Bitcoin Mining Around the World with Seb Gouspillou (SLP543)

Sébastien Gouspillou is a French Bitcoin miner, entrepreneur, and speaker. He is the CEO of BBGS (Big Block Green Services) and he joins me to talk about Bitcoin mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Oman and elsewhere around the world:

Timestamp:

– Bitcoin mining in the DRC
– Bitcoin mining in Oman
– Using various forms of energy
– Working in different environments
– Narrative shifts in Bitcoin Mining and Proof of Work

00:00 – Introduction and Background
02:34 – Challenges and Risks in the Congo
04:30 – Bitcoin Mining in Virunga National Park
09:28 – Performance and Investment in the DRC
14:10 – Economic Opportunities and Job Creation
23:31 – Bitcoin Mining in Oman
28:05 – Challenges of Solar-Powered Mining
31:38 – Bitcoin Mining in the Middle East
41:30 – Mining Potential in Africa
45:05 – Energy Sources
47:37 – The Environmental Impact of Bitcoin Mining
55:35 – Closing Thoughts

Links:
– X: @SebGouspillou : https://twitter.com/SebGouspillou
– Site: bbgsmining.com :https://t.co/JPywlEoHfx

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Hi this is Stefan laa podcast a show brought to you by swann.com today my guest is Seb GPU he is the CEO of BB GS that’s big block green Services he’s a French Bitcoin miner entrepreneur and speaker and we’re talking today about his experiences with Bitcoin mining around the world in some very

Interesting uh situations so notably he speaks about Bitcoin mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in Oman as well as elsewhere around the world here’s my show with Seb Seb welcome to the show I know you’re doing a lot of interesting things and uh I’ve seen you referred to as the Indiana Jones of Bitcoin mining so welcome to the show thank you so much uh it’s an h no so let’s talk a little bit about

Your work in Bitcoin mining and you started uh we’ve got some it looks like you’ve got you know you’ve got operations you know around the world but we’ll start with uh the Congo I think that would be really interesting for listeners so can you tell us how did you

End up going to the Congo and how did you get in touch with Emanuel de marro H it was at the beginning of 2020 I was contacted by a French Constructor of hydrop power plants uh he told me that the provider of green electricity in Africa was interested in mining uh in

Bitcoin mining and he purposed meeting up at a chatau in not far from my home so we went with my associate adri it was a little bit mysterious because we we didn’t know exactly who was the this this client who was this guy from Africa and so during the the

Meeting uh we discover that the C was the boss of the virunga park in Congo in DRC uh and we discover his project mining at a new Hydro power plant later on the train home we looked online and saw who this incredible man was uh a prince of Belgium Emanuel de merod and

We saw that Thea was the most dangerous Park National Park in the world so weren’t you scared about going and operating in the Congo Emanuel and his teams were real Fighters for the environment um true heroes and they were asking us for help so um if he and his staff could work

There why couldn’t we so we were not scared no we we just went okay and as you know from what I’ve read it sounds like there is a rebel militia in the territory or M23 or others can you explain a little bit there of course the the M23 are very

Present uh they mainly occupy the rongo area it was the the headquarters of the virunga so they have to move the the structure but you don’t have only the M23 you you have the ADF uh from Uganda who are the most bloodthirsty group you have the FDL a uh ran group who are

Enemies of the M23 but that’s isn’t all there is the codec Cod the fpi the fplc the L the jungle is infested with reel troops gangs in fact who leave from ping illegal fishing and racketeering there are 125 130 groups armed groups operating there including the mayi and the mayi there

Are the small local groups who are even just the plant where we work on the louu river yeah so there is definitely a threat there so let’s talk a little bit as you mentioned the veranga national park can you explain a little bit about the context of this opportunity to go and do

Bitcoin mining there it was simple it’s a global project um from Emanuel the project is to to create 100 and 10 megawatt in the region now they’re opening a new plant so they will reach 60 megawatt and when they when they open the last one on L louo River um they are

