Analyzing Bitcoin Market Sentiment With Artificial Intelligence

Analyzing Bitcoin Market Sentiment With Artificial Intelligence

you know I think I think AI is a term
that’s that’s tossed around pretty
Loosely nowadays and I think it’s used
to gain popularity and to gain
investment like we use two we use AI in
two parts of of animus for the signal
gen the first is actually doing the
sentiment analysis which requires
actually understanding what the textual
analysis is and then creating signals
out of that so that’s kind of like the
first and that’s not something that we
created right like sentiment analysis is
an open source tool there’s plenty of
people that do it right
[Music]
hello everyone and welcome back to
another episode of Bitcoin magazine
podcast I’m your host Alan Helm on
today’s episode I am joined by Max
Millian Pace co-founder and CEO of
animus Technologies animus provides
patented technology for developing and
deploying reliable Aid driven trading
strategies at an Institutional scale
they were the 2023 winner of Samara
Alpha Management in Bitcoin magazine
Pros inaugural Bitcoin Alpha
competition animus was awarded 1 million
in C capital and access to Samara
Alpha’s institutional great
infrastructure for managing their fund
today’s conversation is going to serve
as a catchup on all things related to
animus since winning back in October of
last year Max how you doing man good
thanks for having me guys appreciate it
yeah definitely it’s a pleasure to have
you on I know in our previous
conversations you know we we chatted
quite a bit about about animus but
before we get into the nitty-gritty of
like what animus does you know what
think what you guys are up to right now
really would love to understand you know
your journey into Bitcoin how did you
first encounter Bitcoin um as I
understand you know there’s a little bit
history in your you know Collegiate
Pursuits and stuff maybe we can talk
about USC but yeah tell me how’d you
first find Bitcoin and how’d you get to
where we’re at today yeah good question
so I actually I grew up in the San
Francisco Bay area and when I was going
to high school
one of my best friends whose dad was the
head data engineer at Facebook was
talking about Bitcoin very heavily back
in like 2013 2014 and it was funny
because I was I was around their
household often and they actually were
talking about a group of Facebook execs
trying to own 1% of the open supply of
Bitcoin um I naturally was very
fascinated by technology um but I also
had more of a financer gearing towards
what would be a finance background um
you know interest rather you know in
high
school um but I had heard about Bitcoin
several times um through someone I
really respected and Trust um and I
started to find a a curiosity for it um
so through kind of that early discussion
and centered around around Facebook
execs I found an interest in it um
shortly after that I started investing
it myself personally and you know the
way it all led into animus was I
actually played tennis at Stamford um so
I I actually knew a couple researchers
at
Stamford um I played on their junior
teams and when I went to USC I noticed
that one of the researchers there had
actually put out a a paper on using Ai
and using data to try and forecast
Bitcoin prices um I found this super
fascinating um at the time I actually
had one of my my closest friends was
extremely Adept and um proficient in the
world of AI machine learning computer
science right so I found this is like a
perfect intersection of our skills and I
also had the time had trouble trading it
myself right like we all had our our
stories about trying to trade um crypto
as we got into it early on and um most
of us have the same result and that it’s
better not to to trade it yourselves
without the right tools right so to me
this prevented a fascinating opportunity
to try and get into the space more
officially and more professionally um
and that’s kind of how anist was born
was off the heels of some
research dude that’s awesome to hear I
know uh you know I know there’s a lot of
people listening that wish they were
kind of as early as you uh but I still
like to say that like you
know Now’s the Time if you don’t have
Bitcoin now like now’s like the perfect
time to buy it’s always the best time to
buy you know we all say you get in at
the price you deserve and it’s
interesting you know in terms of your
journey that it was a bunch of Facebook
execs that uh you know piqued your
interest so to say uh as far as like
with what’s going on um in the space I
don’t I don’t know if obviously I you
can’t name drop any of the uh Facebook
execs that were interested in Bitcoin
itself but tell me a little about
specifically about like what Drew you to
bitcoin was it like number go up um or
was it like some of the value
propositions how it’s like scarce um you
know there’s this kind of immutable uh
like there no one can step in and tell
you how to spend your Bitcoin or how to
use use your Bitcoin what was it that
really Drew you to bitcoin bitcoiners
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the truth I saw Bitcoin as an
opportunity to become a leader um in a
space that was relatively Uncharted like
in most traditional Financial assets um
you know tenure and years of experience
is generally the predominant driver in
who gets to make the decisions right
like if you look at like the real estate
Market or the equities market right a
lot of the portfolio managers at that
level um are often people who are
employed by shops for 25 30 years right
