PBS NewsHour full episode, April 29, 2024
AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening. I’m Amna Nawaz.
GEOFF BENNETT: And I’m Geoff Bennett.
On the "NewsHour" tonight: Hamas considers the
latest cease-fire proposal, as Israeli leaders
brace for potential International
Criminal Court arrest warrants.
AMNA NAWAZ: With protests against the war
in Gaza spreading to more college campuses,
we take a look at student demands
for divestment from Israel.
GEOFF BENNETT: And the Indian
government is accused of attempting
to assassinate Sikh activists on U.S. soil.
GREG MILLER, National Security Correspondent,
The Washington Post: This was something that
sort of traces back to the 1980s. It sort
of went quite for many decades since then,
but has flared back up since Modi came to power.
(BREAK)
GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "NewsHour." A
Hamas delegation left Cairo this evening and
is expected to return with a response to
the latest cease-fire proposal. That’s as
fraught negotiations continue nearly
seven months into the war in Gaza.
AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary of State Blinken is back
in the region today, and he pressed not just for
a cease-fire and for hostage release, but
for much more humanitarian aid into Gaza.
Meantime, the Israeli bombardment
continues in Gaza’s south,
with the city of Rafah in their sights.
Homes in Southern Gaza today nothing more
than crushed concrete and twisted bodies,
amid this wreckage, one small
survivor, just 2 months old.
UMM FAYEZ ABU TAHA, Rafah, Gaza, Resident (through
translator): We took her from under the rubble,
thank God. Was she holding a rocket or was
she standing near tanks? What’s her fault?
AMNA NAWAZ: Palestinian medics say
at least 22 people were killed in
Israeli airstrikes on Rafah last
night. As the barrage continues,
pressure mounts for Hamas and
Israeli leaders to stop the violence.
The International Criminal Court has
been investigating possible Israeli
war crimes in Gaza. Recent reports cite
Israeli officials as worried that arrest
warrants may be imminent. On Friday, Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded,
saying — quote — "The threat to
seize the soldiers and officials of
the Middle East’s only democracy and the
world’s only Jewish state is outrageous."
Hamas leaders could also face warrants for
the horrific October 7 attacks. Neither
Israel nor the U.S. recognizes the ICC, but
other countries could arrest anyone with an
outstanding warrant. The State Department today
said any ruling from the ICC would not apply.
VEDANT PATEL, Principal Deputy State
Department Spokesperson: On this investigation,
our position is clear. We continue
to believe that the ICC does not
have jurisdiction over the Palestinian situation.
AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, thousands of Israelis
rallied in Tel Aviv calling for a hostage
release and cease-fire deal ahead of negotiators
from Israel and Hamas arriving in Cairo today.
The White House said President Biden
would call leaders from Qatar and Egypt
today. Hamas has released multiple
videos of hostages in the last week,
including Illan Siegel’s American father, Keith.
ILLAN SIEGEL (Daughter of Hamas Hostage):
Seeing my father today only emphasizes to
all of us how much we must reach a deal as
soon as possible and bring everyone home.
AMNA NAWAZ: Secretary of State Antony Blinken
returned to the Middle East today for his seventh
trip since the war began. At the World Economic
Forum in Saudi Arabia, he called on Hamas to act.
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. Secretary of State: Hamas
has before it a proposal that is extraordinarily,
extraordinarily generous on the
part of Israel. And in this moment,
the only thing standing between the
people of Gaza and a cease-fire is Hamas.
AMNA NAWAZ: At the same forum,
regional leaders stressed that peace
would only follow a two-state solution.
Saudi Foreign Minister Faisal Bin Farhan:
PRINCE FAISAL BIN FARHAN AL SAUD, Saudi
Foreign Minister: In order for us to be
able to talk about a sustainable pathway to
stability, to security, including for Israel,
we’re going to have to talk about a Palestinian
situation where the Palestinians have hope.
AMNA NAWAZ: At a meeting of
the Gulf Cooperation Council,
Blinken pledged to carry that message to Israel.
ANTONY BLINKEN: The most effective way to
address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza,
to alleviate the suffering of children, women,
and men, and to create space for a more just and
durable solution is to get a cease-fire and
hostages home. But we’re also not waiting on
the cease-fire to take the necessary steps
to meet the needs of civilians in Gaza.
AMNA NAWAZ: Palestinians in Gaza find
pockets of peace wherever they can.
For some sheltering in Deir al Balah, that
means a brief family respite at the beach,
hoping the waves will drown out
the sound of drones overheard.
Umm Malik Abd Rabbo brought her kids here today.
UMM MALIK ABD RABBO, Displaced Gazan (through
translator): Every time there’s a plane in the
sky, it frightens the kids here.
Although I came here to give the
children some semblance of safety,
fear is fear. Children get scared.
AMNA NAWAZ: Her husband, little Mayar’s
father, is still in Northern Gaza.
MAYAR ABD RABOO, Displaced Gazan (through
translator): I came to the beach because I
haven’t been here in seven months. I came to
have fun with my cousins, and my sister and
my brothers. I don’t feel safe and I hope
the war ends so I can go back to my dad.
AMNA NAWAZ: For now, there is safety on this sand.
But just miles away in Rafah, the war rages on.
The State Department announced today that five
units of the Israeli military were found to have
violated human rights in incidents before
the current war, and not in Gaza. The U.S.
says those violations are being addressed, and
will not affect U.S. weapon sales to Israel.
GEOFF BENNETT:
In the day’s other news: Ukraine appealed
for quick delivery of Western weapons as
it gave more ground in the east. The army
chief said Sunday that Ukrainian troops
pulled back from three villages, lacking
air defenses under heavy Russian fire.
