AI Reset: “Life As We Know It Will Be Gone In 5 Years” – Upcoming Utopia vs Dystopia | Salim Ismail
we have two Futures in our world today either a Mad Max future or a Star Trek future do you think that as we transition over to AI that it will take us through a valley of Despair or is this going to be a straight line to Utopia oh no big valleys of chaotic despair an AI is going to be a million times smarter than you this is the biggest inflection point that we’ve ever seen how do they create the next billion dollar company with three people if that’s the way to play it this is what needs to happen describe the most likely sequencing over the next 30 Years uh I think we for me the AI transition is typewriter to word processor it’s just an uplifting and enabling of all sorts of capabilities across multiple multiple sectors and industries and it transforms how we do things pretty fundamentally from creativity to uh uh Rank and file work to blue color work to ET I think the robotic stuff is further down the line than most people think uh Peter’s very excited about it we have all the human Ed robots but robotics is really really hard and will take much longer in my opinion but the AI stuff will actually allow us to uplift ourselves very quickly and you know we talk about scarcity to abundance I think AI gets us to abundance very very fast and I think that’s for me the most exciting and optimistic side of things we have two Futures in our world today either a Mad Max future which you can see playing out in Gaza or Ukraine or a Star Trek future uh where we have abundance and we’re operating on a on a much more highly conscious basis Etc and so which future do we pick as a human species is the choice that’s in front of us right now okay so you believe that there’s a branching path before us uh and we get to choose which path we go down it’s a little we’re actually heading down the Mad Max path so if you look at our politics you look at what’s happening you look at the the political rck here in the US there’s a huge transitional shift happening and you could the my my favorite sensible way of dealing with or talking about that is a centralized to decentralized shift right we run the world today on very centralized systems governments and corporations and the military-industrial complex Etc we’re moving to much more decentralized and bottom up peer-to-peer systems um and you could call that a male archetype versus a female archetype if you want to go there um but when you get to abundance you want a female archetype to be running the world uh because the female archetype shares resources around naturally uh so for example the male archetype when it meets abundance relates to it as power and tries to hoard it Middle East oil Wall Street money Etc female archetype meets abundance and shares it around so you really need a sharing decentralized model as we move the world to abundance and that’s the tension that I think I see in the world more than anything is that centralized to decentralize architecture and we’ve started to see the rise of this over the last few decades the burning men philosophy um open- Source movements DIY movements the maker movement Etc democracy itself is is an is a bottomup movement um as a reaction to feudal systems and and top down Empires um and we’re moving in that direction it’s just slow and painful and centralized systems don’t like to relinquish power we know that very clearly so that’s the tension that I see that’s playing out that’s underpinning all the other how it’s showing up so for example when I think about Trump or brexit it wasn’t left versus right it was actually Urban versus rural brexit was 100% London versus the rest of the country why would that be the break point because there’s a tension in cities and how do we allocate resources to cities versus the countryside uh where people because the metabolism of a city is much faster Innovation happens very fast in a city and so therefore that that’s the environment in which we’re doing most of our of our Innovation work and technological development today and if you’re left behind you get very unhappy with that and so this is the tension that I think we’re seeing around the world so we have this fundamental tension between things could go well things could go poorly um splitting between the different archetypes male female how we respond to abundance power or sharing the resources uh urban and rural um I’m starting to get a sense of where you’re going do you think that as we transition over to AI that it will take us through a value of Despair or is this going to be a straight line to Utopia oh no big valys of chaotic despair um these types of transitions I think this is the biggest transformation in the history of civilization maybe the history of species on on Earth it’s that big and the transition is going to be very painful they never are are clean right like dinos asteroid hits and the dinosaurs get wiped out and now you have camon explosion types I think that’s the kind of transition we’re seeing here okay that that is uh arguably the most devastating thing to ever happen to life on this Earth yeah uh wait I don’t I don’t believe AI gets us there but it’s meaning AI will not have that kind of cataclysmic that’s right knock on effect that’s right actually am I’m