Not ready be because um uh how to how to explain U at the completion of the plant uh um it was a very difficult period for the park financially uh ecoist couldn’t continue as normal firstly because of Ebola and then covid and so income dropped by 40%

For the park and at the same moment in the region surrounding the new plant be began to become dangerous with considerably which considerably delayed the deployment of the network you you can pull the line when it’s it’s War it’s very difficult to to send electrician in the in the forest they are targets

So uh the revenue expected from the sell of electricity is zero um and that was when Emmanuel um heard about mining as the last resort customer for hydroelectricity and he contacted me at this moment I see and so as I’m understanding in in many cases and maybe in this case

It’s using Surplus energy to mine Bitcoin so was that the basic argument here or the basic uh case here yes it’s exactly what we we used to do everywhere but in this place it was particular because it it was 100% of the capacity of production um um unuseful uh

He had nothing to do with this electricity at this moment now they are pulling the lines and um with we we take only 10 megawatts on the 15 so they have the capacity to to send electricity to people and the project is to reduce the mining um years after years as soon as

It’s as it is possible so we we buy the electricity very cheap and as soon as they are in capacity to sell electricity to population to local industry or local factories um we have to to go out it’s a question of profitability I see and so from what I

Understand that there are multiple hydro plants there is there talk some people talk about this idea of having Bitcoin as part of using Bitcoin to make the economic case for more Hydro power plants to be built is that the case here also absolutely not no the all all this project about 110

Megaw supported by the park is to bring electricity to the population for development and slow down deforestation yeah because I did not explain but the idea as the beginning is to stop the deforestation because the the principal energy in in this region in north K is

The maala it’s sh so they cut the trees in the forest to make the charcoal and uh emuel imagine with this new energy the electricity uh they stop to use the charcoal and they stop to to cut the trees it’s it’s really simple so the goal of of these

Hydro power plants is is to give electricity to population not for mining but the top management of the park now know that this economic economic crutch exists um and Mining can be deployed in extreme conditions very rapidly it can be huge or very modest and it can live

Just as easily as it arrives as needed so the creation of a plant in this region will never be justified for Bitcoin alone but the fact of having a customer base is a guarantee that the loan installments are paid and that is a game changer in Africa that is a real game

Changer interesting and so as you mentioned this started in 2020 the mining Bitcoin mining how has it fared since then uh the operation has improved over time we now have um 85 88 um we have an up time of 8 8 88% yes in December and I

Believe this is one of the storus Reg in the world there is lightning every night uh sometimes the lightning is so intense that it seems like daylight at midnight therefore the plant often has to stop but the teams have reduced their intervention time and we are quite proud

Of our result at the end of 2023 85 88% uh is is not so bad in this region yeah and so I’m also curious in terms of upfront capital investment I presume you had to you know the park had to put up some money or potentially you and the

Company had to put up money to get mining rigs was that a challenge there or you know how did that sort of build into the case to do Bitcoin mining there um we share the investment so the idea um uh the park was not at this moment so we invest in the first

Container and we bought uh a second container and we start only with two coners it was the during the bare Market the ax were very cheap so they spent 200 22,000 something like that only and um but now we have 11 containers so the total um investment in something like8 10 million

I see and so then how are you thinking about questions like mining rig useful life right if if if after let’s say four to S years I think or something like this you you’re just going to have to recycle or change uh the mining rigs at that

Point we repair a lot we are so isolated that everything has to be done on site um even the most delicate repairs on site we have some S9 from 2016 so we can say it’s eight years I see yeah so you’re just able to operate with these

Very uh you know old mining rigs by having on-site repairs yeah yes we we stop with the S9 BBG has stop with the S9 but the park continues to to to manage the S9 because they don’t pay the electricity so it’s it’s interesting now yeah interesting and so yeah it’s not a big