In Kyiv, President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy met with NATO head Jens
Stoltenberg and warned that a new U.S. aid
package and other weapons can’t come soon enough.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President
(through translator): The Russian army is
now trying to take advantage of a situation when
we are waiting for supplies from our partners,
especially from the United States. And that
is exactly why the speed of deliveries means
stabilizing the front. Russia’s army is
preparing for further offensive actions.
GEOFF BENNETT: For his part,
NATO’s Stoltenberg criticized
alliance members for not delivering
what they have promised to Ukraine.
In Western Kenya, at least 45 people
died in flash floods early today after
torrential rain across the region.
More than 100 people were injured,
and scores more were missing. Floodwaters in the
Great Rift Valley region coated the area in mud,
wiping out homes and uprooting trees. Heavy
rain has inundated the area since mid-March.
Weeks of record heat are hitting extremes
across Asia. Temperatures have soared to
nearly 117 degrees in Myanmar and 111
in Thailand. And Cambodia has had its
hottest weather in 170 years. Today, in
the Philippines, authorities canceled
in-person classes for millions of public school
students, and rickshaw operators in Bangladesh
braved the sweltering temperatures,
taking breaks to rest between jobs.
SHAHEB ALI, Rickshaw Driver (through
translator): I have never experienced
such heat in my life. Yes, it should be hot, but
there would usually be gusts of wind and rain,
but it’s not happening this
time. People are suffering a lot.
GEOFF BENNETT: In neighboring India,
officials are predicting more heat
wave days than normal until June,
when the monsoon season sets in.
In Oklahoma, an extensive cleanup is under
way after weekend tornadoes killed four
people and injured at least 100. The
storms spread destruction across the
small town of Sulphur south of
Oklahoma City. Entire commercial
blocks crumbled in homes were blasted
into piles of bricks and wooden beams.
A federal trial started today in Hawaii over the
leak of jet fuel into Pearl Harbor’s groundwater.
The contamination came from an underground U.S.
military fuel tank and put thousands of people
at risk. Three lawsuits by military families
argue Navy officials knew the water was tainted,
but told people it was safe. The government
disputes whether it really caused health problems.
The FDA will start regulating new medical tests
developed by labs to see if they actually work.
The final rule announced today applies
to tests for everything from cancer to
COVID-19. It does not include existing
test products. Agency officials say the
rule is designed to — quote — "ensure
that important health care decisions are
made based on test results that patients
and health care providers can trust."
And on Wall Street, stocks edged higher to
start the week. The Dow Jones industrial
average gained 146 points to close at 38386.
The Nasdaq rose 55 points. The S&P 500 added 16.
And there is a new record in music. Taylor Swift
is now the first artist to occupy all 14 top spots
of the Billboard Hot 100 at the same time. They’re
all tracks from her new album, "The Tortured Poets
Department." Swift also set the previous record
two years ago, when she occupied the top 10 spots.
Still to come on the "NewsHour":
Tamara Keith and Amy Walter break
down the latest political headlines;
author David Sanger discusses his new book on
America’s new cold wars with China and Russia;
and we take an inside look at NPR’s long-running
"Tiny Desk" concert series with its new host.
Pro-Palestinian protests showed no signs
of letting up today across many
college and university campuses.
If anything, encampments and protests have
actually been growing. Universities handled
their respective situations differently, but
several schools are drawing a tougher line.
Columbia University said it started suspending
some students who stayed in encampments after
a deadline. State Troopers were called
in at the University of Texas at Austin,
and nearly 300 people were arrested
at other schools over the weekend.
Tensions again at a boiling point today,
with State Troopers arresting students at the
University of Texas at Austin after an encampment
went up. Meantime, at Columbia University,
students refused to leave their encampment.
It has been up for nearly two weeks.
SUDEA POLAT, Columbia University Student: We will
not be moved by these intimidation tactics. You
can see outside you now that the students are
mobilized. There’s hundreds of them here today.
GEOFF BENNETT: This morning, Columbia University
President Minouche Shafik delivered a deadline
to students: Either voluntarily end
the encampment or face suspension.
Shafik said Columbia was in danger of
violating Title VI civil rights laws.
"We must take into account the rights of
all members of our community," Shafik said
in a statement. "The encampment has created
an unwelcoming environment for many of our
Jewish students and faculty. External
actors have contributed to creating a
hostile environment that is unsafe for
everyone, including our neighbors."
And there were arrests at a number of
other schools in the past few days,
including at Virginia Tech, Washington University
in St. Louis, Arizona State, the University of
Georgia and Indiana University. New encampments
sprung up at Wesleyan and other campuses.
At some schools, like UCLA, there
were dueling demonstrations,
where supporters of Israel also turned out.
At other campuses, college officials said
the majority of those arrested over the
weekend were not students. At Arizona State,
for example, only 20 percent of
those arrested were students there.
In the meantime, a number of schools, including
Columbia, have said they will not divest from
Israel. Protesters have said they want to see
schools cut investments with Israeli companies
that may benefit from the war in Gaza. They’re
also demanding schools divest from military
weapons manufacturers and cut research and
academic ties with other Israeli universities.
MARIE SALEM, UCLA Student: We will accomplish
divestment. We are going to stay here until
that. Without divestment, the siege will not
end. We need to put pressure now. Historically,
this is how it has happened on many universities.
We are going to continue to push
for that, and we will not leave.
GEOFF BENNETT: We’re going to
get one of many perspectives
now on the student protesters’ demands of
divestment, what it is and how it works.
Charlie Eaton is assistant professor of
sociology at the University of California,
Merced. He’s also the author of the
book "Bankers in the Ivory Tower."
Thanks so much for being with us.