hugely optimistic about the future so just that’s a really important framing Point um but there’s no question in Civilization at least this is the biggest inflection point that we’ve ever seen and I think that next 30 Years defines the next 300 years why will the next 30 Years Define it what what does that look is that the period of transition yeah it’s the transition period And this is chaos theory right the initial conditions are really critical and how you navigate those initial conditions with uh as much experience guidance and a lot of luck will then guide the rest of the future uh if you know Chaos Theory the idea is that if you drop a pebble down the top of a mountain it doesn’t matter how many times you you drop the pebble is always going to take a different path because some micro change in the initial atmosphere or the pressure when you released it or the first bounce or the density of the first thing it hit or the change in humidity along the way will have it go down a different route so you never know what’s going to happen but it just knows we’re just in the really big transition and it’s super exciting but it’s very very chaotic I have heard you that this is going to be very difficult to predict however one of the most interesting descriptions of quantum mechanics I heard is that yes while all things are simply probabilistic the world that you see is the most likely and I thought that was a really great explanation so assuming that knowing that no matter how many times you drop the pebble it be different but there’s there’s a most likely sort of cluster of effects yeah think of it as a a stock market chart right you never have a clear straight line it’s always a choppy and then it stabilizes then it has a breakthrough moment and then it’s choppy again it’s kind of like that I think that’s the pattern that we see okay what causes that like I can actually explain economically what’s going on in terms of human greed fear and the way that cultural energy will move through a medium that can be an economic medium so you can actually see cultural energy move through a stock market if anybody paying attention to bitcoin I will just tell you right now that is simply a cultural idea that is spreading through the medium of cryptocurrency I won’t derail the conversation on that but like with that in mind that to to me my base assumption about those jagged lines is that is human the human brain responding in a somewhat predictable way and you can watch that idea Ripple through um including sort of bounding it so it’s only going to go up so high and it’s only going to go down so low and so you see this sort of bounding fluctuation and you can look back through history and you see that same sort of bounded fluctuation now those bounded fluctuations to me are terrifying and if you read history because like I said said the long Arc is bending towards prosperity for all and if you zoom out long enough on human time scales it’s unbelievable the progress made oh my God but that that does not help uh the guy whose family all gets rolled up in rugs by the Mongols and trampled to death yes like that’s just no consolation and so I’m saying we’re all that guy right we all live one life yes we are bounded from a Time perspective so far uh and so it matters me a lot where I am on these jagged lines so going back to AI what are these jegged lines do you buy into my thesis or do you have a different one oh I I agree with you but with some caveats so for example uh the economic outcomes of AI I think are pretty clear in terms of what’s going to happen I think we’re going to see massive productivity gains across the board um The Challenge we have is the underlying system is flawed in terms of Economic Development and economic growth right our entire system global system is money is the main mode of discourse in the world today and it’s good because if you think of money as a form of energy we freed money energy from religious structures and feudal systems and then the power of ideas came along and the power of Technology came along and now it flows very nicely very quickly to new ideas and good ideas VI via Venture Capital via private Equity Bitcoin new ideas can pop up and money will flow where the best ideas are so that’s fantastic one level but um moving from money as a main mode of discourse in the world to information as a main mode of discourse in the world so for example any startup would much rather gather data about things rather than getting money early because they can monetize the data much more and they’re fungible today you can convert money into information and vice versa over time information becomes a high order bit right because take your health you’re much more interested in the different biomarkers you can track then how much it’ll cost you to fix things ET because the information is more valuable so I think as a at a very metaphysical level we’re shifting from the Quest for money and the Quest for uh greed Etc and energy that way and shifting it into information when we move that transition now Things become really powerful I think this is the massive Insight that Ray kwell had when he started tracking Moors law that as we digitize we turn things into information that information can then be manipulated into back into matter back into money and