John Deaton on What Happens Next in SEC vs Ripple XRP Case, Coinbase vs SEC, Elizabeth Warren Crypto

Attorney John Deaton joins me to discuss:
– SEC vs Ripple XRP Next Steps
– Is Settlement still an option between SEC and Ripple?
– Will Coinbase win their lawsuit against the SEC?
– SEC vs Kraken
– Gary Gensler & Elizabeth Warren’s fight against Crypto

🌟Sponsor – Signup with Uphold. https://uphold.sjv.io/gbED4X
Terms Apply. Cryptoassets are highly volatile. Your capital is at risk.
✅ Sponsor – https://www.merlincrypto.com?p=ThinkingCrypto
“I am a Merlin partner and get compensated for purchases made through links in this content”
🚀 Get the Ledger Nano X to Safely store your Crypto – https://www.ledgerwallet.com/r/acd6
✅ Become a Channel Member – https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjpkwsuHgYx9fBE0ojsJ_-w/join
🔥 Buy Merch & support the Podcast https://my-store-574b5b.creator-spring.com/
💥 Sign up for the Free Thinking Crypto Weekly Newsletter https://thinkingcrypto.substack.com/
🔥Podcast Equipment:
– Mic https://amzn.to/3tYkVLn
– Mic boom arm https://amzn.to/40jMEma
– Recording interface https://amzn.to/3tUuiMo
– Lighting https://amzn.to/497pAuR

➡️ Follow on Twitter – https://twitter.com/ThinkingCrypto1
➡️ Follow on Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/thinkingcrypto/
➡️ Follow on LinkedIn – http://linkedin.com/company/thinking-crypto
➡️ Follow on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/thinkingcrypto/
➡️ Follow on TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@cryptobreakdowns
➡️ Website – https://www.ThinkingCrypto.com/
🔊 Listen to content on Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thinking-crypto-news-interviews/id1458945676
🔊 Listen to content on Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/221AV5A65v7uYEsuMviVKl

💼Business Inquiries💼
hellothinkingcrypto@gmail.com

⏰ Time Stamps ⏰
00:00 Intro
01:25 SEC vs Crypto
03:58 SEC vs Ripple next steps
09:13 Ripple international XRP sales impact
12:04 Can Ripple recoup law fees?
13:58 Can the SEC appeal?
17:25 Is Settlement still on the table?
19:40 SEC vs Coinbase
24:53 SEC vs Kraken
29:00 SEC DebtBox Judge Sanction
=================================================

📺 Interviews Playlists 📺
– All Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEe8rCbwJojpipmwwkvWhbQD
– Must Watch Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEdqEaSrjC3UHOQdw1eyeYRU
– Bitcoin Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEcjtw8URfr7-DfBi_J_O0ip
– Ripple XRP Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEc03SLancq1Ms6iC0RlRZBH
– Altcoin Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEeZ3QES9lD1f59YTWuQv-uv
– Crypto Regulators & Politicians Interviews – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEdsqA213osf2u-PbT1b7uM4
– Investment Firms & Hedge Funds – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEfa-HsusfQBB6blH3KR09mj
– Internet Pioneers & Entrepreneurs – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEdqCYps3eexnovm2WNWeP3o
– Women In Crypto – https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5rDfH3ofGEdwK2lIDFoAkmj_qoULLNkB

=================================================
#Crypto #XRP #Ripple #SEC #GaryGensler #ElizabethWarren #CryptoNews #Cryptocurrency #Bitcoin #BTC #BitcoinNews #BitcoinMining #XRPNews #RippleXRP #Ethereum #EthereumNews #ETH #Cardano #Ada #CardanoNews #Altcoin #Altcoins #NFTs #NFT #Metaverse #Podcast
=================================================
– The Thinking Crypto Podcast is your home for the best Crypto News and Interviews – crypto, cryptocurrency, crypto news, bitcoin, bitcoin news, xrp, xrp news, ripple, ripple news, ripple xrp, ethereum, ethereum news, cardano, ada, solana, altcoins, defi, news, interviews, podcast, metaverse, nft, nfts, podcast
=================================================
Disclaimer – The Thinking Crypto podcast and Tony Edward are not financial or investment experts. You should do your own research on each cryptocurrency and make your own conclusions and decisions for investment. Invest at your own risk, only invest what you are willing to lose. This channel and its videos are just for educational purposes and NOT investment or financial advice.

