Bitcoin Crashes: How Low Can It Get? This Is The Floor | Jake Boyle

Bitcoin Crashes: How Low Can It Get? This Is The Floor | Jake Boyle

risk assets are selling off on Tuesday
April the 30th ahead of this week’s
Federal Reserve meeting uh Bitcoin is
taking the charge on this decline
Bitcoin is currently down about 4% on
the day as we speak today in tray what
is going on bitcoin has not had a very
good month we’re going to be talking
about what’s next with our next guest
who’s an expert on bitcoin and
blockchain he is Jake Bole CCO of Caleb
and brown will be talking about Caleb
and brown and their projects as well
welcome to the show Jake thanks for
having me David it’s good to be here
Jake Bitcoin has had the worst month
since 2022 bare Market what is going on
is this the end of the bull rally that
we’ve seen over the last year and a half
look the what we find David is that with
investors when things are looking good
everyone’s positive and the second that
things turn South it’s Armageddon end of
the world the reality is when you zoom
out a little bit Bitcoin has had it’s
worth month in quite a while after
having several of its best months in
quite a while and the other thing we
need to remember is this is a post
Haring environment it’s not uncommon for
coin to have these drawbacks after
reaching all-time highs The Narrative is
playing out as many would have predicted
in many senses if you take a look at uh
the historical charts so you brought up
history every single time in the past
couple of Cycles when Bitcoin has hit a
new all-time high it’s had a tendency to
correct about 40 50% on some occasions
we haven’t seen that yet is this the
beginning of this kind of decline up to
about 40% uh on my end I don’t think
we’ll see a 40% decline the rationale
behind that being this is the first
Market that Bitcoin has been in where we
have had the degree of institutional
support behind it so whilst history
sometimes has a a tendency to repeat
itself what’s critical to note is that
the variables and the landscape is
different Bitcoin volumes this Haring
are not the same as they were the last
or the one before that and we certainly
don’t have the ETF support which gives
us that kind of that optimism at a
larger scale so I think we’ll have our
draw Downs which we’ve had but I’m more
optimistic than I was say last cycle
round and you brought up post having um
as a kind of error what does that mean
for the Bitcoin price when you’re
talking about what comes after the
having historically how has Bitcoin
performed post having yeah so on our end
we we trade hundreds of different coins
for clients around the world so we’ve
always got a an insight into what client
behavior and sentiment really is
particularly for the higher net worth
clients in the space what we’ve seen
cycle after cycle is Bitcoin reaches
these highs life is perfect for everyone
there’s a huge correction and everyone
freaks out a lot of the for lack of a
better word dumb money leaves the market
and a lot of the smart money gradually
accumulates and has more of a longer
Outlook a long-term investment thesis uh
and when we support this thesis we often
find Bitcoin will rally again it tends
to Rally again usually it happens about
a year after the harving and then it
hits new highs entirely after having
that sustaining a drawback we then see
that other altcoins Blue Chip altcoins
if you will tend to absorb some volume
and start to perform quite well ethereum
most notably which categorically hasn’t
really done that yet it’s been
drastically outperformed by Bitcoin and
then of course uh the the final stage
which we may see potentially later on is
when the alt Market gets a lot of new
capital inflows and performs very well
so I don’t think we’re going to be that
drastically different to any other cycle
I just think it’s easier to talk about
history because there’s no emotion
involved but when you’re in the market
yourself it’s it’s a very different
story Jake let’s talk about uh the other
cryptos and then finish off on bitcoin
the altcoin market has in many regards
somewhat lagged behind Bitcoin initially
and then we’ve seen an altcoin explosion
with the meme coins So based on your
client interest where are they
positioned what are they most interested
in right now the Bitcoin Market or the
altcoins great question uh it’s a
combination of both and a lot of our
clients they they recognize that the
narratives in the industry change and
you can’t be emotionally tied to any of
your Investments and we’ve seen people
been burned when they try to do that you
don’t want to hold an altcoin for
multiple years in a row what we’ found
recently is there has been a lot of mem
coin hysteria and we on our side have
seen a drastic increase in transactional
volume in a lot of the more notable meme
coins now as much as that might you know
keep a traditional investor up at night
and give them a brain aneurism the
reality is that clients follow these
narratives and they want to capitalize
on these quick wins what we have seen
though is a lot of our clients have
rolled a lot of those meme coin
speculative gains into more sustainable
long-term assets and that’s where
Bitcoin does always tend to find itself
at home Bitcoin dominance is currently
at
55% up tremendously since uh the
beginning of 2022 which was at 41%
basically all this means is that Bitcoin
now occupies more than half of the total
crypto market cap uh do you think this
dominance will continue Rising I think
the dominance still has a bit left in it
I think it will continue to rise over
the course of the year as Bitcoin
recovers uh from this selloff which I
don’t think is going to sustain itself
for too too long once it recovers from
that selloff I think we will see history
repeat itself I think that ethereum will
start to absorb a lot of dominance and
the alt sector will increase however
given how much institutional support
surrounds Bitcoin in this present time
in the market which we did not see four
years ago eight years ago or anything
like that I do think Bitcoin dominance
will stay particularly high up
throughout the years to come all right
well nobody knows the future exactly but
