say the indictment
    has to be expon of all the immune
    official acts so there has to be
    determination what’s official what’s not
    official you expunge the official you
    say okay we’re Prosecuting you because
    you accepted a million dollars they’re
    supposed to say not say what it’s for
    because the what’s for part is within
    the uh president’s official duties uh
    there has to be we would say independent
    source of evidence for that and keep in
    mind that this indictment charges what
    this court has described as unrestrict
    powers of the president so the premise
    The Logical premise of this indictment
    is that Congress by passing vag and
    general criminal statutes has purported
    to directly regulate the president’s
    exercise of things like the exercise of
    the employment and removal power uh
    things like his ability to speak
    directly to the American public core
    exercises of his authority under the
    recommendations Clause to recommend to
    Congress members of Congress the
    measures he thinks necessary and
    expedient so you have a indictment in
    this case that goes right to the
    heartland of the president’s powers that
    alleges a whole series of official acts
    and tries to tie them together by saying
    well there’s a private aim or a private
    purpose in that case and that’s a
    situation which of course could be
    alleged in virtually any indictment
    Council it can be alleged but it has to
    be
    proven mum in say is a concept long um
    viewed as appropriate in law that there
    are some things that are so
    fundamentally evil that they have to be
    protected
    against now I
    think and and your uh answer uh below
    I’m going to give you a chance to say if
    you stay by it if the president
    decides that his
    rival is a corrupt
    person and he orders the military or
    order someone to assassinate him is that
    within His official acts that for which
    he can get immunity it would depend on
    the hypothetical but we can see that
    could well be an official act they could
    and why because he’s doing it for
    personal reasons he’s not doing
    it at like President Obama is alleged to
    have done it to protect the country from
    a terrorist he’s doing it for personal
    gain and isn’t that the nature of the
    allegations here that he’s not doing
    them doing these acts in
    furtherance of an
    official responsibility he’s doing it
    for personal gain I I agree with
    characterization of the indictment and
    that confirms immunity because the
    characterization is that there’s a
    series of official acts that were done
    for an because immunity says even if you
    did it for personal gain we won’t hold
    you
    responsible what do you how could that
    be that’s an extremely strong Doctrine
    in this Court’s case law and cases like
    Fitzgerald well we go back to Justice
    Thomas’s question which was where does
    that come from
    there are M here who tell us that the
    founders actually talked about whether
    to Grant immunity to the president and
    in fact they had had state constitutions
    that granted some criminal immunity to
    Governors and yet they didn’t take it up
    instead they F they pass an impeachment
    Clause that basically says you can’t
    remove the president from from office
    except by a uh trial in the Senate but
    you can impeach him
    after so or you can impose criminal
    liability we would be
    creating a situation in which we would
    be saying is this is what you’re asking
    us to
    say which is that a president is
    entitled not to make a
    mistake but more than that a pre
    president is entitled for to to personal
    gain to use the trappings of his
    office that’s what you’re trying to get
    us to
    hold without facing criminal liability
    your honor I would say three things in
    response to that first the doctrine that
    immunity does not turn on the allegedly
    improper motivation or purpose is
    something that this court has reaffirmed
    in at least nine or 10 that’s absolute
    immunity but qualified immunity does say
    that whatever act you take has to be
    within what a reasonable person would do
    I’m having a hard time
    thinking that creating false documents
    that submitting false documents that
    ordering the assassination of arrival
    that accepting a bribe and countless
    other laws that could be broken for
    personal gain that anyone would say that
    it would be reasonable for a president
    or any public official to do do that
    your honor as this court said very
    persuasively in Fitzgerald the the
    allegation that this particular act
    would be done for an unlawful purpose or
    was unlawful could be made in every case
    and therefore if that were the doctrine
    that the allegation of improper purpose
    is what deprives the objective acts of
    their immunity then the immunity would
    have no purchase and that’s reflected in
    many of the other courts cases isn’t
    isn’t the work though of the improper
    motive
    uh at least in the absolute immunity
    context to tell us what are official
    acts and what are not I mean IID
    understood that even in the ab first of
    all your ask is absolute immunity isn’t
    it principal position that’s your your
    your position is you want the same kind
    of doctrine that we’ve applied in other
    contexts when we say an official has
    absolute immunity um and my
    understanding is that when we say that
    we mean for their official acts is that
    right yes we okay so any official act so
    that then in that world the real
    decision making from the court
    standpoint is whether or not something
    is an official act or not correct uh
    that is an important determination by
    all means I mean that’s the
    determination in the absolute immunity
    world because if you determine that it’s
    an official act then the principle is
    that you get immunity for it correct
    that is correct all right so my question
    and I think the Chief Justice may have
    asked this at the beginning is how do
    you determine what or maybe Justice
    Thomas how do you determine what is an
    official act and when we’re talking
    about the kinds of scenarios that
    Justice Sodor brought up one could say
    that when the president is using the
    trappings of his office to achieve a
    personal uh uh gain then he’s actually
    not acting officially even if the
    doctrine was absolute immunity so what
    do you say about that two things in
    response to that first to the last point
    that allegation that this was really
    motivated by an improper private purpose
    could be made every single case no I
    understand that but but but it would
    have to be made I’m I’m just trying to
    assess even if we had the doctrine of
    absolute immunity that same allegation
    and the facts related to it would come
    in because the person would be arguing
    that he was not acting in His official
    capacity he wasn’t doing something
    official he was doing it personal
    correct the I agree the the objective or
    I’m not sure I agree but but but the
    point I would make for the response to
    that is in Fitzgerald against Nixon this
    court emphasized that that would result
    in an intrusive uh discussion or
    determination of the president’s
    personal motives for every official act
    and again this is not just in the case
    of the president all right can I just
    ask you another another quick question
    uh before my colleagues take it over
    here um at the beginning of your
    analysis when you were giving your
    opening statements you were talking
    about um you know the you suggested that
    the lack of immunity and the possibility
    of prosecution in the presidential
    context is like an innovation um and I
    understood it to be the status quo I
    mean I understood that every president
    from the beginning of time essentially
    um has understood that there was a
    threat of prosecution if for no other
    reason than the the Constitution
    suggests that they can be prosecuted
    after impeachment um that uh you know
    the office of legal council has said
    forever that presidents are amable to a
    threat of prosecution and they have
    continued to function and do their jobs
    and do all the things that presidents do
    so it seems to me that you are asking
    now for a change in what the law is
    related to immunity I would quote from
    what Benjamin Franklin said at the
    Constitutional Convention which I think
    reflects best the founders original
    understanding and intent here which is
    at the Constitutional Convention
    Benjamin Franklin said history provides
    one example only of a chief magistrate
    who is subject to public Justice
    Criminal prosecution and everybody cried
    out against that as no I understand but
    since Benjamin Franklin everybody has
    thought including the presidents who’ve
    held the office that they were taking
    this office subject to potential
    criminal prosecution no I don’t I see
    the opposite I see all the evidence
    going the other way Marberry against
    Madison Mississippi against Johnson
    discussed this broad immunity principle
    that naturally what was up with the
    pardon what was up with the pardon for
    President Nixon I think if everybody
    thought that presidents couldn’t be
    prosecuted then what what was that about
    well he was under investigation for both
    private and public conduct at at the
    time official acts and private conduct I
    think everyone has properly understood
    that the president since like President
    Grant’s Carriage writing incident
    everyone has understood that the
    president could be prosecuted counc on
    on that score you there does seem to be
    some common ground between the you and
    your colleague on the other side that no
    man’s Above the Law and that the
    president can be prosecuted after he
    leaves office for his private conduct is
    that right we agree with that and then
    the question becomes as we’ve been
    exploring here today A little bit about
    how to segregate private from official
    conduct that may or may not uh enjoy
    some immunity and we I’m sure we’re
    going to spend a lot of time exploring
    that but uh the DC circuit in blazing
    game chief judge um there joined by the
    panel expressed some views about how to
    segregate private conduct for which no
    man is above the law from official Acts
    do you have any thoughts about the test
    that they came up with there yes we
    think in the main that test especially
    if it’s understood through the lens of
    Judge cates’s separate opinion is a very
    persuasive test it would be a great
    source for this court to rely on in
    drawing this line and it emphasizes the
    breadth of that test it talks about how
    uh uh actions that are you know
    plausibly connected to the president’s
    official Duties are official acts and it
    also emphasizes that if it’s a close
    case or it appears there’s
    considerations on other side that also
    should be treated as immune those are
    the the aspects of that that we’d
    emphasize as potentially guiding the
    cour that left open in that case the
    possibility of further proceedings and
    trial exactly right and that would be a
    very natural course for this court to
    take in this place the court can and
    should reverse the categorical holding
    of the DC circuit that there’s no such
    thing as official acts especially when
    it comes to but you’d agree further
    proceedings would be required that is
    correct there would have to be and I
    would point the court to Anderson
    against kraton where the court said
    there’d be kind of two stages of these
    further proceedings there’s looking at
    the indictment itself or in that case it
    was a you know a complaint but look at
    the charging document itself and see
    whether on the face of it this is
    alleging official acts and if not or it
    can’t be determined then there’d be a
    factual proceeding and all that under
    Mitchell against foresight and so forth
    would have to occur before any other
    proceedings in the district
    Mr go ahead Mr s you began by explaining
    why you believe that uh immunity from
    Criminal process prosecution is
    essential for the proper functioning of
    the
    presidency uh but my question is whether
    the very robust form of immunity that
    you’re advocating is really necessary in
    order to achieve that result so just to
    take one possible alternative suppose
    the rule were that a former president
    cannot be prosecuted for official acts
    unless no plausible justification Could
    Be Imagined for uh what the president
    did taking into account history and
    legal precedent and the information that
    was provided to the president at the
    time when the Act was taken would that
    be sufficient or if it is insufficient
    why would it be insufficient that might
    be a much better rule than what emerged
    in the lower courts here we think it
    would be insufficient because again that
    long line of cases talking about using
    the president’s motives and the
    intrusive sort of consideration of the
    president’s motives as transforming acts
    to official and unofficial uh uh would
    be would come into play and of course
    once you can make that allegation all of
    a sudden you’ve opened the door you no
    longer have a per se clear bright rine
    rule you have a a determination in every
    single case what if it were not what if
    it did not involve any subjective
    element it was purely objective you
    would look objectively at the various
    relevant factors that sounds to me a lot
    like blazing game and especially view to
    the lens of Judge cat’s a separate
    opinion and that may not be different
    than what we’re proposing to the court
    today well blazing game had to do with
    the difference between official conduct
    and private conduct right that’s correct
    I sorry I understood the court to be
    asking that no this this would apply and
    just a possibility I don’t know whether
    it’s a good idea or a bad idea or
    whether it can be derived from the
    structure of the Constitution or the
    vesting clause or any other
    Source but this would be applied in a
    purely objective on Purely objective
    grounds when the president invokes an
    official power in taking the action that
    is that issue yes I believe the reason I
    think of Blazing game is because it
    talks about an objective context
    specific determination to winnow out
    what’s official and what is purely
    private conduct and again in with a
    strong degree of deference to what I’m
    sorry I if I understood Justice Leo he
    suggest in not that he’s suggesting
    whether even if it is an official
    act whether you still Grant immunity if
    that act is not
    plausibly viewed as within the
    realm of
    law a he can correct me if I’m wrong no
    that’s that that was the question that I
    think would be a superior rule than what
    than the categorical denial that emerged
    in the trial court here I do think it
    would not I’m not quite sure why he used
    the word plausible because that seems
    to negate
    um might as well give absolute if you’re
    saying plausible because anybody could
    argue
    plausibility we don’t even require
    plausible we require reasonable in
    qualified immunity so well I mean one
    might argue that it isn’t plausibly
    legal to order SEAL Team Six and I I I I
    don’t want to slander SEAL Team Six
    because they’re no seriously they’re
    honorable they’re honorable uh officers
    and they are bound by the uniform code
    of military Justice not to obey unlawful
    orders but no I think one could say that
    it’s not plausible that that is legal
    that that action would be legal and and
    I’m sure you thought I’ve thought of
    lots of hypotheticals I’m sure you
    thought of lots of hypotheticals where
    president could say I’m using an
    official power and yet the president
    uses it in an absolutely outrageous
    manner uh that if or an objective
    determination May well be a uh uh an
    interesting uh approach to take this so
    apply it to the allegations here what is
    plausible about the
    president assisting in
    creating a uh a fraudulent sleep of
    electoral candidates ass assuming you
    accept the facts of the complaint on
    their
    face um is that plausible that that
    would be within his right to do
    absolutely RoR we have the historical
    President we SED in the lower courts of
    President Grant sending federal troops
    to Louisiana and Mississippi in 1876 to
    make sure that the Republican electors
    got certified in those two cases which
    delivered the election to Ruther for be
    Hayes uh the notion that is completely
    implausible I just can’t be supported
    based on the face of this indictment or
    even knowing slate is fake knowing that
    the Slate is fake that they weren’t
    actually elected that they weren’t
    certified by the state he knows all
    those things the indictment itself
    alleges I I dispute that
    characterization the the indictment
    fixes the word label to the so-called
    fraudulent lectures it fixes the word
    fraudulent but that’s a complete
    mischaracterization on the face of the
    indictment it appears that there was no
    deceit about who had emerged from the
    relevant State conventions and this was
    being done as an alternative basis but I
    want to address a more higher level
    point a fundamental point which is that
    uh uh as Justice Al alito’s question
    indicated there’s a whole series of
    structural checks other than criminal
    prosecution that are designed to deter
    these kind of you know outlandish
    scenarios are extraordinarily obviously
    illegal things and that’s been viewed in
    this Court’s opinions going all the way
    back to at least Mar do you think the DC
    circuit went wrong in how it determined
    what was official versus what’s personal
    well I read I read the opinion Below in
    this particular case as adopting a
    categorical view it does not matter is
    the the logic of their their opinion
    because there is no immunity for
    official acts and therefore uh uh you
    know that’s the end of the story I don’t
    really think they went wrong in blazing
    game in the Civil context when they
    engage in the same uh determination with
    respect to what’s official and what
    isn’t official there we agree with most
    of what that opinion say and for some
    official acts that are not within the
    Article 2 exclusive p power so official
    acts but not within the Article 2
    exclusive power uh even for those I
    assume you would think that a clear
    statement has to be uh required a clear
    statement in the statute covering the
    president if the president’s official
    acts are going to be criminalized
    absolutely obviously the issue is you
    know at the highest possible level when
    it comes to the unrestrict powers like
    as in this indictment the well I’m
    assuming the exclusive powers Are Walled
    off uh and can’t be prosecuted before
    there’s a lot of official powers that
    are not exclusive to the president under
    his Article 2 Authority uh but for those
    I understood you to be saying at a
    minimum there would need to be a clear
    statement in the statute referencing the
    president so that the president’s on
    notice uh and can um conduct himself or
    herself accordingly that’s absolutely
    correct and that’d be consistent both
    with Franklin and public citizen in
    cases along series of other clear State
    can I follow up on ask you um go ahead
    go ahead so you concede that private
    acts don’t get immunity we do okay so in
    the special council’s brief on pages 46
    and 47 he urges us even if we assume
    that there’s even if we were to decide
    or assume that there was some sort of
    immunity for official acts that there
    were sufficient private acts in the
    indictment for the trial to go for the
    case to go back in the trial to begin
    immediately and I want to know if you
    agree or disagree about the
    characterization of these acts is
    private um petitioner turned to a
    private attorney was willing to spread
    knowingly false claims of election fraud
    to spearhead his challenges to the
    election results private as out I mean
    we dispute the allegation but that
    sounds private to me sounds private
    petitioner conspired with another
    private attorney who caused the filing
    in court of a verification signed by
    petitioner that contained false
    allegations to support a challenge that
    also sounds private three private actors
    to attorneys including those mentioned
    above and a political consultant helped
    Implement a plan to submit fraud slates
    of presidential electors to obstruct the
    certification proceeding and petitioner
    and a co-conspirator attorney directed
    that effort uh you read it quickly I
    believe that’s private I don’t want to
    so those acts you would not dispute
    those were private and you wouldn’t
    raise a claim that they were official as
    characterize what we would say your
    honor if I may what we would say as
    official is things like meeting with the
    Department of Justice to deliberate
    about who’s going to be the acting
    Attorney General of the United States
    communicating with the American public
    communicating with Congress about
    matters of enormous fa concern thank you
    uh thank you Council and what is the
    consequence in terms of going forward
    with your uh acknowledgement that those
    are private acts as opposed to official
    acts if you look at the uh if you look
    at the uh uh the indictment here there’s
    a bunch of Acts that we think are just
    clearly official there may be
    allegations that mostly relate to what
    the government has described here as
    private aim or private end and the court
    should remand or or address itself but
    remand for a Brewster likee
    determination which is what’s official
    and what’s private the official stuff
    has to be expunged completely from the
    indictment before the case can go
    forward and there has to be a
    determination at least on remand of
    what’s official two-stage determination
    of what’s official and what’s private
    well if you expunge the official part
    from the indictment how do you I mean
    that’s like a a one-legged stool right I
    mean giving somebody money isn’t bribery
    unless you get something in exchange and
    if what you get in exchange is to become
    the ambassador to a particular country
    uh that is official the appointment
    that’s within the president prerogatives
    The Unofficial part is I’m going to get
    a million dollars for it so if you say
    you have to expunge uh the official part
    how does that go forward uh this
    particular D we say virtually all the
    over conduct is official we don’t
    believe it would be able to go forward I
    mean there could be a case where it
    would but if you look at even the
    government’s brief in this case divides
    up the indictment into things that other
    than the uh
    elector allegations don’t
    really are they haven’t disputed that
    they are official acts but what they do
    is say well we tie it all together by
    characterizing it as done and these are
    the allegations that uh the court just
    referred to by an improper private aim
    or private end again that’s their words
    and that just runs loggerheads you know
    Dead Set against this Court’s case law
    say you don’t look at with immunity
    determinations the the the motive
    improper motivation or purpose thank you
    justice
    Thomas uh Mr s uh in assessing the uh uh
    official Act Act of a president do you
    differentiate between President acting
    as president and the president acting as
    candidate yes we do and we don’t dispute
    essentially the Blazing game discussion
    of that okay of course that has to be
    done by objective determinations not by
    looking at what was the purpose of what
    you did this that’s the most important
    point there uh did you uh uh in this
    litigation challenge the appointment of
    special counsel not directly we have
    done so in the southern district of
    Florida a case and we totally agree with
    the analysis provided by attorney
    general me and attorney general mukey
    and and it points to a very important
    issue here because one of their
    arguments is of course that uh uh you
    know we should have this presumption of
    regularity that runs into the reality
    that we have here an extraordinary
    prosecutorial power being exed by
    someone who was never uh uh uh nominated
    by the president or or or confirmed by
    the Senate at any time so uh we agree
    with that position we we we hadn’t
    raised it yet in this case when this
    case went up on
    appeal Justice Alo when you say that the
    official act should be expunged from the
    indictment that in itself would not
    achieve very much
    unless uh evidence of those official
    Acts were precluded at trial so is that
    what you’re saying that the prosecution
    should not be permitted at trial to
    prove the official acts as part of the
    conspiracies that are alleged absolutely
    and we think that’s just the clear
    implications of Brewster and John and
    their discussion is very in a very
    analogous context thank you just I’m a
    little bit confused by that um if you
    have a scheme to defraud um or a scheme
    to accept bribery there’s evidence from
    which you can infer that scheme and one
    of it is that the appointment actually
    happened it’s an official act you
    wouldn’t expunge that as evidence you
    would instruct the jury that there’s no
    liability for the actual appointment
    that the liability is for accepting the
    bribe similarly here I don’t think the
    indictment is charging that the
    obstruction um occurred solely because
    of conversations with the justice
    department they’re saying you look at
    all of the private acts and you look in
    the context of some of the public acts
    and you can infer
    the intent the private
    intent from them so I’m not sure that I
    understand why your problems couldn’t be
    taken care of at trial with an
    instruction if we believed if the court
    were to find I’m not even sure how they
    could but if it were to find that some
    public acts could not be the basis of
    criminal
    liability I think the best thing I can
    say to that uh uh is is and I think this
    ties into the chief Justice’s question
    about a one-legged stool Brewster and
    Johnson in subsequent cases like Kowski
    versus meaner essentially say that that
    this is a one-legged stool problem it
    will be difficult for some of these
    prosecutions to proceed and that is the
    implications of official immunity which
    is dictated in the Constitution here by
    the executive besting
    Clause Justice Kagan can I continue on
    in in Justice Barrett’s vein a little
    bit and ask you about some of the
    allegations of the indictment and
    whether their official acts are not in
    your view so um the defendant signed a
    verification affirming false election
    fraud allegations made on his behalf and
    a lawsuit filed in his name against the
    Georgia government Governor uh I don’t
    think we’ve disputed that that’s
    official I I’m sorry that that is
    unofficial that that’s unofficial same
    for the defendant called the chairwoman
    of the Republican National Committee
    asked her to gather electors in targeted
    States falsely represented to her that
    such votes would be used only if ongoing
    litigation in one of the states changed
    the results in the defendant’s favor we
    have taken the position that that is
    official that’s official yes why would
    that be official because the
    organization of alternate slates of
    electors is for based on for example the
    historical uh uh example of President
    Grant is something that was done
    pursuant to and ancillary and
    Preparatory to the exercise of the core
    recommendation Clause power so when
    President Trump could couldn’t he have
    taken this action just in the status of
    a candidate the fact that he could have
    done so doesn’t demonstrate that he did
    do so in this case and based on the
    allegations we think it’s clear he did
    not that this was done in an official
    capacity the defendant asked the Arizona
    House speaker to call the legislature
    into session to hold a hearing based on
    their claims of election fraud
    absolutely an official act for the
    president to communicate with State
    officials on a matter of enormous
    Federal interest and concern attempting
    to defend the uh uh the Integrity of a
    federal election to communicate with
    State officials and urge them to view
    what he views as their job uh uh under
    state law and federal law that’s an
    official act well attempting to defend
    the Integrity of the election I mean
    that’s the defense the allegation is
    that he was attempting to
    overthrow an election essentially
    exactly right and neither allegation of
    what the purpose is should make it
    determinate should make a difference as
    to whether it’s immune that is extremely
    strong precedent from this court does it
    um does it strike you as a that your
    understanding of uh immunity goes Way
    Beyond what olc has ever claimed for the
    a former president I view the olc
    opinions here as strongly supporting us
    because anytime a congressional statute
    basically got anywhere near touching the
    president’s prerogatives they’ve said oh
    we’re going to interpret the statute
    narrowly to avoid that well that’s a
    different question I mean uh what olc
    has always said is that sitting
    presidents get immunity but former
    presidents no now there might be
    um uh a different argument made about
    whether a statute or whether a statute
    as applied to particular conduct uh is
    is is uh properly um uh available
    against the president but that’s a very
    different argument than the immunity
    claim that you’re making here which olc
    has definitively not supported I don’t I
    don’t know if I put it that way I don’t
    recall an opinion directly addressing it
    but more fundamental to us your honor is
    in fact the language of like Marbury and
    statements like made by Benjamin
    Franklin at the Constitutional
    Convention statements of George
    Washington talking about the massive
    risk of factional strife and how that
    could destroy the Republic and erect a
    new government on the ruins of public
    Liberty that’s what we rely on
    principally here I cite the olc opinions
    because of course what you see there is
    a very strong Trend that if there’s any
    statute that might trench in any way on
    the president’s prerogatives which they
    they adop they interpret it to avoid
    that um
    if a president sells nuclear secrets to
    a foreign adversary is that immune that
    sounds like similar to the bribery
    example likely not immune now if it’s
    structured as an official act he would
    have to be impeached and convicted first
    before what does that mean if it’s
    structured as an official act well I
    don’t know in the hypothetical whether
    or not that would be an official act you
    probably have to have more details to
    apply the Blazing game uh analysis or
    even the Fitzgerald analysis that we’ve
    been talking about how about if a
    president um orders the military to
    Stage a
    coup I think that as the Chief Justice
    pointed out earlier where there is a
    whole series of you know sort
    of guidelines against that so to speak
    like the UCMJ prohibits the military
    from following a plain F unlawful act if
    one adopted Justice Alo test that would
    fall outside now if one adopts for
    example the Fitzgerald test that we
    Advanced that might well be an official
    act and he would have to be as I’ll say
    in response to all these kinds of
    hypotheticals uh has to be impeached and
    convicted before he can be criminally
    prosecuted but I emphasize to the court
    that well he’s gone let’s say this
    president who ordered the military to
    Stage a coup he’s no longer president he
    wasn’t impeached he couldn’t be
    impeached um but but he ordered the
    military to Stage a coup and you’re
    saying that’s an official act uh I think
    it would depend on immune I think it
    would depend on the circumstances
    whether it was an official act if it
    were an official act again he would have
    to be imp what does that mean depend on
    the circumstances he was the president
    he um uh is the commanderin-chief um he
    talks to his generals all the time and
    he told the generals I don’t feel like
    leaving office I want to Stage Jak coup
    is is is that immune if if it’s an
    official act there needs to be
    impeachment and conviction beforehand
    because the framers viewed the RI that
    that kind of it’s an official Act is it
    an official act if it’s an official act
    it’s Impe it in official on on the way
    you described that hypothetical it could
    well be I I just don’t know you’d have
    to again it’s a fact specific context
    specific determination that answer
    sounds to me as though it’s like yeah
    under my test it’s an official act but
    that sure sounds bad doesn’t it well it
    certainly sounds very bad and that’s why
    the framers have and that’s why the
    framers have a whole series of
    structural checks that have successfully
    for the last 234 years prevented that
    very kind of extreme hypothetical and
    that is the wisdom of the framers what
    they viewed as the risk that needed to
    be guarded against was not the F the
    notion that the president might Escape
    you have a criminal prosecution for
    something you know sort of very very
    unlikely in these unlikely scenarios
    they viewed much more likely and much
    more destructive to The Republic the
    risk of factional strife discussed by
    George Washington frers did not put an
    Immunity Clause into the Constitution
    they knew how to there were immunity
    Clauses in some state constitutions they
    knew how to give legislative immunity
    they didn’t provide immunity to the
    president and you know not so surprising
    they were reacting against a monarch who
    claimed to be above the law wasn’t the
    point that the president was not a
    monarch and the president was not
    supposed to be above the law uh I would
    say two things in response to that uh
    immunity they did put an Immunity Clause
    in in a sense they put in the executive
    vesting clause which was originally
    understood to have to adopt a broad
    immunity principle that’s set forth in
    the very broad language of Marbury
    against Madison and also they did
    discuss and consider what would be the
    checks on the presidency and they did
    not say oh we need to have criminal
    prosecution right there at the con
    convention Benjamin Franken says we
    don’t have that that’s not an option
    everybody cried out against that as
    unconstitutional the structural check
    we’re adopting his impeachment and it’s
    very clear on that in Pages 64 to 69 of
    the second volume of faren thank you
    justice Gorsuch just returning to the
    chief Justice’s hypothetical about the
    Ambassador sale uh and bribery um
    Congress has a statute that specifically
    names the president and says he can be
    um
    uh criminally prosecuted for bribery
    presumably after he leaves office um
    outside the core areas that that Justice
    Kavanaugh was talking about when
    Congress speaks clearly couldn’t a
    statute like that Congress provide a
    statute like that that would allow all
    manner of evidence to come in to prove
    the case I think our position is that
    would have to be an unofficial act
    purely private conduct for that
    prosecution to go forward all right but
    but outside the core areas of executive
    power if there is a clear statement from
    Congress that something is unlawful and
    it applies to the president I’m
    struggling to see why in that case
    perhaps uh the evidence could come in
    yeah the strongest possible case in our
    view is what you’ve described as kind of
    the core executive powers the unrestrict
    powers within the meaning of CA law but
    again the holding of for example
    Brewster and Johnson that we’ve relied
    on doesn’t turn on how Central it is of
    a legislative act it just as if it’s an
    official act which here we would say is
    applies basically the Outer Perimeter
    test of Fitzgerald against Nixon that
    doesn’t come in what would happen if if
    presidents were under uh fear fear that
    their successors would criminally
    prosecute them for their acts in office
    whether it’s whether they’re engaged in
    drone stri all the hypotheticals I’m not
    going to go through them um it seems to
    me like one of the incentives that might
    be created is for presidents to try to
    Pardon themselves do you have any
    thoughts about that that is uh think of
    that until your honor asset that is
    certainly one incentive that might be
    creative what we think is most important
    we’ve never answered whether a president
    can do that um happily it’s never been
    presented to us and if if the doctrine
    of immunity remains in place that’s
    likely to remain the case uh for those
    very issues as Fitzgerald I think very
    powerfully emphasized the real concern
    here is they’re going to be bold and
    fearless action is the president going
    to have to make a controversial decision
    where his political opponents are going
    to come after him the minute he leaves
    office is that going to unduly deter is
    that going to dampen the ardor of that
    president to do what our constitutional
    structure demands of him or her which is
    bold and fearless action in the face of
    controversy and perhaps if he feels he
    has to he’ll pardon himself every every
    four years from now on but that as the
    court pointed out wouldn’t provide the
    security because the legality of that
    that is something that’s never been
    addressed now one of the checks and
    balances in addition to um impeachment
    that you’ve discussed is subordinate
    liability um you don’t contest that
    everybody following an unlawful order
    beneath the president of the United
    States can be immediately prosecuted do
    you I’m sorry the cour is asking whether
    they could if the president gives an
    unlawful order uh calling the troops
    what all the examples we’ve
    heard every subordinate beneath him
    faces criminal prosecution don’t they uh
    that is what Governor Morris said
    explicitly at the Constitutional
    Convention that his co- agitators could
    be prosecuted there is an important
    caveat because of course there would
    have to be a uh a statute that would
    govern that for them to be prosecuted
    we’ got lots of statutes the criminal
    law books are are replete but I mean do
    you agree is that one check that’s
    available absolutely and again the only
    caveat that I was making is if that
    statute was doing what Marbury says you
    can’t do which is going after the
    subordinates to restrict for example a
    core executive function the Franklin
    clear statement rule might be triggered
    and you might not be able to go after
    that President so I don’t think Congress
    can say well we can’t go after the
    president directly but we’re going to
    criminalize the way that the president
    speaks to Congress under the exercise of
    the recommendations clause and therefore
    we’re going to put in a criminal statute
    that says if you provide false
    information to Congress in carrying out
    the president’s recommendation Powers
    you you can be immediately prosecuted
    that would least be a very difficult
    question but the fundamental point of
    drawing that distinction between the
    president himself and his co- agitators
    in the word of Governor Morris the
    Constitutional Convention is an
    excellent
    distinction Justice Kavanaugh just
    follow up on the olc opinions question
    uh as you read them and I think I read
    them they articulate a clear statement
    rule as to this Court’s cases uh for
    covering official acts and your point I
    think but I just want to underscore for
    this is that none of the statutes
    alleged here or cited here have a clear
    statement covering the president
    therefore meaning that the president uh
    can’t be charged for any official acts
    under this under these statutes that’s
    absolutely correct they’re extended Way
    Beyond I mean this that’s separate from
    the question what’s official versus
    what’s personal but for that bucket that
    is official there’s no clear statement
    period that’s right and as to purely
    private conduct we don’t think that
    clear statement rule would be invoked
    but as to official acts uh these
    statutes the ones charged in the
    indictment are just way far a field from
    purporting to criminal eyes in clear
    terms uh the president’s official acts
    and then um you’re just to clarify this
    the the president’s not above the law
    the president’s not a king the founders
    thought that um I think your point in
    response to that is the president is
    subject to prosecution for all personal
    acts just like every other American for
    personal acts the question is
    acts taken in official capacity that’s
    correct and even those of course if
    there was impeachment and conviction
    could be prosecuted on our view and we’d
    emphasized a whole series of structural
    checks in addition to that uh uh uh
    which deter those kind and have
    successfully deterred presidential Mis
    fees for 234 years then on the source of
    immunity it’s not explicit in the
    Constitution but also uh executive
    privilege is not explicit in the
    Constitution yet in United States versus
    Nixon the court unanimously said
    that the Article 2 executive power in
    the Constitution encompassed executive
    privilege and the same principle
    presumably would apply to Executive
    immunity being encompassed within that
    executive power is historically
    understood that’s absolutely correct and
    there’s a very telling passage in free
    enterprise fund where this court talked
    about how there’s a letter from James
    Madison to Thomas Jefferson at the time
    of the founding where Madison said hey
    the S removal power they did not
    expressly take this away so the 7 9
    Congress understood that it was left in
    place so if the original understanding
    of the executive investing Clause is
    Broad enough to Encompass that it would
    have to be expressly taken away which is
    the opposite of the presumption that
    they’re advancing here and then lastly I
    think you’ve acknowledged in response to
    others questions that some of the acts
    in the indictment are private and your
    view is that some are official is it
    your position then that that analysis of
    which is which should be undertaken in
    the first instance by the DC circuit or
    the district court most likely the
    district court under the logic of
    Anderson thank you justice
    Barrett so Mr SAU you’ve argued that the
    impeachment Clause suggests or requires
    impeachment to be a gateway to criminal
    prosecution right yes I think that’s the
    plain meaning of that second phrase in
    the Clause okay so there are many other
    people who are subject to impeachment
    including the nine sitting on this bench
    and I don’t think anyone has ever
    suggested that impeachment would have to
    be the gateway to criminal prosecution
    for any of the many other officers
    subject to impeachment so why is the
    president different when the impeachment
    Clause doesn’t say so someone very
    important has made the opposite
    suggestion as to the president himself
    which is solicitor general bour which is
    reformed in the olc opinions on this
    where the where solic General bour in
    1973 as to the issue of the vice
    president reviewed the historical
    materials and he said the sequence is
    mandatory only as to the president that
    is doj’s view of the original
    understanding of the impeachment
    judgment clause which is exactly our
    position the sequence is mandatory only
    as to the president keep in mind that
    the criminal prosecution of a president
    president prior to impeachment
    contradicts in our view the plain
    language of the Constitution but also
    hundreds of years of history and what
    doj admits is the framer’s intent and so
    we say that that practice whatever its
    validity should not be extended to this
    novel context where it clashes with the
    Constitutional if criminal conduct isn’t
    discovered until after the president is
    out of office so there was no
    opportunity for impeachment we say the
    framers assumed the risk that of under
    enforcement by adopting these very
    structural checks as Justice Scalia said
    in Morrison against Olsen the separation
    of powers uh uh prevents us from writing
    every wrong but it does so that we do
    not lose Liberty okay and and the
    special Council makes uh a point that I
    think is a pretty compelling one you
    admit that if the president were
    successfully impeached that he could be
    criminally prosecuted after impeachment
    right yeah assuming the prosecution was
    for the same conduct of which he was
    convicted not impeached he must be
    convicted that word conviction is right
    there in the Clause okay granted um but
    you also say that these criminal
    statutes unless they explicitly mention
    the president don’t apply to him so how
    can you say that he would be subject to
    prosecution after impeachment while at
    the same time saying that he’s exempt
    from these criminal statutes well there
    are statutes as they concede were
    president Congress has pered to two or
    three they haven’t done a comprehensive
    review I think this looks like all they
    did was Tech search for president in 18
    us code again under Franklin that’s a
    very telling indication that the word
    president is not in the statute is it
    necessarily a a a magic word requirement
    so to speak but more fundamentally than
    that more fundamentally than that they
    can see there are statutes that exist in
    addition to that much impeachment could
    occur as a result of private conduct so
    the impeachment judgment Clause does do
    significant work by authorizing the
    subsequent prosecution of a president
    there because what the framers if you
    look at what they’re discussing in the
    thing is in the Constitutional
    Convention is principally concerns about
    private conduct which of course we can
    see or not immune okay so just to pick
    up justice kagan’s example of a
    president who orders a coup let’s
    imagine that he is impeached and
    convicted for ordering that coup and
    let’s just accept for the sake of
    argument your position that that was
    official conduct you’re saying that he
    couldn’t be prosecuted for that even
    after conviction and an impeachment
    proceeding if there was not a statute
    that expressly
    referenced the president and made it
    criminal for the president there would
    have to be a a statute that made a clear
    statement that Congress purported to
    regulate the president’s conduct okay
    thank you justice Jackson so I think I
    Now understand better your position um
    in in your discussions with Justice
    Kavanaugh became clear that you are
    saying that for the private acts of a
    president there’s no immunity but for
    the official acts of the president there
    is immunity is that your position I
    agree with that all right um so one
    thing that occurs to me is that this
    sort of difficult line drawing problem
    that we’re having with all of these
    hypotheticals is this a private act or a
    Public Act um is being necessitated by
    that assumption because of course if
    official acts didn’t get absolute
    immunity then it would matter we
    wouldn’t have to identify which are
    private and which are public correct
    that in fact is the approach of the DC
    circuit there’s no determination that
    needs to be made but I’m just I’m just
    making so to the extent we’re worried
    about like how do we figure out whether
    it’s private or public we have to we
    have to understand that we’re only doing
    that because of an underlying assumption
    that the public acts get immunity so let
    me explore that assumption um why is it
    as a matter of theory and I’m hoping you
    can sort of Zoom way out here that the
    president um would not be required to
    follow the law when he is Prof
    performing his official acts everyone
    else everyone else there are lots of
    folks who have very uh high-powered jobs
    who make a lot of consequential
    decisions and they do so against the
    backdrop of potential criminal
    prosecution if they should uh break the
    law in that um capacity and we
    understand and we know as a matter of
    fact that the president of United States
    has the best lawyers in the world when
    he’s making a decision he can consult
    with pretty much anybody as to whether
    or not this thing is criminal or not so
    why would we have a situation in which
    we would say that the President should
    be making official acts without any uh
    responsibility for following the law I
    respectfully disagree with that
    characterization the president
    absolutely does have responsibility he
    absolutely is required to follow the law
    in all of his official acts but the
    remedy for that is the question could he
    be subject to personal vulnerability
    sent to prison for making a bad decision
    after he leaves office but but other
    people who have consequential jobs and
    who are required to follow the law make
    those determinations against the
    backdrop of that same kind of risk so
    what is it about the president um I mean
    I’ve heard you say it’s because the
    president has to be able to act boldly
    do you know make kind of consequential
    decisions I mean sure but again there
    are lots of people who have to make life
    and death kinds of decisions and yet
    they still have to follow the law and if
    they don’t they could be sent to prison
    etc etc so I say two things in response
    to that both from Fitzgerald that’s the
    very uh uh sort of inference or
    reasoning that this court rejected in
    Fitzgerald no but let me just Fitzgerald
    was a civil situation in which the
    president actually was in a different
    position than other people because of
    the nature of his job the high-profile
    nature and the fact that he touches so
    many different things when you’re
    talking about private civil liability
    you know anybody on the street can sue
    him we could see that the president was
    sort of different than the ordinary
    person when you say should he be immune
    from civil liability from anybody who
    wants to sue him but when we’re talking
    about criminal liability I don’t
    understand how the president stands in
    any different position with respect to
    the need to follow the law as he is
    doing his job than anyone else he he is
    required to follow the law and what not
    if there’s no criminal prose if there’s
    no threat of criminal prosecution what
    prevents the president from just doing
    whatever he wants all the structural
    checks that are identified in Fitzgerald
    and a whole series of this Court’s cases
    that go back to Martin against M for
    example impeachment oversight by
    Congress uh public oversight there’s a
    long series of them Fitzgerald directly
    addresses this in the Civil context and
    we think that Lang naturally PS I’m not
    sure that’s that that that’s much of a
    back stop and what I’m I guess more
    worried about you seem to be worried
    about the president being chilled I
    think that we would have a significant
    opposite problem if the president wasn’t
    chilled if someone with those kinds of
    powers the most powerful person in the
    world with the greatest amount of
    authority um could go into office
    knowing that there would be no potential
    penalty for committing crimes I’m trying
    to understand what the disincentive is
    from turning the Oval Office into um you
    know the the the the seat of criminal
    activity in this country
    uh I don’t think there’s any allegation
    of that in this case and what George
    Washington said is what Benjamin
    Franklin said is we view the prosecution
    of a chief executive is something that
    everybody cried out against is
    unconstitutional and what George
    Washington said is we’re worried about
    factional Strife which will no Al let me
    let me let me put this worry on the
    table if the potential for criminal
    liability is taken off the table
    wouldn’t there be a significant risk
    that future presidents would be
    emboldened to commit crimes with a
    abandon while they’re in office it’s
    right now the fact that we’re having
    this debate because olc has said that
    presidents might be prosecuted um
    presidents from the beginning of time
    have understood that that’s a
    possibility that might be what has kept
