A Bull Market in Gold Stocks, a Recession, and a Mining Ban in Mexico | Jose Vizquerra

When will a bull market in gold stocks start? Will a recession take down gold stocks? Will Mexico ban open pit mining? That and much more in this interview with Jose Vizquerra, an alumnus of the General Management Program at the Wharton School of Business. Jose also holds an MSc in Mineral Exploration from Queens University and a B.Sc in Civil Engineering from UPC Universidad Peruana de Ciencias Aplicadas. He is currently the CEO of O3 Mining, which is a paying advertiser on this channel.

Find out more about Jose: https://o3mining.com/team/jose-vizquerra/

More specifically, Antonio and Jose Vizquerra had a conversation about the mining industry, focusing on its risks and potential for growth. They highlighted a recent disaster in Turkey, emphasizing the dangers associated with mining. The discussion also touched upon the efficiency of mining in Norway and Finland, and its potential for future growth. They also discussed the impact of adhering to standards and protocols in the mining industry, with Jose expressing concerns about the impact of any mishaps on the industry’s reputation.

Furthermore, Jose discussed a global campaign by extremist groups, allegedly from the extreme left, which he claimed was tainting various countries including Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Mexico. He suggested that these groups were hiding their true agenda behind environmental issues. The case of the shutdown of the Cobra Panama Mine was also brought up, suggesting it might have been a similar situation of a ‘watermelon government’, with a green exterior but a red interior agenda.

Later on, Antonio and Jose Vizquerra had a discussion about the current state of mining equities, particularly in Canada. Jose noted the lack of risk appetite for exploration projects and compared the situation to the 2020 situation. Antonio, on the other hand, highlighted that money is available for developers and late stage explorers, and pointed out the higher risks and dilution faced by early stage explorers. Jose suggested that, in order to manage that risk, investing in more advanced projects or those with established resources might be something worth looking into, and noted that there is still money available for specific areas like uranium, and that gold’s time will come as soon as the interest rates have been cut.

Another focus in this dicussion were gold stocks, and specifically M&A in gold stocks. Jose noted the market’s stability and the Canadian government’s efforts to assist critical mineral operators. He also suggested the need for market consolidation, predicting a trend of reducing the number of companies from approximately 1,000 to around 30, which he believed would lead to more effective allocation of funds and execution of plans. He then touched upon the challenges faced by smaller gold companies in raising funds for drilling and the potential benefits of partnering with others.

In that part, Jose Vizquerra also discussed the behavior of major companies buying smaller public gold companies, noting that they typically only buy when prices are up and they’re making money. He suggested that the current market situation could potentially be at or near the bottom, but Antonio expressed concern about the possibility of a prolonged downturn, given the potential for an upcoming recession. Jose had a different idea.

Although they discussed A Bull Market in Gold Stocks, a Recession, and a Mining Ban in Mexico, a one-hour conversation cannot be destiled into a simple headline.

As mentioned above, O3 Mining is a paying advertiser on this channel. This video should be considered an ad, and nothing more. Nothing in this video was intended to be investment advice. It’s a general and impersonal conversation about an extremely risky sector, where failure is the norm. You will lose all of your money if you blindly listen to talking heads on the internet. Do your own research and consult a professional investment advisor before making a decision.

Timestamps
00:00 recap
01:00 what’s going on in Turkey?
08:30 what is happening with mining in South America?
16:00 will Mexico ban open pit mining?
22:43 what are the most dangerous jurisdictions to invest in?
31:55 is this the time to be greedy or fearful of gold stocks?
35:15 will the Canadian government really help the mining sector?
41:40 what will take gold stocks out of the bear market?
46:40 will M&A in gold stocks start soon?

Last year for lithium there was money all over the place uh this year for Uranium all over the place and Mark on next year for gold we can have another interview I can tell you like as soon as interest rates come down give them three four months gold is going to Rally like

Crazy and people are going to come back to Gold it’s the same and and and this gold thing repeats every time there is a recession there is a bull market there has to be consolidation we cannot have 10 10 companies paying for 10 CEOs and

10 CFOs we need to have one and once that happens and instead of having a th companies we have like 30 then the money will be allocated to the 30 companies that can actually execute a plan and that are not going to be sitting down in the chairs without doing anything we we

Need to create wealth and that is by transforming dirt into Prosperity invest in more advanced projects if if it’s a matter of it’s Capital location you have to choose when you have to allocate your Capital all right J um top of mine is unfortunately as of the last few days a

Disaster and that’s not just a figure of speech so a massive Landslide basically is happened at a Turkish mine that’s operated by SSR mining it’s a Canadian company I’ll put up the video for people to see if they still have it I’ll put it up on the screen it’s um it’s bad is

Really only one way to put it I guess especially considering that people are missing lives are endangered and it’s um it’s not looking too good for the whole situation definitely not looking too good for the company uh considering that this is one of ssr’s main assets uh