Note that links included in this description might be affiliate links. If you purchase a product or service with the links that I provide I may receive a small commission. There is no additional charge to you! Thank you for supporting my channel so I can continue to provide you with free content each week!

When he lost in the Ripple case he doubled down he’s doubling down he’s not going to step back and be like H maybe we got it wrong maybe uh we should revisit our Theory or uh no it’s like okay we’ll appeal it let’s let’s sue them all like that’s his

Mentality this content is brought to you by uphold which is a great crypto platform that I’ve been using since 2018 uphold has all the top cryptocurrencies Bitcoin and all the altcoins in fact they have 260 Plus cryptocurrencies on their platform you can also trade precious metals stable coins and 37 Fiat

Currencies in addition they are available in over 150 countries and this platform is fully reserved they do audits so you can trust that your funds are safe no comingling no lending out your funds if you’d like to learn more about uphold please visit the link in the description welcome to the thinking

Crypto podcast you’re home for cryptocurrency news and interviews with me today’s Attorney John Deon who’s the founder of Deon Law Firm cryptol law. us or crypto hyen law. us and the author of food stamp Warrior John welcome back thanks Tony it’s always great to be with you brother appreciate it for sure John

Uh we’ve been talking for years man um and things like it’s like we’re brothers man yeah what a journey right uh and there’s so many things that have escalated since then you know we started talking about Ripple and xrp back in the day now the SEC is attacking everything

That they can uh put you know point at and it’s pretty crazy what’s happening so I want to start with uh let me let me interrupt you real quick right here because if people rewind the clock when I first got on your show you know over

Two plus years ago we talked about that we talked about how the Ripple case uh the danger was that the industry was just thinking it was a oneoff right and that this was just a ripple thing and I and you we we talked about the allegations and how those same

Allegations and the complaint applied to cardano or to eeve or to algo or anything we we actually talked about that and said you know that we have to assume it’s a war on crypto and so I just want to remind your audience that uh that uh you and I were talking about

That you know two years ago so some of them caught up with us oh yeah yeah I mean you were spot on John it was an attack on crypto I remember you clearly stating that many times and now boy everybody’s a Target cardono you name it

Any anything on the top 50 market cap I mean really everything you know uh everything is and uh you know I know that xrp Community um um everyone has their view about ethereum because of the free pass and everything but you know the reality is um uh the SEC granted an

S uh an eth Futures ETF and so um unless they’re going to resend that you know um Larry thinkink Black Rock has applied for an a spot ethereum ETF and so anything outside those two and XR everything else under that is um is fair game and we got a division now we got

The cftc chair coming out saying most of crypto are Commodities and we got Gary Gensler saying everything is a security so you know your podcast is a security you just by the way my my my my brass knuckle necklace is a security under Gary gensler’s approach everything man

It’s it’s ridiculous at this point so let’s talk about the Ripple case um because last we heard uh the SEC had dropped a case against Brad garlinghouse and Chris Larson um I was hearing or seeing some things online about certain dates coming up I think possibly this

Week or next week tell us the latest there and what can we expect next yeah well really understand you’re right so um the only thing that was pending before there can be an appeal that goes to the second circuit or even the US Supreme Court related to the judges

Judgement decision there was the case against Brad Garling house Chris Larson uh I was on your show I was saying as was other people that it was the weakest case ever the SEC was going to lose it uh and the SEC instead of losing it um said they tapped out right they they

Just said we’re not going to win plus it would allowed a lot of testimony right Bill Hinman or someone may have been trying called as a witness and the SEC wanted to tap out from all that dropped the case and so we’re in the penalty phase and if people remember in the

Library case there was the summary judgment and then there was what is the appropriate remedy and so the judge basically said um exchange sales are not Securities celles the CES or the gifting or giving xrp to developers or for other people that type of transaction not a security and that the

Only ones that that did were ones that had written contracts with institutions and those are really in the early years now they add up to a lot of money right because the judge included odl sales and so it came to like 770 million and so what Ripple’s going to be

