Sweden’s role and position in hydrogen infrastructure in the Nordics

Sweden’s role and position in hydrogen infrastructure in the Nordics

decided among you who will
start yeah I think it will be me yeah
okay the floor is
yours thank
you and does everybody see the
presentation
now yeah
great okay so I’m going to talk a bit
about my Ono study I’m a PhD student at
Chalmer and this is uh my first one so
it’s about hydrogen on the west
coast and why are we interested in the
west coast well we do have a couple of
Industries in gurg singson and
Lil they are refineries in gurg and Lil
and we have a chemical cluster in stund
and for all these industries hydrogen is
an
important um fuel or feed stock for the
processes and today it’s mostly produced
through natural gas or as a byproduct
from the processes within the
industries so we wanted to see what’s
happen is going to happen to the system
if we produce the hydrogen through
electrolysis
instead which would of course increase
the electricity amount in the nodes so
how it is currently in the region the
vestan region we have an annual
electricity demand of 18 ter hours in
gburg we have approximately 4.3 tatt
hours per year sing 1.6 and Lil 0.6 ter
hours per year
approximately and what we can expect for
the future is the transportation sector
that needs electricity in guthenberg we
have a port that could
be a smaller electricity demand but it
could also be a huge electricity demand
depending on how much of the fuel for
the shipping sector that the port is
aiming at supplying we also have new
establishment for instance the battery
Factory uh which is also going to be
approximately 2.2 ter hours per uh and
then we also have the connection to the
heating sector where electricity can be
used for
heating so these industries are on top
of this and we can expect somewhere from
7 to 20 ter hours per
year uh and that the is if we produce
the hydrogen from
electrolysis so not only did we want to
see what happens in the individual nodes
but also how they may collaborate and
these industries is the main focus then
of my study and see how it affects when
we add this demand so the research
questions in the study is how does
hydrogen demand from Industries impact
Municipal Energy Systems when produced
through
electrolysis how could Regional
collaboration in trading hyen through a
pipeline between three industry intense
nodes impact Energy System
configurations and does the role of
sector coupling depend on whether the
demand for hydrogen is met locally or
through Regional collaboration in the
form of a
pipeline so if we look a bit closer on
these three areas they differ in more
than population size and annual
electricity demand today they also have
different availability of import Capac
City from the re Regional grid and I
should mention that this is the
approximations for the future
availability of uh grid uh import from
the grid they also have a different
number of ongoing uh offshore Wind Farm
projects so they are represented here in
the figure so outside gothamberg we had
one smaller and one larger that was a
bit overlapping uh while in St Sun we
have one offshore Wind Farm project
going on and outside L we have
approximately three along the coast so
we have some availability of uh
electricity from that we also have solar
PV Park availability that’s based on
available land area and rooftop solar P
availability that is dependent on the
number of people living in the cities
and uh yeah in extension the amount of
buildings okay yeah just one question
that popped up here in the chat what
year are these numbers
for what year yeah this yeah this is uh
appr approximately or well the plans are
to for the grid expection to 2035 I
think but we model a future year around
2050 so this is like what we know that
we’re going to get but then of course
it’s a bit of a gap between what we know
we’re going to get and this year that we
model
that the answer and the projects are
ongoing and none of them are built today
when it comes to wind farms for instance
yeah I I hope that clarifies things for
for the the person asked the question
here yeah please good question it’s an
important factor what year we model and
want to investigate of course so and
that’s the same with the hydrog and
demand for instance that’s also a
maximum scenario when the industries
have transitioned to not emit carbon
emissions for instance
so this is not today but a future goal
version of when the system is not
allowed to emit carbon emissions or
carbon
dioxide and the hydrogen demand is based
on a report from Rice uh where they ask
different Industries about what they
thought was going to be their expected
demand and they gave a minimum and a
maximum and this stud is based on the
maximum
scenario um but then again we also this
does not include all Industries and all
applications so we still have the
transportation sector outside of this
demand for
instance lastly we have different
availability or possibility to invest in
line Rock Caverns so these are the
underground large storages for hydrogen
uh where we don’t allow it in gburg but
we do allow it in stenos and Lisi due
to um well the characteristics from what
we’ve heard about the ground and so
on from these different characteristics
we have made four cases based on the
available offshore wind from outside
gurg so guthenberg is the node that is
most congested we have a lot of
electricity demand and not a lot of
either grid even if it’s the larger of
the fre nodes it’s compared to like the
