Alex Black on Rio2’s Fenix Gold Project: Resolving Disputes, Construction Plans

Alex Black is the Executive Chairman of Rio2 and their Fenix Gold Project. It is a large open pit gold oxide heap leach project in Chile. It tops out at 16,000 feet above sea level, and has 4.8 million ounces of gold measured and indicated. The project was put on hold for 18 months by a family of chinchillas and the local government. The dispute was resolved on December 20 2023, and now Rio2 is doing financing. They look to start construction Q4 2024. Thank you for watching! Support the show and hit the like button. Join In it to Win it by subscribing and hitting the bell notification icon to be notified of future episodes. Welcome to the hive!

Rio2 Website: https://www.rio2.com/
Alex Black Email: alex.black@rio2.com
Alex Black Twitter: https://twitter.com/BlackAlex58

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Chapters
00:00 Intro – Past Successes
1:30 Chariot Resources / Rio Alto
3:25 Fenix Gold – EIA
5:27 Chinchillas on the Chart
9:15 Rio Alto vs Rio2
13:30 Financing
18:45 Gold Deposit and Expansion
20:23 Getting Water to the Mine
23:55 High Altitude Mining 16,000 feet
26:33 Timeline to Production
28:58 Returning Employees
31:00 $RIO / $RIOFF
33:00 Heap Leach Mining Technology
35:44 Expansion Study
37:14 Contact Alex

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Welcome to in it to win it this is Steve Barton and thank you for tuning in and thank you for allowing us to do work that we find meaningful thank you for giving us the most valuable commodity that you have your attention we promise

To do our very best to give you a return on it today we have Alex black executive chairman for Rio 2 a gold developer down in Chile Alex has had two successful projects in South America and now he’s working on his third the Phoenix Gold project this is a large open pit

Lowgrade Heap Leach mine Alex thank you for coming on the show uh thanks for having me Steve good yes sir yes sir I’m pretty excited about this one we uh have been following your company for uh probably two and a half years or so um

Go ahead and give us a little bit of background in in your experience and you came to South America in your early 40s uh you’ve already done two two successful projects with uh uh a lot of the same team maybe just kind of give us a couple minutes on your background and

And and now you’re working on your third yeah I mean you’re right I I came uh to South America Peru specifically back in uh 2000 it’s been nearly 24 years now and yes you’re right I was in my early 40s now I’m in my mid

60s um but um did a couple of things in in the um resource space um back in the early 2000s it was charot Resources with a copper project in Peru which is now uh in production belongs to a couple of big companies and uh and then after that I

Moved on and and established a company called Rio Alto mining uh and we acquired the Lena project in in Peru which was a gold oxide heat bleach project um put that into production uh did did very well with that from an operating perspect perspective uh then we acquired saladan during the process

And their sha window gold project in Peru which we also uh put into into construction and uh but during the construction phase we we were approached by Taha resources who made a a pretty good offer for the company of 1.2 billion Canadian and we decided to to sell the company

Um um I I was with Taho for a period of time but it it just didn’t work out and I decided I wasn’t done so I formed rio2 and most of the people the operational people that we had within Rio Alto mining were let go by by the

Taco guys which was good for me because I picked them up straight away and uh so we’ve got the same development team that put l rer and sha window into production within Rio 2 um then in 2018 we were looking for projects we came uh across atakama Pacific actually in

27 uh we consummated a deal with atakama Pacific in 2018 mid 2018 they had what was then called The Sarah marunga gold mine or project uh in Chile we decided to rename that to Phoenix Gold only because the marunga name is used quite extensively amongst the number of projects

And in that area so we wanted to distinguish the project from that so we we renamed it Phoenix Gold um and from that point we completed an eia uh or Baseline studies eia and um and then the nightmare started for us when when there was a change of government in Chile um

That really all I can say is interfered in the um in the process for the adjudication of our eia so people understand e in Chile are done at the regional level there’s no federal government input it’s it’s it’s all regional government input and so unfortunately this new

Government came into power they had a very big initially a big sort of En environmental slash almost anti- mining uh stance and uh our project was one of the first new projects that was put on the table and and of course they latched on to it and said no we’re going to stop