and that’s because they have the best
knowledge and experience but something
that was super cool and unique to me
about the crypto world is that everyone
kind of starting from scratch right like
there was no like real structural
Advantage um in crypto which I found
super fascinating so the ability to get
in at the ground floor was something as
Innovative as Bitcoin as as
cryptocurrencies whole to me presented a
ton of really attractive um
opportunities and and value propositions
and then on top of that right it’s like
we all know that you know the way that
technology moves and grows um being at
the ground floor of something truly
revolutionary um can be life-changing
right so it was an opportunity of the
ability to assert myself into kind of
this this thought leadership and this
this this leadership like role um and
something that I ultimately had a lot of
conviction in and on top of that you
look at Bitcoin as a store of value and
you know the fact that it’s
decentralized that it’s that it’s scarce
in value and that it’s accessible by the
world to me those those all kind of
screamed and and presented a solid case
for you know this is truly going to be a
a really solid store of value moving for
um so it’s a combination of the value
proposition and Bitcoin itself and the
opportunity present in the
market absolutely I know when you and I
were chatting uh you were telling me
about a pretty interesting story about
uh some of the things you had to do to
get the company off the ground um you
and your co-founder tell me a little bit
about that Journey um obviously you know
being at USC um trying to get the fund
off the ground you know doing whatever
doing whatever you can uh to not you
know obviously there are bills to pay
and stuff like that and the fund just
doesn’t like spin up overnight um and I
know your co-founder had some uh you
know technical capabilities on like the
AI side that merge really well with your
business Acumen tell me a little bit
about that yeah so sorry you mind
repeating some of that yeah for sure so
I know when you and I were conversing uh
you you had a pretty interesting origin
story for getting the company off the
ground and uh you know some of the jobs
that you were working prior to to bring
the fund together tell me a little bit
about that Journey yeah for sure so you
know Jack and I are my CTO um we
launched this actually or we started
working on this at USC um so as you can
imagine a project with this kind of
level of rigor especially on the
technical side involved tons of research
and tons of trial and error right so we
were lucky enough to have started this
at USC um where we had plenty of time on
our hands to be able to actually explore
and build the tools that were necessary
and ultimately like that govern and you
know Encompass the animous platform
today um and then we actually raised
some some Capital to be able to test
these signals live on different accounts
right so over that next time you know we
we gave it years of of of training to
make sure that the product was actually
as solid as we anticipated with our back
testing results and the funny part is in
that time we obviously had to go and you
know go into our careers and make money
right so I actually went into more of
the traditional Finance space I worked
for a couple different funds um
specifically on the real estate side and
Jack actually went to pursue a career in
game design both of us knew the whole
time that we wanted to be an animous
full-time right but we also know that as
wealth managers the most important thing
um the most important in the world is
track record or is the ability to prove
in different conditions over time that
you’re able to produce the results that
you that you say you can right so to us
you know we had done all the leg work of
kind of getting the strategy and getting
the tech in place to be able to deploy
it um and then we went and got different
jobs elsewhere um you know and an an
anticipation of one day quitting
together and joining forces once again
in a more full-time capacity and that’s
kind of what’s happened um over that
time frame so right around the two-year
mark in terms of our live track record
with one of our Bitcoin Alpha strategies
um which was a strategy basically saying
hey can we out you know can we
outperform the Bitcoin Market without
any shorting or leverage you know
through two years of successful
year-over-year history there we then had
the confidence to then go raise a seed
round and actually do this thing
full-time dude that’s so awesome I
definitely want to get a little bit more
into um you know animous strategy as it
relates to Ai and the signals that you
use to provide insights um but obviously
uh there’s there’s a story to be told in
between all that where you know you were
working um you know you were working
these jobs in finance uh your CTO Jack
was like doing game developing and game
design um you guys had to have obviously
had uh you know strong conviction in the
Bitcoin Market to be doing all these
things all at once um and now that you
guys have you guys have been through I
guess shoot it’s been what two cycles
two Bitcoin Cycles now that you’ve lived
through you guys are still here which is
like awesome in comparison to like
everybody else who hasn’t made it um I’m
curious to get like your thoughts on
like how you would describe like the
evolution of the Bitcoin Market over the
last couple of years and how that’s kind
of leaned into maybe some of the price
signals that you guys do have it’s a