vice versa and you have this amazing cyclical pattern that can take place and little by little we’re moving more and more into that over time money will become less important on this scale if you went back a thousand years ago we were all working 18 hours a day in the fields to put three meals on the table and you some of us still are asep some of us still are but we but you didn’t have a choice then you pretty much had to do that only a very small percent of the population could not do that right today that number of that population that can doesn’t have to do that is much much much bigger and little by little as we uh do better vertical farming and solar energy into all sorts of remote parts in the world and satellite internet and water extraction out of the atmosphere pretty much will be able to have an amazing life anywhere on the planet at for every level of humanity that’s why Peter gets so excited that’s why we get so excited about the technological progress the problem is our social systems and all our infrastructure and all our institutions are not geared for smooth progress in this thing I think for to summarize those lines that you were talking about I would quote eio Wilson the famous biologist who said um our the problem with humanity is that our emotions are Paleolithic our institutions are medieval and our technolog is Godlike right pretty much all the problems in the world come from the gaps in those layers and I think the pressure is so intense today that we’ll any leader today will spend the next 20 years of Our Lives basically dealing with the gaps in those in those layers yeah let’s name that the human problem the human problem so my thing is the human problem is not going anywhere so for instance you were just talking about um right now people are seeking money that becomes the game but now the information is going to become the higher order bit people are going to start pursuing that but what I will ask is why and the answer to me seems self-evidently it’s more powerful so you still have humans playing a game of power which is why I’m still very concerned about these valleys of Despair Because unless something changes in our biology that makes us pursue different things we will simply derange AI we will simply derange the pursuit of information and while you and I share a very optimistic vision of the long-term future because of that long Arc what way do you see us so going back to your branching choice between madmax or Utopia how do we nudge Humanity to not go down madmax which you’re saying we’re doing currently and instead go to Utopia what how do you solve the human problem I think you open up as fast as possible and decentralize as fast as possible okay so the uh number two to uh zalinsky in the Ukraine is one of our community members so i’ we’ve got our Global open EXO community that are building for for the 21st century building companies and transforming governments Etc um and I chat I was chatting with him and he was asking some advice it turns out they’ve been using my book a bit in in their dealing with the what’s happening there and one of the com comments I made is look this is how is it that you’ve become so resilient as in terms of the in the face of the aggression and he said we’ve decentralized the country we’ve decentralized the country so there’s no single point of attack for energy or for infrastructure or for electricity Etc and we’ve been doing that for 10 years because we could see this could be a likely possibility so I think what happens is when you decentralize things become much much more resilient just take energy for example if you decentralize we can have solar energy powering lots of small communities then there’s no need for security at the central power grid because there isn’t one and anybody can generate solar energy at a very local level and the efficiency means we’ll get better and better at in it and better and better generating it and now you have amazing resource capability anywhere and a wonderful level most of our Wars over the last 100 years have been over energy oil specifically right so when we free ourselves from that hopefully you should get to a peaceful nature now I was under the impression for a while that huh when we get to abundance that we won’t be fighting anymore and I got disillusioned from that by a couple of the deep thinkers who said no we’ll still have lots of human conflict because humans are really geared towards conflict in X prise we try and push people towards healthy competition and let’s work things out that way we’ve got all sorts of really great ways of dealing with the natural conflict that we bring up in human beings for example sports teams the Olympics uh uh Etc and that allows us to vent a lot of kind of aggression that might otherwise come out in other ways uh but we still have to deal with the fundamental human nature problem and I’m I’m hopefully the the abundance inside gets there faster than some lone uh small team of people trying to use AI to design a virus that will attack all middle-aged Indian bald guys right that would be the The Hope okay uh so decentralization I am one of the few people that is beyond obsessed with cryptocurrencies web 3 uh and believes that decentralization is just deeply problematic so the reason I think that decentral