This from from happening um and then you know we got into an appeal process which is which is what what is the required steps to take once you get rejected um which was in front of a committee of ministers which happened in December mid December 20th of December I

Think it happened and lo and behold we were approved um so after 18 months of being stopped uh we were approved and we did nothing extra to validate the reason why we should be approved all we did was justify that we had followed the entire process as

Prescribed that there was no impact on and this was all centered around chin sheers right so there was no impact on chin cheers at our project there were chin cheers identified by us in a valley next to the project but not you know not going to be influenced by by what we do

At the project so you know it was a it was typically a political scenario that we just ran into and and it really did a lot of damage to our company because our share price at the time uh when the decision was made um in uh mid

200 uh oh I’m lost track of time but uh I I could pull it up right here Alex we can see that we were just coasting right along and right around here we’re like ooh we’re 18 months from production and this is when the Chilean big thinkers

Said Oh no you’re not we’re worried about these chinchillas right here is that that that’s a great that’s a great graph to explain what happened yes yeah and then you’ve slowly been kind of grinding sideways and now boom that’s when you uh got approval so it’s it

Looks like we kind of reset the clock right yeah but still if you look at that graph you know we’ve only recovered up to half of what we lost yeah so there was a lot of damage done um I can’t stress enough and I always talk about

This um to to shareholders and on social media you know the the value of time in relation to money is is huge in this sector right so being delayed 18 months then going in into high interest rate environment obviously yes a high gold price environment but the risk appetite for

Gold Juniors is just disappeared right I mean well there nobody wants to take the risk and there’s a lot of competition as we all know with lithium with uranium with Bitcoin and with lots of technology and lots of other things so but that’s impacted us because we

Haven’t been able to recover um what we lost uh quickly anyway I think over time we should be able to recover it but it’s just sad and it’s been you know tough time for shareholders um uh I’ve had I’ve dealt with a lot of um emails and inquiries and discussions

Etc with shareholders about how we get out of this and now all I can say is you know we’ve got our approval and now we’ve we got to claw back what we lost and get this project Advanced as we were planning to do and the good thing is

This is a development project the eia is approved so we can now progress to financing and um eventual construction of the project okay well um you did uh uh have to build just just a little area for the chinchillas and make sure that they’re going to be uh nice and taking

Care of uh while you’re uh while you’re doing your mining out there sot for him I can’t I can’t believe the this sort of stuff and and the memes that I’ve seen on Twitter in respect to Chin I mean it’s been it’s been it’s it’s been a fun part of going through

This whole painful process and and seeing that people do have a sense of humor related to to what we’re going through and obviously there is a a funny side to it you know probably perversely but um uh I love that that’s a great image it took me way too long to make

That to not bring it up so I had to pull it up that’s a great image good stuff okay so what I hear you saying okay you’ve you’ve had two projects in the past Chariot and Rio Alto and uh Rio Alto was a very similar project right a gold

Oxide Heap Leach and you were able to take a lot of your team from that successful project and bring over here to rio2 correct and um what what are some of the similarities between those two two projects okay so what we had in Rio Alto were two gold

Oxide run of mine Heap Leach projects run of Mind means you don’t have to crush right so you blow up the material you put it in a truck take it to the leech pad and you leech it and if you’ve got the right characteristics middle allergically and also the ability to to

Fracture the material into you know smallest sizes yeah that way you don’t have to break it down anymore yeah they have to break it down and if you know if we can get it down to five to 10 inches and with the characteristic of the material um it’s porous and it allows

The um the cyanide to leech through the uh the rock you can get um you know very good recoveries and in our case we’re planning on achieving um an overall recovery of about 75% in the case of L it was about 85% shinda I’m not sure now because we never we

Never took that into operation it was Taco and now belongs to Pan-American silver um but um you know so we know how to do run of mine oxide leeching and so when we saw um the Phoenix deposit when we when we acquired atacar Pacific we we thought wow this looks pretty similar

You know there’s a lot of interesting similarities to this um at L rer and Sh window you have epithermal uh gold related to intrusives what we have at Phoenix is a breated volcanic and so when you look at photos of Phoenix and you will see a

Couple on our website uh it’s an old extinct volcano and the and you’re going to show one now good man oh there is you can see it looks like a volcano it looks like a giant volcano that’s it and so um it’s an extinct volcano and the interesting

