Crypto Investor Reveals His Top Investment Ideas

Crypto Investor Reveals His Top Investment Ideas

you’re starting to see ways in which
people are using crypto AI very
differently from chat GPT right I’ll
give you another example when you enter
a prompt into chat GPT right you say who
are the founding fathers there is a
two-page list of all the rules and
regulations it has to go through before
it gives you your answer right that list
is going to get long right it’s going to
get even longer if you go on a crypto AI
large language model you ask a question
you get a totally different answer
because there’s no
rules all right guys bang bang I’ve got
Tom here Tom artificial intelligence
seems to have stolen the spotlight from
crypto uh but now there’s an
intersection of AI crypto you guys are
making tons of Investments here helping
me understand like what is the
intersection between these two
technologies and why are you guys so
excited about some of the investments in
that
area yeah pomp it’s awesome to be here
man thanks for having me and uh it’s
always great to chat with you so I’m
really excited
I think just to back up I mean a lot of
the time when we invest we want a
Cornerstone or sort of a foundational
reason on why we’re interested in the
sector and and why we aren’t right the
thing about crypto aai that really drew
me in you know over a year ago was just
seeing how powerful chaty BT was right
you can enter in some text you get a
response it’s really good at predicting
the next word it gives you this feeling
of sentience this feeling of life right
and when you start to extrapolate that
and you start to figure out that hey
open AI has the lock on Hardware on
Talent they have the lead they have the
largest parameter models and you start
to look at anybody can start to build an
application on top of open AI right
there’s already millions of chaty BTS
all based on this single foundational
model that will touch billions of people
and it gets really scary because this
model is a black box and it’s private
and if they want to uh tweak the
parameters if they want to you know bias
against a certain group of people or a
certain technology or a president or
whatever they want to do that will then
flow through every single app built on
top and alter society and that
starts to get really scary right so the
crypto AI world is the complete opposite
extreme of that right it’s open models
it’s knowing the weights or keeping them
private but being able to validate
what’s going on right it’s being
transparent it’s being able to build an
entire world where it’s transparent and
we know exactly what’s going on with the
most powerful technology of Our
Generation and so how does this
technically work in terms of um you
there’s like open source what is the
difference between maybe just like plain
open source versus the intersection with
actual crypto blockchains and these
protocols yeah it I it’s a great
question crypto is the underlying
incentive mechanism for the entire AI or
crypto AI uh area to run right if you
start at the absolute bottom of the
stack you have meat space dpin projects
right projects like you know full
disclosure I’ll mention some we invested
in but projects like IET right 500,000
gpus connected around the world right
being able to do that and being able to
Cluster that to do that you need a token
right to incentivize people to bring on
their latent Hardware so you give them a
token and in return you get
decentralized training decentralized
inference whatever sort of you know uh
mechanism you’re looking for you can get
so at the end of the day the the tokens
are just incentive mechanisms for the uh
specific ai ai apps we can work all the
way up the stack too if we have time if
you’re
interested yeah I would love to hear
kind of um so the deep in space is
interesting but like when you start
thinking of these individual
Technologies where do you see um maybe
value acre that isn’t going to acrew
uh to you know the open AIS the
microsofts the Googles like one of the
things in AI that seems to be happening
is like the big winners of the past
decade are just having their advantages
and their Moes kind of extended right
they have the data they have the
distribution they have the engineers
they have the resources and so is it
something where like the intersection of
crypto and AI will allow for these new
upstarts to be able to potentially uh
disrupt some of those uh
incumbents yeah I mean phenomenal
question and and I love the the phrasing
and sort of how you’re looking at it on
a shortterm basis I think chat GPT
Facebook you know open AI meta Microsoft
I think they de facto have the winning
lead right meta has the most h100s in
history right um thank God that they
open sourced their their models right so
we could F tune and edit them right um
openi clearly has the lead and and GPT 5
will blow probably everything out of the
water this summer right but when you
start to look at a medium to longterm
sort of horizon right and you start to
Think Through um just the creative
nature of of Technologies it starts to
get a little worrisome and and starts to
lead into the crypto AI space because of
that right and I’ll give you I’ll give
you an example here if you’re a killer
engineer right you want to create a new
model and you work at open AI like good
luck right like they’re not going to let
you just you know edit their model
