LIVE: ABC News Live – Thursday, April 25 | ABC News
tonight new indictments in the so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
presidential election the Trump allies
involved the former president named as
an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
claim and the
impact the airline industry now
responding to new rules from the Biden
Administration that would force the
airlines to pay you back in cash if you
face bad delays or cancellations
what could come
next New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011 days
their message this morning the American
Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
than a decade in prison for what was
found in his carry-on plus a life-saving
transplant like no other the
groundbreaking procedure that saved a
dying grandmother and she’s only in the
third grade
[Music]
but she and her violin are taking the
World by
storm from ABC news in New York this is
America this morning good Thursday
morning everyone I’m Maran and Aly and
I’m Andrew dibert we begin with new
unrest overnight at college campuses
Across the Nation yeah crowds protesting
the Israel Hamas war clashed with police
in Texas and California at least 93
people have been arrested at USC and
dozens more have been arrested at the
University of Texas and today a major
deadline at another campus where these
protests first escalated last
week more Chaos on college campuses
across the
country at the University of Texas at
Austin Police clashing with Pro
Palestinian
protesters dozens arrested as officers
used horses to disperse students some
nearly crashing into our reporter on the
scene no what are you doing what are you
doing at the University of Southern
California tense moments as police
confronted protesters after tearing down
tents officers in riot gear marching
onto campus surrounding and arresting
protesters who refuse to
leave protests also cropping up at Brown
and Harvard where students protesting
the war in Gaza are demanding the
university divest from
[Applause]
Israel at Colombia where this wave of
Israel Hamas War protests began last
week the clock is ticking down to
tonight’s deadline to end the protests
on campus myself my peers my colleagues
my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
not going to rest we will stand here
until the University divests from
Israeli aparti and their genocidal
campaign in Gaza protests have been
marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
violence driven in some cases officials
say by outside non-student agitators one
officer was assaulted with a water jug
at cow humbold in Northern California
that school now closed through the
weekend house Speaker Mike Johnson is
threatening to pull Federal funding for
schools that don’t create safe
environments for Jewish students he
visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
allow this kind of hatred and an
anti-Semitism to flourish on our
campuses they have chased down Jewish
students they have mocked them and
reviled them they have shouted racial E
epithets Johnson later speaking with our
lindsy Davis but for people who are just
saying we simply don’t like the way the
Palestinians are being treated and
killed that’s a different conversation
have that conversation have a debate we
believe in the free expression of ideas
and the free Marketplace of ideas that
is not what is happening here they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from exercising
their freedom that’s the limit that’s
the line Johnson also suggested the
National Guard could be used if needed
to break up the protests the White House
said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
free speech on college campuses is
important the other big story this
morning new indictments and a so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
election former president Trump is named
as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
win has the details on this m good
morning ran and good morning Arizona is
now the fourth state where allies of
former president Trump have been charged
with trying to keep him in
power this morning seven attorneys or
Aids affiliated with former president
Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
over alleged efforts to overturn the
2020 election in that state they include
Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
National Committee senior Council for
election Integrity the indictment makes
references to those affiliated with
Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
attorney general says the names will be
unredacted after each is served the
indictment Arizona’s election was free
and fair the people of Arizona elected
President Biden unwilling to accept this
fact the defendants charged by the state
grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
the lawful transfer of the presidency
the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
electors accused of submitting a
document to Congress falsely declaring
that Trump had won Arizona the charges
include fraud forgery and conspiracy
Trump is named as unindicted
co-conspirator one in the case which
claims Trump and his allies schemed to
prevent the lawful transfer of the
presidency the Trump campaign calls the
indictment another example of Democrats
weaponization of the legal system Trump
was also named an unindicted
co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
Republicans are charged with illegally
trying to replace electoral votes for
Biden with electoral votes for Trump
meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
arguments over whether Trump can be
prosecuted in his federal election
interference case stemming from the
January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
absolute immunity over criminal
prosecution for any official acts as
president on the theory that just like
with civil immunity presidents need to
be able do to do their jobs without
worrying about being sued presidents
need to be able to do their jobs without
worrying about being indicted and so
he’s raised this primarily in the
January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
decision could have implications on some
of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
St
is first of all the the various cases
pending against Donald Trump in which
he’s raised the question of criminal
immunity that includes all three of
those that have not gone to trial the
January 6 case the maral Lago case and
the Georgia case because for all of
those for at least part of the time he
was
President while arguments are heard at
the Supreme Court former president Trump
will be in a New York courtroom for his
hush money trial former National
Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
back on the stand Andrew M thank you
house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
repeal a near total ban on abortions
after three Republicans crossed party
lines to pass the bill it now heads to
the state senate if the law which dates
all the way back to 1864 is repealed
Arizona will revert to a 15-week
abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
yesterday heard arguments on whether
federal law can override State abortion
bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
justices appeared divided a ruling is
expected in June now to your money in
the airline industry responding to new
rules from the Biden Administration that
would force the airlines to pay you back
in cash when you face bad delays or
cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
back against new rules that will soon
require them to refund passengers for
certain flights that are canceled or
delayed the US transportation department
announced the new policy yesterday that
will require Airlines give automatic
cash refunds within 7 days when a flight
is canceled for any reason delayed by
more than 3 hours for domestic travel
and more than 6 hours for international
travel or if the airline changes any of
your airports adds connections or
downgrades your seat I think for you
know the average flyer um it’d be really
good beneficial holding the uh airlines
more accountable under current
regulations the airlines decide how long
a delay must last before triggering
refunds Transportation secretary Pete
Budaj says that era is over this isn’t
just about enforcing when something goes
wrong it’s making it less likely
something would go wrong in the first
place but the trade group representing
the airlines argues customer
satisfaction and air travel are at an
all-time high and air fars are at an
all-time low when adjusted for inflation
they say refund complaints have fallen
sharply since 2020 with $43 billion in
refunds since then and they argue this
new policy will add confusion for
consumers reduction in choice and a
decline in competition which
historically drives up prices the Biden
Administration argues otherwise this
will build confidence in air travel at a
time when Airlines need to do more to
secure passengers trust and there are
more ways to get a refund if your
checked luggage isn’t delivered within
12 hours for your domestic travel or
your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
Airlines have six months to comply with
new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
for that a milestone today in Baltimore
a new shipping channel is opening where
the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
bridge used to be it will reopen the
city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
it handled before last month’s bridge
collapse the next challenge is freeing
the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
your Thursday
weather this is what’s left of a freight
train that derailed about 200 mil west
of Dallas Texas during a storm winds up
to 60 M an hour blew the cars off the
rails but no one was hurt more severe
storms are expected across Texas and
into the plains tonight through Friday
and a second system this weekend could
bring damaging winds hail and tornadoes
from Texas to Chicago checking today’s
high temperatures 50s in the Northeast
and Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the
South 94 in South Texas
coming up a new fight to lower the price
of a popular weight loss drug also ahead
a life-saving transplant like no other
the groundbreaking procedure that just
saved a dying grandmother and later the
8-year-old and her violin on the world
[Music]
[Applause]
stage whenever news breaks we are here
in Israel a nation at war after that
brutal surprise attack by Hamas on the
ground in Ukraine reporting from Leon
Maine the scene of a horrific mass
shooting ABC News live is right there
everywhere from the scene of that deadly
missile strike in Dena
Ukraine reporting from the earthquake in
Turkey en rolling Fort This Tornado tore
through this little town from the most
devastating disaster in Hawaii from
Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
traveling with the president in Mexico
City wherever the story from the front
lines from Southern Israel outside the
Gaza Strip in Beirut from the FBI
reporting from the nurses on the picket
line here at 10 Downing Street in London
streaming live to you wherever the story
is wherever the story is wherever the
story is we’re going to take you there
you’re streaming ABC News live ABC News
live you’re streaming ABC News live ABC
news live streaming free everywhere
America’s number one streaming news it’s
lunchtime in America so what are we
serving up well how about everything you
need to know you know that sounds pretty
good your health your money breaking
news pop culture with the biggest Stars
music Trends and of course good
food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
afternoon for everything you need to
know I love that me Sunday night people
think they really know you what do you
think of the biggest misconception about
you
John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC right now there’s just so much
happening in our world so much at stake
at the start of every morning morning
and that’s why at Good Morning America
we’re right here and we got you we got
you we got
you
who pretty intense scene there we’re
back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
Angeles uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
during what became an aborted landing at
LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
the airport and touched down without
incident a short time later it’s not
clear what led to the hard Landing glad
everyone’s okay the company that makes
us o zic and wovi is facing a senate
investigation over what critics describe
as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
Sanders says the popular drugs which are
used to treat diabetes and obesity are
unaffordable for millions of Americans
but they are dramatically cheaper in
other countries but drug makers say it’s
easy to oversimplify the complexities
involved in pricing doctors here in New
York say a groundbreaking new surgery
has saved the life of a Dying
grandmother and now she’s speaking out
just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
was Gravely ill suffering from heart
failure and kidney disease but today I
got more energy I feel um energized I
feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
after her doctors performed a combined
heart pump and pig kidney transplant
surgery whenever you do that um when you
combine things that are just on The
Cutting Edge um you know of the future
um you just don’t know how it’s going to
turn out the combination surgery a first
but Lisa is not the first person to
receive the Revolutionary kidney
transplant she’s the second just last
month a 62-year-old man in Massachusetts
with endstage kidney disease became the
first person to receive a genetically
edited Pig kidney and he’s now home
recovering both patients now providing
hope for the more than a 100,000 people
in the US waiting on a transplant list
no one will have to die waiting for
someone else to to die so they can be
saved I’m getting stronger and stronger
every day um
and it just feels the right thing that I
did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
organ rejection and they feel good about
her long-term prognosis love to hear it
yeah coming up the American Tourist in
the Caribbean facing 12 years in prison
for bullets found in his luggage also
ahead New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011
days Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonjovi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
EC Whenever Wherever news breaks it’s so
important to always remember that lives
are changed here in London in Buffalo
Uvaldi Texas edinb Scotland reporting
from Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
refugees here in Warson we’re heading to
a small community outside of Mexico City
getting you behind the stories as they
happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
you there stream ABC News live week
nights wherever you stream your news
only on ABC News live it’s lunchtime in
America so what are we serving up well
how about everything you need to know
you know that sounds pretty
good your health your money breaking
news pop culture with the biggest Stars
music Trends and of course good
food GMA
what you need to know a third hour of
GMA in the afternoon so join us
afternoon for everything you need to
know I love
me this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia next Wednesday night
on
ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
security in Turks and Kos found four
hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
but he now faces up to 12 years in
prison he’s required to stay in Turks
and Kos until his next court hearing in
junee stay strong that is the message
from the parents of an American hostage
held by Hamas seen on video for the
first time since
October this morning the world is now
seeing HH Goldberg pollen alive more
than 200 days after the American Israeli
citizen was taken hostage during the
October 7th attack
Goldberg speaking in Hebrew hs’s hair is
shaved and he’s missing part of his left
arm the 24-year-old says I am the son of
Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
I love you very much I miss you very
much I think of you every day that I’m
here I need you to stay strong for me
and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
Hamas recorded the video which hersh’s
parents gave ABC News permission to
show HS was seen at the music festival
in Israel that came under attack being
pushed into this truck by Hamas
terrorists his parents say HS was hiding
in a
shelter when militants threw grenades
inside severely wounding his arm just
days after their son was taken captive
last fall her’s mother said this to
David mure we are every person’s
nightmare that’s who we
are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
a mother or has a mother can imagine
what I’m going through and now a mix of
both relief and and worry seeing a video
of HS today is overwhelming we’re
relieved to see him alive but we are
also concerned about his health and
[Music]
[Applause]
wellbeing the video of HS prompted
protesters to take to the streets in
Jerusalem last night demanding the
government do more to bring home the
hostages about 130 are still believed to
be held by Hamas her if you can hear
this we heard your voice today for the
first time in 20 one days and if you can
hear us we love you stay strong
survive talks for a potential hostage
deal between Israel and Hamas have
stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
the group will lay down its weapons if a
two-state solution is implemented coming
up the insects prompting calls to 911
plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
really out of this world we’ll show it
to you
with so much at stake so much on the
line more Americans turn here than any
other newscast ABC News World News
Tonight with David mure America’s number
one most watched newscast across all of
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
Television come give it all to
me give it to me
Sunday night people think they really
know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon JY I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John Bon Joi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on DC
Babe Ruth Hank Aron showy Otani Legends
of the game but now the list of greats
redefined from ABC News reclaim the
Forgotten League a side of the story of
baseball you have never heard before
like this the award-winning podcast is
back listen wherever you get your
podcast or scan the QR code you see here
every Friday the hottest Trends Styles
and must tab it’s time to buy the right
stuff and save big time to the right
stuff Fridays on
you’re going to love it why do so many
people start their day here from ABC
News this is start here to be in the
know and get a different take on the
day’s top stories a lot of news today so
let’s get into it listen now to the
Daily News podcast honored with four
Edward R mural Awards and see why the
New York Times calls it a news podcast
worth listening to start here ABC News
make it your daily first listen now
that’s a part of the story I bet you
didn’t see coming wherever you get your
podcasts start here reporting from the
protests at Columbia University I’m
Stephanie Ros wherever the story is
we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
[Music]
live time to check the pulse and we
begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
fact police in some parts of the
Southeastern us say they are now getting
tons of calls about
this it is loud it is male cicada trying
to attract a mate police urge please do
not call them to complain next some
football dreams are about to come true
the NFL draft is tonight in Detroit with
the number one pick the Bears are
expected to choose Caleb Williams the
quarterback who won the highman at USC
Jaden Daniels the quarterback at LSU
also won the Heisman he’s expected to be
chosen second by the commanders he spoke
to our will
Reed do you have in your mind and your
heart a team that you definitely want to
go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
going to disclose that but kind of do we
I’ll see what happens how it plays out
we will see tonight more from Daniels on
Good Morning America as well and watch
the draft right here on ABC next a viin
prodigy only 8 years old yes she’s eight
and she’s already played Carnegie
[Music]
Hall that is Ria King she’s from New
Jersey she just won a prestigious
competition in
Europe I love violin because I can touch
people’s hearts with the um beauty of
music I really want to become a great
violinist well she’s well on her way she
touched our hearts finally a truly
highflying stunt this is skateboarder
Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
air balloon he finished his trick by
free falling back onto his board with a
parachute top headlines
next it’s lunchtime in America so what
are we serving up well how about
everything you need to know you know
that sounds pretty good it to your
health your money breaking news pop
culture with the biggest Stars music
Trends and of course good
food gma3 what you need to know a hour
of GMA in the afternoon so join us
afternoon for everything you need to
know I love that why do so many people
start their day here from ABC News this
is start here to be in the know and get
a different take on the day’s top
stories a lot of news today so let’s get
into it listen now to the Daily News
podcast honored with four Edward R murl
Awards and see why the New York Times
calls it a news podcast worth listening
to start here ABC News make it get your
daily first listen now that’s a part of
the story I bet you didn’t see coming
wherever you get your podcasts start
here wherever news breaks it’s so
important to always remember that lives
are changed getting you behind the
stories as they happen ABC News live
Prime we’ll take you there streaming
free on ABC News live with so much at
stake so much on the line more Americans
turn here than any other newscast ABC
News World News Tonight with David mure
America’s number one most watched
newscast across all of
Television it’s Sunday night people
think they really know you what do you
think of the biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special we’ll start singing by the
way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John Von
I’m a rock and roll star I’m not a saint
I’m John bonjovi halfway there Sunday
night on
ABC checking more top stories tensions
are rising at campuses all across the
country nearly a 100 protesters rallying
against the war in Gaza were arrested at
USC last night and dozens of pro
Palestinian demonstrators were arrested
at the University of Texas overseas
Israeli forces launched new attacks in
southern Lebanon saying they hit about
40 Terror targets an Israeli official
claims half of the Hezbollah commanders
there have now been killed Rudy Giuliani
and former white house chief of staff
Mark Meadows appeared to have been
indicted in a fake elector scheme in
Arizona along with other Trump allies
Trump himself was named as an unindicted
co-conspirator the federal government is
now requesting bird flu testing for
dairy cattle the move affects cows being
transported between states it comes
after inactive traces of the virus were
found in some milk samples today’s
weather rain and snow from the Northwest
to the Rockies severe storms in Texas
and the plains rain across the nation’s
midsection finally a good deed is
sparking an unlikely friendship Danny
new
explains and right after he shoots a
T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
busis first met young Kelvin here he was
a little startled opening my eyes and I
see a kid that’s about my height it was
this past Good Friday as you can see on
this security footage from a coffee shop
in bat Rouge Matt decided to go outside
while he was waiting for his Joe and
pray for a little bit but that’s when
Kelvin who was waiting with his dad at
the Eye Care office next door noticed
Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
are you homeless cuz if you are here’s a
dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
still help him get something Matt was
touched and instead offered to buy
Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
with it I’m not buz but what Kelvin did
not know is that Matt is the former star
of the A&E show country bucks and has
become a very successful businessman in
the hunting industry our station in
Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
first reunion recently where Kelvin
learned this news on camera you’re on
Google like you’re that famous I’m on
Google I would say I’m not that famous
though you can lend me a couple bucks
right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
do a whole lot more than that at his
store you saw Kelvin getting tot hun in
earlier Matt told Kelvin he could run
around for 40 seconds go and grab as
much merch as he wanted did you really
pick out this bike yes including this
$2,000 bike but Matt didn’t mind because
I guess you can’t really put a price on
inspiration this generation that’s
coming up could if they’re more like
Kelvin they can change the world I give
you a dollar you give me a $2,000 bike
clearly Kelvin is also going to be a
great businessman one day guys we could
take some tips that’s we can that’s
what’s making news in America this
morning by the way tonight’s draft 87
Central right here on
[Music]
ABC right now in America this morning
Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
with police on more college campuses
from California to Texas dozens of
arrests a top lawmaker threatening to
bring in the National Guard and now a
major deadline set for
tonight new indictments in the so-called
fake elector steam after the 2020
presidential election the Trump allies
involved the former president named as
an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
claim and the
impact the airline industry now
responding to new rules from the Biden
Administration that would force the
airlines to pay you back in cash if you
face bad delays or cancellations what
could come
next New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011 days
their message this morning the American
Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
than a decade in prison for what was
found in his carry-on plus a life saving
transplant like no other the
groundbreaking procedure that saved a
dying grandmother hey and she’s only in
the third
grade but she and her violin are taking
the World by
storm from ABC news in New York this is
America this morning good Thursday
morning everyone I’m ran and Aly and I’m
Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
overnight at college campuses Across the
Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
Hamas war clashed with police in Texas
and California at least 93 people have
been arrested at USC and dozens more
have been arrested at the University of
Texas and today a major deadline at
another campus where these protests
first escalated last
week more Chaos on college campuses
across the
country at the University of Texas at
Austin Police clashing with Pro
Palestinian
protesters dozens arrested as officers
used horses to disperse students some
nearly crashing into our reporter on the
scene no what are you doing what are you
doing at the University of Southern
California tense moments as police
confronted protesters after tearing down
tents officers in riot gear marching
onto campus surrounding and arresting
protesters who refuse to
leave protests also cropping up at Brown
and Harvard where students protesting
the war in Gaza are demanding the
university divest from Israel will not
will not
at Colombia where this wave of Israel
Hamas War protests began last week the
clock is ticking down to tonight’s
deadline to end the protest on campus
myself my peers my colleagues my friends
we’re not going to stop we’re not going
to rest we will stand here until the
University divests from Israeli
apartheid and their genocidal campaign
in Gaza protests have been marred by
anti-semitic hate speech and violence
driven in some cases officials say by
outside non-student agitators one
officer was assaulted with a water jug
at cow poly humbold in Northern
California that school now closed
through the weekend house Speaker Mike
Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
funding for schools that don’t create
safe environments for Jewish students he
visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
allow this kind of hatred and an
anti-Semitism to flourish on our
campuses they have chased down Jewish
students they have mocked them and
reviled them they have shouted racial EP
epithets Johnson later speaking with our
lindsy Davis but for people who are just
saying we simply don’t like the way
Palestinians are being treated and
killed that’s a different conversation
have that conversation have a debate we
believe in the free expression of ideas
and the free Marketplace of ideas that
is not what is happening here they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from exercising
their freedom that’s the limit that’s
the line Johnson also suggested the
National Guard could be used if needed
to break up the protests the White House
said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
free speech on college campuses is
important the other big story this
morning new indictments and a so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
election former president Trump is named
as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
win has the details on this m good
morning ran and good morning Arizona is
now the fourth state where allies of
former president Trump have been charged
with trying to keep him in
power this morning seven attorneys or
Aids affiliated with former president
Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
over alleged efforts to overturn the
2020 election in that state they include
Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
National Committee senior Council for
election Integrity the indictment makes
references to those affiliated with
Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
attorney general says the names will be
unredacted after each is served the
indictment Arizona’s election was free
and fair the people of Arizona elected
President Biden unwilling to accept this
fact the defendants charged by the state
grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
the lawful transfer of the presidency
the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
electors accused of submitting a
document to Congress falsely declaring
that Trump had won Arizona the charges
include fraud forgery and conspiracy
Trump is named as unindicted
co-conspirator one in the case which
claims Trump and his allies schemed to
prevent the lawful transfer of the
presidency the Trump campaign calls the
indictments another example of Democrats
weaponization of the legal system Trump
was also named an unindicted
co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
Republicans are charged with illegally
trying to replace electoral votes for
Biden with electoral votes for Trump
meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
arguments over whether Trump can be
prosecuted in his Federal election
interference case stemming from the
January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
absolute immunity over criminal
prosecution for any official acts as
president on the theory that just like
with civil immunity presidents need to
be able do to do their jobs without
worrying about being sued presidents
need to be able to do their jobs without
worrying about being indicted and so
he’s raised this primarily in the
January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
decision could have implications on some
of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
stake is first of all the the various
cases pending against Donald Trump in
which he’s raised the question of
criminal immunity that includes all
three of those that have not gone to
trial the January 6 case the maralago
case and the Georgia case because for
all of those for at least part of the
time he was
President well arguments are heard at
the Supreme Court former president Trump
will be in a New York courtroom for his
hush money trial former National
Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
back on the stand Andrew M thank you
house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
repal a near total ban on abortions
after three Republicans crossed party
lines to pass the bill it now heads to
the state senate if the law which dates
all the way back to 1864 is repealed
Arizona will revert to a 15-week
abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
yesterday heard arguments on whether
federal law can override State abortion
bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
justices appear divided a ruling is
expected in June now to your money in
the airline industry responding to new
rules from the Biden Administration that
would force the airlines to pay you back
in cash when you face bad delays or
cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
back against new rules that will soon
require them to refund passengers for
certain flights that are canceled or
delayed the US transportation department
announced the new policy yesterday that
will require Airlines give automatic
cash refunds within seven days when a
flight is canceled for any reason
delayed by more than three hours for
domestic travel and more than 6 hours
for international travel or if the
airline changes any of your airports
adds connections or downgrades your seat
I think for you know the average flyer
um it’d be really good beneficial
holding the uh airlines more accountable
under current regulations the airlines
decide how long a delay must last before
triggering refunds Transportation
secretary Pete Budaj says that era is
over this isn’t just about enforcing
when something goes wrong it’s making it
less likely something would go wrong in
the first place but the trade group
representing the airlines argues
customer satisfaction and air travel are
at an all-time high and air fairs are at
an all-time low when adjusted for
inflation they say refund complaints
have fallen sharply since 2020 with $43
billion in refunds since then and they
argue this new policy will add confusion
for consumers reduction in choice and a
decline in competition which
historically drives up prices the Biden
Administration argues otherwise this
will build confidence in air travel at a
time when Airlines need to do more to
secure passengers trust and there are
more ways to get a refund if your
checked luggage isn’t delivered within
12 hours for your domestic travel or
your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
Airlines have 6 months to comply with
new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
for that a milestone today in Baltimore
a new shipping channel is opening where
the wage of the Francis Scott Key bridge
used to be it will reopen the city’s
port to 80% of the vessel traffic it
handled before last month’s bridge
collapse the next challenge is freeing
the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
your Thursday weather
this is what’s left of a freight train
that derailed about 200 Mi west of
Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
60 Mi an hour blew the cars off the
rails but no one was hurt more severe
storms are expected across Texas and
into the plains tonight through Friday
and a second system this weekend could
bring damaging winds hail and tornadoes
from Texas to Chicago checking today’s
high temperatures 50s in the Northeast
and Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the
South 94 in South
Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
price of a popular weight loss drug also
ahead a life-saving transplant like no
other the groundbreaking procedure that
just saved a dying grandmother and later
the 8-year-old and her violin on the
world
[Music]
stage we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning begin of
her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around promise
to God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D will match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC this
is not about parents who just let their
kid watch violent movies play violent
video games this is about parents who
neglected their son ignored his cries
for help then bought him a gun the first
parents in America to be charged in a
school shooting they purchased that gun
for him and bragged about it you don’t
get to walk away from that that’s a
criminal act sins of the parents the
crumbly trials the opposite of love is
not hate it’s just being ignored only on
Hulu Whenever Wherever news breaks it’s
so important to always always remember
that lives are changed here in London in
Buffalo yaldi Texas edin BR Scotland
reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
Ukrainian refugees here in waron we’re
heading to a small community outside of
Mexico City getting you behind the
stories as they happen ABC News live
Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
News live week nights wherever you
stream your news only on ABC News live
why do so many people start their day
here from ABC News this is start here to
be in the know and get a different take
on the day’s top stories a lot of news
today so let’s get into it listen now to
the Daily News podcast honored with four
Edward R murl Awards and see why the New
York Times calls it a news podcast worth
listening to start here ABC News make it
your daily first listen now that’s a
part of the story I bet you didn’t see
coming wherever you get your podcasts
start here I’m Whit Johnson reporting
from Maui wherever the story is we’ll
take you there you’re streaming ABC News
live pretty intense scene there we’re
back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
angelist uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
during what became an aborted landing at
LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
the airport and touched down without
incident a short time later it’s not
clear what led to the hard Landing glad
everyone ‘s okay the company that makes
OIC and wovi is facing a senate
investigation over what critics describe
as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
Sanders says the popular drugs which are
used to treat diabetes and obesity are
unaffordable for millions of Americans
but they are dramatically cheaper in
other countries but drug makers say it’s
easy to oversimplify the complexities
involved in pricing doctors here in New
York say a groundbreaking new surgery
has saved the life of a Dying
grandmother and now she’s speaking out
just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
was Gravely ill suffering from heart
failure and kidney disease but today I
got more energy I feel um energized I
feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
after her doctors performed a combined
heart pump and pig kidney transplant
surgery whenever you do that um when you
combine things that are just on The
Cutting Edge
um you know of the future um you just
don’t know how it’s going to turn out
the combination surgery a first but Lisa
is not the first person to receive the
Revolutionary kidney transplant she’s
the second just last month a 62-year-old
man in Massachusetts with endstage
kidney disease became the first person
to receive a genetically edited Pig
kidney and he’s now home recovering both
patients now providing hope for the more
than a 100,000 people in the US waiting
on a transplant list no one will have to
die waiting for someone else to die so
they can be saved I’m getting stronger
and stronger every day um
and it just feels the right thing that I
did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
organ rejection and they feel good about
her long-term prognosis love to hear it
yeah coming up the American Tourist in
the Caribbean facing 12 years in prison
for bullets found in his luggage also
ahead New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a Young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011
days with so much at stake so much on
the line more Americans turn here than
any other newscast ABC News World News
Tonight with David mure America’s number
one most watched newscast across all of
television
[Music]
[Applause]
I love it give it
to come it all
me it
to Sunday night people think they really
know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you I
Michael Strahan John bonji I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC Babe Ruth Hank Aron showy Otani
Legends of the game but now the list of
greats redefined from ABC News reclaimed
the Forgotten League a side of the story
of baseball you have never heard before
like this the award-winning podcast is
back listen wherever you get your
podcast or scan the QR code you see here
every Friday the hottest Trends Styles
and must have it’s time to buy the right
stuff and save big time too the right
Stu Fridays on GMA you’re going to love
it whenever wherever news breaks it’s so
important to always remember that lives
are changed here in London in Buffalo
yaldi Texas Edinburgh Scotland reporting
from Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
refugees here in warong we’re heading to
a small community outside of Mexico City
getting you behind the stories as they
happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
you there stream ABC News live week
nights wherever you stream your news
only on ABC News
live we’re back with a Caribbean
vacation nightmare for an Oklahoma
father airport security in Turks and
quos found four hunting bullets in Ryan
Watson’s carry-on bag he says it was a
mistake but he now faces up to 12 years
in prison he’s required to stay in Turks
and Kos until his next court hearing in
June stay strong that is the message
from the parents of an American hostage
held by Hamas seen on video for the
first time since
October this morning the world is now
seeing HH Goldberg pollen alive more
than 200 days after the American Israeli
citizen was taken hostage during the
October 7th attack
goldber speaking in Hebrew hersh’s hair
is shaved and he’s missing part of his
left arm the 24-year-old says I am the
son of Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
I love you very much I miss you very
much I think of you every day that I’m
here I need you to stay strong for me
and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
Hamas recorded the video which hh’s
parents gave ABC News permission to
show H was seen at the music festival in
Israel that came under attack being
pushed into this truck by Hamas teror
his parents say hirsh was hiding in a
shelter when militants threw grenades
inside severely wounding his arm just
days after their son was taken captive
last fall hs’s mother said this to David
mure we are every person’s
nightmare that’s who we
are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
a mother or has a mother can imagine
what I’m going through and now a a mix
of both relief and worry seeing a video
of HS today is overwhelming we’re
relieved to see him alive but we are
also concerned about his health and
[Music]
[Applause]
wellbeing the video of HS prompted
protesters to take to the streets in
Jerusalem last night demanding the
government do more to bring home the
hostages about 130 are still believed to
be held by Hamas pers if you can hear
this we heard your voice today for the
the first time in 201 days and if you
can hear us we love you stay strong
survive talks for a potential hostage
deal between Israel and Hamas have
stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
the group will lay down its weapons if a
two-state solution is implemented coming
up the insects prompting calls to 911
plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
really out of this world we’ll show it
to you
it’s lunchtime in America so what are we
serving up well how about everything you
need to know you know that sounds pretty
good your health your money breaking
news pop culture with the biggest Stars
music Trends and of course good
food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
afternoon for everything you need to to
know I love
that why do so many people start their
day here from ABC News this is start
here to be in the know and get a
different take on the day’s top stories
a lot of news today so let’s get into it
listen now to the Daily News podcast
honored with four Edward R murl Awards
and see why the New York Times calls it
a news podcast worth listening to start
here ABC News make it your daily first
listen now that’s a part of the story I
bet you didn’t see coming wherever you
get your podcasts start here whenever
wherever news breaks it’s so important
to always remember that lives are
changed here in London in Buffalo Uvaldi
Texas Edinburgh Scotland reporting from
Rolling Fork Mississippi Ukrainian
refugees here in Warson we’re heading to
a small community outside of Mexico City
getting you behind the stories as they
happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
you there stre stream ABC News live week
nights wherever you stream your news
only on ABC News live this is not about
parents who just let their kid watch
violent movies play violent video games
this is about parents who neglected
their son ignored his cries for help
then bought him a gun the first parents
in America to be charged in a school
shooting they purchased that gun for him
and bragged about it you don’t get to
walk away from that that’s a criminal
act sins of the parents the crumbly
trials the opposite of love is not hate
it’s just just being ignored only on
Hulu reporting from Leon Maine I’m
lindsy Davis wherever the story is we’ll
take you there you’re streaming ABC News
[Music]
live time to check the pulse and we
begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
fact police in some parts of the
Southeastern us say they are now getting
tons of calls about this
it is loud it is M cicas trying to
attract a mate police urge please do not
call them to complain next some football
dreams are about to come true the NFL
draft is tonight in Detroit with the
number one pick the Bears are expected
to choose Caleb Williams the quarterback
who won the Heisman at USC Jaden Daniels
the quarterback at LSU also won the
Heisman he’s expected to be chosen
second by the commanders he spoke to our
will
Reed do you have in your mind in Your
Heart A team that you definitely want to
go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
going to disclose that but kind of do we
all see what happens how it plays out we
will see tonight more from Daniels on
Good Morning America as well and watch
the draft right here on ABC next a
violin Prodigy only 8 years old yes
she’s eight and she’s already played
Carnegie Hall
[Music]
that is Ria Kang she is from New Jersey
she just won a prestigious competition
in
Europe I love violin because I can touch
people’s hearts with the um beauty of
music I really want to become a great
violinist well she’s well on her way she
touched our hearts finally a truly
highflying stunt this is skateboarder
Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
air balloon he finished his trick by
free falling back onto his board with a
parachute top headlines
next we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your D will
match that Al scene
we have your DNA at the scene what did
you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
ABC
come give it to me why do so many people
start their day here from ABC News this
is start here to be in the know and get
a different take on the day’s top
stories a lot of news today so let’s get
into it listen now to the Daily News
podcast honored with four Edward R murl
Awards and see why the New York Times
calls it a news podcast worth listening
to start here ABC News make it your
daily first listen now that’s a part of
the story I bet you didn’t see coming
wherever you get your podcasts start
here wherever news breaks it’s so
important to always remember that lives
are changed
getting you behind the stories as they
happen ABC News live Prime we’ll take
you there streaming free on ABC News
live is that you Prett good that’s me
and my big booty how much do you make on
only fans versus say an episode on
Sopranos oh way more on only fans
celebrities can absolutely make a living
on only fans Bella is the model he made
it over 20 million do you consider what
you do pornography or sex work only fans
Not Just sex if I had it to do all over
again I would have done it
sooner only on
Hulu checking more top stories tensions
are rising at campuses all across the
country nearly a hundred protesters
rallying against the war in Gaza were
arrested at USC last night and dozens of
pro Palestinian demonstrators were
arrested at the University of Texas
overseas Israeli forces launched new
attacks in in southern Lebanon saying
they hit about 40 Terror targets an
Israeli official claims half of the
Hezbollah commanders there have now been
killed Rudy Giuliani and former white
house chief of staff Mark Meadows
appeared to have been indicted in a fake
elector scheme in Arizona along with
other Trump allies Trump himself was
named as an unindicted co-conspirator
the federal government is now requesting
bird flu testing for Dary cattle the
move affects cows being transported
between states it comes after inactive
traces of the virus were found in some
milk samples today’s weather rain and
snow from the Northwest to the Rockies
severe storms in Texas and the plains
rain across the nation’s midsection
finally a good deed is sparking an
unlikely friendship Danny new
explains and right after he shoots a
T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
busis first met young Kelvin here he was
a little startled open in my eyes and I
see a kid that’s about my height it was
this past Good Friday as you can see on
the security footage from a coffee shop
in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
outside while he was waiting for his Joe
and pray for a little bit but that’s
when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
at the Eye Care office next door noticed
Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
are you homeless cuz if you are here’s a
dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
still help him get something Matt was
touched and instead offered to buy
Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
with it I’m not buz but what Kelvin did
not know was that Matt is the former
star of the A&E show country bucks and
has become a very successful businessman
in the hunting industry our station in
Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
first reunion recently where Kelvin
learned this news on camera you’re on
Google like you’re that famous I’m on
Google I would say I’m not that famous
though you can lend me a couple books
right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
do a whole lot more than that at his
store you saw Kelvin getting to
virtually hun in earlier Matt told
Kelvin he could run around for 40
seconds go and grab as much merch as he
wanted did you really pick out this bike
yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
really put a price on inspiration this
generation that’s coming up could if
they’re more like Kelvin they can change
the world I give you a dollar you give
me a $2,000 bike clearly Kelvin is also
going to be a great business man one day
guys we could take some tips as we can
that’s what’s making news in America
this morning by the way tonight’s draft
87 Central right here on
[Music]
ABC right now in America this morning
Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
with police on more college campuses
from California to Texas dozens of
arrests a top lawmaker threat
threatening to bring in the National
Guard and now a major deadline set for
tonight new indictments in the so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
presidential election the Trump allies
involved the former president named as
an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
claim and the
impact the airline industry now
responding to new rules from the Biden
Administration that would force the
airlines to pay you back in cash if you
face bad delays or cancellations what
could come
next New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 21 days
their message this morning the American
Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
than a decade in prison for what was
found in his carryon plus a life-saving
transplant like no other the
groundbreaking procedure at saved a
dying grandmother and she’s only in the
third
grade but she and her violin are taking
the World by
storm from ABC news in New York this is
America this morning good Thursday
morning everyone I’m ran and Al and I’m
Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
overnight at college campuses Across the
Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
Hamas War clashed with police in Texas
and California at least 93 people have
been arrested at USC and dozens more
have been arrested at the University of
Texas and today a major deadline at
another campus where these protests
first escalated last
week more Chaos on college campuses
across the
country at the University of Texas at
Austin Police clashing with Pro
Palestinian
protesters dozens arrested as officers
used horses to disperse students some
nearly crashing into our reporter on the
scene no what are you doing what are you
doing at the University of Southern
California tense moments as police
confronted protesters after tearing down
tents officers in riot gear marching
onto campus surrounding and arresting
protesters who refuse to
leave protests also cropping up at Brown
and Harver where students protesting the
war in Gaza are demanding the university
divest from Israel
not at Colombia where this wave of
Israel Hamas War protests began last
week the clock is ticking down to
tonight’s deadline to end the protests
on campus myself my peers my colleagues
my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
not going to rest we will stand here
until the University divests from
Israeli apartheid and their genocidal
campaign in Gaza protests have been
marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
violence driven in some cases officials
say by outside non student agitators one
officer was assaulted with a water jug
at cow poly humbold in Northern
California that school now closed
through the weekend house Speaker Mike
Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
funding for schools that don’t create
safe environments for Jewish students he
visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
allow this kind of hatred and an
anti-Semitism to flourish on our
campuses they have chased down Jewish
students they have mocked them and
reviled them they have shouted racial E
epithets Johnson later speaking with our
lindsy Davis but for people who are just
saying we simply don’t like the way the
Palestinians are being treated and
killed that’s a different conversation
have that conversation have a debate we
believe in the free expression of ideas
and the free Marketplace of ideas that
is not what is happening here they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from exercising
their freedom that’s the limit that’s
the line Johnson also suggested the
National Guard could be used if needed
to break up the protests the White House
said it condemns anti-Semitism but said
free speech on college campuses is
important the other big story this
morning new indictments and a so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
election former president Trump is named
as an unindicted co-conspirator ABC’s M
win has the details on this m good
morning Ranna and good morning Arizona
is now the fourth state where allies of
former president Trump have been charged
with trying to keep him in
power this morning seven attorneys or
Aids affiliated with former president
Trump Trump appear to be indicted in
Arizona over alleged efforts to overturn
the 2020 election in that state they
include Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows
Attorney John Eastman and Christina Bob
the Republican National Committee senior
Council for election Integrity the
indictment makes references to those
affiliated with Trump but does not name
them Arizona’s attorney general says the
names will be unredacted after each is
served the indictment Arizona’s election
was free and fair the people of Arizona
elected President Biden unwilling to
accept this fact the defendants charged
by the state grand jury allegedly
schemed to prevent the lawful transfer
of the presidency the indictment does
name 11 alleged fake electors accused of
submitting a document to Congress
falsely declaring that Trump had won
Arizona the charges include fraud
forgery and conspiracy Trump is named as
unindicted co-conspirator one in the
case which claims Trump and his allies
schemed to prevent the lawful transfer
of the presidency the Trump campaign
calls the indictment another example of
Democrats weaponization of the legal
system Trump was also named an
unindicted co-conspirator in Michigan
where 16 Republicans are charged with
illegally trying to replace electoral
votes for Biden with electoral votes for
Trump meanwhile today the Supreme Court
hears arguments over whether Trump can
be prosecuted in his federal election
interference case stemming from the
January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
absolute immunity over criminal
prosecution for any official acts as
president on the theory that just like
with civil immunity presidents need to
be able to to do their jobs without
worrying about being sued presidents
need to be able to do their jobs without
worrying about being indicted and so
he’s raised this primarily in the
January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
decision could have implications on some
of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
stake is first of all the the various
cases pending against Donald Trump in
which he’s raised the question of
criminal immunity that includes all
three of those that have not gone to
trial the January 6 case the maralago
case and the Georgia case because for
all of those for at least part of the
time he was
President while arguments are heard at
the Supreme Court former president Trump
will be in a New York Court room for his
hush money trial former National inquir
publisher David pecker will be back on
the stand Andrew M thank you house
lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
repeal a near total ban on abortions
after three Republicans crossed party
lines to pass the bill it now heads to
the state senate if the law which dates
all the way back to 1864 is repealed
Arizona will revert to a 15-week
abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
yesterday heard arguments on whether
federal law can override State abortion
Bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
justices appeared divided a ruling is
expected in June now to your money in
the airline industry responding to new
rules from the Biden Administration that
would force the airlines to pay you back
in cash when you face bad delays or
cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
back against new rules that will soon
require them to refund passengers for
certain flights that are canceled or
delayed the US transportation department
Department announced the new policy
yesterday that will require Airlines
give automatic cash refunds within 7
days when a flight is canceled for any
reason delayed by more than 3 hours for
domestic travel and more than 6 hours
for international travel or if the
airline changes any of your airports
adds connections or downgrades your seat
I think for you know the average flyer
um it’ be really good beneficial holding
the uh airlines more accountable under
current regulations the lines decide how
long a delay must last before triggering
refunds Transportation secretary Pete
Budaj says that era is over this isn’t
just about enforcing when something goes
wrong it’s making it less likely
something would go wrong in the first
place but the trade group representing
the airlines argues customer
satisfaction and air travel are at an
all-time high and air fairs are at an
all-time low when adjusted for inflation
they say refund complaints have fallen
sharply since 2020 with $43 billion in
refund fund since then and they argue
this new policy will add confusion for
consumers reduction in choice and a
decline in competition which
historically drives up prices the Biden
Administration argues otherwise this
will build confidence in air travel at a
time when Airlines need to do more to
secure passengers trust and there are
more ways to get a refund if your
checked luggage isn’t delivered within
12 hours for your domestic travel or
your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
lines have six months to comply with new
rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you for
that a milestone today in Baltimore a
new shipping channel is opening where
the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
bridge used to be it will reopen the
city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
it handled before last month’s bridge
collapse the next challenge is freeing
the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
your Thursday weather
this is what’s left of a freight train
that derailed about 200 miles west of
Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
60 M an hour blew the cars off the rails
but no one was hurt more severe storms
are expected across Texas and into the
plains tonight through Friday and a
second system this weekend could bring
damaging winds hail and tornadoes from
Texas to Chicago checking today’s high
temperatures 50s in the Northeast and
Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the the
South 94 in South
Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
price of a popular weight loss drug also
ahead a life-saving transplant like no
other the groundbreaking procedure that
just saved a dying grandmother and later
the 8-year-old and her violin on the
world
[Music]
stage this is ABC News live the crush of
families here in Poland at Refugee
centers in Putin Russia on the ground in
Ukraine close to the front line from the
capital destructive Cat 4 store along I
Boston is in the bullseye let’s go ABC
News live America’s number one streaming
news anytime anywhere streaming 24/7
straight to you for free thank you for
making ABC newsline America’s number one
streaming
news it’s lunchtime in America so what
are we serving up well how about
everything you need to know you know
that sounds pretty
good your Heth your money breaking news
pop culture with the biggest Stars music
Trends and of course good
food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
after news for everything you need to
know I love
that we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your DNA will
match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my knife oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC with so much at stake so much on the
line more Americans turn here than any
other newscast ABC News World News
Tonight with David mure America’s number
one most watched newscast across all of
Television hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
and we’re moms juggling tons of stuff
every day like all you moms out there
and you know what we love really love
Pop Culture so listen now to our new
podcast pop culture moms wherever you
get your podcasts right now there’s just
so much happening in our world so much
at stake at the start of every morning
and that’s why at Good Morning America
we’re right here and we got you we got
you we got
you pretty intense scene there we’re
back now with a bumpy Landing in Los
Angeles uh a lafonza 747 bounced twice
during what became an aborted landing at
LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
the airport and touched down without
incident a short time later it’s not
clear what led to the hard Landing glad
everyone’s okay the company that makes
OIC and wovi is facing a senate
investigation over what critics describe
as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
Sanders says the popular drugs which are
used to treat diabetes and obesity are
unaffordable for millions of Americans
but they are dramatically cheaper in
other countries but drug makers say it’s
easy to overs simplify the complexities
involved in pricing doctors here in New
York say a groundbreaking new surgery
has saved the life of a Dying
grandmother and now she’s speaking out
just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
was Gravely ill suffering from heart
failure and kidney disease but today I
got more energy I feel um energized I
feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
after her doctors performed a combined
heart pump and pig kidney transplant
surgery whenever you do that um when you
combine things that are just on The
Cutting Edge um you know of the future
um you just don’t know how it’s going to
turn out the combination surgery a first
but Lisa is not the first person to
receive the Revolutionary kidney
transplant she’s the second just last
month a 62-year-old man in Massachusetts
with endstage kidney disease became the
first person to receive a genetically
edited Pig kidney and he’s now home
recovering both patients now providing
hope for the more than 100,000 people in
the US waiting on a transplant list no
one will have to die waiting for someone
else to die so they can be saved I’m
getting stronger and stronger every day
um
and it just feels the right thing that I
did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
organ rejection and they feel good about
her long-term prognosis we love to hear
it yeah coming up the American Tourist
in the Caribbean facing 12 years in
prison for bullets found in his luggage
also ahead New Hope the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011
days whenever news breaks we are here in
Israel a nation at war after that brutal
surprise attack by Hamas on the ground
in Ukraine reporting from Leon Maine the
scene of a horrific mass shooting ABC
News live is right there everywhere from
the scene of that deadly missile strike
in Dena Ukraine
reporting from the earthquake in Turkey
in Rolling Fork This Tornado tore
through this little town from the most
devastating disaster in Hawaii from
Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
traveling with the president in Mexico
City wherever the story from the front
lines from Southern Israel outside the
Gaza Strip in Beirut from the FBI
reporting from the nurses on the pick
line here at 10 Downing Street in London
streaming live to you wherever the story
is wherever the the story is wherever
the story is we’re going to take you
there you’re streaming ABC News live ABC
News live you’re streaming ABC News live
ABC news live streaming free everywhere
America’s number one streaming news it’s
lunchtime in America so what do we
serving up well how about everything you
need to know you know that sounds pretty
good give it to me your health your
money breaking news pop culture with the
biggest Stars music Trends and of course
good
food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
hour of GMA in the afternoon so join us
afterno for everything you need to know
I love
that we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what the chance your DNA will
match that out
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my KN oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
security in Turks and cosos found four
hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
but he now faces up to 12 years in
prison he’s required to stay in Turks
Kos until his next court hearing in June
stay strong that is the message from the
parents of an American hostage held by
Hamas seen on video for the first time
since
October this morning the world is now
seeing HS Goldberg pollen alive more
than 200 days after the American Israeli
citizen was taken hostage during the
October 7th attack goldber po speaking
in Hebrew hersh’s hair is shaved and
he’s missing part of his left Farm the
24-year-old says I am the son of
Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
California and quote Mom Dad Libby orle
I love you very much I miss you very
much I think of you every day that I’m
here I need you to stay strong for me
and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
Hamas recorded the video which hs’s
parents gave ABC News permission to
show hers was seen at the music festival
in Israel that came under attack being
pushed into this truck by Hamas
terrorists his parents say Hirsch was
hiding in a
shelter when militants threw grenades
inside severely wounding his arm just
days after their son was taken captive
last fall hersh’s mother said this to
David mure we are every person’s
nightmare that’s who we
are anyone who’s a parent anyone who is
a mother or has a mother can imagine
what I’m going through and now a mix of
both relief and worry seeing a video of
horse today is overwhelming we’re
relieved to see him alive but we are
also concerned about his health and
[Music]
[Applause]
well-being the video of HS prompted
protesters to take to the streets in
Jerusalem last night demanding the
government do more to bring home the
hostages about 130 are still believed to
be held by Hamas hers if you can hear
this we heard your voice today for the
first time in 201 days and if you can
hear us we love you stay strong
survive talks for a potential hostage
deal between Israel and Hamas have
stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
the group will lay down its weapons if a
two-state solution is implemented coming
up the insects prompting calls to 911
plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
really out of this world we show it to
you we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your D will
match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use night oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC with so much at stake so much on the
line more Americans turn here than any
other newscast ABC News World News
Tonight with David mure America’s number
one most watched newscast across all of
Television get ready America every
Friday the hottest Trends Styles and
must have what’s the right stuff to buy
right now I really love that it’s time
to buy the right stuff yes and big time
too the right Stu Fridays on GMA you’re
going to love it it’s lunchtime in
America so what are we serving up well
how about everything you need to know
you know that sounds pretty good it to
your health your money breaking news pop
culture with the biggest Stars music
Trends and of course good
food GMA 3 what you need to know a third
hour of GMA in the afternoon so join
after newss for everything you need to
know I love
that whenever wherever news breaks it’s
so important to always remember that
lives are changed here in London in
Buffalo yaldi Texas edin BR Scotland
reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
Ukrainian refugees here in Warson we’re
heading to a small community outside of
Mexico City getting you behind the
stories as they happen ABC News live
Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
News live week nights wherever you
stream your news only on ABC News live
reporting from Arizona State Capital I’m
Elizabeth schy wherever the story is
we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
[Music]
live time to check the pulse and we
begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
fact police in some parts of the
Southeastern us say they are now getting
tons of calls about this
it is loud it is M cicas trying to
attract a mate police urge please do not
call them to complain next some football
dreams are about to come true the NFL
draft is tonight in Detroit with the
number one pick the Bears are expected
to choose Caleb Williams the quarterback
who won the Heisman at USC Jaden Daniels
the quarterback at LSU also won the
Heisman he’s expected to be chosen
second by the commanders he spoke to our
will Reed
do you have in your mind and your heart
a team that you definitely want to go to
I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not going
to disclose that but kind of do I’ll see
what happens how it plays out we will
see tonight more from Daniels on Good
Morning America as well and watch the
draft right here on ABC next a violin
Prodigy only 8 years old yes she’s eight
she’s already played Carnegie Hall
[Music]
that is Ria Kang she is from New Jersey
she just won a prestigious competition
in
Europe I love violin because I can touch
people’s hearts with the um beauty of
music I really want to become a great
violinist well she’s well on her way she
touched our hearts finally a truly
highflying stunt this is skateboarder
Brendan Hayward from La doing his thing
on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
Brazil B the ramp was suspended from a
hot air balloon he finished his trick by
free fall falling back onto his board
with a
parachute top headlines
next this is ABC News live the crush of
families here in Poland at Refugee
centers in Putin Russia on the ground in
Ukraine close to the front line from the
capital destructive Cat 4 storm along I
Boston is in the Bulls let’s go ABC News
live America’s number one streaming news
any time anywhere streaming 247 straight
to you for free thank you for making ABC
newsline America’s number one streaming
news we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your D will
match that I’ll
seene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my nice oh my got the
interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
Queen how does billionaire sound sounds
good to me the Moose started chasing a
dog first thing in the morning America
this morning America’s number one early
morning news on ABC News
live it’s lunchtime in America so what
are we serving up well how about
everything you need to know you know
that sounds pretty
good your health your money breaking
news pu culture with the biggest Stars
music Trends and of course good food
GMA 3 what you need to know a third hour
of GMA in the afternoon so join us
afternoon for everything you need to
know I love
[Music]
that checking more top stories tensions
are rising at campuses all across the
country nearly a hundred protesters
rallying against the war in Gaza were
arrested at USC last night and dozens of
pro Palestinian demonstrators were
arrested at the University of Texas
overseas Israeli forces launched new
attacks in southern Lebanon saying they
hit about 40 Terror targets an Israeli
official claims half of the Hezbollah
commanders there have now been killed
Rudy Giuliani and former white house
chief of staff Mark Meadows appear to
have been indicted in a fake elector
scheme in Arizona along with other Trump
allies Trump himself was named as an
unindicted co-conspirator the federal
government is now requesting bird flu
testing for dairy cattle the move
affects cows being transported between
states it comes after inactive traces of
the virus were found in some milk
samples today’s weather rain and snow
from the Northwest to the Rockies severe
storms in Texas and the plains rain
across the nation’s midsection finally a
good deed is sparking an unlikely
friendship Danny new
explains and right after he shoots a
T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
busis first met young Kelvin here he was
a little startled opening my eyes and I
see a kid that’s about my height it was
the past Good Friday as you can see on
the security footage from a coffee shop
in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
outside while he was waiting for his Joe
and pray for a little bit but that’s
when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
at the Eye Care office next door noticed
Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
are you homeless cuz if you are here is
a dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
still help him get something Matt was
touched and instead offered to buy
Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
with it I’m Matt buz but what Kelvin did
not know was that Matt is the former
star of the a& show country bucks and
has become a very successful businessman
in the hunting industry our station in
Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
first reunion recently where Kelvin
learned this news on camera you’re on
Google like you’re that famous I’m on
Google I would say I’m not that famous
though you can lend me a couple bucks
right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
do a whole lot more than that at his
store you saw Kelvin getting to
virtually hun in earlier Matt told
Kelvin he could run around for 40
seconds go and grab as much merch as he
wanted did you really pick out this bike
yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
really put a price on inspiration this
generation that’s coming up if they’re
more like Kelvin it can change the world
I give you a dollar you give me a $2,000
bike clearly Kelvin is also going to be
a great businessman one day guys we
could take some tips that’s we can
that’s what’s making news in America
this morning by the way tonight’s draft
87 Central right here on
[Music]
ABC it’s Thursday April 25th and All the
President’s Men have been indicted again
we start here
Arizona’s attorney general files
criminal charges against key Trump AIDS