Characteristic about this as opposed to other deposits in the marunga region is this is entirely oxide the deepest hole is 600 meters below the surface and still in oxide and that’s good because a lot of the deposits in the marunga region are oxide leech cap transition zone and sulfides and usually associated with

Pories not the case here at at Phoenix so it’s it’s a different animal but that lends itself to Simplicity and what you know what I like about the gold industry if you can find the right deposit is it can be a simple business right a very simple business and so that’s what we

Have here we’ve got a very simple uh deposit um the capex we did a feasibility study um that was um filed sort of in October last year um updated all the capital costs Etc I mean the remaining Capital that we have to spend on this project is 135 million us which

In relative terms and I’ve been looking at lots of gold projects belonging to developers at the moment you know we’re way down on the on the um Capital intensity um graph from from a point of view of comparatives um so the lifting what I call the lifting which is the equity

Raising and financing that we’re going to have to do for this project given everything I mean because the world’s changed but given everything should be relatively straightforward but you know we still got to climb that mountain yet okay yeah maybe we can move on to numbers uh market cap and cash position

Now wof market cap I think from a US dollar perspective is about 70 million cash is just under 5 million us we did really well I mean and I think a lot of shareholders and people that beinging following us will know that we did no financings during that 18-month

Hiatus we internally funded ourselves by selling some non-core royalties and also Ling back some tax credits in Chile and we cut back our GNA dramatically um on on on this happening so we did quite well and um you know going forward um we’re probably going to have

To do a small financing in the not too distant future when I say four small maybe 5 million us or something like that um and and then do the equity financing for the project once we know what the other financiers when I say other financiers is Banks or funds or

Whoever is going to finance us and we’re going through that process now um what potential Equity component may be related to that financing okay do you uh so 5 million cash do is the deal still on for 25 mil from um wheat and precious metals at approval of the okay yeah technically

Technically it is I mean what happened was was that we signed up a deal with Wheaten back in early 2022 right in anticipation that we were going to get our eia approval and we were going to roll into into production that was for $50 million uh half of which was uh Advanced

To us um uh on signing and then the other half was to follow the eia approval and of course that was you know stretched out over a long period of time we now have to sit down with weaton and go through the um terms of the contract not not for the money side

But really for the fact that we won’t be delivering any gold to the Gold Stream that we committed to until potentially the end of next year right which is 2025 so yes technically we should be able to draw on additional 25 million from Wheaten when we want to since we’ve got

This approval um but we’re going to wait and see how how we can re renegotiate this this stream with them and also what the rest of the financing is going to look like which we never got to in 222 we’re now working with Endeavor Financial who are our financial advisors

They’re doing a great job um they now that we’ve got approval we will be uh sounding Out various lenders Etc in respect to uh financing this project okay so if someone was interested in um uh you know financing without uh being retail uh What uh what would you say to them well money’s

Money you know um look I think what you’re seeing in the market and what people are expecting these days is potentially for a strategic to get involved right in in in a mining asset that belongs to a junior could that happen to us maybe I mean I I I don’t

Know um if a fund or a strategic was to say look you know we’ll give you X Dollar in in you know towards the equity component of your financing we’d have to listen for sure and um you know so yeah we’re we’re open-minded I think I’ve said that in public before that we’re

Open-minded to all sorts of options as far as financing this project goes I mean unfortunately you know we’re talking about $135 million in total that’s including working capital including uh contingency Etc it’s not a lot of money but it it may as well be you know half a billion dollars you know

Because it is still hard work and and um you know this this this junior gold market is not easy it’s not easy okay well maybe we’ll have a big kick up in gold price and and that’ll resur some interest U yeah I think if we

See if we see a a new level and and Gold’s tried tried I mean it’s still above 2,000 so you know we shouldn’t complain and and producers are making money hand over fist so it’s it’s it’s a pretty good environment thing is if we see gold move up $500 from where it is

Today and stay there for a period of time I think you’ll start to see maybe a shift in sentiment um but you know I don’t know I don’t know I don’t see it yet yeah okay uh so as far as uh some more of the numbers uh measured and