they’re not going to let you just have a
fi day on and be super creative and and
change whatever you want right if you
come over to crypto you can fine-tune
any model you want but in in the best
sense you can also get paid for it and
incentivize people to help you do that
creativity right and I’ll give you a
couple examples here my shell. is a
project we invested in and basically
they lower the barriers to entry to
create an AI app to zero right you log
on to their website you choose any
foundational model you want want right
uh closed Source open source doesn’t
matter right you add the data that you
want right let’s say all of pom’s
podcast throughout history right you
integrate it with telegram or Discord
and then you could add a crypto flywheel
to that uh AI app so that people could
own it it incentivizes people to use it
Etc right so in a matter of five minutes
you have an app that you otherwise could
have never built um that has an
incentive that’s Global and that you can
use um the same goes for building
foundational models the same goes for
building fine-tune models so I think
over the longest Arc crypto will have
the most creativity and the most shots
on goal on the AI space because of how
open it is and when we see um kind of
this approach I think it feels like one
it’s an approach to building kind of
Open Source uh the ability for anyone to
edit Etc is there also a different
technical stack as well that uh you know
maybe people that are kind of building
in this crypto world are building with
uh different uh blockchains protocols
databases uh you know uh scripting
languages like like what is the differen
is on the technical side yeah another
great question I mean generally to me it
seems like the creating is much the same
other than it being completely open and
having much different in incentive
mechanisms right so you can either you
know on the far left of the spectrum you
could build a foundational model right
that’s like what chatu BT is in the
middle you could fine-tune an existing
model right take a foundational model
like llama or whatever you’d like and
fine-tune that for your specific use
case or on the right side you know the
far right you have a model that already
exists you’re using it and it pulls in
real-time relevant data from the
internet right like what’s the eth price
what’s the Bitcoin price that’s all
real- time data you can’t get that out
of you know zeros and ones in the model
right so three different spectrums here
but when you add crypto into the mix
that whole value chain changes a lot
right and just to walk through an
example here if you want to train that
foundational model on the left right or
F tune an existing model right in that
middle you need a lot of data right or
very specific data and there’s a project
out there called getg grass. they have a
million maybe more at this point since
we’re recording a million downloads of a
Chrome extension that scrapes the
internet for specific data right it’s
insane it’s one of the biggest deepin
projects ever right helium had a million
iot nodes physical nodes I think over
the course of a year or two grass has
done it in a couple of months right it’s
it’s kind of insane but it’s software
what they do is they scrape the entire
internet’s web data historical and on a
go forward they segment that data into
folders that could be very specifically
used to train certain AI models right
and the obvious question is oh you know
can’t centralized companies just scrape
the internet the answer is kind of no
right because if if you’re scraping the
internet from a centralized data center
you immediately get blocked right they
know that this is one single IP address
rep pinging over and over they’ll give
you the wrong info they’ll give you a
flight price that’s an extra 50 bucks
because you live in New York right like
they’ll do all these things to mess with
you so you know grass is just one
example of augmenting that AI value
chain using crypto right and it is
pretty interesting when when you get
into it what about like monetization for
uh these obviously you know crypto one
of the of innovation has been around
economic incentives how do you feel um
that’s changing when it comes to
AI yeah it it’s tough right because
there there’s a lot of strong views on
how how different parts of this stack
make money but at the end of the day
people have to be paying for a service
that that’s actually useful right so
once consumers or applications on their
behalf are paying for these AI models
then I think value starts to flow
through the system right and there’s a
lot of people that you want to uh take
care of right like you want to give some
money to those those foundational models
right you want to give some money to the
people who provided the data right you
want to give money to the people who
labeled that data right label data to
train is is super important you want to
give money to the uh the coordination
mechanism like a a bit tensor right that
that made this possible um so there
there are a lot of ways that you want to
uh a lot of people you want to take care
of but crypto is one of the only places
where you can raise money so quickly for
a use case to have that creativity right
you could raise money for a foundational
model and everyone could own it right
that’s like a hat tip to to Prime
intellect and and aosh who have done