Doing uh the SEC is going to do is say we want every sell to every institution to include Ripple’s going to say well wait a minute um these transactions shouldn’t be included so let’s take an odl transaction if the person only um used xrp and owned it for a matter of

Seconds and then resold it you know Ripple will take another stab at saying to the judge look that they weren’t relying on us that was a utility transaction right right and and and that should be excluded Ripple will say also that um there were exemptions so if you’re accredited

Investor I can sell you a security right you don’t have to go register it because there’s an exemption well those institutions by definition are accredited investors so Ripple’s going to say look at all these sales judge they are exempt from section five registration and you know out of that

770 million I don’t know how much that adds up to right but you know Ripple’s just going to knock it down knock it down knock it down and if the judge accepts all that then she will decide what’s an appropriate remedy so what they’re doing is they’re engaging in

Like briefs could be due I didn’t check to see exactly what’s due but it’s going to be Discovery matters someone could get deposed again related to institutional CES that have taken place since the lawsuit was filed uh the SEC is going to like be aggressive try and

Get a pound of Flesh Ripple’s going to offer evidence there’ll be briefs filed there’ll be maybe an oral argument maybe not there was in the library case um xrp holders won’t participate in any of that uh if they were curious because that’s just about Ripple and you know ripples

Sells and whether or not Ripple should pay 10 million or a 100 million or whatever and we don’t take a stand in that you know we were there to say we got what we wanted right xrp is not a security and when I buy it on an

Exchange on coinbase or up hold or Kraken I’m not buying an illegal security what we wanted so we really won’t be participating so to be fair that was all my whole goal from day one and so I’m not as involved now I’m not watching the docket and and all

Those things and trying to figure out what’s exactly do yeah that absolutely makes sense you know what I mean but but that’s where we’re at we’re going to find out the yeah you know uh Tony I know I I should let you know and your viewers know that we’re in a little bit

Of a storm status okay uh I could you froze up on me so um you might have a a big job editing this one because of the because of the wind and everything that’s taking place here in uh Rhode Island no problem um so regarding these institutional sales that Ripple did does

That include International sales or or is it just great question great question that and and I should have brought that up so thank you for asking that no there’s a Supreme Court case called Morrison and it basically says that the SEC only has jurisdiction over the United States and so let’s think about

This for a minute xrp in Japan and in Singapore and in the United Arab Emirates and in Switzerland and in the UK their regulatory body has determined that xrp is not a security so when Ripple sells in Japan it’s got nothing to do with the United States and on top

Of that it’s not a security there like they have Clarity for a long time so Ripple’s going to say yes so that’s a great point because I don’t know what the figure is but let’s say um there’s 700 million and ripple can show that 700 uh 50 out of the 770 took place

Outside the US well now we’re down to 20 million like I don’t know what the numbers are but we did hear that I know the personal sales of Brad garlinghouse uh 95% were done overseas right he didn’t do it in the United States so they were excluded they were

Arguing so if Ripple really did do like 90 95% of all their xrp sales um outside the US then you know that number and I want people to think about that Tony I’m so glad you brought that question up because let’s say that Ripple’s let’s say 90 95% selles outside the United

States and let’s say Ripple is allowed to deduct all their business expenses all that and let’s say when all push comes to shove that the judge findes Ripple $10 million they spent 200 million to defend the case and at the end of the day the SEC gets 10 million I

Mean that could happen right and you talk about in a nonf fraud case you talk about a colossal waste of resources and money and time when Sam bankman freed is out there and machinski is out there and do Kwan’s out there and and you know henman’s up there and Clayton out there

All the bad guys in crypto I’m just saying that um uh it’s just it’s it’s depressing like it’s it’s it’s it’s disgusting is is is the better word and so yeah it that could happen that could happen and would Ripple be able to get any fees reimbursement of their legal

Fees from the SEC no um the uh it’s just not going to happen like I know people feel passionate about that uh but no the Ripple the judge found that Ripple violated the law okay she found that she said that you know she took this 19 46

