On the property disclosure, the seller checked off "no" on the question about whether there's asbestos. But the siding of the house is obviously asbestos. You might be saying "well, you can't prove the seller knew that." Actually, I can! The seller left out the inspection report from when she bought the house 10 years ago. I took photos of every page, and it clearly states in the report that the siding is asbestos cement. In other words, she knew or should have known but falsely said the property has no asbestos anyway.
Do I use this to my advantage and maybe be a bit of a jerk to get something out of it? Or just let it go? I am under contract and supposed to close in January. I waived an inspection contingency with my bid because I lost several houses to people waiving inspection (trust when I say in my market, if you want a desirable house, you are stuck waiving contingency to make your offer competitive). That of course makes me a little nervous. Could I leverage this to get an inspection? Or maybe get the price reduced? I also switched my offer from financed to cash after we were under contract, which I believe is better for the seller. Should I try to get some concessions?
Seller lied on disclosure – use it to my advantage or let it go?
byu/FalafelBall inRealEstate
Posted by FalafelBall
35 Comments
You cannot prove that the seller actually read their original inspection report. She Should have known and likely does know but you have no way of proving it.
unless it is tested for asbestos, no one knows if it’s absolutely asbestos.
After that, it sounds like you’re in a very competitive market, and the Seller would have no issue correcting the disclosure and getting a new offer. And you saw the house and the siding, and so did all those other buyers (in theory, maybe a few had less-qualified agents who didn’t point it out).
I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that this makes you concerned about the rest of the disclosures and that you want to add an inspection.
However, just because you want to do so doesn’t mean they have to say yes. They may just terminate at that point. Until you actually purchase the home, you have no damages to sue for, so it’s not like you can really threaten them with anything. And if the market where you’re at is as hot as you say, they probably won’t have any trouble finding another buyer and they might take that chance.
How did you get access to the old inspection report?
Maybe it wasn’t a lie. Maybe they didn’t remember or didn’t even read it. Or just checked the wrong box by mistake. They left the report out for public reading, so they did provide truthful information. What exactly do you want to get?
When did you take photos of the inspection report? Prior to your offer?
An attorney would know better but what recourse would you have if you knew about the asbestos and still put in an offer? Or can you prove that the seller saw the asbestos notated?
The only leverage you have in this situation is walking away from the deal and getting your Earnest Money back. You can ask for a concession based on the report, they can chose to say no. The inspection gives you grounds to renegotiate price or remediation, not necessarily additional leverage. Accusing people of lying and being a jerk during negotiations isn’t always the best tactic.
This isn’t as big of a gotya as you might think. As long as you aren’t grinding the panels they are safe. If you talked to a remediation company they would tell you to just keep in in place.
You’re looking for a gotcha, someone trying to get something for nothing. Sellers provided information about the asbestos in the inspection report they provided. Even legally, you usually can’t get someone on a gotcha like checking the wrong box. I think you have no legal case and the seller might decide they don’t want to deal with you at all.
but you waived inspection. what old house doesn’t have asbestos? aren’t these issues what you were waiving?
What state are you in?
If you don’t have an inspection contingency, and they supplied these disclosures before you offered, then I don’t see what leg you’d have to stand on as far as getting concessions. The question before the checkbox is likely “are you (seller) aware of…” it’s not a guarantee that those things are there or not there. Not everyone is paranoid about asbestos and it’s entirely reasonable to think that the seller didn’t remember it from the inspection 10 years ago.
The time to negotiate was before you switched to cash from financed. Then you would have had a “carrot” to dangle along with the asbestos “stick”.
Now that you know you have to evaluate the value of the house to you. The cost of remediation can be significant, it is a financial liability
Pursuing any non-disclosure claim at this point is just toxicity.
However , highlighting to the agent it was not disclosed is key to ensure the disclosure document is updated.
I am an advocate for using agents, but not revising disclosures for items that were discovered in process, or as reasons for previous contracts falling through is one of the more common unscrupulous behaviors in the business.
Unless a substance is tested, then the seller doesn’t legally know if asbestos is present.
“Obviously asbestos”.
You don’t know this. If asbestos was visible to the eye we wouldn’t need labs.
Wait- you waived inspection? What are you trying to angle for here?
They made a mistake- intentionally- who knows. But your perception of leverage is not aligned to the process in front of you.
You obviously knew if you took pictures. You still chose to go under contract. If I were the seller I’d tell you to fuck off and sell it to the next person in line.
If the asbestos is outside, it’s not a concern. Just paint over it. And by the way, many sellers forget things that they were made aware of when they bought their house 10 years ago.
Did you know it was asbestos tiles? If so, don’t be a Richard.