Income but it works so they can sell the electricity to the S9 yeah it’s kind of fascinating that it can just happen in this part of the world uh and so what about the threat of as we mentioned earlier militias or gangs was there any threat that they would try to take the

Machines or that they would maybe H threaten the Rangers or the mining operation stuff the myi are interested in in cash and weapons uh only but we can imagine they attack the farm but attacking the farm um it’s attacking the plant because we are on the plant and and the plant is

Guarded by Rangers so it’s risky for for the myi the danger is on the road during the transfers yes we can be attacked at uh every moment wow yeah I mean must be very confronting in that way but I you you have to have armed security and you

Know the ranges uh to protect the machines yeah uh in the farm we are we are it’s a peaceful place but because we are we are with the Rangers but on the road uh the Rangers can be attacked by the mayi and it’s it’s a fun they lost 220

Rangers for 12 years 15 years yeah so it’s it’s very dangerous for the Rangers and if you are close to the Rangers you can you can take a a bullet yes sure yeah confronting but I I guess just looking at the this Congo project that you’ve been doing in veranga park

Overall uh I guess it’s an interesting story isn’t it that this park turned to Bitcoin mining at the time that their revenue was low and they needed ways to make money and this is yeah just a really interesting story I guess do you have any other thoughts to uh close that

Out or any any other um things to just share on the veranga park yes we have a a new project very interesting you know um on the first Power PL Hydro power plant they they built um there’s a big um economical activity now and they they make

Chocolate I don’t know if I gave you a tablet of vong chocolate you mentioned it to me I haven’t I don’t think I got one though but yeah next time so now it’s a big production and they want to increase the production and they need to

Dry the the cocoa beans U with a special dryer an industrial dryer and um we imagine with em Manuel to dry the cocoa beans with a container of mining so we are building this container right now and we can say um in March I think that

All the the chocolate from the vuna park is dried by mining so it will be the the Bitcoin chocolate the real Bitcoin chocolate yeah but it’s really interesting because the the price of um professional dryer of this coco beans is around uh200 $300,000 so it’s expensive and it’s only

A dryer so we we both took together the the small mining container it’s 20 ft so it’s a small one with 180 ax inside uh and it’s profitable immediately so it’s a it’s a win-win dryer yeah and that’s interesting because as I’m sure you have seen there

Are some people who talk about this idea of having Bitcoin mining devices that are also a heater for the home but in this case you’re using the Bitcoin mining to uh for the heating the chocolate yes and and in another place not where we have the farm where we have

The farm we have the same project to dry something but not to dry the cocoa beans to dry the fruits um and you can create the Lether fruits the name is it’s um it’s good to eat very good to eat and you can keep the fruits on the long term

And in Africa you have a lot of fruits it’s a a big resource so they lost a lot of fruits and this this is a a potential um big Factory because you know with the mining we can say okay you take electricity you give money but you don’t create um jobs

And it’s right we have few jobs we have 15 people working directly for the farm um and with the fruits we can imagine to have 200 people working in the factory so now it’s it’s time to find um development with this itat yes sure interesting so it’s not just a mining

Play now it’s also a chocolate uh business business yeah yeah interesting okay but it’s very important because all the project is to give um electricity to stop the deforestation but to give jobs to people uh in in Congo in in North sko you have 75% of young people ear employed so it’s

Very important to to imagine something to give jobs and um the chocolate was a very good idea from Emmanuel and they don’t do only chocolate they they do soup they do oil um so for one megawatt you you you have to think the potential is to create 10,000 jobs for one

Megawatt interesting okay yeah and so that aspect of it is is just keeping sustaining the park uh and trying to create economic opportunities in the area um so I guess there’s you know like you said there’s part of it that’s Bitcoin mining and part of it that’s

Just other things related to how you can use that Hydro power yeah the Bitcoin mining is just a tool for Emanuel he’s not a a bitcoiner at the beginning you know the first time he he told he told me the name the the word Bitcoin Bitcoin because he used to say blockchain the