demands it’s not uh covering for all of
it so we have two different Wind Farm
sizes outside gothamberg the smaller one
is 280 megawatt and the larger one is
,000 megawatts and then we compare when
we allow for investments in a pipeline
and when we don’t and to be clear that
we allow for invest investments in a
pipeline we don’t force the model to
take a decision to invest in a pipeline
but it’s just a
possibility then we go to our model so
we gave it both electricity demands
Heating and hydrogen demands for each
three of the not notes then we also add
local wind and solar profiles as well as
electricity price profiles for
se3 we give the model technoeconomic
data for different Technologies to
produce electricity Heating and hydrogen
as well as storing it and what we get
out from the model is Investments and
running patterns for the Technologies
invested
in so now I will move to the
results and here we investments in
electricity production so this is how
the results are presented it is divided
by each area or node gber and Lisi and
then we compare with availability of the
different Wind Farm sizes and it’s
outside gurg so either a smaller one or
the larger one and then lastly We
compare with availability of a pipeline
and without so here we don’t have the
possibility to invest in a pipeline and
then we see gurg that we get investments
in wind power PV Parks PV on rooftops
but we also have some combined heat and
power plants as well as combined cycle
gas turbines in stun we have only wind
and solar PV that’s also because
relative to the demand of electricity
within stund they have quite a good grid
grid connection so they can balance the
intermittency of these renewable energy
sources and and Eli we have a lot of
wind power some solar Parks uh and then
a little bit of combined cycle gas
turbines as well as some PV on
rooftops and I can also mention that for
all cases the maximum PV Park investment
of possible is taken so it’s always the
maximum allowed um investment in PV
parks in all nodes in all
cases if we compare then when we allow
for investments in a pipeline we see
that in gurg we get a significant
decrease in investments in electricity
production while in ston we get a larger
investment in wind power in Le we also
say a small increase in wind power as
well as that we don’t get investments in
PV on rooftops anymore as well as
combined cycle gas
turbines when we allow for the larger
Wind Farm outside gothenberg I should
also mention that this of course doesn’t
affect sing or Lu Shield when we don’t
allow for the pipeline so here St and LU
is the same as in the first case while
in gothamberg we see that the investment
is taken in the whole available capacity
of the offshore wind
F and when we then again allow for the
pipeline Investments
we see in gurg that we don’t change a
lot we get a bit less of uh combined
heat power
plants and uh in ston we see the same
Trend that we get a larger investment in
offshore wind power but in laser Shield
we get a decrease this
time and we if we instead look at the
electricity generation we can see in
gamberg and ston that over the year it’s
actually mainly imported electricity
that covers most of the
demand and here again we compare with
and without pipeline directly and we see
that part of the electricity supply for
guthenberg is moved one can say to ston
where we get a
larger
uh production than needed so the
diamonds in this plot represents the
electricity Demand
with um consideration to production of
hydrogen within the node so in ston we
produce more electricity than is needed
within the node and in gurg we in total
produce less electricity than is needed
in the node and in Le Shield we also see
that we produce a bit more electricity
than it’s needed and that’s because we
again take on a bit of hydrogen
production for uh gamberg for
instance for the cases with the larger
offshore Wind
Farm we uh yeah it’s correlates quite
well to the investments in the previous
graph we get a bit L less uh production
in gurg we get more production in St Z
and El Shield will also see that it’s
less uh electricity produced within the
node and if we move to the hydrogen part
of the
system here I show both investments in
electrolyzers which is the diamond and
also the investment in different
hydrogen storages so as I mentioned
earlier line Ro C is not allowed in
gamberg but instead you can build U uh
hydrogen
tanks so in the first case we get
investments in gurg of these hydrogen
tanks and we get line Dr carons in both
St when we then allow for pipeline
investment we see that the tank storage
in gburg decreases while the line Rock
Cavern storage in the increases and we
also see that the storage and Le Shield
decreases uh together with the increase
in stnd so this already points towards
the St soon become some sort of hydrogen
Hub one can say we also see that in
gburg we get a decrease in electrolyzer
size while in Sten we get an increase
and an increase in Lei as well and this
also correlates to the additional
investments in electricity production
when we have a larger offshore wind
power
Farm then we again see investments in
tank storage in gurg St is the same as
in the first
case and then when we allow for the
pipeline we see an even more Trend
towards steering Sun being this uh
storage that covers partly both Lil and
gutenberg’s demand for hydrogen
and here what I find a bit interesting
is that we see in leisi some interesting
patterns that first we see an increase
in electrolyzer size while the storage
is decreased and this is because in
