This Bull Run Will Be EXPLOSIVE But It’ll End Sooner Than You Think!

On today’s special episode of Crypto Banter Friday, we’re joined by legendary investors; Meltem Demirors and Jordi Alexander to talk about the recent EXPLOSION in Bitcoin and which altcoins we’re adding to our portfolio before what could be the biggest crypto bull market of all time! DO NOT MISS THIS!

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👉 Meltem Demirors: https://twitter.com/Melt_Dem
👉 Jordi Alexander: https://twitter.com/gametheorizing
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– https://www.cryptobanter.com/our-ethics/

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– – –

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𝗗𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗹𝗮𝗶𝗺𝗲𝗿:
Crypto Banter is a social podcast for entertainment purposes only!
All opinions expressed by the hosts, guests and callers should not be construed as financial advice! Views expressed by guests and hosts do not reflect the views of the station. Listeners are encouraged to do their own research.

#CryptoNews #Bitcoin #TradingAltcoins

⏱𝗧𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗺𝗽𝘀:
00:00 Bitcoin Price, Coinbase Results & Money Inflow
06:01 Meltem Demirors & Jordi Alexander Join the Banter
07:08 The Most Hated Crypto Rally – Bitcoin ETF Inflows
08:53 Retail Numbers – Who is Fueling this Crypto Rally?
13:20 Should We Be Scared? Ethereum Spot ETF Approval
15:10 Is the Bitcoin Halving Cycle Changing?
19:05 Gold ETF vs Bitcoin ETFs & Stocks
20:34 ETH Spot ETF Approval Date & ETH ETF Trade
22:00 Advantages of ETH – An Obvious Trade?
28:06 Crypto Gaming & DeFi on Ethereum
29:35 Loyalty to Ethereum Compared to Bitcoin
31:00 ETH Layer2 Narrative – TVL & Side Chains
33:00 Usage On-Chain – What Projects to Invest in Now
40:29 What is Jordi Alexander Investing in?
42:35 Stacks STX – A Date with Meltem Demirors
45:13 Meltem’s Investment Narratives – DePIN – Render
50:03 Decentralized File Storage – Filecoin & Arweave
52:18 Crypto Culture – Trading Meme Coins

🎬𝗪𝗮𝘁𝗰𝗵 𝗠𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗖𝗿𝘆𝗽𝘁𝗼 𝗩𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗼𝘀:

🔎𝗥𝗲𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗦𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗰𝗵𝗲𝘀: Bitcoin – Crypto News – Daily Crypto Market Update – Altcoins – Crypto – Jordi Alexander – Meltem Demirors

So we’re still powering away aren’t yet here in other words the money from the institutions hasn’t yet started flowing and you can listen to this I’m anticipating that by the time we get to the end of 2025 we’re talking two years we’re going to see total inflows of more

Than $150 billion we’re only at five right now and what is what is going to propel that’s a big claim that’s a big number what’s going to propel that it really isn’t all that big when you do the simple arithmetic individual investment advisers Independents those that are operating their own firms

Collectively manage around $8 trillion in assets and 3/4 of them in every industry survey done by Dak FP as well as by bitwise all show that 3ars of advisers say that they’re going to allocate to these ETFs and that their average allocation is going to be about

25% of assets do the arithmetic $8 trillion time 77% time 2.2% is 150 billion dollar with the flows and that’s just in independent advisors it excludes the wirehouses it excludes the regional broker dealers it so long story short we can see that the institutions also aren’t here which means that we’re at

This price over here we’re at Jord with us today and what they’re going to be talking about is what they’re investing in and how quickly they have been making their Investments to catch this bull market so listen today’s bullish super super super bullish let’s go let’s let’s have a bullish Friday

Banter so I mean it blew my mind yesterday when when I was listening to coin based results and when they said like pretty much in the results they were like listen the retail is not your yet our money is not coming from retail and then they also said like well

Institutions also really haven’t arrived relative to what we’re expecting and I just started thinking hold on a second if that’s right and right now we’re at 51,000 we we’re we’re still 60 days away from the Haring um this is going to be much bigger than we thought way way way

Way way bigger than we thought I mean again just read these numbers um still still the the numbers were higher but still below Q4 2020 and 16% only 16% of the Q4 2021 Peak imagine that their revenue from retail activity is only 16% from the 2021 Peak that is what

We have to get ourselves ready for and so I think in this bull market I think we’re going to land up making a lot of money because we’re here early it’s basically this is this price rise is us we here early and those that are here

Early are end up making most of the money but guys just a reminder that when if you are going to make money if you are going to make money the problem is that people are going to start coming after your money the bigger crypto grows the more people are going to start

Coming after your money you have to protect yourself there was a guy in the office this week I’m not going to mention his name because I think he’s suffered enough um who clicked on a malicious website this week his entire wallet he connected his wallet which he probably shouldn’t have done his entire

Wallet has gone $30,000 out of his wallet gone Gone Gone there’s nothing you can do about it the more money you make the more people are going to come after your money what you need to be doing is you need to protect yourself get yourself a VPN a VPN masks your IP

Address you can see that right now my IP address is visible they know exactly where I am and they can even work out my address and that’s not only the authorities it’s it’s hackers it’s everybody else for $3 a month you can protect yourself it’s $3 a month for you

To protect yourself that’s it do it guys and once you’ve got that you’ve got to also get the other product which is threat protect because had the guy in the office had this website over here he probably would have picked up that this was a malicious website not the real

Website he wouldn’t have connected his wallet and he would have landed up saving his money if you do want to get a VP and you do want to support the channel just go to the bottom of the video you’ll see there’s a link like that below click on this link sign up