that uh or AOS has so far but it it is a
it is a complex value flow for sure now
what are some of the other projects that
you guys have invested in that you guys
are excited about or or you think uh
maybe when people understand how these
Technologies or products are working
they may better understand this
intersection of crypto and
AI yeah I mean one project that is is
pretty interesting that I think everyone
could sort of relate to is uh is test
machine right so so test machine. a you
sort of um you know how everyone waits
like six to eight months for a smart
contract audit and there’s bugs anyway
and everyone gets hacked uh these guys
built a proprietary algorithm for
literally just um hacking your smart
contracts so you you link your GitHub
you drop a file and Bam like this thing
goes to work trying to drain your tokens
right so it’s more of a developer use
case but it’s one that really kind of uh
makes sense and and really gets it the
other ones we’ve invested in that that
I’m pretty excited about are the
coordination networks right so bit
tensor worth you know 10 or 15 billion
dollars um I have my concerns but I
think it’s a phenomenal experiment and
you know Cornerstone of of the space but
there are other coordination networks
right there are other projects that are
the meeting point or the marketplace
between model creators and end users
right and those are like sentient uh
those are like Aur uh and others that
I’m I’m really excited about um I’m also
personally um not through the fun but
pretty excited about Morpheus which is a
pretty Cipher Punk version of um an AI
Network that uh has around 350 million
eth in its um Stak eth pool two weeks
into launching uh month and a half ago
which is kind of
ridiculous and what about from like a
user standpoint how many of the users of
these products or services are going to
realize they’re using crypto Endor AI
versus they’re just going to have a
product that like solves the problem or
does the job they
need I’m hoping that they never that
they never know right but it is sort of
interesting because you’re starting to
see ways in which people are using
crypto AI very differently from chat GPT
right I’ll give you another example when
you enter a prompt into chat EBT right
you say who are the founding fathers you
say you know tell me about Pal’s history
whatever you want to say there is a
two-page list of all the rules and
regulations it has to go through before
it gives you your answer right some of
them are fine like some of like be
divver you know don’t be racist like
things like that but as you and I both
know that list is going to get long
right it’s going to get even longer
there’ll be more restrictions there’ll
be more rules there’ll be more things
that can and can’t do right if you go on
a crypto AI large language model like
enqu like enq Ai and you ask a question
you get a totally different answer
because there’s no rules right there’s
no regulations right um so thinking
through the future of who de Ides what
those prompt guard rails are and what
they aren’t I have a funny feeling it’s
not going to go well so people are
already seeing the difference between
crypto Ai and normal
llms and when we start to see these uh
I’m going to call them crypto
entrepreneurs or or kind of crypto
developers um how many of them have uh
the technical skills to build the AI
side right like it almost feels like um
in the AI world there’s such uh
competition
for talent and these researchers and
people are just spending immense amounts
of money Etc and those researchers have
a specific skill set experience you know
technical ability Etc do people in the
crypto world have those skill sets and
vice versa like do the people in the AI
world that maybe like don’t know as much
about crypto um and what that really
begs the question of is like when you’re
evaluating a
team what are the you know is it like
hey we need some AI people we need some
crypto people or do you find like oh we
can find two or three engineers and they
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yeah no I mean it’s sort of like your
age- old battle against Wall Street
right it it’s very there’s a pretty big
riff between crypto people and AI people
right but if you talk to the AI people
who have come over to crypto it is
hilarious and ironic how much they agree
on things right like so once you’re able
to convince them it it goes a long way
and there there’s obviously more crypto
people crypto AI people than there are
AI crypto people right now but if you’re
able to find a team that has the AI part
in it you know you start to get blown
away right um one great example of that
is uh new research right n us they’re
they built a bit tensor subnet these are
just traditional a well they’re
untraditional how good they are but
they’re AI folks that met together on a
Discord and have now built an incredible
project as as AI people right um and
it’s crazy how fast AI people could run
in crypto because these folks uh ran
into an issue right they saw hugging
face which is the largest traditional
website for open source models right
there’s half a million models on there
you can just take whichever one you want
use it and you know have fun but the
leaderboard for which model is good and
bad is flawed right you you can all the
specifics on how to gain that
leaderboard are known right so people
just make models over fit to the the