ation is deeply problematic is that you cannot Galvanize the energy of humans well and so while some things will respond to decentralization very well so take um the very nature of the blockchain the fact that it is distributed that they all run as nodes is brilliant I’m here for that I love it the most yeah uh however I am doing battle with coinbase for instance which keeps wanting to verify my identity keeps asking me where I got my money I’m like bro I’m about as public as you get I don’t know what else you want want me to show you uh but I want them to be centralized because I don’t want to have to like do a bunch of crazy stuff to make sure that I’m getting my um crypto Exchange in a safe way all that stuff so I’m I’m making a willing trade uh for Simplicity for security I know all the memes but nonetheless and I think that more people are like me okay so people want centralization and you have a hard time aiming everybody’s energy in the same direction when all the decision making is completely distributed yeah you also have what our founding fathers were trying to protect against which is the tyranny of the majority yes and so there are reasons I think to be skeptical that decentralization is a magical solution um so let’s use Ukraine since you brought them up as an example there’s a guy named John mimer brilliant political thinker um military I don’t know if he’s officially a strategist but anyway seems to deeply understand that and he just keeps saying Ukraine is going to lose it is inevitable and they’re going to end up a dysfunctional rump State and when I hear that rhetoric I’m like okay one let me just be very clear I have not I’m not close enough to the problem or to just that thing in general to know if he’s right but there’s so much internal logic to the way that he approaches it so I’m looking at your argument they’ve decentralized a bunch of things so it becomes harder to attack but that also makes it feel like each region is going to be easier to overtake and so if I’m Russia I’m just going to go Zone by Zone by Zone being like I don’t have to worry about the whole Collective because you guys are decentralized so I’m just going to eat this node and then eat this node yeah uh however the problem with eating these nodes is keeping that node is non-trivial okay so for example they installed a bunch of Russian Mayors in some of the initial towns that they and they just put car bombs under them and started blowing them up so now who wants to go be a Russian mayor of a local Ukrainian town when your lifespan is going to be very short so the resistance is going to be uh strong just because they don’t have a choice right this is their this is the existential for them and this is the same thing why it’s difficult to take over Afghanistan or take over a it may become a rum State that’s possible but if that’s the case it was going to become that anyway way and you might as well fight it which is what they’re doing right now the question is can they win and I think they can’t win without obviously a huge amount of Western aid but I think they could win in that in that situation what do you think becomes the galvanizing Force so you mention Afghanistan I have a feeling without a sense of cultural identity and possibly religion it would be easy to disrupt but there’s a galvanizing force that allows the distributed nature of all of that to work that they still have this thing that sits over them that unites them yeah so this is a great question is what is that binding Force because it used to be religion right we started actually it used to be tribal structures because we would cooperate on nomadic tribes and the tribes would then fight and over a time period of time we the as technology be became better the tribes that get bigger and bigger in formed countries and Empires right the Mongols that you mentioned earlier my my favorite thing about the Mongols is an old from an old BBC documentary that said they destroyed anything they got angry at and they got angry at anything they didn’t understand so they came down from the steps down to Han China found a million Chinese Farmers doing agriculture didn’t understand it got angry at it and literally wiped out a million Farmers just because they because of that cascading logic right um now if you grow an Empire to a certain level uh can you keep it or not keep it as one area the ones that worked best are the ones that decentralized the administration and navigated local preferences in a powerful way Akbar in in India the Mongols did it pretty powerfully and pretty well Alexander the Great managed it pretty well the Roman Empire did pretty well there’s that whole idea of the fourth turning and all of the cyclical aspects I I I look at all these folks picky ralo uh Yuval Harari Etc and I think they’re incredibly insightful about the past I find they’re not that useful about the future why because I think this inflection point and I know this is a tired uh kind of meme of this time is different but I think this time is really different the combination of energetic abundance and lifespan that we’re about to break uh life extension Plus AI makes it a completely different cocktail than we’ve ever seen before in the history of humanity and so I think this is a complete step change and this is why it’s so