Blockchain container and uh I think it was um at the beginning of 2021 he called me uh Saturday morning and he told me your Bitcoin is saving the park you you told you told Bitcoin emuel yeah so it was the first time after six months he he used the the word Bitcoin

And not blockchain he understood that Bitcoin was helping the park not the not the blockchain but for him just a tool he’s not a big fan of Bitcoin or something like that they don’t care they sell all the Bitcoin every month to pay the people to pay the runers I see yeah and

With viranga national park has the tourism there come back up now now that you know Co and all that stuff is all the shutdowns is are done yeah now he it’s too dangerous to to continue the Ecco tourism at the moment yeah when when we arrive in 2020

It was dangerous but now it’s it’s the real war everywhere is very very dangerous so for the tourism it’s it’s it’s impossible back to the show in a moment coin kite.com are the makers of my favorite Bitcoin Hardware such as the cold card and they’ve got the upcoming Q

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Sign up on the wait list that’s mempool dospace accelerator and now back to my show with Seb oh interesting okay so they so they really do still need to keep doing Bitcoin mining as well yeah it’s not just like they can sort of dial the Bitcoin mining back down and just go

Back to tourism stuff now they still have to keep doing that yeah at the moment mining is very important as a resource for the park we it’s something like $100,000 month so you can imagine that the government of Congo gives $100,000 a year to the park oh interesting so it it

Really makes a big difference to the financial bottom line or the financial status of the parks for them to do Bitcoin mining yeah abolutely it’s it’s a very very regular income so yes for them it’s it’s really interesting they they like it it was a very good idea

From Emmanuel imagine this guy is is is he is 54 years old my age is in the jungle in the middle of the war and he thinks about Bitcoin mining wow yeah crazy I mean it’s uh yeah definitely different um I know you also are involved in obviously you have

Bitcoin mining projects around the world I know you also have a project in Oman uh so can you tell us a little bit about how you ended up doing Bitcoin mining in Oman yes it was simple we have a friends in the country and one of them contacted

Me in 2021 he was leading a project a big project a data and crypto Hub called the green data city in salala in Oman yeah great right and so this project in green data city is the government involved in that mining project or is this a private project can you explain

That no it’s um public private project the government supports the development of green data City they are facilitating the installation of industrial miners in that location and during the inauguration uh in 2020 2 we had the the minister of um it and transport s Alma uh so he was present

And he made the inauguration of the farm yep interesting yeah we I’ll put up some images of that uh and so just out of curiosity was it hard to get government permission to do Bitcoin mining how early were the discussions around that like you said that was in 2021 and then

2022 mining had started so can you tell us a little bit about getting government permissions there and whether you faced any resistance there at the beginning the green data city was not for Bitcoin was not um the project was not Bitcoin mining the project was um uh data centers

Um but it was not ready for thata data center so we offer to to make mining um and the the the founder of the green data City made the job talking with the authorities with the government and basically now you have to have an official license for green data City

That covers the data and Bitcoin mining Zone and we signed an agreement with them for the installation of proof of concept just after the inauguration in 2022 and so what what is the size of the Bitcoin mining project there and will it grow in the future for us for bbgsd5 we have

Um we have projects in Africa which are more urgent because they are more useful interesting and so are you able to share or if you’re not able to share let us know but what kind of electricity prices are they are you getting in Oman as their prices of electricity to

The miners uh I can say uh the electricity prices are competitive it depends of of the capacity um but the the main criteria is that we have a fixed uh price uh in the in the contract for the next eight years this is one of the reasons why we have chosen that

Country we want to avoid any risk of energy prices um Rising I see yeah so it’s really about the long-term stability that they can give you and what kind of energy is it like what type of energy uh are we talking about here flare gas and solar

Okay interesting yes yeah you know they they don’t have FL gas because they built a big plant a gas plant to to make electricity but they have not enough client for this plant so if they don’t use this electricity they have to to open the the FL gas