    this office from turning into the kind
    of uh crime Center that I’m envisioning
    but once we say no criminal liability Mr
    President you can do whatever you want
    I’m worried that we would have a worse
    problem than the problem of the
    president feeling constrained to follow
    the law while he’s in office I
    respectfully disagree with that because
    the the regime you’ve described is the
    regime we’ve operated under for 234
    years there has not been an expectation
    based on 234 years of unbroken political
    let me ask you another question let me
    ask you another question about this
    clear statement um line of questioning
    first of all I I didn’t see you argue
    that below I don’t know I understand
    that you have that set of in your briefs
    here but did you argue before the DC
    circuit something about a clear
    statement with respect to statutes uh
    yes uh in our separately filed motion
    for motion dismiss based on statutory
    grounds we extensively argued not just
    this clear statement rule but a whole
    panel right but that’s not that’s not
    the question presented in this case the
    question presented in this case comes
    out of your motion for immunity so to
    bring in now an argument that you didn’t
    raise below it seems to me you forfeited
    it no I believe it’s fairly included
    within the question presented especially
    especially because the court expanded
    the question presented from what either
    of the parties submitted but not to
    statutory interpretation I mean that
    that argument goes to statutory invo
    avoidance um you know con constitutional
    avoidance statutory interpretation you
    asked for immunity which is a totally
    different thing I think they’re very
    closely related logically the question
    is is does immunity exist and to what
    extent does it and the argument is
    immunity at least exists to an extent
    that it raises a grave constitutional
    question that triggers the clear
    statement rule that’s a really
    circular you you use that argument to
    avoid constitutional questions you are
    asking us a constitutional question here
    so it doesn’t even make sense to talk
    about clear statement in rule the way
    that it’s come up in the context of an
    immunity question but let me just let me
    ask you this um about it uh I had one
    more question
    um yeah so what what is the argument
    that the president United States who you
    say is bound by the law is not on notice
    that he has to do his job consistent
    with the law I mean to the extent that
    the clear statement rule comes in at all
    it’s about the person not being on
    notice so I I guess I don’t understand
    why Congress in every criminal statute
    would have to say and the president is
    included I thought that was the sort of
    background understanding that if they’re
    in acting a generally applicable
    criminal statute it applies to the
    president just like everyone else so so
    what is the clear statement that would
    have to be made in this context under
    Franklin and under public citizen
    Congress has to speak clearly before it
    interferes of the president’s powers and
    we have here an indictment that seeks to
    criminalize objective conduct that falls
    within the heartland of core executive
    Authority thank you thank you
    Council Mr
    drien Mr chief justice and may it please
    the court this court has never
    recognized
    absolute criminal immunity for any
    public official petitioner however
    claims that a former president has
    permanent criminal immunity for his
    official acts unless he was first
    impeached and convicted his novel Theory
    would immunize former presidents for
    criminal liability for bribery treason
    sedition murder and here conspiring to
    use fraud to overturn the results of an
    election and perpetuate himself in power
    such presidential immunity has no
    foundation in the
    Constitution the framers Knew Too Well
    the dangers of a king who could do no
    wrong they therefore devised a system to
    check abuses of power especially the use
    of official power for private
    gain here the executive branch is
    enforcing Congressional statutes and
    seeking accountability for petitioners
    alleged misuse use of official power to
    subvert
    democracy that is a compelling public
    interest in response petitioner raises
    concerns about potential abuses but
    established legal safeguards provide
    layers of protections with the article 3
    courts providing the ultimate check the
    existing system is a carefully balanced
    framework it protects the President but
    not at the High constit tional cost of
    blanket criminal
    immunity that has been the understanding
    of every president from the framing
    through Watergate and up to today this
    court should preserve it I welcome the
    Court’s
    questions uh Mr dben uh does the
    president um have immunity uh or uh are
    you saying that there’s no immunity
    presidential immunity even for official
    acts yes Justice Thomas but I think that
    it’s important to put in perspective the
    position that we are offering the court
    today uh the president as the head of
    the Article 2 Branch can assert as
    applied Article 2 objections to criminal
    laws that interfere with an exclusive
    power possessed by the president or that
    prevent the president from accomplishing
    his constitutionally assigned functions
    that is the Constitutional Doctrine that
    currently governs the separation of
    powers what petitioner is asking for is
    a broad blanket immunity that would
    protect the president a former president
    from any criminal exposure absent
    impeachment and conviction which has
    never happened in our history and we
    submit that is not necessary in order to
    assure that the president can perform
    all of the important tasks that the
    constitution reposes in him uh over over
    in not so distant past uh the presidents
    or certain presidents have engaged
    in uh various uh activity coups or uh
    Pro operations like operation Mongoose
    when I was a a
    teenager uh and yet there were no
    prosecutions uh why if you if what
    you’re saying is right it would seem
    that that was have been ripe for uh
    criminal prosecution of someone so
    Justice Thomas I think this is a central
    question the reason why uh there have
    not been prior criminal prosecutions is
    that there were not crimes and I want to
    explain why there are layers of
    safeguards that assure that former
    presidents do not have to lightly assume
    criminal liability for any of their
    official acts at the outset there is a
    statutory construction principle that is
    applicable here it arises when there is
    a serious constitutional question about
    applying a criminal statute to the
    president’s acts it is not and I’m sure
    that we will discuss this that no
    statute can apply to the president in
    His official capacity absent a
    designation of the president in it but
    there is a principle that if there is a
    serious constitutional question courts
    will strive to construe the statute so
    that it does not apply to to the
    president in addition to that the
    president I think has been mentioned
    earlier has access to advice from the
    attorney general and it would be a due
    process problem to prosecute a president
    who received advice from the attorney
    general that his actions were lawful
    absent the kind of collusion or
    conspiracy that itself represented a
    criminal violation which I don’t really
    see as being a realistic option and then
    if I could say one more thing because
    you raised the question about uh
    potential overseas taking of life and
    the office of legal counsel has
    addressed this quite specifically there
    is a background principle of criminal
    law called the Public Authority uh
    exception to liability and it is read
    into federal law unless Congress takes
    specific action to OU it which it never
    has done as far as I am aware and in a
    case in which the uh president sought to
    engage engage in overseas activity that
    would result in The Taking of Life olc
    did not say the federal murder statute
    doesn’t apply that would be the the
    thrust of my friend’s argument on clear
    statement instead olc went through an
    extensive analysis on why the Public
    Authority defense would prevent it from
    being considered a violation of law to
    go after a terrorist for
    example um the court of appeals below
    whose decision were reviewing said quote
    a former president can be prosecuted for
    his official acts because the fact of
    the prosecution means that the former
    president has allegedly acted in
    defiance of the laws do you agree with
    that
    statement well I think it sounds
    tautologically true but I I want to
    underscore that the obligation of a
    president is to take care that the laws
    are Faithfully executed well I the re I
    think it sounds tautologically true as
    well and that I think is the clearest
    statement of the Court’s holding which
    is why it concerns me it as I read it it
    says simply a former president can be
    prosecuted because he’s being prosecuted
    well I I would not suggest that that’s
    either the proper approach in this case
    or certainly not the government’s
    approach um a prosecution does of course
    invoke uh Federal Criminal Law the
    allegations have to be presented to a
    grand jury which votes upon the
    indictment well that’s what I I mean
    shortly after that statement in the
    court that Court’s opinion that’s what
    they said but there’s no reason to worry
    because the prosecutor will act in good
    faith and there’s no reason to worry
    because a grand jury will have return
    the indictment now you know how easy it
    is in many cases for a prosecutor to get
    a grand jury to uh bring an indictment
    and Reliance on the fa good faith of the
    prosecutor um may not be uh enough in
    the uh some cases I’m not suggesting
    here um so if it’s tological and those
    are the only protections that the court
    of appeals below gave and that is no
    longer your position you’re not
    defending that position why shouldn’t we
    either send it back to the court of
    appeals or uh issue an opinion making
    clear that that’s not the law well I I
    am defending the court of appeals
    judgment and I do think that there are
    layered safeguards that the court can
    take into account that will amarate
    concerns about unduly chilling
    presidential conduct that concerns us we
    are not endorsing a regime that we think
    would expose former presidents to
    criminal prosecution in bad faith for
    political animus without adequate
    evidence uh a politically driven
    prosecution would violate the
    constitution under weight versus United
    States it’s not something within the
    Arsenal of prosecu UT to do prosecutors
    take an oath the Attorney General takes
    an oath so well I don’t want to
    overstate the your Honor’s concern with
    potentially relying solely on good faith
    but that’s an ingredient and then the
    courts stand ready to adjudicate motions
    based on Selec a prosecution political
    animus this court relied on those very
    Protections in advance case just two
    years AG but what what concerns me is as
    you know the court of appeals did not
    get into a focus consideration of what
    acts we’re talking about or what
    documents we’re talking about because of
    its adoption of what you termed and I
    agree quite correctly as a tological
    statement because the fact of
    prosecution was enough enough to take
    away any official immunity the fact of
    prosecution they had no need to look at
    what courts normally look at when you’re
    talking about a privilege or immunity
    question well I think I would take issue
    Mr chief justice with the idea of taking
    away immunity there is no immunity that
    is in the Constitution unless this court
    creates it today there certainly is no
    textual immunity we do not submit that
    that’s the end of the story United
    States versus Nixon wasn’t a textually
    based case neither was Nixon versus
    Fitzgerald we endorse both of those
    Holdings but what is important is that
    no public official has ever had the kind
    of abs absolute criminal immunity that
    my friend speaks of even with respect to
    the speecher debate clause it’s very
    narrow it’s focused on legislative acts
    it’s not focused on everything that a
    congressman does and it responds to a
    very specific historical circumstance
    that basically involved the two other
    branches uh potentially harassing
    legislators and preventing them from
    doing their jobs that’s why it ended up
    in the Constitution nothing like that
    ended up in uh in the constitution for
    the presidents and that’s because one of
    the chief concerns of the framers was
    the risk of presidential misconduct they
    labored over this they adopted an
    impeachment uh structure that separated
    removal from office as a political
    remedy from Criminal prosecution this
    departed from the British model the
    British model was you get impeached and
    criminally prosecuted and convicted in
    the same proceeding the framers did not
    want that they wanted a political remedy
    in case a president was engaging in
    conduct that endangered the nation he
    could be removed he can’t be prosecuted
    while he’s a sitting president that’s
    been the long-standing justice
    department position Mr dben you dispute
    the proposition that a former president
    has some form of immunity but as I
    understand your argument you do
    recognize that a former president has a
    form of special protection namely that
    statutes that are applicable to
    everybody must be interpreted
    differently under some circumstances
    when they are applied to a former
    president isn’t that true it is true
    because Justice Alo of the general
    principle that courts constru statutes
    to avoid serious constitutional
    questions and that has been the
    long-standing practice of the office of
    legal counsel in the Department of
    Justice all right so this is
    more I think than just a a quarrel about
    terminology whether what the former
    president gets is some form of immunity
    or some form of special protection
    because it involves this difference
    which I’m sure you’re very well aware of
    if it’s just a form of special
    protection in other words statutes will
    be interpreted differently as applied to
    a former president then uh that is
    something that has to be litigated at
    trial the the former president can make
    a motion to dismiss and may cite olc
    opinions and the district court may say
    well that’s fine I’m not bound by olc
    and I interpret it differently so let’s
    go to trial and then there has to be a
    trial and that may involve uh great
    expense and it may take up a lot of time
    and during the trial the the former
    president may be unable to engage in
    other activities that the former
    president would want to to engage in and
    then the outcome is dependent on the
    jury the instructions to the jury and
    how the jury returns a verdict and then
    it has to be taken up on appeal so the
    protection is greatly diluted if you
    take the form uh if it takes the form
    that you have proposed and why is that
    better it’s better because it’s more
    balanced the the blanket immunity that
    petitioner is arguing for just means
    that Criminal prosecution is off the
    table unless he says that impeachment
    and conviction have occurred those are
    political remedies that are extremely
    difficult to achieve in a case where the
    conduct misconduct occurs close to the
    end of a president’s term Congress is
    unlikely to crank up the Machinery to do
    it and if the impeachment trial has to
    occur after the president has left
    office there’s an open question about
    whether that can happen at all so you’re
    arguing against most far reaching uh
    aspects of of Mr Sour’s argument right
    that that is that is correct and and let
    me turn then to why what about uh to
    unpack it a little more uh do you agree
    that there are some aspects of Article 2
    Presidential Power that are exclusive
    and that Congress cannot regulate and
    therefore cannot criminalize absolutely
    okay for other official acts that the
    president may take that are not within
    that exclusive power uh assume for the
    sake of argument this question that
    there’s not blanket immunity for those
    official acts but that to preserve the
    separation of powers to provide Fair
    notice to make sure Congress has thought
    about this that Congress has to speak
    clearly to criminalize official acts of
    the president uh by a specific reference
    that seems to be what the olc opinions
    suggest I know you have a little bit of
    a disagreement with that and what this
    Court’s cases is also suggest so Jus kav
    I’d like like to take all of those in
    turn because I don’t think this Court’s
    cases speak that broadly I definitely
    don’t think that the office of legal
    counsel opinions stand for this broad
    proposition that unless the president is
    specifically named he’s not in in the
    statute and I don’t think that that’s
    necessary in order to afford adequate
    protection for the president’s valid
    article to functions you said unless I
    sorry to interrupt but I want to just
    get this out and you can incorporate in
    the answerer you said unless there’s a
    serious constitutional
    question well it’s isn’t it’s a serious
    constitutional question whether a
    statute can be applied to the
    president’s official act so wouldn’t you
    always uh interpret the statute not to
    apply to the president even under your
    formulation unless Congress had spoken
    with some clarity I I don’t think across
    the board that as serious constitutional
    question exists on applying any criminal
    statute to the president the problem is
    the vague that you know obstruction and
    3 371 conspiracy to fraud of the United
    States can be used against a lot of
    presidential activities historically
    with an uh creative prosecutor who wants
    to go after a president well let me try
    to backra that’s what we’re talking
    about historically is the risk that and
    and going forward the the risk so you
    can take all of that I I think that the
    the question about the risk is very
    serious and obvious viously it is a
    question that this court has to evaluate
    for the executive branch our view is
    that there is a a balanced protection
    that better serves the interest of the
    Constitution that incorporates both
    accountability and protection for the
    president and I want to go through the
    protections that do exist but perhaps
    it’s worth returning uh at the outset to
    the statutory construction question that
    you raised the office of legal counsel
    has said uh the offense of bribery of
    course uh applies to the president it
    does not name the president just as
    courses section 201 does not
    specifically name the president assume
    that’s personal so well I I think that
    that’s what Brewster said bribery
    statute
    607 says the president I’ve got it in
    front of me and so there is there is
    that let me just back up though just a
    second to what was a quick exchange with
    Justice kav that I just want to make
    sure I understand yeah did you agree
    that there are some core functions of
    the executive that uh president conduct
    that Congress cannot criminalize yes we
    so is is that a form I mean we can call
    it immunity or you can call it they
    can’t do it but what’s the difference we
    call it an as applied Article 2
    challenge that okay okay can we call it
    immunity just for shorthand sake so we
    so I think we are kind of narrowing the
    ground of dispute here it seems to me
    there is some some area you you concede
    that an official acts that Congress
    cannot criminalize and now we’re just
    talking about the scope well I don’t
    think it’s a just but I think it’s a
    very significant gap between any
    official Act and the small core of
    exclusive official act I I I got that
    but I want to explore that okay so for
    example let’s say a president leads a
    mostly peaceful protest sit in in front
    of Congress uh because he objects to a
    a piece of legislation that’s going
    through and it in fact delays the
    proceedings in Congress now under 1512
    C2 uh that might be corruptly impeding
    uh a proceed an official proceeding
    could is that core and therefore
    immunized or whatever word euphemism you
    want to use for that or is that not core
    and therefore prosecutable well without
    a clear statement that applies to the
    president it’s not it’s not core the
    core kinds of activities that the court
    has acknowledged are the things that I
    would run through the Youngstown
    analysis and it’s a pretty small set but
    things like the pardon power the power
    to recognize foreign Nations the power
    to veto legislation the power to make
    appointments these are things that the
    constitution specifically allocates to
    the president once you get out so a
    president then could be prosecuted for
    the conduct I described abs leaves
    office probably not but I want to
    explain the framework of of why uh I
    don’t think that that would be uh
    prosecution that would be valid um first
    I think you need to run through all of
    the sort of normal uh categories of
    analysis is there a serious
    constitutional question that’s posed by
    applying that statute to the president
    if so then you may well default to it
    does not apply at least on that fact I
    thought you said it
    that was my question and you said it it
    fell outside that core we’ll call it
    immunity for Simplicity sake yes I
    understand but there’s a there’s a
    separate category okay so why couldn’t
    he be prosecuted for leading a civil
    rights protest in front of the capital
    that that delays a vote on a piece of
    important legislation so I think what
    you need to do is run through all of the
    very president specific protective
    layers of analysis so one of them is
    whether the statute would be construed
    not to apply to his conduct even if it’s
    not uh part of that small core of things
    that Congress can’t regulate at all if
    it operates to prevent the president
    from fulfilling his article he he could
    have given speeches against it he did
    yes but he left he he he did something
    more and it and it corruptly impeded and
    sought to influence an official
    proceeding well so I I don’t
    know we’re starting with the layers I
    think of protection and we’re now down
    through whether the statute would be
    construed to apply to him then there’ be
    a question of whether it does I will
    assume it uh then then there’s a
    question of whether he has the State of
    Mind
    necessarily does corrupt nobody knows
    what corrupt intent means we’ve been
    around that tree we will probably find
    out and and maybe it means that he knows
    that he was doing wrong is what the the
    government told us he knows he’s doing
    wrong he knows he shouldn’t be up there
    uh blocking a congressman from well well
    let me get to the next layer then which
    is that the president does have access
    to the attorney general to provide legal
    advice and regularly gets legal advice
    from the the Attorney General on the
    lawful scope of the president’s
    activities we could go down two tracks
    here one is that the Attorney General
    advises him that as an incident of his
    Article 2 Authority and in carrying out
    uh the functions of the presidency he
    can lawfully participate in that protest
    it’s kind of the First Amendment analog
    to uh the president’s official Powers
    which the court is exploring in other
    cases alternatively the Attorney General
    could advise him I’m sorry Mr President
    there’s nothing in the language of this
    statute that carves you out I don’t see
    a serious constitutional question in it
    because you don’t have to do that and I
    would advise you not to VI be prosecuted
    no no if if he gets a negative opinion
    from the attorney general he still
    couldn’t be prosecuted I’m going to
    assume that most presidents are not
    going to take an well but if he gets one
    and does it anyway then he be prosecuted
    well so then if we are down at that
    level I think what we are really asking
    is whether the president is subject to
    the criminal law and and our answer is
    yes he is subject to the criminal law
    can we go back to um the bribery statute
    I like you understand that the only that
    is covered by that is the president is
    barred from soliciting or receiving
    funds in any room or building in the
    United States that that is correct it’s
    an extreme official building it’s a very
    limited mention of and it really I
    think so as I understand this there’s
    two very limited Provisions mentioning
    the president is included that’s right
    there’s a whole number of Provisions
    that exclude the president many many
    many more that exclude the president
    correct it’s a kind of small number on
    both sides of the now Justice Barrett
    made the point that if we say a
    president can’t be included in a
    criminal law unless explicitly named
    then that would par the
    Senate from impeaching him for high
    crimes or misdemeanor because that means
    that he’s not subject to the law at all
    correct so I I think that’s a tautology
    you can’t escape just so my what I think
    that Justice Barrett was saying and we
    would agree with it is that under my
    friend’s position after impeachment he
    could be prosecuted but under his
    statutory construction approach there’d
    be nothing to prosecute him for exactly
    that’s the point which is if he’s not
    covered by the criminal law he can’t be
    impeached for it for violating it all
    right now could we go further on this
    clear statement R
    um the situations and you mentioned it
    earlier in which we have looked to see
    if the president is covered is
    contextual correct correct and what are
    the factors that generally we look at I
    I’m thinking specifically about whether
    the APA covers the president correct and
    what we did there was analy what powers
    were being given to in the lawsuit and
    Etc we looked at words we looked at
    structured we looked that separation of
    powers issues relating to our case law
    that said you can’t direct the president
    to do anything and this would have been
    a subterfuge for that correct all
    correct all right so I don’t know why
    two of my colleagues uh how they would
    fashion a clear statement rule that
    would say when the law says any person
    can’t accept the bribe that that permits
    the president to do it so I I agree
    justce Soto myor that that that the way
    that this court has interpreted statutes
    that do carve out the president Justice
    Kavanagh asked about this was very
    context specific uh the Franklin case
    basically involved a holding that we are
    highly unlikely to say that the
    president is an agency something that
    the government said would be a peculiar
    understanding of agency when the effect
    of it would be that we would review the
    president’s decisions under statutes for
    abuse of discretion which is a very
    extraordinary thing to do I think even
    going back to Marberry this perhaps a
    point on which I agree with my friend
    Marberry says discretionary acts of the
    president are not the kind of thing that
    the court reviews all right could I go
    back to your brief and and um going back
    to what some of my colleagues have asked
    you there appears to be some narrowing
    principles to the concept that the
    president is subject to all criminal
    laws in all situations correct you agree
    that if it affects core
    Powers um then he would not be subject
    to any laws that attempted to limit
    those core Powers correct you’re
    defining core Powers as those specified
    by Article 2 that is essentially correct
    yes all right and the only words in the
    constitution is is that um uh that have
    to do with the president in law is that
    he shall take care that the law be
    Faithfully executed correct that is
    right hard to imagine that a president
    who breaks the law is Faithfully
    executing the law correct he has to
    execute all of the
    laws Mr dben do you really I mean the
    presidents have to make a lot of tough
    decisions about enforcing the law and
    they have to make decisions about
    questions that are unsettled and they
    have to make decisions based on the
    information that’s available do you
    really did did I understand you to say
    well you know if he makes a mistake he
    makes a mistake he’s subject to the
    criminal laws just like anybody else you
    don’t think he’s in a special a a
    peculiarly precarious position he’s in a
    special position for a number of reasons
    one is that he has access to legal
    advice about everything that he does
    he’s under a constitutional obligation
    just he’s supposed to be faithful to the
    laws of the United States and the
    Constitution of the United States and
    making a mistake is not what lands you
    in a criminal prosecution there’s been
    some talk about the statutes that are
    issue in this case I think they are
    fairly described as malaman say statutes
    uh engaging in conspiracies to defraud
    the United States with respect to one of
    the most important functions namely the
    certification of the next president well
    I I don’t want to dispute the particular
    application of of that of 371 conspiracy
    to defraud the United States to the
    particular facts here but would you not
    agree that that is a peculiarly
    open-ended statutory Prohibition in that
    that fraud under that provision unlike
    under most other fraud Provisions does
    not have to do what doesn’t require uh
    any uh uh impairment of a property
    interest is designed to protect
    functions of the United States
    government and it’s difficult to think
    of a more critical function than the
    certification of who won the election
    yeah I I’m not as I said I’m not
    discussing the particular facts of this
    case but it applies to any uh fraud that
    interferes seriously with any government
    operation right so what the government
    needs to show is an intent to impede
    interfere or defeat a lawful government
    of function by deception and it has to
    be done with C enter these are not the
    kinds of activities that I think any of
    us would think a president needs to
    engage in in order to fulfill his
    Article 2 duties and particularly in a
    case like this one I I want to pick up
    on something that the court said earlier
    about the distinction between a public
    official acting to achieve public ends
    and a public official acting to achieve
    private ends as applied to this case the
    president has no functions with respect
    to the certif ification of the winner of
    the presidential election it seems
    likely that the framers designed the
    Constitution that way because at the
    time of the founding presidents had no
    two-term limit they could run again and
    again and uh uh were expected
    potentially to want to do that so the
    potential for self-interest would
    explain why the states conduct the
    elections they send uh electors to uh
    certify who w those elections and to
    provide votes and then Congress in a
    joint extraordinary joint session
    certifies the vote and the president
    doesn’t have an official role in that
    proceeding so it’s difficult for me to
    understand how there could be a serious
    constitutional question about saying you
    can’t use fraud to defeat that function
    you can’t obstruct it through deception
    you can’t deprive millions of Voters of
    their right to have their vote counted
    for the candidate who they chose thank
    you Council uh justice Thomas Justice
    Alo could we just briefly review the
    layers of protection that you think
    exists and I’m going to start with what
    the DC circuit said so the first layer
    of protection is that Attorneys General
    and other justice department attorneys
    can be trusted to act in a professional
    and ethical manner right yes uh how uh
    robust is that protection I mean most of
    the the vast majority of Attorneys
    General and Justice Department of
    attorneys and we both served in the
    justice department for a long time are
    honorable people and they take their
    professional ethical responsibilities
    seriously but they have been exceptions
    right both among Attorneys General and
    among Federal
    prosecutors there have been rare
    exceptions Justice Alo but when we’re
    talking about layers of protection I do
    think this is the the starting point and
    the court has concerns about the
    robustness of it I I would suggest
    looking at the charges in this case they
    well I’m going to talk about this in in
    the abstract because what is before us
    of course does involve this particular
    case which is immensely important but
    whatever we decide is going to apply to
    all future presidents so as for
    Attorneys General there have been two
    who were convicted of criminal offenses
    while in office there were others uh a
    Mitchell Palmer’s one that comes mind
    who is widely regarded as having abused
    the power of his office would you agree
    with that I would but they are to
    officials in a long line of attorneys
    generals who did not and in Departments
    of Justice that are staffed by multiple
    people who do adhere to their office and
    Jus Leo if I could just the point that I
    wanted to make about this case does go
    to the general proposition the
    allegations about the misuse of the
    Department of Justice to perpetuate uh
    El ction fraud show exactly how the
    Department of Justice functions in the
    way that it is supposed to petitioner is
    alleged to have tried to get the
    Department of Justice to send fraudulent
    letters to the states to get them to
    reverse electoral results yeah I
    understand I I understand that Mr drean
    but as I said this case will have
    effects that go far beyond this
    particular prosecution so moving on to
    the second level of prote that the DC
    circuit cited Federal grand juries will
    shield former presidents from
    unwarranted
    indictments how much protection is that
    well it it affords two levels of
    protection one is the the probable cause
    finding requires evidence I think some
    of the fears about groundless
    prosecutions aren’t supported by
    evidence and they’re not going to get
    out of the starting game I mean there
    there’s the old saw about inditing a ham
    sandwich um yes but I think just you had
    a lot of experience in the Justice
    Department you come across a lot of
    cases where uh the the the US attorney
    or another Federal prosecutor really
    wanted to indict a case and the grand
    jury refused to do so there are such
    cases there yeah yes uh but I think that
    the other once in a while there’s an
    eclipse too uh well I think that that’s
    for the most reason is prosecutors have
    no incentive to bring a case to a grand
    jury and secure an indictment when they
    don’t have evidence to prove guilt
    Beyond a reasonable doubt it’s
    self-defeating all right then the third
    level is that former presidents enjoy
    all the protections afforded all
    criminal defendants right and we’ve
    discussed that and that may be true at
    the end of the day but a lot can happen
    between the time when an indictment is
    returned and the time when the former
    president finally gets a Vindication
    perhaps on appeal isn’t that correct it
    is correct Justice Leo but I think that
    we should also consider the history of
    this country as members of the Court
    have observed it’s baked into the
    Constitution that any president knows
    that they are exposed to potential
    criminal prosecution my friend says
    after impeachment and conviction we
    don’t read the impeachment judgment
    Clause that way but we are it’s common
    ground that all former presidents have
    known that they could be indicted and
    convicted and Watergate cemented that
    understanding uh the Watergate Smoking
    Gun tape involved President Nixon and HR
    halderman talking about and then
    deciding to use the CIA to give a bogus
    story to the FBI to shut down a criminal
    investigation I mean Mr sour and others
    have identified events in the past where
    presidents have engaged in conduct that
    might have been charged as a federal
    crime and you you say well no that’s not
    really true this is Page 42 of your
    brief so what about President Franklin D
    Roosevelt’s decision to inter Japanese
    Americans during World War II couldn’t
    that have been charged under uh 18 USC
    241 conspiracy against civil rights
    today yes given this Court’s decision in
    Trump versus United States in which uh
    the you know Trump versus Hawaii excuse
    me where the court said koram matu was
    overruled I mean President Roosevelt
    made that decision with the advice of
    his attorney general that’s a layer of
    is that really true I thought I thought
    attorney general ble thought that uh
    there was really no threat of sabotage
    as did Jer Hoover so I think that there
    is a lot of historical controversy but
    it underscores that that occurred during
    wartime it implicates uh potential
    commanderin-chief
    concerns concerns about the exigencies
    of National Defense that might provide
    and as applied Article 2 challenge at
    the time I’m not suggesting today but
    the idea that uh a decision that was
    made and ultimately endorsed by this
    court perhaps wrongly in the koram Matsu
    case would support criminal prosecution
    under 241 which requires under United
    States versus linear that the right have
    been made specific so that there is
    notice to the president I don’t think
    that would have been satisfying all
    right well we could go through other
    historical examples I won’t do that let
    me just touch briefly on a couple couple
    of other things one is the relevance of
    advice of council and I wasn’t clear
    what your answer is so if the president
    gets advice from the attorney general
    that something is lawful is that an
    absolute defense yes uh I think that it
    is um under the principle of entrapment
    by a stopple this is a due process
    doctrine that we referred to in our
    brief uh our reply brief in Garland
    versus Carill this term at page 19
    where we cited authority of this court
    that if a authorized government
    representative tells you that what you
    are about to do is lawful it would be a
    a root violation of due process to
    prosecute you for that will that won’t
    that give presidents an incentive to be
    sure to pick an attorney general who can
    Will who will reliably tell the
    president that it is lawful to do
    whatever the president wants to do if
    there’s any possibly conceivable argu in
    favor of it so I think the
    Constitutional structure protects
    against that risk the president
    nominates the attorney general and the
    Senate provides advice and consent and
    these are the sort of structural checks
    that have operated for 200 years to
    prevent the kind of abuses that my
    friend fears going forward as a result
    of this once in history
    prosecution uh on the question of
    whether a president has the authority to
    pardon himself which came up earlier in
    the argument what’s the answer to that
    question I don’t believe the Department
    of Justice has taken a position the the
    only Authority that I’m aware of is a
    member of the office of legal council
    wrote on a memorandum that there is no
    self-part Authority as far as I know the
    department has not addressed it further
    and of course this court had not uh
    addressed it either well when you
    address that question before us are you
    speaking in Your Capacity solely as a
    member of the special council’s team or
    or are you speaking uh on behalf of the
    justice department which has special
    institutional responsibilities I am
    speaking on behalf of the justice
    department we’re representing the United
    States now how don’t you think we need
    to know the answer to at least to the
    Justice Department’s position on that
    issue in order to decide this case
    because if a president has the authority
    to Pardon himself before leaving office
    and the DC circuit is right that there
    is no immunity from prosecution won’t
    the the predictable result be that
    presidents on the last couple of days of
    office are going to Pardon themselves
    from anything that they might have been
    conceivably charged with committing I I
    really doubt that Justice Alo I mean it
    sort of presupposes a regime that we
    have never had except for President
    Nixon and as alleged in the indictment
    here presidents who are conscious of
    having engaged in wrongdoing and seeking
    to Shield themselves I think the
    political consequences of a President
    Who asserted a right of self- Pardon
    that has never been recognized that
    seems to contradict a Bedrock principle
    of our law that no person shall be the
    judge in their own case uh those are
    adequate deterrence I think so that this
    kind of dystopian regime is not going to
    evolve all right let me end end with
    just a question about what is required
    for the functioning of a stable Democrat
    ATC society which is something that we
    all want um I’m sure you would agree
    with me that a stable Democratic Society
    requires that a candidate who loses an
    election even a close one even a hotly
    contested one leave office peacefully if
    that candidate is is the incumbent we of
    course all right
    now if a an incumbent who loses is a
    very close hotly contested election
    knows that a real
    possibility uh after leaving office is
    not that the president is going to be
    able to go off into a peaceful
    retirement but that the president may be
    criminally prosecuted by a bitter
    political opponent will that not lead us
    into a cycle that destabilizes the
    functioning of our country as a
    democracy and we can look around the
    world and find countries where we have
    seen this process where the loser gets
    thrown in jail so I think it’s exactly
    the opposite Justice Alo there are
    lawful mechanisms to contest the results
    in an election and outside the record
    but I think of public knowledge uh
    petitioner and his allies filed dozens
    of electoral challenges and my
    understanding is lost all but one that
    was not outcome determinative in any
    respect there were judges that that said
    in order to sustain substantial claims
    of fraud that would overturn an election
    result that’s certified by a state you
    need evidence you need proof and none of
    those things were manifested so there is
    an appropriate way to challenge things
    through the courts with evidence if you
    lose you accept the results that has
    been the nation’s experience I think the
    court is well familiar with that thank
    you Justice s
    mayor a stable Democratic Society needs
    the good faith of its public officials
    correct absolutely and that good faith
    assumes that they will follow the law
    correct now putting that aside there is
    no failsafe system of
    government meaning we have a judicial
    system that has layers and layers and
    layers of protection for accused
    defendants in the hopes that the inent
    will go free we fail
    routinely but we succeed more often than
    not in the vast majority of cases the
    innocent do go free sometimes they don’t
    and we have some
    post um conviction remedies for that but
    we still fail we’ve executed innocent
    people
    having said that Justice um Alo went
    through step by step all of the
    mechanisms that could potentially fail
    in the end if it fails
    completely it’s because we’ve destroyed
    our democracy on our own isn’t it it is
    justice so to myor and I also think that
    that there are additional checks in the
    system of course the Constitutional
    Frameworks designed a separated power
    system in order order to limit abuses I
    think one of the ways in which abuses
    are limited is accountability under the
    criminal law for criminal violations but
    the ultimate check is the Good Will and
    faith in democracy and crimes that are
    alleged in this case that are the
    antithesis of democracy that subed
    undermine that an encouragement to
    believe words that been somewhat put
    into suspicion here that no man is above
    the the law either in His official or
    private acts I think that is an
    assumption of the
    Constitution Justice Kagan Mr drean I
    want to go through um your framework and
    make sure I understand it so first on
    the small category of things that you
    say have absolute protection that they
    are core executive functions yes um what
    are those small
    categories uh pardon power pardon veto
    veto foreign
    recognition uh appointments Congress
    cannot say you can’t appoint a federal
    judge who hasn’t received uh you know a
    certain diploma it hasn’t achieved a
    certain age um there are a few other
    powers commander and chief commander and
    chief is is on the list but I want to
    add to uh my answer on that that
    Congress has substantial Authority in
    the National Security realm Congress
    declares war it raises armies it has
    power over the purse that’s so that may
    be viewed as not really in that core set
    of functions which nobody has any power
    but the president over yes I think that
    there may be some aspects like directing
    troops on the field in which the
    president’s power is completely
    unreviewable okay now in in in um in the
    next category where you where we’ve left
    the core set behind yes but we’re still
    in the world of official actions and
    that’s where you say there are uh
    various statutory conc instruction rules
    that might come into play correct but
    you have characterized those as
    something different from just saying oh
    look the statute doesn’t say the
    president therefore it doesn’t apply to
    the president that’s right so I wanted
    to give you an opportunity to say you
    know how that would look how that
    analysis would look in a given case and
    and in the course of responding to that
    you know I’m sort of thinking of
    something like the olc opinion which
    says bribery the president can be um
    tried and convicted of bribery even in
    the part of the bribery statutes that do
    not say the president um why is that
    true that is true because there is no
    serious constitutional question that the
    president needs to engage in bribery in
    order to carry out his constitutional
    functions and the office of legal
    council pointed out that bribery is
    enumerated in the impeachment Clause so
    it falls outside of anything that could
    be viewed as inherent in the need of
    article to function do you think the
    premise of that olc opinion was that the
    bribery was simply not official no or is
    the premise that the bribery was
    official and um and still the president
    could be prosecuted for it I think that
    that bribery is is the kind of hybrid
    that illustrates the abuse of public
    office for private gain that we think is
    paradigmatic of the kinds of things that
    should be uh not held to be immune in a
    bribery case the public official cannot
    ex ract the bribe without the official
    power to offer as uh the quid or the pro
    uh I guess the quo actually um uh so it
    really is a crime that can only be
    committed by public officials who misuse
    their power and it was one of the things
    that was most mistrusted many of the
    acts that are charged in this indictment
    or that would violate Federal Criminal
    Law similarly involve the misuse of
    official power for private gain so if
    you were to say like what the line is in
    this category like when it is that the
    statute should be understood as
    precluding presidential prosecution and
    when it is that the statute should be
    understood as allowing it what general
    principles should guide so the the the
    general principles I think kind of
    emerge from looking at what the office
    of legal counsel has done so for example
    with a respect to a federal statute that
    prohibited appointments to courts of
    people within certain degrees of on
    sity uh the office of legal council said
    this infringes on a very important
    appointment power of the president the
    power to appoint federal judges it
    cannot be presumed that Congress
    intended to do that because it would
    raise a very serious constitutional
    question the president is out then there
    are categories of statutes where the
    president is in like for example the
    Grassroots lobbying statute that the
    office of legal council wrote an opinion
    about that and it said for the president
    or other public officials to go out into
    the world and to promote their programs
    that can’t be what Congress intended to
    prohibit what it did intend to prohibit
    is using federal funds to J up Jin up an
    artificial Grassroots campaign that gave
    the appearance of emerging from the
    people but it was really topped down and
    the office of legal council said the
    president and officials who carry out
    the president’s uh mandates are subject
    to that statute so that’s a more nuanced
    one and then the third example that I
    will give you is
    uh the statute that would Pro uh permit
    prosecution for contempt of congress the
    office of legal council concluded that a
    good faith assertion of executive
    privilege as a reason for not providing
    information to Congress would preclude
    prosecution because Congress cannot be
    deemed to have altered the separation of
    powers in such a manner I think uh olc
    probably would have gone on to say if
    Congress tried to do it it would be
    deemed unconstitutional but again this
    was a statute that did not specifically
    name the president there are only two
    that do that so the entire Corpus of
    federal criminal law including bribery
    offenses sedition murder would all be
    off limits if it were taken to the uh to
    the to the extent that some of the
    questions have suggested and for the
    general principle does it raise a
    serious constitutional question and if
    so to what extent can it be carved out
    individually and there may be some
    instances where where the statutes here
    could be carved out and uh a particular
    act could be found to be protected or
    does the statute across the board in
    such a wide range of applications
    somewhat analogous to over breath
    analysis uh infringe on the president’s
    power so that we’re going to say that
    that the president is just out now that
    set of issues they seem important and uh
    May occasionally be difficult um they
    they also seem not really before us in
    the way just Jackson suggested earlier
    what do you S I mean do you think they
    are before us we should just clear it up
    here it is we have a case um what what
    else could we do how should we deal with
    this uh that there are these lingering
    issues that go beyond the question of
    whether there’s the kind of absolute
    immunity that um the former president is
    invoking so I think the court has
    discretion to reach that issue even
    though Justice Jackson is totally right
    it was not raised in the district court
    and it was not raised Ed in the court of
    appeals and the the analysis that I
    would use to get there is a fusion of a
    couple of principles one is the court
    has often resolved threshold questions
    that are a prerequisite to an
    intelligent resolution of the question
    presented so in a case like United
    States versus grubs for example the
    court reached out to decide whe whether
    anticipatory warrants are valid under
    the Fourth Amendment before turning to
    the question whether the triggering
    condition for an anticipatory warrant
    had to be in the the warrant so that’s
    one principle and then a a precedent
    that bears some analogy to this is uh
    Vermont natural resources agency versus
    United States xrl Stevens it was a keam
    case and the first question was whether
    a state agency was a person within the
    meaning of the false claims Act and the
    second question was whether if the state
    agency was 11th Amendment immunity
    kicked in and the court wrote an
    analysis of why it could reach both
    questions the reaching the person
    question didn’t expand the Court’s
    Jurisdiction and it made sense as a
    matter of constitutional avoidance to do
    that there are some considerations that
    cut against this and I I want to be
    clear that for overall government
    equities we are not wild about uh