And we should say that the calls for
divestment vary in scope from school
to school, but on the specific matter
of divesting endowments from any company
linked to Israel or businesses that might
be profiting from the war, how realistic
is that for most major American colleges and
universities? What does it actually require?
CHARLIE EATON, Author, "Bankers in the Ivory
Tower: The Troubling Rise of Financiers in U.S.
Higher Education": Divestment is something
that’s technically very doable. There’s
hundreds of socially and environmentally
responsible investment managers out there,
that any endowment could shift its funds
into those socially and environmentally
responsible funds that have a range of
criteria that guide their investment.
So it’s a matter of a university finding
an investment manager whose investment
practices match the values and
principles of the community.
GEOFF BENNETT: Aren’t fiduciaries
of a university’s endowment,
aren’t they bound by a duty to
increase the endowment’s value,
which is a responsibility that’s unaffected
by outside social pressure or ideology?
CHARLIE EATON: Any endowment can be managed
to grow and to serve the university community
even while being managed in a way that’s
socially and environmentally responsible.
And that’s why many university endowments
already have social responsibility guidelines
for their endowment investments. The
case of for-profit prison divestment,
we have already seen at Columbia University,
for example. We have already seen fossil fuel
divestment from Columbia University and from the
University of California system, where I work.
So it’s something where there
is a precedence for doing this.
GEOFF BENNETT: Many major U.S. companies, like
Amazon, Coca-Cola, Microsoft, as I understand it,
are or have been invested in Israel.
These are the types of companies that
are likely to be included in the portfolios
of many American colleges and universities.
What is the impact on a college’s bottom
line if they remove these kinds of funds
from their investment portfolios, these
Fortune 500, Fortune 100 companies?
CHARLIE EATON: Yes, well, I’m not
in a position to say one way or
the other whether a given company’s
involvement in the Israeli economy
accords with principles of justice
or equity at a given university.
But I can say there are many, many other
assets that a school can invest in. There’s
no shortage of investment opportunities
in our global economy that are socially
responsible and can both grow the endowment
and align the university’s economic ties
to the larger economy in a way that fits
university values about equity and justice.
GEOFF BENNETT: A spokesperson for NYU said the
school is not considering Israeli divestment
in part because its $5.9 billion endowment
needs maximum returns and, this is a quote,
"to help the university fulfill its
research and educational mission."
What’s the big picture risk here?
CHARLIE EATON: The biggest risk here is that this
issue is opening fault lines
in the university community.
And there is a lot of concerns about freedom
of speech on campus, concerns about letting
the university’s values and principles
guide the university’s on-campus life,
but also how it’s related
to the larger economy. The
NYU endowment is going to be fine,
no matter what they decide to do.
There are plenty of corners of the global
economy and the U.S. economy where the
NYU endowment could be invested and yield
equitable returns. So I wouldn’t be worried
about investment returns. Instead, I think
universities need to be asking themselves,
what are our values? What are our
principles? And how do we apply
them in a consistent way where the entire
university community feels part of that?
GEOFF BENNETT: Is there a way to do that
without a university’s endowment taking a hit?
CHARLIE EATON: You look at Columbia University,
you look at the University of California
endowment, the University of California has
$150 billion in assets under management
across its endowment and pension funds.
It divested from fossil fuels in 2020.
The endowment is still doing fine. The
Columbia endowment is still doing fine.
So I think it’s possible to let justice
and equity also guide endowment investment
decisions without the endowment taking a hit.
GEOFF BENNETT: Charlie Eaton, assistant professor
of sociology at the University of California,
Merced, thanks for your time and
for your insights. We appreciate it.
CHARLIE EATON: Thanks.
AMNA NAWAZ: India has increasingly seen
its stature grow on the world stage.
Led by populist Hindu Prime
Minister Narendra Modi,
the world’s biggest democracy has grown its
economy and its geopolitical influence. But
an investigation by The Washington Post
adds new evidence to allegations that
India is also trying to murder some
of its critics, even on American soil.
William Brangham has more.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: According to The Post, on
the eve of Modi’s first state visit to America,
members of his government spy agency were
plotting to kill an American citizen in New York.
Sikh separatist leader Gurpatwant Singh
Pannun has been highly critical of Modi’s
government. And while the plot against
him was foiled by U.S. law enforcement,
it’s opened a window into just how
audacious the Indian government is becoming.
Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Greg Miller helped
break this story, and he joins us now from London.
Greg, thank you so much for being here.
Could you just tell us a little bit
more about this plot? Who were the
plotters? And tell us a little bit
more about who they were targeting.
GREG MILLER, National Security Correspondent,
The Washington Post: So the plotters are
operatives within the Indian intelligence service,
its spy agency, which is known as the Research
and Analysis Wing. Of course, the spy agency
is very closely controlled by Modi and his
inner circle and national security advisers.
So the targets are part of a broader
community, religious community of Sikhs,
who are regarded by the Modi government
as a threat, as a — as disloyal,
as enemies of the sort of Hindu nationalist
state that Modi is focused on building.
So the two targets that we spent our story
focused on were kind of leaders of an effort
to revive a largely dormant campaign to create
a separate state, a separate place for Sikhs
in Northern India. This was something
that sort of traces back to the 1980s,
when there was a lot of the — many thousands
of people were killed, but sort of went quiet
for many decades since then, but has
flared back up since Modi came to power.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: The idea of a foreign government
attempting to kill a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil,
I mean, the — I used the word audacity.
Does that seem like the right word to you?
How did they feel that they could
and should pull off such a thing?
GREG MILLER: Audacity is
probably an understatement here.
It’s remarkably brazen for the Indian
government to, one, sort of set a plot
like this in motion anywhere, let alone one that
was supposed to unfold in the United States, which
has some of the largest and most effective
security and surveillance agencies in the world.