Case and she applied it and she said Okay technically now that doesn’t mean she wants to punish Ripple right because I don’t think she does and so it’s not like a punitive damages thing but but uh in our system uh the way it works is the

Loser uh doesn’t have to pay the winners fees like in in in overseas in places it’s like whoever wins gets the others attorney’s fees in America we we you know we don’t do that because we it would discourage lawsuits and people they would be more hesitant to bring

Something because if they lose they’d have to pay everyone’s expenses but but the government did get you know a a partial Victory and so there’s no basis to ask for uh legally to ask for fees hi everyone pardon the interruption I’m Tony Edward the founder and host of The

Thinking crypto podcast I have a huge favor to ask you if you haven’t subscribed as yet on YouTube or the podcast platforms hit that subscribe button hit the Thumbs Up Button hit the notification Bell on the YouTube platform and on Spotify or apple or wherever you get your podcast please

Leave a festar rating and review it supports the podcast it allows me to bring great quality content to you thank you for your support and I’ll let you get back to the content that makes sense so uh we’re expecting this case to wrap up in

2024 um do you think the SEC has any ability to do any type of appeal do you think it will get to that point well sure both sides have a right to appeal steel uh let’s say that um let’s say that uh the judge says no I’m gonna not

Exclude odl sales they’re included and you owe 50 million I’m just picking numbers Ripple could appeal that part of it like they could say the only part we’re appealing transactions though the judge committed decision is over regardless of what the judge decides whether it’s 1 million or

100 million a fine for ripple the SEC can appeal to the second circuit saying judge Torres was wrong that xrp is a security and that xrp on exchanges are steel Securities blah blah blah now I want everyone to know I have to remind them because this is such a nuanced

Issue if the SEC were to appeal that decision right and they were to win which they won’t in my opinion so let me make that clear that doesn’t mean that the SEC that the case is over in the SEC one because what the judge did was

Brilliant in my opinion I call it appeal prooof right she said when it comes to exchanges in xrp um because of the transaction and because xrp holders she relied on our affidavits many of them didn’t even know who Ripple existed at the time that they couldn’t rely on the

Efforts of Ripple right if you don’t know that Ripple exists how do you rely on if you don’t know that it’s Ripple selling it to you how to you rely on so she said the third prong of hoe is not satisfied and since you have to satisfy

All the prongs I’m not I don’t have to apply the first and the second prong I don’t even have to do that analysis because the third prong doesn’t apply so all that would happen is if the SEC appeals it and if the SEC were to win this second circuit would send it back

To judge Torres and say okay we overrule you on the third prong now go back and apply the other two prongs and then she could turn around and say common Enterprise wasn’t satisfied rule back to Ripple and then it would go back up on appeal right and

I believe she would do that because the common Enterprise factor to me is even worse for the SEC than the third prong so the reality is the ruling we got is the law for the foreseeable future for the next couple years and I think it it’s I personally believe she

Will not be overruled on appeal and I’ll back on your show and eat my words if I’m wrong because I I’ll stand by it but that’s how I feel I’ve been right so far I think I’m going to be right again for sure and and do you feel uh potentially

A settlement could be in works is that’s still on the table I mean I don’t think so right but that’s just me guessing and and and to be fair to the audience the uh listener uh who’s thinking they think settlement is on the table is just as

Good as me right their opinion is no better than mine um but the SEC is in this war so if you’re in the middle of the war and you’re going after coinbase and you’re going after Kraken and you’re going after binance and you’re saying that uh algo security and you’re saying

That cardano’s a security and you’re saying that these businesses are illegal then how do you thread the needle with ripple right it’s you could you could but it just guinsler doesn’t seem to it’s all war it’s scorched Earth policy we’re in war Elizabeth Warren just initiated that bill it bans Bitcoin

In the United States right it it it it tries to it says that validating nodes have to comply with anti-money laundering policy so software code with nodes out there in the world have to you know how do you know your customer if you’re just a transaction you know you’re validating

A transaction on on a decentralized ledger you can’t so that’s why it’s a DEA facto ban and um is is the SEC going to say okay well let’s come to grips and agree that um xrp uh sold on exchanges is not a security but cardano