great question yeah I mean look the
reality is is the Bitcoin Market itself
is nothing compared to 2017 right like
it is so different um nothing being
nothing is the same um it’s dramatically
on undergone shifts in the body of
holders and the level of rigor and
sophistication that’s involved in the
modeling um basically the people who are
involved are getting more and sophis
more and more sophisticated by the day
and I think the large majority of that
has actually come in the most recent
months which what you’re seeing in on
the traditional Finance space
essentially giving giving us endorsement
to offering this product or Bitcoin
exposure to tons of new investors right
so I think slowly but surely and what
will be more accelerated now is people
are are really turning their heads
towards this thing um as more and more
trusted names in the traditional Finance
space um encourage it as as countries
create you know more accepting laws and
regulations around it and ultimately
provide on-ramps to to crypto you know
there’s more and more opportunity for
people to get involved in the space
which entices more and more competition
in what I’m doing right so you know it’s
it’s an interesting point and to
understand you know signal flow like
originally we were very keen on
understanding the retail environment
right and that’s cuz we were the 2017
time so it was like okay sentiment data
right like understanding topical
sentiment on these assets is probably
the biggest driver of price which we
found to be very sticky at the time that
was a very like you know core concept to
what animus believed in and recently
we’re like hey there’s bigger players
getting the space how does this change
right so it’s it’s it’s gone from
something that was a bit more focused on
sentiment analysis to actually using
sentiment analysis with technical
indicators with onchain metrics with
actually studying and evaluating real
time the flows right the supply and
demand in real time as it relates to
kind of these larger entrance in the
market
potentially I feel like we’ve been uh
avoiding addressing the elephant in the
room here as far as these like big
players go um so I’m just going to say
you know ETFs are in the game black
Rock’s here Fidelity’s here we’ve got
Valkyrie I mean like the list is huge of
all like the new players in the game
with this Bitcoin ETF and like as you
mentioned you know original Focus might
have been on retail um but rightfully so
you guys are like you know viewing this
new opportunity with institutions and
some of the um price signals you’re able
to provide them especially if it relates
to some of these other funds and stuff
um you know as as we’ve entered this new
era with the spot ETF you know seemingly
driving the market you know um what what
would you say is the biggest difference
here I think we’re like What four five
months in now into these ETFs being
approved things have definitely shifted
a lot I mean heck I think uh back when
you guys were initially um uh getting
into the Samar Alpha competition at
Bitcoin 2023 price was only at what
26,000 and now we’re at 70 71 at the
time of this recording things have
changed a lot yeah
totally um well look if we want to talk
about institutions I think the the the
biggest change um and the sudden change
is just the supply and demand IM balance
like I’m learning more and more you know
as I’ve studied the relationship in
Bitcoin to not over complicate it right
it’s all about supply and demand and
that’s why everyone has always been so
you know hyped up on the having right is
because that actually affects the real
supp demand as well right so now we’re
looking at something completely
different which is a potential demand
shock right which is the fact that you
know over since since these new on these
new on RS have been created there has
been a significantly larger amount of
Demand right than than open Supply right
and that’s driving the number Bitcoin on
exchanges down that’s creating
significantly more price action to the
upside right and I think we’re living in
a world where if demand continues to
outpace supply there’s going to be a
demand shock which essentially is going
to you know Skyrocket the price in my
opinion um right whether that happens
now or in the future when that happens
is hard to predict but the reality is is
there’s definitely a supply and demand
imbalance that is very real that has
constantly affected the price um that is
only getting more
profound you know it it’s interesting
that you say that it’s like it’s like we
know the institutions are aware
of you know the having coming up the
impact that it’s going to have on price
and such and like for a minute there
when things got approved we were like
everyone was like oh this was already
priced in you know at 40K and then price
went down a little bit and then now you
like obviously we’re back up to 70 I
still want to say like things aren’t
priced in at all um like what is What is
your overall current assessment of like
just the the sentiment of Bitcoin like
where are we where are we headed here in
the next you know having’s coming up in
April 6 months from now like
historically things would like you know
go crazy but this this time feels like
just so different yeah you know I it’s
funny you say that because I honestly
agree like I think it’s hard for people
to truly understand the potential
impacts of again just how much more
participation is created ed through the
on-ramps and the vehicles that were just
established right and those things have
