Can Crypto Mining Replace Your Income?
We talked about ReaktorToken on 100x Gem Show, so we invited
Jerry to give us the full vision of what they’re building. And it’s massive.
From mining while playing MinionsOfSteel to replace the current lootbox system, to mining in the background of every software app to essentially create a universal basic income…
The question is: can they pull it off?
Listen and let us know what you think!
Find our speakers this week:
Matthew Walker – https://twitter.com/hawaiianmint
Cesar Martinez: https://twitter.com/poppabigmac
Jerry: https://twitter.com/waughj
Reaktor: https://twitter.com/ReaktorToken
Our Current Partners:
Astrabit Trading: https://astrabit.io/
Shrapnel: https://twitter.com/playSHRAPNEL
StorageChain: https://twitter.com/StorageChain
Disclosures:
As always, we want to stress that nothing in this is financial investment advice. Our goal with these conversations is to give everyone listening one more tool in their belt to utilize while they do their own research and learn more about crypto.
100x Podcast Partners are not endorsements to purchase or invest. They are projects or brands who have (at a minimum) purchased ad space in our podcast (which is how we fund the podcast’s operations). We meet with them, often have them on the podcast so you can hear from them directly, and often find additional ways to support each other (like introducing us to other cool guests). Please do your own research.
Well what if I was just playing the video game and the thing was mining for the company the company could generate revenue and you could give away all of the software for free uh not even the in-game content would cost you anything you are listening to the 100x
Podcast we got a really special episode today um we are sitting down with Jerry from reactor if you listened to our last gem show the token that Caesar brought to me to check out was the rkr token and I will disclose before we even get into this conversation that Caesar and I have
Both now purchased that token off the market open market um and so there might be some bias in the way that we speak use that to your own knowledge uh we’re excited to get into it you guys are creating something that I think is is a really unique spin on multiple
Narratives that we get excited about at at 100x thank you for sitting down with us Jerry um and to open up the conversation um do you want to give like just the high level who you guys are at reactor what you’re building what your vision is however you want to take that
Question I’m open for you before we dig into everything this episode has to offer we want to highlight the awesome Partners who sponsor this podcast and make it possible for us to work full-time on 100x they’re Legends and we appreciate them for supporting us imagine if XBox existed without Xbox
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150 gigs of free storage to start participating in the web 3 Revolution today sure so reactor is part of a line of products that’s being built by unhuman LLC unhuman family was formed sort of from a hobby of mine um I was mining a few years ago and I was
Building a video game uh during that time too and GPU mining is what I was doing I had had 120 1080ti gpus strung together in my garage and I was building minions of Steel in a different game engine back then uh minions of Steel has been around
For nine or 10 years i’ I’ve built it in something called Genesis 3D I built it in something called ogre uh another engine which I can’t remember the name of U and then we recently ported it over to Unity about a year ago and converted it to web
3 but while I was mining and doing all this I realized that the the same gpus that are good for mining cryptocurrency are the same gpus that are good for playing video games and so I’m at that time mining was on the upside you could actually pay your electric bill with a
Little bit of money left over um it’s upside down now you can’t do that but back then you could and I got to thinking well what if I was just playing the video game and the thing was mining for the company the company could generate revenue and you could give away all of
The software for free uh not even the end-game content would cost you anything so just offer up a little bit of computational power um and that’s where I came up with the variable rate minor uh it’s actually patent pendy um but the way it works I don’t
Know if you’ve ever tried to mine before but usually you have to set up a batch file you have to set up all these parameters tweak it out you have to go find their API calls and set up uh some of this you have to know the syntax that
They’re using it’s not super hard but if you’re not of that particular mindset it it’s it’s offputting and so we we built a minor that’s really easy you sign up for a minions of Steel account account you put your username and password in there and there’s a
Power slider at the top you just slide that to how much power you want the miner to have and hit start and that’s it there’s no configuration nothing um we are really trying to push the idea that in the Modern Age with blockchain there is no reason to pay for software
Software is the number one thing that should be free even your operating systems can be free um if you let a little bit of that mining power do the pay for it for you why this is not mass adopted at this point why everyone in the world is not
Doing this is is beyond my comprehension uh I can’t think of a reason why and it may be artificially being Ted down uh there may be reasons why proof of work as powerful as it is is being demonized uh and of course those reasons may be less less governmental control and that’s what
Decentralization is all about not pushing the government to a to the side just just less governmental control control of your own information control of your own details which are really none of the government’s business unless they’re watching out you know for your safety things like the military that’s very important for governments to
Cover uh safety net programs which we won’t need if proof of work ever takes off correctly but you still need governments uh but people need Freedom more and more freedom and this is just an attempt to drive that very same idea and scenario that deepi has uh and make things free
For people so unhuman um and in under unhuman reactor is not just I think this is where I came in uh in full transparency when Caesar and I first looked at at you guys um and we actually noticed like halfway through our conversation like hey we actually have different perceptions of what reactor
Even is um and I my initial perception came from reading that comic strip you guys have on your website um where they’re essentially these characters talking about this idea of like hey we could solve a lot of the problems that the West is experiencing through crypto
Mining um we could see um that offset uh a lot of poverty that is coming to rise because of deel Rapid development in AI rapid development in technology um we could use um and what you’re tapping into we could use mining to give software or products for free for people
So rather than paying for something they’re actually just while they use it they’re creating value for the person who created the software for them um so my my point is zooming out you guys are creating a lot of different things and I want to I want to tap on the ideology
That you’re talking about before we even get into the specifics of the things that you’re creating and that that ideology seems to be um that ideology seems to be we are speed running toward I don’t know just everything is rapidly advancing all at once and maybe the average Joe the normal people like
Us are are potentially just being left out um and we’re the ones that might get trampled in the process of technology speedrunning to success like success is at your expense and my expense um and you essentially present the argument that that crypto mining could solve that
That is correct is that your thought so that is that’s exactly my thought a few a couple of years ago really not that long ago uh I’m a bit of a a futurist a technologist um I do this for my day job I work for the Department of Defense
I’ve been doing it for 20 years architecting Hardware software systems for the Department of Defense but crypto Mining and proof of work really is the only way to spontaneously generate an income without having to do mental or physical labor now I say mental labor it does take a little