Is yeah so I don’t see it you know and um the only thing that I see causing a settlement is if coinbase wins their motion to dismiss or partially wins it that’s the only thing otherwise it’s going to be is still a war man we’re in the middle of a war yeah you’re

Absolutely right so let’s talk about coinbase because um I think it was just yesterday or this weekend uh the SEC denied coinbase’s petition for crypto rules um and then coinbase decided to sue them as a result and we know the SEC is suing coinbase um I feel like this is almost

As far as caliber of the opponent you’re taking on that the SEC is taking on coinbase has assets they have Capital they have a legal team what what do you think happens there well listen I thought that I thought it would be very difficult to ever match Ripple’s legal

Team you know quite frankly I mean Ripple is legal team is you know Stellar former SEC Chief councils directors of enforcement uh director of Corporation Finance chairwoman of the SEC right uh and it was impressive and and coinbase may not have exactly like the names of

You know they do have some of that too but yeah I mean they’re at least equally as as impressive as if the Ripple team and and and coinbase is all in now like they’re all in that they whether you like coinbase or not as a customer or

All that let’s regardless of that they have been more compliant and have have have not done the things that others have done to try to get bigger um than any other company and they they were out there begging the SEC for guidance like we want to be a good

Corporate Citizen and I’m not a spokesperson for I know I just sounded like one right uh for coinbase I’m a customer and and I I I like Paul Ruel his the the chief legal officer I’ve interviewed him I think he’s a great guy I like Brian

Armstrong I know a lot of people don’t I don’t see anything wrong with him I know a lot of people disagree with me um but I mean they went to the I just want people to think about if you’re a business and you’re trying to do the

Right thing they went to the SEC Tony and said hey we’re going to list xrp but we won’t we won’t if you tell us not to right and then they they list xrp they promote the hell out of xrp with usdc back in those days they’re expanding their crossborder payments

With xrp and then you know less than 18 months later coinbase has to delist xrp because they don’t want to run a file they don’t have to but they chose to because they’re trying to play nice which Kraken did you know like and and I I want people out there you

Know because I just started Kraken and and I know that you want to talk about like they they paid 50 million right yeah and now they get sued anyways and and listen I was someone who said to all the exchanges when Ripple was sued join me in the motion to intervene

Like I was out there saying I know that no one else is advising you this way and I’m being super aggressive that’s why I’m not a chief legal officer to anyone right because I’m I’m too aggressive maybe but I was like this is what you should do trust me they’re coming after

You right and and so a lot of people be like well shame on Kraken and they should have joined listen you got a company to run you got employees right and if I’m Jesse pow who was the CEO at the time this is what your your your um

Legal advisers are telling you they’re like okay well we’re learning from the Ripple case that we’re going to need to come up with aund $200 million to fight and uh this is our insurance issue we’re going to have to sell funded a lot

Of it if not all of it so we could go that route and lay off 25% of our people maybe to never bring them back or we could pay this $50 million fine and like move forward and adjust our staking thing and blah blah so you know it’s a

Tough position to be in there all I want people to know that uh because I see a lot of you know criticism of uh of that decision and that you know but it’s understandable man like it’s a tough it’s a tough decision I mean you’re you’re you’re a smart guy but you’re

Also a guy with a and you’re a passionate guy you’re a guy that’s ready to fight but if if you had you know your employees and you got someone’s got their mortgage payment and now you got to lay them off it if you’re a good person man it it’ll affect you you know

What I’m saying it’s a very tough spot to be into your point uh running a business and trying to keep the business operating right there’s expenses and like you said you have people who have families and their jobs and so forth uh but John isn’t it wild that the SEC appr coinbase

To got public now is suing them Kraken they they did a settlement hey hey stop your staking you know and pay us to 50 millionar now a year later hey Kraken come back here we got some stuff to discuss what the hell is that I I I don’t understand what’s going on here

Well I a I just think it’s greed and I think that the SEC knew at the time I believe that they knew they were going to come after Kraken anyways uh I really do and they got there as much as they could they weakened it I mean Kraken paid 50

Million right they weakened Kraken financially to be able to defend their themselves that’s 50 million that could have went to defending the case and and and pursuing uh an aggressive strategy or whatnot and so uh it was a very uh you know diabolical thing and this people