a trickle effect right like obviously it
might be um pretty profound at the
beginning right but over time like this
is going to exponentially increase the
amount of people who are interested the
amount of people who have accessibility
to these different types of Investments
um so to me I agree and I share the
sentiment that you know we’re kind of
just getting started with understanding
the true impacts of the level of now
what this ecosystem has arrived at um
and then in terms of like what that
happens the price I try to stay away
from Price predictions um but what I
will say is that it’s hard to understand
or to really I would say like forecast
this on a short to medium scale what I
will say is that I think over the next
year plus you know we we should see
prices exponentially higher than what we
see today
right yeah and I guess the better
question is is like what’s the uh what’s
the scarcity going to be you know in six
months and everybody knows that that’s
the that’s the interesting thing thing
about all this is that there are certain
known variables right the issuance
Supply when the having is going to occur
I guess the big unpredictability part is
just like you know when is everyone
going to finally wake up and such and
you know only time will tell you know I
think you know everybody everybody buys
Bitcoin at the price they
deserve um I do want to Circle back a
little bit so obviously you guys have
been convicted for a long time on
bitcoin you guys believe in Bitcoin um
so much so to the point that like you
guys kind of know what’s going to happen
in the foreseeable future and stuff but
obviously that can’t be said for getting
the fund off the ground there’s a lot of
work that you had to had to do to put
the proof uh into the pudding so to say
um and so you know that obviously
inspired you guys to apply for the pitch
day uh competition that was put on um at
Bitcoin 2023 in Miami um could you tell
me a little bit more about your
perspective of your your time like uh
you know applying for the Bitcoin Alpha
competition and then you know post
winning like how was it working with
Samar Alpha management yeah so it’s
funny because when I when I was first
introduced to the Bitcoin Alpha
competition it was like wow we have we
are really aligned for this particular
objective right like I had been solving
that for years on my own time what’s
funny is that in the beginning you know
both Jack and I as my CTO we agreed
we’re like hey you know let’s figure out
the business model later right we know
that if we can solve this it’s going to
be an extremely valuable thing right so
to then kind of like seemingly walk into
a competition that perfectly fitted what
we had been doing which kind which is
kind of a match made in heaven we’re
like wow we we should probably have a
chance of winning this thing right so
you fast forward a couple months later
and I’m on stage at Bitcoin Amsterdam
talking about you know how we won which
was a really cool career defining moment
for me and it was it was super cool um
but honestly like the competition was an
excellent experience um again and it
showed and it proved the fact that there
is demand for finding and sourcing
Talent around asset management and
particular funds for managing the
volatility present in the Bitcoin market
right and what’s amazing is that there’s
a massive disconnect in the world of
asset management in terms of emerging
manners and establishing kind of
incumbents right or or people in the
space who who manage Capital it is
extremely difficult and is extremely
expensive to get to that next level
right and that’s kind of why we had been
doing what we had done prior to Samar
was we had done things via smas which we
can connect into accounts via API and
kind of manage in a more lowcost fashion
but still build up the track record
necessary to kind of get to the next
step so Samar really provided us with a
launching pad to kind of get out to this
next level which is kind of the fund
space um so we’re really excited to be
able to launch that fund again I think
the difference between our fund and and
most others is this is a product of
almost seven years of work um over two
Market Cycles thousands of hours of
testing of rigor and of different
strategies so the the fund that we’re
going to roll out is going to feature
our best work in Bitcoin and ethereum
and it’s going to be on a long short
basis um so Samar stepping in as a
partner there is truly exceptional you
know one thing I will say too is um
Beyond being able to get an audit right
it’s very difficult to truly
evaluate these investment opportunities
and Standalone like people really love
what I have to say but it’s it’s really
hard to like glean on credibility um
with all the different options in the
space so to have a professional come in
and say hey we’ve looked at these these
guys we’ve interviewed them we’ve
rigorously looked through their code and
everything they do and you know they’re
going to be number one this year um to
us that was such a massive credibility
boost so beyond even like the tools and
the compliance and the reporting and all
the kind of like more hard tools that
they’re going to give us the fact that
we are able to be brought into this
light of another credible player in the
space that’s truly operating at that
level um has been kind of lifechanging
FR
USS I can imagine you know especially
you know not only the connections that
you’ve been able to form over the last
few years but just getting to go to
Miami then getting to go to Amsterdam