If you have the report it was disclosed.
I had a buyer get an inspection where the inspector flagged the siding as asbestos. Had an abatement company come out, they tested it, it wasn’t asbestos.
I do not know what leverage you think you have hear except terminating and getting your EMD refunded. You can ask for whatever you want, but you have conceded your market is m=competitive, it is likely the seller will just let you go and get another buyer.
You can just…. Not buy the house.
You’re not going in for some kind of self-righteous kill on price if that’s what you’ve got in mind.
Latent defects undisclosed for whatever reason I believe can void a contract. This can be used as leverage for an inspection or price change.
Leave it be if you want house but have your agent ask Seller to correct that section & re-verify the rest of disclosure is accurate with initial & date
If you waived inspection and already have a signed contract how are you going to renegotiate?
How are you going to use it to your advantage? In order to demand anything, you have to provide proof/facts. You have to get inspection done and have tested for asbestos. This is just stupid.
🤣🤣🤣 this has to be a joke
Asbestos outside can’t hurt you. It’s when it sheds particles inside that it’s a danger.
Asbestos exterior siding is frequently indistinguishable from cedar siding. maybe she got it tested and it wasn’t asbestos. Maybe her Uncle Fred came over & said “Not to worry, honey, that’s not asbestos” Maybe she thinks the only place asbestos can be is in popcorn ceilings. Maybe she has no ide what asbestos is. Maybe she didnt read the inspection when she bought the house 10 years ago. Maybe she did read it and forgot.
Asbestos siding is not a danger unless you plan to remove it. Same with asbestos tiles etc. It’s only a threat if you break it up where you’d breathe in the particles.
That said, how would you feel about yourself for pulling a stunt like this if it truly doesn’t matter?
If you have the old report proving they knew, that’s a clear disclosure violation. I had a similar issue with a roof leak the seller hid. You should definitely push for a price credit or at least a specialized inspection before closing. Don’t let them off the hook for lying.
Just let it go. It’s not worth it. And it’s not hazardous unless you agitate it and breathe the dust. When you need to update the siding you will have to deal with it. My parents had this siding and the guy doing the house said, here are some bags, Don’t break it up, just take the rest down and put it in the bags, and take it to the landfill.
You should have it tested if you’re worried. If it comes back as asbestos, that might be a biggest material issue to come back to the table to negotiate. Usually waiving inspections just means you wont try to renegotiate for most things you find but if its big enough, theres no way you could’ve known before, and the ask isnt crazy, sellers will and do negotiate to get the deal done.
If they left the inspection report for you, they weren’t hiding anything on the disclosure. Most sellers dont know much about their home except that they lived there and most appliances work.
Who cares? Consider yourself lucky.
I lived in a house for 20 years that had old Hardi brand asbestos siding from the 1960s. Properly installed, it is a fantastic siding product that can last for a century. Modern cement-fiber siding is the best available today, but it contains fibers that can absorb water. Asbestos does not absorb water. Nothing holds paint as well and looks as good after 40 years. Paint it with 100% acrylic based paint and you may never need to paint it again. As long as the asbestos can be sealed with paint, it will last forever.
Inconsistencies exist in disclosures all the time due to poor memory and/or the seller not actually understanding the materials or questions. The fact they provided the previous disclosure for you is still a disclosure. If it was provided after you were under contract, it may be worth raising a stink about and asking for some credits. If it was prior to offering, I don’t think you have much leverage. The worst they can do is say no, but it sounds like you’re in a competitive market, so if they have others available who would not care, you threatening to cancel over it won’t hold a lot of water. If my client wanted me to feel it out, I would reach out to the sellers agent and point out the inconsistency, play up the urgency of the replacement a bit, and see how amicable they would be to a credit that would be similar to the amount of money they’d potentially blow having to go back on the market and delay closing another month. If they dug their heels in, it would be up to the buyer to decide if they wanted to deal with it or not.
When my clients want to waive an inspection to be competitive, we talk about what the most expensive repairs could potentially be on the home, and the anticipated timeline of major repairs, so they kind of know the worst case scenario as far as question marks that exist after closing. If you’re in the position to be able to finance an unexpected significant repair, even if it would not be ideal, then you have a safeguard against the risk taken. Unless the exterior is failing and in need of immediate replacement, having material that requires extra abatement and expense doesn’t really affect your overall value in a hot market (where the age of construction is such that those materials are common).
Asbestos siding is generally safe unless it’s damaged or disturbed (for example, pulling it off).
If the seller provided a copy of the old inspection report that said there was asbestos siding then they absolutely disclosed it.
You lost everyone at “waived inspection” uhhhhh nobody does that.