Companies like these who use their products or power for unethical purposes. Palantir is known for using ai and surveillance on civilians. They are working with ICE on software to find immigrants to detain. Black Rock is in the defense industry working with weapons to use in wars or conflicts.
Both these companies go against my ethical principles and both are very successful companies. How do people invest in companies they know go against their principles or morals?
I’m against war so I’d never invest in companies that are pro-war.
Investing with unethical companies like Palantir or Black Rock.
byu/smelltheocean ininvesting
Posted by smelltheocean
16 Comments
I invest to make money. I use my money to help drive change.
If you want to stay poor and silent to maintain your illusion of morality, feel free.
why is the defense industry unethical? why is surveillance on immigrants unethical? people can have fundamentally different views on whats just/ethical (or simply not care about it at all for material profit). its incredibly naive to project your own views like this lol.
I remember that 99% of companies are evil and sleep well at night.
Cool story bro
Not everyone is against it or there would be no war. War to you and defense to someone else.
I have a short list of companies i won’t invest in. That’s perfectly fine to do
I’m curious about black rock though, i thought they were an investment manager, like Vanguard. Do they invest more than any of the others in defense stocks?
Honest take – I dont find either of these particularly unethical.
Palantir makes software that helps governments and companies analyze data. Yes ICE uses it, but so do hospitals tracking disease outbreaks and companies fighting fraud. The tool itself isnt evil, its how people use it.
BlackRock is an asset manager. They dont “make weapons”, they invest in a diversified portfolio which includes defense companies. So does basically every index fund you could buy.
>Black Rock is in the defense industry working with weapons to use in wars or conflicts.
I guess that would make Vanguard, Fidelity, and others also complicit in working in the defense industry?
Blackrock is an Asset Manager? What’s your Problem?
You sound confused as to what Blackrock is and does.
Everyone has their own principles and morals unless they are part of some community that doesn’t let them think for themselves.
It seems like a bonus that they’re doing those things tbh, it’s just a selling point to drive the change and save american people from illegal migrants
Don’t bother.
Sadly people who invest in stocks engage in an impressive amount of wilful ignorance, because facing moral realities means (they think) having to sacrifice portfolio value. Even though there are plenty of ethical ETFs or alternative stock picking strategies that would be just as profitable without supporting the most unethical companies imaginable.
You have a valid point, but you will be downvoted and scorned because the alternative means changing.
Rutger Bregman’s recent Reith lectures (‘We live in a time of monsters’) and some of his books give great coverage of this.
Its hard to protest palantir your small not buying theyre stock means nothing. Boycotting Tesla on the other hand has Elon changing his whole business model . Unfortunately for him, he is moving into another boycottable product. Nazis for never !
In many ways the global economic system is morally bankrupt. The way we use resources and willfully ignore societal and environmental problems has kept us on a self-destructing road for a while now.
I would not sweat about the ethicality of these companies. In the worst case their actions bring the inevitable change in reality just a little faster.
It becomes more difficult, but not impossible.
The biggest issue is that avoiding these companies means the best-known diversified, broad market funds basically become a no-go. And while there are certain indexes that may work for you, it’s unlikely that you’ll find something tailored to your exact beliefs.
For example, ESGV would be an S&P 500 substitute that excludes companies based on certain moral principles:
>• Specifically excludes stocks of certain companies related to the following: adult entertainment, alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, gambling, chemical and biological weapons, cluster munitions, anti-personnel landmines, nuclear weapons, conventional military weapons, civilian firearms, nuclear power, and coal, oil, or gas.
>• Excludes stocks of companies that do not meet certain labor, human rights, environmental, and anti-corruption standards.
>• Excludes companies that do not meet certain diversity criteria.
There are a number of funds like this – so maybe you can find something that works for you there. Though you’ll need to consider your exact criteria carefully – you mentioned surveillance and weapons/war, but what about for-profit prisons? Or companies that engage in union-busting? Or what about palm oil (which is an actual thing some funds, like USXF, filter for due to its association with deforestation, habitat destruction, etc)?
If not, your next best option is direct indexing while excluding the specific companies that bother you. This means you buy just buy all the individual companies that make up the index at the appropriate percentage for the index after factoring in your exclusions. This can be significantly more difficult as (1) it’s tough to manage that many stocks, (2) you’d actually have to research each individual company to figure out if they’re acceptable to you, and (3) gaining access to international companies that aren’t traded on US exchanges is much more costly without a fund/ETF (and without international stocks, you’re limiting your diversification by only investing in 1 country – the US).
So you’ll need to determine if there’s a fund that’s “Good Enough” or if you’re willing to take on the task of investigating companies and maintaining a portfolio with limited diversification.