and like you know starting to develop
this network of people that isn’t just
USC and you know some connections you
had to some Facebook devs now it’s like
you’re kind of plugged in to the world
which is very cool to see and I’m sure
inspiring for you know anybody listening
thinking like hey maybe maybe I should
get involved this year taking some tips
from Max and team from winning could you
talk to me a little bit more maybe about
specific networking opportunities that
uh the competition has afforded you an
animus yeah well for one right after we
won in in Amsterdam we were pulled into
the VIP room at at Amsterdam I was
giving some interviews talking to Mike
Jano um just kind of like I I gotten
exposed right away to like that next
basket of institutional kind of VIPs in
the Bitcoin space so that off the the
heels was amazing right and on top of it
like I use a lot of the promotion and
the article actually you guys wrote um
to help get some credit ility so whether
it’s funo funds private heet worths um I
think people are starting to obviously
you guys are a big you know player in
the space as well so a lot of people
recognize me as hey you guys won the
competition or you know we saw you on
bitcoin magazine um I think that kind of
like reciprical credibility has has
definitely permeated into into the
market um so whether or not you know
it’s one of those things I think we live
in a world where people glean on
different things for credibility and um
that has been massive um and kind of
building a case for why animus and um
it’s an exciting time so in terms of
networking opportunities you know
whether it’s conferences or podcasts
I’ve actually focused a lot on just kind
of like being a thought leader and
getting my my word into the into the
market and my opinions um so I was on
another podcast earlier today but I’ve
done a lot of podcasts that have kind of
come off the heels of this
competition dude that’s awesome I mean
the network effects that are just you
know not only Within you know attending
some of these conferences uh but just
having these kind of conversations with
other bitcoiners like you know there’s
always somebody listening who’s like hey
like either I want to deploy capital or
I want to get involved or in that you
know are in some sort of boat that’s
comparable to that so since your time so
like obviously samar’s given you like
all this fantastic infrastructure um
that that you’ve allowed to incorporate
into your fund and such um could you
talk a little bit about like you know
how important that operational infr
infastructure is and just being able to
like streamline your ability to deliver
Alpha for your investors yeah I’d say
it’s kind of a two anwered question like
the first is you’re saving a ton on
costs right like getting these things up
as I mentioned is not cheap um so the
fact that we can save a ton of money on
actually getting the correct structures
in place the master feeder fund being
able to offer again domestic and
international investors opportunities to
this and then doing all the counterparty
stuff with actually vetting the Third
you know that the the counterparties
that we’re going to use and having them
all kind of ready to go is amazing and
then second it allows us as managers to
focus on what we’re good at which is the
portfolio management and understanding
the signal flow and the research right
so I think something that F fund
managers you know and I I don’t want to
speak for all of them but a lot of them
have to focus on all the other pieces of
the business right which inherently
takes away from your time to focus on
the signal which is the most important
part it’s the driving factor of
everything we do right so what I love
about this relationship is that allows
animist to focus on what we’re what
we’re best at which is research right we
can focus on understanding new
relationships in the market making sure
that we’re incorporating new data feeds
and new data structures into our our
models to be able to consistently keep
up with how quickly and dynamically
things are changing right and that in of
itself is a massive you know Endeavor
right so the fact that we can do that we
can focus on what we’re good at and
continuing to make sure that the signals
are providing value value to me is the
most important thing right and then
beyond that I want to have someone with
with you know tons of of Industry
expertise tons of of expertise there
that can actually help us fill in the
blanks and provide a truly special
vehicle um in tandem which is why I’m
really you know I’m really happy about
the smart
partnership as you guys continue to grow
um what are some of the challenges that
you know animus is faced you know with
implementing some of the investing
strategies that you guys have on hand
has that adjusted at all with the growth
with the growth of the fund or is that
like not a not a factor when um you know
analyzing some of these things yeah so
what’s in what’s really nice about what
anus is doing is we’re actually doing
like Trend following type strategies so
as opposed to Arbitrage or capitalizing
on inefficiencies and markets you know
we’re actually trying to determine you
know we’re trying to predictively or or
retroactively determine trends of the
market that are forming right what’s
nice about that is that that lends
itself to trade times of 2 to three
weeks weeks right so my average position
is actually something to the tune of 14
to 21 days um as opposed to a lot of
people who are taking you know very
small high frequency bets throughout the