I would like to talk about price levels
with you um you have a unique insight as
to what clients or retail investors
actually are interested in because you
work in that field and we’ll talking
about we’ll talk about Caleb and brown
in just a bit but have your clients told
you or have indicated to you at what
price level Bitcoin for Bitcoin they
would get in in other words if Bitcoin
Falls another $10,000 everybody will
rush into buy is there such a price
level for you yeah definitely is we find
that um most like most investors people
have these psychological numbers that
they work with round numbers if you will
so a lot of people want to one day sell
their Bitcoin for
$100,000 and a lot of clients right now
have layered limit orders around the 60
55k range so the general consensus on
our end is most of our clients are
expecting and have been expecting this
sell off from the 70k highs but they’re
not putting in limit orders at 30k as an
example it’s healthy 60k kind of range
and a lot of which have actually hit
overnight in that case so what what is
the floor for you you think in terms of
we have limit orders at practically
every price for every coin you can
imagine sure uh but generally speaking
the majority of the volume is tied
around 55 to $60,000 right now on our
end very interesting and uh what about
the upside have you have you heard um
any predictions on what could be a
reasonable uh yearend Target I’ll give
you some examples I mean uh Standard
Charter Bank upgraded their forecast to
$150,000 by the end of the year um a few
other notable institutions as well have
been very bullish this are mainstream
Wall Street institutions as well it’s
not just you know retail investors
making projections it’s large
institutional investors being very
bullish where do you
stand yeah I’m I certainly agree with
those claims uh I’m I’m personally very
bullish I’ve been full-time in the
market since 2011 and uh my conviction
has not changed all throughout I think
that what happens is we have these
psychological numbers and once we break
through those prices we we unlock a
whole new territory of price Discovery
for the asset class now we’ve seen that
time and time again with Bitcoin it was
$20,000 for a while a lot of people
watching will remember $20,000 Bitcoin
was there were memes about it everyone
was talking about the day we’ll break it
and then the day we broke it later that
Year we We more than doubled it and it
seems so seamless and now $20,000
Bitcoin seems like a hell we can’t even
imagine so on that note I think we’ll
smash through $100,000 I think there’ll
be a lot of selloff around that point
it’s a psychological number but I can
see us reaching
$150,000 uh not right away but over a
year or two to come well why do you
think Bitcoin has had a hard time
sustaining above $70,000 the price has
breached above $70,000 on a few few days
a few occasions but it wasn’t a
sustained momentum what what’s up with
that yeah no it’s a great question I
think that a few things 2024 has been
such a fantastic here the news headlines
for Bitcoin have been unsustainably
positive we do need to see a correction
in that and the ETF hysteria you know
the classic buy the rumor sell the news
it comes out we get those inflows and at
some point profit taking does become a
subject that people will consider the
other thing we need to realize is and
you know we need to drop our biases here
as cryptocurrency investors
cryptocurrency is a high-risk asset
class that’s just a fact of the matter
and in times of geopolitical uncertainty
or broader economic uncertainty
particularly in the states which drives
most volume here the reality is we will
see a s a selloff and we’ve seen that if
investors have made a fantastic profit
we’re around tax time in the US too
where people have got to harvest some of
gains Harvest some losses move assets
around it’s natural that we’ll see that
consequential draw down overall then
what are you looking forward to in terms
of use cases for U blockchain and
cryptocurrencies that’s that’s an
awesome question I think one thing
people don’t talk about as much these
days is just the the defi sector as a
whole I think that we’ve seen a lot of
collapse over the last few years in
centralized lending platforms one thing
we need to remember is a lot of
decentralized platforms remained
unharmed throughout the whole FTX Saga
and I think that as the industry evolves
decentralized platforms and that PTO
peer trust will become another driving
narrative in the space uh gaming is
another sector that our clients are
obsessed with how gaming and blockchain
integration can help with that that new
age of how people uh interact with
another using better technology sources
and then of course most critically than
anything perhaps is really the use case
of Bitcoin in and of itself now a store
of value seems to be the narrative
that’s driven the last few years of
growth beyond that in terms of
day-to-day transactional adoption
whether that’s Bitcoin whether that’s
other cryptocurrencies whether stable
coins see a new age and that becomes the
Talk of the Town well there all the kind
of things that I’m excited about and
some of them will come to fruition and
some of them won’t and then of course
there’ll be new narratives that come
along the way too I spoke to a Trader
recently who prefers the altcoins uh
specifically a few projects in the
altcoin market and he favors those
particular projects over Bitcoin Because
he believes that crypto for him is a
technology play it’s not a money play he
thinks that Bitcoin is in his words the
AOL of the crypto space it was the first
of its kind now it’s old and outdated
and there’s a lot of other uh protocols
out there that can do what Bitcoin was
designed to do which was a peer-to-peer
system much better and faster and more
efficiently so Bitcoin is just outdated
Tech he’s not in that space what do you
stand on this debate yeah I mean look
everyone’s going to have their opinion
on bitcoin and particularly in times
like this look there is a lot of value
in other altcoins and I’m sure he has
some great cases of altcoins that are
solving tremendous problems in the
ecosystem when it comes to bitcoin