So it’s a very logic project they have electricity and if they don’t use the gas they burn the gas I see and so I’m curious as well on the solar aspect does that mean you you obviously must be turning the miners off at night time or

Like is it just you have to try to make the project work only in the time when the sun is shining obviously uh it’s a very good question no in this place we have gas and solar so we can take the solar during the day and the

Gas during the night yep I see okay interesting when you have a a project only on solar it’s exactly as as you say we have to think uh we work only 30% uh of the of the day so we have to to buy very cheap as X but it can work I have

Some um some project in Spain for example working for years oh interesting so I guess it it means you have to use really cheap as6 to make it worthwhile because otherwise you it won’t be profitable on just let’s say 40% you know yes it it was totally impossible 10

Years ago to to make to do mining on the solar plans because you you did not have available cheap a x now we have very cheap ax so we can imagine a very cheap Farm on solar plans it can exist it it exists uh have

I know two Farm like it in Russia and one in Spain so they work only during the the sunny moments and then I wonder does that also get tricky with the seasons right if the you know obviously in summer is best time but then you know

In winter season does that mean you just have to have the mining rigs off more um you want to say inan or yeah I guess just in general it I guess in om man let’s talk about in Oman uh so in om man it’s it’s it’s very interesting

Because there there there is a microclimate in the south of of man in the region of salala where we are um so you end up with between 28 and 30 degrees in July and August while the rest of Middle East is um at 45° um another interesting point um in

Is the presence in this region in salala is the presence of cold deep ocean water um and this can be used for swack the swack is the seawater air conditioning and it will be it will be coming in 2025 in the green data City so the the swack

Reduce reduces The energy needed for cooling by 90% something like but it’s already used in Tai in Hawai in Japan and in France in in Mar for data C classical traditional data center for example so we believe that this location is the B best place for sustainable mining in in V

Region as you reduce the electricity needed for cooling for cooling the machines to to a minimum currently in om man we we use 6% of our electricity for cooling uh and it’s a great achievement in this with I see yeah because I guess that kind of flows into uh another

Question I had about how do you make it work in the climate of Oman because obviously in the Middle East it’s very hot but as you mentioned I guess you’re saying the answer is it’s this region that has a particularly good climate for Bitcoin mining yes when we install the the a

Yes we we got 30° maximum so it was very hot in the containers but uh it was not the same in Dubai when we land in Dubai it was 45 years so it’s not easy to work with 30° but with 45 degrees I don’t know how they

Can do and I visited one Farm in in Dubai and they use the hro system from bitmain and it was a catastroph they use a quantity of water totally crazy in the desert yeah so as you mentioned on Dubai there do you have any thoughts on Bitcoin mining in the Middle East

Generally uh do you do you see it is it’s just going to be hard because of the climate or maybe it’s good for other reasons it’s good because you have a excess of energy as everywhere so the mining is booming in the Middle East at the moment we have just seen a Marat

Open 200 megawatt farm with with their partner 02 and the recent very successful IPO of the Phoenix group at $4 billion they also operate in green data City in om man and there are neighbors on the site I’m I’m bullish of the development of mining in Middle East but of mining

In general mining is useful where there is a exess energy and the mid Middle East has a lot of flare gas a lot of solar plants and they are building a lot of solar plants so yes it’s going to become an important area for mining but

For me it’s in Africa that the potential is the greatest and above all that’s where mining is the most useful Bitcoin mining pays 5 billion a year to the electricity sector in the world and this money will be more useful in Africa than every anywhere else to support access to

Electricity for populations so so that’s where we are we are concentrating our efforts and it’s it is why we are not um in the to develop in a man we prefer to develop in Africa right now I see and as you mentioned you mentioned Spain Russia

Uh Oman the Congo uh yeah so Spain is is not my my project uh is the project from a friend of mine um John he’s a a Spanish Miner and he he opened the farms in in Russia only on solar plants in 2019 yeah and we have we have some