day what’s nice about what we’re doing
is that inherently that makes it
extremely scalable right if you have
entry and exit signals that you can get
into over the course of a couple hours
versus a couple of seconds that makes a
massive difference in your ability to
scale your product right um I like it
more because I also think that there is
inherently more value in trying to
determine you know real swings in the
market as opposed to capitalizing on
some of those inefficiencies they
mentioned so um in terms of the trading
style right like that in it of itself um
lends itself to the ability to scale to
hundreds of millions if not billions of
dollars Without Really diminishing the
strategy um returns in of itself so I’m
really happy about kind of the forward-
facing opportunity to grow without
necessarily cutting into the value for
the
investors could you tell me a little bit
you know when it comes to operating on
like the the day-to-day stuff for the
funds could you tell me what skills you
think are most important for executing
operations is it like simply a matter of
like Quant type work or there other
skills whether like social or mental
that you think are important when
serving not not only a clients but as
anim as a CEO yeah um I definitely think
that there is a level of like humanistic
qualities that go into managing the team
right like my my counterpart Jack is
exceptional at what he does um but it’s
it’s a hard it’s hard man like to work
in a silo and really trying to like
predict something that’s inherently like
unpredictable is extremely hard and it’s
it’s a hard Endeavor to undertake right
so um I like the relationship we have
because you know he obviously does more
of this the the actual coding and
programming of the logic um but there’s
always a sounding board with between us
of understanding ideas talking about how
we observe differences in the market um
understanding the different players
right and like for me it’s like all also
going out into the market and
understanding you know what is everyone
else looking at right like what is
everyone else that we like um or players
in the space that we look up to what
kind of data are they looking at what
kind of Trends are they seeing right so
it’s a it’s kind of a a check and
balance of going to find new things of
making observations feeding that to Jack
right having Jack iterate and test those
Concepts making sure they actually have
likes to them and then incor
incorporating in the system you know but
for me it’s like as a manager I’m
focused on trying to make sure that he
can do his job in growing and refining
the product as best as possible um while
I actually go and bring him new tools to
continue adding to this fire right so it
it’s never going to work if if one
person is kind of doing all the resource
gen and the idea gen right because then
they’re kind of operating in the Sila so
to us we found this perfect Middle
Ground of kind of mebe more of getting
you know the gatherer and him being more
of the cook um you
know definitely well and you guys kind
of came out like if my mind serves me
correctly like this whole craze around
AI was I think right around at the time
of the Miami Conference and stuff and so
obviously you guys were working you know
you know on this pitch like ahead ahead
of the entire like chat GPT craze and
stuff or you know just like everyone
kind of like looking to see how they can
integrate AI into their business model I
how have you seen like you know anima
specifically like how has AI helped your
business um and what what have you seen
other funds start doing it do you see a
lot of other funds starting to make this
shift into using like AI leverage uh
signals um or do you guys still feel
like you’re pretty much on the bleeding
edge of these things you know I think I
think AI is a term that’s that’s tossed
around pretty Loosely nowadays and I
think it’s used to gain popularity and
to gain investment like we use two we
use AI in two parts of of animus for the
signal gen the first is actually doing
the sentiment analysis which requires
actually understanding what the textual
analysis is and then creating signals
out of that that’s kind of like the
first and that’s not something we
created right like sentiment analysis is
an open source tool there’s plenty of
people that do it right but the idea is
that first we’re using sentiment
analysis which incorporates AI
techniques and then there’s actually a a
a component of the enous engine that is
taking in all the input features and
then using a neural network to then
forecast the next 24 to 48 hours of
Bitcoin prices right so that piece in it
of itself is you know as you can imagine
is another piece of AI That’s
Incorporated in our structures um in
terms of other people using AI again um
it’s not exactly something that you can
just take off the shelf and throw at a
problem and it and it helps change your
life right like there’s so much um
refinement and customizations that go
into the the tooling that we’ve built
that allows us to be able to utilize AI
in a very significant and value added
way right so I think at a high level I
think people are still kind of getting
their feet wit with understanding you
know what types of AIS are are out there
what types actually can help with
something like a Time series forecast
which is like price based forecasting
for Bitcoin um yeah I think it’s a
relatively unexplored domain compared to
what it will be but I still think that
people with the amount you know with the
correct intellectual capacity with the