20-year mine Life 3 million ounces in reserves so it’s a gold mine um it’s um it’s no wonder the stock has taken as big of a hit as it has really especially considering that this is not the first time this m is causing issues over over

Recent past so uh to me that was a reminder that that mining is hard it’s a risky and a dangerous business but um nobody’s here for my opinion so what do you what do you make of all this Jose well first of all I’m I’m really

Sorry for uh for what has happened uh to wsr and to the people that that were around there and that were damaged by that and uh certainly that’s uh fair thing to be said is um you know we don’t want to have any lives being lost in uh

In any industry and uh that certainly remind us that mining is uh is not easy uh also remind us of uh you know if standards were followed and if protocols were were followed and uh the engineering was well done or not but I think that that’s not my job to

Criticize because I don’t know how that was done um I want to assume that they follow the right protocols and sometimes unfortunately you know these casualities happens and um you know let’s let’s hope that uh there was no human mistakes and that it was uh really something unfortunate yeah it’s um the obviously

Nothing to disagree with there I have no idea if it was or it wasn’t a human mistake we’ve seen them make a mistake before too though so that that’s one thing do you think this whole thing hurts the global mining industry and then maybe even the the appetite for for

Investment in our space and that stuff like that generally I mean that’s why mining maybe doesn’t have too good of a name well mining is Complicated by by its nature I mean um we have had um underground m for plenty of years and uh you know it’s

Not not an easy job uh certainly and um and you know unfortunately we have gained um a reputation not by great things although a lot of great things has been done but we don’t talk about them we don’t talk about the largest flotation plant being

Built in uh in through by by by by the Americans um in um by Freeport and uh we don’t talk about the you know the Turning from sewage to clean water in aripa in Peru by by Freeport Aventura um we don’t talk about being the largest underground mine almost like

An open pit but of course when there is a casuality we’re all talking about it uh and I guess that is human nature uh that why a lot of people are mentally sick because we keep thinking about the bad things that are happening instead of you know the good things that has been

Happening to us day and day every single day and that is that is a problem that we have as a as a society in a sense um I’m not I’m not dismissing what happened I’m just saying that you know there are so many things to be said about mining

To set about the the well the wealth that has been created the conversion from dirt to Prosperity that has been happening in mining and we don’t put it into context uh at all yeah well I didn’t come here for life lessons but now you’re helping me sort

Of don’t don’t focus on the negative focus on the positive it’s a good point because we do talk about when there’s life lives lost we do talk about it a lot we don’t really necessarily talk about the lives that are saved and the uh I watched the very good speech by uh

Peter monk from maybe 10 years ago or something like that where he was talking about mining really not only bringing prosperity to Regions but often times bringing um sort of a will to live if you will you know it brings meaning to the people’s lives to have something

Else to do that was that was a good speech that’s a it’s a good point but then at the same time it’s interesting to me because it’s exactly stuff like this that environmental groups get hung up on and and maybe um I mean do you really expect anything else right and um

Well I mean the the reality is that I mean you know I I I I think we have spoken about this before um as a public traded company we H we are in a sense blessed by the fact that anyone can see who are our investors at least the major ones you

Can immediately go and see oh okay Franklin templon is has invested in your company or van has invested in your company or Risco has an investment in your company but the downside on the environmental groups is that we don’t even know who are their investors and and and why are they

Really claiming uh for all these environmental uh impacts um and in MO in most cases and and and and I don’t want to get into a rabbit hole but you know there is a narrative that it is a campaign by extremist groups from from the extreme left that are you know

Themselves in green when they’re really very red so and that is a narrative that has been winning all over the world um star in in Iran uh so you have Iran and you have uh turning around and you go into Syria and you go south to Latin

America and then you have Venezuela and then you turn a little bit more to a north and you have narwa and then you go a little bit more than you have now Mexico being tainted yeah so you know it’s really interesting how this has this operative has been working

Uh when we look into all the manifestations happening in Bolivia uh they are being sponsored by Iran and and and and then the the spectrum of what we’re talking about is it’s much more complicated than if we’re really talking about environment and again I’m not dismissing what happened

In turkey and has been s and I’m I’m I’m really sorry for what happened but when we talk about environmental groups I mean it’s h it’s it’s there is a hidden agenda there that I have not been able to completely unrevealed but I I am convinced that there is a an extremist

Narrative behind it yeah it’s the the watermelon governments and watermelon um you know corporations all over again they sort of green on the outside red on the inside as you said um and that’s actually reminding me of what’s been happening there’s been a lot of um talk around that um around that potentially

Being the same type of issue you know a watermelon issue if you will because it’s now been what two months after the mine shut down the cobre Panama mine and it’s not only a significant mine for for for squantum the company that owns and operates the asset but it’s also

Significant for for the entire country of of Panama given that this mine alone accounts for L more than 5% of the country’s GDP actually I looked it up and almost 1% of the country’s population worked directly at that mine and it’s also a um obviously a globally significant asset to The Copper Market