these cases with a smaller offshore wind
power uh Farm then gurg Imports
approximately 40% of its annual hydrogen
demand so hydrogen is transported all
the way from Lil to stund and Gusenberg
but when we have more availability of
electricity in gburg then leil instead
becomes an importer of hydrogen and the
pipeline helps to balance the local
Energy System because then Le Shield
doesn’t have to cover for this uh
intermittency of variable renewable
energy sources by itself but it can uh
rely on standing Zone that has for
instance better connection to the
regional
greed and now we’re going to focus a bit
more on what’s happening in Stan sunnd
in the case with the large offshore wind
power farm and with a
pipeline so here we see the hydrogen
that is transported through the pipeline
between gur and sing sunnd we see the
state of charge of the line Rock Cavern
we see electrolyzer load and electricity
Supply and I want us to focus on this
part so here we see that there are some
hours where electricity prices are high
typically that’s why we don’t want to
import electricity from the regional
grid and it correlates with that we
don’t have a lot of wind power and we do
have some solar PV but here it shows
that it’s better to export it to the
regional grid than use it within the
system U we see that the electrolyzer in
these during these hours goes down to
zero so the electricity that is supplied
during these hours is mainly or only for
the city demand not the industry demand
at the same time we see that we use the
line Rock Cavern so it uh decreases its
energy
content but we continue to export um
hydrogen through the pipeline to gurg so
this becomes an example of when the
storage in stund uh works as a storage
for gurg as
well if we take a look at the system
cost we see that introducing a pipeline
in these kind of models uh results in a
lower system cost of somewhere between
4% and 7% depending on uh the different
uh scenarios and then the different
availability of sheep electricity within
the different
nodes and what we can conclude from this
study is that meeting hydren from
electrolyzers significantly increases
the demand for electricity in the
studied region Regional collaboration
through a pipeline lowers the total
system cost and the driving forces for
collaboration are the different
characteristics of the Cities
investigated so for instance we had
gburg with a high demand quite congested
limited VRE and grid connection we have
St Sun who has a comparatively large
availability of v and also comparatively
large grid connection and L Shield that
has a lot of V but restricted grid
connection and because they have these
different characteristics they can then
help each other in meeting these
demands and from here this is the study
I’ve been working on now so we’re
wrapping it up and then for future work
we’re looking into how do we get there
because as mentioned earlier this is
like a gold picture this is 2050 this is
when we don’t emit carbon dioxide
anymore uh and but we also need to get
there and we don’t know exactly in what
order the industry will transition to uh
yeah make your processes without carbon
dioxide emissions and we don’t know
exactly when the offshore wind power
projects will occur or be built and we
also don’t know really when we get this
uh grid expansion to the original grid
so we’re going to see a bit more like
what happens and how does that affect
the system U and also see if
it’s uh how the pipeline correlates to
it so that’s all for me thank you
thank you very much Sophia thank you so
uh yeah do we have any
questions I maybe just a question from
me Sophia I mean we know that Spen CRA
the Swedish T will have
um uh yeah problem there is a big gap
between what they can promise to the
West Swedish region compared to what the
industries have sort of in their plans
so I I I take it as you you included
these limitations similar to that or
uh or this is like what has been what is
currently part of the grid expansion
plan so this is based on what we know
that they have promised I guess now but
then we don’t know what will happen
afterwards uh and then again of course
it also needs to be electricity
production somewhere else in that case
so
um yeah but for the grid expansion this
is based on what we know now yeah from
the T from the TSO what yeah yeah
exactly yeah yeah so I just point out
that it’s it of course what you show is
that the it’s possible one but one needs
to do in in another way than just import
because you mentioned this import uh
from to this region
so okay thank you we have a question
from B uh yes my camera doesn’t work
today but but anyway I have um two
questions about the
assumptions what about the electricity
Market the prices what you assume there
and since you’re looking at Investments
what do you assume about the discount
rates thank
you thank
you
[Music]
um for the electricity price it is from
another of our models within our
division and uh the represents again a
2050 system it’s modeled using the
weather data from 2019 which I I have
used as well as uh my like when I take
weather data for the wind and solar
power I’ve also used 2019s data um and
in this model they have done projected
the prices for 2050 in a system with
more wind and solar than we have today
um so it varies a bit more than it is
now for instance
uh but represents again uh how a future
energy system could look
like and then we have an interest rate
of 5% so
we well that’s what we have in our
models usually so I guess it’s maybe
