Alright degenerates, I’m trying to understand whether this is a galaxy-brain capital markets move or just corporate pickpocketing in a necktie.
Using RILYP as the example. Regarded ticker? absolutely, because its what we do here.
Here’s what I think I’ve got so far:
- RILYP = preferred stock, not a bond
- RILYZ = senior note / baby bond
- RILYP has a $25 liquidation preference
- The 6.875% is the dividend rate based on the $25 par, not float, not ownership, not some secret wizard percentage
- So annual dividends are about $1.71875/share
- If the stock is trading around $11.84, the “yield” looks absolutely filthy, like 14.5%
- BUT if dividends are suspended, that yield is basically an Excel hallucination with a pulse
- Yes, it’s cumulative
- Yes, it’s paid in arrears
- Yes, unpaid dividends stack up like dirty dishes in a frat house
- No, “accrued” does not mean cash magically appears in my brokerage account while management is hiding in the bushes
So here’s the part that is melting my brain:
As I understand it, the company has two ways to get rid of this thing:
1) Open-market repurchases
They buy shares from willing sellers at whatever weak-handed raccoons are willing to dump them for.
So if it’s trading at $11–12, they can buy there.
But they can’t force me to sell for that, correct?
2) Formal redemption / call
They exercise the contractual right to redeem it at what I believe is $25/share plus accumulated and unpaid dividends.
So now for the real tinfoil:
What stops them from doing the following absolutely cursed maneuver?
- quietly buying as much RILYP as possible in the open market at crackhead prices
- saying absolutely nothing useful
- pretending any future redemption is just “under consideration”
- letting retail paperhands donate shares at $11–12 because they have the emotional resilience of wet cardboard
- then, after loading the boat, announcing a redemption and blasting the remaining stubborn goblins out at $25 + arrears
Basically:
Can management play dumb and say
“Whoa whoa whoa, that wasn’t a plan, that was just a thought, bro”
even if internally they were:
- discussing redemption
- modeling the cost
- lining up financing
- whispering to lawyers
- and dry-humping a spreadsheet labeled “preferred cleanup strategy_FINAL_v7_REALFINAL.xlsx”
Because that seems like the kind of thing that would make securities law professors start sweating through their Dockers.
My main question is where the line actually is between:
- “just kicking tires” and
- material nonpublic information
Because if management knows there’s a realistic path to redeeming this thing at $25 + arrears, and meanwhile they’re scooping shares from retail at $12 like a coupon-cutting serial killer, that seems… not exactly wholesome.
Also, separate question:
If they’re only buying in the open market and I tell them to kiss my ass and keep my shares, I assume they cannot force me out unless they actually pull the trigger on a formal redemption. Right?
So I’m trying to figure out whether suspended cumulative preferreds trading at half of par are:
- a genuine distressed opportunity
- a value trap wearing lingerie
- or a legal gray-zone carnival game where management gets first peek behind the curtain and retail gets a plastic spoon
Not asking whether RILYP is a buy.
I’m asking whether this setup basically allows the issuer to:
- let the market price in doom,
- quietly harvest weak hands,
- then come back later with the “surprise, it’s $25 now” finishing move on whoever didn’t fold.
Would appreciate input from anyone who knows about:
- preferred stock redemptions
- cumulative dividend arrears
- issuer repurchases
- 10b-5 / MNPI issues
- or just old-school Wall Street rat behavior in its natural habitat
Because right now this whole thing feels less like investing and more like being locked in a room with a magician, a divorce lawyer, and a feral CFO.
Can an issuer vacuum up its own preferred at dumpster prices, then nuke the leftovers with a $25 redemption like nothing happened? $RILYP
byu/Master___debator inwallstreetbets
Posted by Master___debator
5 Comments
not sure about the legal side but been watching rilyp for a while and that spread between trading price and redemption value is wild
thing is even if they can legally do the whole “oops didn’t mean to telegraph redemption while buying” dance, they still gotta have the cash to actually redeem at $25 plus arrears. lot of companies with suspended preferred are doing it because they’re cash-strapped in first place, so buying back at discount might be their only realistic move anyway
[removed]
Ey yo, ChatGPT how bout you prefer deez nuts?
https://preview.redd.it/jbh1wydhdftg1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d272e1a7a8539c89817e9d0140964b559368dfb
I mean they can always “restructure their debt” using bankruptcy courts, right?
This would at least lock out those shares for the foreseeable and then they could snap up at those rates. Or close their doors.
That’s kinda the ultimate risk.
Honestly I know fuck all about these but am in it for the answer.
Considering they are public, the buyback of these notes would come out in earnings. So I’m not sure about that dance. Could also be a build up to selling to private equity?
Literally do not know how preferreds work but I am just gaming out the worst cases, because if you are looking at distressed assets there is probably a reason
Good questions and thinking. I now know a decent bit about preferreds because I work in wealth management as an analyst and the FA I work for buys a lot of them under par for the nice yield and potential capital gains.
Basically a firm can indeed buy back its preferreds in the open market and would be incentivized to do so if they were under par because that would be very profitable to raise money and pay back less principle than you borrowed. So firms love buying back their preferreds when they trade under par.
However, they can ALMOST NEVER buy back their preferreds if the preferreds have dividends in arrears. They must pay the missing dividends before they can repurchase.
The other reason a firm may buy back preferreds at par is because they can re-issue at a lower interest rate and bring down their cost of borrowing.
So for your situation the risk is default. If there not paying dividends that’s not a great sign. Management can only buy back the preferred if they payout the dividends.
Hope this helps, preferreds can print money but your ultimate and most immanent risk is always growing concern (bankruptcy).