exciting to be around today you should know the following three numbers 37,251 37,000 that is the number of businesses which have upgraded to netsuite by Oracle 25 netsuite turns 25 this year so you know that they know what they’re doing they’ve been around for a long time that is 25 years of helping businesses do more with less closer books in days not weeks and drive down costs one because your business is truly one of a kind so you’re going to need a customized solution for all of your key performance indicators in one efficient system with one source of Truth which you will get from netw Suite manage risk get reliable forecast and improve margins everything you need to grow all in one place right now download net suite’s popular kpi checklist designed to give you consistently excellent performance absolutely free at netsuite.com Theory that’s netsuite.com Theory to get your own kpi checklist netsuite.com theory for the audience that doesn’t know you you have a business um framework that I think is going to be really useful to help us think through because um I keep finding you drift to the well once we’re on the other side of this there’s energy abundance and it solves all these medical problems and those are the things that I think calms everybody down in the long run but they do not help us in the next call it from now to seven years is sort of the time window where I think things are going to get really weird so really fast walk people through um your thinking around um how in business we can use some of these strategies to uh become an exponential organization sure so you know if you went back to the 20th century the most successful organizations were the biggest top- down hierarchical command and control structures pyramid structured with a CEO at the top uh designed for two things designed for efficiency and designed for predictability right if you’re if you’re Pampers you’re trying to deliver the same box of Pampers in a million locations around the world or McDonald’s or healthc care services or whatever today you need to be architected for agility flexibility adaptability and speed okay and we found uh in the last episode we did with you that the top 10 of the Fortune 100 that are the most flexible and agile compared to the bottom 10 in our opinion that are the least EXO friendly had delivered 40 times better shareholder returns over a 7-year period than the on so there’s a clear economic thesis here that as the world becomes more volatile your ability to adapt will drive market value and drive have a better organization so how do you build that and we call these exponential organizations where you have a massive purpose like cure cancer Elon has three take us to space solve Transportation solve the climate um and then you build an organization with a a set of externalities like leveraging Community like Ted does um leveraging assets that you don’t own like Airbnb uh not hiring your own staff like uber and then a set of internal mechanisms like The Lean Startup thinking ideas and decentralize orc structures because you can push decision- making to the edge we found that the more of these characteristics are used the better and we’re clear now over the next decade that every government Department impact project nonprofit for-profit will tend towards these structures because we now have enough evidence to show that that’s better so for example when we talk to CEOs today they are not AI ready at all because they’re old 20th century organization structures is absolutely not set up for what’s coming with AI right they’re not AI ready and so they’re all asking is can you please give us a workshop set us up with some help on how do we navigate Ai and I see two problems that are Paramount today with companies implementing AI the first is they jump in very quickly and they can’t see the Rocks before they dive in and they get into trouble either by accidentally putting all their data into chat GPT or um um putting the wrong models into place and the second issue which is the bigger issue is the immune system problem so I first came across this problem at Yahoo and I was running their incubator and the more disruptive an idea we came up with in the incubator the less the company could handle it right I was like wait you hired me to do disruptive stuff and I bring you something and you guys can’t cope right you can’t integrate it why because of that that if efficiency and and Agility problem um that really stuck in my head and going through seven years of building Singularity and noticing that we have 20 Gutenberg moments hitting us AI is hitting us right now but we have biotech we have blockchain is in as Gutenberg moment solar energy is a Gutenberg moment life extension is a Gutenberg moment um we will not be able to manage the future with our current existing organization structures or our current government structure or institution structures so we architected this model it we now can see that it will work and we the two we have to solve two things one is um uh what’s the thoughtful way in which you apply technology to derive Great Value from it secondly how do you navigate that immune system response and so we’re coaching companies and so on how to do this because if you push AI into a company all the people go whoa Nelly and they freak out