from an industry actor you want it a bit
higher
maybe than compared to these system
models but I’m
happy to get some input on
this uh well from my perspective is uh
when we’re doing cost benefit analysis
from the society’s point of view it’s
perfectly fine with 5% so we will will
usually say three and a half but uh from
a private investor I guess their
requirement is more than
5% maybe 10 I’m not sure I I I guess it
doesn’t depend on the different I mean
weighted average Capital cost and all
these kind of things which is yeah as
you say bank then also our type of model
is more like a
societal cost analysis rather than some
private investment cost I think
so yes from that point of view that the
discount rate
is is perfectly fine as long as it’s a
real discount rate which I suppose it is
you take into account inflation and so
on
uh but so the electricity price is based
on
2019 is that right so wasn’t it data but
it’s a modeled to represent 2050 so it’s
not historical data from 2019 but it’s a
model output from one of our larger
models that model northern European so
it’s
sc3 in a future system one could say
yeah it seems to me that would be the
critical parameter in this that because
it’s so electricity intensive this
system so what the price of electricity
is is really key I
suppose yeah in some ways I mean it the
of course it’s uh the availability of
sheap electricity that decides how we
run the electrolyzers for instance and
but as we could see from uh this study
as well we see that the High electricity
prices correlates to when we have low
availability of local wind resources for
instance so we capture that at some
hours there will be high prices and low
availability of Renewables and then we
see what is the most cost optimal and
the most cost optimal in this case is
not then to maybe build more combined
hit power plants or so it’s to avoid
these hours and have some storage that
can then uh cover for these hours
good thank you thank
you thanks good do we have an another
question
um I guess maybe a comment there Sophia
is relates to bank’s question is that of
course uh I mean uh this system it’s
sort of an optimized system so of course
a another thing would be yeah how can
this be built out time in a timely
manner to to so the demand should the
demand first or the generation and all
that which is a quite different thing so
but but in a future system with a lot of
renewable power electricity the prices
will not necessarily be high but will be
of course dependent a lot on these
flexibility measures that you study I
think
so okay if there are no other question
at the moment may we can you can also
think we can hopefully have some maybe
question time in the in the end so then
I I think we can go for yeah B uh
looking forward to your presentation so
thank you very nice to e meet you all um
before I start just I would assume that
most people in the in the meeting are
focused on
electricity is that true or is that um
also gas focused people in the uh in the
meeting I don’t know we we are not so
into fertilizers that I can say
but it’s very
important it is without FIS we we don’t
have much food no exactly yeah yeah in
the modern
agriculture but but I think all of us
all of us are aware of that of course in
the future we have more and more of this
sort of sector coupling everything so to
say depend on each other which is a
little bit different from historically
so I think that’s that’s a good point
that we should be care about the uh yes
and so on so we do to some extent but
yeah yeah okay so thank you very much
Sophia I I really like the second time I
see the presentation and it just
confirms our position that to build the
new Energy System that the industry in
the society needs we need to have
hydrogen infrastructure connecting
production and oft take and to make sure
that we can balance the entire system
and
I’m representing the hydren business and
infrastructure with nordon enery and
nordon enery is focused only on
infrastructure on electricity and gas so
we have the gas Tso and DSO for for
methane so natural gas and bio gas in
this part of Sweden and uh we also an
electricity DSO and fall big
on so we don’t have a conflict about
electricity or gas we try to maximize
the the benefit of each system and we
take great pride in in having uh very
high level of security of Supply so for
the gas TSO it’s very close to 100% And
this is very important the security of
Supply making sure that the society and
the industry have access to coste
efficient energy whether it’s in the
form of electricity or hydrogen or
methane uh we are owned by by an
European pension fund focused only on
infrastructure so everything we do it’s
transparent it’s longterm and it should
be
reliable uh so in the business model to
come come back to being a private
company if we have the longterm view we
can also allow lower uh sort of profit
margin or risk margin because then we
have a solid B instance for a long time
so low margin but a safe long-term view
so that’s the the basic of
infrastructure
Investments the current system is uh it
was 2022 up to 37% fed by biogas it went
down because the tax uh rules were
changed last year but we aiming on
reaching 100% green gas so it’s biog gas
only by 2030 we are not producing
ourselves so we need to work with
partners and to make sure we Ena to get
all the molecules into the system system
that is also then increasing the
security of supply for the entire
system we also working with a liquid
buas with a project in the harra of