For threat protection sign up for for the nordvpn guys please protect yourselves I I I saw what this poor guy went through maybe if he agrees we’ll get him onto the show next week and he can tell you exactly what he did it’s just not worth it it’s just not worth it

Anyway let’s talk about happy positive things you want happy positive things remember if you want uh a chance to win the app Apple Vision Pros you know what you need to do you go to the bottom of the video you sign up to to Crypt banter

With any exchange link um sign up with any exchange link also if you want to win the banter bags uh sign up with any exchange link subscribe to Banter subscribe to Banter plus subscribe let’s smash the like button and let’s get the show on the road in today is an

Absolutely absolutely crazy crazy crazy bullish bullish bullish show because not only are we going to talk about all the money flows not only are we going to talk about about uh how quickly the inflows have been coming not only are we going to talk about how high this bull

Market’s going to go and all the narratives that malam and Jord are investing in but we’re also going to look at the individual altcoins the individual altcoins that each one of them is buying so I think the first question I want to ask them is whether

Or not they were surprised by the speed at which this blue Market happened Jord Melton welcome back how are you guys good out there yeah it’s intense out there fair to say a little bit C caught out by surprise or if I would have asked you six months ago if Bitcoin

Would be trading at $552,000 on the week of Valentine’s Day you would have said that’s exactly the plan so I don’t know if it was the plan exactly but um part of me is not surprised I’ve been expecting a supply squeeze at some point as soon as we there’s more demand than

Supply you know Bitcoin doesn’t have a way to create more Bitcoin so this was sort of inevitable I’m surprised it’s happening right now it just it’s just a little sudden but look I’m I’m the biggest bull in the world and I was bullish when everybody else was bearish and people

Call me always full of hopium and there’s not if you would have asked me is there any chance that we’re going to be at 52,000 in the second week of Feb just one month and a few days after the ETF I would have said to you there is

Absolutely no chance in hell Melton what do you think most hated rally I went on TV I said this is about to be the most hated rally in November of last year we are still in the most hated rally because nobody was expecting it all of

The gurus out there were saying oh the ETF is a sell the news event oh nothing’s gonna happen until Q3 Q4 of this year because look at the chart look at the last three Cycles and look at where we are history definitely Rhymes but it doesn’t repeat look the fact that

Black rock IIT five billion in 30 days that’s crazy town for an ETF that’s in that’s insane QQQ which is one of the largest ETFs in the world it’s taking them 20 years right to get to I think what 250 260 billion in the first 30 days ibit has five billion in

Inflows that’s that’s monstrous anyway you look at it so I remember haters keep not stopping I remember when we spoke before the ETF launch we said that if we get between five And1 billion do in the first three months that would be an astounding astounding astounding success here we

Are 1 month and I don’t know five six days after the actual official approval Black Rock over 5 billion Fidelity probably by the time you know this air is over 5 billion um and then you know another five billion and the gbtc inflows also coming out now obviously

One must look at when we say five billion remember that the Bitcoin price has gone up a lot and if this was on last week’s price we would be at 4.9 billion but still they’ve still got 102,000 um uh uh uh bit Bitcoin under their their belt so to speak but the big

Question for me is is the following right so we’re in this bull market when I look at the retail numbers and I’ve got a couple of metrics that show me retail numbers I look at Google searches I look at this is for me the most important metric which is the YouTube

Subscribers not because I think it’s great that we have YouTube subscribers but this tells us when new retail people are coming in it’s not retail that’s here this this rally is not being bought up by retail then I look at the institutional money and I don’t know if

You guys heard this I’ll play it again in case you haven’t but just by the time we get to the end of 2025 we’re talking 2 years we’re going to see total flows of more than $150 billion we’re only at five right now and what is what is going

To propel that’s a big claim that’s a big number what’s going to propel that it really isn’t all that big when you do the simple arithmetic individual investment advisers Independents those that are operating their own firms collectively manage around $8 trillion in assets and three4 of them in every

Industry survey done by Dak FP as well as by bitwise all show that 3/4s of advisers say that they’re going to allocate to to these ETFs and that their average allocation is going to be about 22% of assets do the arithmetic $8 trillion time 77% time 2.5% is $150

Billion worth the flows and that’s just in independent advisors it excludes the wirehouses it excludes the regional broker dealers it excludes the institutional investors I mean so so I mean it’s fair to say that the retailers aren’t yet but the institutional investors also haven’t got you yet so who’s fueling this rally

That’s a scary part right like imagine when they do come what GNA happen but that’s why I’m asking because I’m trying to work out like if the money hasn’t yet started to flow in and this whole rally is about the first 100,000 Bitcoin being bought in the Black Rock ETF and the

Advisor not yet advising their clients and getting approval from investment committees and stuff like that and most advisor not even out there yet and it’s not retail that’s funding this really what happens next well the s up is very simple the beautiful thing about Bitcoin is all of

The data on is on chain right so we look at the data around Bitcoin 70% of coins haven’t moved in over a year coins on Exchange reaching alltime lows this is the the short squeeze right this is OTC discs OTC discs running out of coins

This is the the lot the statistic that I that I showed on my show this week OTC discs just don’t have enough Reserves at the moment to fulfill demand we’re running out of coins also really interesting by the way if you talk to the big firms right a

Fidelity not every Fidelity client is allowed to buy their EF yet if you talk to Goldman only private wealth clients can currently buy the ETF Vanguard won’t even let their clients buy I’m on Schwab Schwab won’t let clients buy the ETFs right so if you think about these quote