Part of it is India seeing itself as a rising
power in a new era of global competition, entitled
to carry out operations it sees other governments
as having been doing for many, many years. But at
the same time, in this case, the attempt included
lots of — lots of really hard-to-understand
mistakes, tradecraft blunders that contributed
to the failure, thankfully, of this operation.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Your report details how one
official close to Modi likely knew and of — knew
of and/or sanctioned this operation. What does
your reporting tell about how high this goes?
GREG MILLER: Yes, I think that this is
a really important question. And I don’t
think that there are terribly clear answers. We
spent a lot of time interviewing U.S. officials,
Indian sources, Western — other
officials in Western governments.
And so I think that there is — as we say in the
story, U.S. spy agencies have assessed that Modi’s
national security adviser was probably aware
of these operations, if not — if he hadn’t
sanctioned them. But the agencies are much more
confident that the head of India’s spy service,
somebody named Samant Goel, was — had
actually authorized these operations.
So, if that’s accurate, these go very close
to the inner core of Modi’s inner circle.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: How has the
U.S. responded to this? I mean,
your report lays out this — the tension that the
Biden administration has of wanting to cultivate
India as a growing power, as a negotiating
partner, but also seemingly quite alarmed
at this brazen attempt at
an assassination U.S. soil.
GREG MILLER: This was a nightmare
situation for the Biden administration,
because, on the one hand, you have a very
grave violation of American sovereignty.
You have a foreign government plotting to kill a
Sikh activist, but somebody who is a U.S. citizen
on U.S. soil. And, at the same time, this plot is
traced to a country that the Biden administration
has spent three years trying to build closer ties
with, largely because of a concern about China.
And, as I said, this sort of shifting geopolitical
order has given India increased leverage in its
relationship with the United States. And so
you end up with a situation where literally,
at the same time the Biden administration
is welcoming the Indian prime minister
to the White House in an event that’s
designed to sort of cement closer ties,
the Indian spy agency is secretly issuing
final instructions for an assassination
that’s supposed to happen only a few
hundred miles away in New York City.
WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Greg Miller
of The Washington Post,
really tremendous piece of reporting.
Thank you so much for being here.
GREG MILLER: Thanks so much for having me.
AMNA NAWAZ: As protests of the war in
Gaza spread to more college campuses
across the country, the impact on the 2024
presidential race could be growing too,
just one of the stories to discuss
with our Politics Monday team.
That is Amy Walter of The Cook Political
Report With Amy Walter and Tamara Keith of NPR.
Great to see you both.
And let’s begin with those protests.
(CROSSTALK)
AMNA NAWAZ: Obviously, we have been
seeing them spread across college
campuses. We saw them outside the White
House Correspondents Dinner this weekend.
We’re seeing them in countries around the
world too, in Egypt and Jordan and France
and Australia. It’s not necessarily just
young voters in America among Democrats
or young voters of color. There’s some concern
expressed in a recent New York Times piece by
Wisconsin Congressman Mark Pocan that some of
his older and mostly white constituents there
in Wisconsin have been increasingly asking
about Biden’s approach to the war in Gaza.
So, Amy, walk us through this. I mean,
can President Biden meet their concerns?
And should he be more concerned about
this growing campus and other protests?
AMY WALTER, The Cook Political Report: Right.
So I do think that the more
attention that is being paid to,
first let’s start with college campuses…
AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.
AMY WALTER: … and, as you pointed out,
is now going everywhere, is also
a little bit of a Rorschach test.
If you are a progressive person, if you’re
a more liberal-leaning person, you see those
protests and you think, oh, OK, these are people
standing up for the rights of the oppressed,
and this is a war that is now taking the lives
of innocent people, and we have to protest that.
If you’re a conservative, you look at it
and say, this is chaos. This is — there’s
disorder everywhere. These schools need to crack
down on these encampments. And so I don’t know,
though, if that more broadly means that this
issue itself is a more salient voting issue.
And that’s the real — that’s sort of
the real question here, in the sense of,
is it something that is uniting liberals and
conservatives over the approach to these issues,
yes, or how maybe the framework in which
they see this issue? They are united on that.
What it actually means for how
they vote. So, for example,
the most recent CNN poll found that among people
who say they are supporting Joe Biden right now,
44 percent of them disagree or dislike
the way he’s handling the situation.
AMNA NAWAZ: What does your reporting show, Tam?
TAMARA KEITH, National Public Radio: Well, the
Biden White House and the Biden campaign are in
something of a bind, because there’s
not a lot of wiggle room on policy.
These protests have not pushed Biden to
change his policy really in any way. He is
continuing — he had a call with Benjamin
Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel,
yesterday, where he continued to apply pressure
to Netanyahu to help resolve some of the very
serious humanitarian challenges in Gaza, to open
up new humanitarian aid routes and otherwise.
He’s putting as much pressure as he can. He’s
been talking to various world leaders trying
to get a cease-fire. Short of the cease-fire
happening and the hostages being released,
there’s not a lot of wiggle room for Biden.
He’s pretty stuck. And he’s Joe Biden.
And he does not appear to have any desire to move
toward the more progressive wing of his party,
particularly because there are real divisions
about these protests and whether they’re
effective and also whether the rhetoric of
the protesters has moved too far to the left,
to the point of antisemitism,
that will cause backlash.
AMNA NAWAZ: In the meantime, here is what
the matchup looks like between President
Biden and former President Trump. This is a
moment in time captured in a poll from CNN.
Right now, you have Mr. Trump leading President
Biden 49-43. And Republicans continue
to line up behind Mr. Trump, right?
TAMARA KEITH: Yes.
AMNA NAWAZ: You have former challenger Ron
DeSantis who met with him at his
Florida estate over the weekend.
