JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon on bitcoin: My personal advice is don’t get involved

JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon joins ‘Squawk Box’ to discuss his meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, most pressing geopolitical issues, doing business in China, state of the economy, 2024 race, bitcoin and crypto at large, commercial real estate, and more.

THAT SO — >> CAN WE PIVOT TO A TOPIC I KNOW YOU FIND SORT OF LABORIOUS AT THIS POINT? BITCOIN. >> YEAH. >> THIS ETF WAS APPROVED, JUST ABOUT A WEEK AGO NOW AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT ULTIMATELY MEANS

JPMORGAN, I IMAGINE, IF YOU’RE A CLIENT, YOU COULD CALL AND SAY GET ME SOME OF THIS ETF. WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR BROKERS TO TELL THEM BACK WHEN THEY MAKE THAT CALL? >> IT IS AN POSH THING THIS IS THE LAST TIME I’M TALKING ABOUT THIS ON CNBC

SO HELP ME GOD BLOCKCHAIN IS REAL IT IS A TECHNOLOGY WE USE IT. IT IS GOING TO MOVE MONEY. IT IS GOING TO MOVE DATA IT IS EFFICIENT. WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT FOR 12 YEARS I THINK WE HAVE WASTED TOO MANY WORDS ON THAT. CRYPTOCURRENCIES, TWO TYPES.

THERE IS A CRYPTOCURRENCY WHICH MIGHT ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. THINK OF IT AS USING IT TO BUY AND SELL REAL ESTATE, MOVE DATA. >> TOKENIZING. >> TOKENIZING THINGS THAT YOU DO SOMETHING WITH AND THEN ONE WHICH DOES NOTHING. THE PET ROCK THE BITCOIN, SOMETHING LIKE THAT

AND SO ON THE BITCOIN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS — I’M NOT TRYING TO MILWAUKEE A JOKE HERE. THERE ARE USE CASES, FRAUD, ANTIMONEY LAUNDERING, TAX AVOIDANCE, SEX TRAFFICKING, THOSE ARE REAL USE CASES AND YOU SEE IT BEING USED FOR HUNDREDS, MAYBE 50, $100 BILLION A YEAR

FOR THAT THAT IS THE END USE CASE EVERYTHING ELSE IS PEOPLE TRADING AMONG THEMSELVES NOW, OKAY, NOW MY LAST STATEMENT, THE LAST TIME I’M TALKING ABOUT BITCOIN IS I DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO DO BITCOIN. I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT IS OKAY. I DON’T WANT TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO

SO MY PERSONAL ADVICE IS DON’T GET INVOLVED BUT I DON’T WANT TO TELL ANY ONE OF YOU TO DO, IT IS A FREE COUNTRY. >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE OTHER FIRMS, THE BLACKROCKS OF THE WORLD AND LARRY FINK CHANGED HIS VIEW OF THIS OBVIOUSLY AND MAYBE

HE CHANGED HIS VIEW BECAUSE YOU THINK HE GENUINELY BELIEVES IN BITCOIN OR BELIEVES IT BECAUSE HE THINKS THERE IS A MARKETPLACE FOR IT AND HE WANTS TO BE PART OF THE MARKET. THERE IS ABOUT A DOZEN BIG FINANCIAL COMPANIES, FIDELITY INCLUDED — >> NUMBER ONE, I DON’T CARE.

JUST PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT HE WOULD SAY ABOUT BLOCKCHAIN VERSUS CURRENCIES THAT DO SOMETHING VERSUS BITCOIN THAT DOES NOTHING. MAYBE THAT IS NOT DIFFERENT THAN ME BUT THIS IS WHAT MAKES THE MARKET PEOPLE HAVE OPINIONS THIS IS THE LAST TIME I’M EVER STATING MY OPINION

>> GOLD REALLY DIDN’T DO ANYTHING EITHER. >> YEAH, BUT GOLD IS LIMITED IN SUPPLY. >> SO IS BITCOIN. >> SO YOU THINK SO, HUH? >> I DO. >> I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE BITCOIN, WE GET TO 20 MILLION BITCOINS THAT — THAT SATOSHI

WILL COME ON THERE, LAUGH HYSTERICALLY, GO QUIET, ALL BITCOIN WILL BE ERASED HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS GOING TO STOP AT — I HAVEN’T MET ONE PERSON WHO I MET THAT SAID — >> IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THE LAST ONE MINED IN — AND IT

GETS HARDER AND HARDER JAMIE, LOOKING BACK OVER — >> YOU DO WHAT YOU WANT AND I’LL DO WHAT I WANT. >> I LOVE YOU AND I DON’T WANT TO — I DON’T WANT TO BE A — >> YOU MAY BE RIGHT. I DON’T OWN GOLD >> COUPLE OF QUICK FINAL