Unquote floodgates there’s so many places where people who are accessing the market through a a brokerage account or through money manager and ra they can’t even touch these products yet because they haven’t moved from this high-risk bucket that’s only available to high net worth clients or private

Clients it hasn’t moved out of that bucket yet and so that’s what’s really interesting to me right is yes these products are live but they’re not accessible on many of the retail Platforms in fact there was a huge move on crypto Twitter right trying to cancel Charles Schwab for not offering these

Nine tickers right or 11 however many it is at this point to to average clients it’s ridiculous ulous um so I just think it’s it’s I am not prepared for what’s about to happen next and I’ve been one of the idiotic maniacal people who’s been pounding the table on this vision

Of Bitcoin ETF for the last eight years professionally right first a dcg with graay scale now at at coin shares we’ve been pounding the table for this now that it’s here um I’m not gonna lie I’m a little scared I wasn’t prepared I’m must I must be honest I must be honest

You Ed the word scared and I never thought I’d say I was scared of a b bull market but I’m scared and I I’ll tell you why I’m scared because in all the preparations that I made the amount of money that I invested the infrastructure

That I built the people that I built I didn’t expect for it to happen so quickly and so viciously Jord how do you feel are you scared you don’t look scared I’m not scared and I’ll tell you why and like all three of us here and I

Think you a lot of people watching the show we are like educated about a space that a lot of people are going to want to start figuring out about and learning about and um you you know the the price is the best advertisement and that’s why like it’s not about Bitcoin being

Overvalued or undervalued because as the price goes up its value goes up because more people sort of Buy in and like you more people need to allocate so um you know even though I am like you know a bit surprised that it it’s happening

Suddenly um I I do think that we need to take into account that we are fortunate that we’ve you know been learning about all this stuff and we understand um you know Bitcoin and ethereum you know it’s not just Bitcoin right like ethereum I think very likely is is going to get an

ETF um later this year so that’s going to be an interesting rotation that I’m quite excited about um I mean I love Bitcoin I I don’t know if you remember ran we were with Richard Hart like about a what was it like a during the bare

Market after FTX he was telling us oh it’s going to go to 11k that’s and we’re like come on man and he’s like no 11 so you know I think I think things have changed okay so I want to ask you what’s happened we’ve been here for many cycles

I know I know all of us have been here for many cycles Melton’s been here for way longer than I have in fact I remember when I first started uh and I first met melum I actually met her when I was with CNBC and I was doing the CNBC

Show and we actually met in New York and we shot we shot a couple of interviews in New York I know jordie’s also been here for a while and having been here for a while we’ve all seen the Haring cycle the the Haring cycles and we’ve

All seen this this you know in various forms we’ve seen that Bitcoin hits has a little dip before the the Haring hits the Haring and then one year later more or less one year later hits an alltime High um the question is is everything happening quicker and sooner is the

Haring cycle changing like What’s Happening Here I can I I can give my take really quickly I think one of the interesting things here is the macro setup is very different than it has been in the last 15 years of bitcoin’s History I’m bu no means the macro expert and I won’t claim

To be but Bitcoin historically has been around in a zero interest rate environment right and really only for the last 18 months are we no longer in a Zer environment right it’s a new paradigm quote unquote if you will not to sound you know silly but it I think

It really is a new paradigm uh the dollar is under a lot of pressure you know us debt is at staggering levels and the government doesn’t even have enough revenues to service the the debt right so we’re just in this really interesting Dynamic where I think all of a sudden

All of the things we’ve been talking in our industry and this little microcosm on crypto Twitter is starting to make a lot of sense to a whole lot of other people and I think that starts to change the Dynamics I also think the market itself structurally like crypto’s Market

Micr structure has changed historically crypto markets kind of operated outside of traditional Capital markets there wasn’t a lot of connection activity moving capital in and out of crypto is challenging the ETF is one route but don’t forget JP Morgan Goldman Jane Street sahana like Hudson River Trading

All these big firms um Cumberland right drw they all have crypto desks they’re all trading crypto regularly they all have more traditional clients who historically have invested across a large number of sa classes so this big hot ball of money that before has been limited just to the capital that’s

Already in crypto and has entered its way in through tether or the traditional banking system there’s now so many more routes into crypto and I think that starts to fundamentally change the picture as well and that actually for me is interesting to observe the eth dynamic eth used to be sort of the

On-ramp into the longer taale of higher risk assets and there’s always a rotation right Bitcoin wealth effect people start to move further out on the risk curve the way you got into those assets last cycle was through eth so you had a lot of people acquiring eth to buy

Erc20 tokens now it’s no longer just eth right there are all of these high-risk longtail assets that people want to rotate their wealth into and you can get in through a variety of institutional sort of exchange trafi channels you can get in through other cryptocurrencies salana obviously seeing this effect

Happening real time I think um they’re going to be a number of other l1s that see that sort of Bitcoin wealth effect carry over this year so I just think there are some fundamental factors that have changed a macro B market micr structure and see the way that you

Access the longer tale of risk assets in crypto okay okay Jordy what do you think you know we haven’t heard like a lot of chatter about the hining like maybe because the inflation rates already kind of low and so you know it’s different if you go from 8 to four you

Know four to two and two to one it starts starts to like not have as big an impact um but it does see feel like it’s more about the institutions are coming which you know people thought was a meme but the reality is like you can have 10

Ecuador and you know random countries adopting Bitcoin but like one black rock just sneezes and it’s and it’s just like a tital wave right it’s just a different level of assets that we’re talking about um so at this point I think the institutional adoption um really through like you know

Outflows of other assets I think the interesting thing I saw was that the gold ETF is having two billion of outflows I got to show you this I I have it here I have it here so I have the I actually have the correlation right here which is um you got the