To and yet the issue has not yet been resolved and um Panama is not close to elections by as you might know and and I believe in three months or so so it’ll make sense it if um yeah I don’t know it would make sense

To me if there’s a regime change and if if that watermelon government moves away but what do you what do you make of this um this whole thing that’s kept on happening since we last spoke I I I guess that shows us that in order to be

A populist you don’t really need to be from the extreme left or Center uh you know you can be of the right as well and and it’s not good um I I I know very little about the government of of Panama um but I would have not considered that government uh a

Government that was leaning towards the left um yeah but C this move particularly with K Panama is a populist movement um a th% and what has done with Panama is it has damaged Panama in a very big way I mean the rule of law has been destroyed now so it does not affect

And that this part that people don’t don’t don’t quite understand this this is not a matter of an environmental thing if there is an environmental sanction that has to be put that that goes to the ministry of Minds the ministry of environment the ministry of law labor whatever you want to call it

When you do something like what they have done they have broke the rule of law that means that now everyone that has a business in Panama should be very worried because at any moment the government may decide hey you have Tech sales sorry my friend but now that’s us

Or hey you have cattle too bad for you or you have now your beautiful hotels in front of the ocean and Sal now it’s mine um I think the precedent that this go government has set in Panama it’s it’s very very bad and I think that you know

People knows that and this is not again this particular issue is not a mining issue uh there is a there is a narrative behind that there is other other interests being built and created there um I’m not from Panama I don’t know what what what extra things this guy was

Looking for but if it was money that was already agreed they were going to pay more taxes so now it’s not money and uh and environmentally so far I think they were following the uh the best protocols that that could have been followed uh and they were you know giv

Good jobs and people were having Better Lives because of that yeah and uh and Panama was attracting a lot of uh mining companies to do exploration which now they probably are flying out totally yeah absolutely it’s um what I I it was sort of a word salad as to what I said

Back there but what my thought was behind is sort of that we don’t even have a left left or leftist government in Panama right now and this is happening what if elections come and the government starts leaning more towards left is first Quantum completely done

For I well I mean that’s why there is international law um and uh you know as long as that list is there there is there is a hope but you know if the the issue we’re facing right now in Latin America and it’s unfortunate that the United States

Uh particularly United States and Canada is not uh taking you know of attention is that we are having now a lot of Narco States being built uh starting with Bolivia with a Morales uh now with his puppet in power but it’s managed by Morales and financed by

Iran uh following through that we had the same thing in Peru with Pedro Castillo thanks God he sh himself by himself uh essentially trying to do Aura and he went to jail because he did Aura and he was sent to jail because that was the law was was ordering but then you go

Into Colombia again on into the idea of the non-democracy and and the Narco States and the autocracy and then you keep going to Ecuador where the president was fired called for new elections well the the the extreme left of Korea didn’t win but they were extremely close and they are

Still making a lot of revolutions there and then you go into Venezuela and then as as you keep going north now you are seeing this in Nicaragua and then Panama and then you start thinking and CUA of course it’s is is the intellectual no intellectual knowledge of all these

Narrative I mean the socialism of the of of of the 21st Century it’s not uh something that just happened today I mean they started since grou sa Pao 20 30 years ago and uh and and was supported by the kishners initially uh that that stayed in power for a long

Time and managed I mean Argentina managed to to stay alive because it’s such a rich country I mean let’s not forget Argentina was the fifth largest power in the 1950s so you know this this an Democratic regimes are are gaining a lot of power in Latin America

And in a sense if if it’s not reviewed seen uh at least um if we don’t have someone bigger like like can or or the states essentially saying guys I mean you can choose whomever you want as long as you know it’s democratic but the thing is that we’re moving to a

Place where we might not control that and and it’s being paid by Iran like we we keep forgetting about that part like all what happened in the Middle East it’s not a conse it’s it’s it’s it’s not minimal and and this is not Israel this is Iran and Syria and jordane and Egypt

I mean there is a very big thing there that is pushing to Latin America it’s pushing to Europe and uh you know I I don’t want to sound makus but it’s it’s there we don’t want to see it fine but it’s it’s there or what is happening in

Latin America is being supported by Iran yeah kind of like Gang Green you know it starts at the pinky and then you might end up losing an arm um so and you say that it’s moving North actually I don’t know if this is the same issue but there

Is something that happened this week that caught my attention even more north of Panama and that’s Mexico Mexico’s president has just proposed osed a a few changes to the country’s Constitution that was what the headlines were but it’s much worse than just that because one one of them includes an outright ban

On on open pit mining mainly on the grounds of it using too much water for you know if people are following the avocado mafia they won’t that won’t come as a surprise sure there is know mining uses a lot of water there really is a

Water issue in Mexico and so on and so forth but that still doesn’t change the fact that the Mexican economy is is heavily dependent on mining it and open pit mining in particular I believe the biggest mining in the country the biggest mines in the country are open