specifically I think it’s pretty
critical to note that Bitcoin right now
is in a difficult spot because of its
price action but also because the
reality is that the block reward is
hared which from an infrastructure
standpoint means that the scalability of
Bitcoin is largely dependent on its
positive price action um and if it’s not
dependent on that then we need to have
greater Energy Efficiency and
technological efficiency for those
mining Bitcoin so right now Bitcoin is
really being put to the question so
naturally a lot of conversations will
come about saying oh but ethereum
provides this and salana provides this
and every other altcoin will come to the
table what’s critical to noce that all
asset classes and all Innovations over
time have to go through periods of being
tested they have to have these
constraints and over time these things
improve and there’s room for several
winning uh Assets in the crypto space to
provide value not just Bitcoin they
might just be solving different problems
that’s all uh one of the common
misconception since you brought up the
having price was that because miners now
have a higher cost to mine post having
because the block reward is reduced by
half uh if more miners come offline
because they couldn’t sustain their
economics or whatever issue may be we
could get fewer supply of Bitcoin that’s
a misconception can you address that
yeah so look supply and demand
principles impact Bitcoin in a in a very
rudimentary sense at the end of the day
we have uh an increased a supply that
enters the market uh what miners do with
the Bitcoin that they have mined uh
whether they’re longing those positions
or selling them off that’s an
everchanging attitude these are large
corporations typically unless you’re the
one individual who managed to on his own
mine win an entire block the other day
which is a cool story but but
fundamentally we have uh a ratio of new
Bitcoin entering the market relative to
bitcoin which is bought up by ETFs that
over 2024 has sustained a lot of
optimism and now that might be changing
but these are just the natural things
that occur in a market cycle like this
with Supply demand economics now uh what
about the argument that Bitcoin is a
store of value now we go back to the
debate of what to do with Bitcoin or why
one should invest in Bitcoin so if one
doesn’t believe that Bitcoin is a
technology play then could one use
Bitcoin as a form of money a form of
savings a form of wealth preservation
does that make sense to you Jake for
sure I mean the Fantastic thing with
Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies is that
there’s a real sense of fiscal Liberty
that you have there the way that you can
own and move these assets is like
nothing else we’re not sending wire
transfers across the world with
exorbitant fees I can send you Bitcoin
right now David and and then you can
have your thesis on what you want to do
with it and that’s what we love with our
business our job is just to empower
people in whatever their investment
thesis is and give them the security and
support to work throughout a a rather
choppy n asset class now we have tons of
clients who say Jake I just want to hold
Bitcoin the same way I hold my gold I
see it as a digital gold that’s a
narrative that all of us have heard
several times now for those investors
that strategy has worked out well
because historically holding Bitcoin for
long durations of time as we know
performs exceptionally well in saying
that we work with clients who operate
businesses that actually accept send and
receive cryptocurrency as a means of
payments and they have Bitcoin often as
one of their preferred currencies we
have seen a steep rise in stablecoin
adoption in that sense ethereum salana
notably also take up a lot of that but I
think at the end of the day as long
these assets will set out to solve
certain problems if the investors and
the consumers find that it solves
alternative problems to what the
original white paper may have laid out I
don’t think that’s inherently bad what
is the rough breakdown of uh of let’s
say Bitcoin versus stable coins in the
form of payment like how many roughly
how many people use Bitcoins versus how
many people use stable coins for their
B2B transactions well I don’t have the
data collectively on it internally what
we see as a business is that there is a
higher percentage of clients who make
business settlements in stable coins
Asos I didn’t mean the exact number I
just meant like you know which one is
popular or more widely adopted as a form
of payment yes on the ethereum chain
usdc and tether okay uh and that’s
probably because of the inherently lower
price volatility I’m
guessing yeah correct if you’re
operating a business we can’t be seeing
the draw Downs on the underlying asset
as we’ve seen today Michael sailor uh
chairman of micro strategy now made this
tweet uh not too long ago now as you
know in April micro strategy added
another 122 Bitcoin uh for about $7.8
million it now holds roughly 214,000
Bitcoins Michael CA also encouraged
other companies to hold Bitcoin to
booster company valuations citing micro
strategy as an example of one such
company that has you know more than gain
significantly in their valuations
because of bitcoin’s price action do you
think this is a good strategy for some
companies to hold Bitcoin on their books
and their
treasuries no I’m sure that all crypto
investors would would welcome all these
companies to buy up the market for us
look I think that a lot of these
companies particularly in the last few
years is postco pandemic environment um
the economic principles that we used to
govern ourselves by have really been
challenged leaving cash in the bank and
relying on you know bonds and and
typical financial instruments to
generate a return they’ve been
challenged we’ve seen banking collapse
once again over the last two years we’ve
seen centralized lenders fall the
reality is that uh we’re in a new age
and businesses and and CEOs and the
likes need to be more Innovative and
open-minded to different ways that they
can secure their balance sheet and what
we’ve found is that Michael saor is
really led the way there and several