    parties who raise a uh an immunity case
    that can be uh presented to a court on
    an interlocutory appeal and then
    smuggling in other issues so would want
    to guide the court not to have an
    expansive approach to that issue but the
    final thing that I would say about this
    is part of our submission to this court
    is that the article one branch and the
    article two branches are aligned in
    believing that this prosecution is an
    appropriate way to enforce the law
    Congress by making the law the current
    executive by deciding to bring it and
    since a building block of that uh
    submission is that Congress actually did
    apply these criminal laws to official
    conduct Court may wish to exercise its
    discretion to resolve that issue okay I
    have one last set of questions which um
    has to do with the official un
    unofficial line and you heard um Mr
    Sour’s responses to both Justice
    Barrett’s questions and my questions
    about what he thinks counts as official
    hears and what he thinks counts as
    unofficial here and I’m just wondering
    what you took from um his responses and
    also how you would characterize what is
    official and what is not official in
    this
    indictment so um I I think petitioner
    conceded that there are uh acts that are
    not official that are alleged in the
    indictment and we agree with him on all
    of that I think I disagree with him on
    everything else that he said about what
    is official and what is not organizing
    fraudulent slates of electors creating
    false documentation that says uh I’m an
    elector I was appointed properly I’m
    going to send a a vote off to Congress
    that reflects that petitioner won rather
    than the candidate that actually got the
    most votes and who was ascertained by
    the governor and whose electors were
    appointed to cast votes that is not uh
    official conduct that is campaign
    conduct and I think that the DC circuit
    in the blasing game case did draw an
    appropriate distinction a first-term
    president who’s running for reelection
    can act in the capacity as office Seeker
    or office holder and when working with
    private lawyers and a private public
    relations uh advise her to Jin up
    fraudulent slates of electors that is
    not any part of a president’s job so
    there’s I’m sorry there’s an allegation
    um in the indictment that has to do with
    the removal of a justice department
    official would would is that core
    protected conduct we don’t think that
    that’s core protected conduct I don’t
    think that that I would characterize
    that episode quite that way we do agree
    that the Department of Justice
    allegations were a use of the
    president’s official power in many ways
    we think that aggravates the nature of
    this offense seeking as a uh candidate
    to OU the lawful winner of the election
    and have one self-certified with private
    actors is a private scheme to achieve a
    private end and many of the
    co-conspirators alleged in the
    indictment are private but for an
    incumbent president to then use his
    presidential powers to try to enhance
    the likelihood that it succeeds makes
    the crime in our view worse so in the
    Department of Justice episode uh it curs
    very late in the election cycle after
    many other schemes had failed um and at
    that point the the petitioner is alleged
    to have tried to pressure the Department
    of Justice to send false letters to the
    states claiming that there were serious
    election irregularities and that they
    should investigate who they certified as
    a president none of this was true the
    Department of Justice officials all said
    this is not true we are not going to do
    that and at that point petitioner is
    alleged to have threatened to remove the
    Department of Justice officials who were
    standing by their oath and replace them
    with another person who would carry it
    out we’re not seeking to impose criminal
    liability on the president for
    exercising or talking about exercising
    the appointment and removal power no
    what we’re seeking to impose criminal
    liability for is a conspiracy to use
    fraud to subvert the election one means
    of which was to try to get the justice
    department to be complicit in this the
    case would have been no different if
    petitioner were successful and he had
    actually exercised the appointment and
    removal power and it had gone through
    and those fraudulent letters were sent
    it would have made the scheme more
    dangerous but it would not have changed
    the crime and how do we think about
    things like convers ations with the Vice
    President in other words things that if
    you say it that way it’s clear that they
    would fall under executive privilege but
    how does that relate to the question
    that we’re asking here so this is one of
    the most difficult questions for the
    Department of Justice and I I want to
    explain why that is if we are operating
    under a Fitzgerald versus Nixon lens and
    looking at this the way that we look at
    things when there is a private lawsuit
    filed against uh the president we take a
    very broad view of what the Outer
    Perimeter of official presidential
    action is in order to be as protective
    of the president against private
    lawsuits that as this court explained in
    Nixon versus Fitzgerald can be very
    dilus to the president’s conduct of
    business so if we were putting this
    under a Fitzgerald lens we would then
    have to answer to the question was he
    acting in in the capacity as office
    Seeker or was he acting in the capacity
    as as office holder and if you run
    through the indictment you can find
    support for those two
    characterizations and the Department of
    Justice has not yet had to come to grips
    with how we would analyze that set of
    interactions thank you justice Gorsuch
    if you did though I just wanted to
    confirm I thought I heard you thought
    that the Blazing game framework was the
    appropriate one is largely yes Justice
    guch we we agree with the idea of um the
    distinction between office holder and
    office Seeker we also agree that if it’s
    objectively reasonable to view the
    activities as those of office holder
    than the Fitzgerald immunity kicks in I
    think we would look more at the content
    of the actual interaction in order to
    make that determination than blasting
    game suggested at least on the facts of
    that case might be appropriate can you
    give me an example of what you have in
    mind I’m just trying to understand what
    Nuance you’re suggest so so so blasting
    game adopted a you know a generally very
    favorable pro-government framework that
    we
    endorse okay not here because we don’t
    think that Fitzgerald applies in the
    criminal C I understand that but but but
    but but putting that aside the
    distinction between official act and
    private office seeker yes their test is
    you think good enough for government
    work I
    I on this one the department hasn’t
    taken a Next Step since the blasting
    game decision but let me offer a few
    thoughts just SC I think might clarify
    it the blasting game decision focused on
    objective contextual indications to try
    to see whether the president was acting
    as a campaigner as opposed to a you know
    an office holder I I think that that
    that decision can also be made by
    looking at what the president actually
    said and let me illustrate that with an
    allegation that I think myly talk
    briefly uh that in one of the
    interactions between petitioner and a
    state official uh petitioner is alleged
    to have said all I need you to do is to
    find me 11,000 votes and change uh I
    think if you look at that that content
    it’s pretty clear that petitioner is
    acting in the capacity as office Seeker
    not as president and we would look at
    that content okay okay but the test I’m
    just focused on the legal test correct
    I’m not hearing any objections to it
    other than I think that the DC circuit
    placed more uh content consideration off
    limits than I would okay all right and
    then I wanted to understand on the core
    immunity or whatever word we use that
    that it seems to me that we’re narrowing
    the ground of dispute here considerably
    do do we look at motives the president’s
    motives for his actions I mean for
    example he has lots of War Powers as
    we’ve discussed but he might use them in
    order to enhance his election his
    personal interests is that a relevant
    consideration when we’re looking at core
    Powers so I I I am thinking of this more
    as looking at the objective of the
    activity as opposed to the kind of
    subjective motive in the sense that your
    honor is talking about I think that
    there is a lot of concern about saying
    an electoral motive to be reelected as
    such every first term president
    everything he does can be seen through
    the um Prism by critics at least of his
    personal interest in reelection yes and
    so you wouldn’t want that I I think you
    would say personal Mo motivations off
    limits with respect to the core Powers
    probably well with respect to the core
    Powers we think those are just things
    that can’t be Reg ulated at all like the
    pardon power and veto right regardless
    of motive correct regardless of Mo right
    all right so then we’re in the non-core
    powers right where we’re fighting over
    what role do motives play there I mean
    uh one could remove an an appointee that
    well first of all is maybe ask this
    first is removing an appointee a
    presidential appointee a core power or a
    non-core power in your world so here I
    might need to different iate between the
    principal officers that this court in
    cases like Myers and UHA law has
    regarded as uh having a constitutional
    status of being removable at will from
    inferior officers where Congress does
    have some regulatory latitude to impose
    restrictions on removal sure and and put
    that aside yeah I I understand that put
    putting that aside yes appointing a
    principal officer is a Core Power I am
    not uh prepared to say that there is no
    potential criminal regulation to say you
    can’t do it for corrupt purposes to
    enrich yourself for example well bribery
    all right but but but that’s what I was
    wondering do motives come into the Core
    Power analysis or not and now I’m
    hearing I I thought I heard no and now
    I’m hearing maybe I think maybe might be
    a little bit more appropriate because
    it’s not involved in this case the
    department has not had to take a
    position on exactly how uh these core
    Powers would be resolved under an as
    applied constitutional analysis none is
    involved in this case and I guess I’m
    wondering and I’m not concerned about
    this case so much as future ones too but
    uh these non-core powers and maybe core
    powers where a president is acting with
    at least in part a personal interest in
    getting
    reelected um everything he does yeah he
    wants to get reelected and if you’re if
    you’re allowing in motive to color
    that um I I’m I’m wondering how much is
    left uh of either the core or non-core
    Powers so I I I would be fine with
    carving that out and deeming that to be
    something that’s intrinsic in our
    electoral system we’re not talking about
    applying criminal law to somebody who
    makes an announcement that this program
    will be good for the United States and
    somebody could come along and say well
    you really did it to get reelected
    leaving aside whether any of that
    violates a crial law I know that the
    next question is assume that it does um
    I’m doubtful that it in fact does CU I
    don’t think criminal laws generally
    operate on motives as opposed to
    objectives and purposes but well all
    right intentions I mean you ref frame a
    motive is an intention and intention is
    a motive as you well know every day of
    the week so let’s put that aside I
    understand well put it putting that
    aside um that really to me Falls in a
    very different category and it is also
    POS there some motives or intense that
    that are cognizable and others that
    aren’t I mean it’s it’s awkward right
    when we look at back at like the
    injunction uh back to Marberry in the
    early cases you can’t enjoin a president
    yeah also me you hold him in contempt
    right sitting a sitting president for
    sure for sure just can I try one more
    time well let me just spin this out just
    a second right and and it didn’t matter
    what the president’s motives were we’re
    not going to look behind it right and
    and same thing in we said gosh Nixon
    versus Fitzgerald that’s something
    courts shouldn’t get engaged in because
    presidents have all manner of motives
    and again I’m not concerned about this
    case but I am concerned about future
    uses of the criminal law to Target
    political opponents based on accusations
    about their motives whether it’s
    re-election or who knows what corrupt
    means in
    1512 right we we don’t know what that
    means um maybe we’ll find out sometime
    soon but um the the dangerousness of
    accusing your political opponent of
    having bad motives and and if that’s
    enough to overcome your core powers or
    any other
    limits reactions thoughts yeah so I I I
    think that you’re raising a very
    difficult question that’s the idea right
    I mean that is the idea testing testing
    the limits of both sides arguments and
    I’m going to say something that I don’t
    normally say which is that’s really not
    involved in this case we
    don’t we don’t have bad political motive
    in that sense I understand that I
    appreciate that but you also appreciate
    that we’re writing a rule for yes for
    the ages yes and I think I would start
    by looking at the statutes and and then
    seeing what restrictions they do place
    on the president’s conduct and for
    example the statute that prohibits uh
    fraud to defeat the lawful functions of
    the United States the statute defines
    what the purpose is that the defender
    has to have in mind it has to be to
    defeat something that the United States
    is doing and it has to be by deception I
    don’t think that that gets us into the
    realm of motive hunting in the area
    where we are as concerned I think as the
    court would be about doing something
    that would undermine uh the presidency
    and the executive branch and 1512 C2 we
    may have different views on the clarity
    and the scope of that statute I think if
    the court does interpret corruptly is
    involving a consciousness of wrongdoing
    and elevates that to consciousness of
    illegality then we’re in a different
    realm wanting to get reelected is not an
    illegal motive and you don’t have to
    worry about Prosecuting presidents for
    that yeah okay thank you Mr D Justice
    Kavanaugh as you’ve indicated this case
    has huge implications for the presidency
    for the future of the presidency for the
    future of the country in my view um
    you’ve referred to the department a few
    times as having support the position who
    in the department is it the president
    the Attorney
    General uh the solicitor general of the
    United States uh part of the way in
    which the special counsel functions is
    as a uh component of the Department of
    Justice the regulations Envision that we
    reach out and consult and on a question
    of this magnitude that involves equities
    that are far beyond this prosecution as
    the questions of the court so it’s
    solicor General yes okay um
    second uh like justice Gorsuch uh I’m
    not focused on the Here and Now of this
    case I’m very concerned about the future
    uh and I think one of the Court’s
    biggest mistakes was Morrison versus
    Olen uh I think that was a terrible
    decision for the presidency and for the
    country and not because there were bad
    people uh who were independent councils
    but President Reagan’s Administration
    President Bush’s Administration
    president Clinton’s administration were
    really uh hampered yes uh in their view
    all three by the uh independent Council
    structure and and what I I’m worried
    about here is that that was kind of
    let’s relax Article 2 a bit for the
    needs of the moment and I’m worried
    about the similar kind of uh situation
    applying here that was a prosecutor
    investigating a president in each of
    those circumstances and someone picked
    from the opposite party the the current
    president uh and uh usually uh was how
    it worked and and Justice Scalia wrote
    that the the fairness of a process must
    be adjudged on the basis of what it
    permits to happen Not What It produced
    in a particular case you’ve emphasized
    uh many times regularity the Department
    of Justice and he said uh and I think
    this applied to the independent Council
    system and it could apply if presidents
    are routinely subject to investigation
    going forward one thing is certain
    however it involves investigating and
    perhaps Prosecuting a particular
    individual can one imagine a less
    Equitable manner of fulfilling the
    executive responsibility to investigate
    and prosecute what would the reaction be
    if in an area not covered by the statute
    the justice department posted a public
    notice inviting applicants to an assist
    in an investigation and possible
    prosecution of a certain prominent
    person does this not invite what Justice
    Jackson described as picking the man and
    then searching the law books or putting
    investig to work to pin some offense on
    him to be sure the investigation must
    relate to the area of criminal offense
    specified uh by the statute uh but that
    has often been and nothing prevents it
    from being uh very broad I paraphrased
    at the end because it was referring to
    the judges yes um that’s the concern
    going forward is that the the system
    will when when former presidents are
    subject to prosecution in the history of
    Morrison versus old olon tells us it’s
    not going to stop it’s going to it’s
    going to cycle back and be used against
    the current president or the next
    president or and the next president and
    the next president after that all that I
    want you to try to allay that concern
    why is this not Morrison V Olsen Redux
    if we agree with you well um first of
    all the the independent Council regime
    did have many structural features that
    emphasized an independence at the
    expense of accountability we don’t have
    that regime now but even under that
    regime Justice Kavanaugh I think if you
    look at Lawrence Walsh’s report on Iran
    Contra I think this goes to a very
    fundamental point for the court to
    consider uh uh judge Walsh said I
    investigated these matters the proof did
    not nearly come close to establishing
    criminal violations so we’ve lived from
    Watergate through the present through
    the independent Council ERA with all of
    flaws without these prosecutions having
    gone off on a runaway train well I think
    President Reagan President Bush and
    president Clint whether rightly or
    wrongly thought oppos thought contrary
    to what you just said I think nobody
    likes being investigated for a crime but
    it didn’t result in the kind of
    vindictive prosecutions that I I think
    your honor is is Raising as a
    possibility yeah we we have a different
    system now I think there was a consensus
    throughout Washington that there were
    flaws in the independent Council system
    it lapsed we now are inside the justice
    department with full accountability
    resting with the attorney general so the
    special Council regulations now don’t
    operate the way that the independent
    Council regulations do and I this court
    would have something to say about it I
    think if uh the independent Council
    statute were revived I’m not sure that
    anybody is in favor of that right now I
    was just saying this is kind of the
    mirror image of that is one way someone
    could perceive it but I take your point
    about the different structural
    protections internally and like justice
    Scalia said let me I do not mean to
    suggest anything of the sort in the
    present case I’m not talking about the
    present case uh so I’m talking about the
    future uh SEC another point you said um
    uh uh talked about the criminal statutes
    it’s very easy to characterize
    presidential actions as false or
    misleading under vague statutes so um uh
    president Lyon Johnson statements about
    the Vietnam War
    say something’s false uh turns out to be
    false that he says about the Vietnam War
    371 prosecution so after he leades
    office I think not but I we need this is
    an area that I do think that merits some
    serious and nuanced consideration
    statements that are made by a president
    uh to the public are not really coming
    within the realm of criminal statutes
    they’d never been prosecuted I realize
    that the court can say well what if they
    were
    and and then I think you get to what I
    would regard as a hard constitutional
    question that would probably guide the
    court away from trying to resolve today
    although I do think it’s very different
    from our case and distinguishable in
    important ways but you’re dealing here
    with two branches of government that
    have a Paramount interest in the
    integrity and freedom of their
    interactions with each other on the one
    hand the president of course should be
    very free to send usually his uh
    cabinet officials and sub cabinet
    officials to testify to Congress to
    provide them with the information needed
    to enact legislation and to make
    National policy and we’re very concerned
    about anything that would tramel that on
    the other side of the equation Congress
    has a compelling interest in receiving
    accurate information and at the very
    least not information that is
    intentionally and knowingly false that
    would pollute the legis how about I
    think came up before President Ford’s
    pardon uh very controversial in the
    moment yes hugely unpopular probably why
    he lost in 76 yes uh now looked upon as
    one of the better decisions in
    presidential history I think by most
    people um if he’s thinking about well if
    I grant this pardon to Richard Nixon
    could I be investigated myself for
    obstruction of justice on the theory
    that I’m interfering with the
    investigation of Richard Nixon so this
    would fall into that small core area
    that I mentioned to Justice Kagan and
    Justice Gorsuch of uh presidential
    responsibilities that Congress cannot
    regulate how about President Obama’s
    drone strikes so the the office of legal
    council looked at this very carefully
    and determined that number one the
    federal murder statute does apply to the
    Executive Branch the president wasn’t
    personally carrying out the strike but
    the aiding and abetting laws are Broad
    and it determined that a public Public
    Authority uh exception that’s built into
    statutes and that applied particularly
    to the murder statute because it talks
    about unlawful killing did not apply to
    the Drone strike so this is actually the
    way that the system should function the
    Department of Justice takes criminal law
    very seriously it runs it through the
    analysis very carefully with established
    principles it documents them it explains
    them and then the president can go
    forward in accordance with it and there
    is no risk of prosecution for that
    course of Activity thank you for your
    answers Justice Barrett Mr D I want to
    pick up with that Public Authority
    defense so I’m looking at the olc memo
    that David Baron wrote that you cited in
    your briefs and he describes the Public
    Authority defense citing the model Penal
    Code there are a few different
    definitions but I’ll just highlight this
    one um justifying conduct which is
    required or authorized by the law
    defining the duties or functions of a
    public office
    the law governing the armed services or
    lawful conduct of war or any other
    provision of law imposing a public duty
    that sounds a lot like dividing a line
    between official and private conduct it
    it’s I think it’s narrower and I
    recognize it’s a defense not an immunity
    but when we look at when you look at the
    definition of it are you acting within
    the scope of authority conferred by law
    or discharging a duty conferred by law I
    think it’s narrower than blasing game
    narrower than Nixon versus Fitzgerald
    but that’s what it sounds like to me do
    you agree or disagree you know just SP I
    certainly understand the intuition that
    when you act outside of your lawful
    Authority you’ve kind of gone in the
    Frolic and Detour you’re no longer
    carrying it out I don’t really think
    that that quite works for presidential
    activity the only way that he could have
    implemented the orders is by exercising
    his commander-in-chief authority over
    the Armed Forces or his authority to
    supervise the executive branch those
    seem like core executive acts to me
    there is such a possibility as an
    unlawful executive
    act I’m not sure that I understand your
    answer I mean I was thinking it seemed
    to me that in your briefs and today when
    you referred to the public Authority
    defense you said that’s one of the
    built-in protections and why immunity is
    not necessary because in some of these
    instances when the president takes such
    actions that you know the courts been
    asking you might this result in criminal
    prosecution you say well he could raise
    this Public Authority defense and so I’m
    saying isn’t this Public Authority
    defense if raised doesn’t it sound like
    a defense that says well I had I was
    authorized by law to discharge this
    function and therefore I acted lawfully
    therefore I acted lawfully and not
    criminally liable correct does that
    involve a look into motives kind of this
    is gets to what Justice Gorsuch was
    asking you could you say I was acting
    within the scope of my authority by
    granting a pardon removing a cabinet
    officer but then the Public Authority
    defense might not apply because you had
    a bad motive in doing so no I I I don’t
    think so J Barett I think that it
    operates based on objective facts
    disclosed to council Council then
    provides the advice in this case the
    Department of Justice and it it’s an
    objectively valid defense it’s a
    complete defense to prosecution so what
    would be so bad I mean one thing that
    strikes me as different well one thing
    that’s obviously different between the
    Public Authority defense and Immunity is
    an interlocutory appeal and having it
    resolved at the outset what would be so
    bad about having a question like that
    resolved at the threshold having it be
    an immunity the same kind of question
    that could be brought up as a defense
    later but have it be brought up at the
    threshold as an immunity and then an
    interlocutory appeal would be available
    and it would be a freedom from standing
    trial but not a a jet out not a get out
    of jail free card yes I I understand
    that and I think that if the court
    believed that that was the appropriate
    way to craft presidential protections it
    has the authority to craft procedural
    rules that Implement its Article 2 uh
    concerns that said uh Public Authority
    is we’re calling it a defense but under
    many statutes It’s actually an exception
    to liability itself and what you’re
    really talking about is trying the
    general issue and generally in criminal
    cases even cases that involve First
    Amendment issues like threats statutes
    the jury is the determinant of the fact
    act and I have a little bit of
    difficulty with the idea of trying the
    whole public authority issue separately
    to the judge and having that go up on
    interlocutory appeal with review of
    facts before you could ever get it
    Forward into a criminal case that said
    it if I would prefer a regime in which
    the court uh altered some of the
    procedural rules surrounding the
    president than a total absolute blanket
    immunity that takes away the the
    possibility of criminal prosecution even
    if it was a core violation of the
    statute in the teeth of attorney general
    advice and has no overriding public
    purose you think it has to be a jury
    question and I I mean I let’s see I
    wasn’t necessarily proposing actually
    treating it as a defense that was done
    at the outset and then subject to
    interlocutory appeal I was proposing
    what about an immunity doctrine that
    Drew from the public Authority defense
    that the Department of Justice thinks
    would otherwise apply so just just go
    with me on that for a minute why would
    it be so bad for it not to be a jury
    question I mean it seems to me that some
    of these article two concerns would be
    exacerbated by having it go to a jury
    rather than a judge so I I think some of
    them are uh judge questions that could
    be resolved on the face of the
    indictment if the Department of Justice
    ever returned an indictment that said
    the issuance of this pardon or this
    series of Pardons constituted
    obstruction of justice I have a little
    difficulty hypothesizing it but a motion
    could be made on the face of the
    indictment that says Article 2 precludes
    Congress from regulating these
    activities the indictment needs to be
    dismissed and if the court wish to
    attach to that kind of a rule
    interlocutory appeal then that that
    would be a a lesser Safeguard than the
    the one that my friend is proposing here
    other kinds of defenses though really do
    intersect with the general issue and for
    those I have a much greater uh time
    seeing how the court could Implement
    that and would there be costs in going
    to trial yes there is no perfect system
    here we are trying to design a system
    that preserves the effective functioning
    of the presidency and the accountability
    of a former president under the rule of
    law and the perfect system that
    calibrates all of those values probably
    has not been devised I think that the
    system that we have works pretty well
    maybe it needs some few ancillary rules
    it is different from the radical
    proposal of my friend I I agree let let
    me ask you about State
    prosecutions because if the president
    has some kind of immunity that’s
    implicit in Article 2 then that immunity
    would protect him in from State
    prosecutions as well a lot of the
    protections that you’re talking about
    are internal protections that the
    federal government has Protections in
    the Department of Justice which
    obviously are not applicable with the
    many many many many uh state and local
    jurisdictions across the country what do
    you have to say to that so that raises a
    supremacy clause issue and the court
    would run a supremacy clause analysis
    that would probably start with basic
    principles like mccullock versus
    Maryland the states do not have the
    authority to burden Federal functions
    and would then kind of move through in
    Reagle where the court said that a State
    murder prosecution of a federal official
    guarding a Supreme Court Justice and who
    fired a shot was not permissible if the
    court thought that you needed a more
    categorical rule for the states I think
    the supremacy clause certainly leaves it
    within the Court’s prerogative to
    determine that the president unlike all
    other officials deserves more of a
    robust Federal defense than what I have
    just descried it would still be a
    defense in in the states it wouldn’t be
    I mean that’s my point like the you know
    it’s one thing to to say well the
    president they’re not going to be these
    prosecutions that are politically
    motivated the things that Justice
    Kavanagh was referring to that might be
    the danger of of this system one thing
    that we have to worry about that might
    not carry the day but you know that’s a
    concern it’s totally different when you
    take it outside of the Department of
    Justice and its structures and then you
    throw it out elsewhere the idea across
    across the states the idea of an
    immunity I think has a lot more purchase
    if you’re talking about something that
    protects the former president from
    standing trial and the state and state
    and local level so I I I don’t know that
    you would have to design a system in
    which the president would have to stand
    trial at the state and local level it’s
    certainly within the Court’s Authority
    as a matter of supremacy clause law to
    find an immunity but we we have been
    talking here about at some length on the
    distinction between official acts and
    private acts yeah that will have to be
    determined by some sort of a process any
    immunity defense that the court
    announced
    can still be met by a state assertion
    that we’re Prosecuting private conduct
    you’re going to have to have some
    process I think having some legal
    process is not a reason to cast aside a
    Nuance system that actually looks at
    what protections are necessary as
    opposed to what would provide the
    absolute maximum insallation for former
    presidents even if we acknowledge that
    it’s highly prophylactic totally agree
    and I wasn’t actually contrasting the
    absolute immunity rule I was saying that
    if there were some sort of official
    private their consequences towards about
    making immunity okay and since you bring
    up the private act it’s my last question
    so I had asked Mr sour about on page 46
    and 47 of your brief yes you say even if
    the court were inclined to recognize
    some immunity for a former president’s
    official acts it should remand for trial
    because the indictment alleges
    substantial private conduct yes and you
    said that the private conduct would be
    sufficient yes the special counsel has
    expressed some concern for Speed and
    wanting to move forward so you know the
    normal process what Mr sour asked would
    be for us to remand if we decided that
    there were some official acts immunity
    and to let that be sorted out below it
    is another option for the special
    councel to just proceed based on the
    private conduct and drop the official
    conduct well well two things on that
    justar first first of all there’s really
    an integrated conspiracy here that had
    different components as alleged in the
    indictment working with with private
    lawyers to achieve the goals of the
    fraud and as I said before the the
    petitioner Reaching For His official
    powers to try to make the conspiracies
    more likely to succeed we would like to
    present that as an integrated picture to
    the jury so that it sees the sequence
    and the gravity of the conduct and why
    each step occurred that said if the
    court were to say that the fraudin
    elector scheme is private reaching out
    to State officials as a candidate is
    private trying to exploit the violence
    after January 6th by calling senators
    and saying please delay the
    certification proceeding is private
    campaign activity we still think
    contrary to what my friend said that we
    could introduce the interactions with
    the justice department the efforts to
    pressure the vice president for their
    evidentiary value as showing the
    defendants knowledge and intent and we
    would take a jury instruction that would
    say you may not not impose criminal
    culpability for the actions that he took
    however you may consider it in so far as
    it Bears on knowledge and intent that’s
    the usual rule with protected speech for
    example under Wisconsin versus Mitchell
    my friend analogizes this to the speech
    or debate clause but we don’t think the
    speech or debate clause has any
    applicability here it’s a very explicit
    constitutional protection that says uh
    senators and representatives shall not
    be questioned in any other place so it
    carries an evidentiary comp component
    that’s above and beyond whatever
    official act immunity he is seeking and
    the last thing I would say on this is we
    think that the concerns about the use of
    evidence of presidential conduct that
    might otherwise be official and subject
    to executive privilege is already taken
    care of by United States versus Nixon
    that balances the president’s interest
    and confidentiality against the need of
    the judicial system for all available
    facts to get to the truth and once that
    has been overcome we submit that
    evidence can be used even if culpability
    can’t rest on it thank you justice
    Jackson just to pick up where Justice
    Barrett left off I I think I heard you
    say that even if we decide here
    something a a rule that’s not the rule
    that you prefer um that is somehow
    separating out private from official
    acts and saying that that should apply
    here there’s sufficient uh allegations
    in the indictment in the government’s
    view that fall into the private acts
    bucket that the case should be allowed
    to proceed correct because in an
    ordinary case it wouldn’t be stopped
    just because some of the acts are
    allegedly IM immunized even if people
    agree that some are immunized if there
    are other acts that aren’t the case
    would go forward that is right all right
    um going back to the clear statement uh
    argument I I I’m struggling with that
    argument because my understanding was
    that when a charged criminal statute is
    read narrowly in the presidential
    context to not apply to the president um
    a constitutional question is being
    avoided so that you’re doing that to
    avoid having to deal with the
    Constitutional question so what is the
    Constitutional question that is being
    avoided in those kinds of situations a
    serious one this is just an application
    of this Court’s ordinary construction of
    criminal statutes that if there is an
    available interpretation that would
    avoid a serious constitutional question
    the Court’s preference is to and the
    nature I guess I’m going at what is what
    is my understanding is that what is
    being avoided in that situation is the
    question of whether a former president
    or you know can be held criminally
    liable for doing the alleged act that is
    being asserted in that statute
    consistent with the Constitution so we
    look at the statute it’s got some
    elements in it and we are saying well
    gez if this statute and elements apply
    to the president’s conduct in this
    situation we’d have to a answer the
    question can the president be held
    liable consistent with the Constitution
    for that behavior is that right so the
    first step in that analysis I just want
    to yes but the first step is is there
    ambiguity and these statutes apply to
    any person they apply to whoever there’s
    no ambiguity in those phrases this court
    in nardone versus United States
    concluded that similar words and any
    person apply to government officials all
    right well assume let’s just assume that
    we I guess I’m just trying to get at
    we’re avoiding a constitutional question
    if we do that in in the ordinary case
    and and what’s confusing to me about
    this case is that we’re not being asked
    to avoid the Constitutional question in
    fact the question of whether or not the
    president can be held liable consistent
    with the Constitution or does he have
    immunity is the question that’s being
    presented to us so I don’t understand
    how the clear statement kind of analysis
    even works it seems completely tological
    to me for us to hold that presidents
    cannot be prosecuted under any criminal
    statute without a clear statement from
    con uh Congress to avoid the question of
    whether or not the Constitution allows
    them to be prosecuted we’d have to have
    a reason right I mean we’ we’d have to
    have a rationale for applying the CLE
    clear statement rule I I think would
    have to have some rationale that’s not
    evident in either the existing Doctrine
    or the text and just one data point for
    the court in thinking about how the
    clear statement rule Works in United
    States versus Sun diamond is a case
    about gratuities that the court is
    probably familiar with Justice Galia
    wrote an opinion for a unanimous Court
    in which he used a hypothetical about
    what would happen if the president
    received a sports replica Jersey at a
    typical White House Event would that
    violate SE
    2011c and the court offered a
    construction that it had to be for
    because an official act to avoid that
    problem I think if there was such a
    well-received understanding that
    presidents are not included in general
    Federal Criminal Law uh unless the
    president is specifically named which he
    is not in section 2011 Justice Scalia
    would have thought of that and some
    member of the Court would have reacted
    and none did all right let me go on to
    ask about um what you take the
    petitioner’s position to be in this case
    because we’ve had a lot of talk about
    drawing the lines um Justice Kavanaugh
    Justice Gorsuch suggested that we should
    be thinking about blasing game and um
    that within the first we have private
    versus official and then within official
    now we have something about core acts
    versus other acts as we try to figure
    out you know at what level the president
    is going to have immunity but I took the
    petitioner’s argument in this case not
    to be inviting us to engage in that kind
    of analysis I thought he was arguing
    that all official acts get immunity and
    so I didn’t understand us to be um
    having to drill down on which official
    acts do and so my question is why isn’t
    it enough um for the purposes of this
    case given what the petitioner has
    argued to just answer the question of
    whether all official acts get immunity
    uh that that is enough and if the court
    answers that question the way that the
    government has submitted that resolves
    the case I want to make a clarification
    that I may have left the court with some
    uncertainty about the official act
    analysis that my friend is talking about
    is the Fitzgerald versus Nixon Outer
    Perimeter test which is extremely
    protective of the president it’s not
    looking at core vers versus ancillary
    it’s saying everything the president
    does is a target for private civil
    lawsuits that is not a great thing and
    therefore they are all cut off that’s an
    absolute immunity kind of concept right
    anything that’s official in the Outer
    Perimeter is not subject to liability
    that is right and so we don’t have to
    then go well okay we have the bucket of
    official now let’s figure out which
    within that might be subject to
    liability not on the theory of absolute
    immunity correct neither on the theory
    of absolute immunity or on our Theory uh
    on his theory everything’s protected on
    our Theory there is no immunity but this
    is where I would draw the distinction
    there are as applied constitutional
    challenges that you run through the
    Youngstown framework and this Court’s
    customary method of analysis and you
    determine whether there’s a infringement
    of Article 2 so what you’re saying is
    even if we reject the absolute immunity
    Theory it’s not as though the president
    is you know doesn’t have the opportunity
    to make the kinds of arguments that
    arise as at the level of you know this
    particular act or this particular
    statute has a problem in uh retrospect I
    think I hear you saying we should not be
    trying to in the abstract set up those
    boundaries ahead of time as a function
    of sort of blanket immunity allow each
    uh allegation to be brought and then we
    would decide in that context yes with
    with the additional note that petitioner
    has never made that argument and I think
    it would be up to a district court to
    decide whether to go that route at this
    point in the litigation he’s put all of
    his eggs in the absolute immunity basket
    all right and if we if we invite uh you
    know if we see the question presented as
    broader than that and we do say let’s
    engage in the core uh official versus
    not core and try to figure out the line
    um is this the right vehicle to hammer
    out that test I mean I I’d understood
    um that the most if not all but most of
    the allegations here there’s really no
    plausible argument that they would fall
    into core versus not such that they are
    immune we don’t think there are any core
    acts that have been alleged in the
    indictments that would be off limits as
    a matter of article two so if we were
    going to do this kind of analysis try to
    figure out what the line is we should
    probably wait for a vehicle that
    actually presents it in a way that
    allows us to test
    the different sides of the uh the
    standard that we’d be creating right I
    don’t see any need in this case for the
    court to embark on that analysis all
    right the final sort of uh set of
    questions that I have have to do with
    what I do take as a very legitimate
    concern about uh prosecutorial abuse
    about future presidents being um
    targeted uh for things that they have
    done in office I I I take that concern I
    think it’s a real thing but I wonder
    whether some of it might also be
    mitigated by the fact that existing
    administrations have a self-interest in
    uh protecting the presidency that they
    understand that if they go after the
    former guy soon they’re going to be the
    former guy and they will have created
    president that will be problematic so I
    wonder if you might comment on whether
    some of the caution from the justice
    department and the prosecutors and
    whatnot come
    from an understanding that they will
    soon be former presidents as well I
    think absolutely and I would locate this
    as a structural argument that’s built
    into the Constitution itself the
    executive branch I think as this court
    knows has executive branch interests
    that it at times asserts in opposition
    to Congress so that the proper
    functioning of the president is
    protected and I believe that that value
    would be operative and is operative in
    anything as momentous as charging a
    former president with a crime and I
    would also say I think and ask you to
    comment on you know pre presidents are
    concerned about being investigated and
    prosecuted and it chills to some extent
    their you know ability to uh do what
    they want in office and that’s a concern
    on one side but can can you comment on
    the concern about having a president
    unbounded while in office a president
    who knows that he does not have to
    ultimately uh follow the law because
    there is really nothing more than say
    political accountability in terms of of
    impeachment I mean we have amicus briefs
    here from Professor leaderman for
    example who says um you know a president
    would not be prohibited by Statute from
    perjuring himself under oath about
    official Matters from corruptly altering
    destroying or concealing documents to
    prevent them from being used in an
    official proceeding from warning others
    to commit perjury from bribing Witnesses
    or public officials and he goes on and
    on and on about the things that a
    president in office with the knowledge
    that they have no criminal
    accountability would do I see that as a
    concern that is at least equal to the
    president being worried so worried about
    criminal prosecution that he you know is
    a little bit Limited in his ability to
    function so can you talk about those
    competing concerns so Justice Jackson I
    think would be a sea change to announce
    a sweeping rule of immunity that no
    president has had or has needed I think
    we have also had a perfectly functioning
    system that has seen occasional episodes
    of presidential misconduct the nixen era
    is the paradigmatic one the indictment
    in this case alleges another for the
    most part I believe that the legal
    regime and the Constitutional regime
    that we have have works and to alter it
    poses more risks thank you thank you
    thank you Council rebuttle Mr
    sour I have nothing further your honor
    thank you councel councel the case is
    submitted the honorable court is now
    adjourned until Thursday the 9th of May
    at
    10:00 we’ve just been listening to the
    Supreme Court wrapping up oral arguments
    ments over whether presidents are immune
    to prosecution for crimes committed
    while in office this case could have
    major implications for the special
    council’s election interference case
    against former president Trump Trump’s
    attorneys argued that without
    presidential immunity from Criminal
    prosecution there can be no presidency
    as we know it they say if a president
    can be charged tried and imprisoned for
    decisions made in office every current
    president will face deao blackmail and
    extortion by political Rivals the doj’s
    attorney argued that Theory would
    immunize former presidents for criminal
    liability for bribery treason sedition
    murder and conspiring to fraudulently
    overturn election results to stay in
    power we heard the doj’s attorney also
    add that the framers of the Constitution
    didn’t include immunity in the
    Constitution because they quote Knew Too
    Well the dangers of a king who could do
    no wrong we have full team coverage on
    this historic supreme court hearing
    starting with Terry Moran our chief
    National correspondent who’s there
    outside the court Terry what stood out
    to you from these arguments
    well this was a good day for Donald
    Trump there’s no question about it uh he
    came in with his lawyers his team
    arguing that presidents should be
    absolutely immune from Criminal
    prosecution for any official act for
    anything that could be interpreted as at
    the outer perimeters of their official
    duties he didn’t get that but a lot of
    people thought that that argument would
    get laughed out of the Supreme Court it
    did not it was not hard to count to five
    votes for some version of the Trump
    claim essentially going back to the
    trial court and saying try to
    distinguish here what is a real official
    act uh compared with what is a private
    act by Donald Trump and and that frankly
    will delay this trial it does feel like
    that’s where the the court was headed
    and that’s uh that is certainly a win
    for Donald Trump not complete but a good
    day for Donald Trump and I want to bring
    in our legal contributor Asha Rapa
    because Asha just as Clarence Thomas
    started by asking Trump’s attorney about
    the sord of presidential immunity why is
    that so important to this
    case well sorry Thomas is an originalist
    and so he’s looking to the text of the
    Constitution uh and so they’re trying to
    look to where they’re deriving this uh
    idea of absolute immunity we didn’t hear
    from him for much of the rest of the
    argument um but I agree with Terry that
    you know Trump looks like he is set to
    get a victory at least in the timing of
    how this will all unfold his lawyers
    went in really doubling down on what is
    essentially an authoritarian argument I
    mean it was quite astonishing uh his
    lawyer said that he the president could
    literally order the military to uh do a
    coup against the government and
    potentially be immune from prosecution
    um and I don’t think the justices are
    going to buy that uh but they did seem
    to be wanting to split the hairs between
    official and non-official acts not
    necessar for this case but because they
    claim that they were worried about the
    precedential value and how it’s going to
    apply in future cases justices were also
    very focused on how to distinguish
    between official acts and private
    conduct and Justus as soda mayora at one
    point asked whether president would be
    immune if he decides his rival is a
    corrupt person and Order someone to
    assassinate him and Trump’s attorney
    sour said that it would depend on the
    hypothetical but that it could be an
    official act so what do you make that
    and his other responses to that whole
    line of questioning about official
    versus private
    acts well it’s all the logical and of
    his argument that Trump that uh
    presidents as a general rule must have
    absolute immunity from Criminal
    prosecution so he got marched into this
    parade of horribles right that he just
    embraced could the president order the
    assassination of his political rival
    could the president stage a coup uh if
    he had lost an election and essentially
    he had to say given the basis of his
    argument yes he did say there are
    structural and and deeply human aspects
    of the American government that would
    stop that that parade of horribles that
    essentially the defense department
    wouldn’t participate in the military
    coup that you that people wouldn’t help
    him assassinate his political rival but
    the logic of the Trump position is that