every action by Donald Trump and his
allies has not gone unnoticed the 2020
election continues to reverberate we’ll
break it all
down protest encampments have spread
Nationwide and so have the responses
from police there is concern that they
are going to stay on campuses for the
Long Haul we’ll take you to the latest
campus where arrests have been made
and President Biden signs a bill that
sets the clock tick tocking so basically
what we’re looking at is a year for this
for sale to go through so what happens
next the business world is scolling
furiously to find
out from ABC News this is start here I’m
Brad
milky presidents have to be given total
immunity they have to be allowed to do
their yeah later today the Supreme Court
will hear a case about former president
Donald Trump and whether he can be
charged with any crime for anything he
did while in office specifically this
involves the case around January 6th and
whether Trump tried to illegally subvert
the 2020 presidential election and part
of the government’s case there is that
Trump and his top allies tried to submit
slates of so-called fake electors these
are the people who through the Electoral
College technically elect the president
on behalf of their state even though
Biden won these states fair and square
there was this push to have Republican
lawmakers just say eh the vote was
illegitimate these are the people we’d
like to do the choosing instead that
doesn’t just have the potential to be a
federal crime it could be a State Crime
too and last night Arizona officials
announced indictments against those
so-called fake electors and in a Twist
they also indicted several people close
to the former president let’s bring in
ABC’s John sanui who leads our
investigations coverage John who is
being charged here so Brad this is
really interesting this is a 11 fake
electors some of which you know
obviously held major roles in the
Republican party and Arizona State
politics that have been indicted but
Brad it doesn’t stop there based on our
team’s reading of this indictment some
of which is redacted it does appear that
many close aids to Donald Trump current
and former were also indicted and it’s a
who’s who Brad it includes Rudy Giuliani
Mark Meadows Boris Epstein who still
works for Donald Trump even Christina
Bob one of his lawyers that was involved
in some of the investigations that have
gone on it’s just a remarkable reminder
that you know we talk about all of the
cases that have really haunted Donald
Trump right you talk about the Manhattan
DA’s case the special Council cases
obviously fton County Georgia a big one
that involved Donald Trump Rudy and
Meadows but Arizona was another state
that Donald Trump and his allies were
trying to overturn the election there
and now the state attorney general has
said an indictment and here we are and
so these names like you said huge names
very close to Donald Trump what about
Trump himself so Trump is not indicted
here big difference from from the
Georgia case Brad he’s an unindicted
co-conspirator so it doesn’t mention
Donald Trump by name but based on our
reading of the indictment it appears
Donald Trump is unindicted
co-conspirator number one and it
basically means that Donald Trump was a
part of the actions and activities some
of which obviously illegal based on the
Attorney General’s interpretation of
actions and thus those individuals
including Judy Giuliani and Mark Meadows
were indicted for their actions yeah can
you tell me about like what the alleged
scheme was here because they could have
just indicted the Arizona officials
Michigan for example is doing something
similar where they just stuck to those
people why did this go further so this
went further because remember so much of
this was visible to us right we saw Rudy
Giuliani on the ground with some of his
top allies and AIDS lobbying officials
let’s say there were 5 million
illegal aliens in
Arizona it is
um it’s beyond credulity that a few
hundred thousand didn’t vote we
obviously know based on even what we’ve
seen in Georgia the phone calls that
Mark Meadows and other top aids to
Donald Trump were making i’ like to see
if there’s a way that we could resolve
this so it comes out well for everyone
we’re all Republicans I think we all
have the same goal and here’s the point
think about Rusty Bowers right the
former speaker of the Arizona house he
said that they did have proof and I
asked him do you have names for example
we have 200,000 illegal immigrants some
large number he testified before the
house January 6 committee indicating the
phone calls and lobbying and the
pressure he was under by Donald Trump
and his close Aid and I said do you have
their names yes will you give them to me
yes the president interrupted and said
give the man what he needs Rudy every
action by Donald Trump and his allies
has not gone unnoticed and didn’t go
unnoticed by law enforcement in these
various States you talk about Michigan
we obviously know Georgia now add
Arizona to the list
Brad it’s also just this Crystal Clear
visualization based on this indictment
from the Arizona State Attorney General
that there was a real effort documents
paperwork lobbying that was done to
really build this alternate slate of
electors to say outright that in these
people’s opinion Joe Biden did not
legitimately win the 2020 race in their
eyes it was Donald Trump and clearly
they would do anything possible even lie
even allegedly commit a crime Brad to
make that happen right as we record this
no response yet from Trump or any of
these po I mean they will be defendants
as they were reigned after these
indictments huge news here breaking
overnight thank you so much John thank
you
Brad all right next up on start here
these college protests are getting
intense we’re back in a
[Music]
bit with so much at stake so much on the
line more Americans turn here than any
other newscast ABC News World News
Tonight with David M America’s number
one most watched newscast across all of
television
right now there’s just so much happening
in our world so much at stake at the
start of every morning making sense of
it all that’s not always so easy and
that’s where we come in Good Morning
America we want you to know every
morning we’re right here and we got you
this is the first time you are sitting
down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
between how does billionaire sound
sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
America this morning America’s number
one early morning news on ABC News
live when you think about successful
protest movements most have a few things
in common one they’re passionate two
they’re nonviolent and three they have
specific demands pressuring leaders to
make real con sessions well last week
students at Columbia University in New
York started setting up tents on campus
these were non-violent protesters but
they were
passionate they were nearly impossible
to avoid and what these students were
asking for was simple they wanted their
school to divest itself from any
Financial relationships with the state
of Israel within 24 hours you could see
this having an effect to the point where
other protesters from around the city
started joining them in some cases
making the scene more chaotic and more
nerving especially to Jewish students
who are now being screamed at for any
visible support for Israel those scenes
from Colombia have galvanized more
student groups across the country we’ve
seen encampments spring up on other
campuses and yesterday this seemed to
explode I want to go to ABC’s Chief
National correspondent Matt Gutman who
is on the campus of USC in Los Angeles
right now Matt these scenes are
literally Coast to Coast at this point
what are you seeing they are Brad we’ve
seen protests virtually Coast to Coast
obviously you just mentioned New York
but there there’s also NYU not just
Colombia um there’s Harvard and brown um
there’s been protests at the University
of Texas Austin those protesters were
forcefully removed as well by uh campus
security and
police 20 people arrested there
yesterday um we also had people
protesting in Humbolt County at um
University of California humble way up
in the northern Wilds of California
arrests made there as well and of course
here at USC um one person was sort of
detained and then the crowd sort of
began rushing campus security it was not
violent and the protesters by and large
across the country asking for the same
thing for their universities to divest
from anything related to Israel or
companies that make a profit off of the
War uh taking place Gaza right now so if
they’re nonviolent I mean why the police
response cuz clearly this schools and
local authorities have deemed a lot of
these out of hand there is an issue with
these protesters setting up tents uh
there is concern that they are going to
stay on campuses for the Long Haul
there’s also concern that there have
been activists who’ve intermingled with
the students and the faculty and they’re
not allowed to be on campus uh here at
USC we’ve been told that about 50% of
the activists that we’re seeing uh
protesting certainly yesterday and
possibly again today are people who are
not affiliated with the university and
their security concerns about that also
commencement is not far away and campus
security told me they’re just not going
to allow that to happen they do not want
people sleeping here protesting chanting
yes sleeping on campus in tents in the
quad absolutely not well and the schools
seem uncomfortable with these protests
right because while students here and
there have described being punched or
assaulted a lot of the incidents that we
heard about involved this just
threatening vile speech like at Colombia
we saw someone holding up a sign
basically suggesting hamas’s military
Wing to Target some of the pro-israel
demonstrators there were allegedly
chance of like we are Hamas and people
saying we don’t want you here Zionist
and then Pro Palestinian demonstrators
talk about how you can’t show up to one
of these things you can’t protest
without being worried about being
suspended or threatened or doxed so that
people never hire you but I mean speech
is kind of different so how do schools
decide when and how to involve the
police
it really depends which school and how
significant the protests are here at USC
it has been campus security that it’s
handling it at the University of Texas
Austin UT uh it was State Police that’s
a State University uh school and that’s
the threat that if these campus protests
get out of hand if the protesters try to
stay too long if they try to really
embed themselves on campus with tents or
if they look like they’re trying to stay
for any long period of time then the
major threat is that they would bring in
uh not campus security but State Police
or local authorities yeah it’s
interesting because I feel like a lot of
moderates are like these are concerning
images CU on one hand you want to
celebrate free speech on college
campuses there’s a long proud tradition
of that in this country on the other
hand like these scenes are so intense
that you can imagine how scary and
disruptive it is to I know like today is
USC’s final day of classes there are
Jewish students afraid to attend class
so a lot of moderates are kind of like
but then on the far left you got a lot
of protesters who are enjoying the
visibility on the right now you’re
seeing like Governor Greg Abbott in
Texas saying like all these protest
should go to jail you’re seeing
politicians show up at events it sounds
like it is now becoming a galvanizing
force on the right as well Speaker of
the House Mike Johnson met with students
at Colombia they place a Target on the
backs of Jewish students in the United
States and here on this campus many of
them telling him that these protests do
make them feel threatened on campus the
majority of my friends especially Jewish
friends feel a sense of insecurity at
this time in addition to that Mike
Johnson’s saying that hey he’s going to
talk to President Biden about this he’s
going to bring it to the president he’s
going to say that someone’s got to stop
these protests across the country as
Speaker of the House I am committing
today that the Congress will not be
silent as Jewish students are expected
to run for their lives and stay home
from their classes hiding in
fear he said he’s going to even urge the
president to call in the National Guard
if necessary and appropriate of course
there is a long and very sorted history
of the National Guard interfering with
protests anti-war protests in this
country you remember remember the Kent
State massacre back in
1967 four students murdered on the lawn
there at Kent State by national
Guardsman that caused a massive uproar
in the country so unclear that the
president is going to want to uh go back
to that again but obviously this is
something that is in the Zeitgeist in
America and that people are thinking
about on the left and of course on the
right side of the aisle as well wow yeah
yeah I mean you can see how these
encampments have kind of upended the
Playbook and and now is the are becoming
part of a playbook in themselves uh Matt
Gutman they’re on the campus of USC
thank you so much thanks
Brad yesterday President Biden signed
into law a package of foreign aid bills
most notably were sending $60 billion in
Aid to Ukraine which Biden said would
start moving within hours the next few
hours literally the few hours we going
to begin sending in equipment to uh
Ukraine for air defense Munitions for
artillery for Rockets systems and
armored vehicles this bill originated in
the House of Representatives another
version had actually been floating
around in the Senate but this was the
one that was approved in both Chambers
and one of the big differences here was
tucked inside this house bill it’s a
measure that could potentially ban Tik
Tock yeah the app with the Chinese
parent company the app that reportedly
has 170 billion American users that’s
half the population well as of today the
clock is ticking on a forced sale of Tik
Tok so what happens now ABC Elizabeth
SCH has been covering all this she
covers politics and economics so
Elizabeth I feel like this went from
Theory to reality very quickly could
this app actually go away what is in
this measure very quickly Brad and you
know we’ve been talking so much about
this possibility of could Tik Tok
actually be banned it’s been back and
forth for years but the fact is we’re
closer to that becoming a reality now
than we have ever been but it’s still
far away the Y’s are 79 the Nays are 18
the provision in the law that was signed
by President Biden basically gives Tik
Tok N9 months to force a sale from its
Chinese owner remember Tik Tok is owned
by bite dance which is a company based
in China there have been concerns from
lawmakers and this escalated pretty
quickly in the past couple of months
that because Tik tok’s owned by a
Chinese company the Chinese government
can get access to Americans data it can
manipulate Americans opinions possibly
spread misinformation propaganda
influence elections or have an undue
influence on so many as you say 170
million users this app is a spy balloon
in Americans phones it is a modern-day
Trojan Horse of the CCP used to surveil
and exploit America’s personal
information Tik Tok is a gun aimed at
Americans heads basically what the US
government in this law now is saying is
that Tik Tok needs to divest from that
Chinese company it has 9 months to do
that and then President Biden could
extend that for another 90 days so
basically what we’re looking at is a
year for this for sale to go through if
the sale doesn’t happen then the app
could be banned in the US now keep in
mind like it’s not like Tik tok’s just
going to disappear from your phone in a
year if this ban happens but what the
provision in the law says is that
basically the app couldn’t get updated
in the App Stores So eventually it just
wouldn’t work anymore and then web
servers couldn’t really host the app so
at some point that would mean that it’s
no longer usable and effectively would
be banned at that point I see I see like
you’re kind of restricting how it’s used
on on these devices exactly if they sell
who would they sell it to like I I keep
wondering what if no one wants to buy it
or what if they can’t find a price that
they agree on what happens well and
really the question is about the price
because if you ask any company whether
it’s a big consumer company or a tech
company a lot of people would like to
buy Tik Tok it is an incredibly valuable
asset it has 170 million users who are
glued to the platform it has the data on
those users and it has this algorithm
that is incredibly valuable because the
algorithm keeps people there it keeps
people creating content all the time Tik
Tok allows me that unique ability to you
know just go and be myself in front of a
large audience and have people support
my business because they like who I am
and what I’m about when you talk to
analysts who are looking at this
possibility of a sale some of the
biggest names that they throw out are
big tech companies like Oracle or
Microsoft Oracle could be an obvious
buyer because it already works with Tik
Tok to host some of those data servers
remember this is a point Tik tok’s been
making that it has a lot of its servers
already in the US and Oracle is actually
the company that it works with on that
so that could make sense you also have
out there the possibility of a Walmart I
mean for a big consumer company that’s
also doing a lot of e-commerce maybe
they would want access to all of that
digital gold basically that Tik Tok has
the question really is can any of those
companies pay the price one analyst I
talked to said he thinks that Tik Tok
right now is valued at about a hundred
billion dollar that’s a number that a
lot of people thr around 100 Bill 100
billion 100 billion with a B that is
massive that is a lot of cash to put
forward so it would take a pretty big
company to be able to put that kind of
money forward the other option is let’s
say a group of companies get together
the former treasury secretary and your
former president Trump Steve minuchin
has proposed this idea of a Consortium
basically a bunch of investors come
together put up the capital and then
they kind of like co-own Tik Tock the
issue with this sale and so even if you
have someone who has that much money the
question would still be is would the
Chinese government allow it because why
would the Chinese government want to
give up this incredibly valuable
algorithm and they’ve basically
suggested so far they don’t want to give
it up so then if China tries to block a
sale is there a way that maybe a company
could buy Tik Tok without buying the
algorithm so could you buy the brand all
the users the data but not actually buy
what its kind of crown jewel is maybe
that’s something that China would allow
is there a way that the company could go
public through an IPO that wouldn’t mean
that another company has to pay all this
money so there’s options that are being
floated out there but in the interim
there’s going to be this kind of legal
battle where Tik Tock is now saying Brad
they want to fight this this whole law
is illegal make no mistake this is a ban
a ban on Tik Tok and a ban on you and
your voice they say that this is
unconstitutional and that the sale
shouldn’t even have to be a topic at the
first place yeah let’s talk about the
fight in court cuz that seems like the
thing that could push this well beyond
nine months perhaps I mean what was is
the argument from Tik Tok and I guess
could China tell its parent company like
nope don’t don’t do it don’t let them do
it so Tik Tok signaled yesterday that it
will file a lawsuit challenging this
Force sale and it has yet to do that
that’ll probably come out within a
couple of weeks it’s actually ironic
because the freedom of expression on Tik
Tok reflects the same American values
that make the United States a beacon of
Freedom that will then take some time to
get litigated but most investors who are
keeping an eye on this say there’s no no
way that these conversations about a
sale or an IPO or anything like that
when it comes to how to get Tik Tok free
of that Chinese parent are going to
happen until this kind of legal battle
plays
out probably at least going to consume
the next couple of months I mean I think
the really important thing for users to
know for like people who are on Tik Tok
all the time every day is nothing’s
going to change in the app as this
litigation is going forward even if
there are talks behind the scenes about
a buyer that’s not going to change the
fact that at least for probably a year
the app’s going to stay as it is and
that’s something that Tik tok’s making a
point of saying too for now proceed as
planned don’t flee everything’s fine
we’re going to fight this right and if
you got companies that aren’t allowed to
buy it for antitrust reasons or whatever
you think that lowers the prices even
more which is why Tik Tok is saying like
you guys are forcing us into a fire sale
we’re not going to get anything for this
uh Elizabeth schy really helpful thank
you so much thanks so much
Brad okay one more quick break when we
come back it’s one of the heaviest
trophies in sports but it’s not weighing
on his mind anymore one last thing is
next this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney grind Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
woman killed at the very beginning of
her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around proba to
God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D will match that on
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use oh my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
power of the presidency oral arguments
begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
plus tornado severe weather the 10
states in the path more Americans turn
to World News Tonight with David mure
the most watched newscast on television
hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina and we’re
moms juggling tons of stuff every day
like all you moms out there and you know
what we love really love pop culture so
listen now to our new podcast pop
culture moms wherever you get your
podcast I’m Gio Bonitas covering the
collapse of the Francis Scott Key bridge
here in Maryland wherever the story is
we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
live and one last
thing yesterday Reggie Bush got a piece
of history back Bush steps outside 354
45 if you don’t remember before Reggie
Bush was a star running back in the NFL
back in the earlys he was a star running
back at USC and that’s Reggie Bush being
Reggie Bush he was part of what some
call the greatest championship game ever
played and in 2005 he won college
football’s highest honor the Heisman
Trophy Reggie Bush us but shortly after
reports started bubbling up that bush
and his family had accepted gifts from a
local agent like help with their debt
and a rental home they didn’t have to
pay for Bush denied any impropriety but
then this agent came out by name suing
him saying he had given the Bush family
almost
$300,000 and wanted it back all of this
would have made Bush ineligible to play
college ball at the time so after an
investigation arbitration and defamation
lawsuits the NCAA stripped USC of its
national championship and the Heisman
trust asked for their trophy back he
relented and sent it to them the NCAA
determined that his violations meant he
was ineligible to play in 2005 the year
he won well think about where we are
nowadays College athletes are allowed to
work with agents they’re allowed to get
endorsement deals some make far more
than what Bush was allegedly promised
gradually the tone around him shifted
I’m not giving up that hman if I was
Reggie Bush if there were cheating
that’s one thing the fact that a guy
made his his family a little more
comfortable and this is something this
we’re not talking about OJ Simpson here
another Heisman winner Johnny Manzel
said he wouldn’t have anything to do
with the award until Bush got his trophy
back well yesterday ESPN reported that
bush has been reunited with his Heisman
after 14 years the Heisman trust has
given him a key part of his legacy back
but this will set off more questions
like will the NCAA restore USC the
schools 2004 Championship does Bush
deserve to be treated by today’s
standards even if he did break the rules
at the time because even if rules are
unjust lots of other players conceivably
scrimped and saved to get by so does it
matter if he didn’t have to perhaps we
already have our answer after all the
original Trojans understood history is
always seen Through The Eyes of the
[Music]
Victor also when you see people lugging
around this Heisman Trophy it is
outrageously heavy looking like it looks
like you’re just carrying your teammate
they just cast in bronze I wonder how
much it cost to ship this thing back and
forth from New York to wherever it’s
going more on all these stories at ABC
news.com or the ABC News app I’m Brad
milky see you
[Music]
tomorrow tonight the Supreme Court takes
on the power of the presidency oral
arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
for immunity plus tornado severe weather
the 10 states in the path more Americans
turn to world news tonight with David
mure the most watched newscast on
television first thing in the morning
there’s a lot going on get another
Avalanche warning that’s up to catch you
up with what happened overnight a
dangerous ice storm is impacting the
morning commute what’s happening today
escalating tensions in the Middle East
what people are talking about the
migrant crisis fast straightforward with
some fun in between how does billionaire
sound sounds good to me the Moose
started chasing a dog first thing in the
morning America this morning America’s
number one early morning news on ABC
News live hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
and we’re moms juggling tons of stuff
every day like all you moms out there
and you know what we love really love
Pop Culture so listen now to our new
podcast pop culture moms wherever you
get your podcast we have a beautiful
young woman killed at the very beginning
of her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
to God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D name will match that scene
TI we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my KNE oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC can
you believe it it’s 25 years of
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here it’s lunchtime in America so what
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everything you need to know that sounds
pretty good your health your money
breaking news music and the of course
good food a third hour of GMA in the
afternoon so join us afterno for
everything you need to know I love that
me traveling with the president to the
US Mexico border I’m Mary Bruce wherever
the story is we’ll take you there you’re
streaming ABC News
live right now in America this morning
Israel Hamas War protesters clashing
with police on more college campuses
from California to Texas dozens of
arrests a top lawmaker threatening to
bring in the National Guard and now a
major deadline set for
tonight new indictments in the so-called
fake elector scheme after the 2020
presidential election the Trump allies
involved the former president named as
an unindicted co-conspirator plus a big
day for Trump today at the Supreme Court
our expert weighs in on Trump’s immunity
claim and the
impact the airline industry now resp
responding to new rules from the Biden
Administration that would force the
airlines to pay you back in cash if you
face bad delays or cancellations what
could come
next New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011 days
their message this morning the American
Tourist in the Caribbean now facing more
than a decade in prison for what was
found in his carryon plus a life saving
transplant like no other the
groundbreaking procedure that saved a
dying grandmother and she’s only in the
third
grade but she and her violin are taking
the World by
storm from ABC news in New York this is
America this morning good Thursday
morning everyone I’m ran and Aly and I’m
Andrew dibert we begin with new unrest
overnight at college campuses Across the
Nation yeah crowds protesting the Israel
Hamas war clashed with police in Texas
and California at least 93 people have
been arrested at USC and dozens more
have been arrested at the University of
Texas and today a major deadline at
another campus where these protests
first escalated last
week more Chaos on college campuses
across the
country at the University of Texas at
Austin Police clashing with Pro
Palestinian protesters
dozens arrested as officers used horses
to disperse students some nearly
crashing into our reporter on the scene
no what are you doing what are you
doing at the University of Southern
California tense moments as police
confronted protesters after tearing down
tents officers in riot gear marching
onto campus surrounding and arresting
protesters who refus to
leave protests also cropping up at Brown
and Harvard where students protesting
the war in Gaza are demanding the
university divest from
[Applause]
Israel at colia where this wave of
Israel Hamas War protests began last
week the clock is ticking down to
tonight’s deadline to end the protests
on campus myself my peers my colleagues
my friends we’re not going to stop we’re
not going to rest we will stand here
until the University divests from
Israeli aparti and their genocidal
campaign in Gaza protests have been
marred by anti-semitic hate speech and
violence driven in some cases officials
say by outside non-student agitators one
officer was assaulted with a water jug
at cow poy Humbolt in Northern
California that school now closed
through the weekend house Speaker Mike
Johnson is threatening to pull Federal
funding for schools that don’t create
safe environments for Jewish students he
visited Columbia yesterday we just can’t
allow this kind of hatred and an
anti-Semitism to flourish on our
campuses they have chased down Jewish
students they have mocked them and
reviled them they have shouted racial
epithets Johnson later speaking with our
Lindsey Davis but for people who are
just saying we simply don’t like the way
the Palestinians are being treated and
killed that’s a different conversation
have that conversation have a debate we
believe in the free expression of ideas
and the free Marketplace of ideas that
is not what is happening here they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from exercising
their freedom that’s the limit that’s
the line Johnson also suggested the
National Guard could be used if needed
to break up the protest
the White House said it condemns
anti-Semitism but said free speech on
college campuses is important the other
big story this morning new indictments
in a so-called fake elector scheme after
the 2020 election former president Trump
is named as an unindicted co-conspirator
ABC’s M win has the details on this m
good morning Ranna and good morning
Arizona is now the fourth state where
allies of former president Trump have
been charged with trying to keep him in
power this morning seven attorneys or
Aids affiliated with former president
Trump appear to be indicted in Arizona
over alleged efforts to overturn the
2020 election in that state they include
Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows Attorney John
Eastman and Christina Bob the Republican
National Committee senior Council for
election Integrity the indictment makes
references to those affiliated with
Trump but does not name them Arizona’s
attorney general says the names will be
unredacted after each is served the
indictment Arizona’s election was free
and fair the people of Arizona elected
President Biden unwilling to accept this
fact the defendants charged by the state
grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
the lawful transfer of the presidency
the indictment does name 11 alleged fake
electors accused of submitting a
document to Congress falsely declaring
that Trump had won Arizona the charges
include fraud forgery and conspiracy
Trump is named as unindicted
co-conspirator one in the case which
claims Trump and his allies schemed to
prevent the lawful transfer of the
presidency the Trump campaign calls the
indictment another example of Democrats
weaponization of the legal system Trump
was also named an unindicted
co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
Republicans are charged with illegally
trying to replace electoral votes for
Biden with electoral votes for Trump
meanwhile today the Supreme Court hears
arguments over whether Trump can be
prosecuted in his federal election
interference case stemming from the
January 6 Riot Trump argues he has
absolute immunity over criminal
prosecution for any official acts as
president on the theory that just like
with civil immunity presidents need to
be able do to do their jobs without
worrying about being sued presidents
need to be able to do their jobs without
worrying about being indicted and so
he’s raised this primarily in the
January 6 case the Supreme Court’s
decision could have implications on some
of Trump’s other cases as well what’s at
stake is first of all the the various
cases pending against Donald Trump in
which he’s raised the question of
criminal immunity that includes all
three of those that have not gone to
trial the January 6 case the maralago
case and the Georgia case because for
all of those for at least part of the
time he was
President well arguments are heard at
the Supreme Court former president Trump
will be in a New York courtroom for his
hush money trial former National
Inquirer publisher David pecker will be
back on the stand Andrew M thank you
house lawmakers in Arizona have voted to
repeal a near total ban on abortions
after three Republicans crossed party
lines to pass the bill it now heads to
the state senate if the law which dates
all the way back to 1864 is repealed
Arizona will revert to a 15-week
abortion ban meanwhile the Supreme Court
yesterday heard arguments on whether
federal law can override State abortion
bans if a woman’s health is at risk the
justices appeared divided a ruling is
expected in June now to your money in
the airline industry responding to new
rules from the Biden Administration that
would force the airlines to pay you back
in cash when you face bad delays or
cancellations here’s ABC’s Andrea
Fuji this morning airlines are fighting
back against new rules that will soon
require them to refund passengers for
certain flights that are canceled or
delayed the US transportation department
announced the new policy yesterday that
will require Airlines give automatic
cash refunds within seven days when a
flight is canceled for any reason
delayed by more than 3 hours for
domestic travel and more than 6 hours
for international travel or if the
airline changes any of your airports
adds connections or downgrades your seat
I think for you know the average flyer
um it’d be really good beneficial
holding the uh airlines more accountable
under current regulations the airlines
decide how long a delay must last before
triggering refunds Transportation
secretary Pete Budaj says that era is
over this isn’t just about enforcing
when something goes wrong it’s making it
less likely something would go wrong in
the first place but the trade group
representing the airlines argues
customer satisfaction and air travel are
at an all-time high and air fairs are at
an all-time low when adjusted for
inflation they say refund complaints
have fallen sharply since 2020 with $43
billion in refunds since then and they
argue this new policy will add confusion
for consumers reduction in choice and a
decline in competition which
historically drives up prices the Biden
Administration argues otherwise this
will build confidence in air travel at a
time when Airlines need to do more to
secure passengers trust and there are
more ways to get a refund if your
checked luggage isn’t delivered within
12 hours for your domestic travel or
your Wi-Fi doesn’t work on the flight
Airlines have 6 months to comply with
new rules ranan Andrew Andrea thank you
for that a milestone today in Baltimore
a new shipping channel is opening where
the wreckage of the Francis Scott Key
bridge used to be it will reopen the
city’s port to 80% of the vessel traffic
it handled before last month’s bridge
collapse the next challenge is freeing
the cargo ship that hit the bridge by
cutting 5,000 tons of steel time now for
your Thursday weather
this is what’s left of a freight train
that derailed about 200 miles west of
Dallas Texas during a storm winds up to
60 M an hour blew the cars off the rails
but no one was hurt more severe storms
are expected across Texas and into the
plains tonight through Friday and a
second system this weekend could bring
damaging winds hail and tornadoes from
Texas to Chicago checking today’s high
temperatures 50s in the Northeast and
Upper Midwest 70s and 80s in the South
94 in South
Texas coming up a new fight to lower the
price of a popular weight loss drug also
ahead a life-saving transplant like no
other the groundbreaking procedure that
just saved a dying grandmother and later
the 8-year-old and her violin on the
world stage
[Music]
we have a beautiful young woman killed
at the very beginning of her life what
happens when the interrogation helps put
the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
around probably to God until years later
when the real killer steps into the box
the tough question here is what’s the
chance your D name will match that
scene we have your DNA
theine what did you use my ni oh my God
the interrogation
Monday on ABC tonight the Supreme Court
takes on the power of the presidency
oral arguments begin in Donald Trump’s
bid for immunity plus tornado severe
weather the 10 states in the path more
Americans turn to World News Tonight
with David mure the most watched
newscast on television Sunday night
people think they really know you what
do you think of the biggest
misconception about
you Michael straan John bonjovi I’m a
rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
on
EC this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC Whenever Wherever news breaks
it’s so important to always remember
that lives are changed here in London in
Buffalo yaldi Texas Edinburgh Scotland
reporting from Rolling Fork Mississippi
Ukrainian refugees here in warong we’re
heading to a small community outside of
Mexico City getting you behind the
stories as they happen ABC News live
Prime we’ll take you there stream ABC
News live week nights wherever you
stream your news only on ABC News live
right now there’s just so much happening
in our world so much at stake at the
start of every morning and that’s why at
Good Morning America we’re right here
and we got you we got you we got
you who who pretty intense scene there
we’re back now with a bumpy Landing in
Los Angeles uh a lansa 747 bounced twice
during what became an aborted landing at
LAX Tuesday the jumbo jet then circled
the airport and touched down without
incident a short time later it’s not
clear what led to the hard Landing glad
everyone’s okay the company that makes
OIC and wovi is facing a senate
investigation over what critics describe
as outrageous prices Senator Bernie
Sanders says the popular drugs which are
used to treat diabetes and obesity are
unaffordable for millions of Americans
but they are dramatically cheaper in
other countries but drug makers say it’s
easy to oversimplify the complexities
involved in pricing doctors here in New
York say a groundbreaking new surgery
has saved the life of a Dying
grandmother and now she’s speaking out
just weeks ago 54-year-old Lisa Pisano
was Gravely ill suffering from heart
failure and kidney disease but today I
got more energy I feel um energized I
feel like I’m ready to go the New Jersey
grandmother is being hailed as a Pioneer
after her doctors performed a combined
heart pump and pig kidney trans surgery
whenever you do that um when you combine
things that are just on The Cutting Edge
um you know of the future um you just
don’t know how it’s going to turn out
the combination surgery a first but Lisa
is not the first person to receive the
Revolutionary kidney transplant she’s
the second just last month a 62-year-old
man in Massachusetts with end-stage
kidney disease became the first person
to receive a genetically edited Pig
kidney and he’s now home recovering both
patients now providing hope for the more
than 100,000 people in the US waiting on
a transplant list no one will have to
die waiting for someone else to die so
they can be saved I’m getting stronger
and stronger every day um
and it just feels the right thing that I
did doctors say Lisa has no signs of
organ rejection and they feel good about
her long-term prognosis we love to hear
it yeah coming up the American Tourist
in the Caribbean facing 12 years in
prison for bullets found in his luggage
also ahead New Hope for the hostages the
parents of a young American held by
Hamas Express relief and concern seeing
new video of their son after 2011
days whenever news breaks we are here in
Israel a nation at war after that brutal
surprise attack by Hamas on the ground
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America’s number one streaming news this
is the first time you are sitting down
like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt cartridge what were you thinking
that moment when you felt that my life
is over right here you’ve just been told
you’re going to be 9 years in one of the
worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
woman killed at the very beginning of
her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
to God until years later when the killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your DNA will
match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC we’re back with a Caribbean vacation
nightmare for an Oklahoma father airport
security in Turks and Kos found four
hunting bullets in Ryan Watson’s
carry-on bag he says it was a mistake
but he now faces up to 12 years in
prison he’s required to stay in Turks
and Kos until his next court hearing in
June stay strong that is the message
from the parents of an American hostage
held by Hamas seen on video for the
first time since
October this morning the world is now
seeing hirh Goldberg pollen alive more
than 200 days after the American Israeli
citizen was taken hostage during the
October 7th attack Goldberg po speaking
in Hebrew hersh’s hair is shaved and
he’s missing part of his left arm the
24-year-old says I am the son of
Jonathan and Rachel I was born in
California and quote Mom Dad Libby Orly
I love you very much I miss you very
much I think of you every day that I’m
here I need you to stay strong for me
and not stop fighting it’s unclear when
Hamas recorded the video which her’s
parents gave ABC News permission to
show her was seen at the music festival
in Israel that came under attack being
pushed into this truck by Hamas
terrorists his parents say hirs was
hiding in a
shelter when militants threw grenades
inside severely wounding his arm just
days after their son was taken captive
last fall hs’s mother said this to David
mure we are every person’s
nightmare that’s who we
are anyone who’s a parent anyone who who
is a mother or has a mother can imagine
what I’m going through and now a mix of
both relief and worry seeing a video of
HS today is overwhelming we’re relieved
to see him alive but we are also
concerned about his health and
[Applause]
wellbeing the video of HS prompted
protesters to take to the streets in
Jerusalem last night demanding the
government do more to bring home the
hostages about 130 are still believed to
be held by Hamas pers if you can hear
this we heard your voice today for the
first time in 201 days and if you can
hear us we love you stay strong
survive talks for a potential hostage
deal between Israel and Hamas have
stalled a Hamas official yesterday said
the group will lay down its weapons if a
two-state solution is implemented coming
up the insects prompting calls to 9
plus it’s a skateboarding stunt that is
really out of this world we’ll show it
to
you we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around praise to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your D will
match that out
scene we you have your DNA at the scene
what did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC Sunday
night people think they really know you
what do you think of the biggest
misconception about
you Michael straan John bonjovi I’m a
rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
on EBC tonight the Supreme Court takes
on the power of the presidency oral
arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
for immunity plus tornado severe weather
the 10 states in the path more Americans
turn to World News Tonight with David
mure the most watched newscast on
television why do so many people start
their day here from ABC News this is
start here to be in the know and get a
different take on the day’s top stories
a lot of news today so let’s get into it
listen now to the Daily News podcast
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here a BC News make it your daily first
listen now that’s a part of the story I
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first time you are sitting down like
this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking of that moment when you felt
that my life is over right here you’ve
just been told you’re going to be 9
years in one of the wor worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on
ABC reporting from Miami Florida I’m
Victor okendo wherever the story is
we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
[Music]
live time to check the pulse and we
begin with a Not So Beautiful Noise in
fact police in some parts of the
Southeastern us say they are now getting
tons of calls about
this it is loud it is male cicas trying
to attract a mate police urge please do
not call them to complain next some
football dreams are about to come true
the NFL draft is tonight in Detroit with
the number one pick the Bears are
expected to choose Caleb Williams the
quarterback who won the Heisman at USC
Jaden Daniels the quarterback at LSU
also won the Heisman he’s expected to be
chosen second by the commanders he spoke
to our will
Reed do you have in your mind and your
heart a team that you definitely want to
go to I mean I kind of do can’t I’m not
going to disclose that but kind of do we
I’ll see what happens how it plays out
we will see tonight more from Daniels on
Good Morning America as well and watch
the draft right here on ABC next a
violin Prodigy only eight years old yes
she’s eight and she’s already played
Carnegie Hall
[Music]
that is Ria Kang she’s from New Jersey
she just won a prestigious competition
in
Europe I love violin because I can touch
people’s hearts with the um beauty of
music I really want to become a great
violinist well she’s well on her way she
touched our hearts finally a truly
highflying stunt this is skateboarder
Brendan Hayward from LA doing his thing
on a ramp 8,000 ft in the sky over
Brazil the ramp was suspended from a hot
air balloon he finished his trick by
free falling back onto his board with a
parachute top headlines
next Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new of
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John Bon Joi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around promise to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the the Box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
DNA will match that off
scene we have your DNA at
theine what did you use my ni oh my God
the interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
between how does billionaire sound
sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
America this morning America’s number
one early morning news on ABC News
live this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you you
think in that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on
ABC checking more top stories tensions
are rising at campuses all across the
country nearly aund protesters rallying
against the war in Gaza were arrested at
USC last night and dozens of pro pales
inian demonstrators were arrested at the
University of Texas overseas Israeli
forces launched new attacks in southern
Lebanon saying they hit about 40 Terror
targets an Israeli official claims half
of the Hezbollah commanders there have
now been killed Rudy Giuliani and former
white house chief of staff Mark Meadows
appeared to have been indicted in a fake
elector scheme in Arizona along with
other Trump allies Trump himself was
named as an unindicted co-conspirator
the federal government is now requesting
bird flu testing for cattle the move
affects cows being transported between
states it comes after inactive traces of
the virus were found in some milk
samples today’s weather rain and snow
from the Northwest to the Rockies severe
storms in Texas and the plains rain
across the nation’s midsection finally a
good deed is sparking an unlikely
friendship Danny new
explains and right after he shoots a
T-Rex when former reality TV star Matt
busbus first met young Kelvin here he
was a little startled in my eyes and I
see a kid that’s about my height it was
this past Good Friday as you can see on
this security footage from a coffee shop
in Baton Rouge Matt decided to go
outside while he was waiting for his Joe
and pray for a little bit but that’s
when Kelvin who was waiting with his dad
at the Eye Care office next door noticed
Matt praying and I said excuse me sir
are you homeless cuz if you are here is
a dollar Kelvin walked over and offered
him a buck wasn’t that much but it could
still help him get something Matt was
touched and instead offered to buy
Kelvin breakfast if his dad was okay
with it I’m not buzz but what Kelvin did
not know was that Matt is the former
star of the A&E show country bucks and
has become a very successful businessman
in the hunting industry our station in
Baton Rouge wbrz arranged for their
first reunion recently where Kelvin
learned this news on camera you’re on
Google like you’re that famous I’m on
Google I would say I’m not that famous
though you can L me a coup of looks
right T-Rex well Matt could and chose to
do a whole lot more than that at his
store you saw Kelvin getting to
virtually hun in earlier Matt told
Kelvin he could run around for 40
seconds go and grab as much merch as he
wanted did you really pick out this bike
yes including this $2,000 bike but Matt
didn’t mind because I guess you can’t
really put a price on inspiration this
generation that’s coming up could if
they’re more like Kelvin it can change
the world
I give you a dollar you give me a $2,000
bike clearly Kelvin is also going to be
a great businessman one day guys we
could take some tips that’s we can
that’s what’s making news in America
this morning by the way tonight’s draft
87 Central right here on
ABC ABC News America’s number one news
[Music]
source hi I’m d m today on ABC News live
first and unprecedented day in American
history a former president and current
presidential candidate faces four
concurrent and consequential legal
battles all centered on charges of
corrupting elections the Supreme Court
is set to hear arguments over whether
presidents are immune to prosecution for
crimes committed while in office the
case could have major implications for
the special council’s election
interference case against former
president Trump overnight in Arizona
Trump became unindicted co-conspirator
number one in an election fraud case
that has produced indictment for his
former lawyer one of his current lawyers
and his white house chief of staff Trump
was also named an unindicted
co-conspirator in a similar Michigan
case yesterday as well and Trump returns
to a Manhattan Criminal Court today for
his hush money trial over his alleged
efforts to interfere in the 2016
election we have Team coverage of
Trump’s legal battles and what they
could mean for the race for the White
House and we be been with the Supreme
Court set to hear arguments over
presidential immunity the issue and
question is whether former president
Trump should be immun from Criminal
prosecution for his alleged efforts to
overturn the 2020 election because he
was president at the time Trump’s
attorneys argue the presidency can’t
function if the president can face
criminal charges claiming it would tie
the hands of future presidents so far
two lower courts have rejected those
arguments warning it would collapse the
system of separated Powers by putting a
president Above the Law now the Supreme
Court has to decide whether or not to
overrule them senior National
correspondent in ABC News live anchor
Terry Moran joins me now from the
Supreme Court for more Terry how do you
expect the attorneys on each side here
to make their case to the Justices today
vigorously Diane and you just summed up
the Trump case pretty well they are
going to say that the presidency cannot
function if presidents are always
worried always looking over their
shoulder at potential prosecutions for
official acts that they will be
paralyzed they won’t be able to act
fully swiftly efficiently for the good
of the country and they will point to a
couple of things first president’s
already have absolute immunity from
civil lawsuits you can’t sue a president
for an official act that the president
took and that gives the president the
leeway to act they saying this is the
same thing the other thing is that they
say there are plenty of cases where
presidents you know have to go right up
to the edge of the law or beyond for
example uh President Obama ordered the
killing of an American citizen Anor Al
alaki in Yemen without any due process
of law no Fourth Amendment no Fifth
Amendment he based it on legal
authorization to use Force against
terrorism is that lawful could a
prosecutor pursue him could a prosecutor
pursue George Bush for his interrogation
techniques that he authorized so there’s
a real live question in there you can
expect uh the just the uh Trump lawyers
to argue that on the other hand the
argument from uh the Justice bar special
Council Jack Smith is very simple
presidents are not above the law if they
commit a crime they must face trial
Terry how significant is the timing of
this case with less than 6 months until
election day well the timing is crucial
but the court isn’t going to pay
attention to that they they don’t
operate on a political calendar they say
and they shouldn’t tether their opinions
to the desires of one partisan party or
the other but the timing is critical if
they make a swift decision in this case
one that would allow it to move forward
there are various permutations of how
they could decide this but if they make
a swift case decision that makes this
case go forward there could be a trial
before the November election that would
give voters the opportunity to decide
for themselves how the jury came out
with a verdict in that case if not it
could be held till after the November
election and into a possible Trump
second term if he wins and if he wins he
could just kill this investigation and
take this case down altoe so a lot very
very high stakes mostly for the
Constitution and the separation of
powers but also for the voters as they
decide this election all right A lot of
people watching this one closely senior
National correspondent Terry Moran
thanks Terry
[Music]
former president Trump says he wanted to
attend those Supreme Court arguments but
the judge and his Manhattan criminal
trial said he has to be in that
courtroom today former National inquir
publisher David Pecker’s expected to
return to the stand and expand on his
claims of a scheme to catch and kill
negative stories about Trump during the
2016 election season including former
play by Playboy model Karen mcdougall’s
story of an affair with Trump meanwhile
Trump is now part of two more cases
related to election interference as an
un indicted co-conspirator ABC News
senior investigative correspondent Aon
kki has the
latest Donald Trump is UN indicted
co-conspirator one in a case out of
Arizona that said he and others schemed
to prevent the lawful transfer of the
presidency to keep Trump in office after
the 2020 election against the will of
Arizona’s voters the indictment names
Republican electors and references this
video from December 2020 when they met
at party headquarters to certify the
election for Trump even though Joe Biden
won the state Donald J Trump of the
State of Florida number of votes 11 the
Arizona indictment also charges seven
others including Rudy Giuliani former
white house chief of staff Mark Meadows
and Trump’s senior adviser Boris epin
with trying to declare Trump the 2020
winner contrary to voter intent and the
law the people of Arizona elected
president Biden unwilling to accept this
fact the defendants charged by the state
grand jury allegedly schemed to prevent
the lawful transfer of the presidency
Trump has also been named an unindicted
co-conspirator in Michigan where 16
Republicans were charged with illegally
trying to replace electoral votes for
Biden in 2020 with electoral votes for
Trump he plans to bring his 2024
campaign to Michigan next week during a
day off from his criminal trial in New
York where publisher David pecker
returns to the witness stand to explain
how the national Inquirer ended up
paying Playboy model Karen McDougall
$150,000 to take her story of a
year-long sexual relationship with Trump
off the market Trump denied the affair
but by June 2016 pecker testified he was
serving as the eyes in ears of the Trump
campaign changing the national
inquirer’s business model from buying
stories to publish to buying stories to
bury if they were damaging to Trump’s
presidential
aspirations and Diane we are still
waiting on the judge here to decide
whether to hold Trump in contempt for
violating the gag order that ruling
could come at any time Diane senior
investigative correspondent Erin kki
thank you and I want to bring in ABC
News executive editorial producer John
santui for more on this John how
significant is it that Trump has now
been named an unindicted co-conspirator
in two more cases it’s just remarkable
right we would think that Donald Trump
is done with being added to any of the
case loads around the country but the
remarkable thing here is that Donald
Trump obviously we know what happened in
Georgia but to think that he’s part of
another case that we just learned about
last night in Arizona is remarkable and
you know take aside for a second Donald
Trump to think that his top advisers his
allies Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows borish
Epstein who Diane just to you know it’s
not a name not familiar to most of our
viewers this is a person that has worked
for Donald Trump since the 2016 campaign
again in 2020 brief stint in the white
house he’s current the guy currently the
person that is cesing a legal team for
all the different Trump cases and he’s
still on the Trump payroll one of the
other people that was indicted in this
case Christina Bob she was working on
some of the cases that involved Trump
over the last year she just left the
Trump campaign not saying goodbye she
just joined the RNC which obviously has
gone through a huge takeover by team
Trump now meanwhile in this hush money
case playing out in Manhattan today
former National inquir publisher David
pecker has already testified that he
agreed to this scheme to catch and kill
negative stories about then candidate
Trump and that that only agreement that
came agreement only came about once
Trump started running for president how
critical is that testimony to the
prosecution hugely critical because the
reality is that what they are doing and
we’ve seen this very slowly and
methodically they are building out this
relationship that Donald Trump David
pcker and Michael Cohen had they got a
little bit into the testimony earlier
this week about a former doorman at
Trump Tower that talked about an
illegitimate child that Trump allegedly
had story ended up not being true at all
however now they’re moving more into a
bigger case a bigger story this is Karen
McDougall and you know you have to
remember obviously this case the
indictment in the Manhattan Cas is about
Stormy Daniels but Karen McDougall is
the same story if you will an affair
with Donald Trump paid off by David
pcker for her silence and nevertheless
you know just shows that this was not a
one-time thing and the timeline of that
payment again leading up to the 2016
election the difference between the two
is the way in which the payment was
logged it was a direct payment dealt
with by the national inquir not a
reimbursement with Cohen and thus
there’s nothing about something in the
books Allah you know legal reimbursement
fees Etc which is why we get into a
business fraud claim in this case with
34 criminal counts so what are you
listening for when pecker takes the
stand again today so I’m listening for a
bunch of things I think that so much of
what he said the other day number one
just because he spoke and and of itself
was significant I’m listening for more
of the facts to show how close of a
relationship this was and I think there
was something really important the other
day that he said on the stand Diane
anytime I heard something about Trump or
the family we all had a deal I picked up
the phone and called Michael Cohen and
then we would come over and we talk out
how we would do this and he talked about
how it would be once a week occasionally
then it became every day we have not
gotten yet to the heart of the camp
campaign we haven’t gotten to the fall
of 2016 where so much happened that’s
what I want to see the intensity did it
pick up certainly seems like it did and
John I’m out of time but quickly we’re
also awaiting a ruling on former
president Trump potentially being held
in contempt for alleged gag order
violations what’s the latest on that
we’re waiting so this is going to be
something that judge Maran will probably
just post the docket we don’t think
we’ll see it in open court but
nevertheless it’s possible the reality
is Donald Trump right now prosecutors
want a $1,000 fine per violation they
have formally filed 10 mentioned in 11
so could be a $110,000 fine or as we’ve
know from our reporting the Secret
Service had conversations that if Donald
Trump was held in contempt of court and
put in jail for a small period of time
they’re ready if that happens remarkable
if it does all right John sanui thank
you and we will be following the story
and those Supreme Court oral arguments
all day long we will bring you the
latest right here on ABC News live
meanwhile law enforcement is cracking
down on growing anti-war protests on
college campuses across the country
universities from New York City to
Austin to Los Angeles and Austin Texas
are seeing a wave of demonstrations amid
the Israel Hamas War ABC’s Trevor alt is
at the University of Southern California
where police arrested more than 90
protesters the Nationwide movement of
Campus
demonstrations leading to sometimes
violent
clashes overnight at Emerson College in
Boston protesters attempting to form a
human wall to stop police moving in up
to a 100 protesters arrested
police at the University of Southern
California overnight arresting 93 people
while removing tents and clearing
protesters from a Gaza solidary Camp one
Precinct now full of Arrested protesters
these tense moments after a scuffle
between officers in riot gear and a pro
Palestinian
group University now closed to anyone
but students it makes me feel threatened
and intimidated and I think that the
anti-semitic rhetoric must be condemned
by the univers
an unauthorized protest breaking out at
the University of Texas in Austin no
what are you doing dozens arrested as
officers used horses to disperse crowds
some nearly crashing into our mura vial
who was on the scene a cameraman filming
the demonstration grabbed by police and
thrown to the
ground similar encampments springing up
at Brown University in
[Applause]
Harvard and then columia University
officials extending a deadline to remove
this large encampment to Thursday night
as negotiations with students continue
myself my peers my colleagues my friends
we’re not going to stop we’re not going
to rest we will stand here until the
University divests from Israeli
apartheid and their genocidal campaign
in
Gaza house Speaker Mike Johnson visiting
campus criticizing school officials for
allowing the continued demonstrations we
just can’t allow this kind of hatred in
any any ISM to flourish on our campuses
they have chased down Jewish students
they have mocked them and reviled them
they have shouted racial epithets the
speaker telling our lindsy Davis schools
could lose Federal funding they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from exercising
their freedom that’s the limit that’s
the
line and ABC’s Trevor alt joins me now
from the campus of USC in Los Angeles
with more Trevor I know it’s early there
now now but what has it been like on
campus these last few
days well like a lot of campuses Diane
it has been increasingly intense these
are not necessarily new demonstrations
but they continue to grow and also as
they are growing the police response is
growing too and even though this morning
the demonstrations have been cleared out
you heard in that report 93 people
arrested overnight here there’s still in
place these restrictions on who is even
allowed on USC’s campus students faculty
staff they all have to present a campus
ID before they are even allow loud here
having said that those restrictions
don’t necessarily mean it’s going to
stop people from coming out and
demonstrating I think it’s still very
likely you’re going to see even more
maybe even bigger demonstrations as
early as today
Diane now Trevor protesters say they’re
asking for these institutions to divest
from Israel what are you hearing from
demonstrators
there yeah it’s a kind of a combination
of of localized goals and also broader
goals as part of the larger movement so
here at USC you mentioned the divesting
from Israel but they also uh have that
big controversy about the valedictorian
the Muslim student who’s spoken out
against what’s happening in Gaza who has
been denied her chance to speak at the
graduation ceremony that’s also
something the demonstrators are talking
about but they also make it clear that
this is about more than simply USC’s
actions as is also the case with all of
these demonstrations on campuses across
the country it’s about more broadly
protesting the actions of the Israeli
military and supporting the people of
Gaza so while I think uh you might see
some kind of action from the University
that’s not a guarant guantee they might
not do anything I don’t know that if
they simply were to let the valid Coran
speak the demonstrations here might stop
I think just as could be the case
everywhere else you could continue to
see those larger demonstrations all
right Trevor Alton Los Angeles thanks
Trevor and the family of an Israeli
American hostage is speaking out after
seeing him in a newly released video
from Hamas the video shows a severely
injured hirh Goldberg Poland appearing
to speak under duress asking his family
to keep fighting and sending a message
to Israel ABC News foreign correspondent
Tom Sufi bur is in Jerusalem with
more
Shalom Goldberg poin more than 200 days
after the world saw American Israeli
hostage HH Goldberg pollen with his arm
badly injured put in the back of a
pickup truck and taken into
Gaza the First Clear Proof he survived
that deadly
attack H sitting upright appearing under
Jess with a shaven head and missing part
of his left arm blown off on October 7th
when terrorists threw grenades into a
shelter when he was trying to evade
capture hsh addressing the camera in
Hebrew saying mom dad liby and oie I
love you very much I miss you very much
and I think of you every day that I’m
here I need you to stay strong for me
and not stop fighting HS also demanding
the Israeli government do everything in
its power to set him free his parents
wanting the world to watch that video
we’re relieved to see him alive or but
we are also concerned about his health
and wellbeing as well as that of all of
the other hostages and all of those
suffering in this region pers if you can
hear this we heard your voice today for
the first time in 201 days and if you
can hear us I am telling you we are
telling you we love you stay strong
survive the video of HH spurring his
supporters onto the streets protesters
clashing with police overnight near
Israeli Prime Minister netanyahu’s
residence well protesters are out on the
streets tonight in Jerusalem they’re
blocking the road you can see the police
are trying to drive them back these
people want a deal to set the hostages
free it’s thought around a 100 hostages
are still being held in Gaza hsh one of
five
Americans and Diane a bit on the wider
picture right now those hostage and
ceasefire negotiations appear to have
stalled and in fact the Israeli military
has made Advanced preparations to try
and move hundreds of thousands of
civilians out of Rafa in southern Gaza
with the Israeli government approving a
ground offensive and what it says is
hamas’s last stronghold there in the
coming weeks Diane Tom Sufi burd in
Jerusalem thank you coming up an
exclusive look at the Francis Scot Key
Bridge in Baltimore how cleanup efforts
are going as the port partially reopens
to ships
today and it’s an unprecedented day in
American history former president and
current presidential candidate Trump
faces four concurrent and consequential
legal batt battles all centered on
charges of corrupting elections Supreme
Court Justices will be weighing the
power of the presidency and you’ll be
able to listen to the or oral arguments
right here on ABC News live starting at
10: a.m. eastern meanwhile Trump returns
to a New York City courtroom for the
criminal hush money trial against him we
have Team coverage all morning long stay
with
us tonight the Supreme Court takes on
the power of the presidency oral argu
uments begin in Donald Trump’s bid for
immunity plus tornado severe weather the
10 states in the path more Americans
turn to World News Tonight with David
mure the most watched newscast on
television this is the first time you
are sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here he just been
told you’re going to be 9 years in one
of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
woman killed at the very beginning of
her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
to God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D will match that
seene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC this
is not about parents who just let their
kid watch violent movies play violent
video games this is about parents who
neglected their son ignored his cries
for help then bought him a gun the first
parents in America to be charged in a
school shooting they purchased that gun
for him and bragged about it you don’t
get to walk away from that that’s a
criminal act sins of the parents the
crumbly trials the opposite of love is
not hate it’s just being ignored only on
Hulu hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina and
we’re moms juggling tons of stuff every
day like all you moms out there and you
know what we love really love Pop
Culture so listen now to our new podcast
pop culture moms wherever you get your
podcast
[Music]
welcome back to ABC News live it is an
unprecedented day in American history
former president Donald Trump is facing
four concurrent and consequential legal
battles all centered on charges of
election corruption we have full
coverage from DC to New York City just
ahead but first here’s a look at some of
the other headlines we’re watching today
we’re getting an exclusive firsthand
look at the massive operation to clear
the wreckage from the Francis Scott Key
bridge collaps officials in Baltimore
say 80% of ships will be able to pass in
and out of the port Port starting today
including cruise ships the city says
it’s on track to have the port fully
reopened by the end of May and starting
today it will cost you more to visit
Venice the tourist hotspot is now the
first and only city in the world to
charge visitors an entrance fee the city
says the $536 fee is designed to help
control crowds in the Italian city about
40,000 people visit Venice every day
almost double the City’s
population and football star Reggie Bush
is uniting with his Heisman Trophy the
former USC Superstar and Super Bowl
champion won college football’s highest
honor in 2005 but had to Forfeit it in
2010 after the NCAA sanctioned the
school claiming Bush received illegal
benefits while he was a student bush has
consistently denied those accusations
the Heisman trust is reinstating Bush’s
award and says it is thrilled to have
him quote back in the
family coming up it is now or never in
Detroit the NFL draft is tonight we’re
going to hear from Jaden Daniels
expected to be a top pick ahead of the
big night and where he’s rumored to be
going and we have Team coverage of
president Trump’s historic legal battles
all morning long Supreme Court Justices
will be weighing the power of the
presidency and you can listen to those
oral arguments right here on ABC News
live starting at 10: a.m. eastern
meanwhile Trump returns to the New York
City courtroom in the criminal hush
money trial against him who’s taking the
stand today and what it all means for
the former president stay with us
[Music]
this is the first time you are sitting
down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts prer
in Russia Wednesday night May 1st on ABC
we have a beautiful young woman killed
at the very beginning of her life what
happens when the interrogation helps put
the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
around promise to God until years later
when the real killer steps into the box
the tough question here is what’s the
chance your D will match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC can
you believe it it’s 25 years of
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bed tonight the Supreme Court takes on
the power of the presidency oral
arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
for immunity plus tornado severe weather
the 10 states in the pth more Americans
turn to World News Tonight with David
mure the most watched newscast on
television hi I’m Andy and I’m Sabrina
and we’re moms juggling tons of stuff
every day like all you moms out there
and you know what we love really love
Pop Culture so listen now to our new
podcast pop culture moms wherever you
get your
podcasts I’m Jaclyn Lee here in Arizona
on the front lines of the abortion
battle wherever the story is we’ll take
you there you’re streaming ABC News
live welcome back to ABC News live first
some dreams are about to come true in
Detroit today when the NFL draft kicks
off in the Motor City the Chicago Bears
have the first pick and are expected to
take USC’s Caleb Williams LSU
quarterback Jaden Daniels is also at the
top of the draft board will reev sat
down with the Heisman winner and
projected second pick ahead of the big
night Jaden Daniels again Jaden Daniels
touchdown Jaden Daniels is the oddson
favorite to go number two in tonight’s
NFL draft do you have in your mind and
your heart as a team that you definitely
want to go to I mean I kind of do can’t
I’m not going to disclose that but kind
of of do we all see what happens how it
plays out the Washington Commander
likely to take the Heisman winner out of
LSU with the second overall pick my
agent uh he’s hearing stuff from uh
different teams and and like trying to
predict where I go but nobody knows
where you’re actually going to go until
uh until it’s that time to actually get
that call what’s the experience been
like with the
other draft class guys being here I’m
happy for other quarterbacks here
obviously me Caleb and Drake and be able
to battle against see the guys that you
battled against and be able to enjoy
that experience with them um enjoy the
moment of you know hearing your name
call or being part of the drag class
being in Detroit together um and connect
with guys that you usually don’t you
know see too much but but you know so
it’s it’s awesome tomorrow morning
you’re in the NFL yeah you got to go
what are you going to be doing yeah
going to the team um obviously doing all
that and then flying back uh celebrating
my family there and then I get to work
wherever he’s drafted Daniels knows what
he wants to accomplish as a pro
hopefully I could be a an idol you know
to to Young African-Americans that
aspire to be a quarterback or just in
general you know somebody look up to
hopefully I can be a role model to them
Daniels will have a whole big group with
him here to celebrate tonight but two
people he’ll be missing are his paternal
grandparents who passed away within a
month of each other from covid a few
years ago and Daniel says that he misses
them every day and that they’ll be with
him here in spirit tonight and always
Diane will reev in Detroit thank you and
you can watch the first round of the NFL
draft tonight at 8:00 pm Eastern on ABC
and
ESPN coming up testimony resumes in the
criminal hush money trial against former
president Trump as the Supreme Court is
about to hear arguments in his case for
presidential immunity we have Team
coverage of both and we’ll have those
oral arguments live at 10:00 a.m.