other companies have followed whether
that meets the the investment thesis of
that company whether that company is a
bit dated in their ways we will see but
I do think principally it’s something
that should be considered for sure okay
and in terms of uh which areas in the
world are adopting cryptos the fastest
Caleb and brown is well positioned to
answer this question because you have
clients all over the world which areas
are you seeing the fastest crypto
adoption based on just your observations
and your data yeah so on our end we’re
we’re cryptocurrency brokerage so we use
a traditional broker service to help
Empower people who want to invest in the
cryptocurrency space yes so as a result
of that we’ve got tens and tens of
thousands of clients globally all around
the world what we find is the vast
majority of our clients have actually
who have liked us service are in the
baby boomer generation um the baby
boomer generation in the US is about 50%
of the nation’s wealth which is a
completely it’s a disproportionate
amount of wealth concentration we have
actually found a lot of success in
empowering that investor class which
otherwise has not really been that
interested in cryptocurrency and what
we’ve found is they’ve been able to find
utility in the assets they’ve been able
to find investment rationality to
diversify their uh broader investments
in cryptocurrency and through that um
they’ve been able to really participate
in this new age so on our end we also
work with businesses who transact and
use cryptocurrency for settlements I
would say that a lot of areas of Asia
areas like Singapore and the likes have
been really quite impressive with how
Innovative they’ve been Europe has also
been fantastic and of course as a local
Australian business numerous Australian
businesses cryptocurrency related or not
have engaged our services to buy and
sell in the space so this is something
that haven’t seen in Prior years and
we’ve seen tremendous growth just from
2023 to 2024 in this kind of innovative
adoption what’s holding the us back for
being a leader in crypto adoption is it
regulation is it lack of Interest all of
the
above all of the above I think you can
form an argument for all of those points
uh in saying that though I don’t think
we should um a lot of people say oh the
US is lacking when it comes to
cryptocurrency Innovation I think that a
lot of that might be due to the major
headlines some of the the one liners
that you hear from people in politics
and so forth might make it seem like the
US is drastically behind other areas of
the world I would say on our end we we
don’t really see it that way you know
we’ve got a lot of Heroes if you will in
the cryptocurrency spe um sector which
are born in the US like Brian Armstrong
is a great Pioneer of the industry um
since giving out small Bitcoin handouts
a decade ago at a conference these are
great success stories and the leaders of
this next bull market that we’re
currently in a lot of them are us local
businesses uh and Asia and Europe
Australia and the likes we’ll challenge
that and we’ll we’ll try and do our bit
too uh but I certainly don’t doubt the
US for a second do you think that uh
with the regulatory crackdowns on
cryptocurrency firms in the US a lot of
us firms will move abroad there’s a
there’s a probability of that uh I think
that I mentioned Brian Armstrong before
and I believe he made some commentary
about a year ago on what is to happen to
coinbase if these crackdowns and uh this
this Wich if you will continues I think
that might set precedent to be honest I
think a lot of these things really come
down to a select few multi-billion
dollar companies if they decide to move
offshore and they they will start to set
the wheels in motion and the smaller
businesses tend to piggyback on the
policies processes and actions of the
bigger businesses so I think we’ll see a
lot of that over the course of 2024 and
we’ll see how we go well there’s Heroes
there’s villains there’s everyone in
between in the crypto space um Sam bman
freed who’s now in jail you could you
know one could argue he could fit into
either category uh but one can not also
deny that post FTX and Celsius a lot of
regulatory um attention has been placed
on the crypto sector but not just that
Jake a lot of retail clients are now
skeptical of putting their money in
crypto brokerages like yourself can you
convince the public that not everyone is
like FTX what separates an FTX from a
legitimate company how can we tell yeah
for sure that’s a very good question and
you know on my comments before about the
heroes in the US you’re completely
correct we have the villains the best
and the worst are in the same ecosystem
here now with respect to your question
on how do you know who to trust um track
record is definitely something that
every industry sees so for Caleb and
brown we started in 2016 and a quick
Google will see that we’re we’re flooded
with fstar reviews on every format
beyond that you look at the
infrastructure and the reality of
working with a company now if I invest
with a company and I want to get a
withdrawal and I can’t withdraw coins
and I have to Lodge a support ticket
personally that’s not going to empower
me to invest particularly large amounts
in that platform so what we’ve done from
day Zero is calib BR was born on the
basis of a whole bunch of us in our own
rights having so many friends and family
members saying Hey Jake can you just buy
us Bitcoin for us because it’s too hard
to buy it myself and then through that
we’ve just extended that that ethos of
helping the local community we’ve just
extended that at scale um to having tens
of thousands of clients now so on our
end when someone deposits or withdraws
from us it’s 24/7 customer support
that’s what we obsess over so at no
point in time is no one picking up the
phone replying to your email or willing
to meet you in person to discuss these
matters and I think if investors look at
platforms and they look at things can I
withdraw off this platform are there
withdrawal minimums are we their
withdrawal maximums these are the kind
of questions you want to ask and you
want to ask these questions before you