    that if the president is absolutely
    immune from Criminal prosecution for any
    official act well then because the
    president might need the authority as
    President Obama exercised to order the
    killing of an American citizen engaged
    in terrorism overseas perhaps that could
    be extended if the Rival was a dangerous
    human being you could just invent the
    hypothetical but he was stuck with that
    position what was striking uh was that
    it wasn’t greeted with outrage by uh by
    the entire court that it people kind of
    yeah okay well that that makes sense
    given your position uh it is not going
    to be the way this case comes out I
    think the case is likely to come out in
    some kind of Middle Ground
    distinguishing between what’s a truly
    official ACT versus what’s this a
    private act by Donald Trump or any other
    president uh but it’s a sign of how that
    argument went that he that he accepted
    those propositions and uh went on with
    his argument and I want to bring in our
    chief Washington correspondent Jonathan
    Carl because Jonathan Justice Kavanagh
    also asked about next steps and sour
    said that the district court should need
    to now determine what parts of this
    indictment should be considered official
    acts and which parts are related to
    private act so how would that impact the
    timing of this case if that were to
    happen given we’re already a month past
    over a month past the original trial
    date and less than seven months to the
    election well look the the the Trump
    strategy for since the beginning of this
    entire process of all of legal cases
    against him has been delay delay delay
    and that would undoubtedly significantly
    delay this case if uh the uh the lower
    courts had to go in and determine this
    before a trial uh could go forward it
    seems to me that you’re getting to the
    point where it is impossible based on
    the calendar to have a trial of uh of
    Donald Trump on the January 6 case
    before the election and of course uh
    Trump has made it quite clear that if he
    were to win that election there is no
    way that this case goes forward he would
    fire the special counsel he would
    instruct his justice department uh to
    drop it uh so really what we’re looking
    at is if you have a process that is now
    set up that sends this once again back
    to the lower courts before a trial can
    commence you have a situation where
    Donald Trump May well never be held to
    account in a criminal context uh for
    what happened on January 6th uh but you
    know I’m not sure that’s where this is
    going uh I thought that one of the very
    interesting uh uh things that happened
    during uh the the the the the first part
    of this hearing was Amy Cony Barrett
    establishing that there are a whole
    series of uh of allegations in the
    special council’s indictment that are
    even Trump’s attorneys acknowledging
    private acts and therefore not immune
    from prosecution so you know you could
    have a a situation where the case is
    able to go forward um and in the process
    of laying out the case uh they’re they
    would be a question of what’s private
    and what’s public um but look if if if
    this if the Supreme Court does not act
    quickly on this and uh resolve it in
    such a way that allows the case to go
    forward the trial itself to go forward I
    I I I do not think you will see this
    case uh happen uh before the
    presidential election and perhaps never
    and I want to bring that point to our
    chief justice correspondent Pierre
    Thomas because Pierre if Trump’s lawyers
    here are arguing that private acts can
    still be prosecuted just not whatever is
    considered official and you have one of
    the Justice here saying that there are
    several things in this indictment that
    would be considered private acts what’s
    the ultimate endgame well let me just
    say this this was fascinating to listen
    to for roughly two plus nearly two hours
    and where I agree with John Carl is the
    following everything to me is built on
    how long it takes for the Supreme Court
    to resolve what they’re going to do uh
    because this issue isue of the private
    acts versus the official acts is a core
    issue because you had president Trump’s
    own attorney ackowledge that sever
    several of the allegations listed in the
    indictment against former president
    Trump could be considered private acts
    and one of the uh justices raised the
    possibility that the case could move
    forward based simply on the justice
    department Prosecuting president Trump’s
    based on those private acts so the a lot
    of you know things to be determined on
    the timing again the most important
    thing is how does long does it take for
    the Supreme Court to make this ruling
    what will be in uh the final argument
    but I do think that one of the things we
    can take away from this case is the
    notion that a former president or a
    sitting president could commit bribery
    kill someone do these acts and not be
    somehow held into account I didn’t get
    the sense that the court was buying that
    at all
    and I want to bring in presidential
    historian Mark upov uh to comment on
    another part of this exchange because
    Mark at one point Justice Jackson
    suggested that previous presidents have
    operated under the assumption that they
    could have potential prosecution for
    unlawful acts sour Trump’s attorney said
    he disagreed with that he believes they
    operated under the assumption that they
    had immunity and then later the Justice
    Department’s attorney said prior
    presidents haven’t been charged in the
    past because there were no crimes to
    prosecute what do you make of that
    argument and what’s at stake for the
    office of the presidency as the Justice
    consider these arguments and the
    president this case could set well I’m
    I’m deeply concerned Ian about the the
    the precedent that this could set what
    does it mean to have a far more robust
    executive branch of the government our
    government is exists because of a
    balance of power between the three
    branches of government the legislative
    branch the judicial branch and the
    executive branch and the executive
    branch has become increasingly powerful
    since the middle of the the last century
    it’s become a more and more powerful
    branch of government so what does it
    mean if a president is given immunity uh
    to act as he wishes and and if what what
    is of particular concern is what does it
    mean to the peaceful transfer of power
    could a president an incumbent president
    successfully block uh a fairly elected
    president as president Trump tried to do
    in 2020 so that is what our system of
    government is based on that was is what
    American democracy is about a peaceful
    transfer of power what is this immunity
    what if this went through what would it
    mean for the future of our nation would
    we have American democracy uh our
    liberal uh uh de democracy as we have it
    today there are big questions around
    this Diane and there are major
    precedents this that this would set in
    motion Asha does the mere existence of
    this case the first time a president of
    is being prosecuted this way open the
    door for future prosecutions to happen
    now and do the justices have to take
    that into consideration when deciding
    this well many of the justices were
    homing in on exactly that question that
    this would somehow open the floodgates
    uh there were several justices including
    Alo and boruch who uh seemed skeptical
    of the good faith of the criminal
    justice system which is a little
    interesting since in other contexts they
    are often uh not so skeptical of the
    Criminal Justice System but they seem to
    be looking ahead and saying we need to
    Fashion a rule one thing I will say is
    at the very end there was a distinction
    that was made that I wonder if might
    prove to be a little bit of an offramp
    whether it’s at the district court or
    for the justices which is uh that this
    uh special counsel’s lawyer said look to
    the extent that there are official acts
    mentioned in the indictment he’s not
    being prosecuted for those act for for
    engaging in those acts those acts are
    there as evidence as evidentiary value
    for his motive and intent for doing
    these other things um and I think that
    was a really important distinction and
    it may come into play again in their
    opinion or if it gets remanded to the
    district
    court so Terry sometimes during these
    oral arguments we can get a sense of how
    some of the Justice are leaning by the
    questions that they ask so did anything
    stick out to you from these arguments in
    in that respect and what are you
    watching for
    next risky Venture but there’s no
    question that what John Carl has already
    pointed out Pier Thomas as well Amy con
    Barrett was up there not wanting to
    embrace a robust theory of presidential
    immunity criminal immunity she was
    looking for that middle ground that some
    of what is alleged in this indictment
    some of the parade of horribles might be
    official acts others private and so the
    most likely result is as Asha just said
    a remand send it back down to the trial
    court and say before you proceed figure
    out what crimes in here under are the
    guidelines that we write qualify as
    official acts others qualify as private
    acts uh that would be the way the
    argument seemed to go they might write
    it differently if it does go that way
    there’s no trial before the
    election Thomas Terry Moran and Asha
    Rapa thank you and we will have more
    coverage of the supreme court hearing
    and the hush money trial against former
    president Trump right after the break
    stay with
    us but there’s some things that are so
    fundamentally evil that they have to be
    protected against one could say that
    when the president is using the
    trappings of his office to achieve a
    personal uh uh gain then he’s actually
    not acting officially I’m sure You’
    thought of lots of hypotheticals where a
    president could say I’m using an
    official power and yet the president
    uses it in an absolutely outrageous
    manner if there’s no threat of criminal
    prosecution what prevents the president
    from just doing whatever he
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    here right now on ABC News live a
    historic day across multiple courtrooms
    Donald Trump the focus of coinciding
    legal battles in Washington and New York
    the Supreme Court just hearing arguments
    on a Monumental question are presidents
    immune from prosecution for crimes
    committed while in office Donald Trump
    himself inside a Manhattan Criminal
    Courthouse while it’s all happening
    listening to testimony in his criminal
    hush money trial over those alleged
    efforts to catch and kill un flattering
    stories about him before the 2016
    election and lying on the books to cover
    it up we have live team coverage of the
    former president’s legal battles and the
    impact it all could have on the race for
    the White
    House good afternoon everyone I’m Kira
    Phillips this is our top story this hour
    Donald J Trump versus the United States
    it’s against the backdrop of an already
    devises 2024 presidential campaign the
    US Supreme Court just heard arguments
    about the former president’s claim of
    absolute immunity the outcome could
    determine whether Trump faces a federal
    trial this year on four felony counts
    pressed by special counsel Jack Smith
    the justices appearing skeptical of
    totally resolving the former president’s
    immunity claim take a
    listen all right we are going to work on
    getting that sound and we will bring it
    to you we do of course have Team
    coverage starting off with my uh
    co-anchor and Senior National
    correspondent Terry Moran he’s just
    outside the Supreme Court there we also
    have our senior reporter kathern falers
    our contributor and presidential
    historian mark up grve also our
    contributor and assistant Dean at the
    Yale Jackson School of Law Asha Rapa all
    right Terry let’s start with you just
    your takeaways from the arguments today
    well was a fascinating argument K
    because it was an unprecedented claim an
    extraordinary Claim by uh Donald Trump
    and his legal team that President should
    have Absol absolute immunity from
    Criminal prosecution for any official
    act they took as president official act
    being defined within the farthest outer
    perimeters of their duties no
    president’s ever claimed that presidents
    have recognized that presidents could be
    tried for for crimes that’s why Gerald
    Ford pardoned Richard Nixon because he
    recognized president could be tried
    that’s not what Donald Trump wants and
    the bottom line he got part of what he
    wanted it sounded like the the
    conservatives on the court were
    remarkably sympathetic to the notion
    uh that President should have some form
    of immunity not the whole thing that
    Trump was asking for but there are there
    are some things the president might do
    that are official that might be
    prosecuted in in after he leaves office
    that need immunity and things that were
    being raised uh the the notion uh that
    was raised in the courtroom that George
    W Bush’s case to the American people to
    the Congress for going to war in in Iraq
    maybe that was false could that
    prosecuted uh the killing of anir alaki
    a terrorist in Yemen born in the United
    States an American citizen by President
    Obama could that be prosecuted the
    bottom line here uh they will probably
    send this case back down to the trial
    court with instructions to distinguish
    what in the indictment is an official
    act by President Donald Trump what in
    the indictment was a private act by
    Citizen and candidate Donald Trump and
    if they do that it means this trial
    likely won’t happen before the
    election so John Carl let me bring you
    into this discussion you know the timing
    of this case is extraordinary with less
    than 6 months until the November
    election I mean Trump could easily
    Escape judgment before the election and
    if he wins it could be seen as a get out
    of jail free
    card yeah look if this gets sent back to
    the lower courts if there is more uh to
    be done before the trial can actually
    commence uh if the Supreme Court
    basically says uh that uh you know that
    they are not in a position to uh to to
    resolve this in a way that allows the
    trial to get started right away uh this
    trial is not going to happen um I mean
    the Supreme Court needs to if the trial
    is to happen before the election the
    Supreme Court needs to act uh quickly by
    quickly I mean you know if you just look
    at the calendar uh by by the end of by
    the end of May uh really really at the
    latest uh and even then you’re looking
    at a trial uh that would likely take
    place uh in the fall like as we’re going
    into the presidential campaign so if
    there is any further significant delay
    here uh I don’t see how this trial uh
    can happen before the election and given
    that Donald Trump has made it perfectly
    clear uh what he thinks of uh this uh of
    of this indictment uh if Donald Trump
    wins
    he’s going to fire Jack Smith the first
    day he’s in office uh he’s going to
    instruct his justice department uh that
    this trial is to this case is to be
    dropped and the bottom line uh Donald
    Trump will not be held criminally
    accountable uh for what happened uh in
    the days leading up to January 6th and
    on January 6th itself that’s pretty
    astonishing when you think of what the
    outcome could be and Katherine uh what’s
    not astonishing we expected this uh
    Trump is in New York of course for his
    hush money trial and he continues to
    speak rep uh reporters saying the same
    thing over and over again about that the
    judge is not allowing him to be here in
    our nation’s capital for the Supreme
    Court uh case let’s take a listen to
    what he
    said I would have loved to have been
    there but this judge would not allow
    that to happen I should be there but he
    wouldn’t allow it to happen I think he
    puts himself above the Supreme Court
    which is unfortunate isn’t it but the
    argument on immunity is very important
    the president has to have
    immunity did the judge really put
    himself above the Supreme Court here
    Katherine I don’t think that the judge
    is putting himself above the Supreme
    Court the judge is essentially following
    the rules of criminal trial and Criminal
    Court Trump has to be there every day
    for his criminal trial unlike before
    where he didn’t have to show up uh to
    pre-trial hearings for example that clip
    you played was of trump going into the
    courtroom earlier today prior to the
    Supreme Court arguments he just walked
    out of that New York courtroom again
    avoided the camera didn’t speak to
    cameras and he couldn’t listen to these
    arguments Kira he was sitting in a
    courtroom in New York as you mentioned
    so I’m sure now his lawyers are briefing
    him on the arguments and I’m sure he
    will have something to say after he
    learns more about what transpired at the
    Supreme Court and Asha just to follow up
    on what John Carl said you know will the
    justices carve out any kind of immunity
    in the criminal context you think
    well they certainly seem to be looking
    in that direction at least the
    conservative justices they seem to be
    saying you know it’s not so much this
    case we’re worried about what could
    happen to all the presidents down the
    road and we need to Fashion some sort of
    bright line rule um and so you know they
    could come up with some sort of test on
    how you determine what’s an official ACT
    versus a private act you know whether
    they’ll inquire into motive or whether
    it’s going to be an objective test you
    know and if they did that as uh Terry
    mentioned it will definitely delay the
    January 6 case and K I’ll also mention
    that Trump has raised his immunity
    argument in his uh maral Lago case with
    the classified documents uh and in the
    Georgia case where he’s been indicted um
    and so you know even if they’re thinner
    like for example in the classified
    documents case which mostly took place
    after he left office it could put a kink
    in the plan in those prosecutions as
    well to the extent that when those start
    moving forward if there’s a fact finding
    inquiry that has to happen so this could
    have repercussions for not just the
    January 6 case but others as well so
    Mark let’s just talk about the fact that
    we have a former president asking for
    immunity from his crimes that he
    committed in office it it’s it’s not
    only
    unprecedented it is so extraordinary on
    so many
    levels absolutely Kira this just simply
    hasn’t happened before and and uh you
    heard Terry Moran referenced Watergate
    earlier and and Richard Nixon Richard
    Nixon probably would have been convicted
    for obstruction of justice charges had
    it not been for the pardon he got from
    Gerald Ford so it was very clear that a
    president was responsible was was would
    be held accountable for anything he did
    that was outside of the law we’ve always
    made that assumptions not
    only for our around our presidents but
    around any any official who is serving
    in our government uh whether they be
    elected or otherwise that is again one
    of the Hallmarks of American democracy
    our our accountability uh our our
    transparency and so this is stunning on
    many levels uh not the least of which is
    is the precedent it would set for Donald
    Trump’s or or or Joe Biden’s successors
    what does this mean for presidents of
    the future if if Joe Biden were to get
    reelected what would would it mean for
    him what would it mean for those who
    would follow him into office so there
    there are there’s a lot at stake in this
    case here Kira but as you said it’s one
    more thing from Donald Trump that is
    absolutely
    unprecedented appreciate you all
    definitely uh is changing the shape of
    the presidency for sure from our
    nation’s capital now to downtown
    Manhattan Donald Trump sitting at the
    defense table as we mentioned for day
    three now of witness testimony in his
    criminal hush money trial former
    National inquire publisher David pecker
    takes the stand once again with more
    testimony all about those hush money
    payments that are at the center of this
    trial the former president delivering
    his morning remarks in the hallway as
    you saw there uh of the courthouse just
    before the proceedings began and he
    continued to push those claims that none
    of this would be happening if he weren’t
    running for
    president my constitutional rights have
    been taken away from me uh but every
    single expert every legal scholar every
    respected scholar has said this is no
    case there is no case
    here but there is a case and that’s why
    he’s in the courtroom let’s bring in our
    senior investigative correspondent Aaron
    kki now who’s outside Court along with
    our legal contributor and trial attorney
    Brian buckmire Aaron uh David pecker
    back on the stand uh for the third day
    let’s talk about the biggest takeaway
    from his testimony so
    far third day on the witness stand for
    David pecker and his first mention of
    stormmy Daniels who he said is or was a
    porn star and Kira pecker recalled being
    out to dinner with his wife on a
    Saturday night in early October 2016 he
    got an urgent call from one of his
    editors he said informing him that
    Stormy Daniels was shopping a story
    about a sexual trist with Donald Trump
    which he of course has long denied and
    Dylan Howard said there have been a lot
    of denials but this story is true on the
    phone with Michael Cohen David pcker
    said he advised Cohen got to buy up this
    story because the national Inquirer
    couldn’t it had already spent $30,000 on
    a doorman’s unfounded Claim about a
    trump L child and
    $150,000 on Karen mcdougall’s story of a
    year-long relationship with Trump and
    pcker said I’m not a bank Cohen hem and
    haod he said but finally pcker advised
    him you better buy this up because if
    you don’t and it gets out the boss
    meaning Trump would be
    angry and Brian on the stand pcker said
    that he believed Trump knew about these
    payments uh to buy Karen mcdougall’s
    silence uh the the the Playboy Playmate
    and all those allegations of the two of
    them having an affair that’s a pretty
    big admission for someone who had not
    said anything about this case until
    now well I’m attorney I probably say it
    could be a big admission because we
    haven’t got through cross examination as
    yet and so for example if pecker gets up
    there on cross-examination and is asked
    well why do you believe believe that
    Donald Trump knew about these um
    conversations knew about this story and
    it isn’t proven up through cross and
    through what he says or someone else
    takes a s and say no Donald Trump didn’t
    know about this this was just Michael
    Cohen’s own making something that the
    defense is probably going to want to
    push here then it’s going to be a battle
    of those two statements who do you
    believe more Becker or whoever has
    contradicting information but if that
    statement stays as it is now absolutely
    you’re right very damaging for the
    former president all right well Aaron
    Trump has been named uh and an
    unindicted co-conspirator now
    conspirator rather in two other state
    cases update us on
    that it’s an extraordinary 24 hours in
    the legal life of Donald Trump he has
    been named an unindicted co- conspirator
    in two state level cases about election
    interference and fake elector schemes
    one in Michigan and one in Arizona where
    some of his top advisers have actually
    been charged with bribery and forgery
    and conspiracy talking about Rudy
    Giuliani Mark Meadows Trump’s onetime
    Chief of Staff in the White House even
    Boris epin his legal adviser who’s here
    with him in this courtroom today after
    being criminally charged in Arizona uh
    the the former president as an
    unindicted co-conspirator isn’t going to
    face any any charges here but it the
    indictment in Arizona says that he was
    part of this scheme to keep him in
    office even though Joe Biden won Arizona
    in
    2020 Aaron kerki Brian buckmire thank
    you both coming up bombshell ruling why
    New York’s highest court overturned the
    rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
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    Weinstein whenever news breaks we are
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    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
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    how do billionaire sound sounds good to
    me the Moose started chasing a dog first
    thing in the morning America this
    morning America’s number one early
    morning news on ABC News
    live glad you’re streaming with us we
    are following breaking news for you this
    hour uh we want to take you to New York
    now where the state’s highest court has
    overturned the rape conviction of movie
    producer Harvey Weinstein the New York
    Court of Appeals finding the trial judge
    prejudiced Weinstein with improper
    rulings including a decision to let
    women testify about allegations that
    were not part of the case Weinstein was
    a well-known powerful man as you know
    within the entertainment industry and
    prosecutors say that he abused his power
    to take advantage of an of a number of
    aspiring female actors like to Co coers
    them into unwanted sexual encounters
    Einstein was arrested in 2018 and
    charged with rape and criminal sexual
    assault he was found guilty in 2020 of
    both those felonies prosecutors say the
    testimony of those women other than
    those whose claims form the basis of the
    criminal charges spoke to Weinstein’s
    State of Mind to use forceable
    compulsion spokesperson for Weinstein
    saying they are happily surprised in
    studying the ruling that Weinstein is
    also convicted of sex crimes in Los
    Angeles and sentenced to 16 years in
    prison there because he’s already
    convicted in California he will not be
    released but instead transferred to the
    custody of prison authorities in
    California there’s a lot uh to discuss
    here let’s bring in our contributor and
    former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
    Boyce also our legal contributor Brian
    buckmeier Bob first to you I mean you
    were the lead investigator on this case
    against Weinstein there in New York what
    is your reaction uh to this
    decision uh it’s disgust mostly we put a
    lot of work into this thing and when you
    look at it this is a this was a strategy
    that’s got this overturn not the
    witnesses they found them in credible
    and did a great job in heroic stand on
    testifying against Mr Weinstein so it’s
    a difficult time for them to do it
    they’re gonna have to do it again and
    it’s not fair to them to go through all
    that through all that testimony in that
    public Clare but that’s what’s gonna
    happen so uh everybody’s a lot very
    upset in New York right now about this
    Brian what do you think I mean what what
    played into this appeals court decision
    you think
    so looking at the decision and also
    being one of the attorneys who sat and
    watched this trial it was the fact that
    too many what we call Malo Witnesses or
    uncharged bad act Witnesses meaning that
    they were alleged victims in a case but
    none of their testimony was attributed
    to a charge they were able to testify uh
    to at length and the the sorry the court
    saw that the judge in the trial made an
    erroneous decision allowing that and the
    issue is that he might have been
    convicted because of the propensity
    information not necessarily the
    allegations that came out and so to
    Bob’s Point yeah the investigation was
    great the Witnesses were strong but the
    strategy in which the prosecutors went
    about this and also the fact that uh
    Weinstein might not have been able to
    testify because of the evidence against
    him the court said that it has to be
    reversed so Bob The Manhattan DA’s
    office could decide to retry him what’s
    the likelihood that that could happen
    given today’s decision by the appeals
    court and do you think it’s a good idea
    oh K I believe he has to this was a
    foundational case to the me T me uh two
    movement and it started everything um s
    of domino things of people in power
    abusing women so I can’t see how he
    doesn’t do it and I think he’s already
    committed to it already however that’s
    gonna be take a while bear in mind that
    Mr Weinstein is wanted to do 16 years
    out in California so he’s not getting
    out of jail but these things can’t go we
    can’t let these things go past he has to
    be
    retried Brian if you were on the case
    and if we do see a retrial and and and
    that was you um having to make an
    argument in court this time around for
    Weinstein I mean what happens what does
    he
    say well I think the argument is is that
    the number of uncharged Witnesses or
    uncharged alleged victims that testified
    was too high so now from a defense
    standpoint it’s a re-evaluation of the
    case uh to Bob’s point the the the
    victims and we’ll call them victims even
    though the case was overturned and
    because they were found to be victims by
    the jury they were believed and so the
    question becomes is will their testimony
    lack um any kind of strength because
    they won’t have four other women that
    are also going to testify in a similar
    way or will you have a potential defense
    here because it may be fewer alleged
    victims testify it looks a little bit
    better for the defense here but the only
    question is how much
    better all right Bob Brian appreciate it
    thanks so much coming up all those
    protests happening on campuses across
    the us we’re going to take you to where
    those demonstrations are popping up and
    calming down
    [Music]
    next what does it take to be the most
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    live developing this hour new protest
    amid the Israel Hamas war encampments of
    anti-war protesters popping up on
    campuses from coast to coast more than a
    dozen people arrested at the University
    of Maryland today where students joined
    the protest Movement by staging a now
    4-day sit in for Palestinians then in
    Atlanta protesters clashing with police
    on Emery University’s campus even
    reports of getting tased Georgia State
    Troopers also making several arrests
    there let’s bring in our Phil Lipoff
    he’s been following all the developments
    for us from coast to coast let’s start
    with the University of Maryland just
    outside of Washington DC here what
    happened at this sit in so K over the
    past 4 days of protesting at the
    University of Maryland it has been
    relatively peaceful we say relatively
    compared to other protests we’ve seen
    we’ve seen about a dozen arrests as you
    mentioned today uh but for the most part
    it’s been a sit in to show solidarity
    with the hundred or so protesters we
    already saw arrested at Colombia here in
    New York City and to make demands that
    UMD divest from Israel in every way some
    of the students there with very close
    and personal ties to
    Gaza all of our family is in Raa so
    they’re under bombardment they’re having
    the issues with food they don’t have
    food they don’t have water uh their
    houses are being bombed and our
    relatives have been being killed just
    want Maryland University of Maryland to
    just recognize that like hey I do exist
    I need their support um I need them like
    I would love for them to divest I don’t
    want my money or tuition money to go
    towards like war and killing
    people and K on the other side of that
    you have Jewish students at all of these
    campuses who report ABC news that they
    feel uh you know threatened and
    uncomfortable and unwelcomed on campus
    when some of the protesters are using
    words like you know
    genocide all right let’s go to Emory
    University now in Atlanta and you know
    we we’ve heard um the strong language we
    heard it yesterday as these protests
    were taking place that calply USC uh
    Columbia University and and hearing uh
    even the house Speaker Mike Johnson
    talking about uh hearing the students
    yelling and profanities and talking
    about genocide and and he was extremely
    concerned about the Jewish students they
    feeling threatened and intimidated um
    and now we have protests popping up in
    Atlanta on Emer University’s campus and
    and they turned violent apparently so
    what
    happened well I mean you mentioned other
    campuses says we’ve seen 100 people
    arrested overnight at Emerson USC 93
    Yale 45 the University at Emory says a
    few dozen people actually came on to
    campus Kira they say were not members of
    the school Community Outsiders who they
    say then set up tents on the quad and
    then began to clash with police as you
    see as police said in and take those
    tents away because like on many campuses
    most campuses you can’t just set up
    tents on an encampment or occupy a
    building for that matter at Northwest
    University in Illinois dozens of
    students have set up a tent encampment
    there and are calling it a free Gaza
    liberated Zone the problem is none of
    these encampments are seen as liberated
    space of course by the schools that they
    are happening at a Northwestern says the
    tents are a violation of school policy
    and when police moved in to take them
    down protesters linked arms as you see
    here to try to prevent police uh from
    doing their job and today at Princeton
    in New Jersey the university says two
    students have been arrested for tres
    passing students there looking for
    Princeton as well to divest from doing
    any kind of business with Israel even
    academically they’d like a lot of these
    schools to divest from semester abroad
    programs with schools in Israel uh also
    to show support for members uh of other
    protest areas that were arrested already
    by uh police Kira all right stay on top
    of it Phil thanks so much and thanks to
    all of you for streaming with us I’m
    Kira Phillips the news never stops as
    you can see and neither do we we’ll be
    right back more news on the other side
    [Music]
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    tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
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    begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
    plus tornado severe weather the 10
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    sunshine right now in ABC News live a
    historic day across multiple courtrooms
    Donald Trump the focus of coinciding
    legal battles in Washington and New York
    the Supreme Court just hearing arguments
    on a Monumental question are presidents
    immune from prosecution for crimes
    committed while in office but Donald
    Trump inside a Manhattan Criminal
    Courthouse listening to testimony in his
    criminal hush money trial over those
    alleged efforts to catch and kill and
    flattering stories before the 2016
    election and lying on the books to cover
    it all up we have live team coverage of
    the former president’s legal battles and
    the impact it could have on the race for
    the White House come November good
    afternoon everyone I’m Kira Phillips as
    you can see it is our top our top story
    this hour Donald J Trump versus the
    United States it’s against the backdrop
    of an already divisive 2024 presidential
    campaign and the US Supreme Court just
    heard arguments about the former
    president’s claim of absolute immunity
    the outcome could determine whether
    Trump actually faces a federal trial
    this year on four felony counts pressed
    by special counsel Jack Smith the
    justices appearing skeptical of the
    former president’s absolute immunity
    claim take a
    listen if someone with those kinds of
    powers the most powerful person in the
    world with the greatest amount of
    authority um could go into office
    knowing that there would be no potential
    penalty for committing crimes I’m trying
    to understand what the disincentive is
    from turning the Oval Office into um you
    know the the the the seat of criminal
    activity in this country if the
    potential for criminal liability is
    taken off the table wouldn’t there be a
    significant risk that future residents
    would be emboldened to commit crimes
    with abandon while they’re in
    office we’ve got live team coverage
    starting off with senior Washington
    correspondent Deon DWI who’s outside the
    Supreme Court right there Devin you know
    much of the arguments from Trump’s
    Attorney John sour and questions from
    the justices centered on what amounts to
    an official act let’s just talk about
    why that is so crucial to the core of
    this case
    and presidential Powers comes down to
    what are under Article 2 considered
    official acts certain certain actions by
    the Supreme Court are deemed so
    essential they’re protected from any
    prosecution or distraction during the
    time the president is in office and
    thereafter so today that’s so much of
    the uh debate focused on whether or not
    what’s alleged against Donald Trump
    constitutes official or private acts
    means bottom line Kira that it’s it’s
    going to have to go back to a lower
    court uh for some some sort of
    arbitration of what is and isn’t in play
    here that’s good news for Donald Trump
    that’s the big takeaway today is that it
    seems likely that while the Supreme
    Court is going to reject his assertion
    of absolute immunity they’re going to
    leave it to a lower court perhaps to
    sort out what sorts of actions alleged
    could be prosecuted Kira so Trump is
    convicted well I guess Mark do we have
    mark up to
    Grove okay good so Mark let me ask you I
    mean you’re a presidential historian
    here at this point if Trump is convicted
    in this case you know would it make any
    difference if if he’s convicted in this
    case uh yeah it probably would uh if
    he’s if he’s convicted in the the case
    relating to the hush I’m sorry C the
    hush money are you talking
    about what that was not geared to you
    and I apologize why don’t we look at
    just after what Devon laid out with
    regard to the arguments that we heard
    today and let’s talk about the possible
    outcome um of of of the decision prior
    to uh the decision that will be made
    prior to November uh and the election um
    let’s let’s look at
    both both both scenarios here um if this
    goes in his favor if it doesn’t go in
    his favor prior to November 2024
    sorry Mark not at all there’s so much
    confusion right now and I apologize not
    at all uh I I think the the the concern
    is for me just looking at this as an
    American citizen let alone uh a
    presidential historian car is is what
    does this mean if Donald Trump is
    considered immune from his actions on
    January 6 what does it mean for the
    future of our country what does it mean
    for future presidents as they consider
    the transition of power that is a a
    Hallmark of American democracy the
    peaceful transfer of power that’s what
    makes our nation different uh Donald
    Trump has been very successful in
    delaying uh a decision around this this
    is one more legal tactic that has kept
    his legal fate at Bay um so so it would
    be very interest interesting to see what
    happens in this case Kira but uh not
    only for Donald Trump but for the H the
    future of our nation as it relates to
    our nation’s highest office the
    presidency uh again we are a nation that
    holds our ele elected officials
    accountable and that is always applied
    to our highest office that of the
    president of the United States Asha what
    do you make of the Supreme Court’s
    timing in this case and how it could
    actually shape the presidency as we know
    it well Kara let’s look at what this
    case is about this is about someone who
    allegedly used the awesome powers of his
    office uh to keep himself in power and
    to engage in illegal acts that impacted
    other branches of government the
    question here is will he be held
    accountable and will even voters know
    about the full breadth of that conduct
    before they go to the polls and possibly
    put him back in the office where he will
    once again have those enormous levers of
    power uh and I’ll add that those powers
    would
    include basically stopping all of these
    investigations the federal ones at least
    in their tracks um so it’s sort of you
    know this kind of self-perpetuating
    thing and of course if he gets into
    office uh without this being resolved uh
    there’s really no constraint on him
    being able to do the same thing or even
    more again especially given the uh
    expansive theory that his lawyers
    presented in court today
    Devon can I ask you a question just
    about the Supreme Court and the fact
    that some of these justices a number of
    these justices uh you know were
    appointed uh by by the former president
    um we haven’t really talked about that I
    mean you you’ve seen a number of critics
    out there saying how do we know the
    Supreme Court isn’t in the tank you know
    for Trump could you just sort of lay out
    the concern and have
    you seen protests or has that even come
    up
    uh in the first day
    here there has been a lot of concern in
    the leadup to this case Kira that the
    three justices president Trump appointed
    and the Court’s most senior conservative
    Clarence Thomas um may be conflicted in
    deciding this case Clarence Thomas’s
    wife Jenny Thomas as you know
    participated in events around January 6
    she was advocating uh those false slates
    of electors to help keep Donald Trump in
    power then you have Amy Coney Barrett
    Brett Kavanaugh Neil Gord it’s all
    appointed by Donald Trump generally
    favorable of conservative viewpoints but
    I have to tell you today Cara you didn’t
    see those stripes at play in the
    courtroom it was not apparent and
    certainly not overt that any of those
    four particular justices were in the
    tank for Donald Trump in fact uh Amy
    Cony Barrett seemed to suggest that this
    trial should move forward could move
    forward on certain grounds indicated
    that perhaps the special counsel could
    drop some of the charges that could be
    questionable as official acts and pursue
    private acts purely private acts so
    there was obviously an indication that
    presidents should not be entirely above
    the law but you did have somebody like
    Brett Kavanaugh today uh Kira talk a lot
    about the importance of a strong
    presidency he served in the
    administration of President George W
    bush and was concerned about that
    ability to protect Presidential Power
    and uh as we heard Neil Gorsuch put it
    at one point today Kira they are now
    engaged in drawing a rule for the ages
    this is something that every single one
    of those justices acknowledged today in
    that courtroom uh will have
    ramifications far beyond Donald Trump
    and far beyond this case they’re very
    aware that they’re writing a decision
    that will be impacting uh generations
    and future presidents down the
    line all right Devin Asha mark thank you
    all so much and if you want to hear the
    entire back and forth that actually took
    place today in our nation’s Supreme
    Court ABC News live will Air the full
    arguments at midnight tonight from our
    nation’s capital of downtown Manhattan
    Donald Trump sitting at the defense
    table for day three of witness testimony
    in his criminal hush money trial former
    National inquire publisher David pecker
    taking the stand for a third day now
    with more testimony regarding hush money
    payments that’s at the center of this
    one let’s bring in our executive
    producer John sanui also legal
    contributor and trial attorney Brian
    buckmire so John we’re starting to hear
    stormy Daniel’s name uh start to surface
    yeah Kira it took a couple of days but
    finally Stormy Daniels has made her
    appearance if you will into the
    courtroom what’s interesting here Kira
    is that we’ve been hearing the
    presentation from prosecutors building
    up to this moment they’ve been
    presenting evidence about other catch
    and kill schemes that David pecker the
    former publisher of the national
    Inquirer was a part of with Michael
    Cohen and Donald Trump all of which to
    build to this moment of Stormy Daniels
    the two other incidents involving a
    former doorman at Trump Tower and
    another woman Donald Trump had an affair
    with Karen McDougall now in both of
    those cases they were documented in a
    different way although of course leading
    up to the 2016 election but that’s the
    difference between those two and the
    Stormy Daniels payment it’s the way it’s
    documented Kira that of course LED
    prosecutors to bringing those 34
    criminal counts of fake business
    documents if you will that have brought
    Donald Trump to where he is today so
    they’re starting to go through that
    process and I think what’s fascinating
    about um what they’re explaining right
    now in court with David pecker answering
    questions is just the rev up in
    conversations that Michael Cohen and
    David pecker were having leading into
    the fall of 2016 pecker sort of alluded
    to this earlier in the week when he was
    in the stand Kira but the difference
    today is that now that we are entering a
    timeline of the summer into the fall of
    2016 as David pecker said the contact
    and Communications with Michael Cohen
    were increasing because of these stories
    that were coming forward and Donald
    Trump’s desire for pcker to catch them
    kill them bury the stories and make sure
    they never saw the light of day and then
    Brian uh Becker who’s it’s very
    interesting been on the stand for three
    times in a row now somebody who has
    never talked about any of this publicly
    he has hidden from the Limelight now
    he’s got to take the stand and talk
    about these these stories this catch and
    kill scheme these alleged payments that
    were made and now the payments to Karen
    McDougall buying her for for her silence
    let’s talk about how significant uh his
    testimony has been thus far whether it’s
    Stormy Daniels Karen McDougall um all of
    these allegations uh and even and truths
    that uh have come forward uh since six
    years ago when it all started to
    break I think you muted yourself Brian
    I’m telling you the Gremlins The
    Gremlins are with us today I apolog
    try it again my friend don’t worry I was
    only saying that was John was right so
    you didn’t really need to hear that part
    anyways I was getting some more
    important I’m just gonna add on to yeah
    I’m just gonna add on to what John was
    saying one thing that stuck out to me
    was that in all of this uh at one point
    pecker told us that he went to general
    counsel about the payment I think for
    Katherine McDougall and then ultimately
    led to an argument that he had with
    Michael Cohen that led to we’re just
    going to rip it up this agreement we’re
    not going to do this I think prosecution
    struck a very good cord there because
    what we’re getting to is this concept of
    consciousness of guilt that the pecker
    and the inquire looked at some of these
    payments and someone said we can’t do
    this anymore this is not good that could
    be an issue that I think the prosecution
    can point to and say even The Inquirer
    knew that the way in which they were
    doing this the documentation of
    information the paying off of of for
    these stories and how they went about it
    was wrong to the point that this
    agreement almost fell apart that to me
    really stuck out as something that the I
    think the jury is going to really think
    we all knew this was wrong they knew
    this was wrong why do they keep going on
    to stormmy
    Daniels all right John Brian thank you
    so much appreciate it also coming up
    that bombshell ruling that we’ve been
    telling you about why New York’s highest
    court overturned the rape conviction of
    movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein you’ll
    remember I started the me too movement
    is this a movement backwards we’re going
    to talk about it next
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    on ABC tonight the Supreme Court takes
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    daily first listen now that’s a part of
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    here first thing in the morning there’s
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    chasing a dog first thing in the morning
    American This Morning America’s number
    one early morning news on ABC News
    live glad you’re streaming with us we
    are following breaking news for you this
    hour uh we want to take you to New York
    now where the state’s highest court has
    overturned the rape conviction of movie
    producer Harvey Weinstein the New York
    Court of Appeals finding the trial judge
    prejudiced Weinstein with improper
    rulings including a decision to let
    women testify about allegations that
    were not part of the case Weinstein was
    a well-known powerful man as you know
    within the entertainment industry and
    prosecutors say that he abused his power
    to take advantage of an of a number of
    aspiring female actors like to co coers
    them into unwanted sexual encounters
    wiste was arrested in 2018 and charged
    with rape and criminal sexual assault he
    was found guilty in 2020 of both those
    felonies prosecutors say the testimony
    of those women other than those whose
    claims form the basis of the criminal
    charges spoke to Weinstein’s State of
    Mind to use forceable compulsion
    spokesperson for Weinstein saying they
    are happily surprised in studying the
    ruling that Weinstein is also convicted
    of sex crimes in Los Angeles and
    sentenced to 16 years in prison there
    because he’s already convicted in
    California he will not be released but
    instead transferred to the custody of
    prison authorities in California there’s
    a lot uh to discuss here let’s bring in
    our contributor and former NYPD chief of
    detectives Bob Boyce also so our legal
    contributor Brian buckmire Bob first to
    you I mean you were the lead
    investigator on this case against wiin
    scene there in New York what is your
    reaction uh to this
    decision uh it’s disgust mostly we put a
    lot of work into this thing and when you
    look at it this is a this was a strategy
    that’s got this overturn not the
    witnesses they found them in credible
    and did a great job in heroic stand on
    testifying against Mr Weinstein so it’s
    a difficult time for them to do it
    they’re GNA have to do it again and it’s
    not fair to them to go through all that
    through all that testimony in that
    public Clare but that’s what’s going to
    happen so uh everybody’s a lot very
    upset in New York right now about this
    Brian what do you think I mean what what
    played into this appeals court decision
    you think so looking at the decision and
    also being one of the attorneys who sat
    and watched this trial it was the fact
    that too many what we call Malo
    Witnesses or uncharged bad act Witnesses
    meaning that they were alleged victims
    in a case but none of their testimony
    was attributed to a charge they were
    able to testify uh to at length and the
    the sorry the court s that the judge in
    the trial made an erroneous decision
    allowing that and the issue is that he
    might have been convicted because of the
    propensity information not necessarily
    the allegations that came out and so to
    Bob’s Point yeah the investigation was
    great the Witnesses were strong but the
    strategy in which the prosecutors went
    about this and also the fact that uh
    Weinstein might not have been able to
    testify because of the evidence against
    him the court said that it has to be
    reversed so Bob The Manhattan DA’s
    office could decide to retry him what’s
    the likelihood that that could happen
    given today’s decision by the appeals
    court and do you think it’s a good
    idea I care I believe he has to this was
    a foundational case to the me me uh two
    movement and it started everything um s
    of domino things of people in power
    abusing women so I can’t see how he does
    do it I think he’s already committed to
    it already however that’s going to be
    take a while bear in mind that Mr
    Weinstein is wanted to do 16 years out
    in California so he’s not getting out of
    jail but these things can’t go we can’t