Thought to you know to do crypto mining but the tools that we provide take a lot of that difficulty completely out of it and originally I was thinking that Ai and Robotics we going to take all of the manufacturing jobs first um I expected to see skeleton crws in you know car
Manufacturing facilities in the automobile industry by now and and that hasn’t really happened now you see robots in there but there’s still lots of people on the assembly line right and this was a little bit stunning to me uh why this is and literally months ago you can count it in
Months the cognition of AI just suddenly exploded bang dude it’s so fast yes and and then that got flipped around and so now the cognition is now better than the mechanical aspect uh so the administrative job jobs are going to go first your programming jobs your phone answering jobs Your Service uh industry
Type jobs that require you’re sitting at a desk like me exactly your vocalized administrative jobs are going to go your calculative jobs like programming as we mentioned is going to go first and the reason for that is the mechanics are now more difficult than the cognition um now they’ll come we’re
Still going to lose the blue collar job at some point uh corporations are involved in maximizing profit and if they can do this with AI they will um now I’m not demonizing corporations because they have a difficult job as a as a business owner I
Realize how hard it is to find the right person for the job and even in things like the food industry think about the food industry in the past couple of years uh I’m an older guy and I can remember when everyone wanted to go to work for McDonald’s I mean that that was
The thing you you did when you were a teenager you went to work for McDonald’s it was exciting you know and I’m just using McDonald’s as an example the food industry was really sort of the entry point for you know 15 16 year old uh
Kids back when I was my first job was Jambo juice and Panda Express so I totally agree with you there uh but now now the fast food industry is suffering they they cannot hire people back then they were turning people away they had so many applications and so many people
Wanted to come and work there as teenagers you had to actually go through a proper interview to get hired at McDonald’s now if you walk up to McDonald’s they just say come on in you want to work here please go to the kitchen um and so things are are turning
Around corporations are having a hard time finding the right fit finding enough people uh to fill the needs people don’t really want to work as much anymore and so they really have no choice but to turn to AI in some respect to fill those gaps but what happens to the people that
Want those jobs that need those jobs well they’re going to be suffering and while corporations are thinking about ways to fill those needs and those gaps and to maximize their profit no one is really thinking about what everyone that’s going to get laid off is going to do you know what’s
Going to happen to these people the the safety net programs here in the United States are already stressed enough what happens when you lay off 20% of the workforce 25% 30 40% there’s not enough tax dollars to support all those people and so I can only con conjecture that bad times are
Coming and proof of work can help us offset that with mass adoption with enough people mining each one of us can generate a menial income it may not be a huge income but it’ll be enough to pay rent a car payment things like this uh electric field uh people will invent and
Find their own ways to increase those profits uh when given the opportunity I have no doubt uh but we have to give them the opportunity first so the problem problem really simply is uh as technology advances as AI advances I mean you tap into the idea of like man
Look how fast it’s Advanced yeah dude go look at Mid journey and what it was able to do one year ago versus today go look at chat GPT and what it’s able to do one year ago versus today like it was almost comical when it came out I was like oh
This is really cool this is fun to mess around with and now it is IND discernible from reality uh it’s it’s insane how quickly it’s advancing um so this idea the problem is everything is advancing so rapidly that the average person will actually be out of work way
Sooner than we think I I I remember that argument starting a couple years ago when uh when Tesla started talking about their um self-driving semi trucks and what that would look like to the American industry I mean I believe the stats are still that the the number one
Job that men and America are working um I forget the age bracket um is like if you were to take one job and just take as many men as you can fit into it percentage wise I think it’s truck drivers in the US um and overnight that
Industry I mean Tesla would succeed in making it way more profitable way more efficient but they would put something like 20% of men in America out of work immediately um so when the idea is hey problem number one arises technology advances so quickly that the person
Caught in the crossfire is going to be the normal everyday people working their normal everyday jobs Your solution that you present is saying proof of work mining can essentially create a universal basic income for those people how does that like how does that actually work on a on a practical level
You you mentioned using you guys developed a game that is like your proof of concept for mining that anyone can do how does that work so to help Drive the understanding of the power of proof of work we took one of the the most popular pastimes in
The USA which is playing video games uh especially uh the PC area now we can mine on the Xbox and we can mine on the PlayStation but we need a license in order to be able to allow people to legally download that software onto an Xbox and PlayStation and we’re going to
Be working on that but PC is wide open and so we will start on the PC we will build this gain minions of Steel it is a firstperson shooter RTS hybrid now what we’re trying to do is cover our strategy players which is a small part of the market and our
Firstperson shooter P players which is the largest part of the market and and have both of these groups Converge on a game uh that they can both play at the same time so that we could maximize the Deliverance of this uh particular message so we will make
Minions of still completely free and we will make the ingame content completely free if you use the minor now if we embed the minor with the game to start with we’re going to limit our audience immediately to only web 3 and there’s far far more traditional PC game players
Than there are we have three PC game players at the moment for sure so we had to offer the traditional yes so we had to offer the traditional pay method you know PayPal credit card uh in order to bring them on and we had to separate the minor from the gang so
The minor doesn’t download with the game but you can still freely download the game uh once you do that you can use PayPal uh to pay for the game we have a minions of Steel wallet now that you con to metamask and you can use
Rkr to buy in-game tokens gkr and gr rkr is a standin until we get rkr coin going but gkr is minable and our school of thought is if you’re paying with a credit card you’re swiping that thing you’re putting in your details uh you know your address your
Name all the stuff you have to do with a credit card and that mining button is staring you in the face every day you play every day you play the game and minions are still won’t be the only game we have a handful there eventually you’re going to
Click on that mining button exactly I we think you’re going to be curious enough that you’re going to eventually click on that mining button and download The Miner and try it and once you do that you’ll never go back you’ll see your gr KR just sort of magically going up
You’re playing the game you’re not really doing anything extra you slide the slider to 10% and run your graphics at maximum if you want to or you can drop your graphics down a little bit and slide your slider up to 30% and then you’ll get even more gkr once that realization hits
Home you’re never going back that we just we just wholeheartedly believe this and so the way that you’re actually mining itself you’ve essentially you made a statement like way at the beginning of this conversation that hey I realized what what got you into launching UNH humanly was the realization uh that hey the