engage with these businesses people
neglected that over the last few years
when we were in bull market hissteria
and regrettably a lot of people now wish
that they read the fine print on some of
these platforms that they used or
realize that they had to do enhanced kyc
to get that larger withdrawal which they
now can’t and now that exchange is going
bust So reading the fine print is
certainly what we’re seeing more and
more these days and we’re encouraging
that well how do we know that um let’s
just take Caleb Brown for example you’re
not using your the client’s money to
fund um uh an an offshoot hedge fund run
by your girlfriend yeah no it’s a very
good question it’s a question that we
didn’t think people would be asking up
until recent years what’s really
Critical with CNB our business is we put
our money where our mouth is if a client
says Hey Jake I’m at the golf course I
need to capture this volatility I’m
sending you a wire of $100,000 and I
want to buy the following 10 coins we
actually execute the order of those
coins before the funds settle in our
bank account so the way that we work
with clients is we put our own Capital
at stake and the clients are effectively
paying us back after we’ve already made
the purchase and those funds arrive and
in the case of that example which
happens every day clients can already
have their addresses whitelisted their
withdrawals are ready to go so the
second those funds clear those coins go
out and we both enjoy our day so the
client is not exposed in that sense it’s
actually Caleb and brown who is the one
who could be scammed in that example
there if if everybody every client at
Caleb and brown wants to withdraw at the
same time would there be enough Reserve
to facilitate that yes absolutely and as
I mentioned we’ve operated since 2016 so
we’ve seen plenty bare markets we’ve
seen drastic crashes in the market You
Name It We don’t we have our own company
operating capital and we’re a very well
capitalized company um we’re still a
private company but over the years we’ve
always put client security and Longevity
first and as a result of that we have
our own liquidity for all trades our
company operations are completely
segregated from any client assets every
client has a unique Vault with us we’re
not conflating client assets together
and we’ve never been able to we’ve never
said no to a withdrawal unless of course
we think the person on the other end of
the phone is a scammer who stolen your
phone and of course we have the security
processes to prohibit that generally
speaking do you advocate for a system
whereby clients or thirdparty Auditors
can very quickly and transparently audit
or observe the number of cryptos in
reserve yes um I I do subscribe to that
and I I’m interested to see how
Regulators tackle that as time goes on I
think transparency is going to be key
for businesses that want to succeed in
the years to come there are probably
lots of businesses out there um who
might be working as Cowboys still and
they may have not been caught out and
it’s important for us investors to make
sure that we’re not one of the ones that
get ourselves involved so on our end
everything’s on chain and that’s a great
thing if a client sends us Bitcoin they
can see that it’s a unique Vault
generator just for them and if they have
that Bitcoin withdrawn they can see that
as well so think that at the end of the
day it’s actions speak louder than words
uh on our end we encourage clients to
take self custody although we can
custody assets for them we don’t provide
any interest there’s no loan agreements
we don’t do any lending it’s very stock
standard traditional broker business uh
and we work with a third party Auditors
ourselves for our own financials as a
regulated Australian business and we
hope that all businesses work to operate
in such a framework too well proof of
reserves is where I was getting at so
starting last year was a it was a
popular concept A lot of exchanges were
promoting that one such proof of Reserve
concept is a Merkel tree whereby um it’s
basically an anonymized proof of client
balances that’s maintained by a
thirdparty auditor um is that something
that Caleb and brown uses or do you have
another system where you can prove your
reserves we haven’t really been
challenged so clients um they don’t
really challenge us on our reserves on
the not because of a lack of Doubt but
principally because if they’re taking
custody of the assets themselves and
they able to purchase the assets before
funds cleared on our end that action in
and of itself validates hey your broker
definitely not Li here in saying that
though we we do and we have worked with
third party Auditors and generated
reports that’s been historically to
satisfy the regulatory interest and the
corporate governance side of things and
it is something that we want to bring to
the table with clients um it probably
won’t be through a Merkel tree as such
it’ll be more of a traditional approach
it really just honestly at all depends
on what The Regulators require from us
because at the end of the day that’s who
governs um the way that we distribute
information and and they’re the parties
that we need to appease at the end of
the day and the clients own their own
keys or not once we withdraw coins to
clients a common process is you know
I’ll take that example of the client at
the golf course before in that scenario
we’ll help them walk through the process
you want to set up a ledger a traser
whatever kind of custody you want to
work with will help you through that
process we’ll send a million tests if
you will we’ll take the late night phone
call you’ve got 247 dedicated support
with numerous people having full context
over what you need so in that scenario
if a client’s says Hey Jake I really
just want to hold my own assets here you
know not your keys not your coins I’m
thinking that is fantastic let’s make
that work for you let’s help you make
that as secure as humanly possible and
then we’ll get the coins out to you
right away we just want to make sure
it’s tested thoroughly and you’re
confident we have other clients who
might say Hey Jake I’m looking at just