Pit so I mean what do you think is this is this ban going to pass through are we going to be seeing more of more of this political Behavior around around the northern part of the world how do you look at this anything that will bring prosperity to the extreme

Uh left narrative let let’s call it for a second is it will be in danger and the reason why is because the only way how the Narco states can exist is without having Prosperity because then you depend on the Narco States and that is AMU that is Lopez oor or Lopez orador

Represents the anti- system Lopez obor represents the anti-democracy Lopez orador represents the Naros and the Naros States and uh and he will use a narrative of the environment sure and he will use a Nar of the very big whites and the Browns and the very big rich and

The poor and the guys that do the right things and the poor that don’t do anything and the guys that has education and the ones that don’t have education it’s known it’s everywhere it it has been like this in Venezuela happened like that in Cuba now they’re

Pushing it to to Mexico the only sort of Quasi blessing that Mexico has is just being very close from the United States so I I don’t think people will will be so easily be easily convinced however I mean what amlo did and the changes that he did in Constitution allows him to

Start giving money and when people gets money gets excited and uh they fall into a trap of this guy is um giving me free money and there is no free lunch there’s no free lunch and and and again Lopez orador represents part of this socialism of the 21st Century

Lopez orador together with Ortega it was the kishners it was EV Morales Rafael Cora all these guys they were the the very big buddies so it’s not a coincidence I mean this this thing of of of the open pin mining this is not mining this is politics this is

Geopolitical in hardcore because this is the best way that Iran and their friends of Cuba and Venezuela with which is now running out of money so at the end the only one that that is left is Iran and in somewhat maybe Russia but I don’t have

Any any certainty of that so I rather leave Russia out of the equation are penetrating into a states trying to break it simple well as you said in in Panama though it’s the same it’s not on environmental ground or on mining grounds or whatever it’s a political

Thing well yet the m is shut off a first Quantum is suffering because of that are we going to be seeing some of that Mexico too like is that an actual possibility or because of its proximity to the us we we wouldn’t I I I hope we

Don’t uh due to the proximity to to the US if if it ever happens it it will be reversed uh I don’t know if International courts international law will allow that to happen uh to be seen but it it is very clear to me that all this is a is a geopolitical narrative

That it is uh working in that regard and and all what they are trying to do is is to break democracy and bring the Narco States and and and and and we are just you know trying to cover our eyes saying like well I don’t see that like know that’s environmental that’s Mexico

That’s that’s just Amo protecting the the environment that’s not true Amo doesn’t protect the environment amblo doesn’t protect the poor Amo doesn’t care about anything by himself um like I don’t know if someone has been checking his accounts but I’m sure now there are millions of millions of millions of dollars being collected

Already by all the Aral that are paying him that’s a statement um but what so what someone has to do that I I I I I I I don’t have ground to say that uh right I I just have the impression but and what do I do with all

That as an investor when it comes down to South America because it there’s a a bunch of cheap companies out there almost too many to start counting but are they undervalued or are they cheap for a reason well I think as an investor you would

Look it on first of all on a country by country basis and then you know who has more access to or closer to democracy whomever has less of a taint of uh of of being close to Narco state will get a higher price and that would be the

Reason for people investing in places like the US and Canada at the end I mean why why are investors coming back to the states in mind mining was not that big in the US now everyone goes to the US doesn’t matter if they’re paying $1,000 per meter in Nevada they still prefer the

US so it’s high risk High reward you you like if you want to compare Latin America then then we have to see what what is the comparison in a place in Africa um it it is what it is or or or or a place in the Middle East would you

Go to pistan why not uh why why would you go to Venezuela same thing would you go to Iran then uh you know places like Peru yeah it it is unstable but we had the same Constitution since 1992 and whomever you know we we had presidents from the left but they were

Not able to destroy the country because the Constitution didn’t allow them to do it but if that Constitution is broken the country is dead and that’s what happened in Venezuela that’s what has been trying to happen in in in Mexico that happened in Nicaragua that happened

In Bolivia at the moment you change the rule of the game to your favor where the institutions are not impartial country is gone wh which and if you can get specific that also be appreciated but which countries do you think in in South America are more exposed to that risk than

Others Bolivia Venezuela particularly okay well ifia challeng yeah I think colia will uh will will will survive but this has this if something should have taught us as as Latin Americans and I was born in Peru so I guess I can I I I although I live in Canada but should told us

That we as business Community need to be involved in politics we cannot be you know shutting the door because it will like us it’s it’s um sort of the the Grim view if you will that you have on South America is interesting to me because we’re seeing a lot of capital is Flowing

There I mean the londin oftentimes considered the smartest guys in the room they’re operating in Argentina Chile uh in the viconia district and so it it seems like the mineral endowment there is enough for them to want to deal with the politics so how do you see those regions

And and their Investments listen if you look at things in the long term uh probably is the right investment again it’s high risk High reward you want to make uh 100% yearly and then suddenly one year you will not see anything yeah that’s that’s an option or or a risk of

