It’s a massive red flag because this demographic usually acts as the economy’s safety net. We’re seeing a real disconnect where the official data looks fine on paper, but the actual ‘on the ground’ reality for white-collar roles has become incredibly stagnant. Between the hiring freezes and the uncertainty around how AI is reshaping middle management, even high earners are starting to play defense with their spending. If the people who usually drive discretionary growth are losing faith, the ‘soft landing’ narrative becomes a lot harder to justify.
Eclipse434343 on
Wait you’re telling me that the continual layoffs from s&p500 firms even though they constantly announce record profits shouldn’t instill confidence in the white collar job market?
One_Prior_1338 on
Not surprising. My father made $70k+ in 1999 as a cop. FIL made $90k as a factory worker. $52k then is equivalent to $100k today. Maths don’t math.
Forward-Distance-398 on
Consumer confidence goes down, recession will sets in.
No amount of lower interest rate is going to get people to taking on more debt, when they are unsure about their jobs/income source.
AI/Offshoring decimating 100k jobs one at a time is going to be the cherry on the top.
xxShathanxx on
I agree with Michael novogratz we are in a new gilded age. I think like him it takes time before reforms are made to make it better. What’s interesting about the last gilded age is it was brought by industrialization. I think the catalyst to the new gilded age was digitization.
DustShallEatTheDays on
It honestly doesn’t matter how much money I make if my job can vanish at any second, and I know from fairly recent experience it can take months to years to find a role that even approaches my previous salary or isn’t a big step down.
My household income looks fine on paper, but we are saving like crazy because it could be gone at any time, and monthly non-discretionary expenses like rent and food and medical are so high that no amount of being frugal will get us through it without relying on savings. And that’s if one of us loses a job. If we both do at the same time (happened in 2023) we just bleed savings. I can’t be the only one saving up for the next layoff rather than retirement.
OnceInABlueMoon on
I’ve reduced my 401k back to the minimum to get the company match, stopped buying the nice to have items, and went through my house and gathered things I can sell on eBay and marketplace. I’m battening down the hatches.
KokoBWareHOF on
Costs in urban centers, where many of these jobs are located, are exorbitant. Think about how much housing, daycare, student loans, etc. cost that were not as hard strapped on previous generations.
YepperyYepstein on
Society needs to move away from thinking 100k is the barrier to “rich” and instead spend more time educating people about Purchasing Power Parity.
Bosfordjd on
I mean I lost all faith in the US in 2016. The economy, government, the people. America voted for it 2x, political leaders on neither side did anything to stop it because they’re all cowards if not straight out malignant. We’ve been running a shell game for decades and no one is interested in reigning in buybacks, stock compensation, tax reform etc.
There is zero chance we turn this around given the population is only getting more susceptible to propaganda not less, it’s just gonna be a slow decline at best.
B-Large1 on
It’s surreal talking to my circle of friends circa 50 yrs old, and my cousins group, circa 30 years old, and you think we don’t even live in the same country at least financially. That older group will make tons of money with productivity gains by AI, the younger group will be facing headwinds as far as jobs, pay, housing, retirement, etc..
It really is a massive divide. I feel for those kids..
Natural_Rutabaga_182 on
People forget that as long as the money keeps moving, there won’t be a catastrophe. Stock market will keep melting up until liquidity stops/dries. Very strange era of humanity we are living in.
Euphoric-Cloud0324 on
Why would a company want to pay an American engineer $100,000 a year (with benefits), when they can just hire an H1B indentured servant for a fraction of that?
Imoutofchips on
Well, where has fascism actually worked in the long term? Spain? Portugal? Italy? Germany? Imperial Japan? And when there were initial gains in production, they were squandered along with lives on war. Many Americans (including me) see the Trump administration as fascist. And it’s not just Trump. Many people seem very happy to sail inthat boat.
oneWeek2024 on
we’re all paying an additional 20-30% (to infinity %) flat tax factored/compounded into every single thing we buy, while the dollar has lost 10%
–this is killing small businesses, and crushing domestic manufacturing/factory work
and corporations which have paid 30% less tax revenue, are laying people off to offset costs and bullshit AI scam investing.
so… you know, typical dogshit republican economy …totes sure it won’t go nuclear right about the time trump’s 2nd term presumably ends.