leave coins with Caleb and brown because
I’ve worked with you for years and I
really love your platform and by all
means we have the processes in place to
protect those assets and if they ever
change their mind there’s no strings
attached we can withdraw millions of
dollars of Any Given coin to you right
away in a handful of minutes it’s not an
issue I’m always curious as to how uh
brokerage just select their inventory to
work with so there’s thousands and upon
thousands of cryptos out there uh
publicly listed I’m assuming Caleb and
brown uh doesn’t have all of them in
stock how do you choose then which ones
to offer
great question says Uh there’s a lot of
things we don’t trade privacy coins as
one example there are some coins which
are just simply far too illiquid or
risky for us to be able to trade the
infrastructure of some coins makes it
very difficult to custody because once
we purchase that coin we’ve got a
custody for the client before we
withdraw it to them or continue to have
that custody so what’s critical for us
is if we’re listing a coin we need to be
willing to know that if something goes
wrong there the financial obligation to
make the client hold falls on Caleb and
brown is a regulated company operating
out of Melbourne Australia so there are
things we need to consider when our
operations team lists coins in saying
that we list hundreds and hundreds of
coins um and we can pair all of them
together so what’s really exciting in
this market is a client might have made
a lot of money on a very speculative
altcoin we could have that traded in a
corporate structure directly into other
altcoins directly into Euro Canadian
dollars you name it as one transaction
which saves clients having to go through
several exchanges slip the market five
times uh and risk getting a fairly
unsavory Financial outcome what’s
critical to note here is we operate on
an agency model so we’re incentivized
just to get really good executed
outcomes for our clients we make a
transparent transaction fee and if a
client does a trade and they know that
Caleb and Brown’s fee is say $100 as an
example that $100 has to cover every
cost involved in the process so there’s
no price premiums there’s no slippage no
withdrawal fee at the at the 11th hour
and we just find that that ensures
really sound relationships and it means
clients who would otherwise be
potentially alienated from
cryptocurrency investing and now
empowered because a lot of high net
worth and particularly of the baby
boomer generation they do require that
really solid white glove service that we
offer and um ultimately how should a a a
brokerage firm like Caleb and brown um
screen for projects obviously you you
you’ve heard of many people getting Ruck
pulled many scam projects that aren’t
legitimate how do you evaluate whether
or not a a company is legitimate how do
you do the vetting process for the
clients yeah well we have a fairly
complex vetting process at our oper
operations team run it covers everything
from the legal aspects of the project we
do due diligence on the founders um we
look at the token Supply there are so
many different variables we consider
what what are some major red flags for
you just even for as an investor
yourself
say a project has if project has
Anonymous Founders in this day and age
that’s typically quite a red flag if
it’s got Anonymous Founders and you’ve
heard about it through a hysteria of um
tweets online there is a good chance
that that pump may not be sustained if
it is in fact doing well I think that
anonymity has its value and I’m
certainly an advocate for privacy and
many senses but if you’re doing a
capital raise for a project I think that
private is something you may have to
Forfeit to an extent in order to win
over um the confidence of your investors
so with a lot of altcoins we have had to
reject them on the basis of saying your
clients hey I know you want us to list
this coin for you but the token unlock
the fact that the um Founders hold such
a large percentage of that unlock
Anonymous and what happens is we simply
help educate the client and we help lead
them to making a more Sound Investment
decision so it’s a win-win is a prei
more risky for you let’s say a project
already before even before release has a
pre-mine and the founders not Anonymous
in this case own a large percentage of
that does that change your criteria at
all um it’s some look it’s definitely
something that is material it’s
certainly something that the team will
consider it’s a case by case basis if a
coin has existed for a long period of
time and it’s been able to demonstrate
that it’s solving problems uh if it has
sufficient trade volumes it can be
custody and whatnot then it’s likely
that we’d be able to list it now what
often happens is if we list a coin it
doesn’t by any means mean that we are an
advocate for that coin our job we’re
we’re a broker our job is to allow
clients to have the the Technical
Resources that we have on our end so
that they can engage with the space
without having to stress about having 17
different wallets 12 computer monitors
and their passport flung out across
seven exchanges around the world if they
want to purchase a meme coin for example
their broker is going to tell them
straight up this is what the project
actually does and if they say you know
what I know that but this is my this is
my investment thesis this is what I want
to do it’s my capital at the end of the
day and I believe this narrative is
going to ride out for a week and I’m
going to take some profit if they
understand the risks involved our job is
just to make sure it’s a secure seamless
transaction best pricing possible and
we’ll move forward accordingly what sets
you apart from the Myriad of different
exchanges out there I think the main
thing that sets us apart is our
Obsession for customer service we found
that the cryptocurrency space is
primarily something which is part of the
the technological reol ution of the 21st
century so a lot of people think that
the crypto investor is going to be you
know a teenager someone in their 20s
they’ve got all their computer screens
up and they’re very Tech focused now
largely that has been true and a lot of