His former Attorney General Bill Barr,
who has testified to Trump’s efforts to
overturn legitimate election,
had this to say this weekend:
WILLIAM BARR, Former U.S. Attorney General:
If faced with a choice between two people,
neither of which I think should be president, I
feel it’s my duty to pick the person who I think
would do the least damage to the country. And
I think Trump would do less damage than Biden.
AMNA NAWAZ: That follows New Hampshire Governor
Chris Sununu, who once told Judy Woodruff on
this set that voting for Trump is like —
quote — "throwing gasoline on a firework."
Here’s what he had to say
in a recent exchange on ABC.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "This Week" Anchor: You
support him for president even if he’s convicted
in classified documents. You support him for
president even though you believe he contributed
to an insurrection. You support him for president
even though you believe he’s lying about the
last election. You support him for president
even if he’s convicted in the Manhattan case.
I just want to say, the answer
to that is yes, correct?
GOV. CHRIS SUNUNU (R-NH): Yes,
me and 51 percent of America.
AMNA NAWAZ: Tam, other than Liz Cheney,
there’s really no part of the party
that isn’t behind him right now.
TAMARA KEITH: Is that right? Well, Nikki
Haley hasn’t actually said anything. She
hasn’t yet endorsed Trump. Ron DeSantis endorsed
Trump as soon as he dropped out of the race.
And I do think it is interesting to continue
to watch Nikki Haley voters and what happens
with them. But we have been saying all along that
Republicans, especially professional Republicans
who want to continue to be professional
Republicans, they’re going to fall in line.
The question is whether some of these voters
who maybe didn’t vote for Trump in 2020,
whether there’s any chance at all he
could bring them back. And that seems
somewhat less likely. The Biden campaign is
putting real money and certainly targeted
advertising behind sending ads in
— digital ads into communities
where Nikki Haley did surprisingly well in
primaries weeks after she had dropped out.
And they’re using tape of former President Trump
saying, ah, Nikki Haley voters, I don’t need them.
AMNA NAWAZ: Can they be persuaded,
those four were Nikki Haley voters?
AMY WALTER: What we don’t know is how
many of them are already Biden 2020
voters. Where she did best are in some of
the places where Biden also did the best.
But it comes down to this issue and what
these polls are also showing, Amna, which is,
voters don’t necessarily like Donald Trump anymore
than they did back in 2020, but they feel a lot
better about his presidency than they did in
2020. Or, actually, let me put it this way. They
feel a lot better about his handling of pretty
much every issue than they do about Joe Biden.
That wasn’t true back in 2020. So there is
something of this nostalgia for the presidency,
even though not necessarily for the person.
AMNA NAWAZ: In the meantime, we know that his
hush money trial in New York
will pick back up tomorrow.
And it’s worth pointing out we now have numbers
from the FEC filings from Save America PAC,
which is his primary fund-raising and political
spending arms since he left office. They show
this. In March alone, this pack spent nearly
$3.6 million Mr. Trump’s legal fees alone.
That is roughly the same amount that they spent on
his presidential campaign in the month of March.
Tam, how do you look at those numbers right now?
Looks like his supporters are happy
to continue to pay those legal fees?
TAMARA KEITH: His fund-raising has not
been as brisk as I think his campaign
would like or his PAC would like. And
they are working to turn that around.
But in the meantime, yes, a lot of money
is going to legal fees. Additionally,
he’s just not doing a lot of events. Now,
I know he’s in court three to four days a
week, but even when he’s not been in court,
he hasn’t been having events. That is changing
this week. Wednesday, he has some rallies.
But he just, since Super Tuesday, has not been
campaigning in a way that you would expect
from someone who’s turning towards the general
election. And that also goes to television ads,
where the Biden campaign is just vastly
outspending Trump. Now, what they say,
what the Trump campaign says is, he earns media.
He just gets it. He doesn’t have to pay for it.
AMNA NAWAZ: He does get a lot of attention, right?
AMY WALTER: He does.
And this is where — this is what Biden is
actually hoping, is that the media attention
on the trial helps Biden, in that it reminds
those voters who may have some nostalgia for,
well, the economy was better back in 2020, or
I wasn’t as worried about the border in 2020,
that they go, oh, right, these are the
things that I didn’t like about Donald Trump.
If that focus continues while he’s on trial,
to the degree that it is not televised,
I think, is a problem for the
Biden campaign in that strategy,
right, because they — he’s — as we saw in
those polls, he’s running behind right now.
If you are the Biden campaign, you need to make
this a referendum on Trump more than anything.
And the only way you do that is if there’s a
whole lot of attention the person who’s not
the president of the United States. And that’s
very hard to get that level of attention when
you’re not the president, unless you’re a former
president and happen to be in criminal court.
AMNA NAWAZ: Amy Walter, Tamara Keith, always
good to see you both. Thank you so much.
AMY WALTER: Thank you.
TAMARA KEITH: You’re welcome.
GEOFF BENNETT: On Christmas Day 1991, the
Soviet Union ceased to exist and with it
the Cold War. At the same time, China was amid
its rapid expansion and opening to the world.
Now times have changed. Russia is again
a principal American adversary now joined
by a much stronger competitor, China. The
challenge presented by both nations and the
missteps made by U.S. presidents in dealing with
both along the way is the subject of a new book.
Here’s Nick Schifrin.
NICK SCHIFRIN: After the end of the Cold War,
successive presidents and administrations
considered China an economic partner who
should be integrated into the West. And they
tried repeatedly for resets with Russia.
Today, there’s bipartisan consensus that China is
the U.S.’ most important long-term challenge. And
Russia is trying to redraw the borders of
Europe, while hacking into U.S. government
agencies and promising no-limits cooperation
with Beijing. That transformation of what the
U.S. calls great power competition is the story
told in the book "New Cold Wars: China’s Rise,
Russia’s Invasion, and America’s Struggle to
Defend the West" The New York Times’ David Sanger.