Bitcoin ETF doing this and you got go doing this which is I mean I don’t know if it’s a I mean is it a coincidence no I don’t think so I mean I’m one of those people who like when I really got into Bitcoin in 2020 I used

To have gold and I just got out of my gold and I just rotated I was like this makes more sense so um Jordy you are not on Peter schiff’s Christmas list anymore no it’s okay never worse you’re you’re on satoshi’s Christmas list Christmas list and it’s all good my

Friend so I mean do you think do you think that that’s a real thing that I mean do you really think that wealth managers are putting 1 to 2% out of their gold dedications and putting it into the new gold and Larry fin went on TV and said

That their clients are clamoring and like they want access to these products I I don’t think he was making it up so it’s it’s pretty evident that you know like I said the the price itself will drive more uh pressure it’s kind of like apple right like everybody owns Apple

Because if you don’t have it like you know you kind of screwed up your portfolio uh Nvidia whatever you know Tesla at some point it kind of gets like more stocks but um I think Bitcoin is is one of those stocks and I think ethereum will be like the cool thing for the

Boomers pretty soon as well okay let’s talk about ethereum because I think that that’s the the elephant in the room yeah eth has done pretty much nothing everyone keeps saying that the obvious next trade is the eth ETF trade trade and that this eth ETF is going to come

Down I mean I saw this this tweet of you it says 100 days left until the eth ETF approval um and so there’s you know this is now everyone’s now counting the days for the eth ETF approval is it a real thing because I’ll show you something

Else that I saw I’ve seen this which is like people are so frustrated by eth that they’re kind of going this the crypto money flow cycle Bitcoin large caps midc caps low caps and this time there’s no eth we’re not seeing that Bitcoin eth large caps they just kind of

Going Bitcoin large caps small caps first of all do is the eth ETF trade an obvious thing or not I mean I don’t think eth has done terribly if if we look at the ratio it’s uh it’s actually quite a bit up today and we’re kind of getting back to that

0.0055 and the reality is with eth you’re also getting you know call it like an extra 5% yield on top of that every year so it’s it’s performing fine it has like outperformed as a higher beta that’s true um I mean I don’t know

If I don’t I don’t know if I want to call that performing fine when I look at the the eth BTC chart and then if I look at the soul eth chart I mean that paints a completely different picture I mean I think e been an under

Performer it has been um but do we want to look backwards or look forwards right so that’s what I’m asking are we looking forwards and saying that the ETF trade is an obvious trade or maybe just skip the ETF trade trade and just go straight to other big large

Caps uh I think it’s a it’s an obvious trade and sometimes you can overthink like the simple obvious answer in front of you and and do something stupid um the good thing with eth is like the supply is out there’s no VC unlocks every single month for the next

You know four years like some of these other coins have it’s deflationary it’s not even you know inflationary at this point um it had a little bit of a narrative wobble I think with uh the high fees and like the interoperability of l2s not being amazing but I think the

Boomers are going to love the yield clipping you know they they love clipping coupons they’re gonna like that stuff uh reaking you know they’re gonna they’re gonna get into it pretty hard okay I I want to we’re going to have this eth discussion but melum I want to

Ask you is the eth ETF trade an obvious trade I mean when we talk in May and June is eth going to be higher because there’s an ETF eth ETF on the horizon or just about or just ready to launch um you know I’m not going to Mid

Curve it right let’s left curve it and say yes absolutely eth is not Bitcoin I just we’re I don’t think we’re going to see five billion of INF flows in 30 days into an eth ETF just very simply put um I also think that like Bitcoin is still

King daddy of crypto liquidity um eth for a long time right last cycle certainly eth was sort of the gateway to the rest of the crypto ecosystem you no longer have to go through eth a lot of people are getting their first exposure to the crypto ecosystem through salana

Or other high throughput chains that have much lower fees right because when you’re trading 00 bucks you don’t want to spend 20 $30 on transaction fees doesn’t make sense so I think for a lot of the newcomers in this next cycle eth is not going to be their first entry

Point into crypto and I do think that fundamentally Chang changes the Dynamics that’s my view that’s probably very mid curve of me um doesn’t sound so it doesn’t sound like you’re that much of an ethb it sounds like you’re Med lukewarm mediocre at best on

Eth um I would look I I love ethereum I think ethereum has done incredible things for the crypto ecosystem I think when it comes to the application layer ethereum is still sort of the place for Innovation at the moment and I think the reaking narrative right that’s emerging

ING with igen layer is going to be a huge one I think it unlocks tremendous amount of liquidity just in terms of like stake to eth and using that as liquid collateral across the defi ecosystem I do think ethereum has a very complicated scaling road map I do think

The ethereum narrative has has struggled as Jordy has pointed out um the question for me is like Bitcoin has a very unique narrative right like Bitcoin is digital goal Bitcoin is money backed by physics like Bitcoin has a very strong narrative in my view some people see that as a negative I actually

Think that’s a very big positive for Bitcoin that makes people feel very comfortable holding Bitcoin um what I struggle with a bit more is does ethereum have the same strength of narrative and can it maintain market share as more and more l1’s launch whether they have the svm or competitive

Ability with ethereum’s evm which allows you to utilize a lot of the ethereum DAP ecosystem right on those newer higher throughput chains the question is can ethereum preserve mind share and market share that’s the open question for me I don’t actually have a definitive answer I think the ethereum community is very

Strong but there are no real ethereum Maxis there are ton of Hardcore toxic Bitcoin Maxis who are sort of like the the army of Bitcoin ethereum doesn’t really have that type of loyalty I can’t really name a lot of ethereum Maxis so that narrative loyalty I don’t I don’t