innovation has come from that Millennial
audience what we’ve also found though is
if we really want the cryptocurrency
space to blow up and and explode in
adoption we need all walks of life to be
able to engage and what we found is a
lot of our clients who are very very
busy um often very high net worth they
operate using complex corporate
structures they want their lawyers their
accountants across their cryptocurrency
dealings these exchanges don’t have the
capacity to dedicate that support to the
client um on our end every client’s got
dedicated brokerage Team every client
has got dedicated traders who manually
have oversight over the execution of all
trades which enables us to get more
favorable pricing pair all these assets
together and not have trade maximums um
and not have outages during times of
Market hysteria so our job has really
been to separate ourselves from
exchanges in providing the most premium
solution for people who want to engage
in the space and through that we found
that we’ve unlocked this new invested
demographic of the Baby Boomers in
particular who are thinking damn I like
a service like Caleb and brown it’s not
stressful I get a great price on my
assets and I can enjoy my day can we
trade can we trade the ETFs on your
brokerage account we don’t trade ETFs so
we offer quite a variety of complex
trading in terms of you know stop stop
limits etc etc um however and we can
offer that for a lot of coins which
don’t have that in any exchanges as well
however we don’t trade ETFs at this
point in time um but most of our clients
they’re noted is that something you’re
planning to change or add it all comes
down to what our clients want so we
speak to our clients every single day we
get that feedback and we build the
products that they want if our clients
turn around tomorrow and have an
overwhelming interest in ETFs I can
assure you that we’ll have that’s I move
towards that’s interesting okay so who
are the clients asking for ETFs versus
the clients that you work with how are
they
different a lot of our clients um
they’re quite empowered in the space
because they’ve got a broker they can
speak to 247 they’ve able to they read
the headlines they sense check it with
their broker they share ideas we publish
our own research as well which types of
investors are more drawn to let’s say an
ETF product versus the underlying just
spot Bitcoin I think a lot of them might
be the same I think it really just
depends on how hands-off they want to be
if someone just wants exposure to
bitcoin through a traditional vehicle
the ETF solves a lot of problems for
them a lot of our clients they want more
than just Bitcoin and they want quicker
liquidity they want to be able to move
in and out of it a lot faster okay and
do you also have an a wallet or they
have to have their own wallet no um so
we’re a custody solution too um we
partner with fire blocks and several
other firms to offer an unparalleled
custody solution which to date has never
had a single scent compromised um and
we’ve operated since 2016 so how do you
see the uh crypto brokerage industry
evolving into the future with the Advent
of new technology new products like the
ETFs for
example it’s a good question and it’s a
question we asked quite a lot because
the brokerage model is something that’s
more traditional and cryptocurrency is
something which is more new what we’re
finding is there is a Crossroads where
there’s value from the old and value
from the new and our job is to find
ourselves right there in the middle so
we get the best of both worlds I think
as more High net worth individuals
engage with the space and not just that
because we don’t only work with high net
worth individuals if people want to
invest in the space and they just want
to be hands off they don’t want to be
overwhelmed with the technological uh
advancements they don’t want to have the
risk of signing the wrong contract or
dumping the market because they Su in a
liquid altcoin in the wrong format then
a brokerage solution solves a lot of
those problems I think that the world
naturally every industry has got premium
models you know the difference between
standard banking versus versus private
banking is something that we’re often
used as an example for and uh I think
that more brokerages will will come
about over the years as a result of that
well the biggest counterargument to The
Brokerage model is the rise of dexus
decentralized exchanges especially
people in the crypto World why would I
if I were sa Savvy enough to use a DEX
need a crypto broker why can’t I just
transact peer-to-peer without a
middleman well what we find is a lot of
clients do both um and we encourage
clients to do so there are clients who
use caliber Brown for certain
transactions and they might use a DEX
for other transactions for example if
someone’s got some ethereum and they
want to swap it directly on Unis swap as
an example into another altcoin if
they’ve got cost to the assets go for it
familiarize yourself with the technology
that you’re investing in I definitely
agree with that but in the same note if
someone’s got a corporate structure and
they’re holding a significant amount of
say Unis swap token as an example maybe
that’s what they trade it into in that
scenario if they’re looking to sell that
into British pounds us dollarars and
have it wired to their account if
they’re sitting on a large sum of
capital they’re going to have to go
through several trades and several
withdrawal processes to get from the
Unis swap tokens in their wallet all the
way through to British pounds US Dollars
Canadian dollars in their corporate bank
account and we’ve just make that process
more seamless and more cost effective as
well because it’s one transaction how do
you think banks will evolve or adopt
crypto going forward for example I can’t
go to my bank TD which is in based in
Canada Toronto Dominion and buy Bitcoin
using my Fiat or the other way around I
can’t get a crypto loan I can’t offload
or onramp into ethereum if I wanted to
right these are services that perhaps
Caleb and brown and other brokerages
provide when are they going to two-part
question when if they are going to do