David, thanks so much. Pleasure to
have you back on the "NewsHour."
DAVID SANGER, Author, "New Cold Wars:
China’s Rise, Russia’s Invasion,
and America’s Struggle to Defend the
West": Great to be with you, Nick.
NICK SCHIFRIN: How, as you write, did bipartisan
faith in globalization become — quote — what
you call "the fantasy era" of
21st century foreign policy?
DAVID SANGER: After the fall of the Berlin Wall,
there was just an assumption, a flawed
assumption, clearly, that Russia and China,
each for their own very different reasons,
would pursue their economic interests.
And the theory was that this was such
an overwhelming imperative for both
countries that it would override China’s
interest in Taiwan. Russia would set aside,
they’d make a lot of noise about Ukraine,
but they wouldn’t really do anything.
And every element of that assumption
turned out to be wrong. And when you
think about sort of the great
either intelligence failures
or the great wishful thinking of the
past 30 years, that was at the core.
NICK SCHIFRIN: You point out that the U.S.
and European leaders — quote — "projected
U.S. and European thinking
on authoritarian regimes."
How so?
DAVID SANGER: Well, we assumed that what they
wanted was more interchange with the West,
so that they would get more trade with the West.
And, of course, that runs directly contrary to
authoritarian thinking. So there was Bill Clinton,
when he would go to Beijing university and tell
the students, the Internet will set you free,
right, that it will undercut the Communist
Party. He got it completely wrong.
And, by the way, I bought into that
argument when he was making it. Similar
problem with Russia. President Bush is
floating down the Neva River outside St.
Petersburg on a sort of party boat
with Putin, Putin’s then-wife with
Laura Bush. And they’re all talking about
how Russia will join the European Union,
how one day it might join NATO, the alliance
created to contain the old Soviet Union.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The mistakes that you
point out, not only just decades ago,
strategic key misperceptions that the U.S.
had, but also after a key moment, 2014,
of course, when Russia invaded
and annexed Ukrainian Crimea.
And you write about — quote — "The West’s
failure to grapple with the new reality."
It was almost as if the U.S. and its
NATO allies were collectively flying
on autopilot, assuming that small course
corrections would safely land the plane.
Explain that.
DAVID SANGER: That was, I think,
in many ways the most egregious example
of the wishful thinking I referred to.
So Putin went to the Munich Security
Conference in 2007 and said:
There are parts of mother Russia
that need to come back into the fold.
And we pretty much ignored him and said,
yes, he’s making a lot of noise for people
at home. Seven years later, he took Crimea and, of
course, the Donbass. President Obama did not want
to challenge him. He said, I’m not going to go to
war for a Russian-speaking former part of Russia.
And, meanwhile, the U.S. didn’t even
name the Russians as the aggressor in
cyberattacks on the White House, the Joint
Chiefs of Staff, the State Department. And
so the message that Putin got was,
the U.S. will tolerate this stuff.
And a year after he took
Crimea, the German chancellor,
Angela Merkel, signed the Nord Stream
2 pipeline agreement with him. Well,
that’s where things were until the weekend
before they invaded all of Ukraine in 2022.
NICK SCHIFRIN: Which brings us to today’s policies
on Russia, and let’s start there in Ukraine.
What is the Pit in Germany
and what is Project Maven
and how did the U.S. share a version with Ukraine?
DAVID SANGER: The Pit is a place. It’s an
intelligence-sharing operation between the U.S.,
the British, and the Ukrainians, although
they go through this sort of odd dance
because President Biden, in his effort to keep the
U.S. from being a direct participant in the war,
has mandated that the United States could not
give exact targeting data to the Ukrainians.
So, in the Pit, they sort of say,
well, kind of look generally over here,
or we think there’s interesting activity here.
Project Maven is a project for integrating
all of this data. It’s a way of seeing what
the Pentagon calls a single plate of glass,
all of what the military activity is of
the enemy and also of your own forces.
And what’s fascinating about it
is, it’s the war against Russia in
Ukraine that has been the U.S. effort to
battle-test this and other technologies.
NICK SCHIFRIN: And when it comes to the
Biden administration’s policies on China,
you point out many of the measures that were
dismissed by Trump’s critics at the time as
hawkish or ad hoc or fearmongering would end
up repackaged and carried into the Biden years.
How much continuity has there been?
DAVID SANGER: None of the Trump era tariffs on
China have been lifted. I think you have got to
give credit to President Biden’s team for putting
this into a bigger strategy of shifting forces
to the Indo-Pacific, of building up
the American semiconductor industry,
although there were elements of that
starting in the Trump era, so that we
are not so dependent on those chips from Taiwan
being produced 100 miles off the Chinese coast.
But, certainly, there were elements, including
banning Huawei, the Chinese telecoms company,
that you saw in the Trump administration.
NICK SCHIFRIN: And finally, David, the book
title, "New Cold Wars," as you point out,
China is much more integrated in and integral to
the world economy than the Soviet Union ever was.
Why do you see these as new cold wars?
DAVID SANGER: The S in the
title is important, Nick,
because one of the differences from the old
Cold War to what we’re in now is that we have
the dynamic of Russia and China operating
together, as you suggested at the opening.
That never happened in the old Cold
War. That was exactly what Nixon and
Kissinger were trying to prevent with
the opening to China. Now, of course,
there is a partnership without limits, or that’s
what Xi Jinping and President Putin called it. If,
in fact, China and Russia can find
something that is closer to an alliance,
then we’re going to be back in the hardened
lines of the old Cold War, rather than this
view of a globalized, borderless world that
we had a bit of a pipe dream 30 years ago.