Indicated 4.8 million ounces inferred 1 million uh proven and probable 1.8 uh so you’ve got uh uh yeah and that’s 1.8 on the stter project right right so um people what people got to imagine is that let’s say that’s our reserve and we mine to that 1.8 shell

Underneath there we got nearly 3 million ounces and I mean right underneath it now the reason it’s only 1.8 million ounces is because our our stup project anticipates a production throughput rate of 20,000 tons a day of aut to pad and um and and that goes on for nearly 17

Years and produces let’s let’s say on average about 100,000 ounces a year so you know that’s okay um we do it at an Asic of about 1250 at this stage um our biggest input costs are labor and fuel um and um you know let’s let’s let’s see what happens but one thing

I’ve been talking about is that this year we’ll also uh look at an expansion study for the project and and where we imagine this project going from is from 20,000 tons a day of autopad to 80 to 100,000 tons so four to five times more um and and and technically it

Should withstand that but the biggest constraint on that is water and in our first phase of of production we’re Trucking the water to the project and people go well why are you doing that well it’s the quickest way of getting this project built and it’s the quickest way of drisking this

Project it’s not optimal as I say to people you you know if we had a choice we wouldn’t do it but being in Chile and knowing that it’s very difficult to get um uh approval to pull water from the ground uh it’s it’s it’s it’s difficult so we’ve taken years off the development

Of this project by tracking water to it and the and the the ultimate phase for its expansion would be to bring water up and I’m talking about desel water from Copo which is which is our nearest Regional Center to the project 140 km by pipe and that’s the study we want to do

Is to determine how we’re going to do that are there third parties that can do that for us do we have to pay any of the capex what is the Opex likely to be but I can say very confidently the Opex is going to reduce considerably due to the fact that

We’re taking this Trucking scenario out of the equation and so um once that study is put on the table people can see wow this project can grow to 250 to 300,000 ounces a year and the costs come down because it’s you know bog mining unit costs come down and it looks like a

Pretty pry pretty damn interesting project at that stage okay so so the first that was going to be another question from Jordan uh on expansion uh so you’re starting out with the the first phase is 20,000 tons per day and you’re going to accomplish that by taking Wastewater

From copia po uh Trucking it up there you know which isn’t good for taking a shower but it’s great for for leeching gold then you’re going to uh uh once you got that up and running and and you’ve proven uh that it works Works you’re you

Got in the works now um uh getting a um uh permission to pipe it up there which will do away with all the trucks and all the fuel exp well not all the fuel expenses but a lot of the fuel expenses in uh bringing the water up there is

That accurate spot on spot okay and and and so you know that is nice to be able to do when I say nice we’ve got manageable capex at $135 million for the start of project and you know the expansion Capital as we did at L rer and we did it

Well well shell window is a different story but let’s say Lena we started Lena at 10,000 tons a day autopad it we quickly expanded it over two or three years to about 50 odd, tons of autopad and um you know the the production rate went from tens of

Thousands of oun to 200 220,000 oun a year and so we know how to do that we’ve done it before incremental expansion of gold oxide run and mine heat leas projects so I think people should be very comfortable about how we’re approaching this project and because of

Our track record in the past we know what we’re doing in in handling this this type of project okay um you know what what was the altitude at uh uh at at Rio Alto okay so L Raina was and sha window were about the same altitude they were about three and a

Half th000 meters above sea level 3 33 to 35 Phoenix is is between 46 and 49 so we’re a lot higher is is there any um uh I guess um what’s what’s the word uh um you know things that uh challenges that could be with that like with the uh Heap

Le it’s got a freeze up there right do you have to put the leech lines underneath the ground oh yeah I mean you got to bury you got to bury the reticulation of you know in the leech pad um you know there’s a lot of knowledge of dealing with that there are

You know if you look at Fort knock in Alaska that’s a heap Leach Gold Mine belongs to Kin Ross uh Bal Mountain Round Mountain kin Ross projects as well low grade um in the case of uh uh Bald Mountain I think it is is run of mine hi

Bleach um so you know there there are there there’s knowledge about that the what we’re dealing with and there’s not a lot of snow at that that altitude where we are but what it does do is get cold right and winds are and and cold is

Is something we have to deal with so yeah I mean we have to have a wits about us and and then the other thing is you know working at that attitude like at 46 to 49 you know the the impact of altitude to The Operators is something that we’re