    let these things go past he has to be
    retried Brian if you were on the case
    and if we do see a retrial uh and and
    and that was you um having to make an
    argument in court this time around for
    Weinstein I mean what happens what does
    he say
    well I think the argument is is that the
    number of uncharged Witnesses or
    uncharged alleged victims that testified
    was too high so now from a defense
    standpoint it’s a re-evaluation of the
    case uh to Bob’s point the the the
    victims and we’ll call them victims even
    though the case was overturned and
    because they were found to be victims by
    the jury they were believed and so the
    question becomes is will their testimony
    lack um any kind of strength because
    they won’t have four other women that
    are also going to testify in a similar
    way or will you have potential defense
    here because there may be fewer alleged
    victims testify it looks a little bit
    better for the defense here but the only
    question is how much
    better all right Bob Brian appreciate it
    thanks so much coming up all those
    protests happening on campuses across
    the us we’re going to take you to where
    those demonstrations are popping up and
    calming down
    [Music]
    next what does it take to be the most
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    America an operation to capture Isis
    Fighters is this our combat Operation
    Center we’re approaching the gate now
    militants came in from four or five
    different directions operational nuclear
    reactor so you have a couple loaded and
    ready to
    go the house is destroyed but the flag
    there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
    it how important is this label right
    here made the USA look at your smile
    you’re proud of this I love this great
    work
    hi where are you where are you appr
    David good to meet you is David
    David yes yes I’m David M I know who you
    are you every
    night ABC’s World News Tonight with
    David mure is America’s most watched
    newscast Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think is the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John Von Joi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    Von Joi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC ABC News America number one news
    [Music]
    source developing this hour new protests
    amid the Israel Hamas war encampments of
    anti-war protesters popping up on
    campuses from coast to coast more than a
    dozen people arrested at the University
    of Maryland today where students joined
    the protest Movement by staging a now
    4-day sit in for Palestinians then in
    Atlanta protesters clashing with police
    on Emery University’s campus reports of
    getting tased Georgia State Troopers
    also making several arrests there let’s
    bring in our Phil Lipoff he’s been
    following all the developments for us
    from coast to coast let’s start with the
    University of Maryland just outside of
    Washington DC here what happened at this
    sit in so K over the past four days of
    protesting at the University of Maryland
    it has been relatively peaceful we say
    relatively compared to other protests
    we’ve seen we’ve seen about a dozen
    arrests as you mentioned today uh but
    for the most part it’s been a sit in to
    show solidarity with the hundred so
    protesters we already saw arrested at
    Colombia here in New York City and to
    make demands that UMD divest from Israel
    in every way some of the students there
    with very close and personal ties to
    Gaza all of our family is in ra so
    they’re under bombardment they’re having
    the issues with food they don’t have
    food they don’t have water uh their
    houses are being bomb and our relatives
    have been being killed just want
    Maryland University of Maryland to just
    recognize that like hey I do exist I
    need their support um I need them like I
    would love for them to divest I don’t
    want my money or tuition money to go
    towards like war and killing
    people in here on the other side of that
    you have Jewish students at all of these
    campuses who report to ABC news that
    they feel uh you know threatened and
    uncomfortable and unwelcomed on campus
    when some of the protesters are using
    words like you know
    genocide all right let’s let’s go to
    Emery University now in Atlanta and you
    know we we’ve heard um the strong
    language we heard it yesterday as these
    protests were taking place at calp USC
    uh Columbia University and and hearing
    uh even the house Speaker Mike Johnson
    talking about uh hearing the students
    yelling and profanities and talking
    about genocide and and he was extremely
    concerned about the Jewish students
    they’re feeling threatened and
    intimidated um and now we have protest
    popping up in Atlanta on Emery
    University’s campus and and they turned
    violent apparently so what
    happened well I mean you mentioned other
    campuses we’ve seen 100 people arrested
    overnight at Emerson USC 93 Yale 45 the
    University at Emory says a few dozen
    people actually came on to campus Kira
    they say were not members of the school
    Community Outsiders who they say then
    set up tents on the quad and then began
    to clash with police as you see as
    police said in and take those tents away
    because like on many campuses most
    campuses you can’t just set up tents on
    an encampment or occupy a building for
    that matter at Northwestern University
    in Illinois dozens of students have set
    up a tent encampment there and are
    calling it a free Gaza liberated Zone
    the problem is none of these encampments
    are seen as liberated space of course by
    the schools that they are happening at a
    Northwestern says the tents are a
    violation of school policy and when
    police moved in to take them down
    protesters linked arms as you see here
    to try to prevent police uh from doing
    their job and today at Princeton in New
    Jersey the university says two students
    have been arrested for trespassing
    students there are looking for Princeton
    as well to divest from doing any kind of
    business with Israel even academically
    they’d like a lot of these schools to
    divest from semester abroad programs
    with schools in Israel uh also to show
    support for members uh of other protest
    areas that were arrested already by uh
    police k
    all right stay on top of it Phil thanks
    so much and thanks to all of you for
    streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
    news never stops as you can see and
    neither do we we’ll be right back more
    news on the other
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    side what does it take to be the most
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    America an operation to capture Isis
    Fighters This our combat operation sir
    we’re approaching the gate now militants
    came in from four or five different
    directions operational nuclear reactor
    so you have a couple loaded and ready to
    go the house is destroyed but the flag
    there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
    it how important is this label right
    here made in the USA look at your smile
    you’re proud of this I love it great
    work
    hi where are you where are you
    appreciate you thank you David good to
    meet you is David
    D yes yes I’m David M I know you are you
    every
    night ABC’s World News Tonight with
    David mure is America’s most watched
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    live and good afternoon everyone I’m
    Kira Phillips today on ABC News live
    Donald Trump a former president and
    current presidential candidate facing
    multiple legal battles all centered
    around charges of corrupting elections
    court on lunch break right now but Trump
    is back at the defense table for day
    three of witness testimony in his
    criminal hush money trial former
    National inquire publisher David pecker
    taking the stand once again facing
    questions about alleged efforts to catch
    and kill unflattering stories before the
    2016 election he set to resume testimony
    as soon as lunch concludes all of this
    happening as we are also covering a
    historic and unprecedented day for the
    United States Supreme Court the highest
    court in the land hearing arguments over
    presidential immunity and whether former
    president Trump can be prosecuted for
    his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020
    election while he was still in office we
    have Team coverage leading us off our
    investigative reporter Olivia Rubin is
    with us along with our legal contributor
    and trial attorney Brian buckmire Olivia
    let’s start with you in New York David
    pecker testifying once again he was
    twice summoned to twum Tower in the
    post-election period for meetings with
    Michael Cohen Trump’s former fixer what
    did he claim about those meetings right
    now Kira those meetings that pecker
    spoke about were after the payments had
    already been made uh for the three catch
    and kill schemes to the doorman to Karen
    McDougall and to Stormy Daniels and the
    first meeting he spoke about was a
    meeting with Michael Cohen where he
    essentially Michael Cohen confirmed that
    he had made the payment to Stormy
    Daniels to keep her claims quiet but he
    also Kira expressed concern to David
    pcker that he personally had not been
    paid back for the payment to Stormy
    Daniels and also that he had not yet
    been given a bonus and that was sort of
    a theme that we saw in this morning
    session in the court concern about from
    people David pecker Michael Cohen who
    were paying for these stories and were
    not getting their reimbursements so in
    that uh meeting Michael Cohen actually
    asked David pcker if he would go to
    Donald Trump and vouch for him and talk
    about all of the work that he had done
    burying these stories which David pecker
    testified to the jury that he did do and
    he said that Donald Trump replied I
    don’t know what you’re talking about
    Michael Cohen has Trump Tower Apartments
    Michael Cohen has taxi medallions he
    said don’t worry about it we’ll take
    care of him and then just briefly that
    second meeting uh David pcker said he
    went to Trump Tower once Donald Trump
    was already Vice president-elect and he
    threw out some uh names that are a bit
    of a blast from the past there from 16
    he talked about how Ryan prus was there
    how sean Spicer was there how Mike
    Pompeo was there and Donald Trump was
    being uh briefed on some sort of
    shooting that had occurred and he said
    he took that time to ask David pecker uh
    you know how’s our girl Karen doing
    apparently a reference to Karen
    McDougall who uh he had paid to silence
    and said you know thank you essentially
    for all that you have done so really
    fascinating uh meetings putting him in
    the middle of that so Brian it seems
    like we need to hear from Michael Cohen
    now
    absolutely I mean for the prosecution
    what their job now is to just lump on
    more coroporation that these meetings
    existed people were in those meetings
    and these conversations occurred and
    everyone understood what was going on
    but the interesting point I think though
    is what’s it defense going to do because
    either they’re going to just try to
    destroy the credibility of the
    individuals in those meetings to say you
    can’t believe them for X Y and Z reason
    or put forward their own information to
    suggest that a different narrative or a
    different understanding those words
    occurred the question that I’m having in
    my mind is who would that witness be
    other than Donald Trump so my question
    I’m more curious as to how are you gonna
    fight back these very strong
    allegations Olivia Rubin Brian buckmire
    and so it goes heading into the next
    days uh we will talk some more now let’s
    go from New York to our nation’s capital
    where as you know it’s Donald J Trump
    versus the United States right now
    against the backdrop of an already
    divisive 2024 presidential campaign the
    US Supreme Court just heard those
    arguments about the former president’s
    claim of absolute immunity the outcome
    could determine as you know whether
    Trump faces a federal trial this year on
    four felony counts pressed by special
    counsel Jack Smith but the justices did
    appear skeptical today of the former
    president’s absolute immunity claim take
    a
    listen it’s someone with those kinds of
    powers the most powerful person in the
    world with the greatest amount of
    authority
    um could go into office knowing that
    there would be no potential penalty for
    committing crimes I’m trying to
    understand what the disincentive is from
    turning the Oval Office into um you know
    the the the the seat of criminal
    activity in this country if the
    potential for criminal liability is
    taken off the table wouldn’t there be a
    significant risk that future presidents
    would be emboldened to commit crimes
    with abandon while they’re in
    office we’ve got live team coverage
    starting off with our senior Washington
    correspondent Deon DWI just outside the
    Supreme Court there are also our senior
    reporter kathern falers and our
    political political director Rick kleene
    plus our legal contributor and law
    professor at the University of Baltimore
    Kim wayy also our presidential historian
    and contributor M Mark upd Grove I think
    we have every base covered with this
    panel Devin let’s start with you um and
    the justices um how did they seem to
    lean today just based off their
    questions to Trump lawyers and then of
    course listening to the skepticism right
    there in the
    recordings well it seemed very clear
    Kira that the Supreme Court at least a
    majority of the justices are not buying
    Donald Trump’s argument of absolute
    immunity for any act he took while in
    office so that is a blow to Trump in one
    sense at the same time today the Supreme
    Court didn’t seem to be buying the
    appeals court decision giving
    categorical categorical green light to
    criminal prosecution of Donald Trump so
    where does that leave us well somewhere
    in the middle the Supreme Court a
    majority of the conservatives seem to
    suggest that private acts of a president
    those he took while in office to
    ingratiate himself and a personal level
    could be prosecuted but not official
    acts things like you know issuing a
    pardon or a veto of of a bill for
    example or appointing an ambassador
    those sorts of things should be
    protected so they were trying today to
    come to some Middle Ground about how to
    decide what’s an official act that’s
    protected a private act that’s not and
    as Neil Gorsuch put it today Kira that’s
    going to be a rule for the ages and that
    will take some time for them to sort out
    so on the whole it seemed to be a win
    for Donald Trump this is something
    that’s going to have to now get sorted
    out in a lower court and that will
    likely mean as you put at the top that
    that trial that everybody’s concerned
    about won’t go forward very quickly uh
    possibly not even this summer Kira I
    think this is all a moment in time for
    the ages as well Katherine this is just
    one of many Trump legal cases that are
    happening right now let’s talk about how
    he is respond responding to this
    particular case while he has been in a
    courtroom in Manhattan during his hush
    money trial well Kira as you know while
    these arguments at the Supreme Court
    were ongoing Trump was sitting in that
    New York courtroom so he was not able to
    monitor any of these arguments in real
    time certainly during that lunch break
    up there he was briefed on what happened
    what transpired in court so he did make
    some comments at the beginning of the
    day before The Supreme Court argument
    started where he said what we’ve heard
    him say multiple times that every
    President should have immunity in his
    view um that that would obviously
    protect his decision making while
    President but at the same time I think
    it’s worth pointing out the
    contradiction that Trump has made while
    he claims that he should be immune from
    acts while President he also says that
    if he’s reelected that he wants to
    prosecute President Joe Biden for
    example that would cut directly against
    the claims that his lawyers are making
    and that he’s making publicly so he
    hasn’t reacted yet specifically to these
    arguments I’m sure he will come to the
    cameras at some point
    soon yes he usually does and Rick you
    know all these legal hurdles are you
    think they’re hurting or just fueling uh
    the Trump campaign right now the
    difference you have to dissect on this
    is the difference between his core base
    which anything that doesn’t kill him
    makes him stronger he has only drawn
    strength from all these legal
    proceedings versus a general election
    audience we’ve seen consistently in
    polling Kira that that voters may not
    think that this case right now before
    the the court in New York is all that
    serious but they do think that the
    January 6 related charges are quite
    serious and they’ve said to pollsters
    consistently that they’re less likely
    people are less likely to support him
    for president if he’s convicted of a
    serious crime so the the the timeline
    here matters a lot the New York case
    aside because that’s full steam ahead
    what the court does next do they carve
    out some room for potential delays that
    push this into the fall or even beyond
    the presidential election that could
    matter quite a bit but it is a
    remarkable day and a remarkable week for
    the former president all these legal
    legal issues crashing in opposite and
    sometimes of very different directions
    but all of them posing a giant
    distraction for a candidate who’d rather
    be talking about Joe Biden right
    now and he still manages to do that
    every now and then saying that this is
    all Biden’s fault which is not true um
    but Kim you know this talk about the
    Supreme Court is it in the tank for
    Trump you’ve got uh justice Thomas’s
    wife who helped lead the stop the steel
    campaign and there have been critics out
    there saying that Justice Thomas should
    have recused himself from this
    case well I would agree with that uh
    that he has an interest a material
    interest in the outcome potentially um
    this is It’s troubling for a lot of
    reasons keep in mind we would not even
    be having this discussion if it weren’t
    for Donald Trump in January 6 there’s
    never been a time in American history
    where there’s had to even put on the
    table criminal immunity for presidents
    um the court this conservative Court who
    reversed o Row versus Wade on the theory
    that abortions not expressed in the
    constitution is now poised to
    manufacture out of thin air criminal
    immunity for presidents it’s not in the
    Constitution and today um Justice Thomas
    didn’t do a lot of questioning but his
    conservative colleagues really seemed
    more concerned about Rogue prosecutors
    crossing boundaries of Ethics than
    presidents crossing boundaries of ethics
    and frankly Kira to watch it it was
    almost like we’re not living in the same
    time frame um because you know at one
    point Alo even acknowledged that uh
    interfering with the peaceful transfer
    of power is a problem but he seemed to
    think that’s why we need to have
    immunity for presidents because
    otherwise they’ll pardon themselves and
    immunize themselves that way it got it
    got a little bit twisted uh Kira and you
    have to ask yourself what the what
    really what’s incentivizing some of
    these justices this
    moment a little twisted unprecedented
    historic I think of all these adjectives
    we’ve been using Mark I mean clearly
    what is happening right now um is is
    going to shape the presidency in some
    way shape or form a lot of people saying
    that you know that’s at stake here
    without question that is what’s at stake
    here the expansion of powers uh in the
    executive branch of the government by
    the that the the the
    uh the the the leader of the Free World
    and and it’s amazing that the Catalyst
    for this is January 6th uh so one
    wonders will Donald Trump ever be held
    accountable for uh fomenting an
    Insurrection uh on on his own country in
    order to retain power and to overturn a
    free and fair election uh it’s one of
    the many paradoxes of the of the Trump
    era in American history Kira so there
    will be a lot of attention
    on this Supreme Court case and what it
    means for the future of the presidency
    and for the future of our nation Devin
    Katherine Rick Kim and mark thank you
    all so much I don’t think there’s any
    doubt right that the shape of the
    presidency is at stake here especially
    after that conversation this is a
    divisive 2024 presidential campaign and
    the Man in the center of the Supreme
    Court case is not only leading in the
    polls but he also has 18 Republican
    Attorneys General now who file an amicus
    brief urging the highest court in the
    land to reverse the lower court and
    Grant Trump blanket immunity this effort
    is being led by Alabama’s attorney
    general Steve Marshall Attorney General
    Marshall joins me now Steve good to see
    you you know I want to look back at
    something you said about this case uh
    you said if this prosecution is designed
    to silence or imprison the sitting
    president’s political opponent right
    before the election it is an abuse use
    of the justice system that the Supreme
    Court should take seriously you know the
    question that’s before the court Steve
    is not about imprisonment it’s about
    whether a president should have blanket
    immunity we’re talking about checks and
    balances we have already witnessed Trump
    pushing the boundaries of checks and
    balances like challenging certified
    election results and ring his base that
    led to an Insurrection so I want to ask
    you are you concerned at all with abuse
    of
    power clearly a concern about abuse of
    power but let’s look at where power has
    been abused already it took 30 months
    for the special prosecutor to bring
    these charges that relate to facts that
    have been reported for quite some time
    and when we look about the question of
    delay whether or not we’re going to have
    a trial in a timely manner they don’t
    need to look at president Trump’s trial
    team the question is why the special
    Counsel had to wait so long to bring
    these charges to begin
    with so Steve the the Justice
    Department’s attorneys are AR that
    Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020
    election results were not official
    conduct but rather campaign conduct that
    Trump’s efforts were not motivated for
    the country but for self-interest in
    re-election do you
    agree now I don’t agree in fact if you
    look at the arguments being made before
    the court Trump’s legal team
    specifically said that this immunity
    claim is not tied to private acts but
    only to the official actions of the
    president which is entirely consistent
    with how we’ve treated the president
    under civil law to be able to Grant
    absolute immunity relating to their
    official actions and it’s broader than
    simply president Trump this has to do
    with the ability of presidents to be
    able to lead the executive branch
    without looking over their shoulder we
    think that this is an important argument
    in fact the special counsil must have
    believed the same thing because he
    attempted to have the Supreme Court to
    be able to consider it before the DC
    court of appeals could weigh in to begin
    with but the core tenant of our justice
    system is equal justice for all why
    should the president be immune to
    that well we’ve recognized the issue of
    immunity for officials of a public
    nature for quite some time this is
    obviously the first time in which we’ve
    had to examine whether or not
    presidential immunity would apply to a
    criminal prosecution president Trump
    didn’t bring this upon himself but in
    fact it was brought not only by
    prosecutors who waited many many months
    to be able to come forward but let’s
    look at also what’s going on in the
    state of of Georgia where we have
    prosecutors running a campaign on
    whether or not they’re going to look
    into Donald Trump I’ve been a prosecutor
    now for almost 30 years my
    responsibility is to follow facts and
    not chase people what we’ve seen with
    the efforts around Donald Trump is an
    effort with a results driven
    investigation to try to convict a man
    not to allow the fact to dictate where
    those prosecutions should go so Steve
    you mentioned Georgia ABC News is now
    reporting that based on analysis Trump
    appears to be an unindicted
    co-conspirator in Arizona’s case against
    so-called fake elector he’s also the
    unindicted co-conspirator in Michigan’s
    case and we have the Georgia
    racketeering case related to election
    fraud wouldn’t a grant of immunity for a
    president accused of such crimes
    endanger a peaceful transfer of
    power what is more uh at least
    encouraging for me is the fact that the
    president’s going have the ability to
    use immunity to try to address what are
    democratically driven prosecutions of
    the man who’s now in line to be in the
    presidency again the criminal justice
    system ought to be acted impartially to
    give individuals a fair opportunity to
    litigate their claims it doesn’t need to
    be an aggressive effort to use the
    criminal justice system to be able to
    support other political candidates in an
    election nor to attack those they don’t
    want to serve in office one more
    question if immunity is granted this
    could extend to any future president
    including a Democratic president would
    you support that
    absolutely Alabama attorney general
    Steve Marshall appreciate your time and
    if you want to hear the entire back and
    forth that took place today in our
    nation Supreme Court ABC News live will
    Air the full arguments at midnight
    tonight straight ahead it was a
    bombshell ruling why New York’s highest
    court overturned the rape conviction of
    movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein
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    glad you’re streaming with us we do have
    breaking news out of New York where the
    state’s highest court has now overturned
    the rape conviction of movie producer
    Harvey Weinstein the court finding the
    trial judge prejudiced Weinstein and let
    women testify about allegations that
    were not part of the case well Weinstein
    was a well-known powerful man in the
    entertainment industry but prosecutors
    said that he abused that power that he
    took advantage of aspiring female actors
    Weinstein was arrested in 2018 and he
    was charged with rape and sexual assault
    then in 2020 he was found guilty of both
    those felonies lawyers representing
    Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
    take a
    listen there are some people who are
    very unpopular in our
    society but we still have to apply the
    law fairly to them and in this
    Courthouse behind us at that trial the
    law was not applied fairly to Harvey
    Weinstein let’s bring in our contributor
    and former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
    Boyce and also our legal contributor
    here at ABC Brian buckmeyer Bob you were
    the lead investigator on that case
    against Weinstein you know the ins and
    outs of that case better than anyone
    what was your reaction to
    this surprise I didn’t see didn’t think
    this was going to happen so when it did
    it did surprise me and I will say from
    the outset this was not about the
    witnesses or the victims who who um
    testified against Mr Weinstein this was
    about a strategy the prosecutor used
    bringing uh people to speak about him
    and with not charging for those crimes
    that’s what this is about it’s not in
    any way detriment to their credibility
    this is what happened in this case we’re
    surprised by it we certainly hope that
    Mr uh Mr brg retries the
    case so Brian let’s talk about the
    evidence
    uh that played into the appeals Court’s
    decision here and then also what Bob
    just said about retrying the
    case yeah so for the appell court
    they’re looking at this from an issue of
    quantity not quality and to Bob’s point
    it’s not the quality of the evidence but
    the the quantity of it especially when
    it comes to uncharged Witnesses what the
    attorney Arthur adala was talking about
    about being unfair you can see him there
    in that green hat as uh Bary Weinstein
    kind of walks into court is that we have
    this rule that you cannot have evidence
    that it’s more prejudicial than it is
    probative and the argument here is that
    those uncharged Witnesses prejudiced
    Harvey Weinstein without giving
    probative information or not enough
    probative information and that It
    ultimately uh perhaps tilted the jury
    verdict towards a guilty based on that
    prejudice rather than the evidence of
    the
    case so Bob you interviewed so many of
    these victims I want to say survivors um
    what do you say to them today and light
    of of this
    news it’s difficult to speak of this
    because they they really gave up a lot
    by testifying they gave up you know
    they’re under this public glare for soat
    long time their names in the paper they
    really stepped forward and created a new
    environment of me too that people were
    going to step forward and not going to
    be afraid of people in power so I would
    ask them quite BL just stay with it do
    the retrial let’s put this guy away and
    and and make sure that this was not all
    done in vain because of it because of
    the strategy that this really did happen
    we we interviewed so many people Cara
    Cara who said the same thing about it in
    the exact same Amo ammo that he used so
    there’s a lot of evidence there that was
    not brought into the trial this may
    happen in the second trial Brian
    Weinstein has also been convicted of sex
    crimes in California for which he’s
    serving prison time will today’s ring
    impact that in any
    way it will in the sense that I expect
    the defense attorneys to revisit that
    California case and see if there are any
    similarities while this case was decided
    based on New York law California and
    many other states have similar arguments
    that you should only put for information
    that’s more probative than prejudicial
    not the other way around so they’ll
    evaluate the witnesses and to Bob’s
    Point yes I do think they’ll retry this
    case for the defense they’ll push
    forward on it defending him well be
    following it Bob Brian thanks guys so
    much appreciate you coming up protests
    across the US on college campuses we’re
    going to take you to some of the newest
    demonstrations that are popping up and
    what universities doing about
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    on ABC tonight the Supreme Court takes
    on the power of the presidency oral
    arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
    for immunity plus tornado severe weather
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    ABC News
    live developing right now new
    encampments of anti-war protesters
    popping up on other campuses now from
    coast to coast more than a dozen people
    arrested at the University of Maryland
    where students staged a Sittin for
    Palestinians today then in Atlanta
    protesters clashing with police on Emory
    University’s campus even reports of
    getting tazed Georgia State Troopers
    also making several arrests there let’s
    bring in our Phil lip off he’s been
    following all the developments so let’s
    start with the protest at the University
    of Maryland uh not far from here uh in
    ABC News in the center of uh DC what
    happened Phil
    we say relatively because there have
    been some real dust UPS all across this
    country but it doesn’t arrest today as
    you mentioned but for the most part it
    has been a sit in to show solidarity
    with the 100 or so protesters arrested
    at Colombia here in New York City last
    week and to make demands that UMD divest
    from Israel in every way some of the
    students there with some very close and
    personal ties to Gaza
    all of our family is in Raa so they’re
    under bombardment they’re having the
    issues with food they don’t have food
    they don’t have water uh their houses
    are being bombed and our relatives have
    been being killed just want Maryland
    University of Maryland to just recognize
    that like hey I do exist I need their
    support um I need them like I would love
    for them to divest I don’t want my money
    or tuition money to go towards like war
    and killing
    people certainly is a valid concern
    there are many Jewish students on
    campuses all across this country that
    find a lot of this rhetoric anti-semitic
    Kira so let’s go to Emory University now
    in Atlanta where things actually turned
    violent what do you know yeah that was
    one of the many places it turned violent
    Emory the university says a few dozen
    people here came onto campus who
    actually not members of the school
    Community they set up tents in the quad
    and began to clash with police take you
    to Northwestern University in Illinois
    dozens of students have set up tent and
    camp cment there and are calling it a
    free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
    none of these encampments are actually
    seen as liberated Space by any of the
    school administrations that they are
    happening at Northwestern says the tents
    are a violation of school policy and
    when police moved in to take them down
    protesters linked their arms uh and
    tried to keep folks away from them these
    are live pictures where guys from this
    is from Northwestern so you can see
    they’re surrounding the tents there
    again the school says this is not their
    policy uh to allow this to happen
    they’re negotiating with the folks who
    were there at UC Berkeley want to
    mention this kir campus with a very
    proud Legacy as you know of embracing
    social protest an encampment grew
    overnight students say they will not
    leave until the school Cuts all ties
    with Israeli schools and companies with
    ties to Arms suppliers and they want the
    University of California to forly
    recognize Israel’s actions as genocide
    and again many Jewish students on that
    campus say they feel intimidated not
    welcomed with with all these uh tents
    and encampments and they find a lot of
    the rhetoric from the protesters
    anti-semitic Phil appreciate your
    reporting and thanks so much for
    streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
    news never stops neither do we we’ve got
    a lot more on the other
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    Israel a nation at War enrolling for
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    everywhere I’m Kira Phillips right now
    on ABC News live Donald Trump a former
    president and current presidential
    candidate facing the multiple legal
    battles all centered around charges of
    corrupting elections Trump back at the
    defense table for his criminal hush
    money trial that’s resuming after a
    short lunch break former National inquir
    publisher David pecker once again back
    on the stand facing even more questions
    about those efforts to catch and kill
    all those unflattering stories about
    Trump before the 2016 election let’s
    bring in our executive producer John
    santui also our legal contributor and
    trial attorney Brian Meer so John let’s
    just talk about the latest out of court
    and and what more we’ve been hearing uh
    from pecker this afternoon yeah Cara
    it’s been interesting happening right
    now downtown in lower Manhattan where
    David pecker is talking more and more
    about his relationship between Donald
    Trump and Michael Cohen and himself and
    the catchin kill scheme they devised to
    find negative stories about Donald Trump
    leading up to the 2016 presidential
    election basically paying people off to
    buy their silence now obviously we know
    this case case that Donald Trump was
    indicted for by Manhattan prosecutors
    involves the case of Stormy Daniels the
    former porn star but there are two other
    incidents Kira that David pecker has
    been walking prosecutors through
    involving a former door man that worked
    for the former president and a former
    Playboy Playmate that he had a longtime
    affair with Karen McDougall what pcker
    is describing today so far Kira is
    really starting to dig into the stormy
    Daniel’s relationship this was the one
    of course that caused much heartache to
    Donald Trump because Stormy Daniels was
    shopping her story and David pecker has
    been talking to prosecutors outlining
    how through his sources when he was the
    publisher of the national Inquirer that
    they heard about Stormy Daniels they
    heard she was trying to sell her story
    for
    $120,000 pecker stepped in to buy the
    story to catch it to kill it for
    $130,000 thus buying her silence leading
    up to the 2016 election so Brian your
    top takeaway from from pecker testimony
    so
    far it’s really the buildup that John is
    talking about how there’s a distinction
    between the doorman the distinction
    between Karen and then now uh Stormy
    Daniels that in the first two there
    seemed to be some friction because it
    seemed like the inquire had to fit the
    bill uh and I many people I’m John
    probably better at talking about this
    I’ve heard rumors that Donald Trump is
    not good at paying his bills back and so
    there’s that friction of like when am I
    going to get paid when am I going to get
    paid but with storyy Daniels there’s
    this uniqueness that we’re expecting to
    hear that uh the reimbursement through
    paying of stormmy Daniels and the
    reimbursement of paying back Michael
    Cohen and then how that all happen and
    intertwined is where the crime exists
    that there seem to be another function
    as to why and how this story need to be
    paid for that ultimately brings us to
    this
    case and so John one of Trump’s top
    advisers who’s believed to have been
    named in the Arizona indictment last
    night actually accompanied Trump to
    court today what did you make of B step
    seene being with the former president
    it’s remarkable it’s very reminiscent of
    Walt Nao who of course was indicted
    alongside Donald Trump in the federal
    case where Donald Trump took documents
    to Mara Lago right by his side Arizona
    case of course Just Happening last night
    here as you mentioned where you know
    over a dozen individuals including fake
    electors and some top advisers to Donald
    Trump were indicted now are
    understanding of the indictment because
    Boris Epstein is not named what we
    believe is his name was redacted because
    he was not formally served but based on
    our understanding of the indictment it
    does appeared Boris Epstein Rudy
    Giuliani and Mark Meadows are among
    those close to Donald Trump that were
    indicted but Epstein being right there
    Kira almost 12 hours later it just shows
    yet again Allah Walt NADA these are a
    close circle of AIDs that remain
    extremely loyal and close to Donald
    Trump but nevertheless Kira he along
    with the others now facing another round
    of charges yep and Brian the defense
    will get a chance to pick apart uh
    Pecker’s claims that Michael Cohen
    sought to disguise the true nature of
    the Karen McDougall deal and that Trump
    was aware so what do Trump’s lawyers
    need to focus on in order to convince
    the jury that that was not the case
    there’s always there’s already been so
    much coverage about this alleged Affair
    that he had with the Playboy
    Playmate yeah so I think it’s twofold
    one of of course we’ve always been
    talking about credibility try to destroy
    the credibility of this witness why
    should the jury believe this person uh
    point out the fact that this was a
    beneficial relationship this individual
    had the ability to uh kind of bump
    elbows or rub El elbows with the
    president and maybe he was doing this of
    his own accord or at least this might
    have been an agreement just between uh
    pecker and Cohen and keep Donald Trump
    out of it the other thing I think would
    be is how sure are you and that being
    the kind of the question to ask pecker
    how sure are you that this is what
    Donald Trump meant are you kind of
    filling in the blanks yourself is this
    the investigation making you leaning
    towards this bias that he wanted uh for
    this to be paid back in this way that
    led to criminality I think if you can
    create an environment where it’s just
    these two men and keep Donald Trump out
    of it who is creating the scheme and
    it’s Michael Cohen who’s pushing it that
    may bring the defense into a better
    place but only time will tell him and
    what we’ve seen of Donald Trump when he
    steps outside and says it was a legal
    expense that’s what you’re supposed to
    do that kind of butts head with that
    argument but it’s the best I think you
    could do it with this
    witness how about Trump continuing to to
    violate the gag order adding four new
    contempt counts today John when are we
    going to learn about the judge’s ruling
    on that issue and where could that go
    well I mean either we’re going to learn
    about the ruling or he’s going to
    violate it a couple more times this is
    remarkable Kira so prosecutors as you
    know asked for you know 10 violations to
    be cited while they were making that
    presentation earlier this week in court
    they added an 11th for comments he made
    outside of court now they’re adding four
    more and one of them they’re adding Kira
    is actually comments Donald Trump made
    to our state
    wpv leading up to the Pennsylvania
    Republican primary earlier this week
    where he attacked Michael Cohen which is
    of course another violation of the gag
    order that says no attacks on Witnesses
    now we’re waiting on the judge to rule
    here but there’s a couple different
    things that could happen option one
    nothing it’s a warning to Donald Trump
    knock it off you got to stick within the
    confines but clearly he keeps violating
    it so I don’t think that’s going to
    happen option two you hit them with the
    fine prosecutors have said they want
    $1,000 per violation I’m not great at
    math but I think we’re up to 11 12 we’re
    up to 15 so that’ be $155,000 right
    there if they stick with that the third
    which is fascinating could actually be a
    bit of jail time and if we think that
    sounds nearly impossible it’s not the
    Secret Service earlier this week our
    team confirming had conversations with
    the NYPD and Court officials Kira to
    prepare for just that John Brian thanks
    guys well from New York City to our
    nation’s capital it’s Donald J Trump
    versus the United States in this next
    story it’s against the backdrop of an
    already divisive 2024 presidential
    campaign as you know the US Supreme
    Court just heard those arguments about
    the former president’s claim of absolute
    immunity that outcome could determine
    whether Trump faces a federal trial this
    year on four felony counts pressed by
    special counsel Jack Smith the justic is
    appearing pretty skeptical though of the
    former president’s absolute immunity
    claim today take a
    listen if the potential for criminal
    liability is taken off the table
    wouldn’t there be a significant risk
    that future presidents would be
    emboldened to commit crimes with abandon
    while they’re in
    office we have live team coverage
    starting off with our senior Washington
    correspondent Deon DWI just outside the
    Supreme Court legal contributor and law
    professor at the University of Baltimore
    Kim wayy contributor and presidential
    historian mark up Grove all right Devin
    your takeaways from court today well the
    court was indeed skeptical of his claim
    of absolute immunity Cura but this was a
    very good day for Donald Trump and one
    key indicator of that was at the end of
    nearly three hours of oral arguments and
    I was in that chamber uh Trump’s
    Attorney John sour was given the chance
    to give a rebuttal and he said nothing
    further your honor that’s extraordinary
    in its own right I’ve seen a lot of oral
    arguments never seen uh the plaintiff’s
    council not take advantage of that time
    and that’s for two reasons one uh Donald
    Trump seems likely here to at least gain
    some time and that’s because the
    justices seem to indicate at least a
    majority of them that some more hashing
    out needs to be done about what sorts of
    immunity what sorts of actions by by a
    President are covered by immunity that
    will take time in the lower court and at
    the end of the day also Kira that means
    a narrowing probably of charges both
    sides today in this argument agreed that
    while yes there are some private actions
    that are contemplated in the indictment
    against Donald Trump that could be
    pursued uh first they would need to
    figure out which official actions
    therein could be removed from the
    indictment also taking a good bit of
    time so at the end of the day Donald
    Trump effectively wins here on the on
    the substantive practical matter and
    that’s a trial before election day seems
    a lot less likely that this major
    election interference case will go
    forward and certainly be resolved before
    November
    kir so Kim Justice Amy con Barrett also
    asked a series of probing questions
    about of Trump’s attorney rather
    indicating that she too is skeptical of
    the position taken here by Trump’s teams
    distinguishing between official and
    private acts could you sort of lay out
    the significance of that in the
    difference and and where this was
    going well so there is such a thing as
    civil immunity for presidents the idea
    that if a president does a presidential
    thing regular citizens can’t file a
    lawsuit and get money from from the
    president later for negligence for
    example and and she was taking or the
    council took that distinction from the
    Civil context official versus unofficial
    conduct private versus public conduct
    it’s why the case went against Bill
    Clinton for sexual harassment while he
    was still president because that was
    Private conduct the concern here is how
    do you make that distinction is it going
    to be an objective test that you just
    sort of look at what the ACT is or are
    you going to probe to see what they
    really meant to do I think think the the
    the harm here is if the court goes with
    this distinction uh we have to not just
    think about whether the trial will go
    forward with Donald Trump but if someone
    like Donald Trump gets in the white
    house again uh the concern is you just
    sort of put some fluff around your
    actions to make them look official on
    paper we’re not going to probe whether
    they’re actually meant to be committing
    crimes and then all of a sudden you get
    complete immunity green lighting crimes
    in the Oval Office and I think that’s
    what Justice Jackson was really worried
    about but I age with Devon I think the
    majority is going to go with some kind
    of a test between private and public and
    whether that’s really probing and it’s
    going to protect the the the public
    frankly from wrongdoing from crimes from
    a criminal Enterprise with the massive
    powers of of the Oval Office that is
    sitting in these five justices hands
    essentially the majority in this moment
    it’s really
    daunting Mark uh are there any
    historical parallels here you know
    you’re used to to me saying this Kira
    the the answer is really no once again
    this is more or less unprecedented the
    last we saw uh a president’s legal fate
    in the balance was with Richard Nixon uh
    after he resigned uh in the face of
    charges that he had obstructed Justice
    in the the Watergate scandal and then he
    was pardoned uh a month after leaving
    the presidency by Gerald Ford so uh that
    we really haven’t seen anything like
    this and it’s worth noting that Gerald
    Ford pardoned Richard Nixon in order to
    get the legal fate of Nixon out of the
    public Consciousness so that the the the
    nation could move to other pressing
    issues like stagflation we had a major
    problem with their economy and the
    lingering war in Vietnam so uh this is
    again another example of something that
    hasn’t happened before and as was
    mentioned earlier it plays to Donald
    Trump’s favor because it delays this
    trial we might not have a verdict in
    this trial until after the election if
    there is uh a case that goes forward at
    all given what’s at stake here so Mark
    Justice kavanov focused on that today so
    how this moment compares to Watergate he
    said that President Ford’s pardon of
    Richard Nixon was very controversial in
    the moment but now it’s looked upon as
    one of the better decisions in
    presidential history do you agree I I I
    do I think there’s there’s there are
    varying opinions on that but I think
    Gerald Ford was looking at the moment
    not the precedent that he was set in kir
    he was looking at the country at that
    time and he believed that as long as the
    country was focused on solely on the on
    the legal fate of Richard Nixon we
    couldn’t get on as a nation he wanted
    the nation to heal he told me many times
    when I interviewed him through the years
    that he thought it was the right thing
    to do to heal the nation and it was
    certainly a politically courageous thing
    to do because it probably cost him the
    presidency in his own right when he ran
    in 197 6 and lost to Jimmy Carter I
    think most historians would generally
    agree that it was the right thing to do
    but the concern is did it set a
    precedent for something like we face
    today and I don’t think that’s something
    that Gerald Ford could have foreseen
    when he granted the pardon in 1974 Kira
    is Trump politically
    courageous I I I don’t think so no Trump
    is in no way politically courageous this
    is a tactic uh meant to uh delay uh this
    verdict so that it will not be a factor
    in the election later this year and it
    seems to be working here wanted to make
    clear of the difference there appreciate
    you mark Devin Kim thank you and if you
    want to hear the entire back and forth
    that took place today in our nation’s
    Supreme Court ABC News live will Air the
    full arguments you ready for this
    midnight
    tonight coming up it was a bombshell
    ruling we’re still talking about it New
    York’s highest court overturning the
    rape conviction of movie Mogul Harvey
    winstein yeah we got the details
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    here glad you’re streaming with us we do
    have breaking news out of New York where
    the state’s highest court has now
    overturned the rape conviction of movie
    producer Harvey Weinstein the Court
    finding the trial judge prejudiced
    Weinstein and let women testify about
    allegations that were not part of the
    case well Weinstein was a well-known
    powerful man in the entertainment
    industry but prosecutors said that he
    abused that power that he took advantage
    of aspiring female actors Weinstein was
    arrested in 2018 and he was charged with
    rape and sexual assault then in 2020 he
    was found guilty of both those felonies
    lawyers representing Weinstein spoke
    about today’s ruling take a
    listen there are some people who are
    very unpopular in our
    society but we still have to apply the
    law fairly to them and in this
    Courthouse behind us at that trial the
    law was not applied fairly to Harvey
    Weinstein let’s bring in our contributor
    and former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
    Boyce and also our legal contributor
    here at ABC Brian buckmire Bob you were
    the lead investigator on that case
    against Weinstein you know the ins and
    outs of that case better than anyone
    what was your reaction to
    this surprise I didn’t see didn’t think
    this was going to happen so when it did
    it did surprised me and I will say from
    the outset this was not about the
    witnesses or the victims who who um
    testified against Mr Weinstein this was
    about a strategy the prosecutor used
    bringing uh people to speak about him
    and would not charging for those crimes
    that’s what this is about it’s not in
    any way detriment to their credibility
    this is what happened in this case we’re
    surprised by it we certainly hope that
    Mr uh Mr brg retries the
    case so Brian let’s talk about the