Miners in in Europe yeah and I I’m curious as well your thoughts on stable environment right and what I mean is government environment because as I’m sure you are well aware um and anyone who’s really closely following there was a lot of mining that went to Kazakhstan

And then what happened is Kazakhstan put in a lot of new rules and I believe new taxes that basically chased a lot of the Kazakhstan Bitcoin miners out do you see a similar potential with other countries or do you you know do you see that there’ll be certain countries who are

Going to commit to providing a stable environment or stable rules so that you can have a stable uh you know business case to do Bitcoin mining yes I I know very well the situation in Kazakhstan because we we open the first Farm um in this region in Kazakhstan in

2018 and it was a paradise we take the electricity on the Hydro power plant and we we were alone uh at this moment you had only um one minor from um uh ah I don’t remember the name a builder of AIX um uh Valerie vavilov do you know this

Guy h no no he is the founder of his company so we were the only two miners in the region in Kazakhstan and we saw the many many miners coming from Kazakhstan and from China after the ban and it was very very dangerous when we saw all this Miner coming um without

Regulation we were sure um it will be dangerous at the moment for the network and um in 2020 the the the Govern when the change of government I think it was at the beginning of 2021 they cut the mining um to uh to identify the white minor and

The gray Miners and at this moment we saw it was um dangerous to stay in this country so we moved to Russia all the all the a we had all the containers and we moved to Siberia where we had a a farm for 2 years 3 years at this

Moment so uh now when we come in the country we open the country so we explain to the government the mistakes uh they don’t have to do um if you if you let uh come in the miners um in it’s an anarchy and they take the the electricity everywhere and it can be

Dangerous because they can cut the electricity for populations um so it’s the advice the advice we we gave to the government of BU for example in um in El Salvador we we wrote um a document explaining um they they have to give licenses for mining if um at the beginning we we have

A a smart regulation for mining it’s totally win-win for the country and for the miners I see yeah so it’s about planning out and making sure that you have uh that the government and whoever’s providing the power is planning out for this number of miners I

Guess yeah be because we have to work only on Surplus if we start you know in Kazakhstan the electricity is cheap if you connect on the on the network it’s cheap and it’s it’s enough to to build a mining Farm but it’s not good it’s not an excess electricity it’s cheap because

The government gives help uh people yeah so the electricity is not profitable in the country but um um it’s cheap for people and if the minor come and take all the electricity it’s not good so the government has to be prepared to be ready U if they have very cheap

Electricity they can accept miners but only on the plants where they need miners I see yeah and so if you could just explain a little bit of what happened with Kazakhstan when so my understanding is you know after the China mining band in 2020 was I think it was late 2020 around

September if I recall correctly was it 2021 um either way after that China mining band there was just a massive shift of miners who went there and then I don’t know the exact rules and new regulations and taxes that came in could you just explain a little bit about what

Happened there in you know from the Kazakhstan side I think in in fact they keep the Kazakhstan mind and and they they put out the The Strangers so I I it is what I am understanding but uh I think the new government was afraid about all these miners in the country

And um because we don’t have proof that the mining cut the electricity for people you can read in the newspapers that the miners um uh cause of the miners you had the revolution but um there’s no proof about it but the new government After the Revolution after the the P the the the

Unsuccessful P they decide to cut the mining and to study this uh this business and it was a mistake they have to study the the business before in 2017 when we came yep back to the show in a moment the lead sponsor of this show is swann.com the lead leading Bitcoin only

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Obviously uh excited about the opportunities in Africa do you see a a potential that a similar thing could happen that let’s say lots of Bitcoin miners all converge to you know a few countries in Africa and then the grid there starts to suffer do you see a

Similar potential there or do you think it’ll be different in Africa uh yes it will be different in Africa sure because um um it’s not the same case in general uh in the countries where where I work you don’t have the network you you don’t