Know if that’s there I don’t know shorty I’d love you your thoughts I want to hear your views here I mean it look like you’re dying to say something no I mean I I do know a bunch of people that I would consider ethereum Maxis at least

Like sasano and you know um very few yeah well that that that uh I don’t know I I feel like the ethereum people who really believe in it are still around look I I have used like some of the other chains I’ve been playing around I’ve played

With suie it’s yeah it is like water it just like you click click and then like stuff goes through it’s it’s pretty cool um it’s a bit annoying like you know W for Welcome to the other side sir welcome to the other side I I’ll tell you I’ll tell you the way I

Tell you the way I see ethereum and I’ve said it before I think that in a world where you have things like sui and I must say sui is an amazing experience and you have things like salana and salana is an amazing experience it’s allowed people to trade in and out of

Meme coins which they didn’t they couldn’t ordinarily do because of of fees and stuff like that I think the only thing that eth actually has going for it is eth and tvl and everything that’s already built on it and I think that if like any developer who’s looking

For anything other than tvl or needs 100% % decentralization and reliability I don’t think Sana did any favors to Itself by going down again I mean other than that I don’t really I don’t see the reason to be bullish on eth and that’s why I’m not that bullish on the eth ETF

Trade you know you you said tvas if it’s like one of 10 things and maybe it is one of 10 things but it matters more than the other nine things combined uh you know it’s all about like where’s the money Mone right like what do you mean like uh I mean yeah some

Gaming stuff doesn’t matter you know they’ll they’ll build anywhere that’s fast and and I think gaming is uh maybe going to be on l3s right like on top of IMX or something like it’s not going to be like anything related to base ethereum but when it comes to like defi

Right which is um maybe the the biggest use case yeah like you you look at some of these chains and like Celestia like some of these other ones you know what’s the TV on these chains like there’s no money there so you can’t really do that

Much um so I think it matters more and I think it’s hard to Envision you know all the like 100 B billion of stable coins moving to um like SOI right away maybe maybe over time okay Melton what do you think I mean to what Jord

Saying I look I still maintain I think ethereum has tremendous amount of Mind share right now now I do think a lot of the wealth that has been created in the last two crypto Cycles in particular right the first cycle was very Bitcoin and non- ethereum shitcoin focus right

If you remember some of the very early icos like mastercoin and and dash that was Cycle One cycle two Advent of ethereum erc20 tokens cycle three this last cycle we had a lot of Defi and again very ethereum uh focused now we have the emergence of l2s and other high

Through l1s I think it’s going to start to shift the question is how quickly does that happen and what does ethereum’s role in that new world look like open open question um again my view is and this is sort of maybe a heretical view here my view is

Is the Loyalty that people have to ethereum is not at all similar to the Loyalty that people have to bitcoin Bitcoin is religion to people Bitcoin is Mantra Satoshi you know know is this Messianic figure to people Bitcoin is religion ethereum is is not religion to people it’s big hot ball of money

Liquidity defi you know access to the sky casino but now there’s all these new roads into the sky casino that are faster cheaper that have their own Doctrine their own sort of philosophy so um I’m I’m not convinced on you know e being the dominant narrative um for all

Innovation over the next two to five years I just there are a lot of there are a lot of layer 2 Launches on ethna I mean you got stocket coming up now you’ve probably got ZK sync coming up you’ve got igen layer which you can kind

Of say arguably is some kind of eth not not an eth layer to let’s not forget base Bas is huge right because Bas is directly accessible through coinbase.com which for so many people is still the onramp into the crypto ecosystem so I mean maybe the the the narrative is not

The eth narrative but it’s the eth L2 narrative and then the eth L2 narrative is is kind of like to me almost feels like a race in itself is it going to be ZK sync is it going to be I mean is it going to be optimism is it when I say

Bas when I say optimism I kind of mean optimism SL Bas is it going to be is it going to be arbitrum is it going to be I mean I don’t know it could be that that actually the the the narrative is all the different l2s right I mean

Matic but let’s not forget right that l2s also we’re starting to see l2s that make the evm compatible with other higher throughput layer one chains right so this idea that liquidity is going to stay sort of stranded on eth layer one or it’s going to be eth specifically I I

Don’t know if I agree with that right because you’ve got Wormhole you’ve got Eclipse launching soon which is going to bridge the svm um right and so there’s all of these new things launching that are going to help that big hot ball of money that’s currently tvl on ethereum

Move elsewhere so to me the question is like what are the competitive modes that are going to keep capital in the ethereum system on ethereum L1 and that’s where you know the narrative is also really important and I think the narrative is starting to to shift a bit

There’s a lot of Focus right now on High throughput new l1s and a lot of enthusiasm because the upside is much higher I mean I must say from what you’re saying it does sound to me that most the tvl will migrate off ethereum and when I say e theum it’ll migrate

Into all the different side chains into I don’t know all the side chains that we spoken to and I mean that’s probably where the most tvl capture would be Jord you were about to say something yeah I’m not as big on the altel ones there’s always going to be 20

30 new Alo ones every cycle and they’re all going to pump it’s always like you know like the big VCS they just keep investing in them and it just always works it never fails um but at the end of the the day I think you know most of them don’t exist

Like four years later only like one or two even are stay relevant at all um like which ones are apart from Solana you know you could arguably say like Avalanche is still alive but um you know you kind of you see that a lot of them don’t survive very long I’m gonna