eastern stay with us we’ll be right back
what does it take to be the most watched
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America we are part of an operation is
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the flag not carry any how important it
made the USA great work hi appr thank
it’s David David I’m David I know you
are you every night World News Tonight
with David mure is America’s most
watched newscast this is the first time
you are sitting down like this to tell
your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC this is not about parents who
just let their kid watch violent movies
play violent video games this is about
parents who neglected their son ignored
his cries for help then bought him a gun
the first parents in America to be
charged in a school shooting they
purchased that gun for him and bragged
about it you don’t get to walk away from
that that’s a criminal act sins of the
parents the crumbly trials the opposite
of Love Is not hate it’s just being
ignored only on Hulu Sunday night people
think they really know you what do you
think of the biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special going start singing by the
way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael Strahan John Bon Joi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
JY halfway there Sunday night on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
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fast straightforward with some fun in
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[Music]
live hi I’m D today on ABC News live
first an unprecedented day in American
history a former president and current
presidential candidate faces four
concurrent and consequential legal
battles all centered on charges of
corrupting elections the Supreme Court
is set to hear arguments over whether
presidents are immune to prosecution for
crimes committed while in office the
case could have major implications for
the special council’s election
interference case against former
president Trump and overnight in Arizona
Trump became unindicted co-conspirator
number one in an election fraud case
that has produced indictments for his
former lawyer one of his current lawyers
and his white house chief of staff Trump
was also named an unindicted
co-conspirator in a similar Michigan
case yesterday and Trump returns to a
Manhattan Criminal court today for his
hush money trial over his alleged
efforts to interfere in the 2016
election we have Team coverage of
Trump’s legal battles and what they
could mean for the race for the White
House and we begin with the Supreme
Court set to hear these oral arguments
over presidential immunity the issuing
question is whether former president
Trump should be immune from Criminal
prosecution for his alleged efforts to
overturn the 2020 election because he
was president at the time Trump’s
attorneys argue that the presidency
can’t function if the president can face
criminal charges claiming it would tie
the hands of future presidents so far
two lower courts have rejected those
arguments warning it would collapse the
system of separated Powers by putting a
president Above the Law now the Supreme
Court has to decide whether to overrule
them let’s bring in senior National
correspondent in ABC News live anchor
Terry Moran for more on that Terry
what’s at stake for former president
Trump in today’s arguments well his his
freedom at the end of the road of any
criminal case which is what he faces the
question question is can a president be
prosecuted uh criminally for acts that
he undertook while in office Trump says
everything he did uh at the heart of
this case which were his efforts to
overturn the 2020 election were part of
his official duties he says he was
trying to ensure election integrity
that’s his argument and his lawyers will
be in court saying as long as the
president is acting within the Outer
Perimeter of His official duties he
cannot be prosecuted no president can be
prosecuted for the reason you exact said
which is that they say it would render
the president too weak always looking
over his shoulder a potential
prosecutions brought by partisan enemies
and he wouldn’t be acting or she
wouldn’t be acting in the full range of
powers for the good of the country
that’s the argument that Trump’s uh that
Trump’s lawyers are going to make it’s
going to be a hot bench in there there a
bunch of people are going to Pepper
these lawyers with questions on that
because it is really a test of the
boundaries of the the power of the
president and the reach of the rule of
law it is an unprecedented argument that
I think the court is going to have
trouble with Terry how do you expect the
attorneys on each side to make their
case here well very vigorously uh
obviously as I said the the Trump
lawyers better be ready for a lot of
very skeptical questions this is an
extraordinary claim they do have you
know some grounding presidents do need
freedom of of movement to act for the
good of the country swiftly and fully
and if they are concern about potential
partisan prosecutions then that might
crimp their ability to work for the
people that will be their argument and
they will point to things like perhaps
President George W Bush’s enhanced
interrogations which were called torture
by some people a violation of American
law President Obama ordering the killing
of an American citizen under uh the
authorization to use military force but
without any uh without any due process
of law so they do have grounds on the
other hand the argument from from the
justice department special counsel Jack
Smith’s brought this case is going to be
very simple presidents are not above the
law if they commit a crime they can be
prosecuted the world won’t come to an
end not all presidents commit crimes uh
and they will say that this is something
that for the sake of separation of
powers for the sake of the Integrity of
the government the court must find that
presidents are not above the law all
right Terry Moran thank you and former
president Trump’s allies have rallied to
support his legal challenges uh saying
that those challenges are threatening to
derail his bid for the White House
Republican Congressman Byron Donalds of
Florida joins me now for more on that
Congressman thank you for coming on we
appreciate your time you know former
president Trump’s attorneys are arguing
the president has to have immunity for
the office to function properly but
these lower courts rejected that the DC
circuit ruled that that would collapse
the system of separated Powers by
placing the president Beyond reach of
the other three of the other branches
why should the Supreme Court overturn
that ruling you’re an attorney you’re
backing Trump here walk me through why
you think the presidential immunity part
is more important than the separation of
powers well first of all let me just say
I’m not in all of the district circuit
courts of the federal court system so
the DC circuit is uh especially
considering their conduct over the last
couple of years is not evenhanded number
two I think the key phrase is that when
you’re dealing with the bounds of the
powers of the presidency that’s very
important during the 20 during 2020
president Trump through his team was
making sure that the laws were actually
being Faithfully executed around how
ballot ballots were being counted that
is an official act so a a a president is
does have a responsibility to do that
number three if you look at the cases
that are now being brought this is
clearly coordinated by democrats at the
upper ends of the Democrat Party who are
now trying to criminalize the ability to
actually go through the legal process of
making sure that the ballots are counted
appropriately that actual uh protocols
in election processes and states are
followed accurately and if that is now
illegal uh then we have a much bigger
problem because if this if the Supreme
Court doesn’t Grant presidential
immunity what you’re saying to President
Biden is that because he did not follow
border security law and Americans have
died as a result then he could be
brought up on criminal charges or the
fact that President Biden has used his
administration to limit and and and
suppress the free speech of the American
people during covid-19 then he could be
brought up on criminal or civil charges
as a result this is a major case about
the powers of the presidency and if you
look at what president Trump did during
2020 his actions were through his office
to make sure that election laws were
Faithfully followed in the United States
uh Congress man you’re talking about
President Biden but if the Supreme Court
rules that presidents are immune from
prosecution that obviously would protect
democratic presidents as well so are you
concerned that President Biden could
take advantage of that
immunity no that’s not what I’m saying I
think you’re you’re saying it the wrong
way what I saying is is that there has
to be some element that protects the
President in their official duties
whether we agree or disagree with the
actions as long as they are within the
official duties there has to be some
protection for presidents when they
leave office or they will constantly be
looking over their shoulder and you
cannot have a chief executive actually
manage the duties of that office if
they’re constantly worried about well
when I leave office I’m going to be
prosecuted by my political Rivals which
by the way is exactly what is happening
to president Trump that is why this is
interfering in an election because his
his his his presidential Rivals his
political Rivals are actively trying to
Criminal I him and prosecute him you
cannot maintain the United States of
America if you continue to go down this
road presidents do have to have some
semblance of protection when they leave
office now uh Congressman former
president Trump has now been identified
as an unindicted co-conspirator in
election interference cases in Arizona
and Michigan as well what’s your
reaction to that I think these these
cases are a farce and a joke once again
more uh election interference let’s also
be very clear why did the Attorney
General in Arizona wait to do this six
months before an election because she
wants to interfere with the election in
Arizona why do this in Michigan because
they want to interfere in the election
in Michigan and I’ll say it again there
is nothing illegal about a campaign
deciding to challenge an election it
happens all the time there’s nothing
illegal about that what you have here is
you have Democrat attorney generals who
want to criminalize that behavior for
political purposes to a broader
perspective we get these arguments all
the time about trying to protect the
institutions of our country if you
criminalize behavior that does allow
candidates to challenge elections then
you are actually leading to the
destruction of our institutions you’re
not protecting our institutions
Congressman there are methods in place
to do that and what they’re alleging is
that Trump went beyond those legal
methods and we of course will watch this
play out in court and so your arguments
will be heard there as well Republican
Congressman Byron Donalds we appreciate
your time today thank
you meanwhile former president Trump
[Music]
says and former president Trump says he
wanted to attend those Supreme Court
oral arguments today but the judge in
his Manhattan criminal trial has said he
has to be in that courtroom former
National inquire publisher David peek is
expected to return to the stand and
expand on his claims of a scheme to
catch and kill negative stories about
Trump during the 2016 election including
former Playboy model Karen mcdougall’s
story of an affair with Trump meanwhile
Trump is now part of two more cases
related to election interference as an
unindicted co-conspirator ABC News
executive editorial producer John santui
joins me now along with ABC News legal
contributor Brian buckmire for more John
how significant is it that Trump is now
named as an unindicted co-conspirator
and two more cases related to election
interference it’s not good right it just
builds into this argument I mean you
said it earlier all four of these
criminal cases where Donald Trump is a
name defendant all relate to election
interference and look part of what
prosecutors have said especially in this
New York trial is that if Donald Trump
crosses a line when he eventually takes
the stand they could introduce evidence
in some of the other cases that have
already happened they’ve talked about e
Carol about others keep in mind that
though that case in haton is so much on
the hush money payments involving Donald
Trump and women it is excuse me it is an
election interference case so at the end
of the day talking about Donald Trump
now in multiple States being a name
defendant in one being Georgia and two
others being an unindicted
co-conspirator it just helps build
Prosecutor’s case even firmer Diane I
have to ask you especially coming out of
that interview with Byron Donald does
the sheer number of these cases feed
into these claims that there are
political motivations behind so you know
listen I think that you know Byron
Donald’s made the point that 6 months
before an election you know is is not
something just to Shar your shoulders at
you know that is something that the
Trump team is going to lean into an
argument there for sure but part of what
is going to be said is that it took time
to go through these investigations it
took a lot of people starting to
cooperate and flip and think about the
way if you read these indictments it
talks about the number of people they
spoke to that eventually
after prosecutors pressured them because
they had so much evidence on them those
people started cooperating and providing
more and more information look at
Georgia as a great example right Georgia
though there were originally 19 people
indicted there were about 30 or so
unindicted co-conspirators all of whom
were brought in to speak to a special
purpose grand jury originally to build
out a case some of whom were brought
back to the grand jury because of what
they told prosecutors ultimately to
indict it’s all the process uh Brian
David pcker the former National inquire
publisher is set to take the stand again
today in the criminal hush money case
he’s already uh talked about uh being
part of a catch and kill scheme to kill
negative stories about then candidate
Trump and that that scheme came about
during the Trump’s candidacy that it had
never happened before uh dug’s alleged
affair with former president Trump and
his attempts to kill those stories what
do you think prosecutors are looking to
hear from him as he gets back on the
stand so D I’m expecting that
prosecutors will dive into more of the
Caren McDougall but ultimately get into
the heart of what this case is and that
is the catch and kill scheme that
surrounds stormy Daniel I think once you
get past that we’re going to get into
this intent to Def frud and they don’t
know whether or not Donald Trump is
ultimately going to take the stand to
testify so the best way to get a
Criminal defendant’s Intent or or their
kind of men’s Ray or their mental state
however you want to put it is to get the
the words from the co-conspirators say
all right pecker you you were there what
did Donald Trump say why did he say he
wanted to do this and even going back to
your to your earlier interview yes some
of these aspects might not be illegal to
for example uh ensure that an election
is is proper but when you have the
requisite information that you know an
election is proper that you know that
you’re supposed to be properly
documenting uh business records and you
do it the incorrect way I’m sorry it
doesn’t take an attorney to tell you
this but that’s illegal John we’re
talking about a here this case is going
to center a lot on Donald Trump’s sex
life what does that mean for him not
just legally but in terms of his
reputation having these stories now out
there in the court of law well also with
his family I mean one of the things that
I’ve heard from many sources close to
the former president is that some
members of his family specifically his
sons Eric Trump and Don Jr have offered
to come and join their father in court
because one of the things Donald Trump
has said is that he doesn’t like being
there and one of the things his
attorneys have recognized is that to
have people with him in the room that
he’s familiar with will make this
process a bit more comfortable however
one observation from a source extremely
close to the former president said to me
look at the end of the day this is
embarrassing he doesn’t want his kids
there doesn’t want really anybody there
to hear about his sex life and that is
so much of what this case is about for
him personally and you know we have to
recognize you know David pcker is
keeping it right now on the money of
things Stormy Daniels when she takes the
stand is going to talk about the money
of things but we’re all here because of
that one night so you got to imagine in
some way shape or form that’s going to
come up in court and the one thing that
will be fascinating to see and watch and
unfortunately there’s no cameras in New
York Criminal Court body language what
does Donald Trump do is she’s talking
about that I mean the image of it alone
and of course we’re also awaiting a
ruling on whether the judge will hold
former president Trump in contempt for
alleged gag order violations we’ll be
watching that case very closely John
santui Brian buckmeier thank you both
and again we’ll be following that story
as well as those Supreme Court oral
arguments all day long we’ll bring you
the latest right here on ABC News live
coming up the Nationwide movement on
college campuses more than 100
protesters arrested in Boston plus chaos
in Texas California and New York what
students are demanding and why they say
they’re not backing down and it’s an
unprecedented day in American history
former president Trump current
presidential candidate faces four
current and consequential legal battles
all centered on charges of corrupting
election
Supreme Court Justices will weigh in on
the power of the presidency and you’ll
be able to listen to the oral arguments
in that case right here on ABC News live
starting at 10: a.m. eastern meanwhile
Trump returns to a New York City
courtroom for the criminal hush money
trial against him we have Team coverage
all morning long stay with
us this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story
Britney are you ready you’ve been told
to go through your bag and you felt felt
the cartridge what were you thinking
that moment when you felt that my life
is over right here you’ve just been told
you’re going to be 9 years in one of the
worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
woman killed at the very beginning of
her life what happened when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around probably
to God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
Dame will match that on
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
whenever news breaks we are here in
Israel a nation at war after that br
brutal surprise attack by Hamas on the
ground in Ukraine reporting from Leon
main the scene of a horrific mass
shooting ABC News live is right there
everywhere from the scene of that deadly
missile strike in Dena
Ukraine reporting from the earthquake in
Turkey en rolling for this tornado tore
through this little town from the most
devastating disaster in Hawaii from
Charleston South Carolina on the 2024
campaign Trail in Iceland let’s go
traveling with the president in Mexico
City wherever the story from the front
lines from Southern Israel outside the
Gaza Strip in be from the FBI reporting
from the nurses on the picket line here
at 10 Downing Street in London streaming
live to you wherever the story is
wherever the story is wherever the story
is we’re going to take you there you’re
streaming ABC News live ABC News live
you’re streaming ABC News live ABC news
live streaming free everywhere America’s
number one streaming news
welcome back to ABC News live it is an
unprecedented day in American history
former president Trump is facing four
concurrent and consequential legal
battles all centered on charges of
election corruption we’ll have full
coverage from DC to New York City just
ahead but we are also monitoring the
chaos around college campuses across the
country law enforcement is cracking down
on growing anti-war protests
universities from New York City to
Boston to Los Angeles and Austin Texas
are seeing a wave of demonstrations amid
the Israel Hamas War ABC’s Trevor alt is
at the University of Southern California
where police arrested more than 90
protesters the Nationwide movement of
Campus
demonstrations leading to sometimes
violent
clashes overnight at Emerson College in
Boston protesters attempting to form a
human wall to stop police moving in up
to a 100 protesters
arrested police at the University of
Southern California overnight arresting
93 people while removing tents and
clearing protesters from a Gaza solidary
Camp one Precinct now full of Arrested
protesters these tense moments after a
scuffle between officers in riot gear
and a pro Palestinian
group University now closed to anyone
but students it makes me feel threatened
and intimidated and I think that the
anti-semitic rhetoric must be condemned
by the University an unauth
protest breaking out at the University
of Texas in Austin no what are you doing
dozens arrested as officers used horses
to disperse crowds some nearly crashing
into oura vial who was on the scene a
cameraman filming the demonstration
grabbed by police and thrown to the
ground similar encampments springing up
at Brown University in
[Applause]
Harvard and at columia University
officials extending a deadline to remove
this large encampment to Thursday night
as negotiations with students continue
myself my peers my colleagues my friends
we’re not going to stop we’re not going
to rest we will stand here until the
University divests from Israeli apar and
their genocidal campaign in
Gaza house Speaker Mike Johnson visiting
campus criticizing school officials for
allowing the continued demonstrations we
just can’t allow this kind of hatred and
anti-Semitism to flourish our campuses
they have chased down Jewish students
they have mocked them and reviled them
they have shouted racial ep epithets the
speaker telling our lindsy Davis schools
could lose Federal funding they’ve
encamped on the campus they are
threatening people with their lives and
they’re preventing them from we have
breaking news now a former president
Trump is speaking outside a Manhattan
courtroom in his hush money trial let’s
listen the GTV just announces all the
way down to 1.6% and it’s heading south
it’s going to give worse gas prices in
California were just also announced of
$760 gas is going way up energy costs
are going way up and the stock market is
uh in a sense crashing the numbers are
very bad this is bomic it’s catching up
with them it’s lucky that it’s catching
up before he leaves office as opposed to
after he leaves office but this is by
nomics it’s D destroying our country at
the border destroying our country with
other countries they no longer respect
the United States I think the dollar is
in tremendous trouble in terms of
currency this is going to be the
standard and it’s going to be the
standard with me with B you’re going to
lose the dollar the standard that’ll be
like losing the biggest war we’ve ever
lost and it’s a shame but it’s uh all
the way down to 1.6 and I’ll tell you
nobody thought that would be possible
and it looks like it’s heading down from
from there so that’s very bad news this
morning I met with great people
construction workers some teamsters and
other unions and some not in unions and
we had a a fantastic morning you were
there some of the Pres was there uh
great show of support as you know some
tremendous polls came out over the last
24 hours where we’re up at all of these
swing States and up nationally but one
came out when we’re down very little in
New York New York traditionally isn’t
won by Republicans anymore it used to be
50 years ago but not anymore and I think
we have a good chance of winning New
York we’re going to give it a big play
we’re going to the South Bronx to do a
rally we’re going to be doing a rally at
Madison Square Garden we believe we
think we’re signing Madison Square
Garden to do it we’re going to have a
big rally honoring the police and
honoring the firemen and everybody
honoring a lot of people including
teachers by the way we’re honoring
teachers because teachers have been very
badly aligned with some very poor
leadership but we’ll be honoring uh the
people that make New York work and we’ll
be doing a number of large rallies that
it’ll be very exciting but we think we
have a real good chance of winning New
York and again the swing States we’re
leading in every one of them and by a
lot not just by a little by a lot but
the big news today I think is the
1.6% and when you look at 1.6 GDP that’s
a number that nobody thought was
possible that’s a real bad number and it
looks like the projections are it’s
heading in the wrong direction and
that’s why the stock market’s down so
big today so in the meantime I’m at this
trial my constitutional rights have been
taken away from me uh but every single
expert every legal scholar every
respected scholar has said this is no
case there is no case here this is just
a political Witch Hunt thank you very
much are you feeling about Supreme cour
argument are you the argum I think that
the Supreme Court has a very uh
important argument before today I would
have loved to have been there but this
judge would not allow that to happen I
should be there but he wouldn’t allow it
to happen I think he puts himself above
the Supreme Court which is unfortunate
isn’t it but the uh argument on immunity
is very important a president has to
have imunity this has nothing to do with
me this has to do with a president in
the future for a 100 years from now if
you don’t have immunity you’re not going
to do anything you’re going to become a
ceremonial president you’re just going
to be doing nothing you’re not going to
take any of the risks both good and bad
I mean you’re going to make some great
decisions and save the country you’re
going to make some decisions which
you’re unfortunate but that’s the way it
is but you’re not going to do anything
if you don’t have immunity because
otherwise you’re going to be prosecuted
after you leave office or doing
something like going into an area going
into a country doing lots of things that
you wouldn’t be doing and we don’t want
a ceremonial President we have to have a
real president and assuming you have the
right person that can make a big
difference you saw that for four years
when I was President we were respected
all over the world we had the best
economy we’ve ever had everything was
good we had no Wars we defeated Isis we
had no Wars we had know nothing but we
were respected all over the world and
now it’s a it’s a disgrace we also by
the way had the single best border ever
in recorded history of our country we
had the best border ever we built 571
mil of wall we were going to build 200
more miles far laugh at all over the
world and you have riots at all the
universities the only place that’s
locked down is this Courthouse because
they don’t want any supporters here they
don’t want Maga here they don’t want
anybody and this thing is locked down
like a buttoned up vest and it should
shouldn’t be if they did the same
lockdown in Columbia NYU and the
colleges and universities you’d have no
problem whatsoever but there you can put
tents up you can stay as long as you
want but this courthouse is locked down
there’s not a person within five blocks
they have more police here than and I
call them New York’s finest cuz that’s
what they are and they don’t want to be
doing this either they’d like to be
straightening out conditions and they’d
like to be at the colleges and making
sure that they don’t have what’s
happening cuz what’s happening at the
colleges is a disgrace all over the
world people are laughing at us this is
the worst Run Country right now probably
anywhere just about you don’t get much
worse we have a president who’s a
disaster we have a president who’s the
worst president in the history of our
country all you have to do is look at
the millions of people coming in from
prisons from mental institutions and
terrorists they’re coming in at levels
we’ve never seen before so I’m going to
go in now and sit in front of a case
election interference this is the way
they think they’re going to get elected
but I guess based on what I’m looking at
it’s driving up my call a little not
driving than
you the charges in Mr President was last
time do Bor work for you that’s former
president Trump addressing the cameras
before he enters the Manhattan courtroom
in the criminal hush money trial against
him the president touched on a number of
issues from the economy to un arrest at
universities across the country and of
course the supreme court hearing oral
arguments in another case uh brought uh
with his attorneys today he wanted to be
there at the Supreme Court but the
Manhattan judge told him he had to be in
that Manhattan courtroom I want to bring
in our executive editorial producer John
santui for more John a lot more of a
campaign type speech today than we’ve
heard from president Trump earlier in
some of his other legal proceedings but
he did also touch on on some of the
legal stuff against him what sticks out
to your a couple things and just
actually something that was on footage
just caught my eye but I’ll get to that
in a second but first first time we’ve
heard Donald Trump talk about the
Supreme Court case any great length and
really the first time throughout all of
these hallway remarks he’s actually
taken a question from a small pool of
reporters that’s gathered outside of
that court room on the 15th floor so
Donald Trump’s saying that you know his
belief about this case for the Supreme
Court is that it’s not about him he
claims it would impact other presidents
to come because of any type of
presidential immunity argument they
would make and a little bit of what
Terry Moran was talking to you about
earlier is that you know could this have
impacted actions George W bush took
after 911 that’s going to be the
argument from Team Trump in court today
when they enter the Supreme Court it is
though a reminder that Donald Trump here
with this case this really is the last
way to get him out of this one what I
mean by that as you well know is that
this started in the district court Trump
made the argument his team and went to
the Circuit Court in DC now it’s the
Supreme Court that that would hear it if
the Supreme Court says it goes back to
the district court We Stand by judge
Chuck and Immunity does not apply then
that really does mean that trial could
go forward and in theory that could mean
at some point this summer we could see
that case get going prosecutors have
already said that because he was
indicted this idea of 60 to 90 days that
doj doesn’t prosecute anybody that is
tied to an election is irrelevant
because the charges were brought well
before so that actually could be really
quite interesting and I think just
seeing Donald Trump turn around and
speak about it when somebody asked you
know that even though he’s in that
courtroom in Manhattan today he wants to
be at the Supreme Court but he’s very
very closely watching that case the
other thing that I just want to note for
a second if you can is that we talk so
often about the people that surround
Donald Trump in these moments and I
remember and I think you do too um after
Donald Trump went down to Fulton County
Georgia that he was next to Walt naada
his most loyal the one that held the
umbrella over his head as you’ll recall
the image that I just saw going into
court that just jumped out to me off the
screen Boris Epstein who was just
indicted last night by the Arizona State
Attorney General as far as I am recall
and I’m checking with our team he has
not been any of these proceedings so far
but the fact that he’s there today less
than 24 hours he was just indicted in a
matter related to the former president
it does just show this small team of
trump AIDS and allies that have been
around him and are clearly loyal to a
fault and to think just learning after
you’ve been indicted on criminal charges
for things you did for Donald Trump and
you’re right there it just talks about
that Bond it’s it’s really just a
striking image to see it for me yeah and
then we saw the president turn and head
into the courtroom former National
acquir publisher David pecker is heading
back to the stand today in that hush
money trial against the former president
what are you watching for there so I
think today is going to be fascinating
because we’re actually going to start to
get further into the timeline that
matters and what I mean by that is you
know think of it almost like a roller
coaster ride right we’ve been going up
we started to learn about everything
with you know some of the smaller
stories $330,000 to a door man didn’t go
anywhere we started to get to Karen
McDougall started to get into the real
crunch time of the campaign today I
think that roller coaster is going to go
right off the cliff in the sense that
we’re going to start to speed up here
and you know one of the things that
David peer touched on a little bit was
the intensity at which he was talking to
Michael Cohen as they got further into
the election because these stories were
coming to light pecker was trying to
catch them and kill them bury them so
they wouldn’t impact Donald Trump’s
election and we know based on the
timeline Karen McDougall was in the June
July is area of 2016 that means if we’re
starting to move the timeline into that
area Diane very quickly we’re going to
progress to the fall when we know that
is when Stormy Daniels was eventually
paid off and John while this is
happening we’re also awaiting a ruling
from that same judge on whether he will
hold former president Trump in contempt
for alleged gag order violations what’s
the latest on that well I think it’s
actually interesting think about Donald
Trump outside of court today I mean you
and I were were talking in real time as
just saying what he’s focusing on he
talked about the Dow Jones he talked
about the election he mentioned at one
point he wants to hold a rally at
Madison Square Garden because he thinks
New York could somehow in his mind flip
red he’s not talking about the case and
I think that plays into the fact that
his team and others have recognized
these 10 violations that prosecutors
cited Court earlier this week he has to
take them seriously those were all posts
that were based on postings on Truth
social but we know prosecutors flagged a
potential 11th violation comments he
made about Michael Cohen at that very
camera outside of court so I do think
Donald Trump knows or has been at least
advised you need to rein this in because
if this does come down it could not be
good for us now let’s be clear there are
one of three things that could happen
judge gives him a warning nothing judge
gives a financial penalty which we know
prosecutors have said for each violation
they want $1,000 or the third is some
type of temporary confinement in jail
and though we would never think that’s
possible we know from our teams
reporting as we discussed earlier this
week that the secret service has had
conversations with NYPD and Court
officials that if the judge decided to
do that is that possible how would it
happen the fact that those conversations
have happened alone whether they happen
or not just goes to the heart that this
is really really really serious all
right John santui thank you and now I
want to go to the Supreme Court those
oral arguments that the Court is set to
hear over presidential immunity the
issue in question is whether former
president Trump should be immune from
Criminal prosecution for his alleged
efforts to overthrown the 2020 election
because he was president at the time
Trump’s attorneys argue the presidency
can’t function if the president can face
criminal charges claiming it would tie
the hands of future presidents so far
two lower courts have rejected their
arguments warning it would collapse the
system of separated Powers by putting a
president Above the Law now the Supreme
Court has to decide whether or not to
overrule them let’s bring a national
senior National correspondent ABC News
live anchor Terry Moran along with Chief
Justice correspondent Pier Thomas and
ABC News Supreme Court contributor Kate
Shaw for more on that Pier what’s at
stake for former president Trump today
well at the heart of it is whether these
trials particularly the one regarding
January 6th can go forward also so you
have the classified documents cases
unfolding in a case down in Florida uh
what this means is the fundamental
question that you put forward a moment
ago can a president while he’s in office
do whatever he wishes to do with
impunity with no fear that he could be
prosecuted when he left office uh doj
the special counsel is saying no that
cannot be and uh former president Trump
is making the case that you know he
should have great latitude uh to do what
he needs to do and that this affects
other presidents going
forward so Terry how do you expect the
attorneys to make their arguments today
to try to persuade the
justices well vigorously obviously with
all their might and and with for the
Trump team they they are making this
extraordinary and unprecedented argument
that presidents should have absolute
immunity from any criminal prosecution
for anything that could be described as
an official act while they’re president
it it really is an extraordinary
argument and they may have trouble with
it I mean I might expect a hot bench uh
in this case but their basic argument is
that that presidents need this immunity
from Criminal prosecution in order to
act fully freely swiftly efficiently in
the best interest of the country so that
they aren’t always worried always
looking over their shoulder could this
result at some future date in a criminal
prosecution of me personally by my
political enemies or or that kind of
thing and so they believe that the
constitution contemplates in its
authorizing a president of the United
States this kind of immunity they’re
going to run into a lot of tough
questions and not just from the Liberals
because it is such a sweeping claim uh
on the other hand the special council’s
argument the Justice Department’s
argument is pretty straightforward
presidents are not above the law if they
commit crimes they can be tried the
world won’t come to an end uh and that
this is something that the Constitution
and our laws and Society can easily
accomplish I think that that’s the basic
argument that you’re going to hear in
court today Kate the lower courts
rejected Trump’s arguments so far so
what will it take for the Supreme Court
to overturn those
rulings you know I do think the lower
courts decisively and unanimously so far
rejected this really aggressive argument
that former president Trump is making
that this never before recognized
absolute immunity from Criminal
prosecution is necessary for the
president to be able to effectively uh
conduct his office keep the president
safe uh Keep the Country safe act as the
commander-in-chief all of these really
policy grounded arguments are really
what uh Trump’s team is offering to the
Supreme Court and on the other side the
special Council has arguments that
really sound in constitutional structure
we were never supposed to have a King a
president is subject to law even if a
king is not and also just historically
uh no president has ever understood
themselves to stand outside of the reach
of the criminal law um and you know the
sky hasn’t fallen presidents have been
able to do their jobs just fine I mean
one historical example that I think is
important here is that when Richard
Nixon left office he received a full
pardon from Gerald Ford when Ford became
president and it was understood that a
pardon was necessary because otherwise
Nixon would have been subject to
criminal charge and prosecution so
everyone has understood historically
that these uh you know charges were a
possibility if presidents violated the
law and so it really is an uphill
argument for Trump to make and I expect
it to be uphill there may be some
sympathy from some you know some of the
conservative justices um but but I do
expect real skepticism from most if not
all of the bench and to my mind the real
question is how quickly the justices
resolve this case because of course that
has everything to do with whether a
trial could realistically occur so Pier
what could this ruling mean for the
special council’s election interference
case against the former president well
everything I mean at the end of the day
these are uh among the most
consequential cases that the justice
department has ever brought period it
involves you know inditing a former
president who is actually seeking office
uh in a current very hot election cycle
so that is the issue and I think what
the special counsel will be looking for
most today is any hint from the justices
uh as to whether there’s any kind of
guard rails that they want to create for
example many of the legal Scholars and I
think Terry and uh Kate might agree with
this don’t believe that any president
has you know car blanch to have total
immunity but will the court somehow
suggest are there categ ories uh and uh
that should be excluded and did the
justice department and the special
counsel apply the law correctly are
these statutes that they’re uh bringing
these charges against the president are
are they the appropriate kind of charges
that should be brought uh in a case like
this all right Kate Shaw Pierre Thomas
Terry Moran thank you and let’s bring in
former Secretary of the army Louis
Caldera for more on this secretary
Calder you have been in the room for
some major presidential decisions so
what sort of process is there when it
comes to those kinds of decisions does
the potential for criminal charges play
a role when a president is deciding some
of these
things the uh the possibility of
criminal prosecution uh has never been
used against the president or even
considered as they made these decisions
about things in the National Security
interest and I should note that when you
have those kinds of discussions there
are a lot of lawyers involved White
House Council Council for the justice
department Council for the intelligence
agencies the defense
department those people to the extent
that there are gray a decisions there
are lawyers in good faith trying to say
how do we do what we need to do but
consistent with the law and the fact
that there you have so many advisers and
lawyers involved in the process would
make it incredibly hard to ever bring
such a claim so it’s not like the
president sitting there and just has to
pick up the phone and make snap
decisions and doesn’t have the ability
to uh consider consult with anyone and
so this is what’s so worrisome
presidents have made and have never you
know we we believe this argument that
that uh president former president Trump
is making is ahistorical there have been
many many controversial decisions made
by presidents throughout our nation’s
history no one has ever sought to
prosecute them and I think that’s for
several reasons one is that we believe
the president is acting in the best
interest of the nation
two that they have all this support from
lawyers that would be impossible to for
for someone to come back and say you
knowingly intentionally violated the law
almost impossible to make out such a
case and three no Administration wants
to waste its time going after its
predecessors they say let history judge
my predecessor I have to use my time and
energy to try to get my program passed
and we wor we worry about the National
Security implications of creating this
exception where the president can
violate the law and then order the
military to execute his unlawful orders
military members who’ve also swor an
oath to the Constitution and to uphold
the rule of law who can themselves be
prosecuted if they take unlawful action
and that this will destroy the trust
that has to exist between civilians and
military leaders in our Department of
Defense it will undermine support for
our national security among the American
public if the military is used for
political purposes and against the
American people to try to do things like
wash demonstrations of people exercising
their first amendment rights and that it
sends a wrong message to the rest of the
world that we’re no longer uh a country
that stands behind the rule of law that
stands behind the principles of
democracy that no one is above the
criminal law and I worry that if the
Supreme Court creates this even tries to
create a very narrow exception between
official duties and person personal gain
that you’re going to have uh individuals
like former president Trump who sees
everything he does as in the National
interest even if it’s
99.9% personal gain he’ll say there was
that 1% of my mind that was really
thinking about the nation and it becomes
an exception that could that could
swallow the whole Rule and then we don’t
want to be litigating these things in
the future we don’t want to empower
presidents of any party to be able to
willfully violate criminal laws all
right secretary Lewis Caldera we
appreciate your time today thank
you and we have breaking news disgraced
Hollywood Mogul Harvey Weinstein’s New
York conviction for felony sex crimes
has just been overturned by the state
court of appeals the court rules that
the judge made an error when allowing
other sexual assault victims of Harvey
Weinstein to testify in that case the
decision leaves open the possibility
that district attorney Alvin Bragg could
indict Weinstein again on the same
charges so that ruling does not mean
Weinstein will walk free he’s currently
serving time in a New York prison but he
will be transferred to the custody of
prison authorities in California where
he was also convicted on a rape and
sexual assault charges and sentence
there a spokesperson for Weinstein tells
ABC news we are happily surprised and we
are studying the
ruling coming up the Nationwide movement
on college campuses more than 100
protesters arrested in Boston plus chaos
in Texas California and New York what
students are demanding and why they say
they’re not backing
down and testimony resumes in the
criminal hush money trial against former
president Trump as the Supreme Court is
about to hear oral arguments in his case
for presidential immunity we have Team
coverage and we will have those oral
arguments live at 10: a.m. eastern stay
with
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Sunday night on ABC tonight the Supreme
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welcome back to ABC News live first law
enforcement is cracking down on growing
anti-war protests on college campuses
across the country universities from New
York City to Boston to Los Angeles and
Austin Texas are seeing a wave of
demonstrations amid the Israel Hamas War
ABC’s Trevor Al joins me now from the
campus of USC in Los Angeles along with
Austin affiliate kvu reporter Eric
pointer for more on this Trevor more
than 90 protesters were arrested at USC
overnight what’s the latest on that and
what has it been like on campus over the
last few
days yeah Diane I think it’s been
similar on a lot of college campuses
what we’ve been watching is a pretty
consistent escalation both in the number
of demonstrators and also in their
actions in their Civil Disobedience even
going as far as setting up encampments
and then that is being met with a larger
response from the authorities to the
point that it can result in some pretty
tense clashes and we saw that a few
different times yesterday here at USC
these demonstrations effectively shut
down the campus where even today while
the demonstrat are now gone any student
faculty staff here has to show a campus
ID to even be allowed here on campus
having said that these demonstrators
while a lot of them have been arrested
close to a hundred of them uh their
resolve is still steadfast and I think
it’s very likely we’re going to see even
more demonstrations possibly even larger
than we have seen before and quite
frankly I don’t think that we’ve seen
any demonstration across the country
that in response to police saying they
need to go home said well the police are
right and we’re going to stop I think
what you’re going to see is continued
escalation like what we’ve already been
watching over the past couple weeks uh
now protesters say they’re asking for
these institutions to divest from Israel
what are you hearing from
demonstrators that’s part of it there’s
also here at USC specifically they are
still upset at the University for
preventing the valedictorian from giving
her speech at the graduation ceremony
that’s a Muslim student she’s been very
outspoken in support of Gaza against the
actions of the Israeli government and
the Israeli military USC had said that
they weren’t going to allow her to speak
uh as an act of uh campus safety that it
would that it was necessary in order to
keep everyone at the graduation ceremony
safe these demonstrators are very
against that but there also this is much
more of a large scale movement too I
don’t think if they the USC was simply
going to allow the valedictorian to
speak that you would see the
demonstration stop they are explicitly
speaking out about what is happening in
Gaza and the actions of Israel and its
military and its government at large
here too so it’s both for the University
specifically but it’s also about the
entire movement campus wide D now Eric
you’re at the Travis County Jail where
some protesters who were arrested there
last night are now being released what
are they telling
you so we’ve seen a handful of people
who have been released so far and
they’ve been greeted by a pretty large
crowd most of whom have been here all
night now they will applaud and cheer
when people are getting released and
this morning we’ve seen a lot of
reunions we saw a family that was
waiting for their after sleeping in
their cars all night here at the jail
and a boyfriend who was reunited with
his girlfriend she was arrested at the
protest she was not a student but she
was there Kaden Casper her boyfriend
actually shared video of her arrest and
we were here when she was released
around 5:00 this morning and she
described what happened to
her I turned around to make sure the
people behind me were okay and I wasn’t
stepping on them that’s when they
grabbed me by the back of the hair with
a fist full of my hair to the scalp and
dragged me to the ground
after that I did not resist
arrest now she said that she heard about
the protest that morning but didn’t go
to it right away she was walking past
campus later and she saw that it was
still going on so then she decided to
join and she said it was about 20
minutes after she joined that she was
arrested and like I can tell you from
what we’re seeing we’ve got some cheers
going on right now people are still
trickling out a lot of the ones that
we’ve spoke to said that they were
charged with criminal trespass but some
say that charges have since been
dropped all right Trevor alt Eric
pointer thank you
both and it’s an unprecedented day in
American history former president and
current presidential candidate Trump
faces four concurrent and consequential
legal battles all centered on charges of
corrupting elections Trump is back in a
New York City courtroom for the criminal
hush money trial against him and Supreme
Court Justices will be weighing the
power of the presidency you will be able
to listen to those oral arguments right
here on ABC News live starting at 10:
a.m. eastern we have Team coverage all
morning long stay with
us Sunday night people think they really
know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you
Michael
Michael Strahan John bonjovi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney gliner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC we have a beautiful young
woman killed at the very beginning of
her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around promise
to God until years later when the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D will match that scene
we have your DNA at the scene what did
you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC
tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
power of the presidency oral arguments
begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
plus tornado severe weather the 10
states in the path more Americans turn
to World News Tonight with David mure
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there you’re streaming ABC News
live welcome back former president Trump
is in a Manhattan courtroom right now
for the criminal hush money trial
against him as testimony resumes with
former National inquir publisher David
pecker taking the stand let’s bring in
ABC News executive editorial producer
John santui attorney and former
prosecutor Emily Bradford for more John
I I understand you’re getting some new
details about this potential gag order
violation against former president Trump
what’s happening there so what’s
interesting is that we’ve been waiting
on a ruling from the judge on the gag
order violations the 10 that were
presented Plus one other outside of
Court even before the day got started
started today prosecutors introduced
what they say were four more violations
by Donald Trump in just the last couple
of days now what’s fascinating is that
some of the violations were social media
post another was outside of Court two of
them though fascinating were regarding
media interviews Donald Trump did
promoting and talking about um a US
Senate candidate and his own race
leading up to the Pennsylvania
Republican primary which was was on
Tuesday Diane and one of those interview
was with ABC’s affiliate wpv and the
quote that Donald Trump gave him just
pulling up from our colleagues here it
was quote well Michael Cohen is
convicted liar and he’s got no
credibility whatsoever he goes on then
talk about David pecker in this
interview with wpv and says David pecker
I don’t know exactly what he’s going to
be testifying about or about or but
he’ll be testifying at some point today
the point is of both of those stat more
so the Cohen statement than the pecker
but nevertheless Donald Trump in this
gag order cannot talk about Witnesses
Diane he did it so Emily what does this
mean for the judge’s decision the the
judge was still waiting we’re still
waiting on a ruling on whether he
violated these 10 gag order uh
violations that the prosecution
presented just the other day so what
happens now that the prosecution is
suggesting even more gag order
violations does the judge now have to
take these all into account or could he
issue a decision on one and then the
other what are you watching
for well he could handle it in a number
of ways I think this just comp this
definitely complicates judge maran’s job
and I’m sure he’d rather not be dealing
with these issues at all um he could
deal with the first violations
separately and address these separately
probably I think it would make the most
sense to deal with them all together in
a lot of ways this um distracts from and
slows down uh the momentum of the trial
I think you know Jud judge Maran is in a
tough position um and because he is he’s
basically faced with as we’ve discussed
the option of well you could you could
hold Donald Trump in criminal contempt
and have him confined for some period of
time um that that seems really unlikely
and um highly disruptive and uh it’s
kind of hard to imagine that happening
on the other hand um you know he doesn’t
have a lot that he can do right so if he
he can issue these fines of you know
$1,000 per infraction but for Donald
Trump I mean that’s sort of the
equivalent of okay put a quarter in the
wear jar right is that really a
deterrent um and does that really
accomplish
anything all right John santui Emily
Bradford thank you both we will be
following this story and those Supreme
Court oral arguments all day long stay
right here on ABC News live we will
bring you updates as we get them we’ll
be right back
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to me the move started chasing a dog
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the Supreme Court takes on the power of
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every night ABC’s World News Tonight
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newscast from ABC News live power of the
presidency Supreme Court Showdown here
now Diane
meedo good morning everyone history is
about to be made in our nation’s capital
as the Supreme Court is set to hear
arguments over presidential immunity and
former president Trump the issuing
question is whether the former president
has immunity from Criminal prosecution
for his alleged efforts to overturn the
results of the 2020 election because he
was president at the time the case could
have sweeping ramifications in special
counsel Jack Smith’s case against the
former president and also sweeping
ramifications for precedent in general
let’s bring in ABC News senior National
correspondent Terry Moran outside the
Supreme Court also professor at the
University of Pennsylvania Carrie Law
School and ABC’s legal contributor Kate
Shaw and chief justice correspondent
Pierre Thomas as well as political
director Ric kleene those oral arguments
are starting now let’s listen making
precisely when bold and fearless action
is most
needed every current president will face
de facto blackmail and extortion by his
political Rivals while he is still in
office the implications of the Court’s
decision here extend far beyond the
facts of this case
could President George W bush have been
sent to prison for obstructing an
official proceeding or allegedly uh
lying to Congress to induce war in
Iraq could President Obama be charged
with murder for killing US citizens
abroad by drone
strike could President Biden someday be
charged with uh unlawfully inducing
immigrants to enter the country
illegally for his border
policies the answer to all these
questions is no Prosecuting the
president for his official acts is an
innovation with no foothold in history
or tradition and incompatible with our
constitutional
structure the original meaning of the
executive vesting Clause the framer
understanding and intent an unbroken
historical tradition spanning 200 years
and policy considerations rooted in the
separation of powers all Council against
it I welcome the Court’s
questions um Mr s to your last Point
could you be more precise as to the
source of this immunity the source of
the immunity is principally rooted in
the uh executive vesting Clause of
Article 2 Section one and how does that
happen uh that that the source of it
justice Thomas I think is as you
described in your separate opinion in
covi for example that the executive
vesting Clause does not include only
executive powers laid out explicitly
therein but encompasses all the powers
that were originally understood to be
included therein and butk against
Madison itself provides strong evidence
this kind of immunity a broad principle
of immunity that protects the
president’s official acts from scrutiny
direct sitting in judgment so to speak
of the article three courts that that
matches the original understanding of
the executive how how exactly would we
determine uh uh what the what an
official Act is uh I said I point the
court to two cases for that obviously
Fitz cheral against uh uh Nixon is is
the best guidance that the Court gives
where the court adopted the Outer
Perimeter test and this court engaged in
analys analysis there that’s very
instructive here where it looked at the
level of specificity the indictment what
if you have um let’s say the official
Act is appointing ambassadors and the
President appoints a particular
individual to a country uh but it’s in
exchange for a bribe somebody says I’ll
give you a million dollars if I made the
ambassador to whatever how do you
analyze that that I think would fall
under this Court’s uh discussion in
Brewster where the Court held with
respect to legislative acts that bribery
is not an official act which also
matches the court common law background
so I the way that this court and
Brewster kind of sliced at the Joint was
to say accepting the bribe and the
agreement to sex the bribe are not
official acts that’s private conduct or
an appointment would not be would be
essentially an unrestrict power of this
court that Congress couldn’t directly
regulate it’s not accepting the bribe
isn’t an official act but appointing an
ambassador is certainly within the
official respon responsibilities of the
president so how could you how how does
your official Acts or the official
acts border boundary um uh come into
play when it’s going to be official uh
assuming that the president is Innocent
but the whole question is whether he’s
going to be uh found innocent or guilty
uh again I think Brewster and Johnson uh
do address that or very persuasively at
least in a slightly different context
Brewster and Johnson say the indictment
has to be expon of all the immune
official acts so there has to be
determination what’s official what’s not
official you expunge the official you
say okay we’re Prosecuting you because
you accepted a million dollars they’re
supposed to say not say what it’s for
because the what’s for part is within
the uh president’s official duties uh
there has to be we would say independent
source of evidence for that and keep in
mind that this indictment charges what
this court has described as unrestrict
powers of the president so the premise
The Logical premise of this indictment
is that Congress by passing vag and
general criminal statutes has purported
to directly regulate the president’s
exercise of things like the exercise of
the employment and removal power uh
things like his ability to speak
directly to the American public core
exercises of his authority under the
recommendations Clause to recommend to
Congress members of Congress the
measures he thinks necessary and
expedient so you have a indictment in
this case that goes right to the
heartland of the president’s powers that
alleges a whole series of official acts
and tries to tie them together by saying
well there’s a private aim or a private
purpose in that case and that’s a
situation which of course could be
alleged in virtually any indictment
Council it can be alleged but it has to
be
proven mum in say is a concept long um
viewed as appropriate in law that there
are some things that are so
fundamentally evil that they have to be
protected
against now I
think and and your uh answer uh below
I’m going to give you a chance to say if
you stay by it if the president
decides that his
rival is a corrupt
person and he orders the military or
order someone to assassinate him is that
within His official acts that for which
he can get immunity it would depend on
the hypothetical but we can see that
could well be an official act they could
and why because he’s doing it for
personal reasons he’s not doing
it at like President Obama is alleged to
have done it to protect the country from
a terrorist he’s doing it for personal
gain and isn’t that the nature of the
allegations here that he’s not doing
them doing these acts in
furtherance of an
official responsibility he’s doing it
for personal gain I I agree with
characterization of the indictment and
that confirms immunity because the
characterization is that there’s a
series of official acts that were done
for an because immunity says even if you
did it for personal gain we won’t hold
you
responsible what do you how could that
be that’s an extremely strong Doctrine
in this Court’s case law and cases like
Fitzgerald well we go back to Justice
Thomas’s question which was where does
that come from
there are M here who tell us that the
founders actually talked about whether
to Grant immunity to the president and
in fact they had had state constitutions
that granted some criminal immunity to
Governors and yet they didn’t take it up
instead they F they pass an impeachment
Clause that basically says you can’t
remove the president from from office
except by a uh trial in the Senate but
you can impeach him
after so or you can impose criminal
liability we would be
creating a situation in which we would
be saying is this is what you’re asking
us to
say which is that a president is
entitled not to make a
mistake but more than that a pre
president is entitled for to to personal
gain to use the trappings of his
office that’s what you’re trying to get
us to
hold without facing criminal liability
your honor I would say three things in
response to that first the doctrine that
immunity does not turn on the allegedly
improper motivation or purpose is
something that this court has reaffirmed
in at least nine or 10 that’s absolute
immunity but qualified immunity does say
that whatever act you take has to be
within what a reasonable person would do
I’m having a hard time
thinking that creating false documents
that submitting false documents that
ordering the assassination of arrival
that accepting a bribe and countless
other laws that could be broken for
personal gain that anyone would say that
it would be reasonable for a president
or any public official to do do that
your honor as this court said very
persuasively in Fitzgerald the the
allegation that this particular act
would be done for an unlawful purpose or
was unlawful could be made in every case
and therefore if that were the doctrine
that the allegation of improper purpose
is what deprives the objective acts of
their immunity then the immunity would
have no purchase and that’s reflected in
many of the other courts cases isn’t
isn’t the work though of the improper
motive
uh at least in the absolute immunity
context to tell us what are official
acts and what are not I mean IID
understood that even in the ab first of
all your ask is absolute immunity isn’t
it principal position that’s your your
your position is you want the same kind
of doctrine that we’ve applied in other
contexts when we say an official has
absolute immunity um and my
understanding is that when we say that
we mean for their official acts is that
right yes we okay so any official act so
that then in that world the real
decision making from the court
standpoint is whether or not something
is an official act or not correct uh
that is an important determination by
all means I mean that’s the
determination in the absolute immunity
world because if you determine that it’s
an official act then the principle is
that you get immunity for it correct
that is correct all right so my question
and I think the Chief Justice may have
asked this at the beginning is how do
you determine what or maybe Justice
Thomas how do you determine what is an
official act and when we’re talking
about the kinds of scenarios that
Justice Sodor brought up one could say
that when the president is using the
trappings of his office to achieve a
personal uh uh gain then he’s actually
not acting officially even if the
doctrine was absolute immunity so what
do you say about that two things in
response to that first to the last point
that allegation that this was really
motivated by an improper private purpose
could be made every single case no I
understand that but but but it would
have to be made I’m I’m just trying to
assess even if we had the doctrine of
absolute immunity that same allegation
and the facts related to it would come
in because the person would be arguing
that he was not acting in His official
capacity he wasn’t doing something
official he was doing it personal
correct the I agree the the objective or
I’m not sure I agree but but but the
point I would make for the response to
that is in Fitzgerald against Nixon this
court emphasized that that would result
in an intrusive uh discussion or
determination of the president’s
personal motives for every official act
and again this is not just in the case
of the president all right can I just
ask you another another quick question
uh before my colleagues take it over
here um at the beginning of your
analysis when you were giving your
opening statements you were talking
about um you know the you suggested that
the lack of immunity and the possibility
of prosecution in the presidential
context is like an innovation um and I
understood it to be the status quo I
mean I understood that every president
from the beginning of time essentially
um has understood that there was a
threat of prosecution if for no other
reason than the the Constitution
suggests that they can be prosecuted
after impeachment um that uh you know
the office of legal council has said
forever that presidents are amable to a
threat of prosecution and they have
continued to function and do their jobs
and do all the things that presidents do
so it seems to me that you are asking
now for a change in what the law is
related to immunity I would quote from
what Benjamin Franklin said at the
Constitutional Convention which I think
reflects best the founders original
understanding and intent here which is
at the Constitutional Convention
Benjamin Franklin said history provides
one example only of a chief magistrate
who is subject to public Justice
Criminal prosecution and everybody cried
out against that as no I understand but
since Benjamin Franklin everybody has
thought including the presidents who’ve
held the office that they were taking
this office subject to potential
criminal prosecution no I don’t I see
the opposite I see all the evidence
going the other way Marberry against
Madison Mississippi against Johnson
discussed this broad immunity principle
that naturally what was up with the
pardon what was up with the pardon for
President Nixon I think if everybody
thought that presidents couldn’t be
prosecuted then what what was that about
well he was under investigation for both
private and public conduct at at the
time official acts and private conduct I
think everyone has properly understood
that the president since like President
Grant’s Carriage writing incident
everyone has understood that the
president could be prosecuted counc on
on that score you there does seem to be
some common ground between the you and
your colleague on the other side that no
man’s Above the Law and that the
president can be prosecuted after he
leaves office for his private conduct is
that right we agree with that and then
the question becomes as we’ve been
exploring here today A little bit about
how to segregate private from official
conduct that may or may not uh enjoy
some immunity and we I’m sure we’re
going to spend a lot of time exploring
that but uh the DC circuit in blazing
game chief judge um there joined by the
panel expressed some views about how to
segregate private conduct for which no
man is above the law from official Acts
do you have any thoughts about the test
that they came up with there yes we
think in the main that test especially
if it’s understood through the lens of
Judge cates’s separate opinion is a very
persuasive test it would be a great
source for this court to rely on in
drawing this line and it emphasizes the
breadth of that test it talks about how
uh uh actions that are you know
plausibly connected to the president’s
official Duties are official acts and it
also emphasizes that if it’s a close
case or it appears there’s
considerations on other side that also
should be treated as immune those are
the the aspects of that that we’d
emphasize as potentially guiding the
cour that left open in that case the
possibility of further proceedings and
trial exactly right and that would be a
very natural course for this court to
take in this place the court can and
should reverse the categorical holding
of the DC circuit that there’s no such
thing as official acts especially when
it comes to but you’d agree further
proceedings would be required that is
correct there would have to be and I
would point the court to Anderson
against kraton where the court said
there’d be kind of two stages of these
further proceedings there’s looking at
the indictment itself or in that case it
was a you know a complaint but look at
the charging document itself and see
whether on the face of it this is
alleging official acts and if not or it
can’t be determined then there’d be a
factual proceeding and all that under
Mitchell against foresight and so forth
would have to occur before any other
proceedings in the district
Mr go ahead Mr s you began by explaining
why you believe that uh immunity from
Criminal process prosecution is
essential for the proper functioning of
the
presidency uh but my question is whether
the very robust form of immunity that
you’re advocating is really necessary in
order to achieve that result so just to
take one possible alternative suppose
the rule were that a former president
cannot be prosecuted for official acts
unless no plausible justification Could
Be Imagined for uh what the president
did taking into account history and
legal precedent and the information that
was provided to the president at the
time when the Act was taken would that
be sufficient or if it is insufficient
why would it be insufficient that might
be a much better rule than what emerged
in the lower courts here we think it
would be insufficient because again that
long line of cases talking about using
the president’s motives and the
intrusive sort of consideration of the
president’s motives as transforming acts
to official and unofficial uh uh would
be would come into play and of course
once you can make that allegation all of
a sudden you’ve opened the door you no
longer have a per se clear bright rine
rule you have a a determination in every
single case what if it were not what if
it did not involve any subjective
element it was purely objective you
would look objectively at the various
relevant factors that sounds to me a lot
like blazing game and especially view to
the lens of Judge cat’s a separate
opinion and that may not be different
than what we’re proposing to the court
today well blazing game had to do with
the difference between official conduct
and private conduct right that’s correct
I sorry I understood the court to be
asking that no this this would apply and
just a possibility I don’t know whether
it’s a good idea or a bad idea or
whether it can be derived from the
structure of the Constitution or the
vesting clause or any other
Source but this would be applied in a
purely objective on Purely objective
grounds when the president invokes an
official power in taking the action that
is that issue yes I believe the reason I
think of Blazing game is because it
talks about an objective context
specific determination to winnow out
what’s official and what is purely
private conduct and again in with a
strong degree of deference to what I’m
sorry I if I understood Justice Leo he
suggest in not that he’s suggesting
whether even if it is an official
act whether you still Grant immunity if
that act is not
plausibly viewed as within the
realm of
law a he can correct me if I’m wrong no
that’s that that was the question that I
think would be a superior rule than what
than the categorical denial that emerged
in the trial court here I do think it
would not I’m not quite sure why he used
the word plausible because that seems
to negate
um might as well give absolute if you’re
saying plausible because anybody could
argue
plausibility we don’t even require
plausible we require reasonable in
qualified immunity so well I mean one
might argue that it isn’t plausibly
legal to order SEAL Team Six and I I I I
don’t want to slander SEAL Team Six
because they’re no seriously they’re
honorable they’re honorable uh officers
and they are bound by the uniform code
of military Justice not to obey unlawful
orders but no I think one could say that
it’s not plausible that that is legal
that that action would be legal and and
I’m sure you thought I’ve thought of
lots of hypotheticals I’m sure you
thought of lots of hypotheticals where
president could say I’m using an
official power and yet the president
uses it in an absolutely outrageous
manner uh that if or an objective
determination May well be a uh uh an
interesting uh approach to take this so
apply it to the allegations here what is
plausible about the
president assisting in
creating a uh a fraudulent sleep of
electoral candidates ass assuming you
accept the facts of the complaint on
their
face um is that plausible that that
would be within his right to do
absolutely RoR we have the historical
President we SED in the lower courts of
President Grant sending federal troops
to Louisiana and Mississippi in 1876 to
make sure that the Republican electors
got certified in those two cases which
delivered the election to Ruther for be
Hayes uh the notion that is completely
implausible I just can’t be supported
based on the face of this indictment or
even knowing slate is fake knowing that
the Slate is fake that they weren’t
actually elected that they weren’t
certified by the state he knows all
those things the indictment itself
alleges I I dispute that
characterization the the indictment
fixes the word label to the so-called
fraudulent lectures it fixes the word
fraudulent but that’s a complete
mischaracterization on the face of the
indictment it appears that there was no
deceit about who had emerged from the
relevant State conventions and this was
being done as an alternative basis but I
want to address a more higher level
point a fundamental point which is that
uh uh as Justice Al alito’s question
indicated there’s a whole series of
structural checks other than criminal
prosecution that are designed to deter
these kind of you know outlandish
scenarios are extraordinarily obviously
illegal things and that’s been viewed in
this Court’s opinions going all the way
back to at least Mar do you think the DC
circuit went wrong in how it determined
what was official versus what’s personal
well I read I read the opinion Below in