NICK SCHIFRIN: The book is the
"New Cold Wars: China’s Rise,
Russia’s Invasion, and America’s
Struggle to Defend the West."
David Sanger of The New York Times,
thank you very much, as always.
DAVID SANGER: Thank you, Nick.
GEOFF BENNETT: It’s a tiny desk
that’s become a huge draw for
some of the world’s most famous musicians.
I worked at NPR many years ago and recently
returned to talk to the new host of the
long-running concert series about why this
unique format continues to resonate with so many.
It’s part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.
So this is the tiny desk.
BOBBY CARTER, Host, "Tiny Desk": This is the tiny
desk. And it’s a tiny desk. It’s a
tiny space. It’s a tiny everything.
GEOFF BENNETT: Bobby Carter’s new job is a
big one, overseeing NPR’s tiny desk concerts.
Launched in 2008, this wildly popular series
has racked up billions of views on YouTube,
along the way convincing some of music’s
biggest names to play a stage like no other.
TAYLOR SWIFT, Musician: I just decided
to kind of take this as an opportunity
to show you guys how the songs
sounded when I first wrote them.
GEOFF BENNETT: These intimate, stripped-down
performances offer major stars like Taylor Swift
the chance to showcase their talents
in ways audiences rarely get to see.
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT: She stepped
behind the tiny desk in 2019.
T-PAIN, Musician: This is weird as hell for me.
GEOFF BENNETT: Or when rapper and autotune pioneer
T-Pain showcased his real
voice five years earlier.
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT: In all, more than 1,000 artists
have performed here, including Alicia Keys.
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT: And some you have maybe never heard
of, like Chicago-based marching band Mucca Pazza,
who somehow fit more than 20
musicians behind the tiny desk.
The performances happen in front of an audience
made up of mostly NPR staffers inside
its Washington, D.C., headquarters.
We should say this really is an office
space. This is NPR’s office space.
BOBBY CARTER: You would be surprised how many
people don’t realize that. So we forewarn them.
You’re walking into a regular office. This
is just a desk. The acoustics aren’t great.
So, rehearse, rehearse,
rehearse because it’s different.
Yes. And then go straight into it.
GEOFF BENNETT: Carter leads a
team of producers, videographers,
and sound engineers who film performances
about three times a week, including a recent
one with jazz pianist Bob James, who played
alongside D.J. Jazzy Jeff rapper Talib Kweli.
Are the rules still the same for people
who want to perform at "Tiny Desk"?
BOBBY CARTER: Yes. We always let them
know that this is unlike what they’re used
to doing on stage. There are no bells and
whistles and tricks. What you hear and
what you see is what you get. But intimacy
is still the key. That won’t ever change.
GEOFF BENNETT: But change did
come for tiny desk in October,
when longtime director and series
co-founder Bob Boilen retired.
BOBBY CARTER: When Talib starts rapping,
everybody just comes down just a tad.
GEOFF BENNETT: Bobby Carter, who’s
been at NPR for 24 years and who’s
been producing these concerts for
a decade, was promoted last month.
How do you see "Tiny Desk"
evolving under your leadership?
BOBBY CARTER: We can continue to evolve
by just not touching this. Of course,
we can grow in many ways, but it’s more so, how
do we maintain the essence of what we’re doing?
GEOFF BENNETT: That has always been a challenge,
but never more so than during
the pandemic, Carter says.
As concert venues across the country, including
the "Tiny Desk," shut down, he worried he might
soon be out of a job. But several artists,
including many from around the world, like
British pop star Dua Lipa, and Spanish singer C.
Tangana came to the rescue, filming home concerts.
BOBBY CARTER: Those home shows, not only did they
help us sustain, but it really helped us grow.
GEOFF BENNETT: Now back in person, the tiny
desk looks and feels as cluttered as ever.
BOBBY CARTER: Justin Timberlake
recently left his megaphone.
GEOFF BENNETT: In large part, Carter says,
because of what artists, like rapper
Juvenile leave behind after they perform.
BOBBY CARTER: Juvenile’s Juvie
Juice sip, plenty of those.
GEOFF BENNETT: Right.
BOBBY CARTER: Pretty much everything
you see back here has a story.
Megan Thee Stallion left her
stallion. Gary Clark Jr.’s sweat rag.
GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.
BOBBY CARTER: Our centerpiece for the whole desk
is that brick bear. Bob Weir
from The Grateful Dead left.
GEOFF BENNETT: The most recent addition,
a cue card from "Saturday Night
Live"’s spoof of the series.
(SINGING)
ACTOR: Guys. Hi, yes, can we be
quiet please? Some of us are working.
(LAUGHTER)
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT: Artists have around 15
to 20 minutes to express themselves as
they wish in a space that holds only 200 people.
MAN: I think I’m going to need some help again.
GEOFF BENNETT: And Carter says the planning
for these concerts can be months in the making,
especially before the series welcomed
legendary R&B singer Babyface last year.
BOBBY CARTER: Usually, we’re just talking to
the teams, the representatives, the producer.
His assistant got on and said: "Hey, we
got Babyface right here ready to talk."
I’m like: "What, bro?"
(LAUGHTER)
BOBBY CARTER: He was like: "Hey, I’m going
to get behind the desk. I’m going to have
three background singers, all of which you
know. And I’m going to get behind the desk,
and I’m going to run through all the hits."
That show was a flex, but also he flexed
on the time because he went way over,
but who the hell is going
to tell Babyface to stop?
MAN: Back again, "Tiny Desk."
GEOFF BENNETT: "Tiny Desk" has also long
spotlighted up-and-coming artists. Since 2014,
the series has hosted the Tiny Desk Contest,
which invites unsigned musicians to perform
original songs at a desk of their choosing.