Have a national network you had it in in Kazakhstan it was old but uh it was existing you you don’t have it in in Kenya in Uganda in Congo in the other Congo in central Africa um in in in the Center of Africa you have in general less than 10% of people having

Electricity at home so it’s totally different they are building new small networks uh Regional networks and and I think it’s not the same danger and normally uh we we are leading the the way so we explain to the government uh uh be careful uh about mining it can be very interesting for the

Country um but you have to manage it at the beginning now and to identify and to identify where it’s useful where you have too much electricity and the Hydro power plants in Africa uh you have more and more they are building the the network now so they they are building the the

Hydro El electric uh plants and when you open it’s impossible to have um um the the supply and the demand uh at the same level you have too much electricity when you open always everywhere so uh mining can be very very useful for for for the African countries and they are

Understanding um this aspect now sure we we have negotiation with um 13 yeah 13 countries in Africa now and I think we will open two maybe three new countries in 2024 fantastic okay um and uh just any other thoughts in terms of where things are going with Bitcoin

Mining uh Rigs and you know mining machines do you have any sort of broad views on where the market is going to go there in terms of the development of those I think the biggest development will be in Africa yeah but you you will see a a big mining in Latin America to

In Argentina you know they have a big resource of gas in Argentina uh the company cuso is working um very well in Africa in in Argentina at the moment but uh we have a we have a project to in Argentina a big one um we have big project on flas we discover

Many many resources of of flas and um I think it will be the um the the new objective of many minor miners to to um to stop the flare gas to reduce the FL gas right I see and so just looking at bbgsd5 how to say in English

Um are the same than in in El Salvador you know the geal yeah correct yeah uh we we can work on all types of energy of electricity it must be regular that’s all but we have a a project in morania too uh in the corridor of wind so you have wind it’s

Um it’s a wind plant we you have wind 24 hours and 24 hours and maybe U uh yeah every day interesting and so in in the wind case is it similar to like what we were saying with solar that if the wind is not blowing you have to

Either use really old Asic machines or have some other form of energy that’s also going to work when the wind isn’t on we we imagine to have electricity 80% of time uh in project in morania so now we we will use modern AIX but it’s a very particular wind

Plant you you it’s windy every day every day right I see it’s like it would only work in this particular area maybe not in other areas yeah uh about win absolutely um I think this kind of energy can be efficient uh in this region in morania in this Corridor but

In France for example the the wind has no interest it’s stupid to continue to develop this kind of energy right I see yeah okay like like the solar solar is has a big sense in in om or in Dubai but in north of France I’m not sure about the the

Interest and we know how to make um um um nuclear plans so don’t need solar and wind in France sure but in Africa and in different regions yes sure it’s it’s important and we can do mining on all types of energy yeah it’s interesting and as You’ mentioned I mean there’s all

These countries all around the world all with different climates different environmental conditions does that represent a challenge that you have to like you have your team has to figure out how to work in the desert conditions how to work in the you know in the Congo in the you know just the different

Environmental conditions does that mean you have to have a different setup in terms of your containers yes um I think we are it’s very special U the BBG um uh way of work and it’s why we are friends when we started in 2016 we we tried to open a

Farm in France and the second one in Ukraine in Odessa and the price of electricity was too expensive so we must move and find cheap electricity so in 2018 I started to to turn everywhere in the world to find this Surplus and many people uh told me but it doesn’t exist

The Surplus in electricity we we make electricity um the demand and the supply is the same you no no I’m sure it’s not and we find Surplus everywhere in Africa in in Middle East in um in Central Europe everywhere in Russia you have so many big Hydro power plants with

Maybe uh 5% of the the the the capacity working at 5% of the capacity in Siberia the the mining was is very is helping the the region but um very strongly so yes we we used to to travel we know how to work in the desert in the jungle in the

Mountain in yes I think we are few people to have this experiment because the big miners like the Chinese miners by in the past or the American miners now they have enough megawatts in their country so they don’t travel and they they know exactly how to make mining in