Of nothing but I mean if you if you trust where you are investing uh the lines did great in in Ecuador and uh and they bet for it and they they Ace it they they they they did so well and uh they tried again in Guatemala and they

Did it so well I mean so maybe they have a a secret Source uh and and and and and and and maybe that’s it’s it’s it’s an expertise for sure it’s an expertise I mean Chile Chile see see see like the reason why Chile was able to to survive

Is because they had a referendum so whatever was left from the institutions that the extreme uh left with boric wanted to destroy they called for a for for for a referendum and uh they they they they changing Constitution didn’t win but they tried they tried to do

Exactly what they did in in in in Cuba and exactly what they did in Venezuela and what they did in Bolivia they changed the Constitutions to a point that it appears like a democracy but they’re managing everything you make a very good point when you say you know over the long term

It’s probably a smart investment and when when we talk about the londin and long term we’re not talking 3 to five years we’re talking 20 Next Generation type of thing and that’s where the difference is between um me and billionaires besides them having a billion dollars more than I do uh is is

You know their time frame uh because they can afford to be there for 20 or 50 years something that so a very good point um what how how do you how do other because you you talk to um you talk to Major and big capital deployers in the

Space much more than I do how how’s how’s the rest of them dealing I mean you’re close to the Cisco guys obviously um how how do big Capital deployers look at all that and what around the you know the growing red tape around the globe and all the other issues because where

I’m coming from with this is because m&a has again been slow for for the last couple of months so yeah talk to me about how big capital is being deployed the success of our Founders at oiso was you know kind of going back to their Roots they started doing

Exploration in Africa and the three of them uh Sean Russen John binski and Bob wz decided to go back to Canada to their own country and that’s when Canadian malartic was in quote unquote rediscovered drilled and put into production and that’s where their their Fortune was made and subsequent to that

Keep pushing for the same thing and then uh winfall was discovered and uh then the uh BC asset Mar was was rediscovered in a sense and now is one of the the largest deposits and Maran has been now part of that discussion and uh and

Garrison has been part of that I mean if something I can say about these three gentlemen uh is the fact that they have been Stellar on identifying Assets in safe jurisdictions that maybe are not in production today but will be in production in the next five or 10 years

And then a lot of money will be made in a safe jurisdiction in a jurisdiction where the rule of law is present where changes are not Dramatical and where there is support for an industry that has built so much um has brought so much wealth and and there is

No um a shame of it you know sometimes in Latin America it almost feels that you know we talk about mining we feel we’re doing something wrong but I mean Canada is one of the largest mining countries in the world world and people feel proud about it and the same about

The states I mean the wealth of these two countries was built around it I mean we just saw the Super Bowl recently and uh we talk about the 49ers only as the 49ers that was the belt of the 49ers was 1849 when the rush of cold happened in

San Francisco and where most of the buildings and the infrastructure was built with gold with mining with Noah Shameless like we were talking about before about the unfortunate situation in Turkey well let’s talk about the positive side of things a lot of infrastructure has been built with mining a lot of wealth has

Been brought through mining a lot of education has been brought through mining so I mean there is H plenty of good things that has been uh brought uh with mining not only gold copper silver lead I mean in in our history talking about Mexico or Peru the Incas and St us

Knew about mining through those times and no one was telling them don’t do that so you know it’s just a matter of how how responsible we’re going to be doing it and and how much we’re going to be dragged by this Narrative of don’t do anything you know we don’t need more oh

You don’t need more but how are you making your C sorry uh you’re using a cell phone and that’s an iPhone and by the way here is more than 101 elements that has been mind sorry brother but I mean that is reality so if if you’re

Going to tell me that you’re going we’re going to be complaining about mining let’s start being very reasonable yeah it’s we should be um we should be proud and and some people are proud but that doesn’t necessarily translate into appetite for investments in in the mining space you know you see

The generalist investors in Canada say the Canadian Pension funds widely discussed these days too um do do you think they will eventually be able to see through these these risks and propaganda people are ready to deploy money in debt H not in equity how come less

Risk I’ll give you a billion dollars in debt pay me my interest rates but don’t don’t make me put $300 million there only as Equity yeah I need I need to show money I need to give dividends to my shareholders I’ll charge a 15% I’ll

Pay 5% or 6% whatever is the uh and then I will distribute some I get everyone happy so that means that projects that are more advanced closer to debt or or closer to beam production so they can be subject to debt will do fine the issue is for the people that are

Doing exploration the people that don’t have resources that those are the companies that are going to suffer the most because there is no appetite for risk h and risk money only happens when there is an overflow of money which has not happened if we think about covid people

Get out of money during covid and got in cash right away and said let’s wait suddenly people called Co away money went back into the tech and you see what happened with the seven big ones the seven we big ones flew like a rocket back into the same levels as today then