Exact same this my PC right here you can’t see it just off camera the exact same GPU that’s in there um what is that I don’t know RTX 3070 or something uh is running my games and is running my podcast is also the same one that I
Would use to mine Bitcoin or or whatever else um what if I did both of those things at the same time is that the idea would the minor only run while you’re playing the game yeah uh so if you run the minor only when you’re playing the
Game you never use any you never expend any extra energy so it’s it’s carbon neutral now we think with adoption that you’re going to be running that minor all the time and this was what I was saying about easing the power usage into the grid instead of dropping a big corporate
Mining facility on the town and sucking up all the power this gives us an amount of time to adjust to the power draw um secondly every time a new piece of technology is released power consumption is always addressed U if you look at servers for example from 20
Years ago used about 50% more power than they use now but they’re a hundred times more powerful so they’re drawing less power they’re more powerful and this trend is going to continue uh now there’s something coming it’s called Photon Computing or Photon processing photonic processing photonic processing
Takes us off of electrons so we’re not going to be using electron silicon based processors in the future and possibly in the near future we’re going to be using light and the light processors are going to be 90 % more power efficient and an order of magnitude more powerful than
The CPUs and gpus that we have now and so this is the perfect time to introduce this concept everything’s getting uh less energy uh hungry and more powerful and so mining fits that right in there it’s perfect and I think that makes sense because as a proof of
Concept using minions of Steel to show like hey as you playing the game you’re already because the the token that they’d be earning or mining is the in-game currency that there would otherwise be earning as they’re playing the game to buy more ships or buy more
Tools for the game and and make their experience better to get better in the game you would spend that currency now you’re just giving them a chance to like hey you want to speed up the process and how you obtain these tokens just turn on the M The Miner and now you’re earning
Those tokens at a faster rate which would for the player is an awesome thing because it’s like hey now I can upgrade my my units faster I can become more competitive I can have an edge over people who don’t have the minor how how do you take this from this proof of
Concept like hey this is working within the game to that next step of like hey now we can show you other utilities for the miners where where do you go from here after this game where do you go from like hey now we showed you guys
That this Miner can work within the game what’s the next step in showing the proof of concept of mining as as a sort of proof of work being just in our everyday lives yeah so gamers are a large part of the population they just are I I am a 55y
Old man and I still play games and all of the kids that I grew up with played Atari right that that was our thing um we also played pong pong was my very first video game and it was fantastic it was fun we we played hours
And hours just watching a light ball go back and forth across the screen and it’s been here a long time it is ingrained into our society at this point and so adoption is going to come through video Gamers it’s going to they’ll tell people uh that aren’t Gamers which are going to be
Few about this technology and they’ll be it’ll begin to Branch out now the we don’t have to just do video games uh as mentioned earlier you can give away operating systems for free you can give away authoring software of various types like uh 3D uh authoring software movie making packages uh packages U
Audio packages you know there’s an entire Suite of adobe tools that are used industrywide for creating you know Hollywood uh Graphics type graphics and movies all of that stuff could be free to everyone some of that stuff is enormously expensive uh things like 3D Studio Max to build video games with which is
Probably on its way out due to AI uh Maya which is probably on its way out due to Maya but the the replacement software could be absolutely free as well uh using this method and so we’re going to sneak it into society through video games and Branch it out to other software
Companies uh will’ll be shopping other retailers other companies other software producers that make software other than games uh and try to get them on board too so it’s not just about video games it’s just a good place to start and you can any piece of software to be clear
The reason why it becomes free is because you’re trading your your uh computer’s capacity while using that software right so whatever it was like Hey I’m going to I want X software for free uh when I use x software it and it requires I don’t know 20% of my maybe
It’s not a game and it’s not high intensive maybe it’s requiring 20% of my graphics card and I devote 5% of my graphics card while using that software to mine whatever cryptocurrency and while it mines that I receive something and the person who created the software receives something so they’re
Essentially just being paid continually but it’s at no Financial cost to myself that is right you’re you’re already using the computer you’re already paying for that allocation that those watts of power that you’re use uh and so allowing the minor to use a little bit of that wattage while you’re
Doing the work is really going to cost you nothing um and you get your stuff for free now with mass adoption the interesting thing starts to happen um as I said gr rkr is a standin until rkr coin comes online uh but we need to test
The system and so we came up with gr rkr so we could test the system right now uh getting the tier one blockchain online there a lot of work there’s a lot of testing involved with that but when it comes along gr rkr will go to rkr point
And the company and the enduser will share uh so the company will take a percentage the end user will take uh a percentage and all the software will be free now with mass adoption you’re going to open up your wallet one day and say hey I’ve got all
The armies I need I really don’t need to buy anything in the uh moth store or the unhuman store so what am I going to do with all these extra tokens let me cash it in for a pizza so now you got more tokens than you need to support the game and youve
Order to dinner with even more adoption you may come in and look at your wallet and decide I could buy dinner and pay my car payment and then with mass adoption you’re going to be able to pay your mortgage or your rent and it won’t be
Long until you realize that you know I might be able to quit my job and write that book that I wanted to write uh like this full-time job and that I’ve got and sometimes working overtime is really cutting into my ability to deliver on my personal interests and improve my life
As a whole at a on a personal level and maybe you will maybe maybe you have enough income that you quit you can pay your rent you pay your car payment you can eat pay your utilities and you can sit at home and write that book uh you
Can write that music you can write those songs you can build those games from home now and you’re not trapped in your life I I think one of the reasons there’s a push back these days on filling corporate needs the uh corporations need you to come to
Work but you are beginning to realize the value of your time an individual is now realizing the value of your time you’ve got a CEO that’s making $50 million a year and you’re making $330,000 a year and if he were just to back off on that a little bit and make
Five you know from 50 to five million that’s a pretty good Gap but who who needs more than five million a year 10 million a year right he could give that to his workers and probably increase the probability that people are going to come and work there but they’re not
Gonna they’re they’re not going to and so people are it’s a it’s a backlash you know I hey I know I’m worth more than this I’m I’m I I want to spend more time with my family like you do you’re spending every waking minute with your family you have all this money so
How do you do it as an individual this is what we’re after this is how you do it as an individual and how corporations can still survive they’ll survive off AI you can survive off of proof of work and to get to that next vision of the idea