Their country but I’m not sure uh they are interested to to discover other countries one other question around narratives and you know as I’m sure you know you know anyone who’s been around Bitcoin for some time the perception has been oh you know Bitcoin mining it’s bad

For the environment or this you know we’ve all heard this narrative how has your experience been with you know Bitcoin mining narratives and uh where would you say we are today compared to historically I chend a lot uh yes in 20177 or 18 when I when I

Explained that uh mining was a game changer in in the production and distribution of electricity uh people this guy is crazy it can be good to use um so so much electricity so it’s changing now um we we can see more and more more people understanding

Um what it’s happening and the it’s from the the the electricity companies they they they see that the miners are efficient clients they pay every month um they consume electricity um um the cons consumption is very regular so the income is very regular and they can cut

The minor when they want so it’s just perfect if you have an isolated hydrop power plant and you have this kind of client it’s just magic so it’s changing we we can see everywhere that it’s changing and and now Bitcoin is popular with the ETF uh in

The in the finance world so I’m sure in three years four years um this question of pollution of U proof of work um will be totally uh totally stupid as an idea of course yeah and as I’m sure you know in the EU there’s currently some talk

About the EU and the regulators and the ECB are trying to they’re trying to attack proof of work and they’re trying to make it look like oh see ethereum is so good with the proof of stake and you know in their mind obviously I disagree with that

Uh do you have much uh let’s say hope that the EU is going to change their position on this kind of thing uh or or do you see it more like well we just need to look for opportunities elsewhere outside of the EU I think they they will understand

That um this client is very good for them so it’s why I I I I often explain that proof of work does not consume enough uh we have to if we have more demand we can convince more people and um as soon as they will they will see in

Fact that the miners buy the electricity the Surplus the excess electricity and and give money and gives money to the to the country they will accept um when we start in om man just before I think two months before the Central Bank explained that Bitcoin was forbidden in the

Country uh and so I asked to the authorities um is there a problem because we have this project we are buying the AIX and the central banks say it’s forbidden say no no the central banks they don’t they don’t make the law we make the law and so don’t care about the central

Bank that’s really interesting because in one way it shows that you can open doors and you open that door now that there’s Bitcoin mining going on in the country it’s going to look kind of silly that the central bank is trying to say Bitcoin is not allowed when there’s

Bitcoin mining going on and the government has a public private partnership with that entity doing Bitcoin mining and so I think maybe it helps open the door makes it harder to ban Bitcoin makes it harder to stop people actually using Bitcoin so in a way that’s that’s a really good thing

Yes correct the energy is very important we can see it since the beginning of the war with uh between Ukraine and Russia um everybody start to understand begin begin to understand that the energy is very important so in case of Oman for example they have maybe 800 megaw available uh it’s it’s

A a big amount of money so um okay the central banks explain it’s forbidden but why we don’t care the mining is in capacity to buy this electricity and to give money to the country um so uh it’s just a question of pragmatism uh you say pragmatis pragmatism yeah pragmatism

Yeah pragmatism yes so I think the mining is a very good door to to to open a country uh about Bitcoin in general but it’s a very good um it’s a very good way to to convince to convince authorities governments that um Bitcoin is interesting and after they understand

Bitcoin and after they can accept it yeah that’s fascinating I think that’s a great spot to finish up if you have any I guess closing thoughts or any last Point you’d like to make for listeners and of course where can people find you online yes uh you know I think the

Battle at the moment is the and the danger the the tra on bitcoin is the concentration of mining in America so I say to my colleagues in America you can continue to develop in America but you have to to develop in other countries in the same time so contact me I have so

Many megawatts everywhere in Africa well fantastic well look Seb I appreciate you uh joining me and I know English is not your first language so this is a bit uncomfortable for you but listeners uh hope hopefully you you got a lot out of hearing from uh Seb and uh

Seb hope to chat again soon thank you for joining me thank you so much bye-bye Stefan