Mindful of uh we saw it at 3 and a half thousand so we got to be mindful at 4649 um you know but there’s all sorts of steps you need to take from an operational perspective to to minimize the risk of of of you know harm to uh to workers at those

Altitudes um but the thing that that’s coming and you know is already in place is automated mining you know where where nobody drives a trucks you know they’re they’re all run by some guy sitting sitting with a joystick in in an office somewhere so you know I think with time

We’re going to see um and particularly when we move to bigger trucks uh on the expansion case uh moving that big quantity of material um you know I think we might see some Automation and other things happen in in the project awesome uh okay we got uh questions from

Leland Mike and Cat which are basically asking the same thing you kind of touched on it uh timeline to production you’re thinking end of uh 2025 yeah I mean it really depends on the financing um what we’re looking for is the ability we’re looking for a construction window

And that construction window in Chile at those elevations is between September October and and March April and so we’re in one now but we’re not going to finance it anytime soon so we got to wait for the next window which is next September October right so that’s 8 to

10 months away if we can get the right sort of financing in place and we jump into that window we should be uh producing gold towards the end of 2025 um so so that’s that’s the target uh can we achieve it really just depends on money

Right so uh I mean if we were fully F financed now we’d be gearing up to to jump into that window um as early as possible the good thing that’s happening right now in South America good from our point of view bad for agriculturists and and other other

People is that we’re we’ve we’ve got a very strong elino happening in in in South America and I think it’s impacting North America and it impacts everything but what happened was in this summer window there’s I mean in the last winter that’s just finished there was very

Little snow very little snow in fact I think there was hardly any so let’s say no snow and that was because of El Nino now if that carries on and I think this is going to be a strong El Nino when we go into the next winter after we start

Production it’s if we if we get the same conditions that’s going to work in our favor just means we’ve got a little less that we’ve got to work around um you know from a snow perspective when it snows up there it’s like that thick okay it’s not meters it’s not

Meters okay all right so as far as realistic production you can’t even start until September so hopefully you can get all the financing in between now and then and then you’ll be able to start building uh this coming September exactly exactly okay um yarmo wants to know uh when you reach

The restaffing stage any feel of how many of your previous hires are going to be returning to Rio 2 I think a lot um it was really sad because in 22 when that we were stopped we just recruited about 80 um operational Personnel in Chile all Chileans and our objective in our

Culture of our business and we did this with Rio Alto is to employ young people and good bright young people that ordinarily don’t get a chance but uh because they you know they got to start at the bottom and you know they they get you know controlled by

Whoever’s above them in our case we look for bright young people and we give them you know we like to delegate responsibility and give them that so they found these 80 people who who only spent like a couple of months with us because they were just new recruits they

They thought our culture was fantastic our you know they wanted to work for our company it was completely different to what they were experiencing elsewhere but unfortunately we had to let them go so they’ve all gone off to other things but a lot of them are saying whenever

You guys are ready we want to come back so that’s a really good nice uh feedback that we have and and and yes the door will be open for those people but we will be recruiting in Chile um and and and even though our technical team is

Based in Lima Peru which is where I live um and Andrew Cox our our CEO he lives in Lima uh we um that team is really an oversight team um and the operational team will bu Beach Lions on the ground in in in Chile okay that’s good news that that is

A pretty powerful leadership method is to uh give them more responsibility most people want to take it okay anyone uh wants to anyone but myself wants to know ever thought about a dual listing Alex so maybe we can just hit on real quick uh you guys are on the

Um essentially the Peruvian stock exchange under Roo you’re under the Toronto Stock Exchange under Roo and you’re under over-the-counter R IO FF uh have you guys thought of expanding out to any other exchanges not really um I I saw that question come in on Twitter and it came

From a guy in the UK um and and I can understand him thinking well you know could this be listed on AIM no not really the cost of doing that and the benefit of doing that is really not there for us I think nowadays with the ability of anybody to buy stocks in

Different different jurisdictions it shouldn’t be a big restriction for people to buy stocks in in in Canada and or you know on the otcqx in in in the US Lima Stock Exchange listing was you know predominantly for anybody who was interested and we we had a very successful lima lima listing with Rio