Of like hey now we’re actually able to have this proof of work concept pay for our daily living and support our our sort of Lifestyle to get to that point now that’s where we start talking about your layer one and that’s what you guys are currently developing right the layer
One that will actually host all these different utilities and all these different mechanisms that will use this proof of work mechanism to pay for the software to pay for the different things how how far in development is that how far are you guys along should can we
Expect that here in q1 of 2024 is that later on in the year and do you guys already have certain things set up so when you guys have that layer one ready to roll out maybe like one or two different like uh Flagship utilities that you guys have ready for that layer
One launch so people start showing like hey this is how this is the vision coming to fruition for us so the layer one is is installed in its most basic level at the moment we can fire it up we can run it we can mine
It but with the type of utility we need for our layer one we think version one which is sort of an open data version of it will be out March April uh of this year now it won’t be the final version the way you do software development correctly is you do it in
Phases and this kind of software development has to be right uh you’ve experienced it a little bit with uh video games especially PC video games where you have a date you have to meet you know the producers are pushing the developers to meet the state the the
Owner of the company the founders are pushing the producers who are pushing the developers who end up releasing a game that’s not quite finished and so now people are playing it it’s failing it’s failing you push a bunch of patches uh to try to get it fixed and overtime you do well let’s
Just figure that whole process into the release because we already know that’s how it works it never gets games never get released 100% finish on time they’re sufficiently complicated they’re they’re not easy things to build software is arguably the most complicated and difficult uh production on the face of the Earth
Right now I don’t think people realize that software is very hard to develop especially complex software AI is going to make that easier but for people it’s it’s hard um and so let’s figure all of this into it and so let’s call this thing beta this is a public beta we’ll release
It in you know March April let’s tell them it’s going to have bugs it’s not going to work exactly right and let’s tell them it’s not a permanent instantiation it’s not a permanent implementation and so please try it please give us some feedback know that we’re going to take it offline and
Fix those things that you find right and then we’re going to put it out there in another phase let’s see how many bugs are worked out let’s stress it uh people are going to use this thing in ways that we can’t predict and so let’s let them
Use it for a while in those ways figure out how it’s going to be used uh fix it and then we’ll roll into these phases called release candidates and so a release candidate will be we think it’s fixed we think we’re really got it this time release candidate one
Comes out uh and people use it if no major problems we lock it if we have if we have a few more problems do a release candidate to but we need to manage these expectations because software is so finicky and so hard um think you remember when proof of stake ethereum
Rolled out it wasn’t quite exactly right it’s still not quite exactly right I won’t go into I won’t go into that there’s some things I know about you know ethereum proof of state that it’s just not quite right and so we’re going to take some of those lessons with the
Ethereum proof of stake that we know are wrong we know our inut are not implemented correctly but they can’t go back it’s permanent it’s a permanent installation now you can’t go back and so we want to make sure we avoid these problems include some fixes for these
Mistakes that we see and really make a a solid blockchain for everyone do you guys see your layer one being um like the solution or or one of the solutions and and and the solution to um this this concept of like I know you have not used the word Universal
Basic income that’s like where my brain goes to easiest describe the idea of like hey mining to make sure that I have a basine to live off of um so that’s where my brain goes do you that’s like I mean you mentioned like hey all of a sudden I can pay my
Groceries and I can pay my rent with this that’s like dream world right obviously I would love to live in that World um I think sometimes it’s easy to be the guy that sees how fast tech is advancing and think shoot dude like if I
Don’t find some way to make a bunch of money really quick like I’m going to be the one get stepped on and be pessimistic I mean you mentioned like the example of like hey your CEO is making 50 million a year while you make 30,000 they don’t want to give you more
Um in the same sentence I think the guys that are pushing you out to uh to replace you with AI they don’t want to give you anything either um I I would love to live in a world where uh people are taken care of that’s just not the
World that I feel like I live in um I think we live in a a world that at times is unfortunate because everyone is taking advant Vantage of by somebody um and I’m curious like how do you actually make that dream world happen where the that baseline from mining is actually
Worth something like how do you I don’t know the question I’m asking I guess like how do you make that token valuable enough to be worth a a universal Baseline um how do you is that just going to be your guys’s coin is that going to be you guys implementing this
System in other places um that it becomes like open source what is like what do the Practical implementation of getting there look like because we can see the end goal I’m just curious what what’s between a and z so there’s a lot between there and the Grassroots adoption is
Only sort of the start of it this thing only works if people support it um I’ve made the point before that if we were already a billion dooll company and we just went and built this thing and tried to shove it down everyone’s throat the chances of success there are not very
Good uh it’s not really Mass amounts of money that can really kick this thing off you know that would help but people really are the driver they people have to understand it first and as a Grassroots project that doesn’t have a billion dollars this doing what we’re doing right
Now at this very moment is the way we get this grass uh Roots movement going and get people talking about it now are people going to carry it Forward well that’s a large part of it we need a powerful base to speak to the government and so the government can kill all of
Divi if they want and so how do you you stop that from happening uh well you you have to offer the government something you know we’re we’re offering people something we’re we’re trying to make them understand proof of work and how powerful it is governments already know they already know how powerful it
Is and they’re afraid of it now why are they afraid of it one reason just one they can’t figure out how to tax it that’s all they care yeah and so we have to offer them a way to satisfy that need you know there’s only two things in life that are
Fores sure that’s death and taxes and I’ll tell you right now that that’s the truth that’s not just to say uh there’s been taxes ever since Caesar you know Render unto Caesar Caesar but is Caesar and it’s been around for thousands of years uh uh it’s never going away so
Don’t think that you’re going to be decentralized and cut the government out of the plate you’re not um they’re going to kill it and so if you offer them a way to do this you have a better chance of keeping your personal stuff decentralized if they can’t figure out how to tax
It they will make it go away and so our method does bring the government in play at some point um now our idea is takes a little lobbying power it’s a government process where you pay a bunch of people to go and Lobby for a law we want to make crypto
Mining by corporations illegal um there may be another way and it may come up but if corporations aren’t able to that’s pretty big I mean I would say it’s something like 50% of all minors right now are controlled by corporations of course actually it’s more than that but for sure 50% of the