gothenberg we’re working with ccus
project both in gothenberg and in in
malmer so we really tried to get all the
infrastructure parts needed to uh to go
for sector coupling to make sure we do
something better than we’ve done before
integrating the energy system and really
making sure that we did good system but
this is focused on
hydrogen Europe believes that hydrogen
is a very important part in the new
system for Europe for each country so we
we were approved with our two big
projects uh 8th of April last week as a
project of common interest both for the
Nordic hydrogen route and for the Baltic
Sea hydrogen collector and I will come
back lat to the power to Earth the the
project together with fatti and L Manon
this is the first section of the noric
hydrogen route
project the need of
hydrogen
um we see a lot of power points there’s
a lot of communication around hydrogen
but we wanted to find out on a
confidential basis where I cannot share
all the
details what is the current concrete
plans for locations with coordinates
timelines
capacities that’s both in produ ction
and off take what is it that we have
currently in Sweden so we have not just
looked on the official numbers we wanted
to find out what’s the truth and so far
the majority has been sort of focused on
the northern part of Sweden se1
se2 but there’s already now uh
information about sc34 as well so for
now uh this is the result by end of
October last year 29 companies with 50
concrete projects and the numbers
showing here adds up to 55 terawatt
hours by 2045 in consumption and 80
terawatt hours of
production but it starts already around
2028 but there’s plans if there’s a
connection between producer and an off
take so you have a connection you have a
value chain then that could be started
already in
2028 and what do the infrastructure
gives say we can connect the different
system we can comp complement the uh the
grid from uh sanska craft net so where
there’s a limitation to add overhead uh
power lines we can build the underground
pipeline instead we can also go directly
to the source we can go for off grid
Solutions as
well so this is just showing it’s
underground so it’s not impacting
Nature’s Society more than when it’s
being installed so the the reindeers and
the mooses Elks can walk over it you can
still farm the land Etc and apart from
being very efficient in space so with
clearance of 20 M you can of have 1.2 M
pipeline that trans brought the same
amount of energy as 14 overhead high
voltage power
lines to transport 42 gaw so it’s a huge
capacity in a single
pipe so if you trans turn that into cost
per one U one unit per I think it’s
1,000 M so the levelized cost of trans
transmission of quite a big number 6 gaw
but you see that as soon as you come up
to like 100 kilm you have a very clear
cost benefit compared to the normal
system of using your overhead 400 K KV
lines but what is very important we
don’t say stop with electricity this is
super important this is the backbone of
the Swedish energy system but what we
need is to complement that into a new
system where we can also easier handle
the volatility and
Supply uh on on the um Renewable Power
production and still keeping the quite
stable off-take need from the
industry so the projects the noric hyran
route is really to connect Finland and
Sweden up north where we have huge
potentials we have huge projects but in
order to get the balance between supply
and demand we need to connect it to a
bigger system we got the PCI status we
are just preparing the SEF application
we’re getting additional funding from y
the power Earth is the first section I
will show that on the map next we are
then also using the the input from the
Open Season to really see where is the
demand how can we best uh have an
infrastructure to meet that so we have
the coordinates we also have spent a lot
of times just in this Coastal area has
been more than I think it’s 60 or 70
meetings now with hundreds of people
talking to the municipalities what are
the needs what is the local value the
regional value that we can
create also been working quite a lot how
to connect and do Co laying of
electricity power line and hydrogen
pipelines because we have that knowledge
already from today from uh from the west
coast of Sweden for the methane system
so we use the same kind of experience
then so this is the part going from Le
in ymok municipality down to lulio so
this is the first section there’s an
very good connection for power up in Ley
next to a Hydro power
plant and and we have an excellent
opportunity with fatti beia to build
both the green ammonia and green
fertilizers in lulo and the Hatcher
Felts so we go and and sort of pick up
the energy where it’s available we
produce the hydrogen and then transfer
it in the 150 km underground pipeline
which is then much easier to get into
this narrow space between military areas
nature
areas uh
different difficult U geological
conditions Etc then we get it to a port
of lulio with an excellent
infrastructure as
well we have already started the early
consultations with Sami villages with
all the municipalities with then stzen
so they permitting for all the four
parts the grid connection the hyon
production the hyen underground Pipeline
and for the uh production unit in lulio
all the pro processes are now initiated
we are moving ahead to reach an an FID
to take financial decision this is
targeted for end of 2025 to be in
operation end of 2028 and this is a
challenge yes but why do we do this
Sweden don’t have any domestic