this particular case as adopting a
categorical view it does not matter is
the the logic of their their opinion
because there is no immunity for
official acts and therefore uh uh you
know that’s the end of the story I don’t
really think they went wrong in blazing
game in the Civil context when they
engage in the same uh determination with
respect to what’s official and what
isn’t official there we agree with most
of what that opinion say and for some
official acts that are not within the
Article 2 exclusive p power so official
acts but not within the Article 2
exclusive power uh even for those I
assume you would think that a clear
statement has to be uh required a clear
statement in the statute covering the
president if the president’s official
acts are going to be criminalized
absolutely obviously the issue is you
know at the highest possible level when
it comes to the unrestrict powers like
as in this indictment the well I’m
assuming the exclusive powers Are Walled
off uh and can’t be prosecuted before
there’s a lot of official powers that
are not exclusive to the president under
his Article 2 Authority uh but for those
I understood you to be saying at a
minimum there would need to be a clear
statement in the statute referencing the
president so that the president’s on
notice uh and can um conduct himself or
herself accordingly that’s absolutely
correct and that’d be consistent both
with Franklin and public citizen in
cases along series of other clear State
can I follow up on ask you um go ahead
go ahead so you concede that private
acts don’t get immunity we do okay so in
the special council’s brief on pages 46
and 47 he urges us even if we assume
that there’s even if we were to decide
or assume that there was some sort of
immunity for official acts that there
were sufficient private acts in the
indictment for the trial to go for the
case to go back in the trial to begin
immediately and I want to know if you
agree or disagree about the
characterization of these acts is
private um petitioner turned to a
private attorney was willing to spread
knowingly false claims of election fraud
to spearhead his challenges to the
election results private as out I mean
we dispute the allegation but that
sounds private to me sounds private
petitioner conspired with another
private attorney who caused the filing
in court of a verification signed by
petitioner that contained false
allegations to support a challenge that
also sounds private three private actors
to attorneys including those mentioned
above and a political consultant helped
Implement a plan to submit fraud slates
of presidential electors to obstruct the
certification proceeding and petitioner
and a co-conspirator attorney directed
that effort uh you read it quickly I
believe that’s private I don’t want to
so those acts you would not dispute
those were private and you wouldn’t
raise a claim that they were official as
characterize what we would say your
honor if I may what we would say as
official is things like meeting with the
Department of Justice to deliberate
about who’s going to be the acting
Attorney General of the United States
communicating with the American public
communicating with Congress about
matters of enormous fa concern thank you
uh thank you Council and what is the
consequence in terms of going forward
with your uh acknowledgement that those
are private acts as opposed to official
acts if you look at the uh if you look
at the uh uh the indictment here there’s
a bunch of Acts that we think are just
clearly official there may be
allegations that mostly relate to what
the government has described here as
private aim or private end and the court
should remand or or address itself but
remand for a Brewster likee
determination which is what’s official
and what’s private the official stuff
has to be expunged completely from the
indictment before the case can go
forward and there has to be a
determination at least on remand of
what’s official two-stage determination
of what’s official and what’s private
well if you expunge the official part
from the indictment how do you I mean
that’s like a a one-legged stool right I
mean giving somebody money isn’t bribery
unless you get something in exchange and
if what you get in exchange is to become
the ambassador to a particular country
uh that is official the appointment
that’s within the president prerogatives
The Unofficial part is I’m going to get
a million dollars for it so if you say
you have to expunge uh the official part
how does that go forward uh this
particular D we say virtually all the
over conduct is official we don’t
believe it would be able to go forward I
mean there could be a case where it
would but if you look at even the
government’s brief in this case divides
up the indictment into things that other
than the uh
elector allegations don’t
really are they haven’t disputed that
they are official acts but what they do
is say well we tie it all together by
characterizing it as done and these are
the allegations that uh the court just
referred to by an improper private aim
or private end again that’s their words
and that just runs loggerheads you know
Dead Set against this Court’s case law
say you don’t look at with immunity
determinations the the the motive
improper motivation or purpose thank you
justice
Thomas uh Mr s uh in assessing the uh uh
official Act Act of a president do you
differentiate between President acting
as president and the president acting as
candidate yes we do and we don’t dispute
essentially the Blazing game discussion
of that okay of course that has to be
done by objective determinations not by
looking at what was the purpose of what
you did this that’s the most important
point there uh did you uh uh in this
litigation challenge the appointment of
special counsel not directly we have
done so in the southern district of
Florida a case and we totally agree with
the analysis provided by attorney
general me and attorney general mukey
and and it points to a very important
issue here because one of their
arguments is of course that uh uh you
know we should have this presumption of
regularity that runs into the reality
that we have here an extraordinary
prosecutorial power being exed by
someone who was never uh uh uh nominated
by the president or or or confirmed by
the Senate at any time so uh we agree
with that position we we we hadn’t
raised it yet in this case when this
case went up on
appeal Justice Alo when you say that the
official act should be expunged from the
indictment that in itself would not
achieve very much
unless uh evidence of those official
Acts were precluded at trial so is that
what you’re saying that the prosecution
should not be permitted at trial to
prove the official acts as part of the
conspiracies that are alleged absolutely
and we think that’s just the clear
implications of Brewster and John and
their discussion is very in a very
analogous context thank you just I’m a
little bit confused by that um if you
have a scheme to defraud um or a scheme
to accept bribery there’s evidence from
which you can infer that scheme and one
of it is that the appointment actually
happened it’s an official act you
wouldn’t expunge that as evidence you
would instruct the jury that there’s no
liability for the actual appointment
that the liability is for accepting the
bribe similarly here I don’t think the
indictment is charging that the
obstruction um occurred solely because
of conversations with the justice
department they’re saying you look at
all of the private acts and you look in
the context of some of the public acts
and you can infer
the intent the private
intent from them so I’m not sure that I
understand why your problems couldn’t be
taken care of at trial with an
instruction if we believed if the court
were to find I’m not even sure how they
could but if it were to find that some
public acts could not be the basis of
criminal
liability I think the best thing I can
say to that uh uh is is and I think this
ties into the chief Justice’s question
about a one-legged stool Brewster and
Johnson in subsequent cases like Kowski
versus meaner essentially say that that
this is a one-legged stool problem it
will be difficult for some of these
prosecutions to proceed and that is the
implications of official immunity which
is dictated in the Constitution here by
the executive besting
Clause Justice Kagan can I continue on
in in Justice Barrett’s vein a little
bit and ask you about some of the
allegations of the indictment and
whether their official acts are not in
your view so um the defendant signed a
verification affirming false election
fraud allegations made on his behalf and
a lawsuit filed in his name against the
Georgia government Governor uh I don’t
think we’ve disputed that that’s
official I I’m sorry that that is
unofficial that that’s unofficial same
for the defendant called the chairwoman
of the Republican National Committee
asked her to gather electors in targeted
States falsely represented to her that
such votes would be used only if ongoing
litigation in one of the states changed
the results in the defendant’s favor we
have taken the position that that is
official that’s official yes why would
that be official because the
organization of alternate slates of
electors is for based on for example the
historical uh uh example of President
Grant is something that was done
pursuant to and ancillary and
Preparatory to the exercise of the core
recommendation Clause power so when
President Trump could couldn’t he have
taken this action just in the status of
a candidate the fact that he could have
done so doesn’t demonstrate that he did
do so in this case and based on the
allegations we think it’s clear he did
not that this was done in an official
capacity the defendant asked the Arizona
House speaker to call the legislature
into session to hold a hearing based on
their claims of election fraud
absolutely an official act for the
president to communicate with State
officials on a matter of enormous
Federal interest and concern attempting
to defend the uh uh the Integrity of a
federal election to communicate with
State officials and urge them to view
what he views as their job uh uh under
state law and federal law that’s an
official act well attempting to defend
the Integrity of the election I mean
that’s the defense the allegation is
that he was attempting to
overthrow an election essentially
exactly right and neither allegation of
what the purpose is should make it
determinate should make a difference as
to whether it’s immune that is extremely
strong precedent from this court does it
um does it strike you as a that your
understanding of uh immunity goes Way
Beyond what olc has ever claimed for the
a former president I view the olc
opinions here as strongly supporting us
because anytime a congressional statute
basically got anywhere near touching the
president’s prerogatives they’ve said oh
we’re going to interpret the statute
narrowly to avoid that well that’s a
different question I mean uh what olc
has always said is that sitting
presidents get immunity but former
presidents no now there might be
um uh a different argument made about
whether a statute or whether a statute
as applied to particular conduct uh is
is is uh properly um uh available
against the president but that’s a very
different argument than the immunity
claim that you’re making here which olc
has definitively not supported I don’t I
don’t know if I put it that way I don’t
recall an opinion directly addressing it
but more fundamental to us your honor is
in fact the language of like Marbury and
statements like made by Benjamin
Franklin at the Constitutional
Convention statements of George
Washington talking about the massive
risk of factional strife and how that
could destroy the Republic and erect a
new government on the ruins of public
Liberty that’s what we rely on
principally here I cite the olc opinions
because of course what you see there is
a very strong Trend that if there’s any
statute that might trench in any way on
the president’s prerogatives which they
they adop they interpret it to avoid
that um
if a president sells nuclear secrets to
a foreign adversary is that immune that
sounds like similar to the bribery
example likely not immune now if it’s
structured as an official act he would
have to be impeached and convicted first
before what does that mean if it’s
structured as an official act well I
don’t know in the hypothetical whether
or not that would be an official act you
probably have to have more details to
apply the Blazing game uh analysis or
even the Fitzgerald analysis that we’ve
been talking about how about if a
president um orders the military to
Stage a
coup I think that as the Chief Justice
pointed out earlier where there is a
whole series of you know sort
of guidelines against that so to speak
like the UCMJ prohibits the military
from following a plain F unlawful act if
one adopted Justice Alo test that would
fall outside now if one adopts for
example the Fitzgerald test that we
Advanced that might well be an official
act and he would have to be as I’ll say
in response to all these kinds of
hypotheticals uh has to be impeached and
convicted before he can be criminally
prosecuted but I emphasize to the court
that well he’s gone let’s say this
president who ordered the military to
Stage a coup he’s no longer president he
wasn’t impeached he couldn’t be
impeached um but but he ordered the
military to Stage a coup and you’re
saying that’s an official act uh I think
it would depend on immune I think it
would depend on the circumstances
whether it was an official act if it
were an official act again he would have
to be imp what does that mean depend on
the circumstances he was the president
he um uh is the commanderin-chief um he
talks to his generals all the time and
he told the generals I don’t feel like
leaving office I want to Stage Jak coup
is is is that immune if if it’s an
official act there needs to be
impeachment and conviction beforehand
because the framers viewed the RI that
that kind of it’s an official Act is it
an official act if it’s an official act
it’s Impe it in official on on the way
you described that hypothetical it could
well be I I just don’t know you’d have
to again it’s a fact specific context
specific determination that answer
sounds to me as though it’s like yeah
under my test it’s an official act but
that sure sounds bad doesn’t it well it
certainly sounds very bad and that’s why
the framers have and that’s why the
framers have a whole series of
structural checks that have successfully
for the last 234 years prevented that
very kind of extreme hypothetical and
that is the wisdom of the framers what
they viewed as the risk that needed to
be guarded against was not the F the
notion that the president might Escape
you have a criminal prosecution for
something you know sort of very very
unlikely in these unlikely scenarios
they viewed much more likely and much
more destructive to The Republic the
risk of factional strife discussed by
George Washington frers did not put an
Immunity Clause into the Constitution
they knew how to there were immunity
Clauses in some state constitutions they
knew how to give legislative immunity
they didn’t provide immunity to the
president and you know not so surprising
they were reacting against a monarch who
claimed to be above the law wasn’t the
point that the president was not a
monarch and the president was not
supposed to be above the law uh I would
say two things in response to that uh
immunity they did put an Immunity Clause
in in a sense they put in the executive
vesting clause which was originally
understood to have to adopt a broad
immunity principle that’s set forth in
the very broad language of Marbury
against Madison and also they did
discuss and consider what would be the
checks on the presidency and they did
not say oh we need to have criminal
prosecution right there at the con
convention Benjamin Franken says we
don’t have that that’s not an option
everybody cried out against that as
unconstitutional the structural check
we’re adopting his impeachment and it’s
very clear on that in Pages 64 to 69 of
the second volume of faren thank you
justice Gorsuch just returning to the
chief Justice’s hypothetical about the
Ambassador sale uh and bribery um
Congress has a statute that specifically
names the president and says he can be
um
uh criminally prosecuted for bribery
presumably after he leaves office um
outside the core areas that that Justice
Kavanaugh was talking about when
Congress speaks clearly couldn’t a
statute like that Congress provide a
statute like that that would allow all
manner of evidence to come in to prove
the case I think our position is that
would have to be an unofficial act
purely private conduct for that
prosecution to go forward all right but
but outside the core areas of executive
power if there is a clear statement from
Congress that something is unlawful and
it applies to the president I’m
struggling to see why in that case
perhaps uh the evidence could come in
yeah the strongest possible case in our
view is what you’ve described as kind of
the core executive powers the unrestrict
powers within the meaning of CA law but
again the holding of for example
Brewster and Johnson that we’ve relied
on doesn’t turn on how Central it is of
a legislative act it just as if it’s an
official act which here we would say is
applies basically the Outer Perimeter
test of Fitzgerald against Nixon that
doesn’t come in what would happen if if
presidents were under uh fear fear that
their successors would criminally
prosecute them for their acts in office
whether it’s whether they’re engaged in
drone stri all the hypotheticals I’m not
going to go through them um it seems to
me like one of the incentives that might
be created is for presidents to try to
Pardon themselves do you have any
thoughts about that that is uh think of
that until your honor asset that is
certainly one incentive that might be
creative what we think is most important
we’ve never answered whether a president
can do that um happily it’s never been
presented to us and if if the doctrine
of immunity remains in place that’s
likely to remain the case uh for those
very issues as Fitzgerald I think very
powerfully emphasized the real concern
here is they’re going to be bold and
fearless action is the president going
to have to make a controversial decision
where his political opponents are going
to come after him the minute he leaves
office is that going to unduly deter is
that going to dampen the ardor of that
president to do what our constitutional
structure demands of him or her which is
bold and fearless action in the face of
controversy and perhaps if he feels he
has to he’ll pardon himself every every
four years from now on but that as the
court pointed out wouldn’t provide the
security because the legality of that
that is something that’s never been
addressed now one of the checks and
balances in addition to um impeachment
that you’ve discussed is subordinate
liability um you don’t contest that
everybody following an unlawful order
beneath the president of the United
States can be immediately prosecuted do
you I’m sorry the cour is asking whether
they could if the president gives an
unlawful order uh calling the troops
what all the examples we’ve
heard every subordinate beneath him
faces criminal prosecution don’t they uh
that is what Governor Morris said
explicitly at the Constitutional
Convention that his co- agitators could
be prosecuted there is an important
caveat because of course there would
have to be a uh a statute that would
govern that for them to be prosecuted
we’ got lots of statutes the criminal
law books are are replete but I mean do
you agree is that one check that’s
available absolutely and again the only
caveat that I was making is if that
statute was doing what Marbury says you
can’t do which is going after the
subordinates to restrict for example a
core executive function the Franklin
clear statement rule might be triggered
and you might not be able to go after
that President so I don’t think Congress
can say well we can’t go after the
president directly but we’re going to
criminalize the way that the president
speaks to Congress under the exercise of
the recommendations clause and therefore
we’re going to put in a criminal statute
that says if you provide false
information to Congress in carrying out
the president’s recommendation Powers
you you can be immediately prosecuted
that would least be a very difficult
question but the fundamental point of
drawing that distinction between the
president himself and his co- agitators
in the word of Governor Morris the
Constitutional Convention is an
excellent
distinction Justice Kavanaugh just
follow up on the olc opinions question
uh as you read them and I think I read
them they articulate a clear statement
rule as to this Court’s cases uh for
covering official acts and your point I
think but I just want to underscore for
this is that none of the statutes
alleged here or cited here have a clear
statement covering the president
therefore meaning that the president uh
can’t be charged for any official acts
under this under these statutes that’s
absolutely correct they’re extended Way
Beyond I mean this that’s separate from
the question what’s official versus
what’s personal but for that bucket that
is official there’s no clear statement
period that’s right and as to purely
private conduct we don’t think that
clear statement rule would be invoked
but as to official acts uh these
statutes the ones charged in the
indictment are just way far a field from
purporting to criminal eyes in clear
terms uh the president’s official acts
and then um you’re just to clarify this
the the president’s not above the law
the president’s not a king the founders
thought that um I think your point in
response to that is the president is
subject to prosecution for all personal
acts just like every other American for
personal acts the question is
acts taken in official capacity that’s
correct and even those of course if
there was impeachment and conviction
could be prosecuted on our view and we’d
emphasized a whole series of structural
checks in addition to that uh uh uh
which deter those kind and have
successfully deterred presidential Mis
fees for 234 years then on the source of
immunity it’s not explicit in the
Constitution but also uh executive
privilege is not explicit in the
Constitution yet in United States versus
Nixon the court unanimously said
that the Article 2 executive power in
the Constitution encompassed executive
privilege and the same principle
presumably would apply to Executive
immunity being encompassed within that
executive power is historically
understood that’s absolutely correct and
there’s a very telling passage in free
enterprise fund where this court talked
about how there’s a letter from James
Madison to Thomas Jefferson at the time
of the founding where Madison said hey
the S removal power they did not
expressly take this away so the 7 9
Congress understood that it was left in
place so if the original understanding
of the executive investing Clause is
Broad enough to Encompass that it would
have to be expressly taken away which is
the opposite of the presumption that
they’re advancing here and then lastly I
think you’ve acknowledged in response to
others questions that some of the acts
in the indictment are private and your
view is that some are official is it
your position then that that analysis of
which is which should be undertaken in
the first instance by the DC circuit or
the district court most likely the
district court under the logic of
Anderson thank you justice
Barrett so Mr SAU you’ve argued that the
impeachment Clause suggests or requires
impeachment to be a gateway to criminal
prosecution right yes I think that’s the
plain meaning of that second phrase in
the Clause okay so there are many other
people who are subject to impeachment
including the nine sitting on this bench
and I don’t think anyone has ever
suggested that impeachment would have to
be the gateway to criminal prosecution
for any of the many other officers
subject to impeachment so why is the
president different when the impeachment
Clause doesn’t say so someone very
important has made the opposite
suggestion as to the president himself
which is solicitor general bour which is
reformed in the olc opinions on this
where the where solic General bour in
1973 as to the issue of the vice
president reviewed the historical
materials and he said the sequence is
mandatory only as to the president that
is doj’s view of the original
understanding of the impeachment
judgment clause which is exactly our
position the sequence is mandatory only
as to the president keep in mind that
the criminal prosecution of a president
president prior to impeachment
contradicts in our view the plain
language of the Constitution but also
hundreds of years of history and what
doj admits is the framer’s intent and so
we say that that practice whatever its
validity should not be extended to this
novel context where it clashes with the
Constitutional if criminal conduct isn’t
discovered until after the president is
out of office so there was no
opportunity for impeachment we say the
framers assumed the risk that of under
enforcement by adopting these very
structural checks as Justice Scalia said
in Morrison against Olsen the separation
of powers uh uh prevents us from writing
every wrong but it does so that we do
not lose Liberty okay and and the
special Council makes uh a point that I
think is a pretty compelling one you
admit that if the president were
successfully impeached that he could be
criminally prosecuted after impeachment
right yeah assuming the prosecution was
for the same conduct of which he was
convicted not impeached he must be
convicted that word conviction is right
there in the Clause okay granted um but
you also say that these criminal
statutes unless they explicitly mention
the president don’t apply to him so how
can you say that he would be subject to
prosecution after impeachment while at
the same time saying that he’s exempt
from these criminal statutes well there
are statutes as they concede were
president Congress has pered to two or
three they haven’t done a comprehensive
review I think this looks like all they
did was Tech search for president in 18
us code again under Franklin that’s a
very telling indication that the word
president is not in the statute is it
necessarily a a a magic word requirement
so to speak but more fundamentally than
that more fundamentally than that they
can see there are statutes that exist in
addition to that much impeachment could
occur as a result of private conduct so
the impeachment judgment Clause does do
significant work by authorizing the
subsequent prosecution of a president
there because what the framers if you
look at what they’re discussing in the
thing is in the Constitutional
Convention is principally concerns about
private conduct which of course we can
see or not immune okay so just to pick
up justice kagan’s example of a
president who orders a coup let’s
imagine that he is impeached and
convicted for ordering that coup and
let’s just accept for the sake of
argument your position that that was
official conduct you’re saying that he
couldn’t be prosecuted for that even
after conviction and an impeachment
proceeding if there was not a statute
that expressly
referenced the president and made it
criminal for the president there would
have to be a a statute that made a clear
statement that Congress purported to
regulate the president’s conduct okay
thank you justice Jackson so I think I
Now understand better your position um
in in your discussions with Justice
Kavanaugh became clear that you are
saying that for the private acts of a
president there’s no immunity but for
the official acts of the president there
is immunity is that your position I
agree with that all right um so one
thing that occurs to me is that this
sort of difficult line drawing problem
that we’re having with all of these
hypotheticals is this a private act or a
Public Act um is being necessitated by
that assumption because of course if
official acts didn’t get absolute
immunity then it would matter we
wouldn’t have to identify which are
private and which are public correct
that in fact is the approach of the DC
circuit there’s no determination that
needs to be made but I’m just I’m just
making so to the extent we’re worried
about like how do we figure out whether
it’s private or public we have to we
have to understand that we’re only doing
that because of an underlying assumption
that the public acts get immunity so let
me explore that assumption um why is it
as a matter of theory and I’m hoping you
can sort of Zoom way out here that the
president um would not be required to
follow the law when he is Prof
performing his official acts everyone
else everyone else there are lots of
folks who have very uh high-powered jobs
who make a lot of consequential
decisions and they do so against the
backdrop of potential criminal
prosecution if they should uh break the
law in that um capacity and we
understand and we know as a matter of
fact that the president of United States
has the best lawyers in the world when
he’s making a decision he can consult
with pretty much anybody as to whether
or not this thing is criminal or not so
why would we have a situation in which
we would say that the President should
be making official acts without any uh
responsibility for following the law I
respectfully disagree with that
characterization the president
absolutely does have responsibility he
absolutely is required to follow the law
in all of his official acts but the
remedy for that is the question could he
be subject to personal vulnerability
sent to prison for making a bad decision
after he leaves office but but other
people who have consequential jobs and
who are required to follow the law make
those determinations against the
backdrop of that same kind of risk so
what is it about the president um I mean
I’ve heard you say it’s because the
president has to be able to act boldly
do you know make kind of consequential
decisions I mean sure but again there
are lots of people who have to make life
and death kinds of decisions and yet
they still have to follow the law and if
they don’t they could be sent to prison
etc etc so I say two things in response
to that both from Fitzgerald that’s the
very uh uh sort of inference or
reasoning that this court rejected in
Fitzgerald no but let me just Fitzgerald
was a civil situation in which the
president actually was in a different
position than other people because of
the nature of his job the high-profile
nature and the fact that he touches so
many different things when you’re
talking about private civil liability
you know anybody on the street can sue
him we could see that the president was
sort of different than the ordinary
person when you say should he be immune
from civil liability from anybody who
wants to sue him but when we’re talking
about criminal liability I don’t
understand how the president stands in
any different position with respect to
the need to follow the law as he is
doing his job than anyone else he he is
required to follow the law and what not
if there’s no criminal prose if there’s
no threat of criminal prosecution what
prevents the president from just doing
whatever he wants all the structural
checks that are identified in Fitzgerald
and a whole series of this Court’s cases
that go back to Martin against M for
example impeachment oversight by
Congress uh public oversight there’s a
long series of them Fitzgerald directly
addresses this in the Civil context and
we think that Lang naturally PS I’m not
sure that’s that that that’s much of a
back stop and what I’m I guess more
worried about you seem to be worried
about the president being chilled I
think that we would have a significant
opposite problem if the president wasn’t
chilled if someone with those kinds of
powers the most powerful person in the
world with the greatest amount of
authority um could go into office
knowing that there would be no potential
penalty for committing crimes I’m trying
to understand what the disincentive is
from turning the Oval Office into um you
know the the the the seat of criminal
activity in this country
uh I don’t think there’s any allegation
of that in this case and what George
Washington said is what Benjamin
Franklin said is we view the prosecution
of a chief executive is something that
everybody cried out against is
unconstitutional and what George
Washington said is we’re worried about
factional Strife which will no Al let me
let me let me put this worry on the
table if the potential for criminal
liability is taken off the table
wouldn’t there be a significant risk
that future presidents would be
emboldened to commit crimes with a
abandon while they’re in office it’s
right now the fact that we’re having
this debate because olc has said that
presidents might be prosecuted um
presidents from the beginning of time
have understood that that’s a
possibility that might be what has kept
this office from turning into the kind
of uh crime Center that I’m envisioning
but once we say no criminal liability Mr
President you can do whatever you want
I’m worried that we would have a worse
problem than the problem of the
president feeling constrained to follow
the law while he’s in office I
respectfully disagree with that because
the the regime you’ve described is the
regime we’ve operated under for 234
years there has not been an expectation
based on 234 years of unbroken political
let me ask you another question let me
ask you another question about this
clear statement um line of questioning
first of all I I didn’t see you argue
that below I don’t know I understand
that you have that set of in your briefs
here but did you argue before the DC
circuit something about a clear
statement with respect to statutes uh
yes uh in our separately filed motion
for motion dismiss based on statutory
grounds we extensively argued not just
this clear statement rule but a whole
panel right but that’s not that’s not
the question presented in this case the
question presented in this case comes
out of your motion for immunity so to
bring in now an argument that you didn’t
raise below it seems to me you forfeited
it no I believe it’s fairly included
within the question presented especially
especially because the court expanded
the question presented from what either
of the parties submitted but not to
statutory interpretation I mean that
that argument goes to statutory invo
avoidance um you know con constitutional
avoidance statutory interpretation you
asked for immunity which is a totally
different thing I think they’re very
closely related logically the question
is is does immunity exist and to what
extent does it and the argument is
immunity at least exists to an extent
that it raises a grave constitutional
question that triggers the clear
statement rule that’s a really
circular you you use that argument to
avoid constitutional questions you are
asking us a constitutional question here
so it doesn’t even make sense to talk
about clear statement in rule the way
that it’s come up in the context of an
immunity question but let me just let me
ask you this um about it uh I had one
more question
um yeah so what what is the argument
that the president United States who you
say is bound by the law is not on notice
that he has to do his job consistent
with the law I mean to the extent that
the clear statement rule comes in at all
it’s about the person not being on
notice so I I guess I don’t understand
why Congress in every criminal statute
would have to say and the president is
included I thought that was the sort of
background understanding that if they’re
in acting a generally applicable
criminal statute it applies to the
president just like everyone else so so
what is the clear statement that would
have to be made in this context under
Franklin and under public citizen
Congress has to speak clearly before it
interferes of the president’s powers and
we have here an indictment that seeks to
criminalize objective conduct that falls
within the heartland of core executive
Authority thank you thank you
Council Mr
drien Mr chief justice and may it please
the court this court has never
recognized
absolute criminal immunity for any
public official petitioner however
claims that a former president has
permanent criminal immunity for his
official acts unless he was first
impeached and convicted his novel Theory
would immunize former presidents for
criminal liability for bribery treason
sedition murder and here conspiring to
use fraud to overturn the results of an
election and perpetuate himself in power
such presidential immunity has no
foundation in the
Constitution the framers Knew Too Well
the dangers of a king who could do no
wrong they therefore devised a system to
check abuses of power especially the use
of official power for private
gain here the executive branch is
enforcing Congressional statutes and
seeking accountability for petitioners
alleged misuse use of official power to
subvert
democracy that is a compelling public
interest in response petitioner raises
concerns about potential abuses but
established legal safeguards provide
layers of protections with the article 3
courts providing the ultimate check the
existing system is a carefully balanced
framework it protects the President but
not at the High constit tional cost of
blanket criminal
immunity that has been the understanding
of every president from the framing
through Watergate and up to today this
court should preserve it I welcome the
Court’s
questions uh Mr dben uh does the
president um have immunity uh or uh are
you saying that there’s no immunity
presidential immunity even for official
acts yes Justice Thomas but I think that
it’s important to put in perspective the
position that we are offering the court
today uh the president as the head of
the Article 2 Branch can assert as
applied Article 2 objections to criminal
laws that interfere with an exclusive
power possessed by the president or that
prevent the president from accomplishing
his constitutionally assigned functions
that is the Constitutional Doctrine that
currently governs the separation of
powers what petitioner is asking for is
a broad blanket immunity that would
protect the president a former president
from any criminal exposure absent
impeachment and conviction which has
never happened in our history and we
submit that is not necessary in order to
assure that the president can perform
all of the important tasks that the
constitution reposes in him uh over over
in not so distant past uh the presidents
or certain presidents have engaged
in uh various uh activity coups or uh
Pro operations like operation Mongoose
when I was a a
teenager uh and yet there were no
prosecutions uh why if you if what
you’re saying is right it would seem
that that was have been ripe for uh
criminal prosecution of someone so
Justice Thomas I think this is a central
question the reason why uh there have
not been prior criminal prosecutions is
that there were not crimes and I want to
explain why there are layers of
safeguards that assure that former
presidents do not have to lightly assume
criminal liability for any of their
official acts at the outset there is a
statutory construction principle that is
applicable here it arises when there is
a serious constitutional question about
applying a criminal statute to the
president’s acts it is not and I’m sure
that we will discuss this that no
statute can apply to the president in
His official capacity absent a
designation of the president in it but
there is a principle that if there is a
serious constitutional question courts
will strive to construe the statute so
that it does not apply to to the
president in addition to that the
president I think has been mentioned
earlier has access to advice from the
attorney general and it would be a due
process problem to prosecute a president
who received advice from the attorney
general that his actions were lawful
absent the kind of collusion or
conspiracy that itself represented a
criminal violation which I don’t really
see as being a realistic option and then
if I could say one more thing because
you raised the question about uh
potential overseas taking of life and
the office of legal counsel has
addressed this quite specifically there
is a background principle of criminal
law called the Public Authority uh
exception to liability and it is read
into federal law unless Congress takes
specific action to OU it which it never
has done as far as I am aware and in a
case in which the uh president sought to
engage engage in overseas activity that
would result in The Taking of Life olc
did not say the federal murder statute
doesn’t apply that would be the the
thrust of my friend’s argument on clear
statement instead olc went through an
extensive analysis on why the Public
Authority defense would prevent it from
being considered a violation of law to
go after a terrorist for
example um the court of appeals below
whose decision were reviewing said quote
a former president can be prosecuted for
his official acts because the fact of
the prosecution means that the former
president has allegedly acted in
defiance of the laws do you agree with
that
statement well I think it sounds
tautologically true but I I want to
underscore that the obligation of a
president is to take care that the laws
are Faithfully executed well I the re I
think it sounds tautologically true as
well and that I think is the clearest
statement of the Court’s holding which
is why it concerns me it as I read it it
says simply a former president can be
prosecuted because he’s being prosecuted
well I I would not suggest that that’s
either the proper approach in this case
or certainly not the government’s
approach um a prosecution does of course
invoke uh Federal Criminal Law the
allegations have to be presented to a
grand jury which votes upon the
indictment well that’s what I I mean
shortly after that statement in the
court that Court’s opinion that’s what
they said but there’s no reason to worry
because the prosecutor will act in good
faith and there’s no reason to worry
because a grand jury will have return
the indictment now you know how easy it
is in many cases for a prosecutor to get
a grand jury to uh bring an indictment
and Reliance on the fa good faith of the
prosecutor um may not be uh enough in
the uh some cases I’m not suggesting
here um so if it’s tological and those
are the only protections that the court
of appeals below gave and that is no
longer your position you’re not
defending that position why shouldn’t we
either send it back to the court of
appeals or uh issue an opinion making
clear that that’s not the law well I I
am defending the court of appeals
judgment and I do think that there are
layered safeguards that the court can
take into account that will amarate
concerns about unduly chilling
presidential conduct that concerns us we
are not endorsing a regime that we think
would expose former presidents to
criminal prosecution in bad faith for
political animus without adequate
evidence uh a politically driven
prosecution would violate the
constitution under weight versus United
States it’s not something within the
Arsenal of prosecu UT to do prosecutors
take an oath the Attorney General takes
an oath so well I don’t want to
overstate the your Honor’s concern with
potentially relying solely on good faith
but that’s an ingredient and then the
courts stand ready to adjudicate motions
based on Selec a prosecution political
animus this court relied on those very
Protections in advance case just two
years AG but what what concerns me is as
you know the court of appeals did not
get into a focus consideration of what
acts we’re talking about or what
documents we’re talking about because of
its adoption of what you termed and I
agree quite correctly as a tological
statement because the fact of
prosecution was enough enough to take
away any official immunity the fact of
prosecution they had no need to look at
what courts normally look at when you’re
talking about a privilege or immunity
question well I think I would take issue
Mr chief justice with the idea of taking
away immunity there is no immunity that
is in the Constitution unless this court
creates it today there certainly is no
textual immunity we do not submit that
that’s the end of the story United
States versus Nixon wasn’t a textually
based case neither was Nixon versus
Fitzgerald we endorse both of those
Holdings but what is important is that
no public official has ever had the kind
of abs absolute criminal immunity that
my friend speaks of even with respect to
the speecher debate clause it’s very
narrow it’s focused on legislative acts
it’s not focused on everything that a
congressman does and it responds to a
very specific historical circumstance
that basically involved the two other
branches uh potentially harassing
legislators and preventing them from
doing their jobs that’s why it ended up
in the Constitution nothing like that
ended up in uh in the constitution for
the presidents and that’s because one of
the chief concerns of the framers was
the risk of presidential misconduct they
labored over this they adopted an
impeachment uh structure that separated
removal from office as a political
remedy from Criminal prosecution this
departed from the British model the
British model was you get impeached and
criminally prosecuted and convicted in
the same proceeding the framers did not
want that they wanted a political remedy
in case a president was engaging in
conduct that endangered the nation he
could be removed he can’t be prosecuted
while he’s a sitting president that’s
been the long-standing justice
department position Mr dben you dispute
the proposition that a former president
has some form of immunity but as I
understand your argument you do
recognize that a former president has a
form of special protection namely that
statutes that are applicable to
everybody must be interpreted
differently under some circumstances
when they are applied to a former
president isn’t that true it is true
because Justice Alo of the general
principle that courts constru statutes
to avoid serious constitutional
questions and that has been the
long-standing practice of the office of
legal counsel in the Department of
Justice all right so this is
more I think than just a a quarrel about
terminology whether what the former
president gets is some form of immunity
or some form of special protection
because it involves this difference
which I’m sure you’re very well aware of
if it’s just a form of special
protection in other words statutes will
be interpreted differently as applied to
a former president then uh that is
something that has to be litigated at
trial the the former president can make
a motion to dismiss and may cite olc
opinions and the district court may say
well that’s fine I’m not bound by olc
and I interpret it differently so let’s
go to trial and then there has to be a
trial and that may involve uh great
expense and it may take up a lot of time
and during the trial the the former
president may be unable to engage in
other activities that the former
president would want to to engage in and
then the outcome is dependent on the
jury the instructions to the jury and
how the jury returns a verdict and then
it has to be taken up on appeal so the
protection is greatly diluted if you
take the form uh if it takes the form
that you have proposed and why is that
better it’s better because it’s more
balanced the the blanket immunity that
petitioner is arguing for just means
that Criminal prosecution is off the
table unless he says that impeachment
and conviction have occurred those are
political remedies that are extremely
difficult to achieve in a case where the
conduct misconduct occurs close to the
end of a president’s term Congress is
unlikely to crank up the Machinery to do
it and if the impeachment trial has to
occur after the president has left
office there’s an open question about
whether that can happen at all so you’re
arguing against most far reaching uh
aspects of of Mr Sour’s argument right
that that is that is correct and and let
me turn then to why what about uh to
unpack it a little more uh do you agree
that there are some aspects of Article 2
Presidential Power that are exclusive
and that Congress cannot regulate and
therefore cannot criminalize absolutely
okay for other official acts that the
president may take that are not within
that exclusive power uh assume for the
sake of argument this question that
there’s not blanket immunity for those
official acts but that to preserve the
separation of powers to provide Fair
notice to make sure Congress has thought
about this that Congress has to speak
clearly to criminalize official acts of
the president uh by a specific reference
that seems to be what the olc opinions
suggest I know you have a little bit of
a disagreement with that and what this
Court’s cases is also suggest so Jus kav
I’d like like to take all of those in
turn because I don’t think this Court’s
cases speak that broadly I definitely
don’t think that the office of legal
counsel opinions stand for this broad
proposition that unless the president is
specifically named he’s not in in the
statute and I don’t think that that’s
necessary in order to afford adequate
protection for the president’s valid
article to functions you said unless I
sorry to interrupt but I want to just
get this out and you can incorporate in
the answerer you said unless there’s a
serious constitutional
question well it’s isn’t it’s a serious
constitutional question whether a
statute can be applied to the
president’s official act so wouldn’t you
always uh interpret the statute not to
apply to the president even under your
formulation unless Congress had spoken
with some clarity I I don’t think across
the board that as serious constitutional
question exists on applying any criminal
statute to the president the problem is
the vague that you know obstruction and
3 371 conspiracy to fraud of the United
States can be used against a lot of
presidential activities historically
with an uh creative prosecutor who wants
to go after a president well let me try
to backra that’s what we’re talking
about historically is the risk that and
and going forward the the risk so you
can take all of that I I think that the
the question about the risk is very
serious and obvious viously it is a
question that this court has to evaluate
for the executive branch our view is
that there is a a balanced protection
that better serves the interest of the
Constitution that incorporates both
accountability and protection for the
president and I want to go through the
protections that do exist but perhaps
it’s worth returning uh at the outset to
the statutory construction question that
you raised the office of legal counsel
has said uh the offense of bribery of
course uh applies to the president it
does not name the president just as
courses section 201 does not
specifically name the president assume
that’s personal so well I I think that
that’s what Brewster said bribery
statute
607 says the president I’ve got it in
front of me and so there is there is
that let me just back up though just a
second to what was a quick exchange with
Justice kav that I just want to make
sure I understand yeah did you agree
that there are some core functions of
the executive that uh president conduct
that Congress cannot criminalize yes we
so is is that a form I mean we can call
it immunity or you can call it they
can’t do it but what’s the difference we
call it an as applied Article 2
challenge that okay okay can we call it
immunity just for shorthand sake so we
so I think we are kind of narrowing the
ground of dispute here it seems to me
there is some some area you you concede
that an official acts that Congress
cannot criminalize and now we’re just
talking about the scope well I don’t
think it’s a just but I think it’s a
very significant gap between any
official Act and the small core of
exclusive official act I I I got that
but I want to explore that okay so for
example let’s say a president leads a
mostly peaceful protest sit in in front
of Congress uh because he objects to a
a piece of legislation that’s going
through and it in fact delays the
proceedings in Congress now under 1512
C2 uh that might be corruptly impeding
uh a proceed an official proceeding
could is that core and therefore
immunized or whatever word euphemism you
want to use for that or is that not core
and therefore prosecutable well without
a clear statement that applies to the
president it’s not it’s not core the
core kinds of activities that the court
has acknowledged are the things that I
would run through the Youngstown
analysis and it’s a pretty small set but
things like the pardon power the power
to recognize foreign Nations the power
to veto legislation the power to make
appointments these are things that the
constitution specifically allocates to
the president once you get out so a
president then could be prosecuted for
the conduct I described abs leaves
office probably not but I want to
explain the framework of of why uh I
don’t think that that would be uh
prosecution that would be valid um first
I think you need to run through all of
the sort of normal uh categories of
analysis is there a serious
constitutional question that’s posed by
applying that statute to the president
if so then you may well default to it
does not apply at least on that fact I
thought you said it
that was my question and you said it it
fell outside that core we’ll call it
immunity for Simplicity sake yes I
understand but there’s a there’s a
separate category okay so why couldn’t
he be prosecuted for leading a civil
rights protest in front of the capital
that that delays a vote on a piece of
important legislation so I think what
you need to do is run through all of the
very president specific protective
layers of analysis so one of them is
whether the statute would be construed
not to apply to his conduct even if it’s
not uh part of that small core of things
that Congress can’t regulate at all if
it operates to prevent the president
from fulfilling his article he he could
have given speeches against it he did
yes but he left he he he did something
more and it and it corruptly impeded and
sought to influence an official
proceeding well so I I don’t
know we’re starting with the layers I
think of protection and we’re now down
through whether the statute would be
construed to apply to him then there’ be
a question of whether it does I will
assume it uh then then there’s a
question of whether he has the State of
Mind
necessarily does corrupt nobody knows
what corrupt intent means we’ve been
around that tree we will probably find
out and and maybe it means that he knows
that he was doing wrong is what the the
government told us he knows he’s doing
wrong he knows he shouldn’t be up there
uh blocking a congressman from well well
let me get to the next layer then which
is that the president does have access
to the attorney general to provide legal
advice and regularly gets legal advice
from the the Attorney General on the
lawful scope of the president’s
activities we could go down two tracks
here one is that the Attorney General
advises him that as an incident of his
Article 2 Authority and in carrying out
uh the functions of the presidency he
can lawfully participate in that protest
it’s kind of the First Amendment analog
to uh the president’s official Powers
which the court is exploring in other
cases alternatively the Attorney General
could advise him I’m sorry Mr President
there’s nothing in the language of this
statute that carves you out I don’t see
a serious constitutional question in it
because you don’t have to do that and I
would advise you not to VI be prosecuted
no no if if he gets a negative opinion
from the attorney general he still
couldn’t be prosecuted I’m going to
assume that most presidents are not
going to take an well but if he gets one
and does it anyway then he be prosecuted
well so then if we are down at that
level I think what we are really asking
is whether the president is subject to
the criminal law and and our answer is
yes he is subject to the criminal law
can we go back to um the bribery statute
I like you understand that the only that
is covered by that is the president is
barred from soliciting or receiving
funds in any room or building in the
United States that that is correct it’s
an extreme official building it’s a very
limited mention of and it really I
think so as I understand this there’s
two very limited Provisions mentioning
the president is included that’s right
there’s a whole number of Provisions
that exclude the president many many
many more that exclude the president
correct it’s a kind of small number on
both sides of the now Justice Barrett
made the point that if we say a
president can’t be included in a
criminal law unless explicitly named
then that would par the
Senate from impeaching him for high
crimes or misdemeanor because that means
that he’s not subject to the law at all
correct so I I think that’s a tautology
you can’t escape just so my what I think
that Justice Barrett was saying and we
would agree with it is that under my
friend’s position after impeachment he
could be prosecuted but under his
statutory construction approach there’d
be nothing to prosecute him for exactly
that’s the point which is if he’s not
covered by the criminal law he can’t be
impeached for it for violating it all
right now could we go further on this
clear statement R
um the situations and you mentioned it
earlier in which we have looked to see
if the president is covered is
contextual correct correct and what are
the factors that generally we look at I
I’m thinking specifically about whether
the APA covers the president correct and
what we did there was analy what powers
were being given to in the lawsuit and
Etc we looked at words we looked at
structured we looked that separation of
powers issues relating to our case law
that said you can’t direct the president
to do anything and this would have been
a subterfuge for that correct all
correct all right so I don’t know why
two of my colleagues uh how they would
fashion a clear statement rule that
would say when the law says any person
can’t accept the bribe that that permits
the president to do it so I I agree
justce Soto myor that that that the way
that this court has interpreted statutes
that do carve out the president Justice
Kavanagh asked about this was very
context specific uh the Franklin case
basically involved a holding that we are
highly unlikely to say that the
president is an agency something that
the government said would be a peculiar
understanding of agency when the effect
of it would be that we would review the
president’s decisions under statutes for
abuse of discretion which is a very
extraordinary thing to do I think even
going back to Marberry this perhaps a
point on which I agree with my friend
Marberry says discretionary acts of the
president are not the kind of thing that
the court reviews all right could I go
back to your brief and and um going back
to what some of my colleagues have asked
you there appears to be some narrowing
principles to the concept that the
president is subject to all criminal
laws in all situations correct you agree
that if it affects core
Powers um then he would not be subject
to any laws that attempted to limit
those core Powers correct you’re
defining core Powers as those specified
by Article 2 that is essentially correct
yes all right and the only words in the
constitution is is that um uh that have
to do with the president in law is that
he shall take care that the law be
Faithfully executed correct that is
right hard to imagine that a president
who breaks the law is Faithfully
executing the law correct he has to
execute all of the
laws Mr dben do you really I mean the
presidents have to make a lot of tough
decisions about enforcing the law and
they have to make decisions about
questions that are unsettled and they
have to make decisions based on the
information that’s available do you
really did did I understand you to say
well you know if he makes a mistake he
makes a mistake he’s subject to the
criminal laws just like anybody else you
don’t think he’s in a special a a
peculiarly precarious position he’s in a
special position for a number of reasons
one is that he has access to legal
advice about everything that he does
he’s under a constitutional obligation
just he’s supposed to be faithful to the
laws of the United States and the
Constitution of the United States and
making a mistake is not what lands you
in a criminal prosecution there’s been
some talk about the statutes that are
issue in this case I think they are
fairly described as malaman say statutes
uh engaging in conspiracies to defraud
the United States with respect to one of
the most important functions namely the
certification of the next president well
I I don’t want to dispute the particular
application of of that of 371 conspiracy
to defraud the United States to the
particular facts here but would you not
agree that that is a peculiarly
open-ended statutory Prohibition in that
that fraud under that provision unlike
under most other fraud Provisions does
not have to do what doesn’t require uh
any uh uh impairment of a property
interest is designed to protect
functions of the United States
government and it’s difficult to think
of a more critical function than the
certification of who won the election
yeah I I’m not as I said I’m not
discussing the particular facts of this
case but it applies to any uh fraud that
interferes seriously with any government
operation right so what the government
needs to show is an intent to impede
interfere or defeat a lawful government
of function by deception and it has to
be done with C enter these are not the
kinds of activities that I think any of
us would think a president needs to
engage in in order to fulfill his
Article 2 duties and particularly in a
case like this one I I want to pick up
on something that the court said earlier
about the distinction between a public
official acting to achieve public ends
and a public official acting to achieve
private ends as applied to this case the
president has no functions with respect
to the certif ification of the winner of
the presidential election it seems
likely that the framers designed the
Constitution that way because at the
time of the founding presidents had no
two-term limit they could run again and
again and uh uh were expected
potentially to want to do that so the
potential for self-interest would
explain why the states conduct the
elections they send uh electors to uh
certify who w those elections and to
provide votes and then Congress in a
joint extraordinary joint session
certifies the vote and the president
doesn’t have an official role in that
proceeding so it’s difficult for me to
understand how there could be a serious
constitutional question about saying you
can’t use fraud to defeat that function
you can’t obstruct it through deception
you can’t deprive millions of Voters of
their right to have their vote counted
for the candidate who they chose thank
you Council uh justice Thomas Justice
Alo could we just briefly review the
layers of protection that you think
exists and I’m going to start with what
the DC circuit said so the first layer
of protection is that Attorneys General
and other justice department attorneys
can be trusted to act in a professional
and ethical manner right yes uh how uh
robust is that protection I mean most of
the the vast majority of Attorneys
General and Justice Department of
attorneys and we both served in the
justice department for a long time are
honorable people and they take their
professional ethical responsibilities
seriously but they have been exceptions
right both among Attorneys General and
among Federal
prosecutors there have been rare
exceptions Justice Alo but when we’re
talking about layers of protection I do
think this is the the starting point and
the court has concerns about the
robustness of it I I would suggest
looking at the charges in this case they
well I’m going to talk about this in in
the abstract because what is before us
of course does involve this particular
case which is immensely important but
whatever we decide is going to apply to
all future presidents so as for
Attorneys General there have been two
who were convicted of criminal offenses
while in office there were others uh a
Mitchell Palmer’s one that comes mind
who is widely regarded as having abused
the power of his office would you agree
with that I would but they are to
officials in a long line of attorneys
generals who did not and in Departments
of Justice that are staffed by multiple
people who do adhere to their office and
Jus Leo if I could just the point that I
wanted to make about this case does go
to the general proposition the
allegations about the misuse of the
Department of Justice to perpetuate uh
El ction fraud show exactly how the
Department of Justice functions in the
way that it is supposed to petitioner is
alleged to have tried to get the
Department of Justice to send fraudulent
letters to the states to get them to
reverse electoral results yeah I
understand I I understand that Mr drean
but as I said this case will have
effects that go far beyond this
particular prosecution so moving on to
the second level of prote that the DC
circuit cited Federal grand juries will
shield former presidents from
unwarranted
indictments how much protection is that
well it it affords two levels of
protection one is the the probable cause
finding requires evidence I think some
of the fears about groundless
prosecutions aren’t supported by
evidence and they’re not going to get
out of the starting game I mean there
there’s the old saw about inditing a ham
sandwich um yes but I think just you had
a lot of experience in the Justice
Department you come across a lot of
cases where uh the the the US attorney
or another Federal prosecutor really
wanted to indict a case and the grand
jury refused to do so there are such
cases there yeah yes uh but I think that
the other once in a while there’s an
eclipse too uh well I think that that’s
for the most reason is prosecutors have
no incentive to bring a case to a grand
jury and secure an indictment when they
don’t have evidence to prove guilt
Beyond a reasonable doubt it’s
self-defeating all right then the third
level is that former presidents enjoy
all the protections afforded all
criminal defendants right and we’ve
discussed that and that may be true at
the end of the day but a lot can happen
between the time when an indictment is
returned and the time when the former
president finally gets a Vindication
perhaps on appeal isn’t that correct it
is correct Justice Leo but I think that
we should also consider the history of
this country as members of the Court
have observed it’s baked into the
Constitution that any president knows
that they are exposed to potential
criminal prosecution my friend says
after impeachment and conviction we
don’t read the impeachment judgment
Clause that way but we are it’s common
ground that all former presidents have
known that they could be indicted and
convicted and Watergate cemented that
understanding uh the Watergate Smoking
Gun tape involved President Nixon and HR
halderman talking about and then
deciding to use the CIA to give a bogus
story to the FBI to shut down a criminal
investigation I mean Mr sour and others
have identified events in the past where
presidents have engaged in conduct that
might have been charged as a federal
crime and you you say well no that’s not
really true this is Page 42 of your
brief so what about President Franklin D
Roosevelt’s decision to inter Japanese
Americans during World War II couldn’t
that have been charged under uh 18 USC
241 conspiracy against civil rights
today yes given this Court’s decision in
Trump versus United States in which uh
the you know Trump versus Hawaii excuse
me where the court said koram matu was
overruled I mean President Roosevelt
made that decision with the advice of
his attorney general that’s a layer of
is that really true I thought I thought
attorney general ble thought that uh
there was really no threat of sabotage
as did Jer Hoover so I think that there
is a lot of historical controversy but
it underscores that that occurred during
wartime it implicates uh potential
commanderin-chief
concerns concerns about the exigencies
of National Defense that might provide
and as applied Article 2 challenge at
the time I’m not suggesting today but
the idea that uh a decision that was
made and ultimately endorsed by this
court perhaps wrongly in the koram Matsu
case would support criminal prosecution
under 241 which requires under United
States versus linear that the right have
been made specific so that there is
notice to the president I don’t think
that would have been satisfying all
right well we could go through other
historical examples I won’t do that let
me just touch briefly on a couple couple
of other things one is the relevance of
advice of council and I wasn’t clear
what your answer is so if the president
gets advice from the attorney general
that something is lawful is that an
absolute defense yes uh I think that it
is um under the principle of entrapment
by a stopple this is a due process
doctrine that we referred to in our
brief uh our reply brief in Garland
versus Carill this term at page 19
where we cited authority of this court
that if a authorized government
representative tells you that what you
are about to do is lawful it would be a
a root violation of due process to
prosecute you for that will that won’t
that give presidents an incentive to be
sure to pick an attorney general who can
Will who will reliably tell the
president that it is lawful to do
whatever the president wants to do if
there’s any possibly conceivable argu in
favor of it so I think the
Constitutional structure protects
against that risk the president
nominates the attorney general and the
Senate provides advice and consent and
these are the sort of structural checks
that have operated for 200 years to
prevent the kind of abuses that my
friend fears going forward as a result
of this once in history
prosecution uh on the question of
whether a president has the authority to
pardon himself which came up earlier in
the argument what’s the answer to that
question I don’t believe the Department
of Justice has taken a position the the
only Authority that I’m aware of is a
member of the office of legal council
wrote on a memorandum that there is no
self-part Authority as far as I know the
department has not addressed it further
and of course this court had not uh
addressed it either well when you
address that question before us are you
speaking in Your Capacity solely as a
member of the special council’s team or
or are you speaking uh on behalf of the
justice department which has special
institutional responsibilities I am
speaking on behalf of the justice
department we’re representing the United
States now how don’t you think we need
to know the answer to at least to the
Justice Department’s position on that
issue in order to decide this case
because if a president has the authority
to Pardon himself before leaving office
and the DC circuit is right that there
is no immunity from prosecution won’t
the the predictable result be that
presidents on the last couple of days of
office are going to Pardon themselves
from anything that they might have been
conceivably charged with committing I I
really doubt that Justice Alo I mean it
sort of presupposes a regime that we
have never had except for President
Nixon and as alleged in the indictment
here presidents who are conscious of
having engaged in wrongdoing and seeking
to Shield themselves I think the
political consequences of a President
Who asserted a right of self- Pardon
that has never been recognized that
seems to contradict a Bedrock principle
of our law that no person shall be the
judge in their own case uh those are
adequate deterrence I think so that this
kind of dystopian regime is not going to
evolve all right let me end end with
just a question about what is required
for the functioning of a stable Democrat
ATC society which is something that we
all want um I’m sure you would agree
with me that a stable Democratic Society
requires that a candidate who loses an
election even a close one even a hotly
contested one leave office peacefully if
that candidate is is the incumbent we of
course all right
now if a an incumbent who loses is a
very close hotly contested election
knows that a real
possibility uh after leaving office is
not that the president is going to be
able to go off into a peaceful
retirement but that the president may be
criminally prosecuted by a bitter
political opponent will that not lead us
into a cycle that destabilizes the
functioning of our country as a
democracy and we can look around the
world and find countries where we have
seen this process where the loser gets
thrown in jail so I think it’s exactly
the opposite Justice Alo there are
lawful mechanisms to contest the results
in an election and outside the record
but I think of public knowledge uh
petitioner and his allies filed dozens
of electoral challenges and my
understanding is lost all but one that
was not outcome determinative in any
respect there were judges that that said
in order to sustain substantial claims
of fraud that would overturn an election
result that’s certified by a state you
need evidence you need proof and none of
those things were manifested so there is
an appropriate way to challenge things
through the courts with evidence if you
lose you accept the results that has
been the nation’s experience I think the
court is well familiar with that thank
you Justice s
mayor a stable Democratic Society needs
the good faith of its public officials
correct absolutely and that good faith
assumes that they will follow the law
correct now putting that aside there is
no failsafe system of
government meaning we have a judicial
system that has layers and layers and
layers of protection for accused
defendants in the hopes that the inent
will go free we fail
routinely but we succeed more often than
not in the vast majority of cases the
innocent do go free sometimes they don’t
and we have some
post um conviction remedies for that but
we still fail we’ve executed innocent
people
having said that Justice um Alo went
through step by step all of the
mechanisms that could potentially fail
in the end if it fails
completely it’s because we’ve destroyed
our democracy on our own isn’t it it is
justice so to myor and I also think that
that there are additional checks in the
system of course the Constitutional
Frameworks designed a separated power
system in order order to limit abuses I
think one of the ways in which abuses
are limited is accountability under the
criminal law for criminal violations but
the ultimate check is the Good Will and
faith in democracy and crimes that are
alleged in this case that are the
antithesis of democracy that subed
undermine that an encouragement to
believe words that been somewhat put
into suspicion here that no man is above
the the law either in His official or
private acts I think that is an
assumption of the
Constitution Justice Kagan Mr drean I
want to go through um your framework and
make sure I understand it so first on
the small category of things that you
say have absolute protection that they
are core executive functions yes um what
are those small
categories uh pardon power pardon veto
veto foreign
recognition uh appointments Congress
cannot say you can’t appoint a federal
judge who hasn’t received uh you know a
certain diploma it hasn’t achieved a
certain age um there are a few other
powers commander and chief commander and
chief is is on the list but I want to
add to uh my answer on that that
Congress has substantial Authority in
the National Security realm Congress
declares war it raises armies it has
power over the purse that’s so that may
be viewed as not really in that core set
of functions which nobody has any power
but the president over yes I think that
there may be some aspects like directing
troops on the field in which the
president’s power is completely
unreviewable okay now in in in um in the
next category where you where we’ve left
the core set behind yes but we’re still
in the world of official actions and
that’s where you say there are uh
various statutory conc instruction rules
that might come into play correct but
you have characterized those as
something different from just saying oh
look the statute doesn’t say the
president therefore it doesn’t apply to
the president that’s right so I wanted
to give you an opportunity to say you
know how that would look how that
analysis would look in a given case and
and in the course of responding to that
you know I’m sort of thinking of
something like the olc opinion which
says bribery the president can be um
tried and convicted of bribery even in
the part of the bribery statutes that do
not say the president um why is that
true that is true because there is no
serious constitutional question that the
president needs to engage in bribery in
order to carry out his constitutional
functions and the office of legal
council pointed out that bribery is
enumerated in the impeachment Clause so
it falls outside of anything that could
be viewed as inherent in the need of
article to function do you think the
premise of that olc opinion was that the
bribery was simply not official no or is
the premise that the bribery was
official and um and still the president
could be prosecuted for it I think that
that bribery is is the kind of hybrid
that illustrates the abuse of public
office for private gain that we think is
paradigmatic of the kinds of things that
should be uh not held to be immune in a
bribery case the public official cannot
ex ract the bribe without the official
power to offer as uh the quid or the pro
uh I guess the quo actually um uh so it
really is a crime that can only be
committed by public officials who misuse
their power and it was one of the things
that was most mistrusted many of the