Swing Vote on both Bitcoin and ethereum is controlled by corporations you know it and so that that has to stop if we want this to work coin who I’m a fan of by the way coinbase who I’m a pretty big fan of I mean they control 12% of
Ethereum stake um so you’re looking at proof of stake or if you’re looking at Bitcoin yeah something like over 50% is controlled by like five companies yep is that is absolutely so how do you succeed well then how do you succeed essentially going to war against those guys I mean I
Think about like um and this is not like as kind as I can put it this not supposed to be a dig or something but you guys are a smaller startup at this point I think your market cap is just under 15 million um how do you get like
Broader crypto who is lobbying like stand with crypto that’s lobbying right now against Elizabeth Warren’s like anti- crypto Army um how do you get guys like that to stand with you how do you get uh celus and misari to stand with you how do you get big crypto I don’t
Know that anyone’s ever said that but big crypto to say hey we buy into your vision UMC do you need them to buy into your vision do you yeah somehow Grassroots without the rest of crypto what does that look like no we’re we’re absolutely building a model that includes governments and other projects
Uh we’re going to bridge to ethereum uh um so let’s go back to this sort of corporate War we’re we don’t want to go to war with corporations we are a corporation um but we want to swap the mechanisms by which they generate Revenue so let the people mind think
About this a minute Corporate America if if you’re listening think about the cost the startup cost of those mining facilities that that you’re building some of them are hundreds of millions of dollars now an individual can go and buy some hardware for a few thousand dollars for good hardware and a few hundred
Dollar for some media medium hardware corporate America let the civilians do that don’t go pay a hundred million do for a bunch of gpus and start this thing up now how do you make money corporate America you own the mining pools the startup cost for that is going
To be a fraction of the amount of building these mining facilities but you still control a massive portion of the pool of the power so own the mining pools Corporate America let the civilians do the mining cut that cost stop dropping these things in on local power grids and let
Civilians carry that cost an individual civilian can carry that cost shoulder that at a much comfortable weight than you can that even you can’t so you on the mining pools Corporate America and the government who sits above the mining pools can tax the mining pools directly zero paperwork for
The individual the individuals are connected to the mining pools the hash rate is aggregated by the mining no one needs to know who’s doing the mining there’s no reason to know everyone has to do the mining they have to be connected to the pool the governments can collect their taxes in
Real time if they want to every minute every second every millisecond can pull their taxes straight out of the pool in real time if they want to so they’re constantly getting paid there is no end of the year tax return they there is no tax refund right if you have a menial income
Already that’s that’s that’s paying your basic needs now you don’t need safety net programs there is no tax refund government corporations you’re going to end up making way more money than you will Mining and individuals go to work or not AI is going to take your job anyway so uh not
Everybody will stay home some people will still want to go to work but they can also M they can work and M it’s it defies reason in my mind why and done this already done this 10 years ago and this kind of vision so when you’re talking so when I’m looking
When I’m thinking about sort of the the next steps that you told me about like hey the first version of the layer one should be in beta between May and June so that’s like mid mid year uh what kind of long-term vision is this is this like a five-year
Vision that you have a 10year vision when do you see like hey if things go the the way they’re supposed to if things go according to plan how long will it be before we get to that point of like hey now we’ve reached the the vision that you guys have set out with
Rkr I think we will hit a a final re release camp candidate by the end of 24 I think by theend we’ll be on and off again all year we’ll be on uh you know March uh April type time frame with a public beta uh it won’t be fully dressed
But we’ll be on and off all year we’ll hit some release candidates uh during the year and by the end of 24 we’ll have the final release and this Feast will be you know turning out revenue for people I was going to say and with your team
Juggling sort of the release of the layer one and having that fly out by 2024 or by the end of 2024 and also minions of Steel how are you guys finding the people to work with to add more utilities to that layer one once it’s released uh because I’m I’m sure
You guys are going to want to show proof of work as soon as it’s out to show people like hey look the the whole idea of having free software for all just by allowing those companies to mine on the back and as you’re using those products
That idea seems very I think if you’re in crypto and you hear that idea is like dude that makes that makes so much sense why wouldn’t I want to do that how are you guys going ahead and ensuring that you guys have those utilities ready to
Go once you guys have your layer one out and ready to be about and out and ready to be released so it’s really all about gr KR gr KR is the standin token uh before rkr coin comes online so let let me talk about this a little bit in
Respect to tokenomics we we have a lot of people that say what’s going to happen to rkr token when rkr coin comes out now first of all you need to understand the difference between a token and a coin coins out are the root um medium that is attached to a
Tier one blockchain a minable tier one blockchain or a proof of state blockchain so ethereum is the ethereum blockchain token reactor coin will be the tier one blockchain coin but reactor token is hanging on the ethereum Chain it is a solidity contract that you implement on top of a
Coin so tokens are different than coins rkr token is hanging on the ethereum Chain rkr coin will be on the reactor chain nothing will happen to rkr token it will it will remain now the interesting thing about proof of stake is with proof of stake you still have to
Go out find a job earn a Paycheck cash that paycheck put the money in the bank transfer it to coinbase or whatever your uh medium of exchange between the bank and crypto is if you’re going defi now you got to transfer that to your defi wallet metamask or coinbase wallet or
Whatever you have then you can buy your tokens that’s proof of State it’s it requires you to go out and work a traditional job in order to buy into it with proof of work you just turn the thing on and it generates coins Now with an atomic swap between
Rkr coin and the ethereum chain uh a bridge between those chains you can use rkr coin to buy rkr token and so there you you’re going to a good Trader knows that he can leverage one token or coin against the other there’s going to be
Times when rkr coin is going to be up against rkr token so you’re going to want to buy some uh and then there will be times when rkr token when the conditions are just right are now up against rkr coin and so you can flip these things
Also with rkr coin since you since we have an atomic swap between the ethereum chain you can buy any token on ether you can even buy ethereum with rkr coin and vice versa and so leveraging these chains one against another is going to increase your ability to earn
Income uh with mass adoption you’ll have a menial income that kind of pays your base expenses honestly I’m starting there it it it it may do more uh we just don’t know because it hasn’t been done before so when you’re working when you’re trying trying to quantify something that has never been
Done before there’s some math involved but there’s also a lot of conjecture involved you don’t have any data to go on uh but anyway you can swap between these chains have your menial income and improve your chances of making it really big if that’s your thing trading is your
Thing if it’s not then use the manial income to do your thing music books you know riding motorcycles what whatever your thing is Right racing uh I can think of uh race car drivers who put a lot of time into their cars and stuff like that could uh could do this from