Winners like Gaelynn Lea have a chance
to play their own "Tiny Desk" concerts.
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT:
And some like Tank and the Bangas, who won the
contest in 2017, have gone on to find commercial
success. The New Orleans band was nominated for
a Grammy as best new artist two years later.
(SINGING)
GEOFF BENNETT: But even some of
the biggest stars, like Usher,
have used the tiny desk to reach new audiences.
I’m convinced that you can draw a line between
Usher’s resurgence and him booking that Super Bowl
halftime show to his meme-making
performance here at "Tiny Desk."
BOBBY CARTER: Near 100 percent. I
always say, someone like an Usher,
they don’t necessarily need us.
He’s Usher at the end of the day,
but this definitely helped put
some fire under what was going on.
GEOFF BENNETT: Now 16 years after the first "Tiny
Desk," Carter says he still respects
any artist willing to perform here.
BOBBY CARTER: I salute each and
every artist who’s willing to
be that vulnerable behind the
desk, because it is not easy.
GEOFF BENNETT: Who’s on your personal wish list?
BOBBY CARTER: Oh, God, where’s the camera?
I’m talking to you, Sade.
GEOFF BENNETT: Wow.
BOBBY CARTER: I’m talking to you, Beyonce
and Bruce Springsteen and Kendrick Lamar.
And that’s why I’m so excited.
I’m still excited about this,
because there are so many artists who
haven’t taken that shot at this yet.
GEOFF BENNETT: Bobby Carter,
congratulations on your new role and
continued success with "Tiny Desk."
BOBBY CARTER: It’s good to see you back here, G.
(LAUGHTER)
GEOFF BENNETT: It’s good to be back.
BOBBY CARTER: Yes, sir.
AMNA NAWAZ:
The words Cartier and bargain are almost never
said in the same breath. But the legendary French
jeweler has been forced to extend an enormous
discount to one man after he claimed an error
allowed him to buy two pairs of earrings for just
$28 that were supposed to sell for nearly $28,000.
Ellie Pitt of Independent
Television News has more.
LEYLA HAYES: Designer jewelry doesn’t come cheap,
unless, of course, you find it online
for much lower than it should be.
That’s what happened to Rogelio Villarreal,
who was browsing Cartier’s Web site when he
started these diamond-encrusted earrings for
237 Mexican pesos. That’s around 11 British
pounds. He bought two pairs, who wouldn’t,
before the price was quickly corrected to
237,000 pesos, or just over 11,000 pounds.
According to Rogelio, Cartier then tried to back
out of the deal, but he asked Mexico’s Consumer
Protection Agency to get involved, and they
ruled in his favor. So how did he do it? Well,
Mexican consumer law requires businesses to
sell their products at their listed price.
If they don’t, customers can file a complaint
and send proof that they bought it at that price,
but haven’t received it. At
this Central London jeweler’s,
they say there’s no doubt he got a bargain.
DANIEL CLUNN, Harmony Jewels: You
are paying for the brand name,
you know? Like when you walk into somewhere
and you leave with a Cartier ring,
there’s that brand history. You’re paying a
little bit for prestige. I mean, he got very
lucky. I’d like to see his lottery winnings as
well, because I wish I had a chance like that.
LEYLA HAYES: Cartier haven’t commented, but
the earrings finally arrived at a discount
of around 29,500 pounds. And Rogelio
was more than happy to show them off.
AMNA NAWAZ: And that was Leyla Hayes
reporting from Independent Television News.
GEOFF BENNETT: Talk about a discount.
AMNA NAWAZ: Right?
GEOFF BENNETT: All right, online right now,
spring is about to become very noisy
for many people across the country.
Up to a trillion, a trillion cicadas
are expected to emerge in parts of the
Midwest and South. That’s on
our Instagram page right now.
AMNA NAWAZ: And join us again back here
tomorrow night, when we talk to college
student journalists about the protests
against the war in Gaza on their campuses.
And that is the "NewsHour"
for tonight. I’m Amna Nawaz.
GEOFF BENNETT: And I’m Geoff Bennett.
For all of us here at the "PBS NewsHour,"
thanks for joining us and have a great evening.
Monday on the NewsHour, Hamas considers the latest cease-fire proposal as Israeli leaders brace for potential International Criminal Court arrest warrants. With protests against the war in Gaza spreading to more college campuses, we take a look at student demands for divestment from Israel. Plus, the Indian government is accused of attempting to assassinate Sikh activists on U.S. soil.
WATCH TODAY’S SEGMENTS
Israeli barrage continues as cease-fire negotiations resume
News Wrap: At least 45 killed by flooding in western Kenya
Colleges face challenge with demands for Israeli divestment
India accused of trying to kill Sikh activists in U.S.
Tamara Keith and Amy Walter on Gaza protests hurting Biden
‘New Cold Wars’ examines U.S. struggle with China and Russia
‘Tiny Desk’ host reveals what’s next for the popular series
Cartier mishap helps man snag $28,000 earrings for $28
Subscribe:
Newsletters: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/subscribe
PBS NewsHour podcasts: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/podcasts
Stream your PBS favorites with the PBS app: https://to.pbs.org/2Jb8twG
Find more from PBS NewsHour at https://www.pbs.org/newshour
Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://bit.ly/2HfsCD6
Follow us:
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pbsnews
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/newshour
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/newshour
Facebook: http://www.pbs.org/newshour
03:04 – War in the Holy Land
08:11 – News Wrap
12:20 – Protests on Campus
20:31 – Assassination Allegations
26:57 – Politics Monday
36:00 – New Cold Wars
44:19 – Tiny Desk Concerts
52:03 – On Sale