Alto so we decided to follow up um I mean if we did if we did business elsewhere Australia we’d get a listing in Australia of course if we were doing business in Australia as well as what we’re doing now um but that’s not on the cards anytime soon UK I think UK’s more

Africa you know the stands sort of you know is you know is more attracted to to that jurisdiction than it is to South America or or or um or or Asia Etc which is where there are other markets uh more suitable for those uh those assets okay and fern wanted to know

About um you guys had some type of new technology right uh to to pull this uh gold using the Heap Leach process what what was that yeah it wasn’t our technology it was a technology that belonged to a listed company called sixth wave and they’re listed on the TSX

V I think Venture exchange and sixth wave have developed a polymer that replaces the need for carbon in the uh gold extraction part of the the processing plant so we pump our pregnated uh sanide through the plant through um tanks that are um are full of carbon um

And and the gold sticks to the carbon and then you strip the carbon of the goal that’s a simple explanation of how how leeching in tanks Works um what they provide is an alternative solution to polymers instead of carbon and we we started to investigate that prior to

Being stopped and it looked good you know it looked like a good alternative we we got to a point where we didn’t quite know what the cost benefit was going to be of carbon ver because carbon you’ve got to um renew um um cook it up again uh clean it out and

And and then you got to replace it with this stuff with the polymers it what we understand is you don’t have to replace uh as often so there’s some sort of cost benefit analysis they also claimed there was a few percentage points of better recovery um in that process so we’ll

Probably reinitiate our discussions with those people we were always thinking that if this technology was was something we’d like to get involved in that we would implement it during the expansion of the project not the start of the project so the start of the project will will be conventional carbon

In tanks but the expansion may be polymer in tanks if we can uh come up with a a reasonable cost benefit analysis that that justifies it okay so when you’re starting out use what you know works and then if uh if you you know keep it simple right you know this

Business is Tough Enough and um you want to stick to what you know and then try out a few things as you get further down the track yeah now do you have a date on when you’re going to stud uh publish the the expansion study or is that a little

I mean we we what we’re relying on is third party water suppliers now obviously the the company that we get this retreated water from this retreated effluent they could be a supplier but there’s a couple of um uh projects uh being prepared in Copo by third- party desel water

Suppliers and they’re looking to form a business around providing water to multiple mines in different locations so they they build a Dell plant at the coast po copy of PO is about 50 km from the post uh from the coast they pump the um salty water to

The desell plant they store the water in reservoirs in Cobo and then they pump them up to whoever their um um users are so so that’s a concept that’s being developed right now and there’s there’s a couple of people very Advanced with that um and um so it just depends on

When we get some real cost data from those people so that we can put into a uh a sensible study okay so you don’t have enough information yet to to really do it I I don’t have idea of timing yet yeah it it’s dependent on other factors outside of your control exactly exactly

Yeah okay awesome well thank you Alex if uh anyone was interested in investing with your company what’s the best way to get a hold of you yeah look I I I like to give out my email address it’s alex. rot 2.com um you you can you can people can

Email me anytime I will always respond um you know we’re we’re an open book uh we we try and be as transparent as we can with everybody um happy to answer questions um you know and I’ll answer quickly I won’t um you know drag it out

For for days or weeks um so yeah that’s the best way uh we’re updating our corporate uh presentation right now so there’s there is none on this on the website um there is the feasibility study that we published last year etc etc and there’s quite a lot of

Information on the project but I need to get a corporate presentation updated and uh because of Christmas and vacation time that’s sort of slipped but hopefully by the end of the month we’ll have corporate presentation on the website and people can read that but but reach out anytime you like thank you

Awesome we will put a link to your email in the show notes below and to the website Alex thank you very much for coming on the show we wish you the best of luck we are literally betting on it so uh we wish you the best sir I’m

Betting on it too but thanks Steve and and uh look hopefully I can come back when we’ve got something to talk about I really like to to to to to get on these sorts of interviews when I have something to talk about otherwise what’s the point I’ve been rather quiet for the

Last 18 months because there’s been nothing to talk about um but we’re back um It’s Our intention to build a m at Phoenix Gold as quickly as we can um and when we’ve got something to talk about that and our ability to do that I’ll be back awesome well thank you and thank

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