Home there’s there’s not a lot that proof of work can’t solve if it’s massively adopted and implemented correctly and it doesn’t make proof of State go away it doesn’t deny the government its its take in fact it’s probably going to increase their tape U the thing about taxes paper taxes gives
A lot of lead weight to do what cheat on your taxes but if proof of work is the base of your income model it’s almost impossible to cheat like the government and why would you there there would be absolutely no reason to cheat so first of all you take the need to
Cheat out of the loop you take the method to cheat out of the loop you give the government the ability to collect tax taxes at all hours of the day and night not just once a year and when you buy things it it’s a win for everyone um I don’t think governments
Need to be afraid of it I don’t think people need to be afraid of it and I especially don’t think corporations need to be afraid of it because they’re the ones that stand to earn the most I’ll say this uh to preface my next question I think you probably have the most
Vision out of any project I’ve talked to um with 10,000 followers on Twitter I think you guys have lofty Vision that’s not supposed to be me throwing shade genuinely I I it makes me think of uh when Andrew Yang ran for president in 2012 2016 whenever that was I’m I’m
Fairly conservative so I know we get we don’t get too political on the show um and he ran out of New York um in a party that I wouldn’t normally vote for um and I just thought he was genuinely intriguing and the conversation that he
Was having at the time was hey dudes Ai and Tech are going to steal your jobs uh we need to establish some form of universal basic income which is interesting because he was that was he was too early like he was saying that before anybody cared um and we’re
Probably still a little bit too early and they essentially laughed him out of the room and they laughed him out of the election uh because they said he wasn’t realistic and I’m curious like how you are going to deal with the criticism that like hey you’re a like you’re a
Small layer one in a very large sea of big name layer ones fighting for victory in 2024 um you guys are yeah I mean you’re how do you earn your seat at the table how do you get people to care um how do you get how do you take this from
The vision stage that you’re at to implementing it into a re like I don’t know yeah how do you how do you get that to happen and then maybe a followup in that same pieces you’re answering um how do you as far as like the actual implementation do you see like this this
Baseline that you’re talking about is that all done hopefully I mean you talked about leveraging the gr KR with rkr the coin do you see that all being done through your guys’s coin on your layer one or is this something that could be implemented across all proof of
Work blockchains um and then maybe the third piece there as you as I put the puzzle together for you to answer um as far as like um gosh what was I saying as far as making it actually actually go ahead and just answer that I don’t want to throw
Another piece at you um the idea of how you get there and not just hey this is our vision but how you actually earn a seat at the table for people to take you seriously um and then where you see that value being derived and and maybe the thought process there
Was like I mean people are still arguing about whether or not Bitcoin is valuable they’re still arguing about whether or not ethereum is valuable how do you convince them that rkr is an actual store of value that can be used to signify a basine of income well as a computer systems architect
And sort of a a futurist in a study of futurist I I know this will work I personally I I already know it will work now convincing others is the hard part change yeah exactly now how do you get them to believe it right and so naturally psychologically it is sort of inbred
Into humans to resist change um yeah this is a documented fact it’s well studied and so once you get used to something even if it’s not optimal it is very difficult to get them to change even if the thing is much much better so
It has to be done in pieces a little bit at a time in reasonable pieces that people can understand and that is what we’re doing uh we’re going to keep talking about it consistency never giving up is the key you know if you Tire which I never do if
You give up which I didn’t never do you’re going to fail and the second thing is corporations already know it’s profitable or they wouldn’t spend $100 million building these facilities they would spend 200 $500 million on some of these facilities why on Earth would they spend that kind of
Money if it w if they didn’t make anything on it right and so we just need to move you spend hundreds of millions to make billions exactly so they they already know the power and they are the ones also that are fighting and thank you very much Corporate America to keep
Governments from killing it and so from now from then until now where we are right now it’s been corporations with their large wallets sort of fighting governments lobbying governments to keep the space alive and so they’ve had their benefit they’ve done a service to everyone by keeping it alive now we
We need to evolve it into a space that encompasses entire civilizations so corporations already know it’s profitable corporations already know they need to convince the government not to kill it they’ve been doing that work for us at least um they they are going to replace our jobs with
AI they are but they have done a service in this respect and it’s time that we as civilians as individuals been for ourselves sometimes we don’t we just assume the government is going to we we assume the government is out there knowing that AI is going to dump 40% of
The jobs and and oh by the way soon we assume they have a plan to offset that they don’t they don’t and so we have to U as civilians and responsible people in the community we have to take upon that work ourselves and help convince governments
That this is good for us and them too so when you look at the rkr token and we are at now I’m thinking about when we’re at the point where the L1 is up and running and everyone is starting to take advantage of these these opportunities
Where they’re able to mine the token as for example if I were to put out a software that allowed you to make your work at home super easy and now I give that for free people are but in exchange as you’re using my software I’m mining
Some on the back end and that’s what I’m earning so I’m earning some rkr on the back end what I’m probably doing with that rkr I think most people especially at the beginning is not really holding that rkr and the rkr token I’m probably trading that for like a stable usdc to
Have just like a base layer or like okay you know what maybe I keep 50% maybe the other 50% I sell how do you maintain or how do you keep rkr what utilities will rkr have once you have everything settled that that will keep that price
At will that will stabilize the price or will stop the price from just dumping from everyone that’s actually receiving this token from the mining just selling it off for something else yeah so there are nonstochastic quantitative um economic models that are used to figure out how
The basics of an economic model is going to work now back in the early 19 Century it was thought that these can be computed uh ahead of time so you could build an economic model based on a set of criteria that would always work we now know that is not true that economic
Models are stochastic and that means they do what they want based on the millions of conditions that are generated inside a modern civilization and the way you deal with that is we’re going to have to do it just the way governments do it now interestingly cryptocurrency us uses the
Same sort of terms that government economic models uh use like minting and burning uh and so when there’s a need when there’s a certain economic condition um governments will mint money they’ll print it right and they’ll and they’ll move all of that into circulation now this happens slow so
First of all they have to spool up the machines they have to physically print the money stamp the money mint coins and then they have to move it to the banks and then they have to put it into circulation this takes a minute they also burn money they physically burn the