QUESTIONS. >> I LIKE THINGS THAT PAY ME INCOMES, THAT DOESN’T COST MONEY TO CARRY IT COSTS MONEY TO CARRY BITCOIN. >> WE TALKED ABOUT COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE HERE IN DAVOS. A BIG PIECE ON SUNDAY — >> I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER RISK TO BITCOIN IF YOU CAN’T SOLVE THE BAD USE

CASES, THE GOVERNMENT IS PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO CLOSE IT DOWN. >> THE THING ABOUT THE MONEY LAUNDERING — HERE’S THE — THE NUMBER WAS 20,000 I THINK FOR U.S. DOLLARS IN MONEY LAUNDERING AND IT WAS 35 FOR HOW MUCH IS DONE WITH BITCOIN.

AT THIS POINT, THE DOMINANT — I KNOW, BUT THE DOMINANT — HISTORICALLY THE DOMINANT CURRENCY FOR MONEY LAUNDERING HAS BEEN — >> I UNDERSTAND. >> OKAY. >> QUICKLY, COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE. >> YEAH. >> YOU HAVE A TAKE WE HAVE BEEN TALKING TO A NUMBER

OF INVESTORS WHO HAVE BEEN SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT THAT IT MEANS TO THE DEBT MARKETS, WHAT IT MEANS TO SOME OF THE SMALLER BANKS, YOU HAVE A BIG BUILDING GOING UP, BY THE WAY, IN NEW YORK. BUT THE THREE DAY WEEK, WHAT THAT MEANS LONGER TERM

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE VALUE OF OLD STUFF, OLD FINANCIAL ASSETS IN AMERICA IS LIKE $140 TRILLION, COMMERCIAL OFFICE REAL ESTATE IS LIKE $1.2 TRILLION $600 BILLION ON BANK BOOKS CORPORATE OWNED AND STUFF LIKE THAT DIVIDE INTO THREE PIECES IF WE HAVE A SOFT LANDING, WHICH

IS POSSIBLE, AND RATES DON’T GO HIGHER, WHICH IS POSSIBLE, COULD BE A SMALL PROBLEM IF WE HAVE A HARD LANDING, AND RATES DON’T GO HIGHER, A BIGGER PROBLEM. IF WE HAVE A HARD LANDING WITH HIGHER RATES WHICH I THINK IS POSSIBLE, IT WILL BE A BIGGER PROBLEM.

>> BECAUSE INFLATION GOES UP, EVEN — >> INTEREST RATES ARE, LIKE, CONSTANT ANYTHING WITH CASH FLOW IS WORTH LESS THERE IS A RECESSION, LESS NEED FOR SPACE AND ALL THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN RECESSION AND STUFF LIKE THAT. AND I DON’T KNOW HOW IT IS GOING

TO AFFECT — WORK FROM HOME IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT THING. OUR BUILDING IS UNBELIEVABLE IF YOU’VE SEEN IT, WALK BY. >> IT IS GOING UP QUICK. >> I’VE TOLD YOU THIS MANY TIMES, YOU SAID ONE TIME, I’M JUST BARELY A DEMOCRAT TODAY ALL THE THINGS YOU SAID

ABOUT MAGA, WHAT YOU’RE SAYING IS REALLY TO TRY TO HELP THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BECAUSE IT IS TOUGH LOVE IS WHAT YOU’RE USING YOU ARE NOT MAGA YOU’RE NOT GOING TO TURN INTO A REPUBLICAN, I DON’T THINK. BUT YOU REALIZE — >> I WOULD SAY I HAVE A DEMOCRATIC HEART AND A

REPUBLICAN BRAIN. >> EXACTLY >> I DO THINK MORE AND MORE THE REPUBLICANS THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BIG HEARTS AND VERY SMALL BRAINS THEY SHOULD BE A LITTLE MORE THOUGHTFUL ABOUT POLICY AND HOW THINGS WORK. >> IF ON THE FRONT END ALL THE THINGS YOU’RE DOING TO TRY AND

HELP PEOPLE ACTUALLY ON THE BACK END END UP HURTING THEM, YOU NEED TO COP TO THAT SOME DAY, EVENTUALLY, AND THEY DON’T. >> I’LL COME CONFESS HERE. >> NOT YOU I’M SAYING THE — I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU. THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO SAY, LOOK,

WE TRIED ALL THESE THINGS AND WE MADE THINGS WORSE. SO, AT LEAST COP TO IT. >> I WANT TO POINT, WHEN I GO TO D.C. ALL THE TIME, WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON THE WING NUTS THERE ARE A LOT OF CENTRIST REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, WHO IF

THEY SAT HERE — >> MIGHT BE 80%. >> I DON’T UNDERSTAND, LIKE — >> PARTIALLY YOU INVITE THE WING