Have got to understand I realized that Gary giner is the most hated man in crypto and and I understand that but you can’t underestimate him like you know yes I was someone who said we will win in court because I had faith that the courts will follow the Constitution and

They will see this gross overreach right and that the their unconstitutional expansion of hoe into the secondary markets and all that kind of stuff those were my thoughts well when but um but he he’s he’s like the Mad genius and uh diabolical and yeah let’s get our 50 million we’re probably coming back

For them later um and you know also he’s not the kind of guy and I’ve I’ve talked to people who have I’ve never been in the room Gensler but I have talked to and interviewed lawyers who have been in the room with Gensler he is a megalomaniac who walks in and lets you

Know he’s the smartest man in the room right uh immediately but when he lost in the Ripple case he doubled down he’s doubling down he’s not going to step back and be like hm maybe we got it wrong maybe uh we should revisit our Theory or uh no it’s

Like okay appeal it let’s let’s sue them all like that’s his mentality and um and I think people have got to accept that um we’re in the biggest part of the war right now the war the biggest part of the war wasn’t the Ripple case you know

That was the beginning of the war that’s what that was that was the beginning of the war um this introduction by by Elizabeth Warren of a bill that 20% of the Senate already agrees with so I just want you to know that there are 100 Senators one

Out of five minimum are ready to ban crypto in the United States of America one out of five right now now everyone out there Tony’s like oh she’s put 600 bills and none of them pass and and it’ll never passed the financial services committee and I agree her bill

Will not pass next year but there is going to be no bill next year this is the long game right if and she’s creating the narrative The Narrative and what we’re at risk is is some of her language being put into a subsequent Bill an infrastructure bill at this any

Thoughts you had on the the debt box situation where the judge came out said uh you know they would potentially issue a sanction against the SEC lawyers if if that’s right yeah I mean here’s the thing everybody needs to understand the SEC has dug themselves you know how I

Just said to you that Gensler doubled downed after the Ripple verdict uh decision he’s going to go all in against crypto he doesn’t care the SEC is almost as though every time they get Chast by a judge or criticized they circle the wagons around themselves even more uh I’ve never seen

An agency with a bunch of lawyers that lack you know ethics in my opinion it is institutionalized and you know I used to just think it was a a handful of of lawyers you know lawyers want to be they they’re competitive they want to win and so and they’re against crypto these guys

Feel and gals feel insulated they feel like somehow uh they’re Above the Law they don’t care if a judge says that they lack allegiance to the law I mean in in my years i’ if a judge said to me even if even if I didn’t like the judge

Even I disagree with the judge but if a judge questioned my honor questioned my Integrity that said that like I didn’t give a about the law and that I’m a hypocrite I I might say you know what maybe I’m too emotional maybe I’m too personal like I let something get ahead

Of my it would cause you pause these guys don’t and and so in that Deb box what your audience might not know is that the the SEC went in a temporary restraining order so what you need to know about that Tony is that the other

Side isn’t there that’s when I get to go to a judge if I want to get a temporary restraining order against Tony and you’re my neighbor and you and I are in some dispute but I go to the judge and I don’t let you know I’m going

To the judge and I tell the judge all these lies about you and then the judge shuts you down right uh and and causes some kind of damage to you that’s what happened they went in and told the judge that if he didn’t freeze the

Assets uh of debt box then they were be he had to do that because they were closing bank accounts and moving the money overseas and that if he didn’t Grant this injunction and shut them down and and freezed the the whole thing customers would lose money forever and

It was all not true you know and so what ended up happening is that the banks because of giner uh and Elizabeth Warren’s anti- crypto policy the banks were like saying hey we don’t want to do business with crypto companies so it the banks saying we don’t want to do business anymore you

Got to close the account not the company and so the question is did the SEC just assume like they didn’t investigate they didn’t ask they saw Banks closing accounts so they went in and assumed and told the judge but they were just wrong like they were recklessly wrong or did they know for

Sure and lie to the judge and the judge’s position was it doesn’t matter whether you are recklessly disregarding the truth or you are intentionally misleading the court that deserves sanctions and so the judge is contemplating issuing sanctions against the individual attorneys who the judge feels misled the court and it caused