We have been facing the increasing interest rates again people sell keep the cash now waiting for Investments but not not not not into oh let’s see what’s going to happen and you can compare this to any of the R&D from uh from technology how much money is put

Right now into R&D you want to compare exploration compared to how much money is put in R&D nothing it’s not mining it’s it’s risk money has not been deployed yeah that’s a it’s a a very good point because a a friend of mine Kai Hoffman of Sor financially he gave a

Very good presentation at the Vancouver resource conference saying that uh we have raised a bunch of money last year so there is money for mining that’s it’s not when people say oh there’s no money in mining there is money in mining but most money went to um they were tracking

Specifically developers and late late stage explorers right and I and I suppose you could make the argument that this means be greedy when others are fearful of the of the early stage explorers they are fearful you be greedy on them and and Discovery ples and stuff like that but then again their stocks

Are at 52 weeks low and and because of that their cost of capital is through the roof and the dilution risk is higher than ever which it already typically is High um so the point here is that there is a bottleneck for early stage explorers here and I’m you know I’m kind

Of conflicted I feel like they they are cheap sure but again the risks are there and you stack that on top of the GE geographical risk that we just talked about and so the question is kind of like how do I deal with that verification that that that is present

And that there is no capital in the early stage explorers investing more advanced projects if if it’s a matter of it’s Capital location you have to choose when you have to allocate your capital in my view if I have $50,000 I would rather put that money into companies that has already a

Resource and unless he a slam dunk and you know one of these guys uh there is this group out of uh I think the Yukon that they had like 100 meters or 150 meters of a gram yeah go and invest there I mean that’s certainly something

That will pan out so that that sh that shows you snowline I think it’s called that shows you that it’s not there is no money for anyone the money will go to only very particular people that are extremely good in what they do MH we we have

Raised $100 million with our group we raised $40 million for Silver Mountain resources that it’s a mine that will be in production by the end of December in Peru we have raised another $50 million in uh in in or or 60 even in um in in in know3 mining and another couple

Million dollars for electric elements so I mean saying that there is no money um I I I I I don’t think it’s totally or 100% right I mean there is way less money and only for very few groups and certainly there’s a lot of money for for

Critical elements like if you ask about anyone about uranium stocks I mean they are everyone wants to invest there now how good they’re going to be how for how long they’re going to last I don’t know but last year for lithium there was money all over the place uh this year

For Uranium all over the place and Mark this on next year for gold we can have another interview I can tell you like as as soon as interest rates come down give them three four months gold is going to Rally like crazy and people are going to come back to Gold you mentioning

Critical minerals and that’s that’s a very interesting point because I was just thinking what is what is the role of the government in here though in in in Canada specifically and I mean we see them supporting just the other day I read an article and I I’ll quote

Something out of here uh if you don’t mind but Canada says that that the um quote Canada plans to boost its energy security by flashing the time it takes to develop new critical mineral mines by nearly a decade with improved permitting processes uh the the energy Minister said Jonathan Wilkinson his name I

Believe um unquote and so for for Ottawa specifically that includes lithium graphite nickel Cobalt copper and so on and so forth and rare Earths of course um and often times you know putting the emphasis on on China’s role in the supply of um in the supply chain of rare

Earths but that’s already you know kind of a done deal I mean announcing that they’ll be thinking this is not a this is not an article that says oh they already cutting the times or something they like oh we’ll start thinking about how to potentially fix the issue of

Extensively long permitting periods 10 years ago um uh 10 years in the future I mean but that might have helped if they did it in the past but they’re only now waking up to that fact when it’s when it’s again a done deal trying to fix what’s broken instead of prevent the the

Break in the first place um so again I’m talking too much but I’m I maybe maybe also just being too much of an Internet head angry at the government for no reason um and why I’m bringing this up is because it’s reminding me of of the the permitting risks and the permitting

Time and that time in the mining space in the development space is money because you have to keep the company alive and you have to keep developing and that costs you in in dilution and so I suppose the question here would be do you ever see the government of of Canada

Or the US for that matter actually working alongside explorers and developers rather than against them let’s hope so uh at the end they should and uh will be a smart thing to do and I don’t think they are too late uh they could have been earlier but it’s

Not too late I mean when did China start investing in copper mines in Latin America 20 years ago 20 I mean one of the largest uh copper mine in in Peru is Chinese and uh and if you start looking into all these uh smaller minor groups

In in in Peru are our our Chinese money and and and that goes back to what we were talking before at the very beginning of our conversation I don’t think this is a matter of if you are right from the right or from the left if you’re are capitalist or socialist this

Has to do if you believe in democracy or not if you believe in autocracy or not if if you believe in in the respect of life in general yes or no and China doesn’t doesn’t fit into that idea capitalist yes but respect of democracy respect of the rules respect of people

Respect of the rights zero and where are they in in in as part of that on a geopolitical standpoint of view together with Iran and together with uh with Nicaragua and together with um with Jordan and Syria I mean it’s a it’s a it’s it’s it’s it’s in it’s it’s it’s