production of ammonia this has been
imported from Belarus from Russia Etc uh
we don’t have any uh domestic production
of fertilizers this has also
been supplied quite a lot from Eastern
Europe so we need to stop that we need
to be self sufficient or supplying in
the country so in times of difficulties
uh then we have more control of our own
food supply chain in
Sweden this part because it’s the first
section of an open system it needs
already from the start to be addressed
as an open system so the Capac capacity
should not only be to enable the power
to Earth
Project it needs also to accommodate for
the Future Energy System
connecting uh up in the malarian down to
the co biogenic C2 sources along the
coast to really to create a big new
Energy
System and and this is really about
accelerating and also creating this new
part
of creating the energy infrastructure up
north because building huge power lines
it is a challenge up north there’s a lot
of area but very little
space so we’re developing the project
with a three Partners together and we’re
driving this now fast forward together
and uh working quite a lot with keeping
Authorities on our toes uh we have
already agreed on on the legal framework
even if it’s not clear even if it’s not
perfect it’s enough that we start now we
don’t have to wait we go for
it also want to touch on on the Baltic
Sea I was in malma yesterday talking
with offshore wind and with the
concerning hydrogen so this is an
excellent opportunity both in the Baltic
Sea and on the west coast to connect
offshore Ren reable power generation and
connect that to markets and and one
cost-efficient way to do that is to
produce hydrogen and have an
infrastructure of hydrogen to connect it
to a
market so in all these types of
Investments you need to have an sort of
a secured off but also if you go for an
investment to change to a new energy
Supply you need to have a secure Supply
situation so you really need to connect
the two and of course that have a cost
efficient the right price have the
permitting in place but then you can
have a business and you go for an
investment
decision this is also PCI status it’s a
seph application we working also with
the TSO in Germany so we have a great
connection on how to build the Energy
System together but it should not be to
drain the energy that we are producing
in Sweden should just be to secure the
Energy System securing the
supply to make sure that we can go for
for the big uh green transition that we
need to do in Sweden in Europe and as a
such West Coast this is already where we
use hydrogen so for me I’m I’m a little
bit pule still that most people talk
only about the northern part of
Sweden there’s also great knowledge and
experience and Shamus is showing that
I’m very sure that the fire brigade the
municipalities the land stud they are
already so aware of sort of gases
explosive materials so this is an sort
of normal business there’s already
knowledge about uh gas infrastructure
which is currently representing 20% of
the energy Supply in the region on the
west coast in
scorland there’s also like pointed out
is a limitation and capacity in the to
supply electricity
the power capacity
limitation so this is really where we
want to see an a concrete projects and
uh to start with Partners to get
anything from an initiative to a
project see
and get full so what we want to see is
really that we aim on the energy system
that we need to reach the planning
Target that the uh government has set in
the proposal for the proposition to
reach the 300 plus terawatt hours by
2045 so we need to connect we need to
make sure that we utilize the resources
in the right location so we already
working very closely with FES CET doing
system analysis and starting uh on the
path of co-planning to make sure that we
built where we have the right conditions
for each system to combine that in in a
new system and then of course the sector
couplings where we have byen CO2 where
we have waste heat that can be used to
replace District heating can we use the
biomass for G biog gas production
instead so there’s a lot of components
that we need to uh have in place to
write make the right
decisions and the energy agency report
from the 26 of March it was stating that
we need to combine the knowledge and
experience from ethane with hydrogen
it’s really a gas infrastructure so keep
it together and we do have the knowledge
and competence and the experience from
within nordon energy to provide that to
secure that this is going in in a good
path
forward the rules and regulation are
sufficient they’re not perfect but we
want to sort of improve as we move
forward and make sure that we do this
co- plan rning in a consistent and very
constructive way so the conclusion is
basically go now and this is what we do
and just the last Point Europe we’re a
part of Europe whether we like it or not
and and we do have an integrated Energy
System already today and we need to make
sure that the future system for hydrogen
infrastructure is also then set in the
right framework so we are working now
during this uh period up until June
together with the other tsos in Europe
to put in place the uh no the European
network of network operators for
hydrogen so we’re the only
representative from
Sweden and this is really to make sure
that how decisions are made what are the
framework that would be put in place
that this is something that is good also
for Sweden so this is what we do and
that should be ready before July this
summer and then be hand it over to