leaderboard and they’re not commercially
viable right the people start to take
those models and deploy them on bit
tensor for different uh use cases right
but it sucked because they’re not
commercially viable models these guys at
new created a subnet so one of the bit
tensor sort of networks to basically
test any model against realtime
synthetic data in real time so you don’t
know what the data is you don’t know
what the parameters are going to be in
real time but hey submit your model will
give you a ranking that’s actually real
right so it’s crazy when a group of AI
people come to crypto and could do
things like that in such a short amount
of time because it just speaks to like
no barriers to entry real money flow and
I’m sure they’re making a ton of money
on the town incentives just from just
from that got it and then what are the
areas that maybe you all are looking for
opportunities but you haven’t yet found
a company um you know or kind of like
almost like a request for startup if you
will yeah um I’m
really scared and looking for a a really
good proof of personhood project uh
World coin’s obviously done really well
but just massive FTV and and sort of
looking for some Alternatives um it’s
already pretty clear you can’t tell what
is real or or what is not real on the
internet um that’s only going to get way
worse uh so I think finding something
like that is is hard uh even if you find
something it still gets really hard
right like if
trump. eth you know signs or or stamps a
video that he recorded something you
know that that’s great right but how do
we know that he owns trump. eth right
like so it gets really tough but I’m
really looking forward to some sort of
proof of personhood um or some way to
validate that our our world is is real
before it slips away so how do you
balance like in that world right if you
were to go talk to the critics of world
coin as an example they’ like oh my God
this is like a surveillance tool you
could put your Biometrics all this kind
of stuff like is there a world where we
can do proof of personhood uh without
giving up some of that information or or
like how are you all thinking about
maybe what the right solution there
could be yeah I mean I think the world
coin team gets gets some flak from just
being so ahead of their time right it’s
it’s usually hard to understand projects
that sort of visionary that this early
on um they’ve you know begun or started
or or almost done open sourcing their
their stack right they’re using
really intense CK technology to make
sure that you know your data isn’t being
uh released right but you know you have
to find an orb by you right you have to
scan your eye um culturally people
probably longtail people are not going
to be okay with that um and there’s also
like a lot of weird stuff going on right
like people scanning their eye and then
selling their identity right like you
know it’s going to be hard to get your
identity back after you after you sell
it but uh it does get a little
wacky and then what are the areas that
maybe are too hyped up uh people are too
excited about when it comes to you know
kind of AI and crypto but you guys are
maybe not as excited or or think that uh
it may not actually acrew as much value
as people
think um I I’ve had I’ve had public
concerns on on bit tenser for for quite
a while um I think it’s again like
Cornerstone crypto AI project uh it it
is attracting phenomenal Builders but
there are some concerns right like
massively overpaying for for subnets is
is one right like you don’t get that
money back um if people are are starting
to to milk the network for for some
reason um the incentive flow is also
currently sort of arbitrary right like
you know those who have a large stake
decide where the towel flows and then
within a subnet they decide where it
flows right so it is sort of a bit of a
more manual process it’ll definitely
improve but I think that um we need to
be a little bit more critical of of
projects earlier on because as you and I
both know Ai and especially Krypto AI
will hit a low right it will go through
a bare market and people are going to
have to build and really deliver and I
don’t think we’re anywhere you know near
that bare market yet but I think people
should realize that it will come people
will get pretty down on the space until
we have new use cases and and then as we
know it’ll it’ll pop up once again and
when we see uh kind of uh Deli investing
in this space should we expect um there
to be faster liquidity right because
there’s kind of crypto involved than
maybe a traditional um venture capital
investment should we expect there to be
more asymmetry uh than maybe a
traditional Venture investment like like
why is the uh investment component of it
so interesting you guys could easily
just say hey we think that space is
going obviously become popular uh you
know we pay attention to the market uh
sounds interesting but the fact you guys
are actually deploying Capital making a
lot of Investments here it is there
structural things that you think the the
crypto component being added to AI uh
makes it more attractive from an
investment standpoint yeah absolutely um
I mean first and foremost there just
aren’t that many liquid or liquid
options right now right other than bit
tensor and and a bunch of meme coins and
stuff like that there there really
aren’t a a lot of good liquid plays