amount of resources necessary to do that
are starting to take those Endeavors um
yeah so I think I think AI is going to
continue to be a hot Trend um and as I
and I I think it will continue to
dominate the investment management space
um I think the key there is having the
right people who know what to actually
do with these tools you know something
else that’s that’s worth mentioning is
on the Animus side we’re well aware that
an that AI as a whole is continuing to
progress at rapid rates right so the way
that we built animus is we built it it’s
essentially like a modular set of tools
where we’re actually able to incorporate
new AI techniques as they come available
to the market right because we don’t
want to be stuck or beholden to
something that we used in the past right
so we also are well aware that this
thing is changing and rapidly growing so
we need to be able to incorporate new
tools along the way But to answer your
question I absolutely think AI is going
to be a growing tool used and leveraged
in the world of cryptocurrency and
financial forecasting no doubt yeah
definitely well it feels like there’s
like new just new changes and
developments every day um so obviously
before like AI there’s a lot of like
retooling and like relooking at some of
the forecasts you guys have built
because you obviously want it to be as
close to the mark as possible when
you’re trying to predict markets how
would you say you know AI has adjusted
the need to like go in in and look at uh
some of the forecast you guys have built
and that sort of thing has it expedited
the process like what’s the big what’s
the big differentiator here um now that
you guys have like you know have this AI
tool like are you guys going in and
adjusting like the AI itself or is it
more so of the
forecast yeah I would say the biggest
adjustment that we’re making on a
regular basis is actually the amount of
data and what data sets we incorporating
for the AI to make correct inferences
right right AI model something to be
clear like you know for the crowd is an
AI is only as good as the model as the
data you feed it and more importantly
how you feed that information in it
right like I think we’ve probably all
use chat gbt once or twice and it and
the way you ask questions matters a lot
it’s not just about asking the question
right so you can kind of think about
that parallel in what we’re doing where
it’s not just a matter of throwing in an
Excel sheet and saying Hey how do I make
money out of this right right it’s it’s
cleaning it and processing it and
creating a problem and setting the right
targets and objectives for the AI to
actually solve you’re really looking for
right um and to in order to do that you
need to do a lot of research into what
your information said is best you know
is best buil to equip or to actually
inform right a lot of what we were doing
in the beginning times was just saying
hey based on this information should we
predicting should we be predicting
Bitcoin an hour in the future a day in
the future a week in the future a month
in the future that’s largely an artifact
of the data right so there’s kind of
this chicken and egg where you’re
constantly trying to figure out what
information is my is you know what is
what problem is my information best
suited to solve and then how do I
actually set it up and clean it up and
refine it and put it in the system in a
way that’s going to create True
Value so much trial and error I can
imagine like just constant like fail
fail fail until like okay this works
let’s do it this way and then you know
the next week goes it’s like all right
fail fail fail let’s this works let’s go
well that’s look I mean we’re we’ve
almost been doing this for seven years
now you know like and the first couple
were quite literally you know as you can
imagine failing and failing and figuring
it out and iterating but eventually you
make breakthroughs you take Concepts
that stick that’s the reason that we’re
going to do well as everyone always
looks at me go like aren’t you afraid
that all these these you know all these
competitors running the market and to be
honest with you as much as I think that
the competition is going to increase we
still have the benefit of surviving two
Market cycles and being able to
understand relationships and impacts
through those two Market Cycles that is
priceless no matter what people say
about you know we’ve we have simulations
that run the past 10 years being in
those things and those situations real
time and having kind of a little bit of
a balance between a data driven approach
and having a humanistic eye for like
what’s happened in the past and how to
use those things and leverage those
experiences um to me is priceless right
so it’s not just about having the right
information it’s about knowing what to
do with it and having experience with it
yeah I mean seven years is a whole lot
more than most players in the game can
say which is incredibly valuable you
know like experience you know almost
speaks for itself more than just having
like the best tools it’s like hey like
we’ve been doing this for a long time
like like you said like knowing what to
do with that information is uh
invaluable and so Having learned all
these lessons and stuff um I’m sure
anybody listening who is like thinking
about getting involved you know either
just in Bitcoin um or even like the
digital asset fund space what advice do
you have for these people yeah well I
would say the first
is don’t feel like you’re too late to