    evidence uh that played into the appeals
    Court’s decision here and then also uh
    what Bob just said about retrying the
    case yeah so for the appell court
    they’re looking at this from an issue of
    quantity not quality and to Bob’s point
    it’s not the quality of the evidence but
    the the quantity of it especially when
    it comes to uncharged Witnesses what the
    attorney Arthur adala was talking about
    about being unfair you can see him there
    in that green hat as uh Harvey Weinstein
    kind of walks into court is that we have
    this rule that you cannot have evidence
    that is more prejudicial than it is
    probative and the argument here is that
    those uncharged Witnesses prejudiced
    Harvey Weinstein without giving
    probative information or not enough
    probative information and that It
    ultimately uh perhaps tilted the jury
    verdict towards a guilt based on that
    prejudice rather than the evidence of
    the
    case so Bob you interviewed so many of
    these victims I want to say survivors um
    what do you say to them today in light
    of of this
    news it’s difficult to speak of this
    because they they really gave up a lot
    by testifying they gave up you know they
    under this public glare for some long
    time their names in the paper they
    really stepped forward and created a new
    environment of me too that people were
    going to step forward and not going to
    be afraid of people in power so I would
    ask them quite BL just stay with it do
    the retrial let’s put this guy away and
    and and make sure that this was not D
    done in vain because of it because of
    the strategy that this really did happen
    we we interviewed so many people Cara
    Cara who said the same thing about it in
    the exact same Amo ammo that he used so
    there’s a lot of evidence there that was
    not brought into the trial this may
    happen in the second trial Brian
    Weinstein has also been convicted of sex
    crimes in California for which he’s
    serving prison time will today’s reing
    impact that in any
    way it will in the sense that I expect
    the defense attorneys to revisit that
    California case and see if there are any
    similarities while this case was decided
    based on New York law California and
    many other states have similar arguments
    that you should only put for information
    that’s more probative than prejudicial
    not the other way around so they’ll
    evaluate the witnesses and to B’s Point
    yes I do think they’ll retry this case
    for the defense they’ll push forward on
    it defending him we’ll be following it
    Bob Brian thanks guys so much appreciate
    you coming up protests across the US on
    college campuses we’re going to take you
    to some of the newest demonstrations
    that are popping up and what
    universities are doing about
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    ABC News
    live developing right now new
    encampments of anti-war protesters
    popping up on other campuses now from
    coast to coast more than a dozen people
    arrested at the University of Maryland
    where students staged a Sittin for
    Palestinians today then in Atlanta
    protesters clashing with police on Emory
    University’s campus even reports of
    getting tazed Georgia State Troopers
    also making several arrests there let’s
    bringing our Phil lip off he’s been
    following all the developments so let’s
    start with the protest at the University
    of Maryland uh not far from here uh in
    ABC News in the center of uh DC what
    happened Phil it doesn’t arrest today as
    you mentioned but for the most part it
    has been a sit in to show solidarity
    with the hundred or so protesters
    arrested at Colombia here in New York
    City last week and to make demands that
    UMD divest from Israel in every way some
    of the students there with some very
    close and personal TI to
    Gaza all of our family is in Rafa so
    they’re under bombardment they’re having
    the issues with food they don’t have
    food they don’t have water uh their
    houses are being bombed and our
    relatives have been being killed just
    want Maryland University of Maryland she
    just recognized that like hey I do exist
    I need their support um I need them like
    I would love for them to divest I don’t
    want my money or tuition money to go
    towards like war and killing people
    certainly is a valid concern there are
    many Jewish students on campuses all
    across this country that find a lot of
    this rhetoric anti-semitic
    Cara so let’s go to Emory University now
    in Atlanta where things actually turned
    violent what do you know yeah that was
    one of the many places it turned violent
    Emory the university says a few dozen
    people Cara came onto campus who
    actually not members of the school
    Community they set up tents in the quad
    and began to clash with police take you
    to Northwestern University in Illinois
    dozens of students have set up tent
    encampment there and are are calling it
    a free Gaza liberated Zone the problem
    is none of these encampments are
    actually seen as liberated Space by any
    of the school administrations that they
    are happening at Northwestern says the
    tents are a violation of school policy
    and when police moved in to take them
    down protesters linked their arms uh and
    tried to keep folks away from them these
    are live pictures where guys from this
    is from Northwestern so you can see
    they’re surrounding the tents there
    again the School says this is not their
    policy uh to allow this to happen
    they’re negotiating with the folks who
    were there at UC Berkeley want to
    mention this kir campus with a very
    proud Legacy as you know of embracing
    social protest and encampment grew
    overnight students say they will not
    leave until the school Cuts all ties
    with Israeli schools and companies with
    ties to Arms suppliers and they want the
    University of California to forly
    recognize Israel’s actions as genocide
    and again many Jewish students on that
    campus say they feel intimidated not
    welcomed with all these uh tents and
    encampments and they find a lot of the
    rhetoric from the protesters
    anti-semitic Phil appreciate your
    reporting and thanks so much for
    streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
    news never stops neither do we we’ve got
    a lot more on the other
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    live and good afternoon everyone I’m
    Kira Phillips today on ABC News live
    Donald Trump a former president and
    presumptive Republican nominee facing
    multiple legal battles all centered
    around charges of corrupting elections
    Trump back at the defense table for his
    criminal hush money trial former
    National inquire publisher David peer
    taking the stand once again after a
    lunch break facing questions about all
    those efforts to catch and kill
    unflattering stories about Donald Trump
    before the 2016 election all of this
    happening as we are also covering a
    historic and unprecedented today for the
    United States Supreme Court the highest
    court in the land hearing arguments over
    presidential immunity and whether former
    president Trump can be prosecuted for
    his efforts to overturn the 2020
    election while he was still in office
    leading us off this hour our
    investigative reporter Livia Rubin just
    outside Court where trial has resumed
    after that brief recess also our legal
    contributor and trial attorney Brian
    buckmire so Olivia what can you tell us
    about Trump’s mannerisms in court or any
    obvious jury reactions maybe uh during
    the Saucy testimony they’ve been
    hearing well Trump does appear focused
    on the testimony that his old friend
    David pecker is giving especially when
    he is recounting some of the specific
    conversations that he personally had
    with Donald Trump or with his attorney
    Michael Cohen uh David pecker testified
    in one instance about talking to Trump
    directly about Michael Cohen that seems
    something Trump was interested in his
    attention did appear to sort you know
    Wayne just based off of his body
    language he was more slumped back when
    it got into some of that more uh
    laborious testimony where David peeker
    is talking about the nitty-gritty of the
    contracts and the payments and the
    accounting of how his company uh the
    national inquire shuffled that $130,000
    payment over to Karen McDougall so he
    seemed to dip out a bit but the jurors
    also seem quite interested in the
    testimony they are taking notes there
    were times uh when pecker was talking
    about a specific in and you could see
    their heads going back and forth from
    peka to pecker to their notes to Joshua
    Stein glass as he’s asking uh the
    questions but I also will just point out
    there is sort of an interesting Dynamic
    going on between the jurors and Donald
    Trump something that’s so fascinating is
    when the jurors come in and out of the
    room all day Kira they are walked
    directly in front of Donald Trump
    basically just inches away from them and
    something that’s so fascinating is that
    as they’re right there they’re
    essentially avoiding eye contact with
    him when they get up close to them I
    noticed that a bunch of them would look
    down at the floor and look away so just
    some really interesting courtroom
    Dynamics underway in there oh yeah to
    say the
    least um Brian your thoughts on maybe
    the most noteworthy moments from David
    Pecker’s
    testimony for me it’s still that
    testimony or that part of the testimony
    sorry where David pecker talks about the
    the friction between him and Michael
    Cohen where they almost went to rip up
    the agreement between the two of them
    and what started that from my
    understanding looking in the testimony
    is that David pecker took this payment
    deal this this catch and kill scheme to
    uh in-house Council and Tred to find a
    way to categorize these payments because
    Donald Trump wasn’t reimbursing uh the
    inquire for those first two stories and
    it almost got to the point where they
    wanted to rip up the agreement because
    inside Council uh said no we can’t do
    this this is wrong to me that seems like
    almost consciousness of guilt especially
    if that information was related to
    Michael Cohen and then ultimately to
    Donald Trump as they push forward on
    that Stormy Daniels case because at
    least there’s an opportunity to say we
    all knew this was wrong including Donald
    Trump and we still went forward but this
    is still the direct examination we still
    have a cross- examination a redirect a
    recross I think we’ll be back and forth
    with David pcker for some time and we
    can ultimately evaluate his testimony
    when he’s done on the stand right and
    Olivia some other Trump news even
    developing like we don’t have enough
    today um he’s been named as this
    unindicted co-conspirator in two other
    state cases how does this news now play
    into already a historic
    day well it’s never going to be a good
    thing to be named as an unindicted
    co-conspirator in a case where you know
    a number of individuals were indicted we
    know just from speaking to sources that
    this is something that uh people around
    him were watching very closely but if
    you think about Donald Trump he has
    already been indicted four time so it
    was probably a relief that he was not
    indicted for a fifth time so to be an
    unindicted co-conspirator one at least
    he is not indicted so it doesn’t exactly
    have any bearing on this case but it is
    just a reminder of the legal situation
    that Donald Trump finds himself if you
    zoom out for just a minute and think
    about the 24 hours that Donald Trump has
    had first he was named as an unindicted
    co-conspirator last night now he is in a
    Fed a state courthouse in Manhattan his
    attorneys are in uh facing the Supreme
    Court in Washington DC and he the
    verdict in his $83 million egene Carroll
    defamation suit was just upheld so quite
    a whirlwind for him these past 24 hours
    um so Brian for those of us that don’t
    have the distinguished law degree like
    you do can you please explain um what
    exactly an unindicted
    co-conspirator is and can you even
    answer the question why wasn’t Trump
    just indicted in these cases so I can
    answer the first and give you some
    speculations for the second an
    unindicted co-conspirators a person uh
    that is thought to have been a part of a
    scheme or a conspiracy with others who
    are indicted but for whatever reason
    they have not been indicted and those
    reasons could be the prosecutor did not
    present that information or those
    charges for that individual to the grand
    jury and the reasons for that could be
    either prosecutorial discretion or I
    would think probably the more obvious
    and the big one is they know that today
    the Supreme Court is deciding about
    Donald Trump’s absolute immunity or
    immunity arguments and so they could be
    waiting to see how that shakes out
    before they present information of
    Donald Trump in these states where he’s
    an unindicted co-conspirator or it could
    be that they don’t have the requisite
    information or evidence to put forward
    that he’s just a piece of the scheme but
    not large enough to show that he’s
    should
    be all right Olivia Brian thank you
    both we are also following well another
    case so we’re going to head from the
    nation’s capital now uh or from New York
    City rather to the nation’s capital and
    that is where we’re talking about Donald
    J Trump once again but this time versus
    the United States and it’s against the
    backdrop of an already divisive 2024
    presidential campaign the US Supreme
    Court just heard those arguments about
    the former president’s claim of absolute
    immunity that outcome could determine
    whether Trump faces a federal trial this
    year on four felony counts pressed by
    special counsel Jack Smith the justices
    made it pretty clear though that um well
    they’re not writing a ruling for the
    ages this case has huge implications for
    the presidency for the future of the
    presidency for the future of the country
    in my view uh I’m not focused on the
    Here and Now of this case I’m very
    concerned about the
    future we have live team coverage
    starting us off with senior Washington
    correspondent Devon DWI he’s outside the
    Supreme Court there where he’s been all
    day also our senior reporter kathern
    falers and legal contributor Kim wayy uh
    and presidential historian Mark
    uptigrove so Devon this trial will
    directly impact when or if former former
    president Trump uh takes or goes to
    trial so what do you think where do
    justices seem to be leaning here well at
    the end of the day Kira it was a good
    day for Donald Trump who wants to avoid
    that federal election interference trial
    certainly before the November election
    while the Supreme Court today did signal
    almost unanimously uh a rejection of
    Donald Trump’s claim of absolute
    immunity from any criminal prosecution
    um they were also very uncomfortable
    with a lower court decision that
    greenlighted uh this case immediately
    the justic is making clear today kir
    that they want to go back to the drawing
    board and find a middle ground come up
    with some uh as you described in your
    intro there a rule for the ages about
    deciding when a president’s conduct is
    protected and when perhaps it could be
    subjected to criminal prosecution like
    the rest of us a president is not above
    the law but to decide that to hash out
    that rule is going to take some time and
    time as we know delay uh Works in Donald
    Trump’s favor so the Supreme Court which
    in this case already has not shown any
    indication of moving particularly
    quickly will now spend some time writing
    this decision we expect it to come out
    before the end of June perhaps sooner uh
    and in all likelihood based on the
    indications today Kira the Supreme Court
    will send this back to a lower court to
    hash out what portions of the conduct
    alleged by Jack Smith around the 20
    election by Donald Trump what portions
    of that conduct are official perhaps
    protected and are maybe private or
    official and unprotected so this can go
    move forward so that shaking out is
    going to take some time and as you’ve
    been saying all morning and all
    afternoon here if this trial does not go
    forward uh it has the potential of being
    killed altogether if Donald Trump wins
    the White House in November because of
    course he’d control the justice
    department and would be able to make all
    of this go away so a lot on the line but
    we do to wait and see how the justices
    rule uh when they hand down their
    opinion well if that were to happen
    Katherine wouldn’t that be a bit of a
    get out of jail free card for the former
    president it would and I think Devon
    teed it up nicely there that Trump and
    his legal team they’re really banking on
    the November election to make all of
    this go away because as Devon noted if
    Trump does win the election then he will
    just direct his justice department for
    example to drop uh the federal cases
    whether it be the January 6th one or the
    classified documents one now if he loses
    then there there is obviously a delay
    here but he’s not off the hook so that
    is something that Trump has been banking
    on since the beginning here so there is
    the likelihood that this will all go
    away for him but of course only if he
    wins the election so then Rick at what
    point do all these legal hurdles
    actually stop fueling Trump’s campaign
    and prop oh we don’t have Rick let me
    ask let me take this to you uh Kim then
    you know is there a point um that
    you know these legal hurdles as we have
    watched in the past um have helped Trump
    is there a point where they could
    actually hurt him depending on the
    outcome well it’s it’s conceivable I
    think it’s highly unlikely it’s
    conceivable that the court will produce
    a clean test and there were some
    questions today about the January 6
    indictment which pieces of it would fall
    within this newly minted criminal
    immunity test they’re about to make
    which pieces would not so it’s possible
    that it’ll go they’ll issue a quick
    ruling it’ll go to judge chuen they’ll
    have a quick round of motions and it
    could still be a trial before the
    election I think however she rules his
    team will say there should be broader
    immunity and want to appeal it so you
    know it’s always possible but I do think
    you know he has the Supreme Court of the
    United States in this moment to thank
    really for delaying this trial
    potentially
    uh passed the election and what I think
    the justices and the majority it looks
    like the conservatives lost sight of is
    if they do create criminal immunity what
    incentive is that going to give a pre
    president Trump in a second term to not
    sort of do more things like January 6
    that was kind of missing from the debate
    today it was very hypothetical
    theoretical as jce Kavanaugh kind of
    talking in these these these wha ifs
    that really blinks the reality of the
    moment in the severity of the moment
    which I think most Americans really
    understand oh Mark what do you think of
    these wh ifs and what it means uh for
    the future of the presidency I think
    Kim’s dead right about the immediate
    effect of this uh Kira that that this
    delay tactic means we we likely will not
    get a decision from the the the court
    until after the election and if Donald
    Trump is indeed uh elected and he he
    beats Joe Biden then he will in all
    likelihood uh take his allow his justice
    department to to kill the case
    altogether but but there are bigger
    ramifications here as as the justices on
    the court alluded to this morning this
    is a huge case in terms of the expansion
    of the power of the presidency already
    an enormously powerful office but what
    does it mean not only to uh uh maybe a
    Joe Biden be being reelected or or
    Donald Trump being elected but what does
    it it it mean for future presidents as
    we expand the powers of what is already
    the most powerful uh office in the world
    making the the the president less
    accountable uh which is one of the
    Hallmarks of American democracy the
    accountability of our elected officials
    in particular our president so there is
    there there are enormous Stakes here in
    this case Kira we’ll monitor it closely
    Devin Katherine Kim Mark and to the
    ghost of our political director Rick
    Klein who wasn’t with us but is always
    with us I thank all of you so
    much so as the US Supreme Court will
    decide whether the president is
    absolutely immune from Criminal
    prosecution I think we have made it
    pretty clear this afternoon how high the
    stakes really are here that’s exactly
    why 19 retired generals Admirals and
    former top service secretaries filed
    this brief opposing former president
    Donald Trump’s bid for immunity from
    prosecution one of those retired
    Admirals is that Allen he has made it
    clear that this case is far more than
    just a former president’s future on the
    line American democracy its security and
    its credibility both at home and abroad
    are also on the line to be clear Admiral
    th Allen joins me now not as a
    politician but as a military leader
    whose greatest concern right now is our
    national security good to see you that
    I’ve known you more uh more than 20
    years and I’ve watched you navigate
    military concerns that many times get
    wrapped up in political debate but again
    you’ve made it clear that your word here
    is about the people not the president
    why did you take part in this Amicus
    brief well you’re absolutely right K my
    my intentions are not political they are
    military and uh political leaders have a
    responsibility to give advice uh to
    political leaders and uh our amikas
    brief to the court is just that it’s our
    advice from a military standpoint uh
    pointing out the significant uh risk
    National Security uh inherent in
    immunity for the president
    let’s talk about that absolute immunity
    would free a president from all
    accountability under our criminal
    justice system as a military leader why
    does that keep you up at
    night well kir it’s an established
    standard in the
    military uh that individuals have a duty
    to disobey an illegal order this has its
    roots back in the nberg trials and the
    myi massacre during
    Vietnam presidential immunity has the
    potential to create a danger and a
    mighty unnecessary transfer of ethical
    moral and legal responsibility from the
    president to his subordinates to
    determine if an order is legal or not
    let me follow up on that word dangerous
    why does this threaten our national
    security give me a classic
    example when you’re conducting military
    operations uh what what you want to do
    is you want to reduce ambiguity and
    create Clarity in the chain of command
    so there’s absolutely certainty about
    what is to be accomplished and how
    that’s how that’s to happen uh if there
    is ambiguity regarding the legality of
    the order the people receiving the order
    have to make a decision about that order
    and in the meantime whatever risks that
    are posed out there that require
    military operations uh are delayed or
    damaged because of the uh inability to
    create a clear chain of command from the
    president down to those executing the
    operations so basically it undermines
    all the principles of military
    leadership
    in my view yes because uh the military
    is built uh basically on a legal
    framework the uniform code of military
    Justice uh that requires good order and
    discipline to execute the orders of the
    president and the military is uh
    subordinate to civilian rule this tends
    to erode and undermine that because uh
    there’s uncertainty about what the
    intent of the orders are especially if
    they’re placed in a position to try and
    determine whether or not they’re
    illegal um that’s definitely dangerous
    and that’s definitely scary when you
    think about it that way and as we all
    have our eyes you know locked in on the
    Supreme Court today what’s the outcome
    that you ultimately want to see
    here well given the risk to military
    operations and National Security uh I
    think we personally would like to see
    the ambiguity that could be inserted
    into military orders from the president
    uh to be removed in Greater Clarity
    established and that happens when the
    president retains the moral and ethical
    responsibility
    to give legal orders Admiral F Allen
    great to see you appreciate your
    time and if you want to hear the entire
    back and forth that took place today in
    our nation’s Supreme Court ABC News live
    will Air the full arguments at midnight
    tonight coming up we continue to follow
    that bombshell ruling New York’s highest
    court overturning the rape conviction of
    movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein
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    how does billionaire sound sounds good
    to me the Moose started chasing a dog
    first thing in the morning America this
    morning America’s number one early
    morning new news on ABC News
    live glad you’re streaming with us we do
    have breaking news out of New York where
    the state’s highest court has overturned
    the rape conviction of movie producer
    Harvey Weinstein the court finding the
    trial judge Prejudice and that Weinstein
    and left left women testify about
    allegations that were not part of the
    case Weinstein was a well-known powerful
    man in the entertainment industry but
    Pro said he abused that power and he
    took advantage of so many aspiring
    female actors Weinstein was arrested in
    2018 and charged with rape and sexual
    assault that in 2020 was found guilty of
    both those felonies lawyers representing
    Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
    here’s what they said there are some
    people who are very unpopular in our
    society but we still have to apply the
    law fairly to them and in this
    Courthouse behind us at that trial the
    law was not applied fairly to Harvey
    Weinstein let’s bring in our legal
    contributor Brian buckmire once again so
    so Brian you know does this take the
    landmark hashtag me to movement
    backwards I’m not sure if it takes the
    movement backwards but definitely the
    strategy in which prosecutor is used in
    this case and that being you have your
    named alleged victims those um who are
    associated with the crimes and then you
    have uncharged alleged victims who
    ranged I think in like the number of
    four of five of them who testified in
    this trial now that strategy of having
    uncorroborated or unindicted uh alleged
    victims that’s going to change uh I
    think we’ve heard that da Bragg is
    intending to repr prosecute this case
    his strategy he Us in his first trial is
    goingon to be different than the next
    one so the Manhattan DA’s office could
    decide to retry this right is that a
    good
    idea that’s a difficult question I I
    think when you first for me you have to
    talk to all the alleged victims everyone
    who testified and if they want this case
    to go forward then I think that becomes
    a good idea because no one wants to see
    these women be re-traumatized by having
    to go through this story I think the
    only way that you can say this is a good
    or bad idea is you let the women lead in
    terms of what they want out of this case
    because ultimately Weinstein is still
    serving time in California but in this
    case it’s been overturned
    well Weinstein has also been convicted
    of sex crimes in California for which
    he’s serving prison time as well uh will
    today’s ruling impact that in any
    way well impact it in the sense that I’m
    I’m very sure knowing the offense
    attorneys who represent Harvey Weinstein
    that they’re going to re-evaluate that
    California case based on the reasoning
    that overturned the case in New York
    while it’s two different states there
    are very similar laws when it comes to
    what evidence can come in and the amount
    of evidence and whether it’s more
    prejudicial than probative which is what
    the judge leaned on in this case to
    overturn his conviction in New York
    Brian buckmire we will follow this of
    course it was pretty stunning news when
    it came uh through today thanks Brian we
    are also following all those protests
    popping up on campuses across the
    country you know what they’re upset
    about it’s the Israel Hamas War we’ll
    tell you what’s happening at this
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    live developing right now new
    encampments of anti-war protesters
    popping up on campuses from coast to
    coast take a look at these dramatic
    images out of Boston protesters there
    locking arms in a circle around tent set
    up on campus of the Northeastern
    University in Southern California
    similar protest being held on the campus
    of UCLA several dozen demonstrators
    forming an encampment of tents and then
    in Atlanta those protesters clashing
    with police on em University’s campus
    even reports of getting tased Georgia
    State Troopers also making several
    arrests let’s bring in our Phil lipop
    he’s been following just the growing
    amount of protests those protesters at
    at Northeastern uh un or is it
    Northeastern or Northwestern
    Northeastern it was Northeastern yep
    okay yeah with circling around with
    their arms yeah that was that’s new
    today it’s hard to keep all of these in
    line because there are new ones that pop
    up all the time Karen as you point out
    this one uh was at Northeastern that we
    can show you they’re they’re holding you
    know arm in- arm around this small
    encampment right there uh in the middle
    of the campus that is just off Boon
    Street there um in Boston there are
    police uh police officers on site but no
    arrests have been made so far it remains
    peaceful then K we go out to
    Northwestern University in Illinois
    dozens of students have set up a tent
    encampment there and are calling it a
    free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
    none of these encampments that we’ve
    been showing you over the course of the
    week are liberated spaces the schools
    don’t see them that way at all uh
    Northwestern says the tents are a
    violation of school policy actually and
    when police moved in to take them down
    protesters linked arms and uh and tried
    to keep police from doing their jobs at
    UCLA we’ve shown you what’s happened at
    USC but at UCLA protesters set up an
    encampment there even building a wooden
    fence uh to surround it hanging signs
    calling for the end of the war in Gaza
    and as you mentioned at Emory down in
    Georgia University says a few dozen
    people came on to campus who are not
    members of the school community and
    that’s not the first time we’ve heard
    that they set up tents on the quad and
    began to clash with police Cara so
    protesters were also actually arrested
    at Emerson uh University in Atlanta is
    that no wait
    oh it was Emerson College in Boston boy
    I can’t I can’t it was Emory in Atlanta
    and now Emerson in Bost oh my gosh I’m
    following you okay good thank you
    because it’s hard for me to keep up with
    all these live pictures and it’s
    changing every hour as as they’ve
    started to pop up okay so at Emerson in
    Boston there’s actual body cam video of
    what happened there yeah this was
    obtained uh by ABC News and this
    happened overnight now we’re getting to
    see it um about 108 protesters were
    arrested in the end this was a pretty
    big one after this encounter with Boston
    police and you can actually hear you
    will in one minute an officer tell this
    crowd they have every right to protest
    and he’s talking in a calm and
    respectful voice and he said look it’s
    late time stamps about 1:30 in the
    morning he said we let you go long after
    10: people have to get up and go to work
    in the morning uh and he asked no fewer
    than five times for them to disperse and
    then this
    happened we don’t want to escalate to do
    anything so again I’ve done a lot of
    these always reasonable we don’t want to
    arrest anybody trust me we all want to
    go home just like we want you to go home
    tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
    any questions um speak to anyone who
    wants to speak to me but just go lat we
    we got to open up free free Palestine
    free free palese free free
    palese yeah car just about as respectful
    as any police officer can be in a
    situation like that and they just
    started you know chanting again and then
    the arrests were made about 108 of them
    but yeah all across the country Kira
    Emerson Emy UCLA USC ivy league as well
    Northeastern Northwestern Northeastern
    Northwestern all the north the list list
    continues Phil thank you so much all
    right and thank you for streaming with
    us I’m Kira Phillips the news never
    stops as you can see and neither do we
    we’ve got a lot more stay with
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    the Moose started chasing a dog first
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    Phillips right now on ABC News live
    Donald Trump a former president and
    current presidential candidate facing
    the multiple legal battles all centered
    around charges of corrupting elections
    Trump back at the defense table for his
    criminal hush money trial
    cross-examination of tabloid publisher
    David pecker has just begun the former
    national inquir executive facing even
    more questions about those efforts to
    catch and kill all the unflattering
    stories about Trump before the 2016
    election let’s bring in our executive
    producer John santui along with legal
    contributor and trial attorney Brian
    buckmire so John David pecker on the
    stand once again detailing how the White
    House and officials there like hope
    Hicks Sarah Huckabee Sanders oh boy all
    the blast from the past actually
    encouraged him to extend American
    media’s contract with Karen McDougall
    break it down for us it’s interesting
    you know there are some things that even
    surprise me to this day that is one
    thing I never knew before and obviously
    you well know that hope hick and Sarah
    Sanders were some of Donald Trump’s
    closest AIDS especially in the early
    days of the White House but to hear that
    David pcker in addition to that was
    walking along the colonade by the Rose
    Garden Donald Trump still asking him how
    Karen McDougall was doing and then those
    two AIDS convening a call with him and
    David pecker asking for their advice
    saying should I extend her contract AKA
    should I pay her more to keep her quiet
    and they all agreed yes you should it’s
    just remarkable and I think part of what
    we have to remember here Kira is that
    David pecker is witness one we do know
    that hope Hicks is expected to be one of
    the prosecution’s witnesses many of us
    that have covered this story from the
    beginning in part thought that was just
    related to hop pix’s time as the head of
    Donald Trump’s Communications for his
    2016 campaign but clearly based off this
    testimony we’re proud prosecutors are
    leading David pecker it seems there’s a
    lot of conversations that were going
    into this affair Stormy Daniels and
    others that prosecutors want to discuss
    in 2017 when of course Donald Trump was
    President so does this mean John that we
    could see Sarah Huckabee Sanders now a
    governor uh possibly take the stand I
    mean listen anything is certainly
    possible I think the one thing I would
    note on that though is that in the start
    of jury selection judge Juan Maran went
    through a list of nearly different plus
    people that could be Witnesses Sarah
    hucke Sanders was not one of them but
    you know I do think Kira one of the
    things that we have to remember is that
    that’s just the list of possible
    Witnesses it can certainly shrink it
    could certainly widen and then that’s
    the other thing we have to remember that
    right now this is just a presentation by
    prosecutors we have no idea how the
    defense will respond they obviously
    intend to because we know Donald Trump
    says famously he’s a counter puncher so
    they’re going to put some type of
    presentation on could it be Sarah
    Sanders could it be other White House
    AIDS we know that you know one of the
    other names that came up as part of that
    presentation by judge Juan Maran two
    prospective jurors was that possibly
    former white house chief of staff Ryan
    prus is another name so you know at the
    end of the day it’s really could be a
    who’s who of takes the stand Hecker
    being one got a lot more to go so Brian
    what do you think of
    that I think it might open up the
    Pandora’s Box if Donald Trump and his
    team starts inviting these other people
    to come and testify uh typically and and
    John is is correct I’m just making sure
    my computer’s not mute when I say that
    uh but typically a witness list can
    expand or or decrease um in in a way but
    if Sarah hucke Sanders wasn’t initially
    on that witness list it is very unlikely
    for her to show up later the main issue
    being that if she does and a juror knows
    her in some way shape or form they could
    have been disqual they could disqualify
    themselves in the middle of a trial I
    think more likely than not what’s going
    to happen happen is uh hope Hicks will
    either take the stand as a potential
    witness and either corroborate or say
    that that conversation was different but
    I want to highlight another important
    part uh because my understanding is that
    pecker is done with the direct
    examination in the end I think the
    prosecution did a very good job of
    saying aren’t you still friends with
    Donald Trump do you not still consider
    him one wasn’t he a very good uh person
    to you when a when a loved one passed
    away and that I think will take away a
    potential sting of Donald Trump’s
    attorneys getting up there and being
    like this is about vindication this is
    you trying to throw your friend on the
    bus you don’t like him you haven’t
    spoken to him since 2019 having that
    preemptive I’m still friends with him I
    think helps the prosecution in this
    case so John what do you think overall
    how’s this going for
    Trump so I think so far I mean it’s it’s
    going okay I mean I think one of the
    things that you know we have to remember
    is that Donald Trump um is really taking
    this all in I do think the notes that
    we’re getting from our team in court um
    is actually remarkable about so much of
    his body language K you know he’s
    passing notes to people he’s leaning in
    um you know he he’s shrugging his
    shoulders you know letting out exhales
    sometimes uh as people are talking this
    is just the beginning I do think this is
    actually you know in some ways one of
    the hardest Witnesses for Donald Trump
    and what I mean by that is that you know
    as we’ve been talking about you know he
    knows what Michael Cohen’s going to say
    he knows what Stormy Daniels is going to
    say there are some witnesses here you
    know some of the former assistants like
    Rona rph and meline westerhouse and
    others that we’ve never heard from and
    David pcker is in that camp up until
    this point he has kept his mouth shut
    his story has really been silent for the
    last eight plus years so I just think
    these people telling all about Donald
    Trump telling all their personal
    conversations their dealings look we
    know Donald Trump values loyalty more
    than anything else so anybody up there
    even though they’re compelled under oath
    to tell the truth is still something
    that hurts Donald Trump at his
    core John Brian thank you well something
    else is still hurting him at the core we
    go from New York to that courtroom to
    the nation’s capital where it’s Donald J
    Trump versus the United States against
    the backdrop of an already devisive 2024
    presidential campaign the US Supreme
    Court just heard those arguments about
    the former president’s claim of absolute
    immunity the outcome could actually
    determine whether Trump faces a federal
    trial this year on four felony counts
    pressed by special counsel Jack Smith
    the Justice is making it clear they know
    they are writing a ruling for the ages
    this case has huge implications for the
    presidency for the future of the
    presidency for the future of the country
    in my view uh I’m not focused on the
    Here and Now of this case I’m very
    concerned about the
    future we have live team coverage to
    talk about the future starting us off
    senior Washington correspondent Devon
    dwire just outside the Supreme Court our
    legal contributor Kim
    and also our presidential historian Mark
    upd Gro so Devon this is the second case
    the justices have taken up involving
    Trump this year let’s talk about how
    significant this case is compared to the
    case we heard what just a few months ago
    yeah a few months ago the Supreme Court
    here Kira took up whether Donald Trump
    could be kicked off the ballot for his
    part uh in the January 6th events here
    at the United States capital and
    unanimously the Supreme Court said
    individual states could not do that that
    it would be too disruptive a big win for
    Donald Trump today a much different case
    this one focused very much on the powers
    uh and immunities of the institution of
    the presidency certainly Donald Trump uh
    is front and center and his alleged
    crimes related to his efforts to stay in
    power after the last election but today
    so much of the conversation focused on
    the Constitution and what protections a
    president has uh it did seem today Kira
    that the majority of justices rejected
    this idea that a president has
    absolutely immunity from any sort of
    criminal prosecution but they really
    wrestled with where to draw the line
    what’s the test for deciding what sorts
    of things the president do does in an
    office are immune from prosecution and
    what sorts of things are not we saw
    heard Myriad different takes on that but
    so much is on the line not just for
    Donald Trump but for the future of this
    country uh going forward and it was
    clear from Brett Cavanaugh as you heard
    in that sound bite but also Neil Gorsuch
    that the justices are really going to
    want to take their time and something
    comprehensive thoughtful uh maybe it
    gives some leeway to Donald Trump in in
    a sense giving him a win that this trial
    that’s really in front of us could get
    delayed but they want to get it right so
    that future presidents would know what
    the boundaries are
    Kira boundaries something Trump uh does
    not know very much about Kim will the
    justices carve out any kind of immunity
    in the criminal
    context for sure H even the government
    conceded uh so somewhat surprisingly
    frankly that anything that’s articulated
    in Article 2 like the pardon power the
    par the power to make appointments the
    power to veto uh that that should be
    immunized um but it’s a really different
    thing from hypothesizing about Congress
    passing a new law infringing on those
    powers and basically saying no
    indictments um and that’s a line I think
    that wasn’t really clearly articulated
    by the government and could have really
    been tightened up and so these
    concessions I think frankly will produce
    a new test and what will happen we’ll go
    back to J judge chuin to slice and dice
    the January 6 indictment to decide which
    pieces are okay and which pieces are not
    okay and uh presumably she will rule in
    part against Donald Trump’s uh lawyers
    and that’ll be appealed so for sure this
    is I think highly unlikely to go to
    trial before November and that is
    absolutely a win particularly given that
    polls show that uh you know a felony
    conviction could sway even some of his
    most staunch supporters against actually
    pulling the lever in The Ballot Box in
    November for Donald Trump wow that would
    be interesting um uh indeed and then
    just listening to the justices on those
    recordings Mark and talking about the
    huge implications that they realize the
    huge implications let’s talk about what
    those could be and also just the
    significance of the timing of this case
    with less than six months until the
    November election well car there’s the
    short term and there’s longterm
    shortterm uh again as as Kim suggested
    this this is a big win for Donald Trump
    as it is another example of how delaying
    things weighs in his favor and we will
    we may not get a verdict in this case
    until after the election if we get one
    at all if Trump becomes our next
    president he’s likely to to to uh uh
    ensure that this case doesn’t go forward
    altogether so uh there that’s the the
    the the short term uh the longer term is
    the justices are absolutely right to be
    concerned with the precedent that this
    sets how it changes things uh to make
    things more uh to make the the position
    of of President far more powerful so
    there are major long-term ramifications
    here and uh it’s good that the Justice
    are justices are thinking in those terms
    Kira thank you all so much appreciate
    each and every one of
    you so as the US Supreme Court will
    decide whether the president is
    absolutely immune from Criminal
    prosecution I think we have made made it
    pretty clear this afternoon how high the
    stakes really are here that’s exactly
    why 19 retired generals Admirals and
    former top service secretaries filed
    this brief opposing former president
    Donald Trump’s bid for immunity from
    prosecution one of those retired
    Admirals is that Allen he has made it
    clear that this case is far more than
    just a former president’s future on the
    line American democracy its security and
    its credibility both at home and abroad
    are also on the line to be clear Admiral
    th Allen joins me now not as a
    politician but as a military leader
    whose greatest concern right now is our
    national security good to see you that
    I’ve known you more uh more than 20
    years and I’ve watched you navigate
    military concerns that many times get
    wrapped up in political debate but again
    you’ve made it clear that your worry
    here is about the people not the
    president why did you take part in this
    Amicus
    brief well you’re absolutely right Cara
    my my intentions are not political they
    are military and uh political leaders
    have a responsibility to give advice uh
    to political leaders and uh our amikas
    brief to the court is just that it’s our
    advice from a military standpoint uh
    pointing out the significant uh risk to
    National Security uh inherent in
    immunity for the president let’s talk
    about that absolute immunity would free
    a president from all accountability
    under our criminal justice system as a
    military leader
    why does that keep you up at
    night well Kira it’s an established
    standard in the
    military uh that individuals have a duty
    to disobey an illegal order this has its
    roots back in the nerenberg trials and
    the myi massacre during Vietnam a
    presidential immunity has the potential
    to create a dangerous and a mighty
    unnecessary transfer of ethical moral
    and legal responsibility from the
    president to his subordinates to
    determine if an order is legal or not
    let me follow up on that word dangerous
    why does this threaten our national
    security give me a classic
    example when you’re conducting military
    operations uh what what you want to do
    is you want to reduce ambiguity and
    create Clarity in the chain of command
    so there’s absolutely certainty about
    what is to be accomplished and how
    that’s how that’s to happen uh if there
    is ambiguity regarding the legality of
    the order the people receiving the order
    have to make a decision about that order
    and in the meantime whatever risks that
    are posed out there that require
    military operations uh are you delayed
    or damage because of the uh inability uh
    to create a clear chain of command from
    the president down to those executing
    the operations so basically it
    undermines all the principles of
    military
    leadership in my view yes because uh the
    military is built uh basically on a
    legal framework the uniform code of
    military Justice uh that requires good
    order and discipline to execute the
    orders of the president and the military
    is a subordinate to civilian rule this T
    erode and undermine that because uh
    there’s uncertainty about what the
    intent of the orders are especially if
    they’re placed in a position to try and
    determine whether or not they’re
    illegal um that’s definitely dangerous
    and that’s definitely scary when you
    think about it that way and as we all
    have our eyes you know locked in on the
    Supreme Court today what’s the outcome
    that you ultimately want to see here
    well given the risk to military
    operations and National Security uh I
    think we personally would like to see
    the ambiguity that could be inserted
    into military orders from the president
    uh to be removed in Greater Clarity
    established and that happens when the
    president retains the moral and ethical
    responsibility to give legal
    orders Admiral F Allen great to see you
    appreciate your
    time and if you want to hear the entire
    back and forth that took place today in
    our nation’s Supreme Court ABC News live
    will Air the full arguments at midnight
    tonight coming up we continue to follow
    that bombshell ruling New York’s highest
    court overturning the rape conviction of
    movie Mogul Harvey
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    Weinstein Sunday night people think they
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    John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
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    arguments begin in Donald Trump’s big
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    here first thing in the morning there’s
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    sounds good to me the Moose started
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    glad you’re streaming with us we do have
    breaking news out of New York where the
    state’s highest court has overturned the
    rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
    Weinstein the court finding the trial
    judge Prejudice and that Weinstein and
    Le left women testify about allegations
    that were not part of the case Weinstein
    was a well-known powerful man in the
    entertainment industry but prosecutors
    said he abused that power and he took
    advantage of so many aspiring female
    actors Weinstein was arrested in 2018
    and charged with rape and sexual assault
    that in 2020 was found guilty of both
    those felonies lawyers representing
    Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
    here’s what they said there are some
    people who are very unpopular in our
    society but we still have to apply the
    law fairly to them and in this
    Courthouse behind us at that trial the
    law was not applied fairly to Harvey
    Weinstein
    let’s bring in our legal contributor
    Brian buckmire once again so so Brian
    you know does this take the landmark
    hash me to movement
    backwards I’m not sure if it takes the
    movement backwards but definitely the
    strategy in which prosecutors is used in
    this case and that being you have your
    named alleged victims those um who are
    associated with the crimes and then you
    have uncharged alleged victims who
    ranged I think in like the number of
    four or five of them who testified in
    this trial now that strategy of having
    uncorroborated or unindicted uh alleged
    victims that’s going to change uh I
    think we’ve heard that da Bragg is
    intending to repr prosecute this case
    his strategy they use in his first trial
    is GNA be different than the next
    one so the Manhattan DA’s office could
    decide to retry this right is that a
    good
    idea that’s a difficult question I I
    think when you first for me you have to
    talk to all the alleged victims everyone
    who testified and if they want this case
    to go forward then I think that becomes
    a good idea because no one wants to see
    these women be re-traumatized by having
    to go through this story I think the
    only way that you can say this is a good
    or bad idea is you let the women lead in
    terms of what they want out of this case
    because ultimately Weinstein is still