Irreparable damage to this company I mean you you freeze your assets I mean checks start bouncing brother like you know if if um you know your uh your business if if if the bank accounts and everything got frozen you know checks employees payroll everything shut down and so you know I

Think it’s I’m glad you brought out debt box because it shows you where we are we have an outof control SEC that I believe in my heart needs to be completely reformed not just the laws and trying to apply 1930s laws to the modernday world I mean that’s of course

Needs to take place but fundamentally changing the SEC uh its Mission its priorities things like that uh shutting down the revolving door how you can how you can you know be overseeing you know this industry and then all of a sudden you’re cashing out and and being hired

By the same companies that that you were just regulating like all that’s got to change or or we’re doomed yeah you’re right and I’m hoping you know I think Congressman Warren Davidson’s restructuring plan on bill I I think that makes sense I I don’t know what’s the likelihood of it getting pushed to

Anytime soon but I yeah I mean not obviously not with the the Democrats in charge of the Senate and all that but you know what it does is it starts creating the narrative so I I it’s not that it will pass but should the chairman you know not have as much po as

The chairman does should you know listen I’m all for transparency right I think that there I think that their vote when they vote it should be made public immediately yeah like I we should get and see what the vote is when it happens if they voted three to two to Sue

Coinbase and it was guinsler and the two de then just do it why you got to wait to afterwards the the the the calendars who guinsler is meeting we don’t have to make it real time because you want to worry about people’s safety but it should be released within 24

Hours so if Gary guinsler met with Sam bitman freed on Monday maybe we don’t know that’s happening on Monday but we should know Tuesday that he met the day before and John I’m hoping that Patrick McKenry I know he announced his retirement he still has a year that he fils his

Subpena and I think that further weakens Gary genser I think we need to expose that but will they act is the big question um you know yeah it’s shocking to me that the that the financial services committee has never subpoena the SEC I mean to me that’s a

Sad statement of our politics how do you conduct oversight yeah like right and how how if if you say to Gary Gensler hey we want to see the meeting notes between you and Sam bank and free how can Congress not get that like you oversee them and he could just ignore

You and and you can threaten subpoenas all you want but I think it’s because he thinks giner is going to ignore the subpoena and then he you know he loses like if he ignores The subpoena then you know you’re going into court to enforce the subpoena and and

Then maybe the threat of the subpoena is um is less of a threat because now you can ignore it I don’t know but let me tell you something I mean they have a sheriff over there uh I’d be a hell of a lot more aggressive if it was me and I

Would take him to court yeah um and I I would force them to honor The subpoena I would get a Supreme Court Justice with the second circuit District cour I mean uh in Colombia they oversee the SEC I’d get a court order saying ginster must comply with this um

You know I mean yeah and I’m hoping they do that John uh I think the industry needs it and and the SEC is just out of control a final question here before I let you go um yeah are are you planning to be amus in any other cases uh

Anything you’re looking at yeah well I uh we have in the coinbase case um there are um I have a form out we’ve got over 5,000 I haven’t aggressively pushed it you know I don’t think we’re gonna get 75,000 again you know like we did with

Xrp holders I think the xrp community is pretty unique uh Community worldwide and but I think that uh we certainly can get a couple more thousand uh probably if coinbase loses the motion to dismiss which is on January 17th that’s the next big day in crypto in my opinion if they

Lose that then they’ll be a they’ll move forward with the rest of the case just like the Ripple case went down it’ll take a couple years there’ll be depositions and and all of that kind of stuff and then eventually there will be motions for summary judgment and I’ll be PR would

Participate on behalf of coinbase customers just to make sure that the the regular customers voice is heard what we don’t want is the SPC going in saying we filed this lawsuit on behalf of coinbase customers right uh and and we don’t necessarily want coinbase to speak for

Us either right we want we want to say hey this is this is uh this is our voice have our own voice heard so so that is um a case that uh I’ll be involved in probably if it moves forward I’m hoping that judge faia shocks uh the SEC and

Grants at least partially their summ their motion for to dismiss John always great stuff my friend thank you so much for joining me thank you Tony be well brother