the game you know like I I think that
like a lot of people are afraid to kind
of roll their sleeves up because they’re
like oh I know someone that’s got in at
$1,000 and I got in $100 the price is
irrelevant we’re still on the prus of a
generational technology that will change
everything that we do um especially in
the financial sector so Now’s the Time
you know whenever it is to to get in and
trying to understand these things at the
ground level understand why there’s
value in Bitcoin um as a store of value
understand why blockchain as a whole
will will change a lot of the way that
these sectors do businesses right so to
me my my my biggest advice is zoom out
you know look at what’s happened don’t
think for a second that because you
think this arbitrary number is high now
that it won’t be way higher in the
future right you have to think about it
for like an adoption problem right we’re
still in the early Innings of a
multi-decade generational change um that
could be one of the biggest Advan to
society as like technology itself in my
opinion so to to tell you the truth like
my my true advice for people is don’t be
afraid to be late um because you’re
always afraid of being late then you
might actually be late right like get in
there and figure it out and start
learning about you know what these
Technologies do and I think what’s
something that’s really cool about
cryptocurrency is that we’ve kind of
been like siloed into this bowl of like
you know we’re like a niche market but
we also are a very openminded
accepting Community like if people want
to learn about what we’re doing like we
come out and tell them right so like
crypto is not a like you know heavily
guarded seer right like people love to
share our ideas and we like to talk in
circles we love to talk at conferences
so like get involved you know go talk to
people go find to like people that you
think are doing cool things and you know
go hear what they have to say um because
I’ve learned a lot just by like having
conversations over the last couple
months about what people are doing in
the space and to be honest with you it’s
it’s super it’s inspiring so yeah no
definitely uh I know you either you
utter the word Bitcoin uh everyone’s
like hey let’s start chatting to like
another bitcoiner or such right like
people are like let’s have a
conversation next thing you know you
look down at your watch it’s like two
hours have gone by you’re like oh my
gosh I can’t believe we’ve been just
chatting about Bitcoin for two hours
yeah and the other big thing too is like
not only are people willing to talk in
the space but people are very honest too
they’re very very honest and willing to
give you thoughts and opinions and um if
you’re the kind of person that’s like
willing to like take um that kind of
feedback which you guys obviously have
um I feel like you know some of the best
Lessons Learned are through those
conversations and such but um yeah no
Max this was a fantastic conversation um
you know super exciting to hear about
all the updates uh and catalst for
Success that animus has in front of them
for heading into the bull market um
before we break you know where you know
anybody listen to this any institutions
any individuals where can they learn
more about the fund and get in with you
yeah for sure appreciate it um so first
I mean feel free to check out our
website animist technologies.com you’ll
see me on there um feel free to reach
out and inquire about the fund um yeah I
would say that’s probably the best way
to do it I’m also available on LinkedIn
if people want to search my name um
you’ll see it you’ll see it there with
animous Technologies you know feel free
to reach out um I’d love to have
conversations with people in the crowd
on investing in the fund or if you just
want to talk crypto and AI in general
I’m happy to to have those conversations
awesome well thanks again Max um to our
listeners don’t forget to like subscribe
and comment if you haven’t already the
Bitcoin having is upon us and we’re
putting the best live stream on counting
down uh 21 blocks until the having you
don’t want to miss it so make sure to
like subscribe and comment cheers
everybody and I hope you have a great
day

In this episode, Maximilian Pace, co-founder and CEO of Animus Technologies, discusses his journey into Bitcoin and the founding of Animus. He shares how he first encountered Bitcoin through discussions with friends and the fascination it sparked in him. Maz explains how Animus was born out of his interest in using AI and data to forecast Bitcoin prices and his desire to provide professional trading strategies in the digital asset space. He also discusses the challenges and opportunities of participating in the Bitcoin Alpha Competition and working with Samara Alpha Management.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:05 Encountering Bitcoin and Starting Animus
07:58 Getting the Company Off the Ground
11:52 The Evolution of the Bitcoin Market
15:56 Bitcoin Alpha Competition and Working with Samara Alpha
24:08 Challenges and Adjustments in Implementing Investing Strategies
28:01 The Role of AI in Animus and the Industry
34:58 Advice for Getting Involved in Bitcoin and Digital Asset Funds
37:57 Conclusion and Contact Information

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Presented by Samara Alpha Management and Bitcoin Magazine Pro

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Learn more about Animus Technologies
👉 https://animus-technologies.com/

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