that do you think they’re going to start
adopting these services and second part
of the question why aren’t they doing
that already if they already have the
talent the Manpower the infrastructure
and Tech great question I’ll go back to
front there so I think that uh to your
second question why are they not doing
it I don’t think they want to do it the
principle here is that if people are
investing and engaging with
cryptocurrency they’re using a crypto
broker they’re using exchanges defi
protocols maybe they’re even lending on
these defi protocols in that scenario
that is a categorical outflow of wealth
and assets from the traditional banking
system into this new age cryptocurrency
ecosystem that is objectively bad for
the banks and that is not something that
the banks are going to have a liking
towards so they’re not going to be
particularly fond of the cryptocurrency
investor and the and the businesses
supporting that now so that’s why
they’re not getting involved now because
they don’t want to get involved it’s
it’s shooting their revenue directly in
the foot however your first question I
think they will get involved and I think
they’ll go they’ll have to be involved
uh as a matter of not innovate or die
it’s not that black and white
cryptocurrency is great but it’s not the
end of fat currency so to say the
principle though is that if you don’t
get involved and embrace new techn
techology there are other Banks and
other organizations around the world
that do and some of the traditional
banks in Canada the USA and Australia
for example they’re very traditional in
how they operate but then if you go to
Europe or if you go to Asia you see some
fantastic Innovation there so it will
stifle growth in my opinion if people
are not willing to explore and innovate
with new asset classes and I believe
that the banks will be facing that and I
think that’ll solve that problem in due
course I spoke to uh Thomas honik
recently he was the vice chairman of the
FDIC between 2012 to 2018 and I asked
him if you were still director or
chairman of the FDIC would you ensure
crypto Banks exchanges brokerages um and
whatnot and he said now we do know that
um several of the uh crypto Banks if you
want to call them Banks holding
companies FTX Celsius failed and most
people aren’t getting their money back
because those deposits those crypto
deposits aren’t FDIC insured if you were
still director of the FDIC would you
change that rule would you ensure crypto
Banks absolutely not I I think
cryptocurrency is a um it’s it is a
asset that people just like just like
the stock market it’s an asset that
they’re engaging in either because they
think it’s better or they’re speculating
in it and I don’t think they should have
any back stop from the government it is
a private Enterprise i i i acknowledge
and I have no problem if they want to
get in that business that’s there but
know that you can lose your money and no
one will bail you out and if I were the
FDIC chairman I would make that
explicitly clear in the public domain
how would you respond to this I think
that the the governance that
cryptocurrency businesses should have
should not necessarily be eye to eye
with the governance that traditional
Banks and and that sector could have
because it’s a different technological
instrument and it should be treated as
such um as an example like what we have
done as a company is uh and I can say
this at any point in time Caleb and
Brown’s counterparty exposure will be a
minute amount of our company capital and
we intentionally have these internal
ratios because it means if anyone
collapses around us or if there is any
issue with our third parties that
includes banks by the way that includes
Banks I’m not even talking
cryptocurrency counterparties then we
know our customers will always be whole
and we can always continue our
operations and we done that because
whilst we’ve been profitable over the
years we’ve been able to ensure that we
can use that to capitalize a more safe
business operation now what I think will
happen in the coming years is I would
like to see there be actual law and
governance surrounding precisely that
like an equivalent to what they have in
the banking sector should it be one to
one I think it should be one: one in
principle of ensuring consumer
protection that should be the underlying
motive here but in in reality you know
dealing with ethereum
uh you know salana based tokens def
protocols and whatnot we can’t see that
eye to eye as a bank that’s holding
traditional assets that have existed for
hundreds of years in fiat currency okay
perfect thank you very much Jake where
can we learn more about Caleb and brown
um jump on our website it’s no cost in
having an account with us and there’s no
cost in speaking with us so any
questions just chat with us directly and
whether you want to work with us or not
either way we’re here to help we’ll put
the link in the description down below
make sure to follow Jake and uh and
Caleb round down there thank you very
much again for your time I hope to speak
to you again soon thanks David likewise
and thank you for watching don’t forget
to like and subsscribe

Learn more about Caleb & Brown at: https://bit.ly/candbdavidlin

Jake Boyle, Chief Commercial Officer at Caleb & Brown, discusses the recent Bitcoin price drop and gives his forecast for what’s next.

*This video was recorded on April 30, 2024 and is sponsored by Caleb & Brown

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*This video is not financial advice. The channel is not responsible for the performance of sponsors and affiliates.

0:00 – Intro
0:30 – Bitcoin price recap
2:11 – Post-halving cycle
3:36 – Altcoins and BTC dominance
5:50 – Bitcoin’s floor
6:55 – Bitcoin price forecast
10:42 – Bitcoin’s use cases
15:09 – Bitcoin vs. stablecoins as payments
19:10 – Bitcoin adoption worldwide
21:00 – Trust in crypto brokers
25:20 – Crypto proof of reserves
28:46 – Selecting cryptos to list
33:45 – Caleb & Brown’s edge
35:22 – Bitcoin ETFs
37:00 – Future of crypto brokerages
38:10 – Brokerage vs. DEX
39:00 – TradFi banks and crypto adoption
41:30 – FDIC insurance for cryptos

#bitcoin #crypto #investing