acts that are charged in this indictment
or that would violate Federal Criminal
Law similarly involve the misuse of
official power for private gain so if
you were to say like what the line is in
this category like when it is that the
statute should be understood as
precluding presidential prosecution and
when it is that the statute should be
understood as allowing it what general
principles should guide so the the the
general principles I think kind of
emerge from looking at what the office
of legal counsel has done so for example
with a respect to a federal statute that
prohibited appointments to courts of
people within certain degrees of on
sity uh the office of legal council said
this infringes on a very important
appointment power of the president the
power to appoint federal judges it
cannot be presumed that Congress
intended to do that because it would
raise a very serious constitutional
question the president is out then there
are categories of statutes where the
president is in like for example the
Grassroots lobbying statute that the
office of legal council wrote an opinion
about that and it said for the president
or other public officials to go out into
the world and to promote their programs
that can’t be what Congress intended to
prohibit what it did intend to prohibit
is using federal funds to J up Jin up an
artificial Grassroots campaign that gave
the appearance of emerging from the
people but it was really topped down and
the office of legal council said the
president and officials who carry out
the president’s uh mandates are subject
to that statute so that’s a more nuanced
one and then the third example that I
will give you is
uh the statute that would Pro uh permit
prosecution for contempt of congress the
office of legal council concluded that a
good faith assertion of executive
privilege as a reason for not providing
information to Congress would preclude
prosecution because Congress cannot be
deemed to have altered the separation of
powers in such a manner I think uh olc
probably would have gone on to say if
Congress tried to do it it would be
deemed unconstitutional but again this
was a statute that did not specifically
name the president there are only two
that do that so the entire Corpus of
federal criminal law including bribery
offenses sedition murder would all be
off limits if it were taken to the uh to
the to the extent that some of the
questions have suggested and for the
general principle does it raise a
serious constitutional question and if
so to what extent can it be carved out
individually and there may be some
instances where where the statutes here
could be carved out and uh a particular
act could be found to be protected or
does the statute across the board in
such a wide range of applications
somewhat analogous to over breath
analysis uh infringe on the president’s
power so that we’re going to say that
that the president is just out now that
set of issues they seem important and uh
May occasionally be difficult um they
they also seem not really before us in
the way just Jackson suggested earlier
what do you S I mean do you think they
are before us we should just clear it up
here it is we have a case um what what
else could we do how should we deal with
this uh that there are these lingering
issues that go beyond the question of
whether there’s the kind of absolute
immunity that um the former president is
invoking so I think the court has
discretion to reach that issue even
though Justice Jackson is totally right
it was not raised in the district court
and it was not raised Ed in the court of
appeals and the the analysis that I
would use to get there is a fusion of a
couple of principles one is the court
has often resolved threshold questions
that are a prerequisite to an
intelligent resolution of the question
presented so in a case like United
States versus grubs for example the
court reached out to decide whe whether
anticipatory warrants are valid under
the Fourth Amendment before turning to
the question whether the triggering
condition for an anticipatory warrant
had to be in the the warrant so that’s
one principle and then a a precedent
that bears some analogy to this is uh
Vermont natural resources agency versus
United States xrl Stevens it was a keam
case and the first question was whether
a state agency was a person within the
meaning of the false claims Act and the
second question was whether if the state
agency was 11th Amendment immunity
kicked in and the court wrote an
analysis of why it could reach both
questions the reaching the person
question didn’t expand the Court’s
Jurisdiction and it made sense as a
matter of constitutional avoidance to do
that there are some considerations that
cut against this and I I want to be
clear that for overall government
equities we are not wild about uh
parties who raise a uh an immunity case
that can be uh presented to a court on
an interlocutory appeal and then
smuggling in other issues so would want
to guide the court not to have an
expansive approach to that issue but the
final thing that I would say about this
is part of our submission to this court
is that the article one branch and the
article two branches are aligned in
believing that this prosecution is an
appropriate way to enforce the law
Congress by making the law the current
executive by deciding to bring it and
since a building block of that uh
submission is that Congress actually did
apply these criminal laws to official
conduct Court may wish to exercise its
discretion to resolve that issue okay I
have one last set of questions which um
has to do with the official un
unofficial line and you heard um Mr
Sour’s responses to both Justice
Barrett’s questions and my questions
about what he thinks counts as official
hears and what he thinks counts as
unofficial here and I’m just wondering
what you took from um his responses and
also how you would characterize what is
official and what is not official in
this
indictment so um I I think petitioner
conceded that there are uh acts that are
not official that are alleged in the
indictment and we agree with him on all
of that I think I disagree with him on
everything else that he said about what
is official and what is not organizing
fraudulent slates of electors creating
false documentation that says uh I’m an
elector I was appointed properly I’m
going to send a a vote off to Congress
that reflects that petitioner won rather
than the candidate that actually got the
most votes and who was ascertained by
the governor and whose electors were
appointed to cast votes that is not uh
official conduct that is campaign
conduct and I think that the DC circuit
in the blasing game case did draw an
appropriate distinction a first-term
president who’s running for reelection
can act in the capacity as office Seeker
or office holder and when working with
private lawyers and a private public
relations uh advise her to Jin up
fraudulent slates of electors that is
not any part of a president’s job so
there’s I’m sorry there’s an allegation
um in the indictment that has to do with
the removal of a justice department
official would would is that core
protected conduct we don’t think that
that’s core protected conduct I don’t
think that that I would characterize
that episode quite that way we do agree
that the Department of Justice
allegations were a use of the
president’s official power in many ways
we think that aggravates the nature of
this offense seeking as a uh candidate
to OU the lawful winner of the election
and have one self-certified with private
actors is a private scheme to achieve a
private end and many of the
co-conspirators alleged in the
indictment are private but for an
incumbent president to then use his
presidential powers to try to enhance
the likelihood that it succeeds makes
the crime in our view worse so in the
Department of Justice episode uh it curs
very late in the election cycle after
many other schemes had failed um and at
that point the the petitioner is alleged
to have tried to pressure the Department
of Justice to send false letters to the
states claiming that there were serious
election irregularities and that they
should investigate who they certified as
a president none of this was true the
Department of Justice officials all said
this is not true we are not going to do
that and at that point petitioner is
alleged to have threatened to remove the
Department of Justice officials who were
standing by their oath and replace them
with another person who would carry it
out we’re not seeking to impose criminal
liability on the president for
exercising or talking about exercising
the appointment and removal power no
what we’re seeking to impose criminal
liability for is a conspiracy to use
fraud to subvert the election one means
of which was to try to get the justice
department to be complicit in this the
case would have been no different if
petitioner were successful and he had
actually exercised the appointment and
removal power and it had gone through
and those fraudulent letters were sent
it would have made the scheme more
dangerous but it would not have changed
the crime and how do we think about
things like convers ations with the Vice
President in other words things that if
you say it that way it’s clear that they
would fall under executive privilege but
how does that relate to the question
that we’re asking here so this is one of
the most difficult questions for the
Department of Justice and I I want to
explain why that is if we are operating
under a Fitzgerald versus Nixon lens and
looking at this the way that we look at
things when there is a private lawsuit
filed against uh the president we take a
very broad view of what the Outer
Perimeter of official presidential
action is in order to be as protective
of the president against private
lawsuits that as this court explained in
Nixon versus Fitzgerald can be very
dilus to the president’s conduct of
business so if we were putting this
under a Fitzgerald lens we would then
have to answer to the question was he
acting in in the capacity as office
Seeker or was he acting in the capacity
as as office holder and if you run
through the indictment you can find
support for those two
characterizations and the Department of
Justice has not yet had to come to grips
with how we would analyze that set of
interactions thank you justice Gorsuch
if you did though I just wanted to
confirm I thought I heard you thought
that the Blazing game framework was the
appropriate one is largely yes Justice
guch we we agree with the idea of um the
distinction between office holder and
office Seeker we also agree that if it’s
objectively reasonable to view the
activities as those of office holder
than the Fitzgerald immunity kicks in I
think we would look more at the content
of the actual interaction in order to
make that determination than blasting
game suggested at least on the facts of
that case might be appropriate can you
give me an example of what you have in
mind I’m just trying to understand what
Nuance you’re suggest so so so blasting
game adopted a you know a generally very
favorable pro-government framework that
we
endorse okay not here because we don’t
think that Fitzgerald applies in the
criminal C I understand that but but but
but but putting that aside the
distinction between official act and
private office seeker yes their test is
you think good enough for government
work I
I on this one the department hasn’t
taken a Next Step since the blasting
game decision but let me offer a few
thoughts just SC I think might clarify
it the blasting game decision focused on
objective contextual indications to try
to see whether the president was acting
as a campaigner as opposed to a you know
an office holder I I think that that
that decision can also be made by
looking at what the president actually
said and let me illustrate that with an
allegation that I think myly talk
briefly uh that in one of the
interactions between petitioner and a
state official uh petitioner is alleged
to have said all I need you to do is to
find me 11,000 votes and change uh I
think if you look at that that content
it’s pretty clear that petitioner is
acting in the capacity as office Seeker
not as president and we would look at
that content okay okay but the test I’m
just focused on the legal test correct
I’m not hearing any objections to it
other than I think that the DC circuit
placed more uh content consideration off
limits than I would okay all right and
then I wanted to understand on the core
immunity or whatever word we use that
that it seems to me that we’re narrowing
the ground of dispute here considerably
do do we look at motives the president’s
motives for his actions I mean for
example he has lots of War Powers as
we’ve discussed but he might use them in
order to enhance his election his
personal interests is that a relevant
consideration when we’re looking at core
Powers so I I I am thinking of this more
as looking at the objective of the
activity as opposed to the kind of
subjective motive in the sense that your
honor is talking about I think that
there is a lot of concern about saying
an electoral motive to be reelected as
such every first term president
everything he does can be seen through
the um Prism by critics at least of his
personal interest in reelection yes and
so you wouldn’t want that I I think you
would say personal Mo motivations off
limits with respect to the core Powers
probably well with respect to the core
Powers we think those are just things
that can’t be Reg ulated at all like the
pardon power and veto right regardless
of motive correct regardless of Mo right
all right so then we’re in the non-core
powers right where we’re fighting over
what role do motives play there I mean
uh one could remove an an appointee that
well first of all is maybe ask this
first is removing an appointee a
presidential appointee a core power or a
non-core power in your world so here I
might need to different iate between the
principal officers that this court in
cases like Myers and UHA law has
regarded as uh having a constitutional
status of being removable at will from
inferior officers where Congress does
have some regulatory latitude to impose
restrictions on removal sure and and put
that aside yeah I I understand that put
putting that aside yes appointing a
principal officer is a Core Power I am
not uh prepared to say that there is no
potential criminal regulation to say you
can’t do it for corrupt purposes to
enrich yourself for example well bribery
all right but but but that’s what I was
wondering do motives come into the Core
Power analysis or not and now I’m
hearing I I thought I heard no and now
I’m hearing maybe I think maybe might be
a little bit more appropriate because
it’s not involved in this case the
department has not had to take a
position on exactly how uh these core
Powers would be resolved under an as
applied constitutional analysis none is
involved in this case and I guess I’m
wondering and I’m not concerned about
this case so much as future ones too but
uh these non-core powers and maybe core
powers where a president is acting with
at least in part a personal interest in
getting
reelected um everything he does yeah he
wants to get reelected and if you’re if
you’re allowing in motive to color
that um I I’m I’m wondering how much is
left uh of either the core or non-core
Powers so I I I would be fine with
carving that out and deeming that to be
something that’s intrinsic in our
electoral system we’re not talking about
applying criminal law to somebody who
makes an announcement that this program
will be good for the United States and
somebody could come along and say well
you really did it to get reelected
leaving aside whether any of that
violates a crial law I know that the
next question is assume that it does um
I’m doubtful that it in fact does CU I
don’t think criminal laws generally
operate on motives as opposed to
objectives and purposes but well all
right intentions I mean you ref frame a
motive is an intention and intention is
a motive as you well know every day of
the week so let’s put that aside I
understand well put it putting that
aside um that really to me Falls in a
very different category and it is also
POS there some motives or intense that
that are cognizable and others that
aren’t I mean it’s it’s awkward right
when we look at back at like the
injunction uh back to Marberry in the
early cases you can’t enjoin a president
yeah also me you hold him in contempt
right sitting a sitting president for
sure for sure just can I try one more
time well let me just spin this out just
a second right and and it didn’t matter
what the president’s motives were we’re
not going to look behind it right and
and same thing in we said gosh Nixon
versus Fitzgerald that’s something
courts shouldn’t get engaged in because
presidents have all manner of motives
and again I’m not concerned about this
case but I am concerned about future
uses of the criminal law to Target
political opponents based on accusations
about their motives whether it’s
re-election or who knows what corrupt
means in
1512 right we we don’t know what that
means um maybe we’ll find out sometime
soon but um the the dangerousness of
accusing your political opponent of
having bad motives and and if that’s
enough to overcome your core powers or
any other
limits reactions thoughts yeah so I I I
think that you’re raising a very
difficult question that’s the idea right
I mean that is the idea testing testing
the limits of both sides arguments and
I’m going to say something that I don’t
normally say which is that’s really not
involved in this case we
don’t we don’t have bad political motive
in that sense I understand that I
appreciate that but you also appreciate
that we’re writing a rule for yes for
the ages yes and I think I would start
by looking at the statutes and and then
seeing what restrictions they do place
on the president’s conduct and for
example the statute that prohibits uh
fraud to defeat the lawful functions of
the United States the statute defines
what the purpose is that the defender
has to have in mind it has to be to
defeat something that the United States
is doing and it has to be by deception I
don’t think that that gets us into the
realm of motive hunting in the area
where we are as concerned I think as the
court would be about doing something
that would undermine uh the presidency
and the executive branch and 1512 C2 we
may have different views on the clarity
and the scope of that statute I think if
the court does interpret corruptly is
involving a consciousness of wrongdoing
and elevates that to consciousness of
illegality then we’re in a different
realm wanting to get reelected is not an
illegal motive and you don’t have to
worry about Prosecuting presidents for
that yeah okay thank you Mr D Justice
Kavanaugh as you’ve indicated this case
has huge implications for the presidency
for the future of the presidency for the
future of the country in my view um
you’ve referred to the department a few
times as having support the position who
in the department is it the president
the Attorney
General uh the solicitor general of the
United States uh part of the way in
which the special counsel functions is
as a uh component of the Department of
Justice the regulations Envision that we
reach out and consult and on a question
of this magnitude that involves equities
that are far beyond this prosecution as
the questions of the court so it’s
solicor General yes okay um
second uh like justice Gorsuch uh I’m
not focused on the Here and Now of this
case I’m very concerned about the future
uh and I think one of the Court’s
biggest mistakes was Morrison versus
Olen uh I think that was a terrible
decision for the presidency and for the
country and not because there were bad
people uh who were independent councils
but President Reagan’s Administration
President Bush’s Administration
president Clinton’s administration were
really uh hampered yes uh in their view
all three by the uh independent Council
structure and and what I I’m worried
about here is that that was kind of
let’s relax Article 2 a bit for the
needs of the moment and I’m worried
about the similar kind of uh situation
applying here that was a prosecutor
investigating a president in each of
those circumstances and someone picked
from the opposite party the the current
president uh and uh usually uh was how
it worked and and Justice Scalia wrote
that the the fairness of a process must
be adjudged on the basis of what it
permits to happen Not What It produced
in a particular case you’ve emphasized
uh many times regularity the Department
of Justice and he said uh and I think
this applied to the independent Council
system and it could apply if presidents
are routinely subject to investigation
going forward one thing is certain
however it involves investigating and
perhaps Prosecuting a particular
individual can one imagine a less
Equitable manner of fulfilling the
executive responsibility to investigate
and prosecute what would the reaction be
if in an area not covered by the statute
the justice department posted a public
notice inviting applicants to an assist
in an investigation and possible
prosecution of a certain prominent
person does this not invite what Justice
Jackson described as picking the man and
then searching the law books or putting
investig to work to pin some offense on
him to be sure the investigation must
relate to the area of criminal offense
specified uh by the statute uh but that
has often been and nothing prevents it
from being uh very broad I paraphrased
at the end because it was referring to
the judges yes um that’s the concern
going forward is that the the system
will when when former presidents are
subject to prosecution in the history of
Morrison versus old olon tells us it’s
not going to stop it’s going to it’s
going to cycle back and be used against
the current president or the next
president or and the next president and
the next president after that all that I
want you to try to allay that concern
why is this not Morrison V Olsen Redux
if we agree with you well um first of
all the the independent Council regime
did have many structural features that
emphasized an independence at the
expense of accountability we don’t have
that regime now but even under that
regime Justice Kavanaugh I think if you
look at Lawrence Walsh’s report on Iran
Contra I think this goes to a very
fundamental point for the court to
consider uh uh judge Walsh said I
investigated these matters the proof did
not nearly come close to establishing
criminal violations so we’ve lived from
Watergate through the present through
the independent Council ERA with all of
flaws without these prosecutions having
gone off on a runaway train well I think
President Reagan President Bush and
president Clint whether rightly or
wrongly thought oppos thought contrary
to what you just said I think nobody
likes being investigated for a crime but
it didn’t result in the kind of
vindictive prosecutions that I I think
your honor is is Raising as a
possibility yeah we we have a different
system now I think there was a consensus
throughout Washington that there were
flaws in the independent Council system
it lapsed we now are inside the justice
department with full accountability
resting with the attorney general so the
special Council regulations now don’t
operate the way that the independent
Council regulations do and I this court
would have something to say about it I
think if uh the independent Council
statute were revived I’m not sure that
anybody is in favor of that right now I
was just saying this is kind of the
mirror image of that is one way someone
could perceive it but I take your point
about the different structural
protections internally and like justice
Scalia said let me I do not mean to
suggest anything of the sort in the
present case I’m not talking about the
present case uh so I’m talking about the
future uh SEC another point you said um
uh uh talked about the criminal statutes
it’s very easy to characterize
presidential actions as false or
misleading under vague statutes so um uh
president Lyon Johnson statements about
the Vietnam War
say something’s false uh turns out to be
false that he says about the Vietnam War
371 prosecution so after he leades
office I think not but I we need this is
an area that I do think that merits some
serious and nuanced consideration
statements that are made by a president
uh to the public are not really coming
within the realm of criminal statutes
they’d never been prosecuted I realize
that the court can say well what if they
were
and and then I think you get to what I
would regard as a hard constitutional
question that would probably guide the
court away from trying to resolve today
although I do think it’s very different
from our case and distinguishable in
important ways but you’re dealing here
with two branches of government that
have a Paramount interest in the
integrity and freedom of their
interactions with each other on the one
hand the president of course should be
very free to send usually his uh
cabinet officials and sub cabinet
officials to testify to Congress to
provide them with the information needed
to enact legislation and to make
National policy and we’re very concerned
about anything that would tramel that on
the other side of the equation Congress
has a compelling interest in receiving
accurate information and at the very
least not information that is
intentionally and knowingly false that
would pollute the legis how about I
think came up before President Ford’s
pardon uh very controversial in the
moment yes hugely unpopular probably why
he lost in 76 yes uh now looked upon as
one of the better decisions in
presidential history I think by most
people um if he’s thinking about well if
I grant this pardon to Richard Nixon
could I be investigated myself for
obstruction of justice on the theory
that I’m interfering with the
investigation of Richard Nixon so this
would fall into that small core area
that I mentioned to Justice Kagan and
Justice Gorsuch of uh presidential
responsibilities that Congress cannot
regulate how about President Obama’s
drone strikes so the the office of legal
council looked at this very carefully
and determined that number one the
federal murder statute does apply to the
Executive Branch the president wasn’t
personally carrying out the strike but
the aiding and abetting laws are Broad
and it determined that a public Public
Authority uh exception that’s built into
statutes and that applied particularly
to the murder statute because it talks
about unlawful killing did not apply to
the Drone strike so this is actually the
way that the system should function the
Department of Justice takes criminal law
very seriously it runs it through the
analysis very carefully with established
principles it documents them it explains
them and then the president can go
forward in accordance with it and there
is no risk of prosecution for that
course of Activity thank you for your
answers Justice Barrett Mr D I want to
pick up with that Public Authority
defense so I’m looking at the olc memo
that David Baron wrote that you cited in
your briefs and he describes the Public
Authority defense citing the model Penal
Code there are a few different
definitions but I’ll just highlight this
one um justifying conduct which is
required or authorized by the law
defining the duties or functions of a
public office
the law governing the armed services or
lawful conduct of war or any other
provision of law imposing a public duty
that sounds a lot like dividing a line
between official and private conduct it
it’s I think it’s narrower and I
recognize it’s a defense not an immunity
but when we look at when you look at the
definition of it are you acting within
the scope of authority conferred by law
or discharging a duty conferred by law I
think it’s narrower than blasing game
narrower than Nixon versus Fitzgerald
but that’s what it sounds like to me do
you agree or disagree you know just SP I
certainly understand the intuition that
when you act outside of your lawful
Authority you’ve kind of gone in the
Frolic and Detour you’re no longer
carrying it out I don’t really think
that that quite works for presidential
activity the only way that he could have
implemented the orders is by exercising
his commander-in-chief authority over
the Armed Forces or his authority to
supervise the executive branch those
seem like core executive acts to me
there is such a possibility as an
unlawful executive
act I’m not sure that I understand your
answer I mean I was thinking it seemed
to me that in your briefs and today when
you referred to the public Authority
defense you said that’s one of the
built-in protections and why immunity is
not necessary because in some of these
instances when the president takes such
actions that you know the courts been
asking you might this result in criminal
prosecution you say well he could raise
this Public Authority defense and so I’m
saying isn’t this Public Authority
defense if raised doesn’t it sound like
a defense that says well I had I was
authorized by law to discharge this
function and therefore I acted lawfully
therefore I acted lawfully and not
criminally liable correct does that
involve a look into motives kind of this
is gets to what Justice Gorsuch was
asking you could you say I was acting
within the scope of my authority by
granting a pardon removing a cabinet
officer but then the Public Authority
defense might not apply because you had
a bad motive in doing so no I I I don’t
think so J Barett I think that it
operates based on objective facts
disclosed to council Council then
provides the advice in this case the
Department of Justice and it it’s an
objectively valid defense it’s a
complete defense to prosecution so what
would be so bad I mean one thing that
strikes me as different well one thing
that’s obviously different between the
Public Authority defense and Immunity is
an interlocutory appeal and having it
resolved at the outset what would be so
bad about having a question like that
resolved at the threshold having it be
an immunity the same kind of question
that could be brought up as a defense
later but have it be brought up at the
threshold as an immunity and then an
interlocutory appeal would be available
and it would be a freedom from standing
trial but not a a jet out not a get out
of jail free card yes I I understand
that and I think that if the court
believed that that was the appropriate
way to craft presidential protections it
has the authority to craft procedural
rules that Implement its Article 2 uh
concerns that said uh Public Authority
is we’re calling it a defense but under
many statutes It’s actually an exception
to liability itself and what you’re
really talking about is trying the
general issue and generally in criminal
cases even cases that involve First
Amendment issues like threats statutes
the jury is the determinant of the fact
act and I have a little bit of
difficulty with the idea of trying the
whole public authority issue separately
to the judge and having that go up on
interlocutory appeal with review of
facts before you could ever get it
Forward into a criminal case that said
it if I would prefer a regime in which
the court uh altered some of the
procedural rules surrounding the
president than a total absolute blanket
immunity that takes away the the
possibility of criminal prosecution even
if it was a core violation of the
statute in the teeth of attorney general
advice and has no overriding public
purose you think it has to be a jury
question and I I mean I let’s see I
wasn’t necessarily proposing actually
treating it as a defense that was done
at the outset and then subject to
interlocutory appeal I was proposing
what about an immunity doctrine that
Drew from the public Authority defense
that the Department of Justice thinks
would otherwise apply so just just go
with me on that for a minute why would
it be so bad for it not to be a jury
question I mean it seems to me that some
of these article two concerns would be
exacerbated by having it go to a jury
rather than a judge so I I think some of
them are uh judge questions that could
be resolved on the face of the
indictment if the Department of Justice
ever returned an indictment that said
the issuance of this pardon or this
series of Pardons constituted
obstruction of justice I have a little
difficulty hypothesizing it but a motion
could be made on the face of the
indictment that says Article 2 precludes
Congress from regulating these
activities the indictment needs to be
dismissed and if the court wish to
attach to that kind of a rule
interlocutory appeal then that that
would be a a lesser Safeguard than the
the one that my friend is proposing here
other kinds of defenses though really do
intersect with the general issue and for
those I have a much greater uh time
seeing how the court could Implement
that and would there be costs in going
to trial yes there is no perfect system
here we are trying to design a system
that preserves the effective functioning
of the presidency and the accountability
of a former president under the rule of
law and the perfect system that
calibrates all of those values probably
has not been devised I think that the
system that we have works pretty well
maybe it needs some few ancillary rules
it is different from the radical
proposal of my friend I I agree let let
me ask you about State
prosecutions because if the president
has some kind of immunity that’s
implicit in Article 2 then that immunity
would protect him in from State
prosecutions as well a lot of the
protections that you’re talking about
are internal protections that the
federal government has Protections in
the Department of Justice which
obviously are not applicable with the
many many many many uh state and local
jurisdictions across the country what do
you have to say to that so that raises a
supremacy clause issue and the court
would run a supremacy clause analysis
that would probably start with basic
principles like mccullock versus
Maryland the states do not have the
authority to burden Federal functions
and would then kind of move through in
Reagle where the court said that a State
murder prosecution of a federal official
guarding a Supreme Court Justice and who
fired a shot was not permissible if the
court thought that you needed a more
categorical rule for the states I think
the supremacy clause certainly leaves it
within the Court’s prerogative to
determine that the president unlike all
other officials deserves more of a
robust Federal defense than what I have
just descried it would still be a
defense in in the states it wouldn’t be
I mean that’s my point like the you know
it’s one thing to to say well the
president they’re not going to be these
prosecutions that are politically
motivated the things that Justice
Kavanagh was referring to that might be
the danger of of this system one thing
that we have to worry about that might
not carry the day but you know that’s a
concern it’s totally different when you
take it outside of the Department of
Justice and its structures and then you
throw it out elsewhere the idea across
across the states the idea of an
immunity I think has a lot more purchase
if you’re talking about something that
protects the former president from
standing trial and the state and state
and local level so I I I don’t know that
you would have to design a system in
which the president would have to stand
trial at the state and local level it’s
certainly within the Court’s Authority
as a matter of supremacy clause law to
find an immunity but we we have been
talking here about at some length on the
distinction between official acts and
private acts yeah that will have to be
determined by some sort of a process any
immunity defense that the court
announced
can still be met by a state assertion
that we’re Prosecuting private conduct
you’re going to have to have some
process I think having some legal
process is not a reason to cast aside a
Nuance system that actually looks at
what protections are necessary as
opposed to what would provide the
absolute maximum insallation for former
presidents even if we acknowledge that
it’s highly prophylactic totally agree
and I wasn’t actually contrasting the
absolute immunity rule I was saying that
if there were some sort of official
private their consequences towards about
making immunity okay and since you bring
up the private act it’s my last question
so I had asked Mr sour about on page 46
and 47 of your brief yes you say even if
the court were inclined to recognize
some immunity for a former president’s
official acts it should remand for trial
because the indictment alleges
substantial private conduct yes and you
said that the private conduct would be
sufficient yes the special counsel has
expressed some concern for Speed and
wanting to move forward so you know the
normal process what Mr sour asked would
be for us to remand if we decided that
there were some official acts immunity
and to let that be sorted out below it
is another option for the special
councel to just proceed based on the
private conduct and drop the official
conduct well well two things on that
justar first first of all there’s really
an integrated conspiracy here that had
different components as alleged in the
indictment working with with private
lawyers to achieve the goals of the
fraud and as I said before the the
petitioner Reaching For His official
powers to try to make the conspiracies
more likely to succeed we would like to
present that as an integrated picture to
the jury so that it sees the sequence
and the gravity of the conduct and why
each step occurred that said if the
court were to say that the fraudin
elector scheme is private reaching out
to State officials as a candidate is
private trying to exploit the violence
after January 6th by calling senators
and saying please delay the
certification proceeding is private
campaign activity we still think
contrary to what my friend said that we
could introduce the interactions with
the justice department the efforts to
pressure the vice president for their
evidentiary value as showing the
defendants knowledge and intent and we
would take a jury instruction that would
say you may not not impose criminal
culpability for the actions that he took
however you may consider it in so far as
it Bears on knowledge and intent that’s
the usual rule with protected speech for
example under Wisconsin versus Mitchell
my friend analogizes this to the speech
or debate clause but we don’t think the
speech or debate clause has any
applicability here it’s a very explicit
constitutional protection that says uh
senators and representatives shall not
be questioned in any other place so it
carries an evidentiary comp component
that’s above and beyond whatever
official act immunity he is seeking and
the last thing I would say on this is we
think that the concerns about the use of
evidence of presidential conduct that
might otherwise be official and subject
to executive privilege is already taken
care of by United States versus Nixon
that balances the president’s interest
and confidentiality against the need of
the judicial system for all available
facts to get to the truth and once that
has been overcome we submit that
evidence can be used even if culpability
can’t rest on it thank you justice
Jackson just to pick up where Justice
Barrett left off I I think I heard you
say that even if we decide here
something a a rule that’s not the rule
that you prefer um that is somehow
separating out private from official
acts and saying that that should apply
here there’s sufficient uh allegations
in the indictment in the government’s
view that fall into the private acts
bucket that the case should be allowed
to proceed correct because in an
ordinary case it wouldn’t be stopped
just because some of the acts are
allegedly IM immunized even if people
agree that some are immunized if there
are other acts that aren’t the case
would go forward that is right all right
um going back to the clear statement uh
argument I I I’m struggling with that
argument because my understanding was
that when a charged criminal statute is
read narrowly in the presidential
context to not apply to the president um
a constitutional question is being
avoided so that you’re doing that to
avoid having to deal with the
Constitutional question so what is the
Constitutional question that is being
avoided in those kinds of situations a
serious one this is just an application
of this Court’s ordinary construction of
criminal statutes that if there is an
available interpretation that would
avoid a serious constitutional question
the Court’s preference is to and the
nature I guess I’m going at what is what
is my understanding is that what is
being avoided in that situation is the
question of whether a former president
or you know can be held criminally
liable for doing the alleged act that is
being asserted in that statute
consistent with the Constitution so we
look at the statute it’s got some
elements in it and we are saying well
gez if this statute and elements apply
to the president’s conduct in this
situation we’d have to a answer the
question can the president be held
liable consistent with the Constitution
for that behavior is that right so the
first step in that analysis I just want
to yes but the first step is is there
ambiguity and these statutes apply to
any person they apply to whoever there’s
no ambiguity in those phrases this court
in nardone versus United States
concluded that similar words and any
person apply to government officials all
right well assume let’s just assume that
we I guess I’m just trying to get at
we’re avoiding a constitutional question
if we do that in in the ordinary case
and and what’s confusing to me about
this case is that we’re not being asked
to avoid the Constitutional question in
fact the question of whether or not the
president can be held liable consistent
with the Constitution or does he have
immunity is the question that’s being
presented to us so I don’t understand
how the clear statement kind of analysis
even works it seems completely tological
to me for us to hold that presidents
cannot be prosecuted under any criminal
statute without a clear statement from
con uh Congress to avoid the question of
whether or not the Constitution allows
them to be prosecuted we’d have to have
a reason right I mean we’ we’d have to
have a rationale for applying the CLE
clear statement rule I I think would
have to have some rationale that’s not
evident in either the existing Doctrine
or the text and just one data point for
the court in thinking about how the
clear statement rule Works in United
States versus Sun diamond is a case
about gratuities that the court is
probably familiar with Justice Galia
wrote an opinion for a unanimous Court
in which he used a hypothetical about
what would happen if the president
received a sports replica Jersey at a
typical White House Event would that
violate SE
2011c and the court offered a
construction that it had to be for
because an official act to avoid that
problem I think if there was such a
well-received understanding that
presidents are not included in general
Federal Criminal Law uh unless the
president is specifically named which he
is not in section 2011 Justice Scalia
would have thought of that and some
member of the Court would have reacted
and none did all right let me go on to
ask about um what you take the
petitioner’s position to be in this case
because we’ve had a lot of talk about
drawing the lines um Justice Kavanaugh
Justice Gorsuch suggested that we should
be thinking about blasing game and um
that within the first we have private
versus official and then within official
now we have something about core acts
versus other acts as we try to figure
out you know at what level the president
is going to have immunity but I took the
petitioner’s argument in this case not
to be inviting us to engage in that kind
of analysis I thought he was arguing
that all official acts get immunity and
so I didn’t understand us to be um
having to drill down on which official
acts do and so my question is why isn’t
it enough um for the purposes of this
case given what the petitioner has
argued to just answer the question of
whether all official acts get immunity
uh that that is enough and if the court
answers that question the way that the
government has submitted that resolves
the case I want to make a clarification
that I may have left the court with some
uncertainty about the official act
analysis that my friend is talking about
is the Fitzgerald versus Nixon Outer
Perimeter test which is extremely
protective of the president it’s not
looking at core vers versus ancillary
it’s saying everything the president
does is a target for private civil
lawsuits that is not a great thing and
therefore they are all cut off that’s an
absolute immunity kind of concept right
anything that’s official in the Outer
Perimeter is not subject to liability
that is right and so we don’t have to
then go well okay we have the bucket of
official now let’s figure out which
within that might be subject to
liability not on the theory of absolute
immunity correct neither on the theory
of absolute immunity or on our Theory uh
on his theory everything’s protected on
our Theory there is no immunity but this
is where I would draw the distinction
there are as applied constitutional
challenges that you run through the
Youngstown framework and this Court’s
customary method of analysis and you
determine whether there’s a infringement
of Article 2 so what you’re saying is
even if we reject the absolute immunity
Theory it’s not as though the president
is you know doesn’t have the opportunity
to make the kinds of arguments that
arise as at the level of you know this
particular act or this particular
statute has a problem in uh retrospect I
think I hear you saying we should not be
trying to in the abstract set up those
boundaries ahead of time as a function
of sort of blanket immunity allow each
uh allegation to be brought and then we
would decide in that context yes with
with the additional note that petitioner
has never made that argument and I think
it would be up to a district court to
decide whether to go that route at this
point in the litigation he’s put all of
his eggs in the absolute immunity basket
all right and if we if we invite uh you
know if we see the question presented as
broader than that and we do say let’s
engage in the core uh official versus
not core and try to figure out the line
um is this the right vehicle to hammer
out that test I mean I I’d understood
um that the most if not all but most of
the allegations here there’s really no
plausible argument that they would fall
into core versus not such that they are
immune we don’t think there are any core
acts that have been alleged in the
indictments that would be off limits as
a matter of article two so if we were
going to do this kind of analysis try to
figure out what the line is we should
probably wait for a vehicle that
actually presents it in a way that
allows us to test
the different sides of the uh the
standard that we’d be creating right I
don’t see any need in this case for the
court to embark on that analysis all
right the final sort of uh set of
questions that I have have to do with
what I do take as a very legitimate
concern about uh prosecutorial abuse
about future presidents being um
targeted uh for things that they have
done in office I I I take that concern I
think it’s a real thing but I wonder
whether some of it might also be
mitigated by the fact that existing
administrations have a self-interest in
uh protecting the presidency that they
understand that if they go after the
former guy soon they’re going to be the
former guy and they will have created
president that will be problematic so I
wonder if you might comment on whether
some of the caution from the justice
department and the prosecutors and
whatnot come
from an understanding that they will
soon be former presidents as well I
think absolutely and I would locate this
as a structural argument that’s built
into the Constitution itself the
executive branch I think as this court
knows has executive branch interests
that it at times asserts in opposition
to Congress so that the proper
functioning of the president is
protected and I believe that that value
would be operative and is operative in
anything as momentous as charging a
former president with a crime and I
would also say I think and ask you to
comment on you know pre presidents are
concerned about being investigated and
prosecuted and it chills to some extent
their you know ability to uh do what
they want in office and that’s a concern
on one side but can can you comment on
the concern about having a president
unbounded while in office a president
who knows that he does not have to
ultimately uh follow the law because
there is really nothing more than say
political accountability in terms of of
impeachment I mean we have amicus briefs
here from Professor leaderman for
example who says um you know a president
would not be prohibited by Statute from
perjuring himself under oath about
official Matters from corruptly altering
destroying or concealing documents to
prevent them from being used in an
official proceeding from warning others
to commit perjury from bribing Witnesses
or public officials and he goes on and
on and on about the things that a
president in office with the knowledge
that they have no criminal
accountability would do I see that as a
concern that is at least equal to the
president being worried so worried about
criminal prosecution that he you know is
a little bit Limited in his ability to
function so can you talk about those
competing concerns so Justice Jackson I
think would be a sea change to announce
a sweeping rule of immunity that no
president has had or has needed I think
we have also had a perfectly functioning
system that has seen occasional episodes
of presidential misconduct the nixen era
is the paradigmatic one the indictment
in this case alleges another for the
most part I believe that the legal
regime and the Constitutional regime
that we have have works and to alter it
poses more risks thank you thank you
thank you Council rebuttle Mr
sour I have nothing further your honor
thank you councel councel the case is
submitted the honorable court is now
adjourned until Thursday the 9th of May
at
10:00 we’ve just been listening to the
Supreme Court wrapping up oral arguments
ments over whether presidents are immune
to prosecution for crimes committed
while in office this case could have
major implications for the special
council’s election interference case
against former president Trump Trump’s
attorneys argued that without
presidential immunity from Criminal
prosecution there can be no presidency
as we know it they say if a president
can be charged tried and imprisoned for
decisions made in office every current
president will face deao blackmail and
extortion by political Rivals the doj’s
attorney argued that Theory would
immunize former presidents for criminal
liability for bribery treason sedition
murder and conspiring to fraudulently
overturn election results to stay in
power we heard the doj’s attorney also
add that the framers of the Constitution
didn’t include immunity in the
Constitution because they quote Knew Too
Well the dangers of a king who could do
no wrong we have full team coverage on
this historic supreme court hearing
starting with Terry Moran our chief
National correspondent who’s there
outside the court Terry what stood out
to you from these arguments
well this was a good day for Donald
Trump there’s no question about it uh he
came in with his lawyers his team
arguing that presidents should be
absolutely immune from Criminal
prosecution for any official act for
anything that could be interpreted as at
the outer perimeters of their official
duties he didn’t get that but a lot of
people thought that that argument would
get laughed out of the Supreme Court it
did not it was not hard to count to five
votes for some version of the Trump
claim essentially going back to the
trial court and saying try to
distinguish here what is a real official
act uh compared with what is a private
act by Donald Trump and and that frankly
will delay this trial it does feel like
that’s where the the court was headed
and that’s uh that is certainly a win
for Donald Trump not complete but a good
day for Donald Trump and I want to bring
in our legal contributor Asha Rapa
because Asha just as Clarence Thomas
started by asking Trump’s attorney about
the sord of presidential immunity why is
that so important to this
case well sorry Thomas is an originalist
and so he’s looking to the text of the
Constitution uh and so they’re trying to
look to where they’re deriving this uh
idea of absolute immunity we didn’t hear
from him for much of the rest of the
argument um but I agree with Terry that
you know Trump looks like he is set to
get a victory at least in the timing of
how this will all unfold his lawyers
went in really doubling down on what is
essentially an authoritarian argument I
mean it was quite astonishing uh his
lawyer said that he the president could
literally order the military to uh do a
coup against the government and
potentially be immune from prosecution
um and I don’t think the justices are
going to buy that uh but they did seem
to be wanting to split the hairs between
official and non-official acts not
necessar for this case but because they
claim that they were worried about the
precedential value and how it’s going to
apply in future cases justices were also
very focused on how to distinguish
between official acts and private
conduct and Justus as soda mayora at one
point asked whether president would be
immune if he decides his rival is a
corrupt person and Order someone to
assassinate him and Trump’s attorney
sour said that it would depend on the
hypothetical but that it could be an
official act so what do you make that
and his other responses to that whole
line of questioning about official
versus private
acts well it’s all the logical and of
his argument that Trump that uh
presidents as a general rule must have
absolute immunity from Criminal
prosecution so he got marched into this
parade of horribles right that he just
embraced could the president order the
assassination of his political rival
could the president stage a coup uh if
he had lost an election and essentially
he had to say given the basis of his
argument yes he did say there are
structural and and deeply human aspects
of the American government that would
stop that that parade of horribles that
essentially the defense department
wouldn’t participate in the military
coup that you that people wouldn’t help
him assassinate his political rival but
the logic of the Trump position is that
that if the president is absolutely
immune from Criminal prosecution for any
official act well then because the
president might need the authority as
President Obama exercised to order the
killing of an American citizen engaged
in terrorism overseas perhaps that could
be extended if the Rival was a dangerous
human being you could just invent the
hypothetical but he was stuck with that
position what was striking uh was that
it wasn’t greeted with outrage by uh by
the entire court that it people kind of
yeah okay well that that makes sense
given your position uh it is not going
to be the way this case comes out I
think the case is likely to come out in
some kind of Middle Ground
distinguishing between what’s a truly
official ACT versus what’s this a
private act by Donald Trump or any other
president uh but it’s a sign of how that
argument went that he that he accepted
those propositions and uh went on with
his argument and I want to bring in our
chief Washington correspondent Jonathan
Carl because Jonathan Justice Kavanagh
also asked about next steps and sour
said that the district court should need
to now determine what parts of this
indictment should be considered official
acts and which parts are related to
private act so how would that impact the
timing of this case if that were to
happen given we’re already a month past
over a month past the original trial
date and less than seven months to the
election well look the the the Trump
strategy for since the beginning of this
entire process of all of legal cases
against him has been delay delay delay
and that would undoubtedly significantly
delay this case if uh the uh the lower
courts had to go in and determine this
before a trial uh could go forward it
seems to me that you’re getting to the
point where it is impossible based on
the calendar to have a trial of uh of
Donald Trump on the January 6 case
before the election and of course uh
Trump has made it quite clear that if he
were to win that election there is no
way that this case goes forward he would
fire the special counsel he would
instruct his justice department uh to
drop it uh so really what we’re looking
at is if you have a process that is now
set up that sends this once again back
to the lower courts before a trial can
commence you have a situation where
Donald Trump May well never be held to
account in a criminal context uh for
what happened on January 6th uh but you
know I’m not sure that’s where this is
going uh I thought that one of the very
interesting uh uh things that happened
during uh the the the the the first part
of this hearing was Amy Cony Barrett
establishing that there are a whole
series of uh of allegations in the
special council’s indictment that are
even Trump’s attorneys acknowledging
private acts and therefore not immune
from prosecution so you know you could
have a a situation where the case is
able to go forward um and in the process
of laying out the case uh they’re they
would be a question of what’s private
and what’s public um but look if if if
this if the Supreme Court does not act
quickly on this and uh resolve it in
such a way that allows the case to go
forward the trial itself to go forward I
I I I do not think you will see this
case uh happen uh before the
presidential election and perhaps never
and I want to bring that point to our
chief justice correspondent Pierre
Thomas because Pierre if Trump’s lawyers
here are arguing that private acts can
still be prosecuted just not whatever is
considered official and you have one of
the Justice here saying that there are
several things in this indictment that
would be considered private acts what’s
the ultimate endgame well let me just
say this this was fascinating to listen
to for roughly two plus nearly two hours
and where I agree with John Carl is the
following everything to me is built on
how long it takes for the Supreme Court
to resolve what they’re going to do uh
because this issue isue of the private
acts versus the official acts is a core
issue because you had president Trump’s
own attorney ackowledge that sever
several of the allegations listed in the
indictment against former president
Trump could be considered private acts
and one of the uh justices raised the
possibility that the case could move
forward based simply on the justice
department Prosecuting president Trump’s
based on those private acts so the a lot
of you know things to be determined on
the timing again the most important
thing is how does long does it take for
the Supreme Court to make this ruling
what will be in uh the final argument
but I do think that one of the things we
can take away from this case is the
notion that a former president or a
sitting president could commit bribery
kill someone do these acts and not be
somehow held into account I didn’t get
the sense that the court was buying that
at all
and I want to bring in presidential
historian Mark upov uh to comment on
another part of this exchange because
Mark at one point Justice Jackson
suggested that previous presidents have
operated under the assumption that they
could have potential prosecution for
unlawful acts sour Trump’s attorney said
he disagreed with that he believes they
operated under the assumption that they
had immunity and then later the Justice
Department’s attorney said prior
presidents haven’t been charged in the
past because there were no crimes to
prosecute what do you make of that
argument and what’s at stake for the
office of the presidency as the Justice
consider these arguments and the
president this case could set well I’m
I’m deeply concerned Ian about the the
the precedent that this could set what
does it mean to have a far more robust
executive branch of the government our
government is exists because of a
balance of power between the three
branches of government the legislative
branch the judicial branch and the
executive branch and the executive
branch has become increasingly powerful
since the middle of the the last century
it’s become a more and more powerful
branch of government so what does it
mean if a president is given immunity uh
to act as he wishes and and if what what
is of particular concern is what does it
mean to the peaceful transfer of power
could a president an incumbent president
successfully block uh a fairly elected
president as president Trump tried to do
in 2020 so that is what our system of
government is based on that was is what
American democracy is about a peaceful
transfer of power what is this immunity
what if this went through what would it
mean for the future of our nation would
we have American democracy uh our
liberal uh uh de democracy as we have it
today there are big questions around
this Diane and there are major
precedents this that this would set in
motion Asha does the mere existence of
this case the first time a president of
is being prosecuted this way open the
door for future prosecutions to happen
now and do the justices have to take
that into consideration when deciding
this well many of the justices were
homing in on exactly that question that
this would somehow open the floodgates
uh there were several justices including
Alo and boruch who uh seemed skeptical
of the good faith of the criminal
justice system which is a little
interesting since in other contexts they
are often uh not so skeptical of the
Criminal Justice System but they seem to
be looking ahead and saying we need to
Fashion a rule one thing I will say is
at the very end there was a distinction
that was made that I wonder if might
prove to be a little bit of an offramp
whether it’s at the district court or
for the justices which is uh that this
uh special counsel’s lawyer said look to
the extent that there are official acts
mentioned in the indictment he’s not
being prosecuted for those act for for
engaging in those acts those acts are
there as evidence as evidentiary value
for his motive and intent for doing
these other things um and I think that
was a really important distinction and
it may come into play again in their
opinion or if it gets remanded to the
district
court so Terry sometimes during these
oral arguments we can get a sense of how
some of the Justice are leaning by the
questions that they ask so did anything
stick out to you from these arguments in
in that respect and what are you
watching for
next risky Venture but there’s no
question that what John Carl has already
pointed out Pier Thomas as well Amy con
Barrett was up there not wanting to
embrace a robust theory of presidential
immunity criminal immunity she was
looking for that middle ground that some
of what is alleged in this indictment
some of the parade of horribles might be
official acts others private and so the
most likely result is as Asha just said
a remand send it back down to the trial
court and say before you proceed figure
out what crimes in here under are the
guidelines that we write qualify as
official acts others qualify as private
acts uh that would be the way the
argument seemed to go they might write
it differently if it does go that way
there’s no trial before the
election Thomas Terry Moran and Asha
Rapa thank you and we will have more
coverage of the supreme court hearing
and the hush money trial against former
president Trump right after the break
stay with
us but there’s some things that are so
fundamentally evil that they have to be
protected against one could say that
when the president is using the
trappings of his office to achieve a
personal uh uh gain then he’s actually
not acting officially I’m sure You’
thought of lots of hypotheticals where a
president could say I’m using an
official power and yet the president
uses it in an absolutely outrageous
manner if there’s no threat of criminal
prosecution what prevents the president
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here right now on ABC News live a
historic day across multiple courtrooms
Donald Trump the focus of coinciding
legal battles in Washington and New York
the Supreme Court just hearing arguments
on a Monumental question are presidents
immune from prosecution for crimes
committed while in office Donald Trump
himself inside a Manhattan Criminal
Courthouse while it’s all happening
listening to testimony in his criminal
hush money trial over those alleged
efforts to catch and kill un flattering
stories about him before the 2016
election and lying on the books to cover
it up we have live team coverage of the
former president’s legal battles and the
impact it all could have on the race for
the White
House good afternoon everyone I’m Kira
Phillips this is our top story this hour
Donald J Trump versus the United States
it’s against the backdrop of an already
devises 2024 presidential campaign the
US Supreme Court just heard arguments
about the former president’s claim of
absolute immunity the outcome could
determine whether Trump faces a federal
trial this year on four felony counts
pressed by special counsel Jack Smith
the justices appearing skeptical of
totally resolving the former president’s
immunity claim take a
listen all right we are going to work on
getting that sound and we will bring it
to you we do of course have Team
coverage starting off with my uh
co-anchor and Senior National
correspondent Terry Moran he’s just
outside the Supreme Court there we also
have our senior reporter kathern falers
our contributor and presidential
historian mark up grve also our
contributor and assistant Dean at the
Yale Jackson School of Law Asha Rapa all
right Terry let’s start with you just
your takeaways from the arguments today
well was a fascinating argument K
because it was an unprecedented claim an
extraordinary Claim by uh Donald Trump
and his legal team that President should
have Absol absolute immunity from
Criminal prosecution for any official
act they took as president official act
being defined within the farthest outer
perimeters of their duties no
president’s ever claimed that presidents
have recognized that presidents could be
tried for for crimes that’s why Gerald
Ford pardoned Richard Nixon because he
recognized president could be tried
that’s not what Donald Trump wants and
the bottom line he got part of what he
wanted it sounded like the the
conservatives on the court were
remarkably sympathetic to the notion
uh that President should have some form
of immunity not the whole thing that
Trump was asking for but there are there
are some things the president might do
that are official that might be
prosecuted in in after he leaves office
that need immunity and things that were
being raised uh the the notion uh that
was raised in the courtroom that George
W Bush’s case to the American people to
the Congress for going to war in in Iraq
maybe that was false could that
prosecuted uh the killing of anir alaki
a terrorist in Yemen born in the United
States an American citizen by President
Obama could that be prosecuted the
bottom line here uh they will probably
send this case back down to the trial
court with instructions to distinguish
what in the indictment is an official
act by President Donald Trump what in
the indictment was a private act by
Citizen and candidate Donald Trump and
if they do that it means this trial
likely won’t happen before the
election so John Carl let me bring you
into this discussion you know the timing
of this case is extraordinary with less
than 6 months until the November
election I mean Trump could easily
Escape judgment before the election and
if he wins it could be seen as a get out
of jail free
card yeah look if this gets sent back to
the lower courts if there is more uh to
be done before the trial can actually
commence uh if the Supreme Court
basically says uh that uh you know that
they are not in a position to uh to to
resolve this in a way that allows the
trial to get started right away uh this
trial is not going to happen um I mean
the Supreme Court needs to if the trial
is to happen before the election the
Supreme Court needs to act uh quickly by
quickly I mean you know if you just look
at the calendar uh by by the end of by
the end of May uh really really at the
latest uh and even then you’re looking
at a trial uh that would likely take
place uh in the fall like as we’re going
into the presidential campaign so if
there is any further significant delay
here uh I don’t see how this trial uh
can happen before the election and given
that Donald Trump has made it perfectly
clear uh what he thinks of uh this uh of
of this indictment uh if Donald Trump
wins
he’s going to fire Jack Smith the first
day he’s in office uh he’s going to
instruct his justice department uh that
this trial is to this case is to be
dropped and the bottom line uh Donald
Trump will not be held criminally
accountable uh for what happened uh in
the days leading up to January 6th and
on January 6th itself that’s pretty
astonishing when you think of what the
outcome could be and Katherine uh what’s
not astonishing we expected this uh
Trump is in New York of course for his
hush money trial and he continues to
speak rep uh reporters saying the same
thing over and over again about that the
judge is not allowing him to be here in
our nation’s capital for the Supreme
Court uh case let’s take a listen to
what he
said I would have loved to have been
there but this judge would not allow
that to happen I should be there but he
wouldn’t allow it to happen I think he
puts himself above the Supreme Court
which is unfortunate isn’t it but the
argument on immunity is very important
the president has to have
immunity did the judge really put
himself above the Supreme Court here
Katherine I don’t think that the judge
is putting himself above the Supreme
Court the judge is essentially following
the rules of criminal trial and Criminal
Court Trump has to be there every day
for his criminal trial unlike before
where he didn’t have to show up uh to
pre-trial hearings for example that clip
you played was of trump going into the
courtroom earlier today prior to the
Supreme Court arguments he just walked
out of that New York courtroom again
avoided the camera didn’t speak to
cameras and he couldn’t listen to these
arguments Kira he was sitting in a
courtroom in New York as you mentioned
so I’m sure now his lawyers are briefing
him on the arguments and I’m sure he
will have something to say after he
learns more about what transpired at the
Supreme Court and Asha just to follow up
on what John Carl said you know will the
justices carve out any kind of immunity
in the criminal context you think
well they certainly seem to be looking
in that direction at least the
conservative justices they seem to be
saying you know it’s not so much this
case we’re worried about what could
happen to all the presidents down the
road and we need to Fashion some sort of
bright line rule um and so you know they
could come up with some sort of test on
how you determine what’s an official ACT
versus a private act you know whether
they’ll inquire into motive or whether
it’s going to be an objective test you
know and if they did that as uh Terry
mentioned it will definitely delay the
January 6 case and K I’ll also mention
that Trump has raised his immunity
argument in his uh maral Lago case with
the classified documents uh and in the
Georgia case where he’s been indicted um
and so you know even if they’re thinner
like for example in the classified
documents case which mostly took place
after he left office it could put a kink
in the plan in those prosecutions as
well to the extent that when those start
moving forward if there’s a fact finding
inquiry that has to happen so this could
have repercussions for not just the
January 6 case but others as well so
Mark let’s just talk about the fact that
we have a former president asking for
immunity from his crimes that he
committed in office it it’s it’s not
only
unprecedented it is so extraordinary on
so many
levels absolutely Kira this just simply
hasn’t happened before and and uh you
heard Terry Moran referenced Watergate
earlier and and Richard Nixon Richard
Nixon probably would have been convicted
for obstruction of justice charges had
it not been for the pardon he got from
Gerald Ford so it was very clear that a
president was responsible was was would
be held accountable for anything he did
that was outside of the law we’ve always
made that assumptions not
only for our around our presidents but
around any any official who is serving
in our government uh whether they be
elected or otherwise that is again one
of the Hallmarks of American democracy
our our accountability uh our our
transparency and so this is stunning on
many levels uh not the least of which is
is the precedent it would set for Donald
Trump’s or or or Joe Biden’s successors
what does this mean for presidents of
the future if if Joe Biden were to get
reelected what would would it mean for
him what would it mean for those who
would follow him into office so there
there are there’s a lot at stake in this
case here Kira but as you said it’s one
more thing from Donald Trump that is
absolutely
unprecedented appreciate you all
definitely uh is changing the shape of
the presidency for sure from our
nation’s capital now to downtown
Manhattan Donald Trump sitting at the
defense table as we mentioned for day
three now of witness testimony in his
criminal hush money trial former
National inquire publisher David pecker
takes the stand once again with more
testimony all about those hush money
payments that are at the center of this
trial the former president delivering
his morning remarks in the hallway as
you saw there uh of the courthouse just
before the proceedings began and he
continued to push those claims that none
of this would be happening if he weren’t
running for
president my constitutional rights have
been taken away from me uh but every
single expert every legal scholar every
respected scholar has said this is no
case there is no case
here but there is a case and that’s why
he’s in the courtroom let’s bring in our
senior investigative correspondent Aaron
kki now who’s outside Court along with
our legal contributor and trial attorney
Brian buckmire Aaron uh David pecker
back on the stand uh for the third day
let’s talk about the biggest takeaway
from his testimony so
far third day on the witness stand for
David pecker and his first mention of
stormmy Daniels who he said is or was a
porn star and Kira pecker recalled being
out to dinner with his wife on a
Saturday night in early October 2016 he
got an urgent call from one of his
editors he said informing him that
Stormy Daniels was shopping a story
about a sexual trist with Donald Trump
which he of course has long denied and
Dylan Howard said there have been a lot
of denials but this story is true on the
phone with Michael Cohen David pcker
said he advised Cohen got to buy up this
story because the national Inquirer
couldn’t it had already spent $30,000 on
a doorman’s unfounded Claim about a
trump L child and
$150,000 on Karen mcdougall’s story of a
year-long relationship with Trump and
pcker said I’m not a bank Cohen hem and
haod he said but finally pcker advised
him you better buy this up because if
you don’t and it gets out the boss
meaning Trump would be
angry and Brian on the stand pcker said
that he believed Trump knew about these
payments uh to buy Karen mcdougall’s
silence uh the the the Playboy Playmate
and all those allegations of the two of
them having an affair that’s a pretty
big admission for someone who had not
said anything about this case until
now well I’m attorney I probably say it
could be a big admission because we
haven’t got through cross examination as
yet and so for example if pecker gets up
there on cross-examination and is asked
well why do you believe believe that
Donald Trump knew about these um
conversations knew about this story and
it isn’t proven up through cross and
through what he says or someone else
takes a s and say no Donald Trump didn’t
know about this this was just Michael
Cohen’s own making something that the
defense is probably going to want to
push here then it’s going to be a battle
of those two statements who do you
believe more Becker or whoever has
contradicting information but if that
statement stays as it is now absolutely
you’re right very damaging for the
former president all right well Aaron
Trump has been named uh and an
unindicted co-conspirator now
conspirator rather in two other state
cases update us on
that it’s an extraordinary 24 hours in
the legal life of Donald Trump he has
been named an unindicted co- conspirator
in two state level cases about election
interference and fake elector schemes
one in Michigan and one in Arizona where
some of his top advisers have actually
been charged with bribery and forgery
and conspiracy talking about Rudy
Giuliani Mark Meadows Trump’s onetime
Chief of Staff in the White House even
Boris epin his legal adviser who’s here
with him in this courtroom today after
being criminally charged in Arizona uh
the the former president as an
unindicted co-conspirator isn’t going to
face any any charges here but it the
indictment in Arizona says that he was
part of this scheme to keep him in
office even though Joe Biden won Arizona
in
2020 Aaron kerki Brian buckmire thank
you both coming up bombshell ruling why
New York’s highest court overturned the
rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
[Music]
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morning America’s number one early
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live glad you’re streaming with us we