Immediate where where you see the world and with whom they team up the next part will be okay who has nuclear power and then you go back to the same thing China Iran North Korea Russia four with nuclear Powers who do you have on the other side the us and

Is now you see all the showing so I guess I see the issue but what is the what’s the solution might be more of an interesting um discussion from a from an investment perspective because Canada is surely trying some kind of a solution by keeping the

Chinese out of there but I means is that doing more good than is doing bad I I don’t know what do you think Canada needs to keep uh accelerating all the permitting process and allow allow them to be uh independent from from those sources Canada has the luxury of having

Every single metal that you can imagine in the Earth from nickel to Cobalt to silver to gold from oil to gas to whatever you want to name it uh now it really depends on us as as as as as Canadians and and I include myself now

That I live here and I I have a passport to defend this country from this Narrative of don’t do anything because not doing anything will not solve anything we we need to create wealth and that is by transforming dirt into Prosperity that’s one way to put it transforming dirt into prosperity

Um it’s it’s true though and it’s not true though it’s true though but um that’s a you know what I like seeing that kind of Articles uh because it it shows you that there is hope but they’re talking about critical medals specifically that’s a an a list an exhaustive list that they created

Themselves uh when I say they I mean the government in this case let them let them talk about something at least it’s mining it’s fine let’s talk about critical medals for now and you know as soon as that happens it will blow the rest of

It well let’s not get stuck into it if if they are moving critical medals great let’s let’s start by something for the past 10 years we have not been pushing for anything pushing for critical medals is a very big Advance especially considering the the

The the limited uh mind of uh of of of of these uh of these government well why I bring this up is because I’m I’m sort of approaching this from the perspective of a bag holder if you will because I’m thinking about what’s happening with gold where it

Keeps trading in this $100 range and it has been really If you eliminate the blips for the last year somewhat stayed in that range between 1950 and 2050 um it is up quite a lot bottoming out at around 1650 about a year and a half ago but at the same time most

Companies um companies in my portfolio but also just most companies I I interview you see their stocks trading at sort of this 52e low so if the Pension funds and generalist investors are are not yet there and don’t have that appetite to come in quotequote save the space and the Canadian government is

Focused on giving money and assistance to critical mineral operators only who is and what who or what will take us out of the bare Market in in in Gold equities and and just pressure equities m& it’s going to be M there there has to be consolidation uh we cannot have 10 10

Companies paying for 10 CEOs and 10 CFOs we need to have one uh that will advance things and once that happens and instead of having a thousand companies we have like 30 then the money will be allocated to the 30 companies that can actually execute a plan and that are not going to

Be sitting down in the shares without doing anything that’s quite aggressive quite quite an aggressive m& Outlook I mean from a th000 which is what the listed issuers are um what from a th000 to to 30 you see yeah it has to be what kicks this off like what happens what has to

Happen we we we need the first company to start doing the rolling and you will see that there is a lot of them that will be W to want to be part of that one because that one is the only one that will start going up because the only one

Transacting the only one doing something MH but what’s the worst that can happen to you as a shareholder is that your money is stuck in a company that doesn’t do anything and and you cannot even take it out it’s like guys you you you’re only paying salaries are you kidding

Me yeah but but it’s someone has to Blink first we do wor who who blinks when how does it happen there’s a bunch of things that like I’m sure it will happen eventually but when how no no it will start this year uh and and already started we we we we

We have been part of that with Moneta and ihawk and it will not stop there we will continue aggressively looking for other assets and putting as many resources as possible there this is this is a matter of just being bigger bigger is better when you’re a $500 million

Company you can raise $50 million you have diluted your sharehold re in 10% and you can actually execute a plan when you’re a million dollars or $3 million Company If You Raise 10% it’s $300,000 you cannot put more than a thousand meters in the ground of drilling simple yeah and and nobody

Cares and now that’s why we’re seeing these sort of prospector type of deals where that’s something El wanted to ask you about where you small if these $3 million companies when they raise a million dollars tell me how much money how much money the the the the executives are putting into the ground

It’s true how many companies have like us 5% owned by the CEO one two three yeah what do you think of these prospector type of deals where it’s small companies they don’t have money to drill their own asset so they bring in that’s a great model that’s a

Different model that’s a model we stake we do a little bit of work and then we sell properties that’s fine that that’s the Prospectors model but the other one is I want to be uh an explorationist but you don’t want to put money but you want them to give you

Money and you’re still three or $ million and you’re not getting the permits and you’re not drilling but you keep charging a salary I mean that’s bad corporate governance yeah that’s exactly what I mean is that not specifically the Prospectors who have been doing this for a long time but the exploration

Companies who have sort of been pushed into this prospector model where they just don’t have money they they are not able to raise money so they dilute on the asset level instead of duding on the on the equity level that’s an alternative or or again you look for