Purpsnikka on
This economy is crazy. Im making the most i ever have but feel the poorest. I make 120 in Socal which is basically poverty wages. My wife and I dont buy anything crazy and are still negative each month. I budget and try not to spend on stuff we dont need. We dont drink, we dont get coffee, we eat at home and its still not enough.
Granted, we own our condo so were luckier than a lot of people but still it shouldn’t be this bad.
ObjectBrilliant7592 on
$100k is good money, but it’s not $100k in the 90s. “Making six figures” used to clearly place you in a financially secure class of professionals (accountants, middle managers, experienced IT professionals, etc.), the kind of people who had a unique skillset and could likely find another job paying a similar amount if they found themselves without a job.
Now, those jobs are barely more secure than working at Wendy’s, due to immense competition, and $100k buys you a good but fairly basic lifestyle in a major city. It’s not the huge flex that it once was.
SwedishFresh on
They’re using AI as cover for offshoring and cutbacks that would normally spook investors. If AI were replacing labor at scale, productivity growth should be accelerating and it’s not. Costs for essentials continue to rise while wages and hiring are stagnant. If you’re over 50 chances are you got on the ladder and have some insulation. Anyone younger is absolutely fucking screwed
DarkBlueEska on
I’m someone who’s done exceptionally well over the past several years as a relatively high earner, but I still find myself keeping expenses very low and saving and investing nearly every extra dollar I make because this supposed prosperity just feels fake to me. I look at the line going up month over month and I feel like it’s a house of cards that could collapse any day now and I need to have a hoard saved up.
I have a job as an engineer now that seems secure enough but with the frenzy around AI and automation and the insane difficulty of securing new jobs – I was unemployed for 8 months before I landed at my current employer – I basically live every day just assuming it could all evaporate tomorrow and I need to have enough stored up to live for a long time and potentially pivot to an entirely new career if the worst predictions come true.
Things are just not particularly good for anyone but the very highest earners right now. I have a solid base under me so I’m much better off than people on the lower end of the income distribution who are legitimately struggling to survive, but this is just not an environment where I feel comfortable doing anything but treading water and making the safest moves possible with my money. No cars, no houses, no new debt…not until there’s more certainty about the future.
Familiar_Pea_4157 on
It’s weird because making $100k is still impressive in the sense that not a lot of people ever hit that mark but at the same time $100k is not impressive at all in terms of what it affords you now days.
unbreakablekango on
What all of these comments seem to have in common is that all of our Middle Class workers are saving up for an anticipated lay-off. The fact that our middle class has been conditioned to expect to be fired at any time at random is extremely worrying.
3cansammy on
Our household is 240k a year and we just did a pantry week. We’re feeling very hesitant about spending money, as millennials we got wrecked and a late start from the Great Recession. You don’t forget and I think you always have it in the back of your mind.
Alarm bells are ringing
kennyloggins19 on
Because $100k today has the same purchasing power as $60k from 10 years ago. What people think is $100k in purchasing power is closer to $175k now.
Powderkeg314 on
I’m 28 and have a $300,000 net worth. I am scared shitless by this economy and am starting to cut back on non essential purchases. I’m fully prepared for the reality that we are quickly going into a recession and I may lose my job. People I know who are in high level roles are getting laid off like crazy right now
getmeoutoftax on
People are starting to lose faith in the economy partly because they realize that there are only about ten years left of white collar work. AI agents will replace the overwhelming majority of white collar work beyond that time frame. Only manager level and above might be safe, and middle management probably won’t last much longer beyond that.
br_k_nt_eth on
For real. I broke $100k last year, made more money than I ever have, but I’m still budgeting like I’m broke because prices for everything have gone up so much and the economy is so fucked. My partner also works, but if I’m out of a job, we’re truly fucked, so I need at least 8 months in savings to feed comfortable. I’m also hesitant to invest because things look sketchy as hell.
rdldr1 on
I’m trying my best to withdraw from participating in Capitalism. No vacations. No large, unessential purchases. Greatly reduce eating out restaurants and avoiding chain restaurants.