Disagree with you Jord I’m gonna disagree with you too top 20 top 20 right now salana $50 billion market cap cardano 21 billion Avalanche it’s not like say card is like any anything that anyone uses heard I haven’t heard a peep out of polka dot ecosystem that’s an 11

Billion doll ecosystem yeah but but but we could I mean you could argue that the Market’s just mispricing them let’s look at let’s not look at market cap let’s look at let’s look at usage on chain so I mean we can say that salana really does have usage on chain right I mean

You can’t argue that BC but are we talking about investing here well but I mean at some point fundamentals ran do you want to be right or do you want to make money if the objective is to make money you follow the big hot ball of money yeah but I

Think what Jord is saying is the hot bow of money is going to become a hot potato and it’s going to be chucked from and and at the end of the cycle which is you know what matters when you want to make money is how much money you keep not how

Much money you make and I think what Jord is saying at the end of it all of these things are going to start coming down and maybe maybe maybe one or two of them are going to survive did I get it right yeah I mean I I think uh if you’re

Invested in cardano and polka dot this cycle and you’re you think you’re going to outperform you’re you’re not going to make it and maybe they’re still top 20 because you know we still don’t have that many like you know world class legit stuff but once igen lay launches

And monad launches and some of these things start to kind of creep up those things will fall off right and right now I don’t know that like you want to have an allocation to some of these coins even like XR P I mean it’s not performing well I was looking at the

Price it let not was double let’s not bring back let’s not bring back skons but one thing I can say to that the forgot RP Jordy oh my goodness I just like glossed over it on my little screen how one thing I can say though one thing

I can say though is that the technology that we’re seeing now is much better technology like as you say a lot of people are using suie and sui does work and it works very well and it’s comfortable to use it’s very very very user friendly

If you look at this this the speed that you’re getting out of the say blockchain unparalleled speeds I think in in the industry yes there there are a couple of trade-offs but and you know the use cases around Celestia for data availability like these things are things that we need in the

Infrastructure that don’t currently exist and are being filled now you know my investment thesis says do I rather want to be in eth or do I rather want to be in these shiny objects that may actually change the world and I don’t know my my my my dness the magnet inside

My dness pulls me more towards being part of these things than staying in the eth ecosystem but that’s because I’m a d there must be some building at mim’s house there’s like drilling there do you hear this it’s all good it’s all good we can

Hear we can hear you and when you talk we don’t hear it okay so what I was going to say is okay I think this question though ran it really depends on the type of investor that you are and how much time you dedicate to investing in and trading crypto agree for the

Average person this is why the Bitcoin ETF is great someone like my dad he’s like crypto awesome he’s not gonna spend time oh can you hear it yeah talk it’s when we when you talk we don’t hear it I don’t know what the is going on um but like

For someone like my dad right Bitcoin is a great way to access crypto he’s in his Fidelity account he can just type in the ticker buy doesn’t have to think about it doesn’t have to read about crypto doesn’t have to learn anything doesn’t have to download an app I try to get him

On coinbase he’s like no thank you I’m good so perfect for that type of investor that’s why I actually think ethereum ETF the way it’s going to get marketed by institutions is like oh ethereum’s like the gateway to the world of composability defi you know this exciting world of smart contracts

Programmable money great they’re love it buy the ticker in your brokerage account cool you’re good you don’t need to you know be hopping between chains idiots like me and you ran Jordy I’m lumping you in with us I’m sorry I have like 17 different wallets in my browser I have

Three different phones like I’m a complete degenerate I’m on every chain I’m doing all the things I spend all my time on this for me all the l1s make sense but it really depends like what type of investor are you what’s your appetite for risk and how plugged in are

You the reality is a lot of people that cycle I think are going to get into crypto through these new l1s they’re not even going to know about ethereum they’re just going to know soie or salana or whatever the L1 is they use to get into the ecosystem they’re not even

Going to know how to use ether like I’ve been meeting people who’ve never used ethereum their only experience with crypto to date is using salana actually the one that’s been getting um a lot of utilization which is really interesting to me is people who have been using like

O osmosis and using Cosmos that’s their experience with crypto which is crazy right because we think of everyone learning about crypto and and Defi and onchain all the things through ethereum but there are all these newcomers for whom that’s not the case because they’re not spending you know 20

To $30 on chain for transaction Jord what do you think I think the l2s are going to make it I mean it’s already like 10 cents to to use like mantle or ZK sync and the other ones are you know going to get cheaper once 4844 comes comes on um the

Cost is like the one thing I agree like nobody wants to spend 20 bucks and you know I can afford it but I still hate like you know when I do something on Main net and it’s just like absolutely destroys my destroys every part of my being when I do on

Etherum yeah but the reality is attention is limited and um the thing that ethereum has at least is that everybody has heard of it everybody knows what it is there’s all the builders there there’s all the conferences everything’s going on I have no idea what’s going on on app TOS like

I know the name I have no zero things happening there my attention is limited I can and I’m I’m on this stuff like all day I I live and breathe 24 hours I’m breathing crypto if you’re not getting my attention like how are you how are

You gonna like on board I don’t know a million okay let me go one but Jord is already rich like you’re already plugged into crypto if you go out there and you talk to people on the street like I met someone last week who actually uses

Monero like to to fund his his life ‘s privacy coins he’s completely off the grid like the people who are actually using crypto actually they they live a totally different reality than you and me Jordy and I feel out of touch like we’re kind

Of the Boomers of of crypto in a way I think so hold on Jord Jord I need I need to ask this in terms of your like your your investing thesis I mean what does it look like what do you what what are you putting your money

Into so you know we do a good amount of seed rounds and we try to like look at what’s Innovative I’m kind of done with like this life cycle thing of like oh this is curve but it’s on Avalanche or this is like the Unis swap on polygon