right there bit tensor is pretty huge
Olas is pretty huge worldcoin is already
pretty big um so there is like some
Market validation there but a lot of the
best deals are are currently private um
but yeah I mean just the crypto
incentive to the entire stack here is
just you know it’s just really
interesting right like allowing like it
just again zooming back out to that
foundational like first principles level
like giving this stack
ownership control and aay in the most
powerful technology of Our Generation
which is AI is the only way that this
can ever be unbiased at scale and
legitimate right like I don’t think open
AI ever open sources their stack um I
think this is the only way that we’re
going to be able to do it do you ever
consider um AI is more powerful than
crypto and kind of blockchains and
protocols or do you think that crypto
blockchains and protocols are more
powerful than
AI it’s a great question I I generally
view them as extremely complimentary
right I think that if we fast forward to
an AGI they’re obviously not opening a
Chase bank account right they’re not you
know they’re not they’re never going to
send an AGI will never send a Fed wire
other than convincing a human to do it
for for some reason right the path of
least resistance is for them to use
crypto right to acove value for whatever
their use case is and to build
communities around itself um in crypto
and eventually I think there will be a
quote team that develops a crypto
project and Acres a lot of value and we
later figure out that it is some sort of
AI right um you know maybe we’ll start
to see something like that soon do you
think we’re close to
AGI
um I yeah I I would as a nontechnical
I person I I have a less than informed
view than a lot other people but I think
that we are closer than people think um
I think the open AI drama months ago uh
where the team and went kind of crazy
and just seeing the lawsuit from musk
and and that Discovery uh just seeing
the co-founders freak out over over what
they built I definitely think we’re
closer than than people
think and what changes in the world like
one of the things I’ve always thought is
uh this idea of U machine to machine
transactions like obviously they’re not
going to you know use two-day settlement
time or wires uh to send economic value
back and forth so like the the quote
unquote intersection right now um of AI
and crypto is it like they both enable
each other and almost like it’s like 1
plus one equals 5 uh type
scenario yeah no absolutely I mean it’s
it’s just the the Synergy will be crazy
and sorry your question was on machine
to machine stuff right yes yeah
absolutely I mean I think it’s a little
bit of a ways out before we have AIS
just interacting uh with AIS directly
but it’s definitely going to happen um
it it’s just like when you have you know
back to our earlier example like
fine-tuning that specific use case right
like I think we get a world where
there’s millions of Highly specific AI
models that don’t have to generalize
about the world and these models are
working together with each other
directly right like one will handle your
Unis swap liquidity provision if we’re
still doing that in a couple years um
and one will handle uh your trade on cow
Swap and then one will handle you know
taking out that loan on a for you right
and and they’ll all work together sort
of symbiotically and the only thing
you’ll do is enter your intent or or
your desire in an LM like you do on
Gemini right like hey I want to trade
eth for usdc and I want to take out a
loan on a and borrow maker right like
and you’ll see like a simulated flow
you’ll hit go and that’ll go out to a
network of AI solvers human or or
machine got it and then in terms of um
like so much data being available in the
blockchain and crypto World it feels
like AI is all about data uh it may not
be proprietary data because it’s on
these public ledgers but do you guys see
any opportunities there or have you seen
anyone really trying to figure out like
what to do with all this data and
overlay it with
AI yeah absolutely I mean grass is one
of the best examples of that just taking
like massive amounts of data um public
and and use it to train um specific
models but yeah the the data side is
interesting
because models have grown in parab count
right they’ve grown in massive size
right but they haven’t the data used to
train those models uh could be argued is
not grow and commencer with the the
parameter count right and so when you
start to get to
really like Chad was trained on like
Reddit data right and stuff like that
like um and obviously much more data but
if you want to train a a really good
model it doesn’t have to have this
massive parameter count anymore right it
could be five or 10 gigabytes in size
right like the my shell. a team just
proved that last night right they they
they trained a model with $100,000
that’s more performant than meta’s small
model right 8 gab model versus 7 gab
model right that’s crazy um and it’s
even cheaper to to fine-tune that so
yeah you don’t need these crazy Earth
shattering data center models anymore
you just need to your point that highly
specific data to to train it got it and
then when um when you guys are making
these Investments like what are some of
the uh technical checklist or like
criteria that you guys go through to to
evaluate these opportunities right so
like we’ve talked about where are the