Scrandon on
We’ve lost faith in the economy, we’ve lost faith in the country. Anyone with a brain sees we’re being pulled down by the dumbest motherfuckers out there. We don’t want to work hard and be productive just to have our value stolen by some demented kleptocrat like in Russia.
FD4L on
Canada is in the same situation. I make about $110k as the sole earner in our household, and I basically live paycheque to paycheque in a 1000 square foot house that I was lucky to have purchased in 2019.
29 Comments
It’s a massive red flag because this demographic usually acts as the economy’s safety net. We’re seeing a real disconnect where the official data looks fine on paper, but the actual ‘on the ground’ reality for white-collar roles has become incredibly stagnant. Between the hiring freezes and the uncertainty around how AI is reshaping middle management, even high earners are starting to play defense with their spending. If the people who usually drive discretionary growth are losing faith, the ‘soft landing’ narrative becomes a lot harder to justify.
Wait you’re telling me that the continual layoffs from s&p500 firms even though they constantly announce record profits shouldn’t instill confidence in the white collar job market?
Not surprising. My father made $70k+ in 1999 as a cop. FIL made $90k as a factory worker. $52k then is equivalent to $100k today. Maths don’t math.
Consumer confidence goes down, recession will sets in.
No amount of lower interest rate is going to get people to taking on more debt, when they are unsure about their jobs/income source.
AI/Offshoring decimating 100k jobs one at a time is going to be the cherry on the top.
I agree with Michael novogratz we are in a new gilded age. I think like him it takes time before reforms are made to make it better. What’s interesting about the last gilded age is it was brought by industrialization. I think the catalyst to the new gilded age was digitization.
It honestly doesn’t matter how much money I make if my job can vanish at any second, and I know from fairly recent experience it can take months to years to find a role that even approaches my previous salary or isn’t a big step down.
My household income looks fine on paper, but we are saving like crazy because it could be gone at any time, and monthly non-discretionary expenses like rent and food and medical are so high that no amount of being frugal will get us through it without relying on savings. And that’s if one of us loses a job. If we both do at the same time (happened in 2023) we just bleed savings. I can’t be the only one saving up for the next layoff rather than retirement.
I’ve reduced my 401k back to the minimum to get the company match, stopped buying the nice to have items, and went through my house and gathered things I can sell on eBay and marketplace. I’m battening down the hatches.
Costs in urban centers, where many of these jobs are located, are exorbitant. Think about how much housing, daycare, student loans, etc. cost that were not as hard strapped on previous generations.
Society needs to move away from thinking 100k is the barrier to “rich” and instead spend more time educating people about Purchasing Power Parity.
I mean I lost all faith in the US in 2016. The economy, government, the people. America voted for it 2x, political leaders on neither side did anything to stop it because they’re all cowards if not straight out malignant. We’ve been running a shell game for decades and no one is interested in reigning in buybacks, stock compensation, tax reform etc.
There is zero chance we turn this around given the population is only getting more susceptible to propaganda not less, it’s just gonna be a slow decline at best.
It’s surreal talking to my circle of friends circa 50 yrs old, and my cousins group, circa 30 years old, and you think we don’t even live in the same country at least financially. That older group will make tons of money with productivity gains by AI, the younger group will be facing headwinds as far as jobs, pay, housing, retirement, etc..
It really is a massive divide. I feel for those kids..
People forget that as long as the money keeps moving, there won’t be a catastrophe. Stock market will keep melting up until liquidity stops/dries. Very strange era of humanity we are living in.
Why would a company want to pay an American engineer $100,000 a year (with benefits), when they can just hire an H1B indentured servant for a fraction of that?
Well, where has fascism actually worked in the long term? Spain? Portugal? Italy? Germany? Imperial Japan? And when there were initial gains in production, they were squandered along with lives on war. Many Americans (including me) see the Trump administration as fascist. And it’s not just Trump. Many people seem very happy to sail inthat boat.
we’re all paying an additional 20-30% (to infinity %) flat tax factored/compounded into every single thing we buy, while the dollar has lost 10%
–this is killing small businesses, and crushing domestic manufacturing/factory work
and corporations which have paid 30% less tax revenue, are laying people off to offset costs and bullshit AI scam investing.
so… you know, typical dogshit republican economy …totes sure it won’t go nuclear right about the time trump’s 2nd term presumably ends.