are following breaking news for you this
hour uh we want to take you to New York
now where the state’s highest court has
overturned the rape conviction of movie
producer Harvey Weinstein the New York
Court of Appeals finding the trial judge
prejudiced Weinstein with improper
rulings including a decision to let
women testify about allegations that
were not part of the case Weinstein was
a well-known powerful man as you know
within the entertainment industry and
prosecutors say that he abused his power
to take advantage of an of a number of
aspiring female actors like to Co coers
them into unwanted sexual encounters
Einstein was arrested in 2018 and
charged with rape and criminal sexual
assault he was found guilty in 2020 of
both those felonies prosecutors say the
testimony of those women other than
those whose claims form the basis of the
criminal charges spoke to Weinstein’s
State of Mind to use forceable
compulsion spokesperson for Weinstein
saying they are happily surprised in
studying the ruling that Weinstein is
also convicted of sex crimes in Los
Angeles and sentenced to 16 years in
prison there because he’s already
convicted in California he will not be
released but instead transferred to the
custody of prison authorities in
California there’s a lot uh to discuss
here let’s bring in our contributor and
former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
Boyce also our legal contributor Brian
buckmeier Bob first to you I mean you
were the lead investigator on this case
against Weinstein there in New York what
is your reaction uh to this
decision uh it’s disgust mostly we put a
lot of work into this thing and when you
look at it this is a this was a strategy
that’s got this overturn not the
witnesses they found them in credible
and did a great job in heroic stand on
testifying against Mr Weinstein so it’s
a difficult time for them to do it
they’re gonna have to do it again and
it’s not fair to them to go through all
that through all that testimony in that
public Clare but that’s what’s gonna
happen so uh everybody’s a lot very
upset in New York right now about this
Brian what do you think I mean what what
played into this appeals court decision
you think
so looking at the decision and also
being one of the attorneys who sat and
watched this trial it was the fact that
too many what we call Malo Witnesses or
uncharged bad act Witnesses meaning that
they were alleged victims in a case but
none of their testimony was attributed
to a charge they were able to testify uh
to at length and the the sorry the court
saw that the judge in the trial made an
erroneous decision allowing that and the
issue is that he might have been
convicted because of the propensity
information not necessarily the
allegations that came out and so to
Bob’s Point yeah the investigation was
great the Witnesses were strong but the
strategy in which the prosecutors went
about this and also the fact that uh
Weinstein might not have been able to
testify because of the evidence against
him the court said that it has to be
reversed so Bob The Manhattan DA’s
office could decide to retry him what’s
the likelihood that that could happen
given today’s decision by the appeals
court and do you think it’s a good idea
oh K I believe he has to this was a
foundational case to the me T me uh two
movement and it started everything um s
of domino things of people in power
abusing women so I can’t see how he
doesn’t do it and I think he’s already
committed to it already however that’s
gonna be take a while bear in mind that
Mr Weinstein is wanted to do 16 years
out in California so he’s not getting
out of jail but these things can’t go we
can’t let these things go past he has to
be
retried Brian if you were on the case
and if we do see a retrial and and and
that was you um having to make an
argument in court this time around for
Weinstein I mean what happens what does
he
say well I think the argument is is that
the number of uncharged Witnesses or
uncharged alleged victims that testified
was too high so now from a defense
standpoint it’s a re-evaluation of the
case uh to Bob’s point the the the
victims and we’ll call them victims even
though the case was overturned and
because they were found to be victims by
the jury they were believed and so the
question becomes is will their testimony
lack um any kind of strength because
they won’t have four other women that
are also going to testify in a similar
way or will you have a potential defense
here because it may be fewer alleged
victims testify it looks a little bit
better for the defense here but the only
question is how much
better all right Bob Brian appreciate it
thanks so much coming up all those
protests happening on campuses across
the us we’re going to take you to where
those demonstrations are popping up and
calming down
[Music]
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[Music]
live developing this hour new protest
amid the Israel Hamas war encampments of
anti-war protesters popping up on
campuses from coast to coast more than a
dozen people arrested at the University
of Maryland today where students joined
the protest Movement by staging a now
4-day sit in for Palestinians then in
Atlanta protesters clashing with police
on Emery University’s campus even
reports of getting tased Georgia State
Troopers also making several arrests
there let’s bring in our Phil Lipoff
he’s been following all the developments
for us from coast to coast let’s start
with the University of Maryland just
outside of Washington DC here what
happened at this sit in so K over the
past 4 days of protesting at the
University of Maryland it has been
relatively peaceful we say relatively
compared to other protests we’ve seen
we’ve seen about a dozen arrests as you
mentioned today uh but for the most part
it’s been a sit in to show solidarity
with the hundred or so protesters we
already saw arrested at Colombia here in
New York City and to make demands that
UMD divest from Israel in every way some
of the students there with very close
and personal ties to
Gaza all of our family is in Raa so
they’re under bombardment they’re having
the issues with food they don’t have
food they don’t have water uh their
houses are being bombed and our
relatives have been being killed just
want Maryland University of Maryland to
just recognize that like hey I do exist
I need their support um I need them like
I would love for them to divest I don’t
want my money or tuition money to go
towards like war and killing
people and K on the other side of that
you have Jewish students at all of these
campuses who report ABC news that they
feel uh you know threatened and
uncomfortable and unwelcomed on campus
when some of the protesters are using
words like you know
genocide all right let’s go to Emory
University now in Atlanta and you know
we we’ve heard um the strong language we
heard it yesterday as these protests
were taking place that calply USC uh
Columbia University and and hearing uh
even the house Speaker Mike Johnson
talking about uh hearing the students
yelling and profanities and talking
about genocide and and he was extremely
concerned about the Jewish students they
feeling threatened and intimidated um
and now we have protests popping up in
Atlanta on Emer University’s campus and
and they turned violent apparently so
what
happened well I mean you mentioned other
campuses says we’ve seen 100 people
arrested overnight at Emerson USC 93
Yale 45 the University at Emory says a
few dozen people actually came on to
campus Kira they say were not members of
the school Community Outsiders who they
say then set up tents on the quad and
then began to clash with police as you
see as police said in and take those
tents away because like on many campuses
most campuses you can’t just set up
tents on an encampment or occupy a
building for that matter at Northwest
University in Illinois dozens of
students have set up a tent encampment
there and are calling it a free Gaza
liberated Zone the problem is none of
these encampments are seen as liberated
space of course by the schools that they
are happening at a Northwestern says the
tents are a violation of school policy
and when police moved in to take them
down protesters linked arms as you see
here to try to prevent police uh from
doing their job and today at Princeton
in New Jersey the university says two
students have been arrested for tres
passing students there looking for
Princeton as well to divest from doing
any kind of business with Israel even
academically they’d like a lot of these
schools to divest from semester abroad
programs with schools in Israel uh also
to show support for members uh of other
protest areas that were arrested already
by uh police Kira all right stay on top
of it Phil thanks so much and thanks to
all of you for streaming with us I’m
Kira Phillips the news never stops as
you can see and neither do we we’ll be
right back more news on the other side
[Music]
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tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
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begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
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ABC’s World News Tonight with David mure
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[Music]
sunshine right now in ABC News live a
historic day across multiple courtrooms
Donald Trump the focus of coinciding
legal battles in Washington and New York
the Supreme Court just hearing arguments
on a Monumental question are presidents
immune from prosecution for crimes
committed while in office but Donald
Trump inside a Manhattan Criminal
Courthouse listening to testimony in his
criminal hush money trial over those
alleged efforts to catch and kill and
flattering stories before the 2016
election and lying on the books to cover
it all up we have live team coverage of
the former president’s legal battles and
the impact it could have on the race for
the White House come November good
afternoon everyone I’m Kira Phillips as
you can see it is our top our top story
this hour Donald J Trump versus the
United States it’s against the backdrop
of an already divisive 2024 presidential
campaign and the US Supreme Court just
heard arguments about the former
president’s claim of absolute immunity
the outcome could determine whether
Trump actually faces a federal trial
this year on four felony counts pressed
by special counsel Jack Smith the
justices appearing skeptical of the
former president’s absolute immunity
claim take a
listen if someone with those kinds of
powers the most powerful person in the
world with the greatest amount of
authority um could go into office
knowing that there would be no potential
penalty for committing crimes I’m trying
to understand what the disincentive is
from turning the Oval Office into um you
know the the the the seat of criminal
activity in this country if the
potential for criminal liability is
taken off the table wouldn’t there be a
significant risk that future residents
would be emboldened to commit crimes
with abandon while they’re in
office we’ve got live team coverage
starting off with senior Washington
correspondent Deon DWI who’s outside the
Supreme Court right there Devin you know
much of the arguments from Trump’s
Attorney John sour and questions from
the justices centered on what amounts to
an official act let’s just talk about
why that is so crucial to the core of
this case
and presidential Powers comes down to
what are under Article 2 considered
official acts certain certain actions by
the Supreme Court are deemed so
essential they’re protected from any
prosecution or distraction during the
time the president is in office and
thereafter so today that’s so much of
the uh debate focused on whether or not
what’s alleged against Donald Trump
constitutes official or private acts
means bottom line Kira that it’s it’s
going to have to go back to a lower
court uh for some some sort of
arbitration of what is and isn’t in play
here that’s good news for Donald Trump
that’s the big takeaway today is that it
seems likely that while the Supreme
Court is going to reject his assertion
of absolute immunity they’re going to
leave it to a lower court perhaps to
sort out what sorts of actions alleged
could be prosecuted Kira so Trump is
convicted well I guess Mark do we have
mark up to
Grove okay good so Mark let me ask you I
mean you’re a presidential historian
here at this point if Trump is convicted
in this case you know would it make any
difference if if he’s convicted in this
case uh yeah it probably would uh if
he’s if he’s convicted in the the case
relating to the hush I’m sorry C the
hush money are you talking
about what that was not geared to you
and I apologize why don’t we look at
just after what Devon laid out with
regard to the arguments that we heard
today and let’s talk about the possible
outcome um of of of the decision prior
to uh the decision that will be made
prior to November uh and the election um
let’s let’s look at
both both both scenarios here um if this
goes in his favor if it doesn’t go in
his favor prior to November 2024
sorry Mark not at all there’s so much
confusion right now and I apologize not
at all uh I I think the the the concern
is for me just looking at this as an
American citizen let alone uh a
presidential historian car is is what
does this mean if Donald Trump is
considered immune from his actions on
January 6 what does it mean for the
future of our country what does it mean
for future presidents as they consider
the transition of power that is a a
Hallmark of American democracy the
peaceful transfer of power that’s what
makes our nation different uh Donald
Trump has been very successful in
delaying uh a decision around this this
is one more legal tactic that has kept
his legal fate at Bay um so so it would
be very interest interesting to see what
happens in this case Kira but uh not
only for Donald Trump but for the H the
future of our nation as it relates to
our nation’s highest office the
presidency uh again we are a nation that
holds our ele elected officials
accountable and that is always applied
to our highest office that of the
president of the United States Asha what
do you make of the Supreme Court’s
timing in this case and how it could
actually shape the presidency as we know
it well Kara let’s look at what this
case is about this is about someone who
allegedly used the awesome powers of his
office uh to keep himself in power and
to engage in illegal acts that impacted
other branches of government the
question here is will he be held
accountable and will even voters know
about the full breadth of that conduct
before they go to the polls and possibly
put him back in the office where he will
once again have those enormous levers of
power uh and I’ll add that those powers
would
include basically stopping all of these
investigations the federal ones at least
in their tracks um so it’s sort of you
know this kind of self-perpetuating
thing and of course if he gets into
office uh without this being resolved uh
there’s really no constraint on him
being able to do the same thing or even
more again especially given the uh
expansive theory that his lawyers
presented in court today
Devon can I ask you a question just
about the Supreme Court and the fact
that some of these justices a number of
these justices uh you know were
appointed uh by by the former president
um we haven’t really talked about that I
mean you you’ve seen a number of critics
out there saying how do we know the
Supreme Court isn’t in the tank you know
for Trump could you just sort of lay out
the concern and have
you seen protests or has that even come
up
uh in the first day
here there has been a lot of concern in
the leadup to this case Kira that the
three justices president Trump appointed
and the Court’s most senior conservative
Clarence Thomas um may be conflicted in
deciding this case Clarence Thomas’s
wife Jenny Thomas as you know
participated in events around January 6
she was advocating uh those false slates
of electors to help keep Donald Trump in
power then you have Amy Coney Barrett
Brett Kavanaugh Neil Gord it’s all
appointed by Donald Trump generally
favorable of conservative viewpoints but
I have to tell you today Cara you didn’t
see those stripes at play in the
courtroom it was not apparent and
certainly not overt that any of those
four particular justices were in the
tank for Donald Trump in fact uh Amy
Cony Barrett seemed to suggest that this
trial should move forward could move
forward on certain grounds indicated
that perhaps the special counsel could
drop some of the charges that could be
questionable as official acts and pursue
private acts purely private acts so
there was obviously an indication that
presidents should not be entirely above
the law but you did have somebody like
Brett Kavanaugh today uh Kira talk a lot
about the importance of a strong
presidency he served in the
administration of President George W
bush and was concerned about that
ability to protect Presidential Power
and uh as we heard Neil Gorsuch put it
at one point today Kira they are now
engaged in drawing a rule for the ages
this is something that every single one
of those justices acknowledged today in
that courtroom uh will have
ramifications far beyond Donald Trump
and far beyond this case they’re very
aware that they’re writing a decision
that will be impacting uh generations
and future presidents down the
line all right Devin Asha mark thank you
all so much and if you want to hear the
entire back and forth that actually took
place today in our nation’s Supreme
Court ABC News live will Air the full
arguments at midnight tonight from our
nation’s capital of downtown Manhattan
Donald Trump sitting at the defense
table for day three of witness testimony
in his criminal hush money trial former
National inquire publisher David pecker
taking the stand for a third day now
with more testimony regarding hush money
payments that’s at the center of this
one let’s bring in our executive
producer John sanui also legal
contributor and trial attorney Brian
buckmire so John we’re starting to hear
stormy Daniel’s name uh start to surface
yeah Kira it took a couple of days but
finally Stormy Daniels has made her
appearance if you will into the
courtroom what’s interesting here Kira
is that we’ve been hearing the
presentation from prosecutors building
up to this moment they’ve been
presenting evidence about other catch
and kill schemes that David pecker the
former publisher of the national
Inquirer was a part of with Michael
Cohen and Donald Trump all of which to
build to this moment of Stormy Daniels
the two other incidents involving a
former doorman at Trump Tower and
another woman Donald Trump had an affair
with Karen McDougall now in both of
those cases they were documented in a
different way although of course leading
up to the 2016 election but that’s the
difference between those two and the
Stormy Daniels payment it’s the way it’s
documented Kira that of course LED
prosecutors to bringing those 34
criminal counts of fake business
documents if you will that have brought
Donald Trump to where he is today so
they’re starting to go through that
process and I think what’s fascinating
about um what they’re explaining right
now in court with David pecker answering
questions is just the rev up in
conversations that Michael Cohen and
David pecker were having leading into
the fall of 2016 pecker sort of alluded
to this earlier in the week when he was
in the stand Kira but the difference
today is that now that we are entering a
timeline of the summer into the fall of
2016 as David pecker said the contact
and Communications with Michael Cohen
were increasing because of these stories
that were coming forward and Donald
Trump’s desire for pcker to catch them
kill them bury the stories and make sure
they never saw the light of day and then
Brian uh Becker who’s it’s very
interesting been on the stand for three
times in a row now somebody who has
never talked about any of this publicly
he has hidden from the Limelight now
he’s got to take the stand and talk
about these these stories this catch and
kill scheme these alleged payments that
were made and now the payments to Karen
McDougall buying her for for her silence
let’s talk about how significant uh his
testimony has been thus far whether it’s
Stormy Daniels Karen McDougall um all of
these allegations uh and even and truths
that uh have come forward uh since six
years ago when it all started to
break I think you muted yourself Brian
I’m telling you the Gremlins The
Gremlins are with us today I apolog
try it again my friend don’t worry I was
only saying that was John was right so
you didn’t really need to hear that part
anyways I was getting some more
important I’m just gonna add on to yeah
I’m just gonna add on to what John was
saying one thing that stuck out to me
was that in all of this uh at one point
pecker told us that he went to general
counsel about the payment I think for
Katherine McDougall and then ultimately
led to an argument that he had with
Michael Cohen that led to we’re just
going to rip it up this agreement we’re
not going to do this I think prosecution
struck a very good cord there because
what we’re getting to is this concept of
consciousness of guilt that the pecker
and the inquire looked at some of these
payments and someone said we can’t do
this anymore this is not good that could
be an issue that I think the prosecution
can point to and say even The Inquirer
knew that the way in which they were
doing this the documentation of
information the paying off of of for
these stories and how they went about it
was wrong to the point that this
agreement almost fell apart that to me
really stuck out as something that the I
think the jury is going to really think
we all knew this was wrong they knew
this was wrong why do they keep going on
to stormmy
Daniels all right John Brian thank you
so much appreciate it also coming up
that bombshell ruling that we’ve been
telling you about why New York’s highest
court overturned the rape conviction of
movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein you’ll
remember I started the me too movement
is this a movement backwards we’re going
to talk about it next
[Music]
Sunday night people think they really
know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you
Michael Michael stran John Von Joy I’m a
rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
on ABC tonight the Supreme Court takes
on the power of the presidency oral
arguments begin in Donald Trump’s bid
for immunity plus tornado severe weather
the 10 states in the path more Americans
turn to World News Tonight with David
mure the most watched newscast on
[Music]
[Applause]
television
[Music]
I come it all to
me give it to me why do so many people
start their day here from ABC News this
is start here to be in the know and get
a different take on the day’s top
stories a lot of news today so let’s get
into it listen now to the Daily News
podcast honored with four Edward R murl
Awards and see why the New York Times
calls it a news podcast worth listening
to start here ABC News make it your
daily first listen now that’s a part of
the story I bet you didn’t see coming
wherever you get your podcasts start
here first thing in the morning there’s
a lot going on got another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
between how does billionaire sound
sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
American This Morning America’s number
one early morning news on ABC News
live glad you’re streaming with us we
are following breaking news for you this
hour uh we want to take you to New York
now where the state’s highest court has
overturned the rape conviction of movie
producer Harvey Weinstein the New York
Court of Appeals finding the trial judge
prejudiced Weinstein with improper
rulings including a decision to let
women testify about allegations that
were not part of the case Weinstein was
a well-known powerful man as you know
within the entertainment industry and
prosecutors say that he abused his power
to take advantage of an of a number of
aspiring female actors like to co coers
them into unwanted sexual encounters
wiste was arrested in 2018 and charged
with rape and criminal sexual assault he
was found guilty in 2020 of both those
felonies prosecutors say the testimony
of those women other than those whose
claims form the basis of the criminal
charges spoke to Weinstein’s State of
Mind to use forceable compulsion
spokesperson for Weinstein saying they
are happily surprised in studying the
ruling that Weinstein is also convicted
of sex crimes in Los Angeles and
sentenced to 16 years in prison there
because he’s already convicted in
California he will not be released but
instead transferred to the custody of
prison authorities in California there’s
a lot uh to discuss here let’s bring in
our contributor and former NYPD chief of
detectives Bob Boyce also so our legal
contributor Brian buckmire Bob first to
you I mean you were the lead
investigator on this case against wiin
scene there in New York what is your
reaction uh to this
decision uh it’s disgust mostly we put a
lot of work into this thing and when you
look at it this is a this was a strategy
that’s got this overturn not the
witnesses they found them in credible
and did a great job in heroic stand on
testifying against Mr Weinstein so it’s
a difficult time for them to do it
they’re GNA have to do it again and it’s
not fair to them to go through all that
through all that testimony in that
public Clare but that’s what’s going to
happen so uh everybody’s a lot very
upset in New York right now about this
Brian what do you think I mean what what
played into this appeals court decision
you think so looking at the decision and
also being one of the attorneys who sat
and watched this trial it was the fact
that too many what we call Malo
Witnesses or uncharged bad act Witnesses
meaning that they were alleged victims
in a case but none of their testimony
was attributed to a charge they were
able to testify uh to at length and the
the sorry the court s that the judge in
the trial made an erroneous decision
allowing that and the issue is that he
might have been convicted because of the
propensity information not necessarily
the allegations that came out and so to
Bob’s Point yeah the investigation was
great the Witnesses were strong but the
strategy in which the prosecutors went
about this and also the fact that uh
Weinstein might not have been able to
testify because of the evidence against
him the court said that it has to be
reversed so Bob The Manhattan DA’s
office could decide to retry him what’s
the likelihood that that could happen
given today’s decision by the appeals
court and do you think it’s a good
idea I care I believe he has to this was
a foundational case to the me me uh two
movement and it started everything um s
of domino things of people in power
abusing women so I can’t see how he does
do it I think he’s already committed to
it already however that’s going to be
take a while bear in mind that Mr
Weinstein is wanted to do 16 years out
in California so he’s not getting out of
jail but these things can’t go we can’t
let these things go past he has to be
retried Brian if you were on the case
and if we do see a retrial uh and and
and that was you um having to make an
argument in court this time around for
Weinstein I mean what happens what does
he say
well I think the argument is is that the
number of uncharged Witnesses or
uncharged alleged victims that testified
was too high so now from a defense
standpoint it’s a re-evaluation of the
case uh to Bob’s point the the the
victims and we’ll call them victims even
though the case was overturned and
because they were found to be victims by
the jury they were believed and so the
question becomes is will their testimony
lack um any kind of strength because
they won’t have four other women that
are also going to testify in a similar
way or will you have potential defense
here because there may be fewer alleged
victims testify it looks a little bit
better for the defense here but the only
question is how much
better all right Bob Brian appreciate it
thanks so much coming up all those
protests happening on campuses across
the us we’re going to take you to where
those demonstrations are popping up and
calming down
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Fighters is this our combat Operation
Center we’re approaching the gate now
militants came in from four or five
different directions operational nuclear
reactor so you have a couple loaded and
ready to
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right
here made the USA look at your smile
you’re proud of this I love this great
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hi where are you where are you appr
David good to meet you is David
David yes yes I’m David M I know who you
are you every
night ABC’s World News Tonight with
David mure is America’s most watched
newscast Sunday night people think they
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source developing this hour new protests
amid the Israel Hamas war encampments of
anti-war protesters popping up on
campuses from coast to coast more than a
dozen people arrested at the University
of Maryland today where students joined
the protest Movement by staging a now
4-day sit in for Palestinians then in
Atlanta protesters clashing with police
on Emery University’s campus reports of
getting tased Georgia State Troopers
also making several arrests there let’s
bring in our Phil Lipoff he’s been
following all the developments for us
from coast to coast let’s start with the
University of Maryland just outside of
Washington DC here what happened at this
sit in so K over the past four days of
protesting at the University of Maryland
it has been relatively peaceful we say
relatively compared to other protests
we’ve seen we’ve seen about a dozen
arrests as you mentioned today uh but
for the most part it’s been a sit in to
show solidarity with the hundred so
protesters we already saw arrested at
Colombia here in New York City and to
make demands that UMD divest from Israel
in every way some of the students there
with very close and personal ties to
Gaza all of our family is in ra so
they’re under bombardment they’re having
the issues with food they don’t have
food they don’t have water uh their
houses are being bomb and our relatives
have been being killed just want
Maryland University of Maryland to just
recognize that like hey I do exist I
need their support um I need them like I
would love for them to divest I don’t
want my money or tuition money to go
towards like war and killing
people in here on the other side of that
you have Jewish students at all of these
campuses who report to ABC news that
they feel uh you know threatened and
uncomfortable and unwelcomed on campus
when some of the protesters are using
words like you know
genocide all right let’s let’s go to
Emery University now in Atlanta and you
know we we’ve heard um the strong
language we heard it yesterday as these
protests were taking place at calp USC
uh Columbia University and and hearing
uh even the house Speaker Mike Johnson
talking about uh hearing the students
yelling and profanities and talking
about genocide and and he was extremely
concerned about the Jewish students
they’re feeling threatened and
intimidated um and now we have protest
popping up in Atlanta on Emery
University’s campus and and they turned
violent apparently so what
happened well I mean you mentioned other
campuses we’ve seen 100 people arrested
overnight at Emerson USC 93 Yale 45 the
University at Emory says a few dozen
people actually came on to campus Kira
they say were not members of the school
Community Outsiders who they say then
set up tents on the quad and then began
to clash with police as you see as
police said in and take those tents away
because like on many campuses most
campuses you can’t just set up tents on
an encampment or occupy a building for
that matter at Northwestern University
in Illinois dozens of students have set
up a tent encampment there and are
calling it a free Gaza liberated Zone
the problem is none of these encampments
are seen as liberated space of course by
the schools that they are happening at a
Northwestern says the tents are a
violation of school policy and when
police moved in to take them down
protesters linked arms as you see here
to try to prevent police uh from doing
their job and today at Princeton in New
Jersey the university says two students
have been arrested for trespassing
students there are looking for Princeton
as well to divest from doing any kind of
business with Israel even academically
they’d like a lot of these schools to
divest from semester abroad programs
with schools in Israel uh also to show
support for members uh of other protest
areas that were arrested already by uh
police k
all right stay on top of it Phil thanks
so much and thanks to all of you for
streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
news never stops as you can see and
neither do we we’ll be right back more
news on the other
[Music]
side what does it take to be the most
watched newscast in
America an operation to capture Isis
Fighters This our combat operation sir
we’re approaching the gate now militants
came in from four or five different
directions operational nuclear reactor
so you have a couple loaded and ready to
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right
here made in the USA look at your smile
you’re proud of this I love it great
work
hi where are you where are you
appreciate you thank you David good to
meet you is David
D yes yes I’m David M I know you are you
every
night ABC’s World News Tonight with
David mure is America’s most watched
newscast this is the first time you are
sitting down like this to tell your
story Britney are you ready you’ve been
told to go through your bag and you felt
felt the cartridge what were you
thinking that moment when you felt that
my life is over right here you’ve just
been told you’re going to be 9 years in
one of the worst prisons in
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC this is ABC News live the
crush families on the ground in Ukraine
ABC News live America’s number one
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streaming 24/7 straight to you for free
thank you for making ABC newsl America’s
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live and good afternoon everyone I’m
Kira Phillips today on ABC News live
Donald Trump a former president and
current presidential candidate facing
multiple legal battles all centered
around charges of corrupting elections
court on lunch break right now but Trump
is back at the defense table for day
three of witness testimony in his
criminal hush money trial former
National inquire publisher David pecker
taking the stand once again facing
questions about alleged efforts to catch
and kill unflattering stories before the
2016 election he set to resume testimony
as soon as lunch concludes all of this
happening as we are also covering a
historic and unprecedented day for the
United States Supreme Court the highest
court in the land hearing arguments over
presidential immunity and whether former
president Trump can be prosecuted for
his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020
election while he was still in office we
have Team coverage leading us off our
investigative reporter Olivia Rubin is
with us along with our legal contributor
and trial attorney Brian buckmire Olivia
let’s start with you in New York David
pecker testifying once again he was
twice summoned to twum Tower in the
post-election period for meetings with
Michael Cohen Trump’s former fixer what
did he claim about those meetings right
now Kira those meetings that pecker
spoke about were after the payments had
already been made uh for the three catch
and kill schemes to the doorman to Karen
McDougall and to Stormy Daniels and the
first meeting he spoke about was a
meeting with Michael Cohen where he
essentially Michael Cohen confirmed that
he had made the payment to Stormy
Daniels to keep her claims quiet but he
also Kira expressed concern to David
pcker that he personally had not been
paid back for the payment to Stormy
Daniels and also that he had not yet
been given a bonus and that was sort of
a theme that we saw in this morning
session in the court concern about from
people David pecker Michael Cohen who
were paying for these stories and were
not getting their reimbursements so in
that uh meeting Michael Cohen actually
asked David pcker if he would go to
Donald Trump and vouch for him and talk
about all of the work that he had done
burying these stories which David pecker
testified to the jury that he did do and
he said that Donald Trump replied I
don’t know what you’re talking about
Michael Cohen has Trump Tower Apartments
Michael Cohen has taxi medallions he
said don’t worry about it we’ll take
care of him and then just briefly that
second meeting uh David pcker said he
went to Trump Tower once Donald Trump
was already Vice president-elect and he
threw out some uh names that are a bit
of a blast from the past there from 16
he talked about how Ryan prus was there
how sean Spicer was there how Mike
Pompeo was there and Donald Trump was
being uh briefed on some sort of
shooting that had occurred and he said
he took that time to ask David pecker uh
you know how’s our girl Karen doing
apparently a reference to Karen
McDougall who uh he had paid to silence
and said you know thank you essentially
for all that you have done so really
fascinating uh meetings putting him in
the middle of that so Brian it seems
like we need to hear from Michael Cohen
now
absolutely I mean for the prosecution
what their job now is to just lump on
more coroporation that these meetings
existed people were in those meetings
and these conversations occurred and
everyone understood what was going on
but the interesting point I think though
is what’s it defense going to do because
either they’re going to just try to
destroy the credibility of the
individuals in those meetings to say you
can’t believe them for X Y and Z reason
or put forward their own information to
suggest that a different narrative or a
different understanding those words
occurred the question that I’m having in
my mind is who would that witness be
other than Donald Trump so my question
I’m more curious as to how are you gonna
fight back these very strong
allegations Olivia Rubin Brian buckmire
and so it goes heading into the next
days uh we will talk some more now let’s
go from New York to our nation’s capital
where as you know it’s Donald J Trump
versus the United States right now
against the backdrop of an already
divisive 2024 presidential campaign the
US Supreme Court just heard those
arguments about the former president’s
claim of absolute immunity the outcome
could determine as you know whether
Trump faces a federal trial this year on
four felony counts pressed by special
counsel Jack Smith but the justices did
appear skeptical today of the former
president’s absolute immunity claim take
a
listen it’s someone with those kinds of
powers the most powerful person in the
world with the greatest amount of
authority
um could go into office knowing that
there would be no potential penalty for
committing crimes I’m trying to
understand what the disincentive is from
turning the Oval Office into um you know
the the the the seat of criminal
activity in this country if the
potential for criminal liability is
taken off the table wouldn’t there be a
significant risk that future presidents
would be emboldened to commit crimes
with abandon while they’re in
office we’ve got live team coverage
starting off with our senior Washington
correspondent Deon DWI just outside the
Supreme Court there are also our senior
reporter kathern falers and our
political political director Rick kleene
plus our legal contributor and law
professor at the University of Baltimore
Kim wayy also our presidential historian
and contributor M Mark upd Grove I think
we have every base covered with this
panel Devin let’s start with you um and
the justices um how did they seem to
lean today just based off their
questions to Trump lawyers and then of
course listening to the skepticism right
there in the
recordings well it seemed very clear
Kira that the Supreme Court at least a
majority of the justices are not buying
Donald Trump’s argument of absolute
immunity for any act he took while in
office so that is a blow to Trump in one
sense at the same time today the Supreme
Court didn’t seem to be buying the
appeals court decision giving
categorical categorical green light to
criminal prosecution of Donald Trump so
where does that leave us well somewhere
in the middle the Supreme Court a
majority of the conservatives seem to
suggest that private acts of a president
those he took while in office to
ingratiate himself and a personal level
could be prosecuted but not official
acts things like you know issuing a
pardon or a veto of of a bill for
example or appointing an ambassador
those sorts of things should be
protected so they were trying today to
come to some Middle Ground about how to
decide what’s an official act that’s
protected a private act that’s not and
as Neil Gorsuch put it today Kira that’s
going to be a rule for the ages and that
will take some time for them to sort out
so on the whole it seemed to be a win
for Donald Trump this is something
that’s going to have to now get sorted
out in a lower court and that will
likely mean as you put at the top that
that trial that everybody’s concerned
about won’t go forward very quickly uh
possibly not even this summer Kira I
think this is all a moment in time for
the ages as well Katherine this is just
one of many Trump legal cases that are
happening right now let’s talk about how
he is respond responding to this
particular case while he has been in a
courtroom in Manhattan during his hush
money trial well Kira as you know while
these arguments at the Supreme Court
were ongoing Trump was sitting in that
New York courtroom so he was not able to
monitor any of these arguments in real
time certainly during that lunch break
up there he was briefed on what happened
what transpired in court so he did make
some comments at the beginning of the
day before The Supreme Court argument
started where he said what we’ve heard
him say multiple times that every
President should have immunity in his
view um that that would obviously
protect his decision making while
President but at the same time I think
it’s worth pointing out the
contradiction that Trump has made while
he claims that he should be immune from
acts while President he also says that
if he’s reelected that he wants to
prosecute President Joe Biden for
example that would cut directly against
the claims that his lawyers are making
and that he’s making publicly so he
hasn’t reacted yet specifically to these
arguments I’m sure he will come to the
cameras at some point
soon yes he usually does and Rick you
know all these legal hurdles are you
think they’re hurting or just fueling uh
the Trump campaign right now the
difference you have to dissect on this
is the difference between his core base
which anything that doesn’t kill him
makes him stronger he has only drawn
strength from all these legal
proceedings versus a general election
audience we’ve seen consistently in
polling Kira that that voters may not
think that this case right now before
the the court in New York is all that
serious but they do think that the
January 6 related charges are quite
serious and they’ve said to pollsters
consistently that they’re less likely
people are less likely to support him
for president if he’s convicted of a
serious crime so the the the timeline
here matters a lot the New York case
aside because that’s full steam ahead
what the court does next do they carve
out some room for potential delays that
push this into the fall or even beyond
the presidential election that could
matter quite a bit but it is a
remarkable day and a remarkable week for
the former president all these legal
legal issues crashing in opposite and
sometimes of very different directions
but all of them posing a giant
distraction for a candidate who’d rather
be talking about Joe Biden right
now and he still manages to do that
every now and then saying that this is
all Biden’s fault which is not true um
but Kim you know this talk about the
Supreme Court is it in the tank for
Trump you’ve got uh justice Thomas’s
wife who helped lead the stop the steel
campaign and there have been critics out
there saying that Justice Thomas should
have recused himself from this
case well I would agree with that uh
that he has an interest a material
interest in the outcome potentially um
this is It’s troubling for a lot of
reasons keep in mind we would not even
be having this discussion if it weren’t
for Donald Trump in January 6 there’s
never been a time in American history
where there’s had to even put on the
table criminal immunity for presidents
um the court this conservative Court who
reversed o Row versus Wade on the theory
that abortions not expressed in the
constitution is now poised to
manufacture out of thin air criminal
immunity for presidents it’s not in the
Constitution and today um Justice Thomas
didn’t do a lot of questioning but his
conservative colleagues really seemed
more concerned about Rogue prosecutors
crossing boundaries of Ethics than
presidents crossing boundaries of ethics
and frankly Kira to watch it it was
almost like we’re not living in the same
time frame um because you know at one
point Alo even acknowledged that uh
interfering with the peaceful transfer
of power is a problem but he seemed to
think that’s why we need to have
immunity for presidents because
otherwise they’ll pardon themselves and
immunize themselves that way it got it
got a little bit twisted uh Kira and you
have to ask yourself what the what
really what’s incentivizing some of
these justices this
moment a little twisted unprecedented
historic I think of all these adjectives
we’ve been using Mark I mean clearly
what is happening right now um is is
going to shape the presidency in some
way shape or form a lot of people saying
that you know that’s at stake here
without question that is what’s at stake
here the expansion of powers uh in the
executive branch of the government by
the that the the the
uh the the the leader of the Free World
and and it’s amazing that the Catalyst
for this is January 6th uh so one
wonders will Donald Trump ever be held
accountable for uh fomenting an
Insurrection uh on on his own country in
order to retain power and to overturn a
free and fair election uh it’s one of
the many paradoxes of the of the Trump
era in American history Kira so there
will be a lot of attention
on this Supreme Court case and what it
means for the future of the presidency
and for the future of our nation Devin
Katherine Rick Kim and mark thank you
all so much I don’t think there’s any
doubt right that the shape of the
presidency is at stake here especially
after that conversation this is a
divisive 2024 presidential campaign and
the Man in the center of the Supreme
Court case is not only leading in the
polls but he also has 18 Republican
Attorneys General now who file an amicus
brief urging the highest court in the
land to reverse the lower court and
Grant Trump blanket immunity this effort
is being led by Alabama’s attorney
general Steve Marshall Attorney General
Marshall joins me now Steve good to see
you you know I want to look back at
something you said about this case uh
you said if this prosecution is designed
to silence or imprison the sitting
president’s political opponent right
before the election it is an abuse use
of the justice system that the Supreme
Court should take seriously you know the
question that’s before the court Steve
is not about imprisonment it’s about
whether a president should have blanket
immunity we’re talking about checks and
balances we have already witnessed Trump
pushing the boundaries of checks and
balances like challenging certified
election results and ring his base that
led to an Insurrection so I want to ask
you are you concerned at all with abuse
of
power clearly a concern about abuse of
power but let’s look at where power has
been abused already it took 30 months
for the special prosecutor to bring
these charges that relate to facts that
have been reported for quite some time
and when we look about the question of
delay whether or not we’re going to have
a trial in a timely manner they don’t
need to look at president Trump’s trial
team the question is why the special
Counsel had to wait so long to bring
these charges to begin
with so Steve the the Justice
Department’s attorneys are AR that
Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020
election results were not official
conduct but rather campaign conduct that
Trump’s efforts were not motivated for
the country but for self-interest in
re-election do you
agree now I don’t agree in fact if you
look at the arguments being made before
the court Trump’s legal team
specifically said that this immunity
claim is not tied to private acts but
only to the official actions of the
president which is entirely consistent
with how we’ve treated the president
under civil law to be able to Grant
absolute immunity relating to their
official actions and it’s broader than
simply president Trump this has to do
with the ability of presidents to be
able to lead the executive branch
without looking over their shoulder we
think that this is an important argument
in fact the special counsil must have
believed the same thing because he
attempted to have the Supreme Court to
be able to consider it before the DC
court of appeals could weigh in to begin
with but the core tenant of our justice
system is equal justice for all why
should the president be immune to
that well we’ve recognized the issue of
immunity for officials of a public
nature for quite some time this is
obviously the first time in which we’ve
had to examine whether or not
presidential immunity would apply to a
criminal prosecution president Trump
didn’t bring this upon himself but in
fact it was brought not only by
prosecutors who waited many many months
to be able to come forward but let’s
look at also what’s going on in the
state of of Georgia where we have
prosecutors running a campaign on
whether or not they’re going to look
into Donald Trump I’ve been a prosecutor
now for almost 30 years my
responsibility is to follow facts and
not chase people what we’ve seen with
the efforts around Donald Trump is an
effort with a results driven
investigation to try to convict a man
not to allow the fact to dictate where
those prosecutions should go so Steve
you mentioned Georgia ABC News is now
reporting that based on analysis Trump
appears to be an unindicted
co-conspirator in Arizona’s case against
so-called fake elector he’s also the
unindicted co-conspirator in Michigan’s
case and we have the Georgia
racketeering case related to election
fraud wouldn’t a grant of immunity for a
president accused of such crimes
endanger a peaceful transfer of
power what is more uh at least
encouraging for me is the fact that the
president’s going have the ability to
use immunity to try to address what are
democratically driven prosecutions of
the man who’s now in line to be in the
presidency again the criminal justice
system ought to be acted impartially to
give individuals a fair opportunity to
litigate their claims it doesn’t need to
be an aggressive effort to use the
criminal justice system to be able to
support other political candidates in an
election nor to attack those they don’t
want to serve in office one more
question if immunity is granted this
could extend to any future president
including a Democratic president would
you support that
absolutely Alabama attorney general
Steve Marshall appreciate your time and
if you want to hear the entire back and
forth that took place today in our
nation Supreme Court ABC News live will
Air the full arguments at midnight
tonight straight ahead it was a
bombshell ruling why New York’s highest
court overturned the rape conviction of
movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein
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glad you’re streaming with us we do have
breaking news out of New York where the
state’s highest court has now overturned
the rape conviction of movie producer
Harvey Weinstein the court finding the
trial judge prejudiced Weinstein and let
women testify about allegations that
were not part of the case well Weinstein
was a well-known powerful man in the
entertainment industry but prosecutors
said that he abused that power that he
took advantage of aspiring female actors
Weinstein was arrested in 2018 and he
was charged with rape and sexual assault
then in 2020 he was found guilty of both
those felonies lawyers representing
Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
take a
listen there are some people who are
very unpopular in our
society but we still have to apply the
law fairly to them and in this
Courthouse behind us at that trial the
law was not applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein let’s bring in our contributor
and former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
Boyce and also our legal contributor
here at ABC Brian buckmeyer Bob you were
the lead investigator on that case
against Weinstein you know the ins and
outs of that case better than anyone
what was your reaction to
this surprise I didn’t see didn’t think
this was going to happen so when it did
it did surprise me and I will say from
the outset this was not about the
witnesses or the victims who who um
testified against Mr Weinstein this was
about a strategy the prosecutor used
bringing uh people to speak about him
and with not charging for those crimes
that’s what this is about it’s not in
any way detriment to their credibility
this is what happened in this case we’re
surprised by it we certainly hope that
Mr uh Mr brg retries the
case so Brian let’s talk about the
evidence
uh that played into the appeals Court’s
decision here and then also what Bob
just said about retrying the
case yeah so for the appell court
they’re looking at this from an issue of
quantity not quality and to Bob’s point
it’s not the quality of the evidence but
the the quantity of it especially when
it comes to uncharged Witnesses what the
attorney Arthur adala was talking about
about being unfair you can see him there
in that green hat as uh Bary Weinstein
kind of walks into court is that we have
this rule that you cannot have evidence
that it’s more prejudicial than it is
probative and the argument here is that
those uncharged Witnesses prejudiced
Harvey Weinstein without giving
probative information or not enough
probative information and that It
ultimately uh perhaps tilted the jury
verdict towards a guilty based on that
prejudice rather than the evidence of
the
case so Bob you interviewed so many of
these victims I want to say survivors um
what do you say to them today and light
of of this
news it’s difficult to speak of this
because they they really gave up a lot
by testifying they gave up you know
they’re under this public glare for soat
long time their names in the paper they
really stepped forward and created a new
environment of me too that people were
going to step forward and not going to
be afraid of people in power so I would
ask them quite BL just stay with it do
the retrial let’s put this guy away and
and and make sure that this was not all
done in vain because of it because of
the strategy that this really did happen
we we interviewed so many people Cara
Cara who said the same thing about it in
the exact same Amo ammo that he used so
there’s a lot of evidence there that was
not brought into the trial this may
happen in the second trial Brian
Weinstein has also been convicted of sex
crimes in California for which he’s
serving prison time will today’s ring
impact that in any
way it will in the sense that I expect
the defense attorneys to revisit that
California case and see if there are any
similarities while this case was decided
based on New York law California and
many other states have similar arguments
that you should only put for information
that’s more probative than prejudicial
not the other way around so they’ll
evaluate the witnesses and to Bob’s
Point yes I do think they’ll retry this
case for the defense they’ll push
forward on it defending him well be
following it Bob Brian thanks guys so
much appreciate you coming up protests
across the US on college campuses we’re
going to take you to some of the newest
demonstrations that are popping up and
what universities doing about
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live developing right now new
encampments of anti-war protesters
popping up on other campuses now from
coast to coast more than a dozen people
arrested at the University of Maryland
where students staged a Sittin for
Palestinians today then in Atlanta
protesters clashing with police on Emory
University’s campus even reports of
getting tazed Georgia State Troopers
also making several arrests there let’s
bring in our Phil lip off he’s been
following all the developments so let’s
start with the protest at the University
of Maryland uh not far from here uh in
ABC News in the center of uh DC what
happened Phil
we say relatively because there have
been some real dust UPS all across this
country but it doesn’t arrest today as
you mentioned but for the most part it
has been a sit in to show solidarity
with the 100 or so protesters arrested
at Colombia here in New York City last
week and to make demands that UMD divest
from Israel in every way some of the
students there with some very close and
personal ties to Gaza
all of our family is in Raa so they’re
under bombardment they’re having the
issues with food they don’t have food
they don’t have water uh their houses
are being bombed and our relatives have
been being killed just want Maryland
University of Maryland to just recognize
that like hey I do exist I need their
support um I need them like I would love
for them to divest I don’t want my money
or tuition money to go towards like war
and killing
people certainly is a valid concern
there are many Jewish students on
campuses all across this country that
find a lot of this rhetoric anti-semitic
Kira so let’s go to Emory University now
in Atlanta where things actually turned
violent what do you know yeah that was
one of the many places it turned violent
Emory the university says a few dozen
people here came onto campus who
actually not members of the school
Community they set up tents in the quad
and began to clash with police take you
to Northwestern University in Illinois
dozens of students have set up tent and
camp cment there and are calling it a
free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
none of these encampments are actually
seen as liberated Space by any of the
school administrations that they are
happening at Northwestern says the tents
are a violation of school policy and
when police moved in to take them down
protesters linked their arms uh and
tried to keep folks away from them these
are live pictures where guys from this
is from Northwestern so you can see
they’re surrounding the tents there
again the school says this is not their
policy uh to allow this to happen
they’re negotiating with the folks who
were there at UC Berkeley want to
mention this kir campus with a very
proud Legacy as you know of embracing
social protest an encampment grew
overnight students say they will not
leave until the school Cuts all ties
with Israeli schools and companies with
ties to Arms suppliers and they want the
University of California to forly
recognize Israel’s actions as genocide
and again many Jewish students on that
campus say they feel intimidated not
welcomed with with all these uh tents
and encampments and they find a lot of
the rhetoric from the protesters
anti-semitic Phil appreciate your
reporting and thanks so much for
streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
news never stops neither do we we’ve got
a lot more on the other
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David yes yes I’m David M I know you are
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a lot of news today so let’s get into it
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everywhere I’m Kira Phillips right now
on ABC News live Donald Trump a former
president and current presidential
candidate facing the multiple legal
battles all centered around charges of
corrupting elections Trump back at the
defense table for his criminal hush
money trial that’s resuming after a
short lunch break former National inquir
publisher David pecker once again back
on the stand facing even more questions
about those efforts to catch and kill
all those unflattering stories about
Trump before the 2016 election let’s
bring in our executive producer John
santui also our legal contributor and
trial attorney Brian Meer so John let’s
just talk about the latest out of court
and and what more we’ve been hearing uh
from pecker this afternoon yeah Cara
it’s been interesting happening right
now downtown in lower Manhattan where
David pecker is talking more and more
about his relationship between Donald
Trump and Michael Cohen and himself and
the catchin kill scheme they devised to
find negative stories about Donald Trump
leading up to the 2016 presidential
election basically paying people off to
buy their silence now obviously we know
this case case that Donald Trump was
indicted for by Manhattan prosecutors
involves the case of Stormy Daniels the
former porn star but there are two other
incidents Kira that David pecker has
been walking prosecutors through
involving a former door man that worked
for the former president and a former
Playboy Playmate that he had a longtime
affair with Karen McDougall what pcker
is describing today so far Kira is
really starting to dig into the stormy
Daniel’s relationship this was the one
of course that caused much heartache to
Donald Trump because Stormy Daniels was
shopping her story and David pecker has
been talking to prosecutors outlining
how through his sources when he was the
publisher of the national Inquirer that
they heard about Stormy Daniels they
heard she was trying to sell her story
for
$120,000 pecker stepped in to buy the
story to catch it to kill it for
$130,000 thus buying her silence leading
up to the 2016 election so Brian your
top takeaway from from pecker testimony
so
far it’s really the buildup that John is
talking about how there’s a distinction
between the doorman the distinction
between Karen and then now uh Stormy
Daniels that in the first two there
seemed to be some friction because it
seemed like the inquire had to fit the
bill uh and I many people I’m John
probably better at talking about this
I’ve heard rumors that Donald Trump is
not good at paying his bills back and so
there’s that friction of like when am I
going to get paid when am I going to get
paid but with storyy Daniels there’s
this uniqueness that we’re expecting to
hear that uh the reimbursement through
paying of stormmy Daniels and the
reimbursement of paying back Michael
Cohen and then how that all happen and
intertwined is where the crime exists
that there seem to be another function
as to why and how this story need to be
paid for that ultimately brings us to
this
case and so John one of Trump’s top
advisers who’s believed to have been
named in the Arizona indictment last
night actually accompanied Trump to
court today what did you make of B step
seene being with the former president
it’s remarkable it’s very reminiscent of
Walt Nao who of course was indicted
alongside Donald Trump in the federal
case where Donald Trump took documents
to Mara Lago right by his side Arizona
case of course Just Happening last night
here as you mentioned where you know
over a dozen individuals including fake
electors and some top advisers to Donald
Trump were indicted now are
understanding of the indictment because
Boris Epstein is not named what we
believe is his name was redacted because
he was not formally served but based on
our understanding of the indictment it
does appeared Boris Epstein Rudy
Giuliani and Mark Meadows are among
those close to Donald Trump that were
indicted but Epstein being right there
Kira almost 12 hours later it just shows
yet again Allah Walt NADA these are a
close circle of AIDs that remain
extremely loyal and close to Donald
Trump but nevertheless Kira he along
with the others now facing another round
of charges yep and Brian the defense
will get a chance to pick apart uh
Pecker’s claims that Michael Cohen
sought to disguise the true nature of
the Karen McDougall deal and that Trump
was aware so what do Trump’s lawyers
need to focus on in order to convince
the jury that that was not the case
there’s always there’s already been so
much coverage about this alleged Affair
that he had with the Playboy
Playmate yeah so I think it’s twofold
one of of course we’ve always been
talking about credibility try to destroy
the credibility of this witness why
should the jury believe this person uh
point out the fact that this was a
beneficial relationship this individual
had the ability to uh kind of bump
elbows or rub El elbows with the
president and maybe he was doing this of
his own accord or at least this might
have been an agreement just between uh
pecker and Cohen and keep Donald Trump
out of it the other thing I think would
be is how sure are you and that being
the kind of the question to ask pecker
how sure are you that this is what
Donald Trump meant are you kind of
filling in the blanks yourself is this
the investigation making you leaning
towards this bias that he wanted uh for
this to be paid back in this way that
led to criminality I think if you can
create an environment where it’s just
these two men and keep Donald Trump out
of it who is creating the scheme and
it’s Michael Cohen who’s pushing it that
may bring the defense into a better
place but only time will tell him and
what we’ve seen of Donald Trump when he
steps outside and says it was a legal
expense that’s what you’re supposed to
do that kind of butts head with that
argument but it’s the best I think you
could do it with this
witness how about Trump continuing to to
violate the gag order adding four new
contempt counts today John when are we
going to learn about the judge’s ruling
on that issue and where could that go
well I mean either we’re going to learn
about the ruling or he’s going to
violate it a couple more times this is
remarkable Kira so prosecutors as you
know asked for you know 10 violations to
be cited while they were making that
presentation earlier this week in court
they added an 11th for comments he made
outside of court now they’re adding four
more and one of them they’re adding Kira
is actually comments Donald Trump made
to our state
wpv leading up to the Pennsylvania
Republican primary earlier this week
where he attacked Michael Cohen which is
of course another violation of the gag
order that says no attacks on Witnesses
now we’re waiting on the judge to rule
here but there’s a couple different
things that could happen option one
nothing it’s a warning to Donald Trump
knock it off you got to stick within the
confines but clearly he keeps violating
it so I don’t think that’s going to
happen option two you hit them with the
fine prosecutors have said they want
$1,000 per violation I’m not great at
math but I think we’re up to 11 12 we’re
up to 15 so that’ be $155,000 right
there if they stick with that the third
which is fascinating could actually be a
bit of jail time and if we think that
sounds nearly impossible it’s not the
Secret Service earlier this week our
team confirming had conversations with
the NYPD and Court officials Kira to
prepare for just that John Brian thanks
guys well from New York City to our
nation’s capital it’s Donald J Trump
versus the United States in this next
story it’s against the backdrop of an
already divisive 2024 presidential
campaign as you know the US Supreme
Court just heard those arguments about
the former president’s claim of absolute
immunity that outcome could determine
whether Trump faces a federal trial this
year on four felony counts pressed by
special counsel Jack Smith the justic is
appearing pretty skeptical though of the
former president’s absolute immunity
claim today take a
listen if the potential for criminal
liability is taken off the table
wouldn’t there be a significant risk
that future presidents would be
emboldened to commit crimes with abandon
while they’re in
office we have live team coverage
starting off with our senior Washington
correspondent Deon DWI just outside the
Supreme Court legal contributor and law
professor at the University of Baltimore
Kim wayy contributor and presidential
historian mark up Grove all right Devin
your takeaways from court today well the
court was indeed skeptical of his claim
of absolute immunity Cura but this was a
very good day for Donald Trump and one
key indicator of that was at the end of
nearly three hours of oral arguments and
I was in that chamber uh Trump’s
Attorney John sour was given the chance
to give a rebuttal and he said nothing
further your honor that’s extraordinary
in its own right I’ve seen a lot of oral
arguments never seen uh the plaintiff’s
council not take advantage of that time
and that’s for two reasons one uh Donald
Trump seems likely here to at least gain
some time and that’s because the
justices seem to indicate at least a
majority of them that some more hashing
out needs to be done about what sorts of
immunity what sorts of actions by by a
President are covered by immunity that
will take time in the lower court and at
the end of the day also Kira that means
a narrowing probably of charges both
sides today in this argument agreed that
while yes there are some private actions
that are contemplated in the indictment
against Donald Trump that could be
pursued uh first they would need to
figure out which official actions
therein could be removed from the
indictment also taking a good bit of
time so at the end of the day Donald
Trump effectively wins here on the on
the substantive practical matter and
that’s a trial before election day seems
a lot less likely that this major
election interference case will go
forward and certainly be resolved before
November
kir so Kim Justice Amy con Barrett also
asked a series of probing questions
about of Trump’s attorney rather
indicating that she too is skeptical of
the position taken here by Trump’s teams
distinguishing between official and
private acts could you sort of lay out
the significance of that in the
difference and and where this was
going well so there is such a thing as
civil immunity for presidents the idea
that if a president does a presidential
thing regular citizens can’t file a
lawsuit and get money from from the
president later for negligence for
example and and she was taking or the
council took that distinction from the
Civil context official versus unofficial
conduct private versus public conduct
it’s why the case went against Bill
Clinton for sexual harassment while he
was still president because that was
Private conduct the concern here is how
do you make that distinction is it going
to be an objective test that you just
sort of look at what the ACT is or are
you going to probe to see what they
really meant to do I think think the the
the harm here is if the court goes with
this distinction uh we have to not just
think about whether the trial will go
forward with Donald Trump but if someone
like Donald Trump gets in the white
house again uh the concern is you just
sort of put some fluff around your
actions to make them look official on
paper we’re not going to probe whether
they’re actually meant to be committing
crimes and then all of a sudden you get
complete immunity green lighting crimes
in the Oval Office and I think that’s
what Justice Jackson was really worried
about but I age with Devon I think the
majority is going to go with some kind
of a test between private and public and
whether that’s really probing and it’s
going to protect the the the public
frankly from wrongdoing from crimes from
a criminal Enterprise with the massive
powers of of the Oval Office that is
sitting in these five justices hands
essentially the majority in this moment
it’s really
daunting Mark uh are there any
historical parallels here you know
you’re used to to me saying this Kira
the the answer is really no once again
this is more or less unprecedented the
last we saw uh a president’s legal fate
in the balance was with Richard Nixon uh
after he resigned uh in the face of
charges that he had obstructed Justice
in the the Watergate scandal and then he
was pardoned uh a month after leaving
the presidency by Gerald Ford so uh that
we really haven’t seen anything like
this and it’s worth noting that Gerald
Ford pardoned Richard Nixon in order to
get the legal fate of Nixon out of the
public Consciousness so that the the the
nation could move to other pressing
issues like stagflation we had a major
problem with their economy and the
lingering war in Vietnam so uh this is
again another example of something that
hasn’t happened before and as was
mentioned earlier it plays to Donald
Trump’s favor because it delays this
trial we might not have a verdict in
this trial until after the election if
there is uh a case that goes forward at
all given what’s at stake here so Mark
Justice kavanov focused on that today so
how this moment compares to Watergate he
said that President Ford’s pardon of
Richard Nixon was very controversial in
the moment but now it’s looked upon as
one of the better decisions in
presidential history do you agree I I I
do I think there’s there’s there are
varying opinions on that but I think
Gerald Ford was looking at the moment
not the precedent that he was set in kir
he was looking at the country at that
time and he believed that as long as the
country was focused on solely on the on
the legal fate of Richard Nixon we
couldn’t get on as a nation he wanted
the nation to heal he told me many times
when I interviewed him through the years
that he thought it was the right thing
to do to heal the nation and it was
certainly a politically courageous thing
to do because it probably cost him the
presidency in his own right when he ran
in 197 6 and lost to Jimmy Carter I
think most historians would generally
agree that it was the right thing to do
but the concern is did it set a
precedent for something like we face
today and I don’t think that’s something
that Gerald Ford could have foreseen
when he granted the pardon in 1974 Kira
is Trump politically
courageous I I I don’t think so no Trump
is in no way politically courageous this
is a tactic uh meant to uh delay uh this
verdict so that it will not be a factor
in the election later this year and it
seems to be working here wanted to make
clear of the difference there appreciate
you mark Devin Kim thank you and if you
want to hear the entire back and forth
that took place today in our nation’s
Supreme Court ABC News live will Air the
full arguments you ready for this
midnight
tonight coming up it was a bombshell
ruling we’re still talking about it New
York’s highest court overturning the
rape conviction of movie Mogul Harvey
winstein yeah we got the details
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Fighters is this our combat Operation
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ready to
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there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right
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you’re proud of this I love it great
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hi where are you where are you
appreciate you thank you David you is
David David
yes yes I’m David M I know you are you
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lot of news today so let’s get into it
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here glad you’re streaming with us we do
have breaking news out of New York where
the state’s highest court has now
overturned the rape conviction of movie
producer Harvey Weinstein the Court
finding the trial judge prejudiced
Weinstein and let women testify about
allegations that were not part of the
case well Weinstein was a well-known
powerful man in the entertainment
industry but prosecutors said that he
abused that power that he took advantage
of aspiring female actors Weinstein was
arrested in 2018 and he was charged with
rape and sexual assault then in 2020 he
was found guilty of both those felonies
lawyers representing Weinstein spoke
about today’s ruling take a
listen there are some people who are
very unpopular in our
society but we still have to apply the
law fairly to them and in this
Courthouse behind us at that trial the
law was not applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein let’s bring in our contributor
and former NYPD chief of detectives Bob
Boyce and also our legal contributor
here at ABC Brian buckmire Bob you were
the lead investigator on that case
against Weinstein you know the ins and
outs of that case better than anyone
what was your reaction to
this surprise I didn’t see didn’t think
this was going to happen so when it did
it did surprised me and I will say from
the outset this was not about the
witnesses or the victims who who um
testified against Mr Weinstein this was
about a strategy the prosecutor used
bringing uh people to speak about him
and would not charging for those crimes
that’s what this is about it’s not in
any way detriment to their credibility
this is what happened in this case we’re
surprised by it we certainly hope that
Mr uh Mr brg retries the
case so Brian let’s talk about the
evidence uh that played into the appeals
Court’s decision here and then also uh
what Bob just said about retrying the
case yeah so for the appell court
they’re looking at this from an issue of
quantity not quality and to Bob’s point
it’s not the quality of the evidence but
the the quantity of it especially when
it comes to uncharged Witnesses what the