segments that you’re interested in we’ve
talked about kind of the team but are
there other things that as part of the
diligence process that you’re really
paying attention
to yeah I mean the team is the team is
really big right you need a team that
both deeply understands Ai and a team
that is not a stranger to crypto right
as we both know the worst thing in the
world would be this killer team that you
know fails because they don’t understand
the token aspects the community building
aspects the open source nature of all of
this like that uh that always sucks
right so the team is is really important
the other one is sort of like a crazy
understanding of of why their project uh
works really well and a crazy energy
around it right like when we met the
light works founder Gabe who did data
labeling who does d uh data labeling his
Mastery of just the whole process was
was crazy right so definitely want that
that sort of Mastery um and we also just
want like a first principal
understanding of of why crypto and AI
right like why does this actually uh
need this and you know there are enough
risks and Venture uh we want to make
sure that we at least have a good good
foundation on why they’re building what
they’re
building and when you think about Deli
today help us understand a little bit
more just in terms of uh you guys have
the research you have the investing
you’ve got Labs like what what are some
of the updates in terms of uh you know
team size what you guys are doing how
things are going yeah I I mean pomp
you’re one of the people that helped us
out the ear and we’re we’re super happy
to have you as part of Deli research
right on that cap table um annoying you
early on was was probably one of the
best things I ever did so really
appreciate you you being a part of it um
and helping out uh yeah we have three
three entities right we have a research
uh division which covers cide research
talking about uh the market uh projects
things like that we have the ventures
division where we’re investing um our
money into projects that we’re really
big on and then the labs division would
which sort of incubates from the uh from
the ground up so uh yeah dozens and
dozens of people across these different
entities uh and we’re really excited to
uh to have the bull market back in full
swing yeah and then um on the investing
side uh like what are the other things
that you’re investing in outside of AI
and
crypto yeah no I I’m glad you asked I
mean we have a full gaming team that’s
that’s super super active um my partner
Yan and piers and and Jeremy you know
brush that that area as well uh Yan also
spans Defi and other things there uh so
we have a pretty active defi side um our
infer team is also uh very active uh so
we made sort of foundational investments
in Celestia and igen lay and and others
um John girl who who’s at Deli sort of
leads a lot of that stuff for us as well
so uh I hope I’m not forgetting anybody
but yeah we’re we’ve been very active
across uh those
spectrums and then maybe my last
question is um for this bull market uh
are you guys investing in crypto and AI
for this Market or sometimes in crypto
people will do is they’ll make
investments today and they know that
it’s you know four to five years away
and so it’s actually like you’re almost
investing for the next cycle how do you
guys think about uh you know the length
of time it will take to build this stuff
out and then also uh when you guys can
realize you know economic gain on the
Investments that you’re making yeah now
I mean it’s it’s tough right it it is
sort of uh sometimes that’s risk that
it’s really hard to to figure out right
like I’m pretty sure that most of these
Investments are for next cycle right and
generally you want to invest in the bare
Market uh when everything’s boring and
there’s not taus and the vals are great
but you know you can’t have your cake
and eat it too right AI crypto AI
happening during a bull market so it is
what it is but um I I think most of
these will be
next cycle Investments right and I’m
trying to ins like within Deli that
obviously this is the most foundational
technology linked with the most powerful
uh financial application ever which is
crypto but look there will be slowdowns
in this stuff right we’re in the hype
right now but understand there will be
slowdowns there will be times when these
teams have to build in the dark for a
while but next cycle um and hopefully
this cycle I think these projects will
will really deliver that makes sense to
me where can we send people to find you
on the internet or learn more about
Deli uh Deli digital. and sha c119 on on
Twitter and P thanks so much for having
me man you run one of the best podcasts
in the space and it’s always super
energetic really appreciate it I
appreciate you coming on and teaching me
I learned something today I learned
something every single time we talk so I
appreciate it very much by man talk to
you soon f

Tom Shaughnessy is the Co-Founder of Delphi Digital and Founding Partner at Delphi Ventures. In this conversation, we talk about the intersection between AI & crypto, OpenAI & ChatGPT, open-source, where value is accruing, monetization, risks, and what he Is doing at Delphi.

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Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/

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