Like I don’t care about that stuff um if you’re doing something a little bit different a little bit unique um you know we’re we’re looking at an intense for example like I think a account abstraction intense is going to be what’s going to make people use crypto

Because they don’t need to like figure out the slippage and all this thing they just want to say like I want to buy this and like it just magically gets done behind the scenes and they don’t want to figure out the gas and all these things

Um so that’s a space that you know and in terms of in terms of listed tokens on the market so like Bitcoin ethereum I know you’re a big investor in the l2s I know that you’re also a chief they call your Chief optimism officer what is that

Chief chief Alchemist I I make the magic happen okay so I know I know you’re a chief Alchemist of of a of an L2 um yeah I mean other than the Bitcoin ethereum and ethereum L2 landscape what does jordi’s listed token investment thesis look

Like look I mean I’m not a fan of uh like multi-billion projects for beta because they can only pump a little bit like how you know few X um so generally like when I get outside of Bitcoin eth which I have bit Holdings and those it looks

Like um upand cominging stuff that I think is going to catch fire and um you know I was looking today at Axel I think at 1 billion it’s it’s it’s it’s quite reasonable I think U layer zero and Wormhole are going to be 10 billion um so there there’s like some plays that

Are are still quite interesting yeah so I mean yeah I must say EXA by the way you know that the last round that they raised uh before the token listed in the previous cycle was at a dollar and I think right now it’s probably trading more or less at

The same price so I mean but yeah I mean I hear your thesis melim I know that you’re um uh I know that you’re a full-on Deen um and look I read somewhere that if you go long stacks then melum will go on a date with you I

Don’t know if that’s just a rumor that is correct I am going on three dates in the next week um with Stacks community members yep why are you so bullish and I must say I did a show on Stacks yesterday actually funny enough um interested to know why you’re so bullish

On stack stack has obviously been performing very very very very well it’s at alltime highs it’s it’s it’s broken every single Market structure if you’re looking at the charts so just Keen to to hear why you’re so why you’re so bullish and it’s still so undervalued I think

Stacks is a top 20 coins a no-brainer for me look I think um one of the really fascinating things is Right bitcoin1 trillion dollar asset 50% dominance you know that has sort of stayed pretty much unchanged over over time um but Bitcoin has been very very sort of a static like

There’s no big hot ball of money effect I think staxx L2 um post the having right Nakamoto upgrades coming I think we’re going to see a lot of innovation um in Bitcoin defi enabled by stacks and then there’s a bunch of really cool stuff getting built right now on top of

Bitcoin um Bitcoin compatible evm tooling uh we’re seeing Bridges getting built on bitcoin we’re seeing like me um is is coming to bitcoin so all of these things we’ve seen in other ecosystems that have really helped improve liquidity and drive velocity of money are going to start to come to bitcoin

And so for me it’s kind of like a a no-brainer um because Bitcoin still has so much mind share right Bitcoin is still the dominant asset it has 15 years of onchain history that we can look to um and so for me Innovation on top of Bitcoin sort of this really really big

Narrative cycle that is kind of getting ignored in favor of all these shiny new toys and other places which I’m excited about shiny new toys I like shiny new toys but I think building on top of Bitcoin just makes so much sense because there’s such a huge Capital base there’s

So much liquidity if even a couple percent of Bitcoin move into these l2s um that’s just a tremendous tremendous amount of capital you see that anywhere else yeah I think stack is the is the the the predominant probably the only real L2 on bitcoin I know there’s a lot

Of stuff going on but I think I think stack takes that market share where else is your head space last time you came on you were very much on this deeper narrative and it’s done phenomenally phenomenally phenomenally my narrative hasn’t changed in the last four years my narrative my

Investment thesis is very simple we need energy we need computation connectivity and storage we need financial engineering Capital markets to make those things possible at scale and crypto is the way we we do that that’s it it’s very simple so I think deepin is

A big part of that deep in right now has been very focused on the compute and connectivity side I’m Keen to see more energy deep in I have two projects I’m I’m working with there but if anyone’s working on energy deepin I’m your girl

Give me a shout I’m sorry not to use the shout like encour I mean this is what it’s for right um so narrative is just getting started ton of vaporware but also a lot of really exciting traction and there’s just really beautiful recursivity right as the dpin narrative

Starts to take off people start to pay more attention to it leads to more Capital going into it leads to more opportunities with legitimate players leads to these business models actually starting to work at scale so that again like greed is the most beautiful flywheel deepins just starting to see

That sort of ASM totic hockey stick moment so still very excited about that what else so and wait maybe specifically in deepen any specific Nar any specific projects that you see on the market that you like um that that stick out for you yeah I think distributed compute is a

Huge narrative right so I think render which is distributed GPU computation huge narrative um there’s a new project I’m not an investor in it but I wish I was um grass that’s using EXs CPU Cycles on your computer you can Farm it out to do data scraping um for for AI

Consumption anything basically where you’re taking a bunch of distributed resources and aggregating them together using crypto Primitives I think is incredibly exciting that’s what we did with Bitcoin right we built the world’s most powerful supercomputer because Bitcoin mining is highly profitable right the Bitcoin Network facilitated the creation of This Global Network of

Specialized Hardware these as6 consuming a tremendous amount of power securing the world’s you know first digitally native asset Bitcoin so very very very very exciting about any models that are facilitating the buildout of these distributed compute resources um connectivity I think is a huge narrative that’s taking off helium’s doing this in