attorney Arthur adala was talking about
about being unfair you can see him there
in that green hat as uh Harvey Weinstein
kind of walks into court is that we have
this rule that you cannot have evidence
that is more prejudicial than it is
probative and the argument here is that
those uncharged Witnesses prejudiced
Harvey Weinstein without giving
probative information or not enough
probative information and that It
ultimately uh perhaps tilted the jury
verdict towards a guilt based on that
prejudice rather than the evidence of
the
case so Bob you interviewed so many of
these victims I want to say survivors um
what do you say to them today in light
of of this
news it’s difficult to speak of this
because they they really gave up a lot
by testifying they gave up you know they
under this public glare for some long
time their names in the paper they
really stepped forward and created a new
environment of me too that people were
going to step forward and not going to
be afraid of people in power so I would
ask them quite BL just stay with it do
the retrial let’s put this guy away and
and and make sure that this was not D
done in vain because of it because of
the strategy that this really did happen
we we interviewed so many people Cara
Cara who said the same thing about it in
the exact same Amo ammo that he used so
there’s a lot of evidence there that was
not brought into the trial this may
happen in the second trial Brian
Weinstein has also been convicted of sex
crimes in California for which he’s
serving prison time will today’s reing
impact that in any
way it will in the sense that I expect
the defense attorneys to revisit that
California case and see if there are any
similarities while this case was decided
based on New York law California and
many other states have similar arguments
that you should only put for information
that’s more probative than prejudicial
not the other way around so they’ll
evaluate the witnesses and to B’s Point
yes I do think they’ll retry this case
for the defense they’ll push forward on
it defending him we’ll be following it
Bob Brian thanks guys so much appreciate
you coming up protests across the US on
college campuses we’re going to take you
to some of the newest demonstrations
that are popping up and what
universities are doing about
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live developing right now new
encampments of anti-war protesters
popping up on other campuses now from
coast to coast more than a dozen people
arrested at the University of Maryland
where students staged a Sittin for
Palestinians today then in Atlanta
protesters clashing with police on Emory
University’s campus even reports of
getting tazed Georgia State Troopers
also making several arrests there let’s
bringing our Phil lip off he’s been
following all the developments so let’s
start with the protest at the University
of Maryland uh not far from here uh in
ABC News in the center of uh DC what
happened Phil it doesn’t arrest today as
you mentioned but for the most part it
has been a sit in to show solidarity
with the hundred or so protesters
arrested at Colombia here in New York
City last week and to make demands that
UMD divest from Israel in every way some
of the students there with some very
close and personal TI to
Gaza all of our family is in Rafa so
they’re under bombardment they’re having
the issues with food they don’t have
food they don’t have water uh their
houses are being bombed and our
relatives have been being killed just
want Maryland University of Maryland she
just recognized that like hey I do exist
I need their support um I need them like
I would love for them to divest I don’t
want my money or tuition money to go
towards like war and killing people
certainly is a valid concern there are
many Jewish students on campuses all
across this country that find a lot of
this rhetoric anti-semitic
Cara so let’s go to Emory University now
in Atlanta where things actually turned
violent what do you know yeah that was
one of the many places it turned violent
Emory the university says a few dozen
people Cara came onto campus who
actually not members of the school
Community they set up tents in the quad
and began to clash with police take you
to Northwestern University in Illinois
dozens of students have set up tent
encampment there and are are calling it
a free Gaza liberated Zone the problem
is none of these encampments are
actually seen as liberated Space by any
of the school administrations that they
are happening at Northwestern says the
tents are a violation of school policy
and when police moved in to take them
down protesters linked their arms uh and
tried to keep folks away from them these
are live pictures where guys from this
is from Northwestern so you can see
they’re surrounding the tents there
again the School says this is not their
policy uh to allow this to happen
they’re negotiating with the folks who
were there at UC Berkeley want to
mention this kir campus with a very
proud Legacy as you know of embracing
social protest and encampment grew
overnight students say they will not
leave until the school Cuts all ties
with Israeli schools and companies with
ties to Arms suppliers and they want the
University of California to forly
recognize Israel’s actions as genocide
and again many Jewish students on that
campus say they feel intimidated not
welcomed with all these uh tents and
encampments and they find a lot of the
rhetoric from the protesters
anti-semitic Phil appreciate your
reporting and thanks so much for
streaming with us I’m Kira Phillips the
news never stops neither do we we’ve got
a lot more on the other
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live and good afternoon everyone I’m
Kira Phillips today on ABC News live
Donald Trump a former president and
presumptive Republican nominee facing
multiple legal battles all centered
around charges of corrupting elections
Trump back at the defense table for his
criminal hush money trial former
National inquire publisher David peer
taking the stand once again after a
lunch break facing questions about all
those efforts to catch and kill
unflattering stories about Donald Trump
before the 2016 election all of this
happening as we are also covering a
historic and unprecedented today for the
United States Supreme Court the highest
court in the land hearing arguments over
presidential immunity and whether former
president Trump can be prosecuted for
his efforts to overturn the 2020
election while he was still in office
leading us off this hour our
investigative reporter Livia Rubin just
outside Court where trial has resumed
after that brief recess also our legal
contributor and trial attorney Brian
buckmire so Olivia what can you tell us
about Trump’s mannerisms in court or any
obvious jury reactions maybe uh during
the Saucy testimony they’ve been
hearing well Trump does appear focused
on the testimony that his old friend
David pecker is giving especially when
he is recounting some of the specific
conversations that he personally had
with Donald Trump or with his attorney
Michael Cohen uh David pecker testified
in one instance about talking to Trump
directly about Michael Cohen that seems
something Trump was interested in his
attention did appear to sort you know
Wayne just based off of his body
language he was more slumped back when
it got into some of that more uh
laborious testimony where David peeker
is talking about the nitty-gritty of the
contracts and the payments and the
accounting of how his company uh the
national inquire shuffled that $130,000
payment over to Karen McDougall so he
seemed to dip out a bit but the jurors
also seem quite interested in the
testimony they are taking notes there
were times uh when pecker was talking
about a specific in and you could see
their heads going back and forth from
peka to pecker to their notes to Joshua
Stein glass as he’s asking uh the
questions but I also will just point out
there is sort of an interesting Dynamic
going on between the jurors and Donald
Trump something that’s so fascinating is
when the jurors come in and out of the
room all day Kira they are walked
directly in front of Donald Trump
basically just inches away from them and
something that’s so fascinating is that
as they’re right there they’re
essentially avoiding eye contact with
him when they get up close to them I
noticed that a bunch of them would look
down at the floor and look away so just
some really interesting courtroom
Dynamics underway in there oh yeah to
say the
least um Brian your thoughts on maybe
the most noteworthy moments from David
Pecker’s
testimony for me it’s still that
testimony or that part of the testimony
sorry where David pecker talks about the
the friction between him and Michael
Cohen where they almost went to rip up
the agreement between the two of them
and what started that from my
understanding looking in the testimony
is that David pecker took this payment
deal this this catch and kill scheme to
uh in-house Council and Tred to find a
way to categorize these payments because
Donald Trump wasn’t reimbursing uh the
inquire for those first two stories and
it almost got to the point where they
wanted to rip up the agreement because
inside Council uh said no we can’t do
this this is wrong to me that seems like
almost consciousness of guilt especially
if that information was related to
Michael Cohen and then ultimately to
Donald Trump as they push forward on
that Stormy Daniels case because at
least there’s an opportunity to say we
all knew this was wrong including Donald
Trump and we still went forward but this
is still the direct examination we still
have a cross- examination a redirect a
recross I think we’ll be back and forth
with David pcker for some time and we
can ultimately evaluate his testimony
when he’s done on the stand right and
Olivia some other Trump news even
developing like we don’t have enough
today um he’s been named as this
unindicted co-conspirator in two other
state cases how does this news now play
into already a historic
day well it’s never going to be a good
thing to be named as an unindicted
co-conspirator in a case where you know
a number of individuals were indicted we
know just from speaking to sources that
this is something that uh people around
him were watching very closely but if
you think about Donald Trump he has
already been indicted four time so it
was probably a relief that he was not
indicted for a fifth time so to be an
unindicted co-conspirator one at least
he is not indicted so it doesn’t exactly
have any bearing on this case but it is
just a reminder of the legal situation
that Donald Trump finds himself if you
zoom out for just a minute and think
about the 24 hours that Donald Trump has
had first he was named as an unindicted
co-conspirator last night now he is in a
Fed a state courthouse in Manhattan his
attorneys are in uh facing the Supreme
Court in Washington DC and he the
verdict in his $83 million egene Carroll
defamation suit was just upheld so quite
a whirlwind for him these past 24 hours
um so Brian for those of us that don’t
have the distinguished law degree like
you do can you please explain um what
exactly an unindicted
co-conspirator is and can you even
answer the question why wasn’t Trump
just indicted in these cases so I can
answer the first and give you some
speculations for the second an
unindicted co-conspirators a person uh
that is thought to have been a part of a
scheme or a conspiracy with others who
are indicted but for whatever reason
they have not been indicted and those
reasons could be the prosecutor did not
present that information or those
charges for that individual to the grand
jury and the reasons for that could be
either prosecutorial discretion or I
would think probably the more obvious
and the big one is they know that today
the Supreme Court is deciding about
Donald Trump’s absolute immunity or
immunity arguments and so they could be
waiting to see how that shakes out
before they present information of
Donald Trump in these states where he’s
an unindicted co-conspirator or it could
be that they don’t have the requisite
information or evidence to put forward
that he’s just a piece of the scheme but
not large enough to show that he’s
should
be all right Olivia Brian thank you
both we are also following well another
case so we’re going to head from the
nation’s capital now uh or from New York
City rather to the nation’s capital and
that is where we’re talking about Donald
J Trump once again but this time versus
the United States and it’s against the
backdrop of an already divisive 2024
presidential campaign the US Supreme
Court just heard those arguments about
the former president’s claim of absolute
immunity that outcome could determine
whether Trump faces a federal trial this
year on four felony counts pressed by
special counsel Jack Smith the justices
made it pretty clear though that um well
they’re not writing a ruling for the
ages this case has huge implications for
the presidency for the future of the
presidency for the future of the country
in my view uh I’m not focused on the
Here and Now of this case I’m very
concerned about the
future we have live team coverage
starting us off with senior Washington
correspondent Devon DWI he’s outside the
Supreme Court there where he’s been all
day also our senior reporter kathern
falers and legal contributor Kim wayy uh
and presidential historian Mark
uptigrove so Devon this trial will
directly impact when or if former former
president Trump uh takes or goes to
trial so what do you think where do
justices seem to be leaning here well at
the end of the day Kira it was a good
day for Donald Trump who wants to avoid
that federal election interference trial
certainly before the November election
while the Supreme Court today did signal
almost unanimously uh a rejection of
Donald Trump’s claim of absolute
immunity from any criminal prosecution
um they were also very uncomfortable
with a lower court decision that
greenlighted uh this case immediately
the justic is making clear today kir
that they want to go back to the drawing
board and find a middle ground come up
with some uh as you described in your
intro there a rule for the ages about
deciding when a president’s conduct is
protected and when perhaps it could be
subjected to criminal prosecution like
the rest of us a president is not above
the law but to decide that to hash out
that rule is going to take some time and
time as we know delay uh Works in Donald
Trump’s favor so the Supreme Court which
in this case already has not shown any
indication of moving particularly
quickly will now spend some time writing
this decision we expect it to come out
before the end of June perhaps sooner uh
and in all likelihood based on the
indications today Kira the Supreme Court
will send this back to a lower court to
hash out what portions of the conduct
alleged by Jack Smith around the 20
election by Donald Trump what portions
of that conduct are official perhaps
protected and are maybe private or
official and unprotected so this can go
move forward so that shaking out is
going to take some time and as you’ve
been saying all morning and all
afternoon here if this trial does not go
forward uh it has the potential of being
killed altogether if Donald Trump wins
the White House in November because of
course he’d control the justice
department and would be able to make all
of this go away so a lot on the line but
we do to wait and see how the justices
rule uh when they hand down their
opinion well if that were to happen
Katherine wouldn’t that be a bit of a
get out of jail free card for the former
president it would and I think Devon
teed it up nicely there that Trump and
his legal team they’re really banking on
the November election to make all of
this go away because as Devon noted if
Trump does win the election then he will
just direct his justice department for
example to drop uh the federal cases
whether it be the January 6th one or the
classified documents one now if he loses
then there there is obviously a delay
here but he’s not off the hook so that
is something that Trump has been banking
on since the beginning here so there is
the likelihood that this will all go
away for him but of course only if he
wins the election so then Rick at what
point do all these legal hurdles
actually stop fueling Trump’s campaign
and prop oh we don’t have Rick let me
ask let me take this to you uh Kim then
you know is there a point um that
you know these legal hurdles as we have
watched in the past um have helped Trump
is there a point where they could
actually hurt him depending on the
outcome well it’s it’s conceivable I
think it’s highly unlikely it’s
conceivable that the court will produce
a clean test and there were some
questions today about the January 6
indictment which pieces of it would fall
within this newly minted criminal
immunity test they’re about to make
which pieces would not so it’s possible
that it’ll go they’ll issue a quick
ruling it’ll go to judge chuen they’ll
have a quick round of motions and it
could still be a trial before the
election I think however she rules his
team will say there should be broader
immunity and want to appeal it so you
know it’s always possible but I do think
you know he has the Supreme Court of the
United States in this moment to thank
really for delaying this trial
potentially
uh passed the election and what I think
the justices and the majority it looks
like the conservatives lost sight of is
if they do create criminal immunity what
incentive is that going to give a pre
president Trump in a second term to not
sort of do more things like January 6
that was kind of missing from the debate
today it was very hypothetical
theoretical as jce Kavanaugh kind of
talking in these these these wha ifs
that really blinks the reality of the
moment in the severity of the moment
which I think most Americans really
understand oh Mark what do you think of
these wh ifs and what it means uh for
the future of the presidency I think
Kim’s dead right about the immediate
effect of this uh Kira that that this
delay tactic means we we likely will not
get a decision from the the the court
until after the election and if Donald
Trump is indeed uh elected and he he
beats Joe Biden then he will in all
likelihood uh take his allow his justice
department to to kill the case
altogether but but there are bigger
ramifications here as as the justices on
the court alluded to this morning this
is a huge case in terms of the expansion
of the power of the presidency already
an enormously powerful office but what
does it mean not only to uh uh maybe a
Joe Biden be being reelected or or
Donald Trump being elected but what does
it it it mean for future presidents as
we expand the powers of what is already
the most powerful uh office in the world
making the the the president less
accountable uh which is one of the
Hallmarks of American democracy the
accountability of our elected officials
in particular our president so there is
there there are enormous Stakes here in
this case Kira we’ll monitor it closely
Devin Katherine Kim Mark and to the
ghost of our political director Rick
Klein who wasn’t with us but is always
with us I thank all of you so
much so as the US Supreme Court will
decide whether the president is
absolutely immune from Criminal
prosecution I think we have made it
pretty clear this afternoon how high the
stakes really are here that’s exactly
why 19 retired generals Admirals and
former top service secretaries filed
this brief opposing former president
Donald Trump’s bid for immunity from
prosecution one of those retired
Admirals is that Allen he has made it
clear that this case is far more than
just a former president’s future on the
line American democracy its security and
its credibility both at home and abroad
are also on the line to be clear Admiral
th Allen joins me now not as a
politician but as a military leader
whose greatest concern right now is our
national security good to see you that
I’ve known you more uh more than 20
years and I’ve watched you navigate
military concerns that many times get
wrapped up in political debate but again
you’ve made it clear that your word here
is about the people not the president
why did you take part in this Amicus
brief well you’re absolutely right K my
my intentions are not political they are
military and uh political leaders have a
responsibility to give advice uh to
political leaders and uh our amikas
brief to the court is just that it’s our
advice from a military standpoint uh
pointing out the significant uh risk
National Security uh inherent in
immunity for the president
let’s talk about that absolute immunity
would free a president from all
accountability under our criminal
justice system as a military leader why
does that keep you up at
night well kir it’s an established
standard in the
military uh that individuals have a duty
to disobey an illegal order this has its
roots back in the nberg trials and the
myi massacre during
Vietnam presidential immunity has the
potential to create a danger and a
mighty unnecessary transfer of ethical
moral and legal responsibility from the
president to his subordinates to
determine if an order is legal or not
let me follow up on that word dangerous
why does this threaten our national
security give me a classic
example when you’re conducting military
operations uh what what you want to do
is you want to reduce ambiguity and
create Clarity in the chain of command
so there’s absolutely certainty about
what is to be accomplished and how
that’s how that’s to happen uh if there
is ambiguity regarding the legality of
the order the people receiving the order
have to make a decision about that order
and in the meantime whatever risks that
are posed out there that require
military operations uh are delayed or
damaged because of the uh inability to
create a clear chain of command from the
president down to those executing the
operations so basically it undermines
all the principles of military
leadership
in my view yes because uh the military
is built uh basically on a legal
framework the uniform code of military
Justice uh that requires good order and
discipline to execute the orders of the
president and the military is uh
subordinate to civilian rule this tends
to erode and undermine that because uh
there’s uncertainty about what the
intent of the orders are especially if
they’re placed in a position to try and
determine whether or not they’re
illegal um that’s definitely dangerous
and that’s definitely scary when you
think about it that way and as we all
have our eyes you know locked in on the
Supreme Court today what’s the outcome
that you ultimately want to see
here well given the risk to military
operations and National Security uh I
think we personally would like to see
the ambiguity that could be inserted
into military orders from the president
uh to be removed in Greater Clarity
established and that happens when the
president retains the moral and ethical
responsibility
to give legal orders Admiral F Allen
great to see you appreciate your
time and if you want to hear the entire
back and forth that took place today in
our nation’s Supreme Court ABC News live
will Air the full arguments at midnight
tonight coming up we continue to follow
that bombshell ruling New York’s highest
court overturning the rape conviction of
movie Mogul Harvey Weinstein
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how does billionaire sound sounds good
to me the Moose started chasing a dog
first thing in the morning America this
morning America’s number one early
morning new news on ABC News
live glad you’re streaming with us we do
have breaking news out of New York where
the state’s highest court has overturned
the rape conviction of movie producer
Harvey Weinstein the court finding the
trial judge Prejudice and that Weinstein
and left left women testify about
allegations that were not part of the
case Weinstein was a well-known powerful
man in the entertainment industry but
Pro said he abused that power and he
took advantage of so many aspiring
female actors Weinstein was arrested in
2018 and charged with rape and sexual
assault that in 2020 was found guilty of
both those felonies lawyers representing
Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
here’s what they said there are some
people who are very unpopular in our
society but we still have to apply the
law fairly to them and in this
Courthouse behind us at that trial the
law was not applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein let’s bring in our legal
contributor Brian buckmire once again so
so Brian you know does this take the
landmark hashtag me to movement
backwards I’m not sure if it takes the
movement backwards but definitely the
strategy in which prosecutor is used in
this case and that being you have your
named alleged victims those um who are
associated with the crimes and then you
have uncharged alleged victims who
ranged I think in like the number of
four of five of them who testified in
this trial now that strategy of having
uncorroborated or unindicted uh alleged
victims that’s going to change uh I
think we’ve heard that da Bragg is
intending to repr prosecute this case
his strategy he Us in his first trial is
goingon to be different than the next
one so the Manhattan DA’s office could
decide to retry this right is that a
good
idea that’s a difficult question I I
think when you first for me you have to
talk to all the alleged victims everyone
who testified and if they want this case
to go forward then I think that becomes
a good idea because no one wants to see
these women be re-traumatized by having
to go through this story I think the
only way that you can say this is a good
or bad idea is you let the women lead in
terms of what they want out of this case
because ultimately Weinstein is still
serving time in California but in this
case it’s been overturned
well Weinstein has also been convicted
of sex crimes in California for which
he’s serving prison time as well uh will
today’s ruling impact that in any
way well impact it in the sense that I’m
I’m very sure knowing the offense
attorneys who represent Harvey Weinstein
that they’re going to re-evaluate that
California case based on the reasoning
that overturned the case in New York
while it’s two different states there
are very similar laws when it comes to
what evidence can come in and the amount
of evidence and whether it’s more
prejudicial than probative which is what
the judge leaned on in this case to
overturn his conviction in New York
Brian buckmire we will follow this of
course it was pretty stunning news when
it came uh through today thanks Brian we
are also following all those protests
popping up on campuses across the
country you know what they’re upset
about it’s the Israel Hamas War we’ll
tell you what’s happening at this
[Music]
hour what does it
take to be the most watched newscast in
America an operation to capture Isis
Fighters is this our combat Operation
Center we’re approaching the gate now
militants came in from four or five
different directions operational nuclear
reactor so you have a couple loaded and
ready to
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right now
here made the USA look at your smile
you’re proud of this I love this great
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hi where are you where are you
appreciate you thank you David toet you
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live developing right now new
encampments of anti-war protesters
popping up on campuses from coast to
coast take a look at these dramatic
images out of Boston protesters there
locking arms in a circle around tent set
up on campus of the Northeastern
University in Southern California
similar protest being held on the campus
of UCLA several dozen demonstrators
forming an encampment of tents and then
in Atlanta those protesters clashing
with police on em University’s campus
even reports of getting tased Georgia
State Troopers also making several
arrests let’s bring in our Phil lipop
he’s been following just the growing
amount of protests those protesters at
at Northeastern uh un or is it
Northeastern or Northwestern
Northeastern it was Northeastern yep
okay yeah with circling around with
their arms yeah that was that’s new
today it’s hard to keep all of these in
line because there are new ones that pop
up all the time Karen as you point out
this one uh was at Northeastern that we
can show you they’re they’re holding you
know arm in- arm around this small
encampment right there uh in the middle
of the campus that is just off Boon
Street there um in Boston there are
police uh police officers on site but no
arrests have been made so far it remains
peaceful then K we go out to
Northwestern University in Illinois
dozens of students have set up a tent
encampment there and are calling it a
free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
none of these encampments that we’ve
been showing you over the course of the
week are liberated spaces the schools
don’t see them that way at all uh
Northwestern says the tents are a
violation of school policy actually and
when police moved in to take them down
protesters linked arms and uh and tried
to keep police from doing their jobs at
UCLA we’ve shown you what’s happened at
USC but at UCLA protesters set up an
encampment there even building a wooden
fence uh to surround it hanging signs
calling for the end of the war in Gaza
and as you mentioned at Emory down in
Georgia University says a few dozen
people came on to campus who are not
members of the school community and
that’s not the first time we’ve heard
that they set up tents on the quad and
began to clash with police Cara so
protesters were also actually arrested
at Emerson uh University in Atlanta is
that no wait
oh it was Emerson College in Boston boy
I can’t I can’t it was Emory in Atlanta
and now Emerson in Bost oh my gosh I’m
following you okay good thank you
because it’s hard for me to keep up with
all these live pictures and it’s
changing every hour as as they’ve
started to pop up okay so at Emerson in
Boston there’s actual body cam video of
what happened there yeah this was
obtained uh by ABC News and this
happened overnight now we’re getting to
see it um about 108 protesters were
arrested in the end this was a pretty
big one after this encounter with Boston
police and you can actually hear you
will in one minute an officer tell this
crowd they have every right to protest
and he’s talking in a calm and
respectful voice and he said look it’s
late time stamps about 1:30 in the
morning he said we let you go long after
10: people have to get up and go to work
in the morning uh and he asked no fewer
than five times for them to disperse and
then this
happened we don’t want to escalate to do
anything so again I’ve done a lot of
these always reasonable we don’t want to
arrest anybody trust me we all want to
go home just like we want you to go home
tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
any questions um speak to anyone who
wants to speak to me but just go lat we
we got to open up free free Palestine
free free palese free free
palese yeah car just about as respectful
as any police officer can be in a
situation like that and they just
started you know chanting again and then
the arrests were made about 108 of them
but yeah all across the country Kira
Emerson Emy UCLA USC ivy league as well
Northeastern Northwestern Northeastern
Northwestern all the north the list list
continues Phil thank you so much all
right and thank you for streaming with
us I’m Kira Phillips the news never
stops as you can see and neither do we
we’ve got a lot more stay with
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ABC News live tonight the Supreme Court
takes on the power of the presidency
oral arguments begin in Donald Trump’s
bid for immunity plus tornado severe
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Americans turn to World News Tonight
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the morning there’s a lot going on get
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overnight a dangerous ice storm is
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the Moose started chasing a dog first
thing in the morning America this
morning America’s number one early
morning news on ABC News live we have a
beautiful young woman killed at the very
beginning of her life what happens when
the interrogation helps put the wrong
man in prison I wasn’t nowhere around
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tough question here here is what’s the
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and good afternoon everyone I’m Kira
Phillips right now on ABC News live
Donald Trump a former president and
current presidential candidate facing
the multiple legal battles all centered
around charges of corrupting elections
Trump back at the defense table for his
criminal hush money trial
cross-examination of tabloid publisher
David pecker has just begun the former
national inquir executive facing even
more questions about those efforts to
catch and kill all the unflattering
stories about Trump before the 2016
election let’s bring in our executive
producer John santui along with legal
contributor and trial attorney Brian
buckmire so John David pecker on the
stand once again detailing how the White
House and officials there like hope
Hicks Sarah Huckabee Sanders oh boy all
the blast from the past actually
encouraged him to extend American
media’s contract with Karen McDougall
break it down for us it’s interesting
you know there are some things that even
surprise me to this day that is one
thing I never knew before and obviously
you well know that hope hick and Sarah
Sanders were some of Donald Trump’s
closest AIDS especially in the early
days of the White House but to hear that
David pcker in addition to that was
walking along the colonade by the Rose
Garden Donald Trump still asking him how
Karen McDougall was doing and then those
two AIDS convening a call with him and
David pecker asking for their advice
saying should I extend her contract AKA
should I pay her more to keep her quiet
and they all agreed yes you should it’s
just remarkable and I think part of what
we have to remember here Kira is that
David pecker is witness one we do know
that hope Hicks is expected to be one of
the prosecution’s witnesses many of us
that have covered this story from the
beginning in part thought that was just
related to hop pix’s time as the head of
Donald Trump’s Communications for his
2016 campaign but clearly based off this
testimony we’re proud prosecutors are
leading David pecker it seems there’s a
lot of conversations that were going
into this affair Stormy Daniels and
others that prosecutors want to discuss
in 2017 when of course Donald Trump was
President so does this mean John that we
could see Sarah Huckabee Sanders now a
governor uh possibly take the stand I
mean listen anything is certainly
possible I think the one thing I would
note on that though is that in the start
of jury selection judge Juan Maran went
through a list of nearly different plus
people that could be Witnesses Sarah
hucke Sanders was not one of them but
you know I do think Kira one of the
things that we have to remember is that
that’s just the list of possible
Witnesses it can certainly shrink it
could certainly widen and then that’s
the other thing we have to remember that
right now this is just a presentation by
prosecutors we have no idea how the
defense will respond they obviously
intend to because we know Donald Trump
says famously he’s a counter puncher so
they’re going to put some type of
presentation on could it be Sarah
Sanders could it be other White House
AIDS we know that you know one of the
other names that came up as part of that
presentation by judge Juan Maran two
prospective jurors was that possibly
former white house chief of staff Ryan
prus is another name so you know at the
end of the day it’s really could be a
who’s who of takes the stand Hecker
being one got a lot more to go so Brian
what do you think of
that I think it might open up the
Pandora’s Box if Donald Trump and his
team starts inviting these other people
to come and testify uh typically and and
John is is correct I’m just making sure
my computer’s not mute when I say that
uh but typically a witness list can
expand or or decrease um in in a way but
if Sarah hucke Sanders wasn’t initially
on that witness list it is very unlikely
for her to show up later the main issue
being that if she does and a juror knows
her in some way shape or form they could
have been disqual they could disqualify
themselves in the middle of a trial I
think more likely than not what’s going
to happen happen is uh hope Hicks will
either take the stand as a potential
witness and either corroborate or say
that that conversation was different but
I want to highlight another important
part uh because my understanding is that
pecker is done with the direct
examination in the end I think the
prosecution did a very good job of
saying aren’t you still friends with
Donald Trump do you not still consider
him one wasn’t he a very good uh person
to you when a when a loved one passed
away and that I think will take away a
potential sting of Donald Trump’s
attorneys getting up there and being
like this is about vindication this is
you trying to throw your friend on the
bus you don’t like him you haven’t
spoken to him since 2019 having that
preemptive I’m still friends with him I
think helps the prosecution in this
case so John what do you think overall
how’s this going for
Trump so I think so far I mean it’s it’s
going okay I mean I think one of the
things that you know we have to remember
is that Donald Trump um is really taking
this all in I do think the notes that
we’re getting from our team in court um
is actually remarkable about so much of
his body language K you know he’s
passing notes to people he’s leaning in
um you know he he’s shrugging his
shoulders you know letting out exhales
sometimes uh as people are talking this
is just the beginning I do think this is
actually you know in some ways one of
the hardest Witnesses for Donald Trump
and what I mean by that is that you know
as we’ve been talking about you know he
knows what Michael Cohen’s going to say
he knows what Stormy Daniels is going to
say there are some witnesses here you
know some of the former assistants like
Rona rph and meline westerhouse and
others that we’ve never heard from and
David pcker is in that camp up until
this point he has kept his mouth shut
his story has really been silent for the
last eight plus years so I just think
these people telling all about Donald
Trump telling all their personal
conversations their dealings look we
know Donald Trump values loyalty more
than anything else so anybody up there
even though they’re compelled under oath
to tell the truth is still something
that hurts Donald Trump at his
core John Brian thank you well something
else is still hurting him at the core we
go from New York to that courtroom to
the nation’s capital where it’s Donald J
Trump versus the United States against
the backdrop of an already devisive 2024
presidential campaign the US Supreme
Court just heard those arguments about
the former president’s claim of absolute
immunity the outcome could actually
determine whether Trump faces a federal
trial this year on four felony counts
pressed by special counsel Jack Smith
the Justice is making it clear they know
they are writing a ruling for the ages
this case has huge implications for the
presidency for the future of the
presidency for the future of the country
in my view uh I’m not focused on the
Here and Now of this case I’m very
concerned about the
future we have live team coverage to
talk about the future starting us off
senior Washington correspondent Devon
dwire just outside the Supreme Court our
legal contributor Kim
and also our presidential historian Mark
upd Gro so Devon this is the second case
the justices have taken up involving
Trump this year let’s talk about how
significant this case is compared to the
case we heard what just a few months ago
yeah a few months ago the Supreme Court
here Kira took up whether Donald Trump
could be kicked off the ballot for his
part uh in the January 6th events here
at the United States capital and
unanimously the Supreme Court said
individual states could not do that that
it would be too disruptive a big win for
Donald Trump today a much different case
this one focused very much on the powers
uh and immunities of the institution of
the presidency certainly Donald Trump uh
is front and center and his alleged
crimes related to his efforts to stay in
power after the last election but today
so much of the conversation focused on
the Constitution and what protections a
president has uh it did seem today Kira
that the majority of justices rejected
this idea that a president has
absolutely immunity from any sort of
criminal prosecution but they really
wrestled with where to draw the line
what’s the test for deciding what sorts
of things the president do does in an
office are immune from prosecution and
what sorts of things are not we saw
heard Myriad different takes on that but
so much is on the line not just for
Donald Trump but for the future of this
country uh going forward and it was
clear from Brett Cavanaugh as you heard
in that sound bite but also Neil Gorsuch
that the justices are really going to
want to take their time and something
comprehensive thoughtful uh maybe it
gives some leeway to Donald Trump in in
a sense giving him a win that this trial
that’s really in front of us could get
delayed but they want to get it right so
that future presidents would know what
the boundaries are
Kira boundaries something Trump uh does
not know very much about Kim will the
justices carve out any kind of immunity
in the criminal
context for sure H even the government
conceded uh so somewhat surprisingly
frankly that anything that’s articulated
in Article 2 like the pardon power the
par the power to make appointments the
power to veto uh that that should be
immunized um but it’s a really different
thing from hypothesizing about Congress
passing a new law infringing on those
powers and basically saying no
indictments um and that’s a line I think
that wasn’t really clearly articulated
by the government and could have really
been tightened up and so these
concessions I think frankly will produce
a new test and what will happen we’ll go
back to J judge chuin to slice and dice
the January 6 indictment to decide which
pieces are okay and which pieces are not
okay and uh presumably she will rule in
part against Donald Trump’s uh lawyers
and that’ll be appealed so for sure this
is I think highly unlikely to go to
trial before November and that is
absolutely a win particularly given that
polls show that uh you know a felony
conviction could sway even some of his
most staunch supporters against actually
pulling the lever in The Ballot Box in
November for Donald Trump wow that would
be interesting um uh indeed and then
just listening to the justices on those
recordings Mark and talking about the
huge implications that they realize the
huge implications let’s talk about what
those could be and also just the
significance of the timing of this case
with less than six months until the
November election well car there’s the
short term and there’s longterm
shortterm uh again as as Kim suggested
this this is a big win for Donald Trump
as it is another example of how delaying
things weighs in his favor and we will
we may not get a verdict in this case
until after the election if we get one
at all if Trump becomes our next
president he’s likely to to to uh uh
ensure that this case doesn’t go forward
altogether so uh there that’s the the
the the short term uh the longer term is
the justices are absolutely right to be
concerned with the precedent that this
sets how it changes things uh to make
things more uh to make the the position
of of President far more powerful so
there are major long-term ramifications
here and uh it’s good that the Justice
are justices are thinking in those terms
Kira thank you all so much appreciate
each and every one of
you so as the US Supreme Court will
decide whether the president is
absolutely immune from Criminal
prosecution I think we have made made it
pretty clear this afternoon how high the
stakes really are here that’s exactly
why 19 retired generals Admirals and
former top service secretaries filed
this brief opposing former president
Donald Trump’s bid for immunity from
prosecution one of those retired
Admirals is that Allen he has made it
clear that this case is far more than
just a former president’s future on the
line American democracy its security and
its credibility both at home and abroad
are also on the line to be clear Admiral
th Allen joins me now not as a
politician but as a military leader
whose greatest concern right now is our
national security good to see you that
I’ve known you more uh more than 20
years and I’ve watched you navigate
military concerns that many times get
wrapped up in political debate but again
you’ve made it clear that your worry
here is about the people not the
president why did you take part in this
Amicus
brief well you’re absolutely right Cara
my my intentions are not political they
are military and uh political leaders
have a responsibility to give advice uh
to political leaders and uh our amikas
brief to the court is just that it’s our
advice from a military standpoint uh
pointing out the significant uh risk to
National Security uh inherent in
immunity for the president let’s talk
about that absolute immunity would free
a president from all accountability
under our criminal justice system as a
military leader
why does that keep you up at
night well Kira it’s an established
standard in the
military uh that individuals have a duty
to disobey an illegal order this has its
roots back in the nerenberg trials and
the myi massacre during Vietnam a
presidential immunity has the potential
to create a dangerous and a mighty
unnecessary transfer of ethical moral
and legal responsibility from the
president to his subordinates to
determine if an order is legal or not
let me follow up on that word dangerous
why does this threaten our national
security give me a classic
example when you’re conducting military
operations uh what what you want to do
is you want to reduce ambiguity and
create Clarity in the chain of command
so there’s absolutely certainty about
what is to be accomplished and how
that’s how that’s to happen uh if there
is ambiguity regarding the legality of
the order the people receiving the order
have to make a decision about that order
and in the meantime whatever risks that
are posed out there that require
military operations uh are you delayed
or damage because of the uh inability uh
to create a clear chain of command from
the president down to those executing
the operations so basically it
undermines all the principles of
military
leadership in my view yes because uh the
military is built uh basically on a
legal framework the uniform code of
military Justice uh that requires good
order and discipline to execute the
orders of the president and the military
is a subordinate to civilian rule this T
erode and undermine that because uh
there’s uncertainty about what the
intent of the orders are especially if
they’re placed in a position to try and
determine whether or not they’re
illegal um that’s definitely dangerous
and that’s definitely scary when you
think about it that way and as we all
have our eyes you know locked in on the
Supreme Court today what’s the outcome
that you ultimately want to see here
well given the risk to military
operations and National Security uh I
think we personally would like to see
the ambiguity that could be inserted
into military orders from the president
uh to be removed in Greater Clarity
established and that happens when the
president retains the moral and ethical
responsibility to give legal
orders Admiral F Allen great to see you
appreciate your
time and if you want to hear the entire
back and forth that took place today in
our nation’s Supreme Court ABC News live
will Air the full arguments at midnight
tonight coming up we continue to follow
that bombshell ruling New York’s highest
court overturning the rape conviction of
movie Mogul Harvey
[Music]
Weinstein Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about you
John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special going start singing by the
way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC tonight the Supreme Court takes on
the power of the presidency oral
arguments begin in Donald Trump’s big
bid for immunity plus tornado severe
weather the 10 states in the path more
Americans turn to World News Tonight
with David mure the most watched
newscast on
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
television give it to me why do so many
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News this is start here to in the know
and get a different take on the day’s
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daily first listen now that’s a part of
the story I bet you didn’t see coming
wherever you get your podcasts start
here first thing in the morning there’s
a lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
between how does billionaire sound
sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
America this morning America’s number
one early morning news on ABC News live
[Music]
glad you’re streaming with us we do have
breaking news out of New York where the
state’s highest court has overturned the
rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
Weinstein the court finding the trial
judge Prejudice and that Weinstein and
Le left women testify about allegations
that were not part of the case Weinstein
was a well-known powerful man in the
entertainment industry but prosecutors
said he abused that power and he took
advantage of so many aspiring female
actors Weinstein was arrested in 2018
and charged with rape and sexual assault
that in 2020 was found guilty of both
those felonies lawyers representing
Weinstein spoke about today’s ruling
here’s what they said there are some
people who are very unpopular in our
society but we still have to apply the
law fairly to them and in this
Courthouse behind us at that trial the
law was not applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein
let’s bring in our legal contributor
Brian buckmire once again so so Brian
you know does this take the landmark
hash me to movement
backwards I’m not sure if it takes the
movement backwards but definitely the
strategy in which prosecutors is used in
this case and that being you have your
named alleged victims those um who are
associated with the crimes and then you
have uncharged alleged victims who
ranged I think in like the number of
four or five of them who testified in
this trial now that strategy of having
uncorroborated or unindicted uh alleged
victims that’s going to change uh I
think we’ve heard that da Bragg is
intending to repr prosecute this case
his strategy they use in his first trial
is GNA be different than the next
one so the Manhattan DA’s office could
decide to retry this right is that a
good
idea that’s a difficult question I I
think when you first for me you have to
talk to all the alleged victims everyone
who testified and if they want this case
to go forward then I think that becomes
a good idea because no one wants to see
these women be re-traumatized by having
to go through this story I think the
only way that you can say this is a good
or bad idea is you let the women lead in
terms of what they want out of this case
because ultimately Weinstein is still
serving time in California but in this
case it’s been
overturned well Weinstein has also been
convicted of sex crimes in California
for which he’s serving prison time as
well uh well today’s ruling impact that
in any
way we impact it in the sense that I’m
I’m very sure knowing the offense
attorneys who represent Harvey Weinstein
that they’re going to re-evaluate that
California case based on the reasoning
that overturned the case in New York
while it’s two different states there
are very similar laws when it comes to
what evidence can come in and the amount
of evidence and whether it’s more
prejudicial than probative which is what
the judge leaned on in this case to
overturn his conviction in New York
Brian buckmire we will follow this of
course it was pretty stunning news when
it came uh through today thanks Brian we
are also following all those protests
popping up on campuses across the
country you know what they’re upset
about it’s the Israel Hamas War we’ll
tell you what’s happening at this
hour Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special start singing by the way
I’m a cowboy yeah thank you Michael
Michael stran John Von Joy I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on get another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning
what’s happening today escalating
tensions in the Middle East what people
are talking about the migrant crisis
fast straightforward with some fun in
between how does billionaire sound
sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
America this morning America’s number
one early morning news on ABC News
live ABC News America’s number one news
source reporting from Miami Florida I’m
Victor okendo wherever the story is
we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
live developing right now new
encampments of anti-war protesters
popping up on campuses from coast to
coast take a look at these dramatic
images out of Boston protesters there
locking arms in a circle around tents
set up on campus of the Northeastern
University in Southern California
similar protest being held on the campus
of UCLA several dozen demonstrators
forming an encampment of tents and then
in Atlanta those protesters clashing
with police on Emery University’s campus
even reports of getting tased George
Estate Troopers also making several
arrests let’s bring in our Phil lipof
he’s been following just the growing
amount of protests those protesters at
at Northeastern uh un or is it
Northeastern or Northwestern
Northeastern it was Northeastern yep
okay yeah with circling around with
their arms yeah that was that’s new
today it’s hard to keep all of these uh
in line because there are new ones that
pop up all the time Kieran as you point
out this one uh was at Northeastern that
we can show you they’re they’re holding
you know arm in arm around this small
encampment right there uh in the middle
of the campus that is just off Boon
Street there um in Boston there are
police uh police officers on site but no
arrests have been made so far it remains
peaceful then K we go out to
Northwestern University in Illinois
dozens of students have set up a tent
encampment there and are calling it a
free Gaza liberated Zone the problem is
none of these encampments that we’ve
been showing you over the course of the
week are liberated spaces the schools
don’t see them that way at all uh
Northwestern says the tents are a
violation of school policy actually and
when police moved in to take them down
protesters linked arms and uh and and
tried to keep police from doing their
jobs at UCLA we’ve shown you what’s
happened at USC but at UCLA protesters
set up an encampment there even building
a wooden fence uh to surround it hanging
signs calling for the end of the war in
Gaza and as you mentioned at Emory down
in Georgia University says a few dozen
people came on to campus who are not
members of the school community and
that’s not the first time we’ve heard
that they set up tents on the quad and
began to clash with police Cara so
protesters were also actually arrested
at Emerson uh University in Atlanta is
that no wait oh it was Emerson College
in Boston boy I can’t I can’t keep it
was
in Atlanta and now Emerson in Boston oh
my gosh I’m following you okay good
thank you because it’s hard for me to
keep up with all these live pictures and
it’s changing every hour as as they’ve
started to pop up okay so at Emerson in
Boston there’s actual body cam video of
what happened there yeah this was
obtained uh by ABC News and this
happened overnight now we’re getting to
see it um about 108 protesters were
arrested in the end this was a pretty
big one after this encounter with Boston
police and you can actually hear you
will in one minute an officer tell this
crowd they have every right to protest
and he’s talking in a calm and
respectful voice and he said look it’s
late time stamps about 1:30 in the
morning he said we let you go long after
10: people have to get up and go to work
in the morning uh and he asked no fewer
than five times for them to disperse and
then this
happened we don’t want to escalate to do
anything so again I’ve done a lot of
these Ro reasonable we don’t want to
arrest any trust me we all want to go
home just like we want you to go home
tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
any questions um speak to anyone who
wants to speak to me but just go lat we
we got to open up free free Palestine
free free
Palestine yeah car just about as
respectful as any police officer can be
in a situation like that and they just
started you know chanting again and then
the arrests were made about 108 of them
but yeah all across the country Kira
Emerson Emery UCLA USC ivy league as
well Northeastern Northwestern
Northeastern Northwestern all the north
list list continues Phil thank you so
much right and thank you for streaming
with us I’m Kira Phillips the news never
stops as you can see and neither do we
we’ve got a lot more stay with
[Music]
us what does it take to be the most
watched newscast in America
an operation to capture Isis Fighters
This our combat Operation Center we’re
approaching the gate now militants came
in from four or five different
directions operational nuclear reactor
so you have a couple loaded and ready to
[Music]
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right
here made the USA look at your smile
you’re proud of this I love this great
work
hi where are you where are you
appreciate thank you David good to meet
you is
David yes yes I’m David M I know you are
you every
night ABC’s World News Tonight with
David mure is America’s most watched
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[Music]
and hello everyone I’m Kiera Phillips
some of the top headlines we’re watching
for you at the top of the hour here on
ABC News live Donald Trump former
president and presumptive Republican
nominee facing multiple legal battles
all centered around charges of
corrupting elections he is back at the
defense table for his criminal hush
money trial cross-examination of tabloid
publisher David pecker has just begun
the former National inquire executive
facing even more questions about all
those efforts to catch and kill all un
flattering stories about Trump before
the 2016 election and this is all
happening on a historic and
unprecedented day for the United States
Supreme Court as well the highest court
in the land hearing arguments over
presidential immunity and whether former
president Trump can be prosecuted for
his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020
election while he was still in office if
you want to hear the entire back and
forth that took place today on Nation
Supreme Court ABC News live will Air the
full arguments at midnight tonight also
new encampment of anti-war protesters
popping up on campuses from coast to
coast now we’ve got these images out of
Boston where protesters are locking arms
in a circle around those tents set up on
campus at Northeastern University then
in Atlanta protesters clashing with
police on Emery University’s campus even
reports of getting tazed Georgia State
Troopers also making several arrests
there then back in Southern California
another protest held this time on the
campus of UCLA several dozen
demonstrators forming an encampment of
tents there and then at USC well it
announced it’s cancelling its main
commencement ceremony now that was
scheduled for next month we’re all
seeing the repercussions of these
protests now well it’s a moment of
triumph over tragedy new video showing
the first cargo ship passing through a
temporary water channel in the Port of
Baltimore it’s the first major vessel
traveling through since last month’s
devastating bridge collapse in the
inaugural Voyager BSA 94 at passed
through debris as it exited the 35- Ft
Channel this morning on its way to
Canada so glad you’re streaming with us
I’m Kira Phillips ABC News live is here
for you anytime with the latest context
news and Analysis you can also find us
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abcnews.com the news never stops more
gma3 right
now what you need to know right now on
GMA 3 the Arizona house votes to repeal
a controversial Civil War era abortion
ban after three Republicans cross party
lines to join Democrats to overturn it
former president Donald Trump back in
New York criminal court now as an
unindicted co-conspirator in the alleged
fake electors case in Arizona and
Michigan as the Supreme Court takes up
his claim of presidential immunity Pro
Palestinian protests Cascade across
American college campuses from New York
City to Texas to California our team
with the gma3 Deep dive on what’s at
stake and we’ll meet the NCAA star
shining of the college baseball diamond
why he stands out among D1
competitors and decades after Congress
ordered repatriation of sacred objects
to Native Americans where things stand
one University going through the
painstaking process
plus turning your shower routine into a
spa worthy experience Sarah egenberger
is here with what you need to know my TB
usually appears as a small cavitary
lesion is that
a right we need to get him up to CT as
soon as possible this is definitely not
TB also it’s one of the longest running
most successful medical shows in network
history Gray’s Anatomy star Kim Raver
here taking us inside the operating room
in the hit Show’s 20th season and the
Motor City is revving up for the NFL
draft as the hottest prospects get ready
to see their dreams and hard work turn
into
reality now from Time Square Eva Pilgrim
and DeMarco Morgan with Dr Jen Ashton
and what you need to
know yes I got you good afternoon
everybody and thanks for joining us on
this baby Friday can you tell I’m tired
no no no that’s good in you there it’s
good to have you with us folks we
appreciate it and Dr Darion is in good
afternoon Dr Jen I was good to see you
man you look so happy and so bright I
got a lot of sleep last night I feel
great how did you good more than I did
not I’m jealous sorry to hear that um I
didn’t realize this when I brought Candy
out to the set today but we’re actually
going to be talking about sugar we are I
didn’t even think of that either yeah so
School meals around the country have now
um some standards about how much sugar
can be in those meals definitely not SK
those are delicious um but this is
actually I think a good thing it’s a
push in the right direction making
healthier meals for children uh new
guidelines from the Department of
Agriculture and I just want to show you
what they are so the goal is just
basically changing these lunches and
breakfasts to making them better the
goal by 2025 to 2026 is to restrict high
sugar foods like cereal yogurt and
flavored milk and then beyond that by
2027 they want to limit added sugar by
no more than 10% or decreasing it by 10%
of the weekly goal of calories and also
by 15% in lunches this is so important
because an estimated one out of five
children live with obesity and to be
honest the statistics are even more
concerning when you look at the studies
overall those children that are obese in
the ages of 10 to 13 are more than 80%
likely to be obese when they’re becoming
an adult so it’s not about just now but
also avoiding the complications in the
future all right doc thank you very much
we appreciate it let’s check it out with
ABC’s M wi in Washington with a look at
your latest headlines good to see you my
friend good to see you DeMarco good
afternoon and we begin with the breaking
news about Hollywood’s Harvey Weinstein
a New York appeals court overturning the
former movie mogul’s 2020 conviction on
rape charges the state’s High Court
finding the judge in the landmark me too
trial in New York may have ruled
improperly when he let women testify
about allegations that were not a part
of the case because Weinstein is already
convicted in California he will not be
released but instead transferred to the
custody of prison authorities in
California Arizona coming one step
closer to repealing a near total Civil
War ban on abortion written into law
before it was a state and before women
had the right to vote three Republicans
joining Democrats to repeal that
legislation in the house now it needs to
clear the state senate lawmakers back in
session next week former president Trump
is back in a New York City courtroom in
his hush money criminal trial and he’s
now named an unindicted co-conspirator
in alleged election fraud cases in
Arizona and Michigan and alleged fake
elector schemes to keep Trump in office
against the will of the voters some top
Trump allies charged in Arizona this as
the US Supreme Court considers the
former presidents claims that he cannot
be prosecuted over alleged attempts to
overturn the election because of quote
presidential immunity Trump denies all
wrongdoing and now the new economic
numbers just out the Commerce Department
reporting us growth slowed sharply in
the last quarter growing at an
annualized rate of
1.6% many analysts were hoping for some
weakening to cool inflation but not too
much now to our Ginger Z with your
weather we’ve got a 4-day long outbreak
that’s coming at us severe weatherwise
tonight it looks like big hail in parts
of Kansas down through Texas Western
Oklahoma too into the Panhandle there
and then the tornado hail threat moves
East and includes damaging winds all the
way down to Dallas Kansas City needs to
be on the out as does much of
Southwestern Iowa so a big couple of
days and it also keeps going in very
similar areas through the
weekend thank you Ginger and thousands
of football fans are descending on the
Motor City ahead of tonight’s NFL draft
dreams are about to come true in Detroit
for some top prospects and their teams
you can catch it all right here tonight
on ABC and ESPN at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and
I cannot wait to see the reactions on
their faces when they get this you know
not just the reaction but the outfits
the suits the fashion will be high they
got their M and their daddies and every
you know it we’re all watching Em thank
you very much we appreciate it there’s
much more ahead here on gma3 on this
Thursday inside the pro Palestinian
protest growing on American college
campuses our team with the Deep dive
coming up and later you’re going to love
this kid right here why Parker bird is
making history on the college baseball
timing and inspiring and so many others
we’re glad you’re watching gma3 come on
back
[Music]
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there’s a lot going on got another
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started chasing a dog first thing in the
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News live tonight the Supreme Court
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oral arguments begin in Donald Trump’s
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newscast on
television welcome back to gma3 Pro
Palestinian protest erupting on college
campuses across the country from USC to
the University of Texas at Austin and
right here in New York City at Columbia
University some of the protests leading
to clashes with police as students
demand the universities divest funds
from companies profiting from Israeli
military operations while protesters
push for ceasefire in Gaza arguing they
have a right to free speech many Jewish
students are saying they feel unsafe
with critics calling the protest
anti-semitic joining us now is attorney
and ABC News contributor Brian buckmire
and from Columbia University ABC’s
Stephanie Ramos Stephanie let’s start
with you just set the scene for us there
what’s happening on campus at Colombia
today well Eva right now it is calm
outside Columbia University and on the
campus as well most of the protests here
have been peaceful according to
administrators it’s also what we’ve
witnessed there have been some
individuals especially last week that
were arrested for trespassing but we
heard from the New York city mayor on
this just a few days ago uh and NYPD
officials saying that a majority of the
individuals causing the chaos causing
violence and uh spewing rhetoric have
been unaffiliated with the university I
can tell you the last couple of nights
here at Columbia University Pro
Palestinian student demonstrators Jewish
and non-jewish alike have come together
for a Sater dinner to celebrate the the
Jewish holiday of Passover many of them
saying they’re not leaving they’re
staying here on the west lawn at the
encampment so that their voices are
heard so that they can get their message
across all while the university is
expecting them to come up with a plan to
disperse by tomorrow so Brian do
protesters have a First Amendment right
to protest on school grounds and know
the president of K University is under
Fire right now for calling police in
last week to break up some of those
student protest encampments uh Stephanie
just mentioned more than 100 arrests
there well well Dem Marco the important
distinction is who are those protesters
if we’re talking about people who are
University students they have a
different right they have the ability to
kind of argue under the first amendment
of time Manner and place to have their
voice heard but if you’re a distractor
or an agitator and even though I think
Stephanie said many of the people in law
enforcement is specifically saying many
of the people who have been arrested are
not students um those people have
different rights because they could be
arrested for trespassing and they have
different rights when it comes to going
onto a private university and trying to
use their voice so you have to make the
distinction as to who is making uh the
comments and where and also what they’re
saying Stephanie house Speaker Mike
Johnson visited Colombia yesterday what
can you tell us about his
visit yeah so the speaker of the house
was here he met with Jewish students uh
many uh many of which I spoke with
afterwards and they told me that they
shared with the speaker just instances
instances of them being harassed and
intimidated the last couple of weeks
just sharing what they’ve seen the last
couple of weeks here on campus house
Speaker Mike Johnson then spoke with
reporters and press and and some other
students who had gathered to see him uh
he was interrupted he was booed but he
called on the school’s President to
resign he also said that all all and any
anti-semitic uh incidents need to stop
now we spoke with student demonstrators
who who were there who were listening
and and they said they would have appre
appreciated some time with him as well
to share with him why they’re doing what
they’re doing and that they stand with
Gaza and that they just want their
voices heard so Brian if protesters are
arrested what type of legal troubles are
they
facing again DeMarco depends on who that
protester is if this is a student for
example at Columbia University who is on
that lawn as Stephanie is describing and
an officer gives him a lawful order to
leave and they do not in New York that
could be what’s called obstruction of
governmental Administration as well as
resisting arrest those are a mises but
if we start talking about the harassment
and intimidation of some of those Jewish
students New York and many other states
have hate crime statutes so to Target
someone based on their race religion
Creed or identifiable um entity all
right that can have them facing hate
crime charges and we don’t want to see a
situation where people are targeted uh
regardless of their background of
religion and so that could have more
serious uh penalties it’s an ongoing
conversation that we’re going to be
having for sure Stephanie Romas Brian
buckmire thank you both for being with
us today
and when we come back he’s making
history at home plate yeah competing at
the college level is something the star
player always dreamed of how it all came
true when gma3
continues what does it take to be the
most watched newscast in
America an operation to capture Isis
fighter is this our combat Operation
Center we’re approaching the gate now
militants came in from four or five
different directions operational nuclear
reactor so you have a couple loaded and
ready to
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a car how
important is this label right here made
the USA look at your smile you’re proud
of this I love it great
work
hi where are you where are you
appreciate you thank you D good to meet
you it’s SM David
David yes yes I’m David M I know who you
are watch you every
night ABC’s World News Tonight with
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ABC News this is start here to be in the
know and get a different take on the
day’s top stories start here now that’s
a part of the story I bet you didn’t see
coming make it your daily first listen
wherever you get your podcasts Sunday
night people think they really know you
what do you think is the biggest
misconception about
you John Bon jie I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
pictures is going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy yeah thank you
Micha Michael Strahan John bonji I’m a
rock and roll star I’m not a saint I’m
John bonjovi halfway there Sunday night
on
ABC first thing in the morning there’s a
lot going on got another Avalanche
warning that’s up to catch you up with
what happened overnight a dangerous ice
storm is impacting the morning commute
what’s happening today escalating
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fast straightforward with some fun in
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sounds good to me the Moose started
chasing a dog first thing in the morning
America this morning America’s number
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live reporting from marago I’m Rachel
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live B four outside the picture of
resilience and fight Parker bird will
receive an ovation he’s got a pinch
Runner and an Embrace with his head
coach Cliff Godwin how cool I am so
excited about this guy welcome back to
gma3 that was the history making debut
of Parker bird one of the very few NCAA
division one baseball players to play in
a game with a prosthetic leg and joining
us here with his inspiring story as East
Carolina University Pirates infielder
and pitcher Parker Bird
Parker thanks for having me on today I’m
excited this was you know when you play
baseball as a little boy this was
something you had to have dreamed of
that opportunity to play at the
Collegiate level getting to do this now
after everything you’ve been through
what was that like you know it’s awesome
uh just all the hard work that I put in
after my accident for the past year and
a half just to get back out on the field
to show people that uh just because
tragedy hits doesn’t mean your life’s
over and think it’s just testing my
family and all the pts and really
everybody has helped me along the way
the doctors teammates coaches and
everybody just kept believing in me so I
think it’s just a testament of them and
this all happened as a result of a tubin
accident that’s right you’ve had 22
surgeries since then did you ever think
you were about to lose your life I you
came close to death yeah yeah well um
initially I did so uh with that accident
I think my blood pressure was really low
60 over 30 and that’s they gave me every
blood product they had on the helicopter
and um but after once they got the
bleeding to stop it was kind of roller
coaster events with the losing my leg
and first we thought I was going to be
able to keep it and everything was going
to be fine just get back on the field
with some extensive rehab and then uh
about 10 days or so my right foot became
very pale and cold and they told me hey
you have two options either amputate or
die basically and uh told him he let’s
amputate and keep going with life and uh
told him the leg doesn’t Define me that
uh there’s much more to life in baseball
and uh here I am today still playing it
so so is it your faith that keeps you
going 100% yeah I think uh my family
always we’re very gr uh grounded in our
faith and uh we always have been and
just believing in him that his plan’s
bigger than ours and uh it’s hard to
believe uh see that when you’re going
through it but on the outside of it now
I just everything works out for good so
many people look at you and your story
and what you’ve been able to accomplish
and they’re so inspired by it hear
people inspired by what you’ve been able
to do what’s that like you know that’s
really my goal in life now is just to
inspire others and to show them that hey
your life’s not over um that his plan is
bigger than ours and never thought I’d
be put in the position to show people
that but um he has a way of working his
way so um it’s really cool just to see
UT kids at games now that are Inspire my
my story not just amputees but really
just families that are of amput and just
people that are going through things
whether that being divorce or not
getting to a college whatever it is and
uh just being an inspiration of them and
showing them that hey you can keep going
in life with hard work is pretty cool
and folks in this building I mean she’s
right you’ve inspired so many people
this is the first time I’ve been here
for a year we get stars all the time I
had to meet you before the show I had to
find your dressing room and embrace and
hug this guy because you’re such an
inspiration keep doing what you’re doing
man we’re so proud of you yes sir thank
you thank you for sharing your story
with us and best of luck to you and and
your ECU Pirates
season just ahead here on gma3 Dr Darion