Someone that can consolidate you and you look for five of them and do that like we did that in 2015 in the bottom of the market with Oban we were a $10 million company we did a merger of five it was six at some point we we lost one and we

Became a $100 million company and from there osis was formed and now it’s a billion dollars so the model of being bigger works and bigger is better is there and then you call the attention of the majors then then then you are really working into something you say that it’s gonna start

This year and that’s very interesting to me because I and I I know you’re not a macro expert um so maybe even more helpful to get your thoughts on this because people who do follow macro too closely some so always actually when are when are the US elections right

Yeah when is that next year is this year actually uhhuh so when when are the interest rates start coming down well I don’t know if they don’t come down the Democrats lose the elections they have to come okay and if it comes down from the moment comes the

First pick down count three months gold is up and people comes back again into the industry that’s a simple game plan if Biden wins we’re going to see a rocket going up in critical medals why how come because he has been promoting that forever and if Trump wins we’ll see gold rallying like

Crazy because you have to look for safety oh okay but then irrespective of the economy I mean it’s if there’s a recession or something among those lines uh you still think that the election matters most well uh I think recession will recession will need to reactivate the economy and you only reactivate the

Economy by allowing people to have more debt and can be making Investments by doing that you need to bring down the interest rates the moment you bring down the interest rates people are going to start spending more then people are going to have more jobs and people are

Going to start raising the thing and then we we get back into a postco CO idea mhm yeah so so so 2024 has to be a year of a transformational year of something happening I don’t know it’s as aggressive as I’m saying but something will happen for sure H and then that

Something is that em em& that you talked about okay that will happen concurrently because no no no one has you you you will you would never see a major company buying in the downside it’s just too much work for them they only buy when they get strong when they feel strong

And they only feel strong when the prices are up and they’re making money and they see the cash coming in their share price going up and they believe that it’s cheaper to buy companies then they have always done the same thing uh gold courp at the time when they bought

Serono out of andan gold I think was cold for $3.7 billion was at the peak of gold um anniko bought dour at the peak uh they have never bought at the bottom never Unfortunately they they should have they would have made way more money but they they have than

That well so if they’re buying at the top and they’re not buying right now you’d almost think that right now we should be at the bottom I I think we’re at the bottom I don’t know how bottom but we are the bottom yeah the bottom sometimes keeps

Bottoming for two I don’t know it’s rock bottom but we’re at the bot yeah good point you do you ever look at some any type of deals in um in Europe because Europe is is stable jurisdiction to challenge more challenged than Canada but we’re starting to see a lot of

Movement now in uh in Spain uh which we have not seen it before and uh that’s very interesting and we see some deals now punning out in Germany and it’s no surprise because suddenly when things gets very bad people REM reminds that hey there was mining and we can actually

Do something out of this and we can you know find Prosperity we remember what happened in the early 1900s and in the latees 1800s and man life is is as cyclical as you can ask for we still have summer we still have winter we still have spring and we have Autumn and

That happens in economy and that happens in the life of people and that happens in the wealth of people as well you know if you don’t plant you would not collect if uh it’s just life it’s the same and and and this gold thing repeats every time there is a

Recession there is a bull market every single time happened in the 70s in the 80s in the 90s 2000 2008 2014 uh or or or 10 and then 2020 with with with the um with with the pandemic with with the pandemia and and if we review if you if

We review the um the the Spanish um pandemic was no different from the pandemic will sure hope you’re right because I read a read an article on thanks fors last week I believe was it that I read an article on mining.com that said something in the lines that if we

Replace some of the animal products with alternative protein uh that could free up a bunch of uh a bunch of a bunch of land for for windmills and stuff like that to generate renewable energy um stuff like that always scares me um so hope you’re right and I hope it moves

Towards a better place when I say Europe though I was mostly talking about sort of the Nordic countries that um opening up and that’s where really there is little attention because in in Norway for example specifically there’s I believe two or three listed mining related companies um do you think that’s

Forever going to stay that way or are we going to see a a boom up there as well um I know very little about the uh the Nordic places um I I I do know a little bit more about Finland uh there was a gold rush in Finland in the 1800s

Um the there has been plenty of discoveries there and uh and now ago is there with one of the most uh I would say Noble Minds uh in in the sense that it has all the technology that that you can imagine and I will not

Be surprised if we will see more and and I think there is a bunch of Canadian companies doing exploration in uh in Finland so I I would not be surprised that that could happen uh more in Sweden or Norway or Denmark um certainly from my geological setting there is no reason to believe

Why there is no gold there or or copper in fact one of the most uh I don’t know if it’s Poland but it’s one in one of those I think was one of the Nordic places but it was one of the most efficient copper mines out there maybe

I’m confusing with one of the Eastern Europeans but um I I I think there’s a chance uh all all all how it transformed is coast and in the Norwegian uh in the in in the you know European Nordic uh countries the cost is is higher because

The cost of living is higher yeah so there there you have to you know wait uh what what would what do you prefer