Money they go to the banks they collect the old money plus some if they need to take some out of circulation and they put it in a furnace and they burn it and um tier ones haven’t caught on to this idea yet if you want to stabilize your coin if you want to
Stabilize your your uh economic echosphere your cryptosphere you have to be able to both mint and burn on the tier one now there’s some tokens out there that would do this but they do it for nefarious reasons you know they they figure out ways to cheat You by doing
This right but on a tier one if you’re able to model the way governments especially the US government is able to stabilize the value of its currency through one Mass adoption see what why is the dollar always strong number one is mass adoption number two is they can mint and burn
They can regulate circulation and so what is a tier one going to need to do in order to stabilize the value of the token and make it always worth something versus the power cost well you have to be able to do that control the supply and that that’s
What we’re going to do um we’re going to have the mechanisms in play to so that we can control the supply under certain economic conditions so what would that look like practically what I’m thinking is from what you just said are some of the utilities that sort of on humanly
Them yourselves will be implementing maybe like other games in the future or other software that you guys go ahead and release to the public will you guys use the the the rkr that gets minted out of that to burn that yourselves or are you are you expecting the people who for
Example again back to the example of me releasing a software to the public and the rkr that I receive on my expected to burn a certain amount what does that look like in practicality where do the burns happen it’s it is completely up to the individual if they want to burn
Their tokens uh if they do that it’s going to cost um if we do that at the root level uh you won’t see it the individual won’t see it I mean you don’t see it when the government you know Burns physical dollars uh all you realize is the effect
Of that you know now the dollar is stronger or the dollar is weaker if they go the wrong way with it um but when we do it it’s instantaneous when when the government does it it has to it has to sort of bleed into circulation over time or come out
Of or be added to circulation over time when you do it on a on a on a tier one it’s instantaneous so there is a chance here to do something that has never been done before this is a a world’s first and unhuman Le is a actually has a few
World first technologies that are coming out in both the gaming space and the economic space back to Ai and the reason why I asked that question yeah and the reason why I asked that question is because when I’m thinking about it I’m thinking of like hey once we get to the point
Where a 100 million people can actually take a universal basic income out of R KR and I’m paying all my bills with it I can imagine 100,000 people unless we’re at the point where we can actually use rkr to pay my electricity bill but I can
Use rkr to pay for my groceries at at Walmart I might have to be changing that token for a US dollar or changing it to Fiat at the end of the day you have 100 million people are are selling their tokens every single month at at a big
Chunk you know thousands of dollars a month uh for 100 millions of people what I’m thinking is where where are the buyers on the other end who’s actually supporting the price of that token and in what ways is the ecosystem setting up formats to to sustain that token so it
Doesn’t just continuously go down over time like a lot of the tokens that have just been Printing and printing for for months seem to be in the space yeah so again with proof of work you don’t have to buy it um the economic model is such that proof of work will inate
Produce tokens my bad coins for you as you mind and the the the valuation in the amount of those coins is dependent upon how many people M so in the beginning they’re not going to be worth a lot obviously uh but with adoption they get more and more and more value valuable and
With as they become expended in exchange for goods and services they come they become just like a fiat currency and so it’s something that Bitcoin and ethereum has been trying to do for for a while which is spawn the trade of goods and services right now it’s still better to
Swap your Bitcoin and ethereum for Fiat dollars and use your Fiat dollars to buy stuff but if you’ll notice there’s On The Fringe now goods and servic that you can buy directly with Bitcoin there’s goods and services that you can buy directly with ethereum now once these corporations who
Corporations and individual companies uh who produce these goods and services this is this is the only thing that has to happen and it blows my mind when I think about it the only thing that has to happen is the suppliers of the goods and services have to decide to take
Bitcoin that’s it they have to decide well good news on that ethereum I just saw just now live while we are recording this episode 100% of the Bitcoin spot ETFs have officially been approved if we’re talking about getting suppliers in the regular world to accept Bitcoin we
Just took like 100 steps closer to that step actively right now so I mean if your thought process is hey that’s how we get there is we we have to take not just our own your own token we have to take crypto in general from a level that it’s like speculative currency to
Spendable currency um do we get there in 2024 that’s a good question um I don’t I don’t know what the road map to getting there is but I do know the regular World taking it seriously has been a check mark that the industry has been fighting for for literally years and boom January
9th that just happened uh right now while you’re sitting in the the hyperx stadium in Vegas I’m over here in Tennessee um we are one step closer to your vision being realized yeah I don’t think Satoshi nagamoto whether he be a person or a group of people envisioned that Corporate America
Would would take this over now I I don’t know with respect to what I’m talking about he never V ized this uh not even in his white paper and so but I I can’t imagine that his vision was the people wouldn’t benefit from this in some way and that Corporate
America was going to be the ones that benefit from it um even though he didn’t spell that out maybe this is what he meant um I think I think this is the only use for proof of work is is to Aid civilians not not just Corporate America but
Civilians um it is the future of currency the government knows it now I don’t know if you’ve heard of fed now they claim it’s not a blockchain but if you go and you read what fed now does oh it facilitates the exchange of federally mandated uh medium transferable medium across borders
247 and it’s executable on a chain it’s a blockchain right they don’t call it a blockchain Fed now uh is definitely modeled after blockchains they could use that to collect their taxes uh from the pools that the corporations own they can connect fed now directly to the
Pools whatever proof of work your you’re doing and that that you’re aggregating to the uh the mining pools can connect directly to Fed now it can be fed into the system um they can use it for corporate transfers between other governments and other big corporations that they may be working with the
Infrastructure for this thing is already in set up from the government all the way down to the individual everything in your house can be used to mine cryptocurrency anything on an arm PR processor and up can be used to mine cryptocurrency they put arm processors in refrigerators they
Put them in microwaves uh you’ve got process powerful process processors in your cars these days in your modern cars so your car can mine cryptocurrency your refrigerator can your toaster can your microwave oven can your phone can your PC can uh your laptop can and all of
These are already allocated to the power grid and so with a tiny little software update we can kick this entire economic model off right now we could do it now uh the infrastructure is already there especially in the United States there’s nothing stopping us from this except adoption people understanding that we
Need to change and the administrative part with getting the government on board with it uh and that’s it the the the technology to do it is here now boom that’s your road map so I want to zoom out we’ve been getting into the like I asked you a pretty bold question about