with a look at your prescription for
wellness plus the beauty and power of
water we’re stepping up your daily
shower into a spa day come on back one
more time for Park
[Applause]
[Music]
everybody first thing in the morning
there’s a lot going on get another
Avalanche warning that’s up to catch you
up with what happened overnight a
dangerous ice storm is impacting the
morning commute what’s happening today
escalating tensions in the Middle East
what people are talking about the
migrant crisis fast straightforward with
some fun in between how does billionaire
sound sounds good to me the Moose
started chasing a dog first thing in the
morning America this morning America’s
number one early morning news on ABC
News
live Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think is the
biggest misconception about you
John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to fade the all new
event special going start singing by the
way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC why do so many people start their
day here from ABC News this is start
here to be in the know and get a
different take on the day’s top stories
a lot of news today so let’s get into it
listen now to the Daily News podcast
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listen now that’s a part of the story I
bet you didn’t see coming wherever you
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beautiful young woman killed at the very
beginning of her life what happens when
the interrogation helps put the wrong
man in prison I wasn’t nowhere around
promise to God until years later when
the real killer steps into the box the
tough question here is what’s the chance
your D will match that Al
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on
EBC oh Dr Darion this is a subject I
know my dear friend Demarco cares a lot
about he’s very curious about
intermittent fasting yes here we go this
new study DeMarco uh not to get you
upset but it essentially ask the
question is the benefit of intermittent
fasting in the Restriction of time or is
it in the calories so this is a smaller
study done from the uh annals of
internal medicine a large peerreview
journal and they got a small group of
people and they separated them into two
groups they ate the same amount of
calories but one group basically
intermittently fast or restricted their
time and the result was that there was
no difference and the change in weight
and it tells us that it’s more likely
not associated to the time but more
likely associated to what you’re eating
in that specific time but it doesn’t
discount the benefits of intermittent
fasting which have still been theorized
the theory is that it helps with your
insulin insensitivity which can help
reduce your risk of type two diabetes
and so on and so forth but at the end of
the day if you are intimately fasting
it’s not just about the time when you
were eating you want to make sure you’re
eating high quality foods see I thought
you could eat whatever you wanted to eat
in that small window okay I think that
that’s what everyone does and I think
that there are benefits when you’re
stopping eating earlier before bed for
example but at this is a smaller study
but we’ll have to see larger studies to
see if it proves true but if you’re
going to eat make sure you eat healthy
come on man and what you’re eating
matters exactly is you can’t just Gorge
yourself in inside those time ranges all
right the doctor has spoken I’m sorry
thank you we’re back in a moment stay
with us
[Music]
[Music]
this is the first time you are sitting
down like this to tell your story
Britney are you ready you’ve been told
to go through your bag and you felt felt
the cartridge what were you thinking
that moment when you felt that my life
is over right here you’ve just been told
you’re going to be 9 years in one of the
worst pris
Russia Britney Griner Robin Roberts
prisoner in Russia Wednesday night May
1st on ABC Sunday night people think
they really know you what do you think
of the biggest misconception about you
John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonjovi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC why do so many people start their
day here from ABC News this is star here
to be in the know and get a different
take on the day’s top stories a lot of
news today so let’s get into it listen
now to the Daily News podcast honored
with four Edward R Murrow Awards and see
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ABC News make it your daily first listen
now that’s a part of the story I bet you
didn’t see coming wherever you get your
podcasts start here first thing in the
morning there’s a lot going on get
another Avalanche warning that’s up to
catch you up with what happened
overnight a dangerous ice storm is
impacting the morning commute what’s
happening today escalating tensions in
the Middle East what people are talking
about the migrant crisis fast
straightforward with some fun in between
how does billionaire sound sounds good
to me the Moose started chasing a dog
first thing in the morning America this
morning America’s number one early
morning news on ABC News
live welcome back to G3 what you need to
know take a look at the new collectible
Barbie inspiring women doll honoring the
one and only Christy amaguchi she was
the country’s first Asian-American woman
to win an Olympic gold medal and figure
skating Mattel has information on this
new doll on their website nice
representation matters we say it all the
time I was obsessed with her as a little
girl oh so cool Dr daran’s here and you
are answering one of our medical
questions here it is when should I be
concerned about taking multiple
prescription medications and how can I
make sure I’m taking all my meds
correctly that’s such an important
question being compliant or taking your
medications on time and when you should
is really really important so there are
some things that I think patients have
taught me that I think are incredible
number one obviously things like pill
stack or excuse me uh pill bottle Savers
whatever you call these things I forget
what you call these things the
containers pill containers and so one t
one tactic that people use is habit
stacking so many people forget when to
take their medications and so when you
have it stack you attach whatever you
want to do with something you commonly
do so for for example everyone brushes
their teeth in the morning hopefully so
you want to make sure that your pills
stay close to that so when you’re
brushing your teeth you have your
medications with you or when you’re
making your coffee another thing that I
think patients do that is really helpful
is when they have their medication list
it doesn’t have to be as nice as this
but even writing it down on a piece of
paper and then keeping it in a folder or
keeping it in a plastic protector is
really helpful when patients come in
with that and Mye when you have this
much medication to take I didn’t realize
people take this many pills and as
during the break we were talking an
estimated one out of five adults above
the age of 40 take five medications or
more 40 is not that old it’s not that
old at all which is which is a separate
problem that we should discuss when
you’re doing something called medication
reconciliation going through your meds
to make sure you’re not taking too many
or having redundant meds but then making
sure that you bring your meds with you
in the emergency room I would love for
my patients to bring their medications
with them because I go through them and
it helps me to understand what might be
causing the symptoms and also just in
general you should always review your
medications at least once a year with
your doctor wow yeah all right doc thank
you very much we appreciate it we are
learning of course trying to be
compliant trying to take your
medications on time is really really
important that is so important folks we
would love to hear from you so hit us up
on Instagram with all of your medical
questions for our medical unit at ABC
gma3 when we come back the emotional and
decades long effort to get sacred
objects back to the Native American
communities they were taken from and
later here upgrading your shower routine
we’ve got what you need to know to make
your shower Sparkle back in a day oh
can’t
wait we have a beautiful young woman
killed at the very beginning of her life
what happens when the interrogation
helps put the wrong man in prison I
wasn’t nowhere around probably to God
until years later when the real killer
steps into the box the tough question
here is what’s the chance your D will
match that
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my KN oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC get
ready America every Friday the hottest
Trends Styles and must have what’s the
right stuff to buy right now I really
love that it’s time to buy the right
stuff yes and save big time too The
Right Stuff Fridays on GMA you’re going
to love it wherever news breaks it’s so
important to always remember that lives
are changed getting you behind the
stories as they happen ABC News live
Prime we’ll take you there streaming
free on ABC News live Donald Trump after
day three wraps in his first ever
criminal trial of a former president
various colleges all over the country
and Beyond colleges because it’s
happening in other areas too you see
what’s happening on the front having to
do with Palestine and Israel and
protests and hate anger Biden is sending
an absolutely horrible message horrible
horrible message he has no idea how to
message he can’t speak he can’t put two
sentences together he doesn’t know what
to do this is not our president this is
somebody that shouldn’t be doing what
he’s doing because you can’t do it you
can’t do it well we’re having protests
all over he was talking about
Charlottesville Charlottesville was a
little peanut and it was nothing
compared and the hate wasn’t the kind of
hate that you have here this is
tremendous hate and we have a man that
can’t talk about it because he doesn’t
understand it he doesn’t understand
what’s going on with our country he
doesn’t understand that all over the
world were’re being laugh at as a
country because of him and his
administration and today we had I hear
because I was forced to be here and I’m
glad I was because it was a very
interesting day in a certain way but the
US Supreme Court had a uh Monumental
hearing on immunity and the immunity
having to do with uh presidential
immunity and I think it was made clear I
hope it was made clear that a president
has to have Community you don’t have a
president or at most you can say it
would be a ceremonial president that’s
not what the founders had in mind
they’re not talking about ceremonial we
want presidents that can get things done
and bring people together so I heard the
meeting was uh quite amazing quite
amazing and the justices were on their
game so uh let’s see how that all turns
out but again I say presidential
immunity very powerful presidential
immunity is imperative or you
practically won’t have a country anymore
thank you very much thank you response
to IND
yesterday
this all right day three wrapping as you
see in former president Donald Trump’s
criminal trial there the first ever
criminal trial of a former president of
the United States um you know he’s he’s
the the man right now uh that is leading
in swing state polls uh he’s tied with
Biden nationally but um using this Forum
this time to take to the mics um it’s
really his campaign time coming out of
the courtroom and then using this
opportunity um to to say uh whatever he
wants despite 11 violations of a gag
order that judge uh Maran has uh has um
mentioned already and still considering
uh that’s a total side issue what at
hand what’s at hand now is is how
testimony went today who we heard from
um how far does it push things uh uh
down the road now as as only we’ve only
heard from one uh witness David pecker
the former publisher of of uh the
national Inquirer part of that scheme to
buy and bury uh stories about uh the
former president before the 2016
election um our whole team has been
covering this Olivia Rubin has been
outside the courthouse our political
director Rick Klein is with me also our
executive producer John santui our legal
contributor Brian buckmire and also our
senior reporter Katherine falers so guys
let’s just just I’ll take it uh just
around the room here Olivia let’s start
with you um as day three wraps up give
us the highlights from inside the
court well we flipped over from the
direct examination of David pecker and
finally saw Donald Trump’s attorney Amil
B start to cross-examine him and we saw
a little bit for the first time of what
their strategy is and what they tried to
do with David pecker on the stand this
afternoon was basically distance their
relationship of sharing information
about stories from the election because
remember prosecutors say that this was
an election effort to bury stories for
the election but his attorney said hey
this is something that they had been
doing for decades they took it all the
way back to the 1990s when David pcker
alerted Donald Trump to a negative story
about Mara Maples and they also tried to
paint it as what Emil B said was
standard operating procedure that this
was something politicians and media
Outlets did all the time that there was
nothing wrong with it and that they went
through other instances David pecker
spoke about paying $20,000 to bury
another story from another politician so
uh Donald Trump’s attorney uh getting
their shot today Donald Trump seemed
quite uh enthralled with the
cross-examination he seemed to be
watching how his attorney was doing he
was paying very close attention as he
was trying to sort of pick apart parts
of David Pecker’s story so good end to
the day for him and also would say
outside uh not a bad end to the day for
him he has been calling for some
supporters and finally outside today
here we are hearing some Trump 2024
chance for him so Rick kleene um
regardless of the legal outcome here um
just what we’ve heard in court so far
and paying attention to the former
president’s Highly Questionable approach
to ethics at the end of the day does it
matter the Trump defense to me boils
down to a very simple sentiment which is
this is Politics as Usual what was going
on with his relation ship with the
national inquire and through Michael
Cohen and the payments to the hush money
all of this is just something that
happens it happens in business and to
his saying there nothing wrong his
lawyers are saying with with it
happening in politics uh now the the
problem as a as a matter of law is that
there might be other other people to say
something about that and the jury will
have their say but essentially Trump
trump is saying look what what I did was
exactly what people have done uh for a
long time uh and that it was just a
continuation of the practices that I’d
engaged in for a long time to me is one
of the things that’s problematic about
this as a political matter as being the
first and maybe only case to to reach
trial before the election uh is that uh
it does have a lot of elements to it
that that might seem really unseemly uh
and deeply immoral and deeply wrong but
maybe not all that illegal and that’s
going to be something the jury’s going
to have to decide but that’s the way the
Trump defense has been has been set up
is you know not nothing to see here but
that what what was going on here was
very typical activities that anyone can
and should do whether they’re private
citizens or even a candidate for
president so John zanui if the content
of the trial won’t lose in the election
will the days of you know being
invisible and being stuck inside that
courtroom um help him well it’s not
going to you know listen I think the
jury’s still out on that part of things
it’s going to make it difficult for him
I think that look at the remarks he made
outside of court today you know he
reacted a little bit um to the testimony
uh saying that it he believed it was was
a good day for him to testimony then
quickly pivoted to the Supreme Court
then the economy then the protest
happening at universities around the
country right now I mean this is sort of
becoming the only Outlet Donald Trump
has um for the moment in time because
he’s pretty stuck he can’t go anywhere
else you know his schedule is not at his
control for the moment so even you know
days like tomorrow for example where you
know he’d like to get out there and
start campaigning over the weekend to
get things early given it’s a Friday he
can he has to be in court tomorrow for
another full day and that will be much
of the way his week is next week and I
also think the other part of the thing
that’s going to be complicated for him
Kira as we’ve now seen is that
prosecutors are watching even more
closely his social media the comments
he’s making to this camera outside of
court that we’re showing our viewers
right now but also to other cameras and
we’ve seen the way prosecutors have now
expanded adding four more violations in
their opinion of the gag order and one
of them with our our station wpbi in
Philadelphia leading up to the
Pennsylvania primary earlier this week
so he’s really in a situation where the
thing that’s helped him on the campaign
Trail given talking about these cases
could hurt him in the
courtroom what about Katherine the fact
that he keeps saying I’m a victim I’m a
victim I’m a victim and playing this
part of I’m a victim does that improve
his chances in November sticking to that
line Kira it’s a good question and it’s
something that we’ve heard Donald Trump
refer to himself as for quite some time
going back to investigations that he was
under by special counsels when he was
president of the United States look I
think it certainly resonates with his
supporters on the one hand because he’s
saying I’m a victim I have to be sitting
here in court I can’t get out in
campaign and look it’s true that he’s
sitting in the courtroom and he can’t be
on the campaign Trail when he’s required
to be there in the courtroom um but if
you take a step back and think about the
victim nature of it there realityy of it
is that he is facing multiple criminal
indictments and multiple different
jurisdictions he um has to be there he’s
claimed that a lot of these prosecutions
are selective and vindictive if you will
of course special counsel and
investigators have said the opposite so
look I think ultimately he’s trying to
get that message to his supporters he
believes that his legal troubles will
ultimately improve and help his
political chances come November but
again we’ll just have to see as this
trial goes on what kind of effect it has
um on his supporters and what he’s
saying and also on his fundraising
efforts all right Olivia Rick John
Katherine thank you this wraps it up for
Thursday long news long day of news uh
especially when it comes to the former
president we of course will keep
following uh both uh what comes out of
the Supreme Court and that courtroom
there in New York on this hush money
trial I’m Kira Phillips thanks for
streaming with us more news ahead
[Music]
Sunday night people think they really
know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joy I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture’s going to fade the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John Bon Joi I’m a rock
and roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
Bon Joi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC what does it take to be the most
watched newscast in
America an operation to capture Isis
finders is this our combat Operation
Center we’re approaching the gate now
militants came in from four or five
different directions operational nuclear
reactor so you have a couple loaded and
ready to
go the house is destroyed but the flag
there’s not a tear in it not a tear in
it how important is this label right
here made the USA look at your smile
you’re proud of this I love this great
work
hi where are you where are you
appreciate you thank you D than to you
is David
David yes yes I’m David M I know you are
watch you every
night ABC’s World News Tonight with
David
is America’s most watched
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streaming weekends on ABC News live get
ready America every Friday the hottest
Trends Styles and must have what’s the
right stuff to buy right now I really
love that it’s time to buy the right
stuff yes and save big time too the
right Stu Fridays on GMA you’re going to
love
it reporting from the iconic Hollywood
Sign I’m jaffan Lee wherever the story
is we’ll take you there you’re streaming
ABC News
live all right welcome back everyone to
dma 3 today we are talking about
something that we do every day showering
let’s hope so right but there is a way
that we could be Lev up B daily grub
yeah and here what tell us how to step
up our routine is the senior edit at
large new Beauty magazine Sarah
egenberger bring it to the spa right
bring it to the shower so how do you
sort of like set the mood enjoy make the
shower more than just the thing you have
to do right we want to take it away from
being a chore to something we can
actually enjoy so just simply hanging
some eucalyptus and once this actually
gets warm with the steam it all
intermingles together and you have this
like wonderful Haze of like Aroma and
minty kind of feel it just instantly
relaxes you and then you can take a deep
breath in and just enjoy your sh and it
feels like a spy at home absolutely and
why not I mean it’s such a simple thing
to do it looks great and it smells
wonderful too yeah DeMarco likes a good
smell oh I know me
too yeah so we’re going to keep on that
note actually about since and this is a
shower steamer which you probably have
heard of before this is esar check this
out because it comes with this marble
dish that you can actually place it into
and so instead of just like throwing it
on the you know shower floor it’s a
slippery mess this actually comes in
here they have their different scents
and it smells oh so good like actually
like put this in the shower you don’t
want to have it in the direct smells
like a fancy spaes delicious yeah we’ve
just elevated right we’re a fancy fancy
spot we’re at a resort now the spot the
resort all right now we’re talking about
taking care of our skin and not just the
skin of our face but in the shower on
our bodies as well because it’s really
important we nourish our bodies and so
instead of using a standard shower gel
for instance you can actually use these
oil to shower gels and so this is Kel’s
I love this cuz it feels so luxurious as
as well but it’s simply just a way to
wash your skin that feels great and it’s
actually more hydrating as well so you
have to smell this too I’m going to take
the cap off so it’s easier to
smell cuz that’s awesome you just it
doesn’t Alm oh it does smell good Alm
yeah you’re quick like a cherry almond
said Cherry Al okay we like where’s this
nose coming from all this wonderful a
little dog yeah right so this is
actually a great way to like our skin is
kind of getting dry right now as we’re
changing into the seasons allergies are
bothering you this is a great way to
hydrate your skin and
s it as well you just mix it with a
little bit of water and it emulsifies to
give you that like nice nourishing clean
but you also want to have like smooth
skin yeah soft smooth skin so this is
ner this is their exfoliator so if
you’re going to shave in the shower this
is a great way to prep the skin because
it makes your shave smoother don’t get
ingrown hairs also just makes your skin
so soft I think this is like the key to
really having that soft smooth skin is
just do a little bit of some exfoliation
a couple times a week in the
shower especially like the back we’re
talking about that and the art
it just feels amazing your feels so good
afterwards this speaking of masking a
great time to do a face mask in the
shower because now your pores are
opening up everything is soft and a
twofer it’s a twofer yeah and you’re
going to put this on when you get in the
shower it’s going to help you really
balance your skin this is shny Darden
she’s an aesthetician in California and
this is what all of her clients are
using because it just helps to purify
your skin but also balance it so it’s
not too drying either this is my
in-house dermatologist right here yes
right here is a to
use even more certified that very
certifying yeah okay so now after the
shower we have to repent from all of
that you know exfoliation and now we’re
going to start to treat ourselves so
this is what we have right here is when
we have um our deep conditioner for our
hair and so we really want to deep
condition our hair um because that’s
going to help to add that balance
especially with all the heat tools we
use everything else um that has a great
scent too you’ll like this too um it’s a
really nice way to treat your hair I do
this actually once a week with my
daughters like we do in the sink we do
an exfoliation of their hair and then
deep conditioner so it’s a great way to
really treat your hair when it’s so
damaged I came and smell these earlier
so I already know they this line is like
known for their scents like of all
things they have this tremendous amount
of scents if you like more that warm
woolly kind of scent like a really fresh
scent so different variations they have
a full line so you can do everything
from like the shower gels to the lotion
so you can mix and match and even
deodorants but this is a great way to
hydrate and also add like a little scent
to your body too which is a really
luxurious way oh yeah oh yeah so good so
good I like this one and then when you
get out of the shower you got to put
something yes cuz now like the joke is
you’re exhausted right but you should
you could just like showering so this is
actually the skin shower this is so soft
so smooth it feels really nice it’s
lightweight it has this um easy to use
um wraparound and there’s pockets in
here too which I love um for robe as
well so all easy to use and feels great
so then you can end your shower on a
wonderful note right and on a light note
too you don’t want to go to yes you’re a
little hot you’re you’re probably a
little tired after doing all this stuff
to just relax afterwards all right Sarah
egenberger again thank you very much we
appreciate it always good to to see you
know that up next when we come back the
hit ABC show in its 20th season we were
of course talking about gry’s anatomy
and Dr Teddy Altman star Kim Raver joins
us here in just a
[Applause]
bit Sunday night people think they
really know you what do you think of the
biggest misconception about
you John Bon Joi I don’t live for the
Applause you got to do it over and over
again because you know the pretty
picture is going to bab the all new
event special I’m going start singing by
the way I’m a cowboy thank you Michael
Michael stran John bonji I’m a rock and
roll star I’m not a saint I’m John
bonjovi halfway there Sunday night on
ABC get ready America every Friday the
hottest Trends Styles and must have
what’s the right stuff to buy right now
I really love that it’s time to buy the
right stuff yes and save big time too
The Right Stuff Friday on GMA you’re
going to love it why do so many people
start their day here from ABC News this
is start here to be in the know and get
a different take on the day’s top
stories start here now that’s a part of
the story I bet you didn’t see coming
make it your daily first listen wherever
you get your podcast we have a beautiful
young woman killed at the very beginning
of her life what happens when the
interrogation helps put the wrong man in
prison I wasn’t nowhere around praise to
God until years later when the the real
killer steps into the box the tough
question here is what’s the chance your
D will match that on
scene we have your DNA at the scene what
did you use my ni oh my God the
interrogation tapes Monday on ABC Babe
Ruth Hank Aron showy Otani Legends of
the game but now the list of greats
redefined from ABC News reclaim the
Forgotten League a side of the story of
baseball you have never heard before for
like this the award-winning podcast is
back listen wherever you get your
podcast or scan the QR code you see here
can you please put your arms up over
your head great thank you any weight
loss yes I just traded in my pants for a
smaller size okay Mr himz take a deep
breath
hold okay you can breathe normally okay
TB usually appears as a small cavitary
leion is that a
[Music]
right we need to get him up to CT as
soon as possible this is definitely not
TV oh welcome back everyone get this yes
ABC’s hit drama Grace’s Anatomy is now
in its 20th season which is hard to
believe for some people and that clip
was a look at what helps to make the
series so great yeah and our next guest
is a familiar face at Grace slone
Memorial hospital and she is here to
tell us more about what’s unfolding this
season please help us welcome to the
studio Dr Teddy Alman also known as Kim
Raver to see you Doctor oh thank you for
having me yes the real Doctor here
listen we we both get the credit so I
feel like we both taught a lot of people
about if only I could do what you do
that’s the problem is everyone is like
so and I’m like I don’t know’s the
script you speak the lingo I do speak
the lingo excellently thank you there’s
moments where you’re like wait what was
that word again and what does it mean
and how do I kind of get through it we
sort of have now like code amongst us
like if we don’t know what the word is I
think I think Kevin once had a word like
satinsky and we were like doing a
surgery and I was like
sit pass the satinsky and then there’s
this incredible uh woman bokei who um
who actually she does it for real and so
she’ll come in and if I don’t know what
the next instrument is in the O I’ll
just put my hand out and she like slaps
the right instrument in my hand and I’m
like thank you bokei you’re making me
look very good only hospitals were that
I know real life right I mean the 20
Seasons it’s so crazy to think about
the the thing that’s the theme through
all of it is the drama there’s so much
drama we’re about to start part two of
this most recent season what can people
expect I think you know what’s so
amazing about Grey’s Anatomy and how
it’s gone throughout all of these
seasons is they’re just the writers are
so amazing at storytelling and weaving
in a combination of the drama and the
humor and I love that we’ve got the new
interns this year CU it’s very
reminiscent of you know the beginning
beginning of you know Season 1 2 and
three and uh there’s some fantastic
things between Bailey and the interns
where she sort of taking them under
their wing again and it’s funny because
there was that real uh amazing thing in
the beginning and so Bailey is trying to
take care of him and they’re kind of
like well no we don’t want a wellness
kit and so there’s like really fun thing
between the interns and Bailey and with
the Min story lines what is it that you
think keeps people coming back what is
it that resonates with the audience you
know I think Shandra rymes created this
show where you get to really see the
lives of these characters where they
have their hero moments but they have
their really difficult fallible moments
where they make mistakes and I think
that that’s a very human thing and I
think it’s a it’s really wonderful to be
able to tune in and say wow it’s really
aspiring that I can kind of want to be
that person but yet oh wow they just
made a terrible mistake and relatable
and it’s relatable and you watch them
kind of step into life and it helps you
kind of go through your daily life and I
think that fans we have incredible fans
and I think they really stick with the
characters as they’re going through
their life Journey one of the favorite
things I do is watching fan reactions to
those Cliffhangers uh from one doctor to
another what is your favorite part about
being a TV doctor I’m always so
disappointed when I’m like no I’m not a
a real doctor it’s I am just so blown
away by the knowledge that you all have
um Teddy is just s she’s so good at what
she does I mean literally there’s a
scene where Teddy is like you know I
don’t I can’t give away that moment but
like she’ll be cutting open doing open
heart surgery and taking a heart out and
repairing it and that is just such an
incredible gift that you all go out in
the world and do and so when I realize
you know I can’t even take a state out
of my son’s finger I’m like oh my God
you staple I call 911 they’re like just
pull it out oh right just pull it out so
I’m I’m always so impressed with and
especially now I mean that what the the
medical world has been doing and um I’m
I’m I’m really just so grateful and
Incredibly impressed by what a treat for
us really good it’s amazing to have you
on TV
representing Kim rer thanks so much for
being with us today and you can catch
graay Anatomy it returns Thursday May
2nd on ABC and it’ll stream the next day
on Hulu nice thank you so much thank you
so much that’s what you need to know for
today I’m even Pilgrim I’m DeMarco
Morgan and I’m Dr Daran for all of us
here at ABC including Kim right here
have a wonderful day and we will see you
tomorrow I need you all night come on
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I’m Kenny WTH here in Los Angeles and
right now on ABC News live Donald Trump
back in court his legal troubles keeping
him off the campaign Trail a former
tabloid publisher testifying for a third
day in Trump’s criminal hush money trial
the revealing new testimony there plus
the arguments at the Supreme Court over
Trump’s claims of presidential immunity
in a separate case also campus
protesters rallying at more universities
today in response to the Israel Hamas
War we have the latest on the
demonstrations and how police are
responding also the stunning ruling
today why New York’s highest court
overturned one of Harvey Weinstein’s
convictions and what comes next in that
case but we begin here with Donald
Trump’s legal troubles intensifying on
multiple fronts as he spends more time
in court than he does on the campaign
Trail the former president backed before
a judge today in New York his criminal
hush money trial he blasted the case
again this after proceedings wrapped
just a short time ago this is a trial
that should have never happened this is
a case that should have never been filed
and it was really an
incredible an incredible uh day open
your eyes then we can’t let this
continue to happen to our
country well Trump sitting at the
defense table as former National
Inquirer publisher David pecker
testified for a third day pecker
describing how in the days before the
2016 election he says he helped arrange
a deal to keep Playboy model Karen
McDougall quiet about an alleged Affair
that she says she had with Trump former
president has denied her claims and
today in Washington the Supreme Court
started hearing arguments over his
claims of presidential immunity in the
special council’s election case at least
some of the justices appearing skeptical
of Trump’s claim that President should
have absolute immunity from prosecution
for official acts while in
office let’s say this president who
ordered the military to stage aoup he’s
no longer president he wasn’t impeached
he couldn’t be impeached um but but he
ordered the military to stage aoup and
you’re saying that’s an official act uh
I think it would depend on immune I
think it would depend on the
circumstances whether it was an official
act if it were an official act again he
would have to be imp what does that mean
depend on the
circumstances all right we’ll have a lot
more on that historic Supreme Court case
here the arguments today as well and the
Justice’s reactions we’ll talk about
that just ahead of course this also
comes As Trump appears to be an
unindicted co-conspirator in an alleged
fake elector scheme in Arizona where
Rudy Giuliani Mark Meadows and Boris
Epstein are among several former and
current AIDS now facing charges so for
more on the hush money trial I want to
bring in our investigative reporter
Olivia Rubin who’s live outside Court in
lower Manhattan along with criminal
defense attorney and former Federal
prosecutor Tim Jansen thank you both for
being here with us Olivia let’s start
here with you look lots of timeline
details today from Pecker’s test
testimony honing in on efforts to
allegedly conceal a paper trail but
Olivia we also heard some major Trump
Administration names mentioned in that
testimony as well can you bring us up to
speed
here we did Kana because think about it
David pcker walked the jury through
those three instances where he bought up
the negative stories and then he started
telling about the efforts where Trump
was essentially keeping an eye on
keeping them quiet and as my colleague
Luke bugman who I was in the Overflow
room with later in the day said it’s so
beautifully Trump appeared obsessed with
making sure those stories did not see
the light of day pecker talked about two
uh meetings at Trump Tower when Trump
was the vice president elect he said
that his then Communications person aan
Spicer was there he said that a bunch of
names uh were present at that meeting
then he said even when Trump became
president he went to the Oval Office and
talked with Trump he received multiple
phone calls from Trump he received phone
calls from those who worked for Trump
think about Hope Hicks think about Sarah
Huckabee Sanders all of them talking
about how the stories were going to stay
quiet in one instance one woman had
given a press interview Trump was very
very angry about that pcker recalled so
sort of lifting that Veil on this post
effort once the stories had been bought
and how to make sure that they remain
shielded all right Olivia and Tim what
do you make here of pecker testifying
that he had at least two postelection
meetings with Trump and Cohen and met
with Trump a major Administration
officials in 2018
well I I I don’t think it’s that big a
deal uh considering the business he was
in I think the defense has started their
cross-examination showing that he’s been
doing this for Trump for 30 years um as
a defense lawyer if I’m sitting there
and he’s testified for three days and
six hours and I haven’t heard a crime
yet I’m feeling pretty good um on the
contrary um it’s it’s it’s a hush money
and it’s done all the time uh pecker
gave some testimony very favorable to
president Trump uh pcker talked about he
was dealing with Cohen only talking with
Cohen about the money so how do we know
if and he said Trump didn’t even know
about the payments the the state has not
really pushed the ball they haven’t
moved the ball uh the question I have is
is like where’s the meat of this case
and why are they waiting for past three
days to show what crime was
committed and I’d love for Olivia to
expand on that a little a little bit
because Olivia to his point there we did
see the defense strategy sort of Take
Shape for the first time today and to
his point they try to talk about this
you know this alleged catch and kill
scheme here essentially as business as
usual that’s exactly what it was
standard operating procedure as Trump’s
attorney Amil boovie said to the jury
and he walked David pecker through the
first time that he ever alerted Donald
Trump to one of the negative stories
that he was hearing it was in the 1990s
about uh Mara Maples the story
ultimately came out but he had tried to
prevent it from doing so and what
defense attorneys were trying to do
there was say this had nothing to do
with the election this is what Donald
Trump and David pcker did for years they
alerted each other of stories they had a
mutually beneficial relationship and
they worked together and what’s more Kaa
is they tried to say as I just said it
was standard procedure this is something
that politicians they said did uh you
know with tabloids when they’re trying
to win the election when they’re trying
to control their image and David pecker
testified that he did it for others as
well he spoke about a $20,000 story he
killed for Rah Emanuel so they’re trying
to make it seem like this was not
election interference it had nothing to
do with his presidency but really that’s
just the way that it worked right he
talked about how Stormy Daniels was out
there shopping her story Olivia and Tim
thank you so much for being here with us
today in your analysis we want to go
back now to the historic supreme court
hearing today the justice is weighing
arguments in Donald Trump’s presidential
immunity case Trump’s lawyers argue that
a former president has immunity from
prosecution when it comes to quote
official acts during tenure in office
but some of the justices seemed
skeptical of that argument I want you to
listen to this real
quickly this is what you’re asking us to
say which is that a president is
entitled not to make a
mistake but
more than that a pre president is
entitled for total personal gain to use
the trappings of his office if a
president can be charged put on trial
and imprisoned for his most
controversial decisions as soon as he
leaves office that looming threat will
distort the president’s decision-making
precisely when bold and fearless action
is most
needed all right the Supreme Court’s
decision will determine whether special
counsel Jack Smith can try the former
president for his alleged efforts to
interfere with the 2020 election so I
want to bring in our ABC News senior
Washington reporter Deon DWI ABC News
senior reporter kathern folders and ABC
News legal contributor and former FBI
agent Asha Rapa so thank you all for
being here with us and Devon let’s start
here with you uh listening to the
questions that the justices act can be
uh asked can be really telling in this
case and as we’ve mentioned it seemed
like there was some skepticism over
Trump’s claim here of absolute immunity
uh Amy Cony Barrett in particular trying
to parse out those acts in this
indictment the ones considered private
versus those considered official I was
in that Court chamber for nearly three
hours today Kaa and across the bench
there was skepticism of Donald Trump’s
claim of absolute immunity from
prosecution uh so in that sense it was
not a good day for him but you’re right
uh in the other sense the court was also
at least several of the conservative
justices skeptical of a green light for
a trial to move ahead right away for his
conduct around the 2020 election
what that means is the court needs to
come up with some kind of a rule as you
alluded to there Justice Barrett one of
the justices that started to get into
the Weeds on that rule about what sorts
of conduct what types of conduct are
protected from prosecution and how do
you decide that uh there was no
consensus today on the bench in that
regard that means these justices will
take time to write their opinion it also
likely means Kaa that it will sake some
time for a lower court to parse through
this indictment against Donald Trump and
figure out which of those charges can go
forward which at the end of the day as
you said there is a good good thing for
Donald Trump it’s not likely and less
likely after today’s arguments that a a
federal prosecution uh for his his
activities in 2020 will go forward
before the election much l be decided
before the 20 uh 2024 election uh but
we’ll have to see what the justices say
when they hand down their decision at
the end of
June absolutely so Katherine that takes
us right here to you I mean what are the
implications here if we don’t have a
decision before November I mean really
or if we do look I think we could have a
decision at least before November but
it’s as Devon laid out it seems unlikely
that it’s going to be yes Trump has
absolute presidential immunity or no he
doesn’t it’s not going to be that simple
so the ruling will likely be more
nuanced from the court then what happens
it obviously depends what the Supreme
Court says but even if it goes back down
to the lower courts to decide for
example what are private acts what are
public acts still that is going to have
to be litigated in the courts and that
could take some time right down there in
the lower courts to perhaps write
something that’s different that has a
little bit more clarity uh so I now want
to bring in Asha Rapa here as more so
Asha to you could the Supreme Court’s
decision impacts Trump’s other federal
case would it have any bearing on the
classified documents
case yes I mean look the court
potentially has a very narrow path if
they want to take it they can just say
we’re not going to rule on this big
constitutional issue we just know that
the facts that we see right now aren’t
official acts but it doesn’t like
they’re going in that way and if they do
fashion a broader rule of some kind
where you have to delineate what’s an
official ACT versus a non-official act
it can have implications for example in
the maralago case because he took those
documents before noon on January 20th
2021 when which arguably could have been
an official act uh same thing with
Georgia where he’s being he’s indicted
for some of these same things so I it
will have Ripple effects on these other
cases and again for future presidents as
well all right that’s really interesting
Insight uh Devin Katherine and ashar
thanks to all of you of course for more
on this I want to bring in our ABC News
political director Rick Klein and ABC
News contributor and presidential
historian Mark upov gentlemen thank you
for being here and Mark can you break
down I mean the historic nature of this
case what are the ramifications here
that go well beyond Trump I mean how
will this affect presidents going
forward in this country K it will
certainly expand the power of the
presidency already the most powerful job
on on Earth and certainly in our country
uh but there are other ramifications too
I mean John uh John Adams one of our
founding fathers and our second
president said that we are a nation of
laws and not men and this makes one man
pretty powerful uh all the more powerful
in in um uh in the offing so there is a
major major precedent here you could see
the seriousness of this case in the uh
uh when when uh the justices were
questioning uh the the lawyers in this
case it has very very far-reaching
consequences and and will be enormously
consequential in the
future and to our again to our entire
country and to president is moving
forward but Rick let’s talk about the
potential consequences here for Trump
himself right let’s talk about this poll
it’s an ABC News ipsos poll it’s from
late last year admittedly but 52% of
respondents think that Trump should be
charged with a crime in this case 32%
said they should have not but Rick 46%
say that they think the charges are
politically motivated here so how does
that translate over to a looming general
election is a fascinating Insight
because there’s a lot of overlap there
right almost by definition you’ve got
some people who think it’s politically
motivated you also think people who
think that it’s that’s serious enough to
to Warrant charging and whether it’s
this case or the the hush money case or
the classified documents case politics
undeniably a big part of it and look one
of the one of the upshots out of today’s
hearing is is as we’ve it is this is now
less likely that he is going to face
trial at any point in the conceivable
future before the election this year and
if he is elected again these charges
almost certainly go away he instructs
his justice department to toss them out
or he pardons himself so whether the
Supreme Court knows it or not they are
playing into his legal strategy it’s not
just about whether he wins or loses this
case it’s not about whether the public
thinks he’s guilty or not guilty or
should be charged or not charged he has
a way of winning just by playing out the
clock and to my mind the Supreme Court
has already done a huge favor to Donald
Trump by even taking up this case by
signaling the skepticism this is going
to last a
while as we have heard time and time
again the efforts to delay delay delay
Rick Klein Mark upd Grove are thanks to
both of you you of course can catch uh
more of this presentation today of
today’s Supreme Court oral arguments on
whether former president Trump can be
criminally prosecuted in the special
council’s election interference case
that is at midnight Eastern Time right
here on ABC News live all right coming
up next here camp protesters rallying at
more universities today in response to
the Israel Hamas War we have the latest
on those demonstrations Straight
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first thing in the morning there’s a lot
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fast straight forward with some fun in
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America this morning America’s number
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we have a beautiful young woman killed
at the very beginning of her life what
happens when the interrogation helps put
the wrong man in prison I wasn’t nowhere
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when the real killer steps into the box
the tough question here is what’s the
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interrogation tapes Monday on
ABC and welcome back campus protesters
rallying at more universities today this
is in response to the Israel Hamas War
Pro Palestinian demonstrators locking
arms at Northeastern University in
Boston you can see them there forming a
human chain around an encampment uh this
is as police body camera video also
shows authorities in Boston confronting
a different group of protesters at
Emerson College this happened overnight
take a look we don’t want to escalate to
do anything so again I’ve done a lot of
these V reasonable we don’t want to
arrest anybody trust me we all want to
go home just like we want you to go home
tonight so I’m welcome free to answer
any questions um speak to anyone who
wants to speak to me but just go we we
got to open up free free Palestine free
free all right police are saying that
they arrested more than a hundred
protesters there at Emerson uh in the
meantime in Atlanta today more than a
dozen people detained at Emer University
after clashes between police and
protesters there and then here in Los
Angeles demonstrators setting up tens at
UCLA a day after more than 90 people
were arrested during protests across
town at USC so joining me right now is
Stephanie Ramos who’s been tracking the
protest at Columbia University all week
uh there in New York and zorine Shaw
here in Los Angeles monitoring the
protest on the west coast forest uh
Stephanie let’s start here with you
protest at Columbia essentially sparking
a lot of these demonstrations that we’re
seeing across the country so what is the
latest there today and any progress on
these talks between school the school
administrators and the
demonstrators so student demonstrators
that we we have spoken with say that
they are in constant communication with
University officials here at Columbia
University the student demonstrators I
want to remind everyone that they are
that have been here for eight days now
set up on the west lawn they are
sleeping in those tents studying in
those tents eating doing everything
there many of them refusing to leave
until their demands are met and they’ve
also shared with me that they’re
extremely proud to have influenced other
Grassroots this grassroot movement at
universi across the country uh now back
to the negotiations we did speak with
one of the student negotiators who is in
those meetings with University officials
here’s what he had to say about where
they stand our our first demand of
course is the divestment from the
Israeli occupation and from the
companies that are benefiting from the
genocide of the people in Gaza the
second demand is for the University to
disclose their Investments and financial
transparency the third one is the
amnesty for all these students who were
unjustly uh suspended and arrested by
NYPD for uh for peacefully uh peacefully
uh protesting on their
campus the deadline for this group to
disperse is supposedly tomorrow but the
student demonstrators and the
negotiators that we’ve spoken to say
they’re really unclear on if the if the
university will act on uh bringing the
NYPD or other campus officials to
physically remove them so it’s kind of a
a wait and see situation right now Kaa
all right Steph thank you so much and
zorine to you we have some news out of
USC here today canceling its main
graduation ceremony in response to the
protest there uh what are the
administrator
saying Kaa this is a really big deal so
they released a statement saying that
the ceremony with 65,000 people the main
stage is going to actually be canceled
the smaller schools will go on to hold
their ceremonies but the reason why this
is so big is because USC has one of the
first graduations out of all the
universities so the question now is if
others will follow suit now now you
mentioned UCLA as well those protests
started this morning the university says
they’re actively monitoring them and
they say they call them free expression
uh um they say they uh examples of free
expression so a very different approach
than what USC is taking but one thing I
want to point out I think it’s so great
that Stephany had that bite from that
student the students are also saying
there’s so much attention on what these
schools are doing and not enough
attention on what they say is happening
in the Middle East look they’re pointing
out there’s 34,000 people dead in Gaza
19,000 children orphaned 14,000 children
dead over a million people facing famine
they say that is where they want their
attention to be where they want
everyone’s attention to be in this
moment Kaa all right zorine and
Stephanie our thanks to both of you for
your coverage we appreciate that coming
up next here a bombshell ruling today in
New York’s highest court overturning the
rape conviction of movie producer Harvey
Weinstein that’s next
first thing in the morning there’s a lot
going on got another Avalanche warning
that’s up to catch you up with what
happened overnight a dangerous ice storm
is impacting the morning commute what’s
happening today escalating tensions in
the Middle East what people are talking
about the migrant crisis fast
straightforward with some fun in between
how does billionaire sound sounds good
to me the Moose started chasing a dog
first thing in the morning America this
morning America’s number one early
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tonight the Supreme Court takes on the
power of the presidency oral arguments
begin in Donald Trump’s bid for immunity
plus tornado severe weather the 10
states in the path more Americans turn
to World News Tonight with David mure
the most watched newscast on television
why do so many people start their day
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[Music]
well now to disgrace producer Harvey
Weinstein one of the most powerful movie
Moguls in Hollywood and this morning New
York’s highest court overturning his
2020 conviction on felony sex crime
charges and ordering a retrial now the
New York Court of Appeals finding that
the judge who presided over that
original trial made a critical error
when he allowed the jury to hear
testimony from women who alleged that
Weinstein sexually assaulted them even
though those claims were not among those
charges that were filed against him in
that trial so I want to bring in our ABC
News legal contributor and partner at
the Cochran Law Firm shaa Lloyd for more
on this so uh Shauna what is the basis
here of overturning this I mean does
this all Center on these women that
testified no Kaa this is really not
about guilter innocence this is about a
procedural error so what the higher
court is saying is that the lower court
aired because they allowed other
person’s women to testify about
uncharged bad acts this is normally not
allowed when all it’s entered for is the
purpose of showing that he has a
propensity of doing those kinds of Acts
it can only be entered for motive to
show that it wasn’t a mistake and other
legal purposes so the higher Court felt
that this was a violation of his
constitutional right they also found
that by determining what the prosecution
could ask him about even though that’s
not his other prior bad acts the fight
in the bar and other things that he did
that was also something that affected
his determination as to whether or not
he should testify so this is all about
constitutional
rights okay so Shauna now in New York
could this case then be retried and if
it is Will these women come back to
testify how does that all play out
considering the fact that he of course
has been convicted on other charges here
in Los
Angeles absolutely Kana prosecution well
the prosecutor’s office will have to
make a determination if they’re going to
retry if they do retry the witnesses and
all of the women that step forward to
testify would be asked to testify
against him
again that’s that’s a tough ask for a
lot of those people shaa Lloyd thank you
so much for being here with us we
appreciate you we have a lot more news
ahead here on ABC News live in today’s
big story Donald Trump’s legal cases
playing out in two separate courtrooms
today the dramatic new testimony and his
hush money trial in New York also how
Justice is at the Supreme Court
responded to arguments over his claims
of presidential immunity also in our
Spotlight the stunning ruling in favor
of disgrace movie producer Harvey
Weinstein our panel will weigh in on the
overturning of his rape conviction that
we just spoke with Shauna about that’s
next what does it take to be the most
watched newscast in
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Donald Trump’s legal troubles keeping
him from the campaign Trail and igniting
high stakes debate over the powers of
the presidency I’m Kaa Whitworth here in
Los Angeles and that is our big story
today the former president back in court
as well in his criminal hush money trial
the dramatic new testimony from a former
tabloid publisher also how justices at
the Supreme Court reacted to arguments
over Trump’s immunity claims in a
separate case Plus in our Spotlight
we’ll talk about the stunning ruling in
favor of disgrace movie producer harrey
Weinstein our panel will weigh in on the
overturning of his rape conviction in
New
[Music]
York well we begin here with our big
story we’ll be speaking with Jonathan
Carl here in one moment talking about
Donald Trump’s legal troubles
intensifying on multiple fronts as he
spends more time in court than he does
on the campaign Trail and so John look
we have a lot to talk about today so
let’s go ahead and start with the
Supreme Court proceedings right it was
almost like you know the the one step
forward two steps back that you hear and
when you heard Donald Trump walk out of
the New York courtroom in his criminal
hush money trial he called the Supreme
Court case Monumental he said the
justices were on their game but John it
appears in those arguments that across
the board everyone was a bit skeptical
here of the full presidential immunity
uh that Trump wants do you think he’s
going to find that surprising well you
know Trump’s lawyers made a pretty
extreme case about presidential immunity
what they call absolute immunity they
don’t mean absolutely everything but
anything that could be remotely tied to
his official acts as president they
argued a president must be immune from
Criminal prosecution uh Trump himself by
the way goes further on the campaign
Trail he makes it sound like a president
can’t be prosecuted for anything
regardless of whether or not it’s
official but K there’s one interesting
thing that I think was not uh uh noted
today that it should have been and that
is that Trump’s own Council when he was
impeached for January 6th argued that
there was no need for the Congress to
then to to to convict a former president
in a impeachment trial because he could
be charged in a criminal trial and his
lawyers in that case on the senate floor
you remember that Senate trial said um
we have an investigative process in this
country to which no office no former
office holder is immune uh so his own
lawyers not that long ago had argued the
exact opposite of what they were arguing
today oh that’s really interesting John
and also since you bring that up uh my
producer Le set today honed in as well
on the argument here of if a president
could actually pardon himself right and
that was brought up today in these in
these arguments and Trump’s lawyer
essentially saying oh I hadn’t thought
of that just yet yeah and and it was
interesting I I I I think it was Justice
was one of the conservative justices
said we haven’t had to uh rule on
whether or not a self- paron is
constitutional thankfully so they don’t
want to rule on that uh but you know
essentially it it’s clear uh Trump sees
all of these Powers presidential powers
in their in their absolutely widest
possible
interpretation and that is is so
important in terms this decision is so
important in terms of what the future of
the presidency means in this country uh
sounds though also John like this might
get kicked down right to a lower court
especially considering what Amy Cony
Barrett was looking at in particular
about you know the things that he can do
officially and the things that he can do
privately and does the special counsel
need to essentially rewrite that and
make it more clear we don’t know what
the Supreme Court will rule or how long
they will take to issue the ruling but
it sure sounded like what they were
saying is there is some degree of of
presidential immunity for official acts
and the question is defining what those
official official acts are so what you
could see happen what you’re alluding to
is the Supreme Court basically saying
this has to go back down to the lower
courts to deal with that issue before
any criminal trial of Donald Trump can
go forward uh uh on this January 6 case
and if that happens can it’s very
important to say that if the Supreme
Court a either takes a long time to
issue this ruling or B uh doesn’t issue
a ruling that allows the the the
criminal case to go forward I I see
absolutely no way that you could see a
January 6th election interference
federal case go to trial before the
election and given that Trump has made
it clear that he would fire the special
counsel that he would throw this case at
instruct his justice department to throw
it out if that happens it’s quite
possible uh that we never see Donald
Trump held to account criminally uh for
what happened on January
6th and in his terms of delay delay
delay that would be considered a major
win here uh in those tactics I mean it
is it is 100% a win uh even if he
ultimately loses this idea of full
absolute imunity if he delays that is a
win yeah and John I also want to get
your thoughts here on the fact that you
know these statements happened today uh
these arguments happened in front of the
Supreme Court we remember right that
Donald Trump had asked the judge in New
York to be there he wanted to be there
today when the justices heard these
arguments he couldn’t be there uh how do
you think he was reacting to all of that
today as he sat in a New York courtroom
I think it’s maddeningly frustrating to
him it’s why he went out early this
morning uh to try to do something of a
campaign stop seeing some some workers
in New York I I I think the whole notion
that he is really not free to leave that
trial it’s dawned on him the
implications of being a criminal
defendant uh another thing I think that
is very important here Kan about this
case you had two kind of Visions
presented one Donald Trump’s Vision that
if a president is not immune that uh he
can’t do anything he or she can’t do
anything uh because they’ll be fear
fearful of prosecution uh that’s One
Vision uh the other Vision was katangi
brown Jackson Justice Jackson made the
the point that if a president is
determined to have this broad absolute
immunity uh then it in her mind it turns
the Oval Office potentially into the
center of criminal activity in the
United States because a president could
do what would know going in that the
president could do whatever here she
wanted legal or not and not fear uh
criminal
consequences right and then what power
do the people have to hold their elected
officials accountable is is the big
question right uh John Carl thank you so
much for being with us here today we
always appreciate your analysis and your
time with us here on ABC News live I
want to bring our story now to our big
panel so joining us today here is our
ABC News contrib and Series XM radio
host Mike Muse ABC News contributor and
Democratic strategist Christina sinsun
Ramirez editor of the National Review
romes panu and ABC News legal
contributor and law professor Kim wayy
so thank you all for being here with us
on a really busy day uh so Kim Let’s
Start here with you uh again we keep
hearing about this topic from the court
today about what constitutes this
official ACT versus a private act are
you able to assess that for us on a
legal
basis no because it doesn’t exist in
this moment there is that distin for
civil liability for presidents right
remember Bill Clinton was was had to sit
through depositions and things for a a
harassment sex harassment case that
preceded his presidency because that was
private but the court here seems poised
to manufacture this for criminal
activity and it’s really hard to see how
it’s going to draw that line in part
because the justices didn’t seem
interested in probing Criminal Intent so
essentially uh one of the justices asked
okay so you could could you assassinate
a political rival because you just don’t
like them and you want to secure your
power and Donald Trump’s lawyer had a
hard time answering that the no he
basically said that’s possible that’s
the kind of thing that might be
immune and rsh I would just love to get
your analysis of here of how the Supreme
Court handled this today in listening to
this I mean we haven’t heard uh their
entire reactions yet and there is a lot
of thought here that they might kick
this back down to a lower
court well I think it is a challenge to
the justices because
uh it’s a big issue that they are trying
to figure out that has implications
Beyond this case uh and I think that’s
the thing that’s really um uh slowing
them down because I don’t think that
there’s a lot of takers for this
extremely
implausible claim that Trump and his
lawyers are making um certainly the one
that Trump is making on the stump that
he needs an absolute immunity that isn’t
even spelled out in the Constitution um
but uh if it was just a question of
swatting that down I think it would be a
much faster and easier
process and but fast is not what the
former president wants in this case
right and Christina to you here what do
you make of uh what do you think they
might make here of Justice Leo’s
sympathetic views if you will towards
positions Advanced by Trump’s team uh in
particular Alo asking if Trump’s lawyer
was taking the position that if a
president quote makes a mistake that
he’s subject to criminal laws like
anybody
else you know I think there was concern
for folks watching and listening the
Supreme Court today especially from the
Supreme Court Justices that were
nominated by Donald Trump um or have are
more conservative there was definitely
sympathy for some of the positions of
the Trump Administration even um though
they you could see that there were
struggling with some of the far extreme
views of immunity and I think ultimately
people watching are concerned with the
legitimacy of the Supreme Court it was
also interesting that you did not see
Justice Thomas recuse himself from this
case given that his wife jinny Thomas uh
was uh um at um these protests was
texting messages um to the highest
levels of his staff about this case and
so I think that ultimately this is also
a question of the Supreme Court
Justice’s legitimacy um as a court
moving
forward and Mike I’d love to get your
thoughts here on also uh we heard John
Carl mention mention this as well of
Justice katangi Brown Jackson warning
that giving president’s absolute
immunity turn the White House into a
quote the seat of criminal activity in
this country I love that conversation
that you had with John Carl because
Canada that was the big takeaway for me
one just let’s can we recognize historic
nature of this moment uh that these
justices will be making a decision that
could impact the Oval Office for decades
to come um but really she was getting to
this idea about the chilling effect and
when she was asking her question she was
really talking about if you remove the
possibility of of criminal
investigations or indictments that will
remove the chilling effect of the Oval
Office I thought that was a very
powerful line of questioning but then
Kane I thought was really powerful when
they really got to the sentiment of why
the Constitution was created so that
United States didn’t have a monarchy
which is what they were fighting against
which is why the Constitution was
created and so I thought that was good
to bring that historical context into
perspective of why the Constitution was
created and why the idea of liity should
or should not exist because America does
not want to fall back into a monarchy
where a person has complete immunity uh
no matter what absolutely all right Mike
Christina remesh and Kim thank you so
much for being with us today I’m coming
up next here New York’s highest court
overturning movie Mogul Harvey
Weinstein’s conviction on sex crimes
what is next for the Oscar winning
producer who became a poster child for
the me too movement our panel weighs in
after the break
[Music]
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this is not about parents who just let
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day’s top stories a lot of news today so
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[Music]
where Harvey wearing his hotel robe
immediately began asking if he could
give me aass massage and this progressed
into him insisting that I watch him take
a shower and other acts of sexual
harassment and aggression I was lucky I
got out of that forel
[Music]
nominated actress Ashley Jud who accused
Harvey Weinstein of sexually harassing
her several other women also accused the
disgraced Hollywood producer of sexual
assault and rape and in today’s
Spotlight this morning New York’s
highest court overturning Weinstein’s
2020 conviction on felony sex crime
charges and ordering a retrial uh the
New York Court of Appeals finding that
the judge who presided over this
original trial made a critical error
when he allowed the jury to hear
testimony from women who alleged that
Weinstein had sexually assaulted them
even though those claims were not among
the charges that were filed against him
uh this is what his lawyer said today
there are some people who are very
unpopular in our
society but we still have to apply the
law fairly to them and in this
Courthouse behind us at that trial the
law was not applied fairly to Harvey
Weinstein
well let’s bring back my panel here Mike
rsh Christina and joining our panel here
is ABC News legal contributor and
partner at the Cochran Law Firm Shauna
Lloyd uh shaa can I actually get your
reaction right there uh from what we
just heard from the lawyer that that he
doesn’t think he was treated fairly and
I also want for you to clarify for our
viewers watching this that these were
not this was not his only conviction he
was convicted here in La so tell us
about what happens to Harvey next
correct let’s begin with that he was
convicted in LA and he’s still serving
that sentence so this does not mean that
he’s been released from prison he is
still incarcerated and will remain so
what this attorney is pointing out is
really what happened there was a
procedural indiscretion by the judge to
allow in testimony that is not typically
allowed in at a criminal trial the judge
always has to balance out whether
information about prior bad acts has
some it has to be tied to some material
fact in the current trial just because
you did bad things in the past doesn’t
mean that it can be used in your current
trial unless it’s tied something
specific and that is what this ruling is
about
today all right and Christina I’d love
to get your reaction here I mean do you
feel that the decision from the appeals
court is warranted
here I I mean the appeals court had to
balance a lot of things out but what we
do know is that this doesn’t cast doubt
in the minds of millions of people and
like um was just stated he is still
convicted in the state of California for
these other crimes and it’s serving 16
years there is no doubt about his guilt
um in other cases this is a question of
um how this case was moved forward and
really who I’m thinking about are the
numerous women that had The Bravery to
come forward after years and years of a
very powerful man that used his position
to sexually assault rape um harass and
ruin the careers of women that even
threaten to speak up so that’s who I’m
thinking about today un less about
Harvey Weinstein
himself and I think that many of those
women if this does go back to court in
New York will have to take that stand
again and tell their stories uh once
again uh romes what’s your take here
well I think the appell attorney made uh
an excellent point there that unpopular
people have due process rights and I
would add justly unpopular people uh bad
people have due process rights as well
and uh the legal principle here is an
important one because you need to be
convicted uh based on the evidence that
you committed the offense that you were
charged with not that you committed some
offense that you weren’t charged with
and that you weren’t that wasn’t
actually proven Beyond A Reasonable
Doubt in court um so uh as as much as we
might be glad that he is in jail and
hope that he stays in jail I think that
that’s a uh that’s that’s that point was
right was the correct
one I mean it really comes down to Legal
procedure right but also Mike in the
bigger picture here this case to quote
Bob boy who was on this case was
foundational I mean this changed the
lives of a lot of people and we saw a
lot of powerful men fall in the me too
movement after
this you’re exactly right Kana and I
think I will pick up to answer your
question where shaa really left off in
that excellent explanation about this
was overturn on a technicality and to
bring into our other segment is that the
reason I’m happy that it was about
technicality is that it doesn’t create a
chilling effect for other women to come
in the future to present um their case
of possible abuse that was what the me
too movement was really about in the
silver lining of that movement that it
gave so many women uh a community uh and
confident to come forward knowing that
they will be believed and prior to the
me to era mov it the challenge for women
coming forward was they felt that they
wouldn’t be believed and they wouldn’t
be taken serious that’s what the me
movement really did and so although this
was overturned I’m glad that was
overturned on the technicality so it
doesn’t create a Ching effect for women
to come forward in the future right
they’re not questioning their
story all right Mike Christina shaa and
rsh we have we have a lot to talk about
we will continue to talk about this
thank you so much for being with us here
today all right coming up in our last
call here graduation season is upon us
but those diplomas they might not count
much in your job hunt my panel weighs in
on why more companies are ditching those
college degrees that’s next
[Music]
Sunday night people think they really
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Applause you got to do it over and over
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[Music]
live there’s so many different ways that
people will find their own path to
success you now for some of us that
means college for some of us it means
skills and we have a lot of programs
where we want to make sure people have
the skills they need to be successful
recognizing that that while college is
great for some it’s not exactly the
right answer for everyone
all right it’s time now for our last
call that was the CEO of Walmart talking
about a growing Trend that his company
is one of more than a dozen across this
country that are dropping college degree
requirements for thousands of
high-paying jobs they’re opting instead
to train workers internally I want to
bring back my panel to talk about this
let’s start with you rsh I think this is
a really fascinating idea here because
we know a lot of parents sort of present
College as just what you do after high
school to their kids but you know we’ve
had Mike Row on the show to talk about
the importance of trade school and
learning those other skills and how that
can help the
workplace yes I think we’re in the
middle of a an overdue
reassessment of this question of whether
it’s right to sort of tell everybody
that the only path to success is the
traditional college diploma and we’re
seeing that in the private sector we’re
seeing it in governments governments in
Pennsylvania and Maryland have also been
dropping some of these college
requirements for government jobs uh you
know because you don’t want to be
screening out people who can do the job
well if you do that you’re just stifling
opportunity and let’s talk about the
money factor in this Christina I mean
kids are leaving school with so much
debt right now this is coming at a time
when some private universities
reportedly could cost I me $90,000 a
year for
tuition yeah I mean I think that there’s
two things that are that we can
celebrate here one is that there is
great opportunities for people that have
real life skills and on the job
experience to be able to grow in their
workplaces that’s great for those
employers and those workers and the last
thing we need to make sure we’re doing
is making sure college is more
affordable for everyone because still
the majority of jobs new jobs in this
country do require a college degree they
do and so Mike does an idea like this
–––
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