    serving time in California but in this
    case it’s been
    overturned well Weinstein has also been
    convicted of sex crimes in California
    for which he’s serving prison time as
    well uh well today’s ruling impact that
    in any
    way we impact it in the sense that I’m
    I’m very sure knowing the offense
    attorneys who represent Harvey Weinstein
    that they’re going to re-evaluate that
    California case based on the reasoning
    that overturned the case in New York
    while it’s two different states there
    are very similar laws when it comes to
    what evidence can come in and the amount
    of evidence and whether it’s more
    prejudicial than probative which is what
    the judge leaned on in this case to
    overturn his conviction in New York
    Brian buckmire we will follow this of
    course it was pretty stunning news when
    it came uh through today thanks Brian we
    are also following all those protests
    popping up on campuses across the
    country you know what they’re upset
    about it’s the Israel Hamas War we’ll
    tell you what’s happening at this
    hour Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture’s going to fade the all new
    event special start singing by the way
    I’m a cowboy yeah thank you Michael
    Michael stran John Von Joy I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
    lot going on get another Avalanche
    warning that’s up to catch you up with
    what happened overnight a dangerous ice
    storm is impacting the morning
    what’s happening today escalating
    tensions in the Middle East what people
    are talking about the migrant crisis
    fast straightforward with some fun in
    between how does billionaire sound
    sounds good to me the Moose started
    chasing a dog first thing in the morning
    America this morning America’s number
    one early morning news on ABC News
    live ABC News America’s number one news
    source reporting from Miami Florida I’m
    Victor okendo wherever the story is
    we’ll take you there you’re streaming
    ABC News
    live developing right now new
    encampments of anti-war protesters
    popping up on campuses from coast to
    coast take a look at these dramatic
    images out of Boston protesters there
    locking arms in a circle around tents
    set up on campus of the Northeastern
    University in Southern California
    similar protest being held on the campus
    of UCLA several dozen demonstrators
    forming an encampment of tents and then
    in Atlanta those protesters clashing
    with police on Emery University’s campus
    even reports of getting tased George
    Estate Troopers also making several
    arrests let’s bring in our Phil lipof
    he’s been following just the growing
    amount of protests those protesters at
    at Northeastern uh un or is it
    Northeastern or Northwestern
    Northeastern it was Northeastern yep
    okay yeah with circling around with
    their arms yeah that was that’s new
    today it’s hard to keep all of these uh
    in line because there are new ones that
    pop up all the time Kieran as you point
    out this one uh was at Northeastern that
    we can show you they’re they’re holding
    you know arm in arm around this small
    encampment right there uh in the middle
    of the campus that is just off Boon
    Street there um in Boston there are
    police uh police officers on site but no
    arrests have been made so far it remains
    peaceful then K we go out to
    Northwestern University in Illinois
    dozens of students have set up a tent
    encampment there and are calling it a
    free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
    none of these encampments that we’ve
    been showing you over the course of the
    week are liberated spaces the schools
    don’t see them that way at all uh
    Northwestern says the tents are a
    violation of school policy actually and
    when police moved in to take them down
    protesters linked arms and uh and and
    tried to keep police from doing their
    jobs at UCLA we’ve shown you what’s
    happened at USC but at UCLA protesters
    set up an encampment there even building
    a wooden fence uh to surround it hanging
    signs calling for the end of the war in
    Gaza and as you mentioned at Emory down
    in Georgia University says a few dozen
    people came on to campus who are not
    members of the school community and
    that’s not the first time we’ve heard
    that they set up tents on the quad and
    began to clash with police Cara so
    protesters were also actually arrested
    at Emerson uh University in Atlanta is
    that no wait oh it was Emerson College
    in Boston boy I can’t I can’t keep it
    was
    in Atlanta and now Emerson in Boston oh
    my gosh I’m following you okay good
    thank you because it’s hard for me to
    keep up with all these live pictures and
    it’s changing every hour as as they’ve
    started to pop up okay so at Emerson in
    Boston there’s actual body cam video of
    what happened there yeah this was
    obtained uh by ABC News and this
    happened overnight now we’re getting to
    see it um about 108 protesters were
    arrested in the end this was a pretty
    big one after this encounter with Boston
    police and you can actually hear you
    will in one minute an officer tell this
    crowd they have every right to protest
    and he’s talking in a calm and
    respectful voice and he said look it’s
    late time stamps about 1:30 in the
    morning he said we let you go long after
    10: people have to get up and go to work
    in the morning uh and he asked no fewer
    than five times for them to disperse and
    then this
    happened we don’t want to escalate to do
    anything so again I’ve done a lot of
    these Ro reasonable we don’t want to
    arrest any trust me we all want to go
    home just like we want you to go home
    tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
    any questions um speak to anyone who
    wants to speak to me but just go lat we
    we got to open up free free Palestine
    free free
    Palestine yeah car just about as
    respectful as any police officer can be
    in a situation like that and they just
    started you know chanting again and then
    the arrests were made about 108 of them
    but yeah all across the country Kira
    Emerson Emery UCLA USC ivy league as
    well Northeastern Northwestern
    Northeastern Northwestern all the north
    list list continues Phil thank you so
    much right and thank you for streaming
    with us I’m Kira Phillips the news never
    stops as you can see and neither do we
    we’ve got a lot more stay with
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    and hello everyone I’m Kiera Phillips
    some of the top headlines we’re watching
    for you at the top of the hour here on
    ABC News live Donald Trump former
    president and presumptive Republican
    nominee facing multiple legal battles
    all centered around charges of
    corrupting elections he is back at the
    defense table for his criminal hush
    money trial cross-examination of tabloid
    publisher David pecker has just begun
    the former National inquire executive
    facing even more questions about all
    those efforts to catch and kill all un
    flattering stories about Trump before
    the 2016 election and this is all
    happening on a historic and
    unprecedented day for the United States
    Supreme Court as well the highest court
    in the land hearing arguments over
    presidential immunity and whether former
    president Trump can be prosecuted for
    his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020
    election while he was still in office if
    you want to hear the entire back and
    forth that took place today on Nation
    Supreme Court ABC News live will Air the
    full arguments at midnight tonight also
    new encampment of anti-war protesters
    popping up on campuses from coast to
    coast now we’ve got these images out of
    Boston where protesters are locking arms
    in a circle around those tents set up on
    campus at Northeastern University then
    in Atlanta protesters clashing with
    police on Emery University’s campus even
    reports of getting tazed Georgia State
    Troopers also making several arrests
    there then back in Southern California
    another protest held this time on the
    campus of UCLA several dozen
    demonstrators forming an encampment of
    tents there and then at USC well it
    announced it’s cancelling its main
    commencement ceremony now that was
    scheduled for next month we’re all
    seeing the repercussions of these
    protests now well it’s a moment of
    triumph over tragedy new video showing
    the first cargo ship passing through a
    temporary water channel in the Port of
    Baltimore it’s the first major vessel
    traveling through since last month’s
    devastating bridge collapse in the
    inaugural Voyager BSA 94 at passed
    through debris as it exited the 35- Ft
    Channel this morning on its way to
    Canada so glad you’re streaming with us
    I’m Kira Phillips ABC News live is here
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    news and Analysis you can also find us
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    abcnews.com the news never stops more
    gma3 right
    now what you need to know right now on
    GMA 3 the Arizona house votes to repeal
    a controversial Civil War era abortion
    ban after three Republicans cross party
    lines to join Democrats to overturn it
    former president Donald Trump back in
    New York criminal court now as an
    unindicted co-conspirator in the alleged
    fake electors case in Arizona and
    Michigan as the Supreme Court takes up
    his claim of presidential immunity Pro
    Palestinian protests Cascade across
    American college campuses from New York
    City to Texas to California our team
    with the gma3 Deep dive on what’s at
    stake and we’ll meet the NCAA star
    shining of the college baseball diamond
    why he stands out among D1
    competitors and decades after Congress
    ordered repatriation of sacred objects
    to Native Americans where things stand
    one University going through the
    painstaking process
    plus turning your shower routine into a
    spa worthy experience Sarah egenberger
    is here with what you need to know my TB
    usually appears as a small cavitary
    lesion is that
    a right we need to get him up to CT as
    soon as possible this is definitely not
    TB also it’s one of the longest running
    most successful medical shows in network
    history Gray’s Anatomy star Kim Raver
    here taking us inside the operating room
    in the hit Show’s 20th season and the
    Motor City is revving up for the NFL
    draft as the hottest prospects get ready
    to see their dreams and hard work turn
    into
    reality now from Time Square Eva Pilgrim
    and DeMarco Morgan with Dr Jen Ashton
    and what you need to
    know yes I got you good afternoon
    everybody and thanks for joining us on
    this baby Friday can you tell I’m tired
    no no no that’s good in you there it’s
    good to have you with us folks we
    appreciate it and Dr Darion is in good
    afternoon Dr Jen I was good to see you
    man you look so happy and so bright I
    got a lot of sleep last night I feel
    great how did you good more than I did
    not I’m jealous sorry to hear that um I
    didn’t realize this when I brought Candy
    out to the set today but we’re actually
    going to be talking about sugar we are I
    didn’t even think of that either yeah so
    School meals around the country have now
    um some standards about how much sugar
    can be in those meals definitely not SK
    those are delicious um but this is
    actually I think a good thing it’s a
    push in the right direction making
    healthier meals for children uh new
    guidelines from the Department of
    Agriculture and I just want to show you
    what they are so the goal is just
    basically changing these lunches and
    breakfasts to making them better the
    goal by 2025 to 2026 is to restrict high
    sugar foods like cereal yogurt and
    flavored milk and then beyond that by
    2027 they want to limit added sugar by
    no more than 10% or decreasing it by 10%
    of the weekly goal of calories and also
    by 15% in lunches this is so important
    because an estimated one out of five
    children live with obesity and to be
    honest the statistics are even more
    concerning when you look at the studies
    overall those children that are obese in
    the ages of 10 to 13 are more than 80%
    likely to be obese when they’re becoming
    an adult so it’s not about just now but
    also avoiding the complications in the
    future all right doc thank you very much
    we appreciate it let’s check it out with
    ABC’s M wi in Washington with a look at
    your latest headlines good to see you my
    friend good to see you DeMarco good
    afternoon and we begin with the breaking
    news about Hollywood’s Harvey Weinstein
    a New York appeals court overturning the
    former movie mogul’s 2020 conviction on
    rape charges the state’s High Court
    finding the judge in the landmark me too
    trial in New York may have ruled
    improperly when he let women testify
    about allegations that were not a part
    of the case because Weinstein is already
    convicted in California he will not be
    released but instead transferred to the
    custody of prison authorities in
    California Arizona coming one step
    closer to repealing a near total Civil
    War ban on abortion written into law
    before it was a state and before women
    had the right to vote three Republicans
    joining Democrats to repeal that
    legislation in the house now it needs to
    clear the state senate lawmakers back in
    session next week former president Trump
    is back in a New York City courtroom in
    his hush money criminal trial and he’s
    now named an unindicted co-conspirator
    in alleged election fraud cases in
    Arizona and Michigan and alleged fake
    elector schemes to keep Trump in office
    against the will of the voters some top
    Trump allies charged in Arizona this as
    the US Supreme Court considers the
    former presidents claims that he cannot
    be prosecuted over alleged attempts to
    overturn the election because of quote
    presidential immunity Trump denies all
    wrongdoing and now the new economic
    numbers just out the Commerce Department
    reporting us growth slowed sharply in
    the last quarter growing at an
    annualized rate of
    1.6% many analysts were hoping for some
    weakening to cool inflation but not too
    much now to our Ginger Z with your
    weather we’ve got a 4-day long outbreak
    that’s coming at us severe weatherwise
    tonight it looks like big hail in parts
    of Kansas down through Texas Western
    Oklahoma too into the Panhandle there
    and then the tornado hail threat moves
    East and includes damaging winds all the
    way down to Dallas Kansas City needs to
    be on the out as does much of
    Southwestern Iowa so a big couple of
    days and it also keeps going in very
    similar areas through the
    weekend thank you Ginger and thousands
    of football fans are descending on the
    Motor City ahead of tonight’s NFL draft
    dreams are about to come true in Detroit
    for some top prospects and their teams
    you can catch it all right here tonight
    on ABC and ESPN at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and
    I cannot wait to see the reactions on
    their faces when they get this you know
    not just the reaction but the outfits
    the suits the fashion will be high they
    got their M and their daddies and every
    you know it we’re all watching Em thank
    you very much we appreciate it there’s
    much more ahead here on gma3 on this
    Thursday inside the pro Palestinian
    protest growing on American college
    campuses our team with the Deep dive
    coming up and later you’re going to love
    this kid right here why Parker bird is
    making history on the college baseball
    timing and inspiring and so many others
    we’re glad you’re watching gma3 come on
    back
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    there’s a lot going on got another
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    News live tonight the Supreme Court
    takes on the power of the presidency
    oral arguments begin in Donald Trump’s
    bid for immunity plus tornado severe
    weather the 10 states in the path more
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    with David mure the most watched
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    television welcome back to gma3 Pro
    Palestinian protest erupting on college
    campuses across the country from USC to
    the University of Texas at Austin and
    right here in New York City at Columbia
    University some of the protests leading
    to clashes with police as students
    demand the universities divest funds
    from companies profiting from Israeli
    military operations while protesters
    push for ceasefire in Gaza arguing they
    have a right to free speech many Jewish
    students are saying they feel unsafe
    with critics calling the protest
    anti-semitic joining us now is attorney
    and ABC News contributor Brian buckmire
    and from Columbia University ABC’s
    Stephanie Ramos Stephanie let’s start
    with you just set the scene for us there
    what’s happening on campus at Colombia
    today well Eva right now it is calm
    outside Columbia University and on the
    campus as well most of the protests here
    have been peaceful according to
    administrators it’s also what we’ve
    witnessed there have been some
    individuals especially last week that
    were arrested for trespassing but we
    heard from the New York city mayor on
    this just a few days ago uh and NYPD
    officials saying that a majority of the
    individuals causing the chaos causing
    violence and uh spewing rhetoric have
    been unaffiliated with the university I
    can tell you the last couple of nights
    here at Columbia University Pro
    Palestinian student demonstrators Jewish
    and non-jewish alike have come together
    for a Sater dinner to celebrate the the
    Jewish holiday of Passover many of them
    saying they’re not leaving they’re
    staying here on the west lawn at the
    encampment so that their voices are
    heard so that they can get their message
    across all while the university is
    expecting them to come up with a plan to
    disperse by tomorrow so Brian do
    protesters have a First Amendment right
    to protest on school grounds and know
    the president of K University is under
    Fire right now for calling police in
    last week to break up some of those
    student protest encampments uh Stephanie
    just mentioned more than 100 arrests
    there well well Dem Marco the important
    distinction is who are those protesters
    if we’re talking about people who are
    University students they have a
    different right they have the ability to
    kind of argue under the first amendment
    of time Manner and place to have their
    voice heard but if you’re a distractor
    or an agitator and even though I think
    Stephanie said many of the people in law
    enforcement is specifically saying many
    of the people who have been arrested are
    not students um those people have
    different rights because they could be
    arrested for trespassing and they have
    different rights when it comes to going
    onto a private university and trying to
    use their voice so you have to make the
    distinction as to who is making uh the
    comments and where and also what they’re
    saying Stephanie house Speaker Mike
    Johnson visited Colombia yesterday what
    can you tell us about his
    visit yeah so the speaker of the house
    was here he met with Jewish students uh
    many uh many of which I spoke with
    afterwards and they told me that they
    shared with the speaker just instances
    instances of them being harassed and
    intimidated the last couple of weeks
    just sharing what they’ve seen the last
    couple of weeks here on campus house
    Speaker Mike Johnson then spoke with
    reporters and press and and some other
    students who had gathered to see him uh
    he was interrupted he was booed but he
    called on the school’s President to
    resign he also said that all all and any
    anti-semitic uh incidents need to stop
    now we spoke with student demonstrators
    who who were there who were listening
    and and they said they would have appre
    appreciated some time with him as well
    to share with him why they’re doing what
    they’re doing and that they stand with
    Gaza and that they just want their
    voices heard so Brian if protesters are
    arrested what type of legal troubles are
    they
    facing again DeMarco depends on who that
    protester is if this is a student for
    example at Columbia University who is on
    that lawn as Stephanie is describing and
    an officer gives him a lawful order to
    leave and they do not in New York that
    could be what’s called obstruction of
    governmental Administration as well as
    resisting arrest those are a mises but
    if we start talking about the harassment
    and intimidation of some of those Jewish
    students New York and many other states
    have hate crime statutes so to Target
    someone based on their race religion
    Creed or identifiable um entity all
    right that can have them facing hate
    crime charges and we don’t want to see a
    situation where people are targeted uh
    regardless of their background of
    religion and so that could have more
    serious uh penalties it’s an ongoing
    conversation that we’re going to be
    having for sure Stephanie Romas Brian
    buckmire thank you both for being with
    us today
    and when we come back he’s making
    history at home plate yeah competing at
    the college level is something the star
    player always dreamed of how it all came
    true when gma3
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    hi where are you where are you
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    you it’s SM David
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    coming make it your daily first listen
    wherever you get your podcasts Sunday
    night people think they really know you
    what do you think is the biggest
    misconception about
    you John Bon jie I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    pictures is going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you
    Micha Michael Strahan John bonji I’m a
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    John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
    on
    ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
    lot going on got another Avalanche
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    fast straightforward with some fun in
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    sounds good to me the Moose started
    chasing a dog first thing in the morning
    America this morning America’s number
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    live reporting from marago I’m Rachel
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    live B four outside the picture of
    resilience and fight Parker bird will
    receive an ovation he’s got a pinch
    Runner and an Embrace with his head
    coach Cliff Godwin how cool I am so
    excited about this guy welcome back to
    gma3 that was the history making debut
    of Parker bird one of the very few NCAA
    division one baseball players to play in
    a game with a prosthetic leg and joining
    us here with his inspiring story as East
    Carolina University Pirates infielder
    and pitcher Parker Bird
    Parker thanks for having me on today I’m
    excited this was you know when you play
    baseball as a little boy this was
    something you had to have dreamed of
    that opportunity to play at the
    Collegiate level getting to do this now
    after everything you’ve been through
    what was that like you know it’s awesome
    uh just all the hard work that I put in
    after my accident for the past year and
    a half just to get back out on the field
    to show people that uh just because
    tragedy hits doesn’t mean your life’s
    over and think it’s just testing my
    family and all the pts and really
    everybody has helped me along the way
    the doctors teammates coaches and
    everybody just kept believing in me so I
    think it’s just a testament of them and
    this all happened as a result of a tubin
    accident that’s right you’ve had 22
    surgeries since then did you ever think
    you were about to lose your life I you
    came close to death yeah yeah well um
    initially I did so uh with that accident
    I think my blood pressure was really low
    60 over 30 and that’s they gave me every
    blood product they had on the helicopter
    and um but after once they got the
    bleeding to stop it was kind of roller
    coaster events with the losing my leg
    and first we thought I was going to be
    able to keep it and everything was going
    to be fine just get back on the field
    with some extensive rehab and then uh
    about 10 days or so my right foot became
    very pale and cold and they told me hey
    you have two options either amputate or
    die basically and uh told him he let’s
    amputate and keep going with life and uh
    told him the leg doesn’t Define me that
    uh there’s much more to life in baseball
    and uh here I am today still playing it
    so so is it your faith that keeps you
    going 100% yeah I think uh my family
    always we’re very gr uh grounded in our
    faith and uh we always have been and
    just believing in him that his plan’s
    bigger than ours and uh it’s hard to
    believe uh see that when you’re going
    through it but on the outside of it now
    I just everything works out for good so
    many people look at you and your story
    and what you’ve been able to accomplish
    and they’re so inspired by it hear
    people inspired by what you’ve been able
    to do what’s that like you know that’s
    really my goal in life now is just to
    inspire others and to show them that hey
    your life’s not over um that his plan is
    bigger than ours and never thought I’d
    be put in the position to show people
    that but um he has a way of working his
    way so um it’s really cool just to see
    UT kids at games now that are Inspire my
    my story not just amputees but really
    just families that are of amput and just
    people that are going through things
    whether that being divorce or not
    getting to a college whatever it is and
    uh just being an inspiration of them and
    showing them that hey you can keep going
    in life with hard work is pretty cool
    and folks in this building I mean she’s
    right you’ve inspired so many people
    this is the first time I’ve been here
    for a year we get stars all the time I
    had to meet you before the show I had to
    find your dressing room and embrace and
    hug this guy because you’re such an
    inspiration keep doing what you’re doing
    man we’re so proud of you yes sir thank
    you thank you for sharing your story
    with us and best of luck to you and and
    your ECU Pirates
    season just ahead here on gma3 Dr Darion
    with a look at your prescription for
    wellness plus the beauty and power of
    water we’re stepping up your daily
    shower into a spa day come on back one
    more time for Park
    [Applause]
    [Music]
    everybody first thing in the morning
    there’s a lot going on get another
    Avalanche warning that’s up to catch you
    up with what happened overnight a
    dangerous ice storm is impacting the
    morning commute what’s happening today
    escalating tensions in the Middle East
    what people are talking about the
    migrant crisis fast straightforward with
    some fun in between how does billionaire
    sound sounds good to me the Moose
    started chasing a dog first thing in the
    morning America this morning America’s
    number one early morning news on ABC
    News
    live Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think is the
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    John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
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    picture is going to fade the all new
    event special going start singing by the
    way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
    roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC why do so many people start their
    day here from ABC News this is start
    here to be in the know and get a
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    a lot of news today so let’s get into it
    listen now to the Daily News podcast
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    listen now that’s a part of the story I
    bet you didn’t see coming wherever you
    get your podcasts start here we have a
    beautiful young woman killed at the very
    beginning of her life what happens when
    the interrogation helps put the wrong
    man in prison I wasn’t nowhere around
    promise to God until years later when
    the real killer steps into the box the
    tough question here is what’s the chance
    your D will match that Al
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on
    EBC oh Dr Darion this is a subject I
    know my dear friend Demarco cares a lot
    about he’s very curious about
    intermittent fasting yes here we go this
    new study DeMarco uh not to get you
    upset but it essentially ask the
    question is the benefit of intermittent
    fasting in the Restriction of time or is
    it in the calories so this is a smaller
    study done from the uh annals of
    internal medicine a large peerreview
    journal and they got a small group of
    people and they separated them into two
    groups they ate the same amount of
    calories but one group basically
    intermittently fast or restricted their
    time and the result was that there was
    no difference and the change in weight
    and it tells us that it’s more likely
    not associated to the time but more
    likely associated to what you’re eating
    in that specific time but it doesn’t
    discount the benefits of intermittent
    fasting which have still been theorized
    the theory is that it helps with your
    insulin insensitivity which can help
    reduce your risk of type two diabetes
    and so on and so forth but at the end of
    the day if you are intimately fasting
    it’s not just about the time when you
    were eating you want to make sure you’re
    eating high quality foods see I thought
    you could eat whatever you wanted to eat
    in that small window okay I think that
    that’s what everyone does and I think
    that there are benefits when you’re
    stopping eating earlier before bed for
    example but at this is a smaller study
    but we’ll have to see larger studies to
    see if it proves true but if you’re
    going to eat make sure you eat healthy
    come on man and what you’re eating
    matters exactly is you can’t just Gorge
    yourself in inside those time ranges all
    right the doctor has spoken I’m sorry
    thank you we’re back in a moment stay
    with us
    [Music]
    [Music]
    this is the first time you are sitting
    down like this to tell your story
    Britney are you ready you’ve been told
    to go through your bag and you felt felt
    the cartridge what were you thinking
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    Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
    prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
    1st on ABC Sunday night people think
    they really know you what do you think
    of the biggest misconception about you
    John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture’s going to fade the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John bonjovi I’m a rock
    and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC why do so many people start their
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    to be in the know and get a different
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    live welcome back to G3 what you need to
    know take a look at the new collectible
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    one and only Christy amaguchi she was
    the country’s first Asian-American woman
    to win an Olympic gold medal and figure
    skating Mattel has information on this
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    representation matters we say it all the
    time I was obsessed with her as a little
    girl oh so cool Dr daran’s here and you
    are answering one of our medical
    questions here it is when should I be
    concerned about taking multiple
    prescription medications and how can I
    make sure I’m taking all my meds
    correctly that’s such an important
    question being compliant or taking your
    medications on time and when you should
    is really really important so there are
    some things that I think patients have
    taught me that I think are incredible
    number one obviously things like pill
    stack or excuse me uh pill bottle Savers
    whatever you call these things I forget
    what you call these things the
    containers pill containers and so one t
    one tactic that people use is habit
    stacking so many people forget when to
    take their medications and so when you
    have it stack you attach whatever you
    want to do with something you commonly
    do so for for example everyone brushes
    their teeth in the morning hopefully so
    you want to make sure that your pills
    stay close to that so when you’re
    brushing your teeth you have your
    medications with you or when you’re
    making your coffee another thing that I
    think patients do that is really helpful
    is when they have their medication list
    it doesn’t have to be as nice as this
    but even writing it down on a piece of
    paper and then keeping it in a folder or
    keeping it in a plastic protector is
    really helpful when patients come in
    with that and Mye when you have this
    much medication to take I didn’t realize
    people take this many pills and as
    during the break we were talking an
    estimated one out of five adults above
    the age of 40 take five medications or
    more 40 is not that old it’s not that
    old at all which is which is a separate
    problem that we should discuss when
    you’re doing something called medication
    reconciliation going through your meds
    to make sure you’re not taking too many
    or having redundant meds but then making
    sure that you bring your meds with you
    in the emergency room I would love for
    my patients to bring their medications
    with them because I go through them and
    it helps me to understand what might be
    causing the symptoms and also just in
    general you should always review your
    medications at least once a year with
    your doctor wow yeah all right doc thank
    you very much we appreciate it we are
    learning of course trying to be
    compliant trying to take your
    medications on time is really really
    important that is so important folks we
    would love to hear from you so hit us up
    on Instagram with all of your medical
    questions for our medical unit at ABC
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    we’ve got what you need to know to make
    your shower Sparkle back in a day oh
    can’t
    wait we have a beautiful young woman
    killed at the very beginning of her life
    what happens when the interrogation
    helps put the wrong man in prison I
    wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
    until years later when the real killer
    steps into the box the tough question
    here is what’s the chance your D will
    match that
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my KN oh my God the
    interrogation tapes Monday on ABC get
    ready America every Friday the hottest
    Trends Styles and must have what’s the
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    to love it wherever news breaks it’s so
    important to always remember that lives
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    Prime we’ll take you there streaming
    free on ABC News live Donald Trump after
    day three wraps in his first ever
    criminal trial of a former president
    various colleges all over the country
    and Beyond colleges because it’s
    happening in other areas too you see
    what’s happening on the front having to
    do with Palestine and Israel and
    protests and hate anger Biden is sending
    an absolutely horrible message horrible
    horrible message he has no idea how to
    message he can’t speak he can’t put two
    sentences together he doesn’t know what
    to do this is not our president this is
    somebody that shouldn’t be doing what
    he’s doing because you can’t do it you
    can’t do it well we’re having protests
    all over he was talking about
    Charlottesville Charlottesville was a
    little peanut and it was nothing
    compared and the hate wasn’t the kind of
    hate that you have here this is
    tremendous hate and we have a man that
    can’t talk about it because he doesn’t
    understand it he doesn’t understand
    what’s going on with our country he
    doesn’t understand that all over the
    world were’re being laugh at as a
    country because of him and his
    administration and today we had I hear
    because I was forced to be here and I’m
    glad I was because it was a very
    interesting day in a certain way but the
    US Supreme Court had a uh Monumental
    hearing on immunity and the immunity
    having to do with uh presidential
    immunity and I think it was made clear I
    hope it was made clear that a president
    has to have Community you don’t have a
    president or at most you can say it
    would be a ceremonial president that’s
    not what the founders had in mind
    they’re not talking about ceremonial we
    want presidents that can get things done
    and bring people together so I heard the
    meeting was uh quite amazing quite
    amazing and the justices were on their
    game so uh let’s see how that all turns
    out but again I say presidential
    immunity very powerful presidential
    immunity is imperative or you
    practically won’t have a country anymore
    thank you very much thank you response
    to IND
    yesterday
    this all right day three wrapping as you
    see in former president Donald Trump’s
    criminal trial there the first ever
    criminal trial of a former president of
    the United States um you know he’s he’s
    the the man right now uh that is leading
    in swing state polls uh he’s tied with
    Biden nationally but um using this Forum
    this time to take to the mics um it’s
    really his campaign time coming out of
    the courtroom and then using this
    opportunity um to to say uh whatever he
    wants despite 11 violations of a gag
    order that judge uh Maran has uh has um
    mentioned already and still considering
    uh that’s a total side issue what at
    hand what’s at hand now is is how
    testimony went today who we heard from
    um how far does it push things uh uh
    down the road now as as only we’ve only
    heard from one uh witness David pecker
    the former publisher of of uh the
    national Inquirer part of that scheme to
    buy and bury uh stories about uh the
    former president before the 2016
    election um our whole team has been
    covering this Olivia Rubin has been
    outside the courthouse our political
    director Rick Klein is with me also our
    executive producer John santui our legal
    contributor Brian buckmire and also our
    senior reporter Katherine falers so guys
    let’s just just I’ll take it uh just
    around the room here Olivia let’s start
    with you um as day three wraps up give
    us the highlights from inside the
    court well we flipped over from the
    direct examination of David pecker and
    finally saw Donald Trump’s attorney Amil
    B start to cross-examine him and we saw
    a little bit for the first time of what
    their strategy is and what they tried to
    do with David pecker on the stand this
    afternoon was basically distance their
    relationship of sharing information
    about stories from the election because
    remember prosecutors say that this was
    an election effort to bury stories for
    the election but his attorney said hey
    this is something that they had been
    doing for decades they took it all the
    way back to the 1990s when David pcker
    alerted Donald Trump to a negative story
    about Mara Maples and they also tried to
    paint it as what Emil B said was
    standard operating procedure that this
    was something politicians and media
    Outlets did all the time that there was
    nothing wrong with it and that they went
    through other instances David pecker
    spoke about paying $20,000 to bury
    another story from another politician so
    uh Donald Trump’s attorney uh getting
    their shot today Donald Trump seemed
    quite uh enthralled with the
    cross-examination he seemed to be
    watching how his attorney was doing he
    was paying very close attention as he
    was trying to sort of pick apart parts
    of David Pecker’s story so good end to
    the day for him and also would say
    outside uh not a bad end to the day for
    him he has been calling for some
    supporters and finally outside today
    here we are hearing some Trump 2024
    chance for him so Rick kleene um
    regardless of the legal outcome here um
    just what we’ve heard in court so far
    and paying attention to the former
    president’s Highly Questionable approach
    to ethics at the end of the day does it
    matter the Trump defense to me boils
    down to a very simple sentiment which is
    this is Politics as Usual what was going
    on with his relation ship with the
    national inquire and through Michael
    Cohen and the payments to the hush money
    all of this is just something that
    happens it happens in business and to
    his saying there nothing wrong his
    lawyers are saying with with it
    happening in politics uh now the the
    problem as a as a matter of law is that
    there might be other other people to say
    something about that and the jury will
    have their say but essentially Trump
    trump is saying look what what I did was
    exactly what people have done uh for a
    long time uh and that it was just a
    continuation of the practices that I’d
    engaged in for a long time to me is one
    of the things that’s problematic about
    this as a political matter as being the
    first and maybe only case to to reach
    trial before the election uh is that uh
    it does have a lot of elements to it
    that that might seem really unseemly uh
    and deeply immoral and deeply wrong but
    maybe not all that illegal and that’s
    going to be something the jury’s going
    to have to decide but that’s the way the
    Trump defense has been has been set up
    is you know not nothing to see here but
    that what what was going on here was
    very typical activities that anyone can
    and should do whether they’re private
    citizens or even a candidate for
    president so John zanui if the content
    of the trial won’t lose in the election
    will the days of you know being
    invisible and being stuck inside that
    courtroom um help him well it’s not
    going to you know listen I think the
    jury’s still out on that part of things
    it’s going to make it difficult for him
    I think that look at the remarks he made
    outside of court today you know he
    reacted a little bit um to the testimony
    uh saying that it he believed it was was
    a good day for him to testimony then
    quickly pivoted to the Supreme Court
    then the economy then the protest
    happening at universities around the
    country right now I mean this is sort of
    becoming the only Outlet Donald Trump
    has um for the moment in time because
    he’s pretty stuck he can’t go anywhere
    else you know his schedule is not at his
    control for the moment so even you know
    days like tomorrow for example where you
    know he’d like to get out there and
    start campaigning over the weekend to
    get things early given it’s a Friday he
    can he has to be in court tomorrow for
    another full day and that will be much
    of the way his week is next week and I
    also think the other part of the thing
    that’s going to be complicated for him
    Kira as we’ve now seen is that
    prosecutors are watching even more
    closely his social media the comments
    he’s making to this camera outside of
    court that we’re showing our viewers
    right now but also to other cameras and
    we’ve seen the way prosecutors have now
    expanded adding four more violations in
    their opinion of the gag order and one
    of them with our our station wpbi in
    Philadelphia leading up to the
    Pennsylvania primary earlier this week
    so he’s really in a situation where the
    thing that’s helped him on the campaign
    Trail given talking about these cases
    could hurt him in the
    courtroom what about Katherine the fact
    that he keeps saying I’m a victim I’m a
    victim I’m a victim and playing this
    part of I’m a victim does that improve
    his chances in November sticking to that
    line Kira it’s a good question and it’s
    something that we’ve heard Donald Trump
    refer to himself as for quite some time
    going back to investigations that he was
    under by special counsels when he was
    president of the United States look I
    think it certainly resonates with his
    supporters on the one hand because he’s
    saying I’m a victim I have to be sitting
    here in court I can’t get out in
    campaign and look it’s true that he’s
    sitting in the courtroom and he can’t be
    on the campaign Trail when he’s required
    to be there in the courtroom um but if
    you take a step back and think about the
    victim nature of it there realityy of it
    is that he is facing multiple criminal
    indictments and multiple different
    jurisdictions he um has to be there he’s
    claimed that a lot of these prosecutions
    are selective and vindictive if you will
    of course special counsel and
    investigators have said the opposite so
    look I think ultimately he’s trying to
    get that message to his supporters he
    believes that his legal troubles will
    ultimately improve and help his
    political chances come November but
    again we’ll just have to see as this
    trial goes on what kind of effect it has
    um on his supporters and what he’s
    saying and also on his fundraising
    efforts all right Olivia Rick John
    Katherine thank you this wraps it up for
    Thursday long news long day of news uh
    especially when it comes to the former
    president we of course will keep
    following uh both uh what comes out of
    the Supreme Court and that courtroom
    there in New York on this hush money
    trial I’m Kira Phillips thanks for
    streaming with us more news ahead
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    live all right welcome back everyone to
    dma 3 today we are talking about
    something that we do every day showering
    let’s hope so right but there is a way
    that we could be Lev up B daily grub
    yeah and here what tell us how to step
    up our routine is the senior edit at
    large new Beauty magazine Sarah
    egenberger bring it to the spa right
    bring it to the shower so how do you
    sort of like set the mood enjoy make the
    shower more than just the thing you have
    to do right we want to take it away from
    being a chore to something we can
    actually enjoy so just simply hanging
    some eucalyptus and once this actually
    gets warm with the steam it all
    intermingles together and you have this
    like wonderful Haze of like Aroma and
    minty kind of feel it just instantly
    relaxes you and then you can take a deep
    breath in and just enjoy your sh and it
    feels like a spy at home absolutely and
    why not I mean it’s such a simple thing
    to do it looks great and it smells
    wonderful too yeah DeMarco likes a good
    smell oh I know me
    too yeah so we’re going to keep on that
    note actually about since and this is a
    shower steamer which you probably have
    heard of before this is esar check this
    out because it comes with this marble
    dish that you can actually place it into
    and so instead of just like throwing it
    on the you know shower floor it’s a
    slippery mess this actually comes in
    here they have their different scents
    and it smells oh so good like actually
    like put this in the shower you don’t
    want to have it in the direct smells
    like a fancy spaes delicious yeah we’ve
    just elevated right we’re a fancy fancy
    spot we’re at a resort now the spot the
    resort all right now we’re talking about
    taking care of our skin and not just the
    skin of our face but in the shower on
    our bodies as well because it’s really
    important we nourish our bodies and so
    instead of using a standard shower gel
    for instance you can actually use these
    oil to shower gels and so this is Kel’s
    I love this cuz it feels so luxurious as
    as well but it’s simply just a way to
    wash your skin that feels great and it’s
    actually more hydrating as well so you
    have to smell this too I’m going to take
    the cap off so it’s easier to
    smell cuz that’s awesome you just it
    doesn’t Alm oh it does smell good Alm
    yeah you’re quick like a cherry almond
    said Cherry Al okay we like where’s this
    nose coming from all this wonderful a
    little dog yeah right so this is
    actually a great way to like our skin is
    kind of getting dry right now as we’re
    changing into the seasons allergies are
    bothering you this is a great way to
    hydrate your skin and
    s it as well you just mix it with a
    little bit of water and it emulsifies to
    give you that like nice nourishing clean
    but you also want to have like smooth
    skin yeah soft smooth skin so this is
    ner this is their exfoliator so if
    you’re going to shave in the shower this
    is a great way to prep the skin because
    it makes your shave smoother don’t get
    ingrown hairs also just makes your skin
    so soft I think this is like the key to
    really having that soft smooth skin is
    just do a little bit of some exfoliation
    a couple times a week in the
    shower especially like the back we’re
    talking about that and the art
    it just feels amazing your feels so good
    afterwards this speaking of masking a
    great time to do a face mask in the
    shower because now your pores are
    opening up everything is soft and a
    twofer it’s a twofer yeah and you’re
    going to put this on when you get in the
    shower it’s going to help you really
    balance your skin this is shny Darden
    she’s an aesthetician in California and
    this is what all of her clients are
    using because it just helps to purify
    your skin but also balance it so it’s
    not too drying either this is my
    in-house dermatologist right here yes
    right here is a to
    use even more certified that very
    certifying yeah okay so now after the
    shower we have to repent from all of
    that you know exfoliation and now we’re
    going to start to treat ourselves so
    this is what we have right here is when
    we have um our deep conditioner for our
    hair and so we really want to deep
    condition our hair um because that’s
    going to help to add that balance
    especially with all the heat tools we
    use everything else um that has a great
    scent too you’ll like this too um it’s a
    really nice way to treat your hair I do
    this actually once a week with my
    daughters like we do in the sink we do
    an exfoliation of their hair and then
    deep conditioner so it’s a great way to
    really treat your hair when it’s so
    damaged I came and smell these earlier
    so I already know they this line is like
    known for their scents like of all
    things they have this tremendous amount
    of scents if you like more that warm
    woolly kind of scent like a really fresh
    scent so different variations they have
    a full line so you can do everything
    from like the shower gels to the lotion
    so you can mix and match and even
    deodorants but this is a great way to
    hydrate and also add like a little scent
    to your body too which is a really
    luxurious way oh yeah oh yeah so good so
    good I like this one and then when you
    get out of the shower you got to put
    something yes cuz now like the joke is
    you’re exhausted right but you should
    you could just like showering so this is
    actually the skin shower this is so soft
    so smooth it feels really nice it’s
    lightweight it has this um easy to use
    um wraparound and there’s pockets in
    here too which I love um for robe as
    well so all easy to use and feels great
    so then you can end your shower on a
    wonderful note right and on a light note
    too you don’t want to go to yes you’re a
    little hot you’re you’re probably a
    little tired after doing all this stuff
    to just relax afterwards all right Sarah
    egenberger again thank you very much we
    appreciate it always good to to see you
    know that up next when we come back the
    hit ABC show in its 20th season we were
    of course talking about gry’s anatomy
    and Dr Teddy Altman star Kim Raver joins
    us here in just a
    [Applause]
    bit Sunday night people think they
    really know you what do you think of the
    biggest misconception about
    you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
    Applause you got to do it over and over
    again because you know the pretty
    picture is going to bab the all new
    event special I’m going start singing by
    the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
    Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
    roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
    bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
    ABC get ready America every Friday the
    hottest Trends Styles and must have