and uh the antibodies attack you and nothing moves this analogy was first given to me by the CTO of Autodesk I was chatting with him and I was complaining about he’s like oh you’ve got an immune system response and I went ding it’s the best articulated framing you try anything disruptive in a big company and it’s worse in the public sector because we have taxis fighting Uber we have Bankers fighting Bitcoin we’re not progressing Society along enough quickly enough because when there’s new technological breakthroughs all the antibodies freak out and we get so we have to solve that problem problem at a cultural level CU companies have their immune systems but and governments have their but institutions have really bad immune systems education God help you if you try and update Academia religion has probably the worst immune system because they’ll kill you in in literally in those cases right um so I I remember having a conversation with Salman Rashi a few years ago and he was talking about the fatwa and I asked him how was that like for you and he said you know I grew up in the 60s and he had this really tired tone in his voice he goes I grew up in the’ 60s we thought we nailed religion we thought it was done and then in the 80s it comes roaring back and boom immune system problem did you talk to him before or after cuz he got attacked like got he lost an eyed him or something yeah that was just recently I haven’t talked to for decades they laid in weight they well not laid in weight but the problem is that when you have deep-seated institutional or political beliefs they don’t go away they’re wired into your limic system so all religions work in the following way okay you take a young child below the age of 10 you give them an absolute truth an assumptive truth like Virgin Mary Muhammad is the last prophet Jesus is is the Son of God whatever and then you bind it into them with the ritual repetition and a lot of sweets a lot of sugar okay and all religious functions operate on this and then when the when the neocortex forms in the from the 10 to 13y old age the kid’s brain is already deeply wired with these absolute assumptive truth and you can’t if you if you stress it at that point you evoke a fight ORF flight response this is why the Jesuits say give me the boy until the age of seven I’ll give you the Met right because you can wire a young child so all religions operate that way we have to undo uh some of that damage that we’re doing to kids with religion around this but the problem that you pointed out that’s really important is what’s the binding coagulant that holds Society together in the absence of that model and that’s the big challenge we have to figure out storytelling is one aspect of it we have modern myths like Star Wars and Star Trek and others that are popping up but they’re not they’re not connective enough as tissue to hold us together yeah agreed also I think that even though I’ve dedicated my life to that form of Storytelling it it does not touch the realm of religion which is why I’m utterly fascinated with what’s going on right now uh what I think of is the um the tralization of society so we are going to be radicalized in the direction of the traditional I think we’re the next 3 years is really going to be marked by that and I think because of AI it’s just going to massively fuel those Flames but uh before we get lost on that the the idea of the immune system which I think is incredibly important as you were talking this is so hilarious to how my mind works I was like he’s setting his own trap okay so keep in mind what I really want people to understand is I think and I think you’ll agree with this the world is going to be fundamentally different three to five years from now yes and to a point you start stretching that out far enough and it it becomes absolutely unrecognizable if you have a kid that’s in kindergarten now by the time they reach high school the world will look nothing like it does now this is a very near-term concern what you’re calling the immune system which to me is a reflection of what I’m calling the human problem which is humans long for power humans have Pursuit uh dialed to 11 so want to get better they want to acre more power we all we also have this massive quest for control to make sense of the world to control the world right because you know if you go back to our our um evolutionary Roots it was a survive or die either you manage the world around you or it manages you and you’re at you’re you’re done pretty quickly so you have to gain control of your environment as fast as possible and as aggressively as possible in that model we are now controlling this most of the species on the planet with whether we like it or not we’re controlling the atmosphere whether we like it or not accidentally badly um now we’re trying to manage this future of technology and this is where regulatory comes in right we try and put in guard rails for how we manage technology going forward and you know over the centuries we’ve done a pretty good job of it the big challenge with regulator is how do you extract the promise of Technology without the Peril right like I can use fire to heat my house and I can use it to burn down your house how do we navigate that I tend to be really optimistic about this because of the old eBay