How in the world do you make ideology become a reality um and you’ve painted that picture for us I want to zoom out because I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation that when Caesar and I looked at rkr your your token um just having like like a DJ investment
Conversation hey could we throw money at this and and watch it Bloom into something um I think my perspective of what you guys are building was like I zoomed in on a piece of what you were building I did mention in that that like hey like to me this feels like a means
For Universal basic income and I that’s a piece of the puzzle um if if you looked at reactor from the high level um you guys are not just a layer one you’re not just a game you’re not just a token um it really is in my mind a philosophy
Embodied by a cryptographic ecosystem and that philosophy is no civilan should be left behind as technology advances how can we get everybody benefiting from the advancements of technological Society uh and your idea is proof of work like proof of work is how people benefit so we’re going to build an
Ecosystem centered around this layer one that says whatever you’re doing what like whatever you’re whatever you’re using your technology for you could actually be producing your own income for yourself using that technology and income for the person who created that technology and so there is this like symbiotic relationship anytime I’m using
Any device at all um I think that’s a pretty awesome idea you’ve painted the picture of how you have to get there and I think that road is really going to be like that’s going to be the determining factor for you guys is like can we get
To the point of of having people take um the vision seriously because you we have the tech for it now we just have to convince people of it we have to sell them on it um I’m excited to watch you guys do that in in 2024 I think um again
Genuinely I I said this uh when I when we were recording that past episode talking about you guys before we sat down to talk with you I I I mentioned that like most of the projects that we look at for sure in this phase of a market cycle um are like very practical
Utility based like oo look what block blockchain does um it doesn’t usually uh I think it’s few and far between that I see projects that are saying hey we can upend entire uh systems that exist in the world we could change the way money works we could change the way government
Works we could change the way uh Society works but that was the basis for crypto at the start and so I think it’s fascinating to have these conversations this feels like a much bigger conversation than like hey can I buy this token for this game or can I buy
This token for this data storage or and all those things are good and necessary and important for crypto um but we don’t get to have these conversations very often of like hey could could we challenge the very fabric of our society with crypto um you remind me of uh I
Don’t know if you know who Eric Vorhees is but he gave a speech at permissionless the permission list conference this this last year in 2023 uh you should go listen to it if you haven’t I’ll send it to you on Twitter um where he was talking about um just
The the rebellion and the Anarchy of what crypto is supposed to be like hey let’s it’s important that we build all of the cool things but let’s not forget that crypto is not just about building cool things like it is about challenging everything that we live in and I think
That’s what you’re tapping into um I think it’s fascinating I love learning from you Jerry and and listening to what you guys are are building um I think it’s it’s awesome um if you could just as a as a closing question I think there are people that are going to listen to
This that are going to say dang that is way different than anything that I have listened to in crypto thus far everything is token talk everything is like I don’t know I most of our conversations right now focus on ETFs and rwa and uh decentralized data and like hey this is
Like something that is honestly different how do I connect with you where where would the prime spot be for them to get involved not with just buying a token or mining a token and we’re playing the game but like getting involved in you mentioned it’s going to
Be that Grassroots effort of hey if we want to win this battle um if we want to win this war it has to be people not corporations it has to be um individuals not just money where where should people go to join that Grassroots or at least
To engage with you guys yeah so we’re heavily involved as a community on telegram we’re we’re very concentrated on one location and it’s telegram so if you want to get involved if you want to ask Direct questions to me and the and the team join our telegram group um I’m
Sure we can post a link somewhere with this in the video yeah put it right down here wherever you’re listening it’s in the description so we are highly concentrated as a community in Telegram and we are highly focused on disseminating information on X so telegram X is where we’re focusing so if
You’ll join uh those you’ll be right in there you’ll be right in there with us you can talk to us directly uh and you can support us by helping us propagate the message on X and once we have the uh xplatform saturated you know we’ll move over to other uh platforms but as
Mentioned we have to do this a piece at a time this is real Grassroots we have to we have to have your consent to move forward if we don’t have your support we’ve got nothing we can have a billion dollars in the bank and we still have
Nothing this is not just about making money for for me this is looking at my children and wondering is my son going to have to learn how to carry a weapon in the future and kill people or is he going to be happy you know what what what is going
To happen and right now I can’t answer that question because the government is not providing any solution against what they know is coming they know they know it’s coming the the AI arms race is what Y what you’re pointing at yeah we’ve debated about that like crazy on the show there’s a very
Ominous underbelly to this and I don’t like to talk about it but one solution is to have a smaller population this is not a solution in my mind agreed easily agreed yeah man I uh yeah I would agree that the idea that crypto can solve actual problems that are
Coming up you mentioned the under underbelly that are rising up as we advance uh as a society and so can we develop those solutions for ourselves because nobody’s going to create them for us it it has to be created by the people so respect that admire that um
It’s been fantastic man thank you for letting us pick your brain Jerry um I really appreciate it I’m excited to see what you guys do in 2024 you’ve got a beefy road map to fill out I was looking at your road map earlier um excited to
See what you guys pull off thank you very much for having me on here um when I saw the the cast earlier I knew you guys were the right guys giving really good critiques um I had already started working on the light paper but you’re just reaffirming that the information needs
To be there um and you didn’t do that in such a way that was demeaning of the project I really appreciate that you guys are uh topnotch I appreciate it thank you yeah thank you Jerry yeah thank you yeah I respect that um and you got that out so
Fast I know I said that on Twitter but we published the EP but I’m like okay these guys want this light paper I’m doing it I’m doing it tonight so I I set up all night it was something like a couple hours later you like oh you
Mentioned this here’s it here it is in its entirety go read it so yeah um I I mean it was right after we published that I was I mentioned on Twitter yeah I was uh dancing with my kids to I don’t know the the vinyl record in the living
Room and you and we Pro published the episode probably four hours before that and you had uh you dropped it so I appreciate it I told Caesar that before we started the episode that a lot of the like the criticisms I had you were already pumping out responses to in real
Time rapidly so excited to see you guys grow and conquer for this year uh and I’m sure we will continue following up if you want to find reactor and everything they’re building you can find their links right here uh to the telegram and the Twitter it’ll be in the
Description unless you’re listening on Twitter otherwise just click on their name that we tag there appreciate you for listening appreciate you for joining us Jerry much love