This economy is crazy. Im making the most i ever have but feel the poorest. I make 120 in Socal which is basically poverty wages. My wife and I dont buy anything crazy and are still negative each month. I budget and try not to spend on stuff we dont need. We dont drink, we dont get coffee, we eat at home and its still not enough.
Granted, we own our condo so were luckier than a lot of people but still it shouldn’t be this bad.
$100k is good money, but it’s not $100k in the 90s. “Making six figures” used to clearly place you in a financially secure class of professionals (accountants, middle managers, experienced IT professionals, etc.), the kind of people who had a unique skillset and could likely find another job paying a similar amount if they found themselves without a job.
Now, those jobs are barely more secure than working at Wendy’s, due to immense competition, and $100k buys you a good but fairly basic lifestyle in a major city. It’s not the huge flex that it once was.
They’re using AI as cover for offshoring and cutbacks that would normally spook investors. If AI were replacing labor at scale, productivity growth should be accelerating and it’s not. Costs for essentials continue to rise while wages and hiring are stagnant. If you’re over 50 chances are you got on the ladder and have some insulation. Anyone younger is absolutely fucking screwed
I’m someone who’s done exceptionally well over the past several years as a relatively high earner, but I still find myself keeping expenses very low and saving and investing nearly every extra dollar I make because this supposed prosperity just feels fake to me. I look at the line going up month over month and I feel like it’s a house of cards that could collapse any day now and I need to have a hoard saved up.
I have a job as an engineer now that seems secure enough but with the frenzy around AI and automation and the insane difficulty of securing new jobs – I was unemployed for 8 months before I landed at my current employer – I basically live every day just assuming it could all evaporate tomorrow and I need to have enough stored up to live for a long time and potentially pivot to an entirely new career if the worst predictions come true.
Things are just not particularly good for anyone but the very highest earners right now. I have a solid base under me so I’m much better off than people on the lower end of the income distribution who are legitimately struggling to survive, but this is just not an environment where I feel comfortable doing anything but treading water and making the safest moves possible with my money. No cars, no houses, no new debt…not until there’s more certainty about the future.
It’s weird because making $100k is still impressive in the sense that not a lot of people ever hit that mark but at the same time $100k is not impressive at all in terms of what it affords you now days.
What all of these comments seem to have in common is that all of our Middle Class workers are saving up for an anticipated lay-off. The fact that our middle class has been conditioned to expect to be fired at any time at random is extremely worrying.
Our household is 240k a year and we just did a pantry week. We’re feeling very hesitant about spending money, as millennials we got wrecked and a late start from the Great Recession. You don’t forget and I think you always have it in the back of your mind.
Alarm bells are ringing
Because $100k today has the same purchasing power as $60k from 10 years ago. What people think is $100k in purchasing power is closer to $175k now.
I’m 28 and have a $300,000 net worth. I am scared shitless by this economy and am starting to cut back on non essential purchases. I’m fully prepared for the reality that we are quickly going into a recession and I may lose my job. People I know who are in high level roles are getting laid off like crazy right now
People are starting to lose faith in the economy partly because they realize that there are only about ten years left of white collar work. AI agents will replace the overwhelming majority of white collar work beyond that time frame. Only manager level and above might be safe, and middle management probably won’t last much longer beyond that.
For real. I broke $100k last year, made more money than I ever have, but I’m still budgeting like I’m broke because prices for everything have gone up so much and the economy is so fucked. My partner also works, but if I’m out of a job, we’re truly fucked, so I need at least 8 months in savings to feed comfortable. I’m also hesitant to invest because things look sketchy as hell.
I’m trying my best to withdraw from participating in Capitalism. No vacations. No large, unessential purchases. Greatly reduce eating out restaurants and avoiding chain restaurants.
We’ve lost faith in the economy, we’ve lost faith in the country. Anyone with a brain sees we’re being pulled down by the dumbest motherfuckers out there. We don’t want to work hard and be productive just to have our value stolen by some demented kleptocrat like in Russia.
Canada is in the same situation. I make about $110k as the sole earner in our household, and I basically live paycheque to paycheque in a 1000 square foot house that I was lucky to have purchased in 2019.
Last year I took home $56k net on that salary.