Acer so do not consider to act act this
is really
important thank
you thank you very much thank you thank
you very much P so do we have uh some
questions on on
this interesting talk it seems to be a
lot in the pipeline so to
say to be witty question
yeah a question there maybe for me is
that uh I of course there is a lot of
thing it seems to be a lot of already
being started with with sort of Norway
Germany Denmark context so maybe just
from looking at outside it’s a bit
surprised that in your infrastructure
what you show the the con possible
connection say from the West Coast
directly to Denmark that that’s that was
only appeared in your one of your last
slides but wouldn’t that be something
that could be of interest because it’s
after all it’s compared to the other
distances that you showed it’s it’s
quite short distance I mean I of course
we have it from the South but but yeah
there’s a lot isn’t it a risk that we
get uh yeah miss the train so to
say very good point and that is the
frustration that we have told the
politicians the authorities uh that if
we wait too long that then we will just
be sitting in the back seat of of the
car so Denmark Norway Finland is also
starting to get a position on how to
connect the energy system to make sure
that you create the the benefits within
the country utilize the opportunities
for new industry for new workplaces but
then also connect to enable the the
connection for security of Supply
helping to decarbonize uh other parts of
of Europe as
well so this is a fact but we are
already we have a cooperation agreement
with all the gas tsos around the the
Baltic Sea we have very frequent
discussion with the German DNA BM car
with net concerning connection Sweden
Denmark but this has been discussed
since at least two years and so what we
need is a concrete project on the west
coast so of what is the supply what is
the oft take how does that match with
the needs and the opportunities in
Denmark there’s gas storage opport
unities in Denmark that can be utilized
but right now they have 100% focus on on
building the the pipeline system that
they have greed connecting Denmark and
and
Germany yeah but if we sit waiting then
there’s a lot of new investments in
Renewable Power production hydrogen
production that will never happen in
Sweden if we don’t take an active role
as as Sweden we are pushing forward as
much as we can from from our side to
make sure that we are in in dialogue
that we are creating concrete projects
because we cannot wait but we we need to
make sure that we are doing the right
for for
Sweden yeah good good that you’re active
so um any other points
um not um well another I was thinking is
of course you’re right that I mean the
cost of uh produc uh transporting hydran
is seems to be attractive compared to
electricity and of course also with this
we we know all these permitting
challenges for overhead lines in
particular for electricity but of course
you I mean you you need of course to
produce the hydrogen uh uh but so I mean
of course you at some somewhere you need
electricity uh Transmission in in any
case but I guess the the what your point
is that you you you sort of change you
get a more more degrees of freedom where
to to put the electricity infrastructure
if you can also play around with with Hy
I guess so yes it’s it’s but the
challenge is of course the production
well I mean there is a challenge in
producing hydrogen of course
and yeah and and the fact is that you
don’t need to start with the uh with the
electrical grid you can’t start with an
energy production so if there’s an wind
Park that can produce energy that’s
turned into hydrogen and then it can
feed into the system through a hydrogen
pipeline but of course hydrogen is not
the solution to to everything if you
want to convert it back on a on a
continuous basis to
electricity the uh efficiency is too low
if you use it to balance on on the
capacity issue then I think it’s a very
good solution if it’s already
available yeah yeah I mean there will be
hours uh that are worth a lot and then
it maybe we have another PhD student who
who looked at that with gas turbines uh
uh um with with powered partly or in a
entirely by hyen and those could be
coming in for those rather a few hours
that are are critical although then
probably there will need some sort of uh
procured capacity Market or something
for that but yes and and of course
presenting these huge projects The btic
Collector combined with Nordic hydren
route that’s more than 200 million sec
in investment
so of course we are doing the uh nhr
project together with the Finish St on
company gas grid and the in the Baltic
Sea it’s together with Ox 2 with gas
grid and with Copenhagen infrastructure
partner that there’s need for doing a a
lot of project financing to get that the
full project in place but that’s why we
start with the power tur that this is a
concrete it’s big enough for sure but
it’s a Concrete project with a conrete
production concrete off take and we have
a distance we have already started the
permitting so this is really to show
that it
works yeah and then and then we just
have to have that sort of longterm view
when we should have the the entire
system in operation but it’s all based
on the
need we don’t make plans because we we
think it’s it’s nice and it would be
nice to have and needs always to be the
the need from the society industry how
we can meet the uh the green transition
to take out all the fossile energy that
we have today and replace that with new