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    start their day here from ABC News this
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    stories start here now that’s a part of
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    make it your daily first listen wherever
    you get your podcast we have a beautiful
    young woman killed at the very beginning
    of her life what happens when the
    interrogation helps put the wrong man in
    prison I wasn’t nowhere around praise to
    God until years later when the the real
    killer steps into the box the tough
    question here is what’s the chance your
    D will match that on
    scene we have your DNA at the scene what
    did you use my ni oh my God the
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    can you please put your arms up over
    your head great thank you any weight
    loss yes I just traded in my pants for a
    smaller size okay Mr himz take a deep
    breath
    hold okay you can breathe normally okay
    TB usually appears as a small cavitary
    leion is that a
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    right we need to get him up to CT as
    soon as possible this is definitely not
    TV oh welcome back everyone get this yes
    ABC’s hit drama Grace’s Anatomy is now
    in its 20th season which is hard to
    believe for some people and that clip
    was a look at what helps to make the
    series so great yeah and our next guest
    is a familiar face at Grace slone
    Memorial hospital and she is here to
    tell us more about what’s unfolding this
    season please help us welcome to the
    studio Dr Teddy Alman also known as Kim
    Raver to see you Doctor oh thank you for
    having me yes the real Doctor here
    listen we we both get the credit so I
    feel like we both taught a lot of people
    about if only I could do what you do
    that’s the problem is everyone is like
    so and I’m like I don’t know’s the
    script you speak the lingo I do speak
    the lingo excellently thank you there’s
    moments where you’re like wait what was
    that word again and what does it mean
    and how do I kind of get through it we
    sort of have now like code amongst us
    like if we don’t know what the word is I
    think I think Kevin once had a word like
    satinsky and we were like doing a
    surgery and I was like
    sit pass the satinsky and then there’s
    this incredible uh woman bokei who um
    who actually she does it for real and so
    she’ll come in and if I don’t know what
    the next instrument is in the O I’ll
    just put my hand out and she like slaps
    the right instrument in my hand and I’m
    like thank you bokei you’re making me
    look very good only hospitals were that
    I know real life right I mean the 20
    Seasons it’s so crazy to think about
    the the thing that’s the theme through
    all of it is the drama there’s so much
    drama we’re about to start part two of
    this most recent season what can people
    expect I think you know what’s so
    amazing about Grey’s Anatomy and how
    it’s gone throughout all of these
    seasons is they’re just the writers are
    so amazing at storytelling and weaving
    in a combination of the drama and the
    humor and I love that we’ve got the new
    interns this year CU it’s very
    reminiscent of you know the beginning
    beginning of you know Season 1 2 and
    three and uh there’s some fantastic
    things between Bailey and the interns
    where she sort of taking them under
    their wing again and it’s funny because
    there was that real uh amazing thing in
    the beginning and so Bailey is trying to
    take care of him and they’re kind of
    like well no we don’t want a wellness
    kit and so there’s like really fun thing
    between the interns and Bailey and with
    the Min story lines what is it that you
    think keeps people coming back what is
    it that resonates with the audience you
    know I think Shandra rymes created this
    show where you get to really see the
    lives of these characters where they
    have their hero moments but they have
    their really difficult fallible moments
    where they make mistakes and I think
    that that’s a very human thing and I
    think it’s a it’s really wonderful to be
    able to tune in and say wow it’s really
    aspiring that I can kind of want to be
    that person but yet oh wow they just
    made a terrible mistake and relatable
    and it’s relatable and you watch them
    kind of step into life and it helps you
    kind of go through your daily life and I
    think that fans we have incredible fans
    and I think they really stick with the
    characters as they’re going through
    their life Journey one of the favorite
    things I do is watching fan reactions to
    those Cliffhangers uh from one doctor to
    another what is your favorite part about
    being a TV doctor I’m always so
    disappointed when I’m like no I’m not a
    a real doctor it’s I am just so blown
    away by the knowledge that you all have
    um Teddy is just s she’s so good at what
    she does I mean literally there’s a
    scene where Teddy is like you know I
    don’t I can’t give away that moment but
    like she’ll be cutting open doing open
    heart surgery and taking a heart out and
    repairing it and that is just such an
    incredible gift that you all go out in
    the world and do and so when I realize
    you know I can’t even take a state out
    of my son’s finger I’m like oh my God
    you staple I call 911 they’re like just
    pull it out oh right just pull it out so
    I’m I’m always so impressed with and
    especially now I mean that what the the
    medical world has been doing and um I’m
    I’m I’m really just so grateful and
    Incredibly impressed by what a treat for
    us really good it’s amazing to have you
    on TV
    representing Kim rer thanks so much for
    being with us today and you can catch
    graay Anatomy it returns Thursday May
    2nd on ABC and it’ll stream the next day
    on Hulu nice thank you so much thank you
    so much that’s what you need to know for
    today I’m even Pilgrim I’m DeMarco
    Morgan and I’m Dr Daran for all of us
    here at ABC including Kim right here
    have a wonderful day and we will see you
    tomorrow I need you all night come on
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    I’m Kenny WTH here in Los Angeles and
    right now on ABC News live Donald Trump
    back in court his legal troubles keeping
    him off the campaign Trail a former
    tabloid publisher testifying for a third
    day in Trump’s criminal hush money trial
    the revealing new testimony there plus
    the arguments at the Supreme Court over
    Trump’s claims of presidential immunity
    in a separate case also campus
    protesters rallying at more universities
    today in response to the Israel Hamas
    War we have the latest on the
    demonstrations and how police are
    responding also the stunning ruling
    today why New York’s highest court
    overturned one of Harvey Weinstein’s
    convictions and what comes next in that
    case but we begin here with Donald
    Trump’s legal troubles intensifying on
    multiple fronts as he spends more time
    in court than he does on the campaign
    Trail the former president backed before
    a judge today in New York his criminal
    hush money trial he blasted the case
    again this after proceedings wrapped
    just a short time ago this is a trial
    that should have never happened this is
    a case that should have never been filed
    and it was really an
    incredible an incredible uh day open
    your eyes then we can’t let this
    continue to happen to our
    country well Trump sitting at the
    defense table as former National
    Inquirer publisher David pecker
    testified for a third day pecker
    describing how in the days before the
    2016 election he says he helped arrange
    a deal to keep Playboy model Karen
    McDougall quiet about an alleged Affair
    that she says she had with Trump former
    president has denied her claims and
    today in Washington the Supreme Court
    started hearing arguments over his
    claims of presidential immunity in the
    special council’s election case at least
    some of the justices appearing skeptical
    of Trump’s claim that President should
    have absolute immunity from prosecution
    for official acts while in
    office let’s say this president who
    ordered the military to stage aoup he’s
    no longer president he wasn’t impeached
    he couldn’t be impeached um but but he
    ordered the military to stage aoup and
    you’re saying that’s an official act uh
    I think it would depend on immune I
    think it would depend on the
    circumstances whether it was an official
    act if it were an official act again he
    would have to be imp what does that mean
    depend on the
    circumstances all right we’ll have a lot
    more on that historic Supreme Court case
    here the arguments today as well and the
    Justice’s reactions we’ll talk about
    that just ahead of course this also
    comes As Trump appears to be an
    unindicted co-conspirator in an alleged
    fake elector scheme in Arizona where
    Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows and Boris
    Epstein are among several former and
    current AIDS now facing charges so for
    more on the hush money trial I want to
    bring in our investigative reporter
    Olivia Rubin who’s live outside Court in
    lower Manhattan along with criminal
    defense attorney and former Federal
    prosecutor Tim Jansen thank you both for
    being here with us Olivia let’s start
    here with you look lots of timeline
    details today from Pecker’s test
    testimony honing in on efforts to
    allegedly conceal a paper trail but
    Olivia we also heard some major Trump
    Administration names mentioned in that
    testimony as well can you bring us up to
    speed
    here we did Kana because think about it
    David pcker walked the jury through
    those three instances where he bought up
    the negative stories and then he started
    telling about the efforts where Trump
    was essentially keeping an eye on
    keeping them quiet and as my colleague
    Luke bugman who I was in the Overflow
    room with later in the day said it’s so
    beautifully Trump appeared obsessed with
    making sure those stories did not see
    the light of day pecker talked about two
    uh meetings at Trump Tower when Trump
    was the vice president elect he said
    that his then Communications person aan
    Spicer was there he said that a bunch of
    names uh were present at that meeting
    then he said even when Trump became
    president he went to the Oval Office and
    talked with Trump he received multiple
    phone calls from Trump he received phone
    calls from those who worked for Trump
    think about Hope Hicks think about Sarah
    Huckabee Sanders all of them talking
    about how the stories were going to stay
    quiet in one instance one woman had
    given a press interview Trump was very
    very angry about that pcker recalled so
    sort of lifting that Veil on this post
    effort once the stories had been bought
    and how to make sure that they remain
    shielded all right Olivia and Tim what
    do you make here of pecker testifying
    that he had at least two postelection
    meetings with Trump and Cohen and met
    with Trump a major Administration
    officials in 2018
    well I I I don’t think it’s that big a
    deal uh considering the business he was
    in I think the defense has started their
    cross-examination showing that he’s been
    doing this for Trump for 30 years um as
    a defense lawyer if I’m sitting there
    and he’s testified for three days and
    six hours and I haven’t heard a crime
    yet I’m feeling pretty good um on the
    contrary um it’s it’s it’s a hush money
    and it’s done all the time uh pecker
    gave some testimony very favorable to
    president Trump uh pcker talked about he
    was dealing with Cohen only talking with
    Cohen about the money so how do we know
    if and he said Trump didn’t even know
    about the payments the the state has not
    really pushed the ball they haven’t
    moved the ball uh the question I have is
    is like where’s the meat of this case
    and why are they waiting for past three
    days to show what crime was
    committed and I’d love for Olivia to
    expand on that a little a little bit
    because Olivia to his point there we did
    see the defense strategy sort of Take
    Shape for the first time today and to
    his point they try to talk about this
    you know this alleged catch and kill
    scheme here essentially as business as
    usual that’s exactly what it was
    standard operating procedure as Trump’s
    attorney Amil boovie said to the jury
    and he walked David pecker through the
    first time that he ever alerted Donald
    Trump to one of the negative stories
    that he was hearing it was in the 1990s
    about uh Mara Maples the story
    ultimately came out but he had tried to
    prevent it from doing so and what
    defense attorneys were trying to do
    there was say this had nothing to do
    with the election this is what Donald
    Trump and David pcker did for years they
    alerted each other of stories they had a
    mutually beneficial relationship and
    they worked together and what’s more Kaa
    is they tried to say as I just said it
    was standard procedure this is something
    that politicians they said did uh you
    know with tabloids when they’re trying
    to win the election when they’re trying
    to control their image and David pecker
    testified that he did it for others as
    well he spoke about a $20,000 story he
    killed for Rah Emanuel so they’re trying
    to make it seem like this was not
    election interference it had nothing to
    do with his presidency but really that’s
    just the way that it worked right he
    talked about how Stormy Daniels was out
    there shopping her story Olivia and Tim
    thank you so much for being here with us
    today in your analysis we want to go
    back now to the historic supreme court
    hearing today the justice is weighing
    arguments in Donald Trump’s presidential
    immunity case Trump’s lawyers argue that
    a former president has immunity from
    prosecution when it comes to quote
    official acts during tenure in office
    but some of the justices seemed
    skeptical of that argument I want you to
    listen to this real
    quickly this is what you’re asking us to
    say which is that a president is
    entitled not to make a
    mistake but
    more than that a pre president is
    entitled for total personal gain to use
    the trappings of his office if a
    president can be charged put on trial
    and imprisoned for his most
    controversial decisions as soon as he
    leaves office that looming threat will
    distort the president’s decision-making
    precisely when bold and fearless action
    is most
    needed all right the Supreme Court’s
    decision will determine whether special
    counsel Jack Smith can try the former
    president for his alleged efforts to
    interfere with the 2020 election so I
    want to bring in our ABC News senior
    Washington reporter Deon DWI ABC News
    senior reporter kathern folders and ABC
    News legal contributor and former FBI
    agent Asha Rapa so thank you all for
    being here with us and Devon let’s start
    here with you uh listening to the
    questions that the justices act can be
    uh asked can be really telling in this
    case and as we’ve mentioned it seemed
    like there was some skepticism over
    Trump’s claim here of absolute immunity
    uh Amy Cony Barrett in particular trying
    to parse out those acts in this
    indictment the ones considered private
    versus those considered official I was
    in that Court chamber for nearly three
    hours today Kaa and across the bench
    there was skepticism of Donald Trump’s
    claim of absolute immunity from
    prosecution uh so in that sense it was
    not a good day for him but you’re right
    uh in the other sense the court was also
    at least several of the conservative
    justices skeptical of a green light for
    a trial to move ahead right away for his
    conduct around the 2020 election
    what that means is the court needs to
    come up with some kind of a rule as you
    alluded to there Justice Barrett one of
    the justices that started to get into
    the Weeds on that rule about what sorts
    of conduct what types of conduct are
    protected from prosecution and how do
    you decide that uh there was no
    consensus today on the bench in that
    regard that means these justices will
    take time to write their opinion it also
    likely means Kaa that it will sake some
    time for a lower court to parse through
    this indictment against Donald Trump and
    figure out which of those charges can go
    forward which at the end of the day as
    you said there is a good good thing for
    Donald Trump it’s not likely and less
    likely after today’s arguments that a a
    federal prosecution uh for his his
    activities in 2020 will go forward
    before the election much l be decided
    before the 20 uh 2024 election uh but
    we’ll have to see what the justices say
    when they hand down their decision at
    the end of
    June absolutely so Katherine that takes
    us right here to you I mean what are the
    implications here if we don’t have a
    decision before November I mean really
    or if we do look I think we could have a
    decision at least before November but
    it’s as Devon laid out it seems unlikely
    that it’s going to be yes Trump has
    absolute presidential immunity or no he
    doesn’t it’s not going to be that simple
    so the ruling will likely be more
    nuanced from the court then what happens
    it obviously depends what the Supreme
    Court says but even if it goes back down
    to the lower courts to decide for
    example what are private acts what are
    public acts still that is going to have
    to be litigated in the courts and that
    could take some time right down there in
    the lower courts to perhaps write
    something that’s different that has a
    little bit more clarity uh so I now want
    to bring in Asha Rapa here as more so
    Asha to you could the Supreme Court’s
    decision impacts Trump’s other federal
    case would it have any bearing on the
    classified documents
    case yes I mean look the court
    potentially has a very narrow path if
    they want to take it they can just say
    we’re not going to rule on this big
    constitutional issue we just know that
    the facts that we see right now aren’t
    official acts but it doesn’t like
    they’re going in that way and if they do
    fashion a broader rule of some kind
    where you have to delineate what’s an
    official ACT versus a non-official act
    it can have implications for example in
    the maralago case because he took those
    documents before noon on January 20th
    2021 when which arguably could have been
    an official act uh same thing with
    Georgia where he’s being he’s indicted
    for some of these same things so I it
    will have Ripple effects on these other
    cases and again for future presidents as
    well all right that’s really interesting
    Insight uh Devin Katherine and ashar
    thanks to all of you of course for more
    on this I want to bring in our ABC News
    political director Rick Klein and ABC
    News contributor and presidential
    historian Mark upov gentlemen thank you
    for being here and Mark can you break
    down I mean the historic nature of this
    case what are the ramifications here
    that go well beyond Trump I mean how
    will this affect presidents going
    forward in this country K it will
    certainly expand the power of the
    presidency already the most powerful job
    on on Earth and certainly in our country
    uh but there are other ramifications too
    I mean John uh John Adams one of our
    founding fathers and our second
    president said that we are a nation of
    laws and not men and this makes one man
    pretty powerful uh all the more powerful
    in in um uh in the offing so there is a
    major major precedent here you could see
    the seriousness of this case in the uh
    uh when when uh the justices were
    questioning uh the the lawyers in this
    case it has very very far-reaching
    consequences and and will be enormously
    consequential in the
    future and to our again to our entire
    country and to president is moving
    forward but Rick let’s talk about the
    potential consequences here for Trump
    himself right let’s talk about this poll
    it’s an ABC News ipsos poll it’s from
    late last year admittedly but 52% of
    respondents think that Trump should be
    charged with a crime in this case 32%
    said they should have not but Rick 46%
    say that they think the charges are
    politically motivated here so how does
    that translate over to a looming general
    election is a fascinating Insight
    because there’s a lot of overlap there
    right almost by definition you’ve got
    some people who think it’s politically
    motivated you also think people who
    think that it’s that’s serious enough to
    to Warrant charging and whether it’s
    this case or the the hush money case or
    the classified documents case politics
    undeniably a big part of it and look one
    of the one of the upshots out of today’s
    hearing is is as we’ve it is this is now
    less likely that he is going to face
    trial at any point in the conceivable
    future before the election this year and
    if he is elected again these charges
    almost certainly go away he instructs
    his justice department to toss them out
    or he pardons himself so whether the
    Supreme Court knows it or not they are
    playing into his legal strategy it’s not
    just about whether he wins or loses this
    case it’s not about whether the public
    thinks he’s guilty or not guilty or
    should be charged or not charged he has
    a way of winning just by playing out the
    clock and to my mind the Supreme Court
    has already done a huge favor to Donald
    Trump by even taking up this case by
    signaling the skepticism this is going
    to last a
    while as we have heard time and time
    again the efforts to delay delay delay
    Rick Klein Mark upd Grove are thanks to
    both of you you of course can catch uh
    more of this presentation today of
    today’s Supreme Court oral arguments on
    whether former president Trump can be
    criminally prosecuted in the special
    council’s election interference case
    that is at midnight Eastern Time right
    here on ABC News live all right coming
    up next here camp protesters rallying at
    more universities today in response to
    the Israel Hamas War we have the latest
    on those demonstrations Straight
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    we have a beautiful young woman killed
    at the very beginning of her life what
    happens when the interrogation helps put
    the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
    around proba to God until years later
    when the real killer steps into the box
    the tough question here is what’s the
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    ABC and welcome back campus protesters
    rallying at more universities today this
    is in response to the Israel Hamas War
    Pro Palestinian demonstrators locking
    arms at Northeastern University in
    Boston you can see them there forming a
    human chain around an encampment uh this
    is as police body camera video also
    shows authorities in Boston confronting
    a different group of protesters at
    Emerson College this happened overnight
    take a look we don’t want to escalate to
    do anything so again I’ve done a lot of
    these V reasonable we don’t want to
    arrest anybody trust me we all want to
    go home just like we want you to go home
    tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
    any questions um speak to anyone who
    wants to speak to me but just go we we
    got to open up free free Palestine free
    free all right police are saying that
    they arrested more than a hundred
    protesters there at Emerson uh in the
    meantime in Atlanta today more than a
    dozen people detained at Emer University
    after clashes between police and
    protesters there and then here in Los
    Angeles demonstrators setting up tens at
    UCLA a day after more than 90 people
    were arrested during protests across
    town at USC so joining me right now is
    Stephanie Ramos who’s been tracking the
    protest at Columbia University all week
    uh there in New York and zorine Shaw
    here in Los Angeles monitoring the
    protest on the west coast forest uh
    Stephanie let’s start here with you
    protest at Columbia essentially sparking
    a lot of these demonstrations that we’re
    seeing across the country so what is the
    latest there today and any progress on
    these talks between school the school
    administrators and the
    demonstrators so student demonstrators
    that we we have spoken with say that
    they are in constant communication with
    University officials here at Columbia
    University the student demonstrators I
    want to remind everyone that they are
    that have been here for eight days now
    set up on the west lawn they are
    sleeping in those tents studying in
    those tents eating doing everything
    there many of them refusing to leave
    until their demands are met and they’ve
    also shared with me that they’re
    extremely proud to have influenced other
    Grassroots this grassroot movement at
    universi across the country uh now back
    to the negotiations we did speak with
    one of the student negotiators who is in
    those meetings with University officials
    here’s what he had to say about where
    they stand our our first demand of
    course is the divestment from the
    Israeli occupation and from the
    companies that are benefiting from the
    genocide of the people in Gaza the
    second demand is for the University to
    disclose their Investments and financial
    transparency the third one is the
    amnesty for all these students who were
    unjustly uh suspended and arrested by
    NYPD for uh for peacefully uh peacefully
    uh protesting on their
    campus the deadline for this group to
    disperse is supposedly tomorrow but the
    student demonstrators and the
    negotiators that we’ve spoken to say
    they’re really unclear on if the if the
    university will act on uh bringing the
    NYPD or other campus officials to
    physically remove them so it’s kind of a
    a wait and see situation right now Kaa
    all right Steph thank you so much and
    zorine to you we have some news out of
    USC here today canceling its main
    graduation ceremony in response to the
    protest there uh what are the
    administrator
    saying Kaa this is a really big deal so
    they released a statement saying that
    the ceremony with 65,000 people the main
    stage is going to actually be canceled
    the smaller schools will go on to hold
    their ceremonies but the reason why this
    is so big is because USC has one of the
    first graduations out of all the
    universities so the question now is if
    others will follow suit now now you
    mentioned UCLA as well those protests
    started this morning the university says
    they’re actively monitoring them and
    they say they call them free expression
    uh um they say they uh examples of free
    expression so a very different approach
    than what USC is taking but one thing I
    want to point out I think it’s so great
    that Stephany had that bite from that
    student the students are also saying
    there’s so much attention on what these
    schools are doing and not enough
    attention on what they say is happening
    in the Middle East look they’re pointing
    out there’s 34,000 people dead in Gaza
    19,000 children orphaned 14,000 children
    dead over a million people facing famine
    they say that is where they want their
    attention to be where they want
    everyone’s attention to be in this
    moment Kaa all right zorine and
    Stephanie our thanks to both of you for
    your coverage we appreciate that coming
    up next here a bombshell ruling today in
    New York’s highest court overturning the
    rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
    Weinstein that’s next
    first thing in the morning there’s a lot
    going on got another Avalanche warning
    that’s up to catch you up with what
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    to me the Moose started chasing a dog
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    [Music]
    well now to disgrace producer Harvey
    Weinstein one of the most powerful movie
    Moguls in Hollywood and this morning New
    York’s highest court overturning his
    2020 conviction on felony sex crime
    charges and ordering a retrial now the
    New York Court of Appeals finding that
    the judge who presided over that
    original trial made a critical error
    when he allowed the jury to hear
    testimony from women who alleged that
    Weinstein sexually assaulted them even
    though those claims were not among those
    charges that were filed against him in
    that trial so I want to bring in our ABC
    News legal contributor and partner at
    the Cochran Law Firm shaa Lloyd for more
    on this so uh Shauna what is the basis
    here of overturning this I mean does
    this all Center on these women that
    testified no Kaa this is really not
    about guilter innocence this is about a
    procedural error so what the higher
    court is saying is that the lower court
    aired because they allowed other
    person’s women to testify about
    uncharged bad acts this is normally not
    allowed when all it’s entered for is the
    purpose of showing that he has a
    propensity of doing those kinds of Acts
    it can only be entered for motive to
    show that it wasn’t a mistake and other
    legal purposes so the higher Court felt
    that this was a violation of his
    constitutional right they also found
    that by determining what the prosecution
    could ask him about even though that’s
    not his other prior bad acts the fight
    in the bar and other things that he did
    that was also something that affected
    his determination as to whether or not
    he should testify so this is all about
    constitutional
    rights okay so Shauna now in New York
    could this case then be retried and if
    it is Will these women come back to
    testify how does that all play out
    considering the fact that he of course
    has been convicted on other charges here
    in Los
    Angeles absolutely Kana prosecution well
    the prosecutor’s office will have to
    make a determination if they’re going to
    retry if they do retry the witnesses and
    all of the women that step forward to
    testify would be asked to testify
    against him
    again that’s that’s a tough ask for a
    lot of those people shaa Lloyd thank you
    so much for being here with us we
    appreciate you we have a lot more news
    ahead here on ABC News live in today’s
    big story Donald Trump’s legal cases
    playing out in two separate courtrooms
    today the dramatic new testimony and his
    hush money trial in New York also how
    Justice is at the Supreme Court
    responded to arguments over his claims
    of presidential immunity also in our
    Spotlight the stunning ruling in favor
    of disgrace movie producer Harvey
    Weinstein our panel will weigh in on the
    overturning of his rape conviction that
    we just spoke with Shauna about that’s
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    [Music]
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    Donald Trump’s legal troubles keeping
    him from the campaign Trail and igniting
    high stakes debate over the powers of
    the presidency I’m Kaa Whitworth here in
    Los Angeles and that is our big story
    today the former president back in court
    as well in his criminal hush money trial
    the dramatic new testimony from a former
    tabloid publisher also how justices at
    the Supreme Court reacted to arguments
    over Trump’s immunity claims in a
    separate case Plus in our Spotlight
    we’ll talk about the stunning ruling in
    favor of disgrace movie producer harrey
    Weinstein our panel will weigh in on the
    overturning of his rape conviction in
    New
    [Music]
    York well we begin here with our big
    story we’ll be speaking with Jonathan
    Carl here in one moment talking about
    Donald Trump’s legal troubles
    intensifying on multiple fronts as he
    spends more time in court than he does
    on the campaign Trail and so John look
    we have a lot to talk about today so
    let’s go ahead and start with the
    Supreme Court proceedings right it was
    almost like you know the the one step
    forward two steps back that you hear and
    when you heard Donald Trump walk out of
    the New York courtroom in his criminal
    hush money trial he called the Supreme
    Court case Monumental he said the
    justices were on their game but John it
    appears in those arguments that across
    the board everyone was a bit skeptical
    here of the full presidential immunity
    uh that Trump wants do you think he’s
    going to find that surprising well you
    know Trump’s lawyers made a pretty
    extreme case about presidential immunity
    what they call absolute immunity they
    don’t mean absolutely everything but
    anything that could be remotely tied to
    his official acts as president they
    argued a president must be immune from
    Criminal prosecution uh Trump himself by
    the way goes further on the campaign
    Trail he makes it sound like a president
    can’t be prosecuted for anything
    regardless of whether or not it’s
    official but K there’s one interesting
    thing that I think was not uh uh noted
    today that it should have been and that
    is that Trump’s own Council when he was
    impeached for January 6th argued that
    there was no need for the Congress to
    then to to to convict a former president
    in a impeachment trial because he could
    be charged in a criminal trial and his
    lawyers in that case on the senate floor
    you remember that Senate trial said um
    we have an investigative process in this
    country to which no office no former
    office holder is immune uh so his own
    lawyers not that long ago had argued the
    exact opposite of what they were arguing
    today oh that’s really interesting John
    and also since you bring that up uh my
    producer Le set today honed in as well
    on the argument here of if a president
    could actually pardon himself right and
    that was brought up today in these in
    these arguments and Trump’s lawyer
    essentially saying oh I hadn’t thought
    of that just yet yeah and and it was
    interesting I I I I think it was Justice
    was one of the conservative justices
    said we haven’t had to uh rule on
    whether or not a self- paron is
    constitutional thankfully so they don’t
    want to rule on that uh but you know
    essentially it it’s clear uh Trump sees
    all of these Powers presidential powers
    in their in their absolutely widest
    possible
    interpretation and that is is so
    important in terms this decision is so
    important in terms of what the future of
    the presidency means in this country uh
    sounds though also John like this might
    get kicked down right to a lower court
    especially considering what Amy Cony
    Barrett was looking at in particular
    about you know the things that he can do
    officially and the things that he can do
    privately and does the special counsel
    need to essentially rewrite that and
    make it more clear we don’t know what
    the Supreme Court will rule or how long
    they will take to issue the ruling but
    it sure sounded like what they were
    saying is there is some degree of of
    presidential immunity for official acts
    and the question is defining what those
    official official acts are so what you
    could see happen what you’re alluding to
    is the Supreme Court basically saying
    this has to go back down to the lower
    courts to deal with that issue before
    any criminal trial of Donald Trump can
    go forward uh uh on this January 6 case
    and if that happens can it’s very
    important to say that if the Supreme
    Court a either takes a long time to
    issue this ruling or B uh doesn’t issue
    a ruling that allows the the the
    criminal case to go forward I I see
    absolutely no way that you could see a
    January 6th election interference
    federal case go to trial before the
    election and given that Trump has made
    it clear that he would fire the special
    counsel that he would throw this case at
    instruct his justice department to throw
    it out if that happens it’s quite
    possible uh that we never see Donald
    Trump held to account criminally uh for
    what happened on January
    6th and in his terms of delay delay
    delay that would be considered a major
    win here uh in those tactics I mean it
    is it is 100% a win uh even if he
    ultimately loses this idea of full
    absolute imunity if he delays that is a
    win yeah and John I also want to get
    your thoughts here on the fact that you
    know these statements happened today uh
    these arguments happened in front of the
    Supreme Court we remember right that
    Donald Trump had asked the judge in New
    York to be there he wanted to be there
    today when the justices heard these
    arguments he couldn’t be there uh how do
    you think he was reacting to all of that
    today as he sat in a New York courtroom
    I think it’s maddeningly frustrating to
    him it’s why he went out early this
    morning uh to try to do something of a
    campaign stop seeing some some workers
    in New York I I I think the whole notion
    that he is really not free to leave that
    trial it’s dawned on him the
    implications of being a criminal
    defendant uh another thing I think that
    is very important here Kan about this
    case you had two kind of Visions
    presented one Donald Trump’s Vision that
    if a president is not immune that uh he
    can’t do anything he or she can’t do
    anything uh because they’ll be fear
    fearful of prosecution uh that’s One
    Vision uh the other Vision was katangi
    brown Jackson Justice Jackson made the
    the point that if a president is
    determined to have this broad absolute
    immunity uh then it in her mind it turns
    the Oval Office potentially into the
    center of criminal activity in the
    United States because a president could
    do what would know going in that the
    president could do whatever here she
    wanted legal or not and not fear uh
    criminal
    consequences right and then what power
    do the people have to hold their elected
    officials accountable is is the big
    question right uh John Carl thank you so
    much for being with us here today we
    always appreciate your analysis and your
    time with us here on ABC News live I
    want to bring our story now to our big
    panel so joining us today here is our
    ABC News contrib and Series XM radio
    host Mike Muse ABC News contributor and
    Democratic strategist Christina sinsun
    Ramirez editor of the National Review
    romes panu and ABC News legal
    contributor and law professor Kim wayy
    so thank you all for being here with us
    on a really busy day uh so Kim Let’s
    Start here with you uh again we keep
    hearing about this topic from the court
    today about what constitutes this
    official ACT versus a private act are
    you able to assess that for us on a
    legal
    basis no because it doesn’t exist in
    this moment there is that distin for
    civil liability for presidents right
    remember Bill Clinton was was had to sit
    through depositions and things for a a
    harassment sex harassment case that
    preceded his presidency because that was
    private but the court here seems poised
    to manufacture this for criminal
    activity and it’s really hard to see how
    it’s going to draw that line in part
    because the justices didn’t seem
    interested in probing Criminal Intent so
    essentially uh one of the justices asked
    okay so you could could you assassinate
    a political rival because you just don’t
    like them and you want to secure your
    power and Donald Trump’s lawyer had a
    hard time answering that the no he
    basically said that’s possible that’s
    the kind of thing that might be
    immune and rsh I would just love to get
    your analysis of here of how the Supreme
    Court handled this today in listening to
    this I mean we haven’t heard uh their
    entire reactions yet and there is a lot
    of thought here that they might kick
    this back down to a lower
    court well I think it is a challenge to
    the justices because
    uh it’s a big issue that they are trying
    to figure out that has implications
    Beyond this case uh and I think that’s
    the thing that’s really um uh slowing
    them down because I don’t think that
    there’s a lot of takers for this
    extremely
    implausible claim that Trump and his
    lawyers are making um certainly the one
    that Trump is making on the stump that
    he needs an absolute immunity that isn’t
    even spelled out in the Constitution um
    but uh if it was just a question of
    swatting that down I think it would be a
    much faster and easier
    process and but fast is not what the
    former president wants in this case
    right and Christina to you here what do
    you make of uh what do you think they
    might make here of Justice Leo’s
    sympathetic views if you will towards
    positions Advanced by Trump’s team uh in
    particular Alo asking if Trump’s lawyer
    was taking the position that if a
    president quote makes a mistake that
    he’s subject to criminal laws like
    anybody
    else you know I think there was concern
    for folks watching and listening the
    Supreme Court today especially from the
    Supreme Court Justices that were
    nominated by Donald Trump um or have are
    more conservative there was definitely
    sympathy for some of the positions of
    the Trump Administration even um though
    they you could see that there were
    struggling with some of the far extreme
    views of immunity and I think ultimately
    people watching are concerned with the
    legitimacy of the Supreme Court it was
    also interesting that you did not see
    Justice Thomas recuse himself from this
    case given that his wife jinny Thomas uh
    was uh um at um these protests was
    texting messages um to the highest
    levels of his staff about this case and
    so I think that ultimately this is also
    a question of the Supreme Court
    Justice’s legitimacy um as a court
    moving
    forward and Mike I’d love to get your
    thoughts here on also uh we heard John
    Carl mention mention this as well of
    Justice katangi Brown Jackson warning
    that giving president’s absolute
    immunity turn the White House into a
    quote the seat of criminal activity in
    this country I love that conversation
    that you had with John Carl because
    Canada that was the big takeaway for me
    one just let’s can we recognize historic
    nature of this moment uh that these
    justices will be making a decision that
    could impact the Oval Office for decades
    to come um but really she was getting to
    this idea about the chilling effect and
    when she was asking her question she was
    really talking about if you remove the
    possibility of of criminal
    investigations or indictments that will
    remove the chilling effect of the Oval
    Office I thought that was a very
    powerful line of questioning but then
    Kane I thought was really powerful when
    they really got to the sentiment of why
    the Constitution was created so that
    United States didn’t have a monarchy
    which is what they were fighting against
    which is why the Constitution was
    created and so I thought that was good
    to bring that historical context into
    perspective of why the Constitution was
    created and why the idea of liity should
    or should not exist because America does
    not want to fall back into a monarchy
    where a person has complete immunity uh
    no matter what absolutely all right Mike
    Christina remesh and Kim thank you so
    much for being with us today I’m coming
    up next here New York’s highest court
    overturning movie Mogul Harvey
    Weinstein’s conviction on sex crimes
    what is next for the Oscar winning
    producer who became a poster child for
    the me too movement our panel weighs in
    after the break
    [Music]
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    how does billionaire sound sounds good
    to me the Moose started chasing a dog
    first thing in the morning America this
    morning America’s number one early
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    this is not about parents who just let
    their kid watch violent movies play
    violent video games this is about
    parents who neglected their son ignored
    his cries for help then bought him a gun
    the first parents in America to be
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    [Music]
    where Harvey wearing his hotel robe
    immediately began asking if he could
    give me aass massage and this progressed
    into him insisting that I watch him take
    a shower and other acts of sexual
    harassment and aggression I was lucky I
    got out of that forel
    [Music]
    nominated actress Ashley Jud who accused
    Harvey Weinstein of sexually harassing
    her several other women also accused the
    disgraced Hollywood producer of sexual
    assault and rape and in today’s
    Spotlight this morning New York’s
    highest court overturning Weinstein’s
    2020 conviction on felony sex crime
    charges and ordering a retrial uh the
    New York Court of Appeals finding that
    the judge who presided over this
    original trial made a critical error
    when he allowed the jury to hear
    testimony from women who alleged that
    Weinstein had sexually assaulted them
    even though those claims were not among
    the charges that were filed against him
    uh this is what his lawyer said today
    there are some people who are very
    unpopular in our
    society but we still have to apply the
    law fairly to them and in this
    Courthouse behind us at that trial the
    law was not applied fairly to Harvey
    Weinstein
    well let’s bring back my panel here Mike
    rsh Christina and joining our panel here
    is ABC News legal contributor and
    partner at the Cochran Law Firm Shauna
    Lloyd uh shaa can I actually get your
    reaction right there uh from what we
    just heard from the lawyer that that he
    doesn’t think he was treated fairly and
    I also want for you to clarify for our
    viewers watching this that these were
    not this was not his only conviction he
    was convicted here in La so tell us
    about what happens to Harvey next
    correct let’s begin with that he was
    convicted in LA and he’s still serving
    that sentence so this does not mean that
    he’s been released from prison he is
    still incarcerated and will remain so
    what this attorney is pointing out is
    really what happened there was a
    procedural indiscretion by the judge to
    allow in testimony that is not typically
    allowed in at a criminal trial the judge
    always has to balance out whether
    information about prior bad acts has
    some it has to be tied to some material
    fact in the current trial just because
    you did bad things in the past doesn’t
    mean that it can be used in your current
    trial unless it’s tied something
    specific and that is what this ruling is
    about
    today all right and Christina I’d love
    to get your reaction here I mean do you
    feel that the decision from the appeals
    court is warranted
    here I I mean the appeals court had to
    balance a lot of things out but what we
    do know is that this doesn’t cast doubt
    in the minds of millions of people and
    like um was just stated he is still
    convicted in the state of California for
    these other crimes and it’s serving 16
    years there is no doubt about his guilt
    um in other cases this is a question of
    um how this case was moved forward and
    really who I’m thinking about are the
    numerous women that had The Bravery to
    come forward after years and years of a
    very powerful man that used his position
    to sexually assault rape um harass and
    ruin the careers of women that even
    threaten to speak up so that’s who I’m
    thinking about today un less about
    Harvey Weinstein
    himself and I think that many of those
    women if this does go back to court in
    New York will have to take that stand
    again and tell their stories uh once
    again uh romes what’s your take here
    well I think the appell attorney made uh
    an excellent point there that unpopular
    people have due process rights and I
    would add justly unpopular people uh bad
    people have due process rights as well
    and uh the legal principle here is an
    important one because you need to be
    convicted uh based on the evidence that
    you committed the offense that you were
    charged with not that you committed some
    offense that you weren’t charged with
    and that you weren’t that wasn’t
    actually proven Beyond A Reasonable
    Doubt in court um so uh as as much as we
    might be glad that he is in jail and
    hope that he stays in jail I think that
    that’s a uh that’s that’s that point was
    right was the correct
    one I mean it really comes down to Legal
    procedure right but also Mike in the
    bigger picture here this case to quote
    Bob boy who was on this case was
    foundational I mean this changed the
    lives of a lot of people and we saw a
    lot of powerful men fall in the me too
    movement after
    this you’re exactly right Kana and I
    think I will pick up to answer your
    question where shaa really left off in
    that excellent explanation about this
    was overturn on a technicality and to
    bring into our other segment is that the
    reason I’m happy that it was about
    technicality is that it doesn’t create a
    chilling effect for other women to come
    in the future to present um their case
    of possible abuse that was what the me
    too movement was really about in the
    silver lining of that movement that it
    gave so many women uh a community uh and
    confident to come forward knowing that
    they will be believed and prior to the
    me to era mov it the challenge for women
    coming forward was they felt that they
    wouldn’t be believed and they wouldn’t
    be taken serious that’s what the me
    movement really did and so although this
    was overturned I’m glad that was
    overturned on the technicality so it
    doesn’t create a Ching effect for women
    to come forward in the future right
    they’re not questioning their
    story all right Mike Christina shaa and
    rsh we have we have a lot to talk about
    we will continue to talk about this
    thank you so much for being with us here
    today all right coming up in our last
    call here graduation season is upon us
    but those diplomas they might not count
    much in your job hunt my panel weighs in
    on why more companies are ditching those
    college degrees that’s next
    [Music]
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    [Music]
    live there’s so many different ways that
    people will find their own path to
    success you now for some of us that
    means college for some of us it means
    skills and we have a lot of programs
    where we want to make sure people have
    the skills they need to be successful
    recognizing that that while college is
    great for some it’s not exactly the
    right answer for everyone
    all right it’s time now for our last
    call that was the CEO of Walmart talking
    about a growing Trend that his company
    is one of more than a dozen across this
    country that are dropping college degree
    requirements for thousands of
    high-paying jobs they’re opting instead
    to train workers internally I want to
    bring back my panel to talk about this
    let’s start with you rsh I think this is
    a really fascinating idea here because
    we know a lot of parents sort of present
    College as just what you do after high
    school to their kids but you know we’ve
    had Mike Row on the show to talk about
    the importance of trade school and
    learning those other skills and how that
    can help the
    workplace yes I think we’re in the
    middle of a an overdue
    reassessment of this question of whether
    it’s right to sort of tell everybody
    that the only path to success is the
    traditional college diploma and we’re
    seeing that in the private sector we’re
    seeing it in governments governments in
    Pennsylvania and Maryland have also been
    dropping some of these college
    requirements for government jobs uh you
    know because you don’t want to be
    screening out people who can do the job
    well if you do that you’re just stifling
    opportunity and let’s talk about the
    money factor in this Christina I mean
    kids are leaving school with so much
    debt right now this is coming at a time
    when some private universities
    reportedly could cost I me $90,000 a
    year for
    tuition yeah I mean I think that there’s
    two things that are that we can
    celebrate here one is that there is
    great opportunities for people that have
    real life skills and on the job
    experience to be able to grow in their
    workplaces that’s great for those
    employers and those workers and the last
    thing we need to make sure we’re doing
    is making sure college is more
    affordable for everyone because still
    the majority of jobs new jobs in this
    country do require a college degree they
    do and so Mike does an idea like this

    –––

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