Real time but there’s a few others like ala which is now rebranded to Hawk um so generally very excited just about distributed computation any area I think where we see high capex requirements right like institutions around the world are are struggling are failing um we’re not in a zero interest rate environment

Anymore so how you going incentivize people to invest in capex right particularly the challenges around private Equity at the moment you give them points you give them tokens like to me that’s it’s a no-brainer I know it sounds ridiculous but I’m very very bullish on this I’m very along this

Thesis and I think I must say I I must say I agree with you and initially when we first saw the distributed compute projects launching in the 2020 2021 cycle I thought there’s no way these things can work and the ones that survived and went to this cycle and I’m

I’m talking things like Renda Akash AOS uh there were whole there there’s Nana on on salana there’s a whole lot of a whole lot of others the ones that actually survived was like wow now we’re actually starting to see the real use case now we’ve got this AI Revolution we

We all of a sudden realize that the most valuable commodity right now is actually computing power we can’t get enough of this computing power and actually we’ve got enough computing power if we can just you know organize a bunch of decentralized computers and it just seems that crypto is like the only way

To do this and so I in this cycle I’ve become ridiculously bullish the distributed compute I want to be but then the other angle on that sorry ran if I may so yes creating these networks is very important but then on top of that think about all of the financial

Engineering that needs to happen right I come from the world of Commodities we were selling Spock Commodities right now we sell spot compute why are we not selling derivatives and other sort of exotic instruments to help people hedge and speculate on compute and connectivity and all of these Primitives

Know they’re the core raw material inputs to this Digital World we’re living in so I’m also excited about all of the incredible and insane Financial engineering that is going to be enabled around all of these resources that perform work of various kinds to enable this this Digital World We all live in

Or want to live in so that’s why crypto I think really really starts to shine what about decentralized file storage so there’s file coin there’s R weave there’s a whole lot of others but that sector hasn’t yet woken up as much as a decentralized compute like so if I look

At decentralized comput people have woken up to decentralized compute render uh uh We’ve mentioned them when I look at decentralized file storage different story so filecoin not many people speak about it although I do know it’s a great protocol and we’re actually investors are we even again you know long-term

File storage also investors in the project what do you think am I missing something or is the market just going to catch up to what to what we’re invested in yeah I think the the question with file storage sort of twofold one is the narrative is not as in intuitive uh

Right I I think The Narrative of hey I’m paying for computation much easier to understand supply and demand I think for file storage a little bit more complex and also I think the Dynamics around payments for file storage are a little bit different than compute because file storage is something that’s needed in

Perpetuity whereas computation is like a it’s I need consumption exactly right so it’s a little bit of a different model I think some of the challenges around long-term storage are just really the Dynamics around offering um storage in perpetuity but pricing it in real time today so how

Do you sort of calculate like the the Network’s resource needs to allow you to do that so I think the narrative and just understanding the Dynamics bit more complex number one number two I also just don’t think that we’re quite at the point in the cycle where storage is seen

As a a bottleneck everyone’s in agreement that definitely compute is a bottleneck and there’s real market demand that are people willing to pay for a high performance compute in particular but for storage right we had a brief period where solid state drives ssds were really hard to find because

People were farming Chia which is amazing to me like I love that crypto markets and new crypto protocols can actually impact the demand for Hardware that’s like I think I think I hear what you’re saying there’s also no shortage of supply of file storage at the moment

And there is a massive shortage of supply of of gpup uh Jord um and and meltam I mean just before you guys go uh any other narratives that you’re completely bullish on so deepen you’re bullish on I think you’ve broken down your thesis very very very well um are

You still that bullish on memes I know you always say the mem is you’re the biggest I’m so bullish on memes any memes that you’re so bullish on I mean for me it’s still we got the frogs we got the dogs we got a few cats

In the mix um but I think like when the doggies start running that’s when things really take off so that’s what I’m always watching is like what are my dogs doing now I got frogs and cats to watch as well but like the thesis is so simple

We got frogs Dogs Kitty okay I like like I like the dragons more than those malum I got to get you into the dragons so fuu fuu no no there’s there’s there’s some other dragons called me a dgen ran do you guys traing coins but look I think

What’s interesting Bitcoin 50% of the market cap of crypto right so two trillion dollar Sky Cino a trillion dollars of that is Bitcoin like 250 billion 280 billion of that is eth right so we’re already what 60 6% allocated mem coins are 1% of the crypto Market they’re teeny tiny I think they’re

Really fun I also think meme coins is what gets my friends into crypto it’s like it’s funny I have a little dog I have dog with a hat I have this little frog like the frog is I think it’s fun crypto at its core is a little bit

Ridiculous and so I think memes are just such an important component of crypto culture that they will always have a place in my heart and in my portfolio Jody yeah so I I I think like um meme coins need to develop to like nextg meme coins because if it’s just a

Ticker uh that gets kind of old uh so I think the the content we’re seeing that a little bit with what what pudgy Penguins did were like there were a lot of nft collections last cycle there were a lot of them that went down 95% and then there’s like a few that have

Actually like done really well and it’s because of like creating things and giving like a community like something to use and talk about and watch so I think uh the meme coins are actually going to do well are on are going to start having like you know weekly movies

Or like Clips or having like you know like more active like memes coming out like meme contests and stuff like that otherwise um yeah I think it’s a little bit like to V1 and I want to see the V2 amazing guys listen I’m completely out of time love you guys madly always love

The alpha that that the two of you bring so thank you so so so much see you guys again soon thank you so much for being here melum be well Jordi be well thank you so much for all the alpha and to you guys in the bant fame I will see you

Guys again on Monday until then trade well my friends and don’t forget to tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap see you Monday