so we we cannot just take it away we
need to replace it with something and
this is the infrastructure to make that
happen so no other questions I think you
can also ask for sopia’s presentation so
so but
um see no h but and I maybe okay about
fertilizer I mean you I think it was a
very good point you made that that of
course self-sufficiency we don’t have
any currently any we have to import rely
on import so but then of course maybe
it’s outside your scope but why is it a
Spanish company one one could think of
there are no
Swedish companies or or that could build
this or what what’s in it for for them
and what’s in it for us I mean of course
it good to have Factory in Sweden
obviously but but um yeah you have any
comment on that or someone needs to do
it and and of course uh fatti beia is a
company that don’t have a lot of sort of
stranded asset they they they are
already uh they have only their first
green fertilizer production poano in in
Spain and they want to uh to work in in
other geographies as well so they have
the knowledge they have the access to
the markets and also through lunman and
then of course we are very well
positioned to the the off take directly
in Sweden and then produce enough also
for for export of course yeah so you
need companies that uh have the guts and
the will the plans to do it we cannot
force someone to open up a fertilizer
Factory of course
but
yeah and and one comment on on Sophia’s
presentation yeah the apart from the
hybrid line Rock Cavern there’s already
line Rock Cavern that we are owning and
operating it was built about 20 years
ago scalan which is north of hamster
this used for for methane but but it’s
already there it’s working on a daily
basis so we know how it works and we
know also the next one how that should
be improved to build it even better and
it was the blueprint for for hybrids
yeah that was a question in the chat
what is the name of the Spanish company
and it’s group OFA 30A
yeah so yeah but I think also the
already the Vell um also there pilot uh
line Rock Cavern has worked to turn out
to work Beyond expectations as far as I
understand so it works very well so so
that’s um and I guess for your
industrial product that you had on this
map that was included Al all these kind
of products that that have been yeah
maybe officially and unofficially also
presented including the Iron and Steel
sector I guess the map you showed yeah
yeah that’s correct yeah
yeah so yeah and yeah I think the uh for
both your presentations obviously I
think that um a challenge is how how can
we how can we get this um to materialize
in terms so that that we get enough
production uh in a timely manner
expanding that at the same time as as
the U demand expands and and there’s of
course a risk that that the Investments
yeah I I guess we need a lot of these
kind of uh agree longterm agreements
between different companies in order to
get this in place as as I think was
indicated from your presentation B to to
get this uh otherwise we risk peras with
very low electricity prices which would
be a sort of a problem for those who
invest in generation and of course if
the generation lags then then those who
will use electricity or hydrogen will
will have problems with high electricity
prices I guess that’s maybe one of the
main challenges to to get this timely
expansion uh yes do we need to clarify
roles and responsibilities authorities
and other actors and and then of course
also having a Direction that’s clear
from the government this is what we want
to do yeah yeah this is the direction
there was a comment in the uh chat that
Spanish EA is investing in Swedish
offshore wind also I spot a pattern yeah
maybe that Spanish Spain is is uh
conquering uh Sweden I don’t know they
they’re very much uh into Renewable
Power and there a lot of investment so
they have already learned a lot iida is
also working with the with fatty area
and they’re working with H2 green steel
so yeah
that’s good okay uh time is um time is
uh
10:00 and uh there seems to be no more
questions I think this was
um very very interesting and I think
there is a lot uh I one can almost get a
little bit depressed by the the
political debate that it’s so polarized
whereas there is so much interesting
things that can be done and of course
Sweden we have a very good
conditions compared to many other
countries so I think your both your
presentations really show all the
possibilities that we have so from a
Swedish perspective and
so
so realize the Sophia’s plans yeah
exactly it’s just to go out there and do
it yeah exactly yeah yeah okay um uh
there are there anything um Daniel uh I
think there is we are also PL planning
if there’s something more we should yeah
in the M ification Pro we’re planning
also for
a uh webinar we haven’t decided the date
yet but it will be about flexibility for
uh heat pumps because we also Electrify
the heating sector uh so that that is
also something on Smart uh use of elect
heat and electricity so we’ll focus that
in our next presentation probably some
date in in May next month
so okay but uh uh I thank BJ and sopia
and all others who are listening and
thanks a lot and uh well see you next
time bye thanks a lot have a nice day
bye bye

A webinar that focuses on expected hydrogen demand on the Swedish west coast and the plans for establishing a fossil-free mineral fertiliser factory in Luleå.

Speakers: Sofia Rosén, PhD Student, Chalmers University of Technology, and Björn Santana Arvidsson, Deputy Managing Director, Nordion Energi H2.