study that I think we talked about last time so when Craigslist and eBay emerged um for the first time you could study human nature at scale and because I can on Craigslist very easily put up a fake picture of a Macbook you send me $1,000 and I’m off to Fiji right and I can mask my email address pretty quickly same thing with Craiglist so sociologist and anthropologist got pretty interested in this said oh we can actually study human nature and I can equally do good or bad what’s the actual ratio right so they started studying these systems Kajiji in Canada Craigslist here eBay Etc and it turns out very consistently across these systems where a human being can do a positive or fraudulent transaction the actual ratio turns out to be something like 8,000 to1 consistently okay which is really surreal and Incredibly exciting actually because that means if you opened up drones and said anybody do whatever they want with drones you’ll get 8,000 positive use cases to the one bad guy okay which make which is fantastic for society except our current model is drones come out the regulatory goes oh my God somebody might load up a a C4 on a drone and flyed into the White House just can ban all drones and then slowly open that tap and over a 20-year period we get the benefits of that technology so we have a ton of problems with imprisons today with drones flying cell phones and cameras and money over the Prison Walls and dropping them into the prisoners and the wardens are going crazy right so hello uh let’s deal with this in a different way so now there’s Technologies to solve the Drone uh interference problem we’ll get there but this is a technological uh uh Arbitrage problem and so the challenge is how do we make sure we’re doing good things with technology not the bad things with technology and over the years I think we’re doing a pretty good job of it in general but I think that with the democratization of technology and the easy access to anybody that has access to AI or can home build a drone this becomes harder and harder so we have to lift human nature and get to abundance and give everybody what they want materially as fast as we can so they don’t go down the dark path is is One path that that was an obvious one I think even if I were to accept the ratio of good actors to Bad actors the thing that’s missing is the level to which a bad actor Will exploit yes important the amplitude of that negative is growing right so the amount of damage one person can do is growing exponentially and so our ability to control one person is dropping exponentially that’s a not a great equation um we have Mark Goodman as one of our community members he’s a he was a futurist for the FBI uh so if you can get him drunk he has awesome stories about how criminals and terrorists use bad use technology in a negative way and it’s actually fascinating to see how creative they are around some of this um but the the big challenge is the amplitude is actually growing back to the Middle East Indian ball guy virus yeah which hopefully they never make I would be very sad even though most people are going to do good things you’re going to have these moments of uh exploitation people will take advantage of that the amplitude of that is growing you also have the immune system response that is just trying to stop change from happening uh which can be good or bad but ultimately I think it is to your point you have a a creature that is born of evolution that had to learn to control its environment that had to have Pursuit dialed to 11 so it would try to go out and try to control its environment and do better things for the group and all that stuff and acquire power and all that so I am still at this moment of before us is a fork in the road and EV you have really done a great job of laying out what humans are like but I still don’t see the thing other than AI finally begins delivering on some of the promises and then we all go okay yeah cool like I’m going to embrace this but I still think we have to go through Mad Max I don’t see any way around that equation um so if you feel like there’s an argument left that will convince me if not please detail for us what are those amazing things that AI is going to deliver us that will make having gone through this Valley of dispair well worth unleashing AI upon the world okay so important to note that we don’t have a choice about unleashing AI into the world Kevin Kelly wrote this book what technology wants and basically AR showed in very clear thing that technology is moving at its own pace and our only hope is to really keep up with it because it’s it’s taken on a life of its own in a sense because if we try and regulate AI then other people go run a muck with it and so it ends up being an arms race and you end up having to do it anyway so now uh let me give you the some use cases where AI can radically change things in a short period of time for the radically better um I’ll Channel Imad mustach here this the head of St who is the head of stability and one of the projects he’s working on is can we take all the healthc Care data in a country and load it up into an LM and all the legal legislative the law books and put that into an llm and all the software codebase globally and put that in and you give every child three or four links a doctor a lawyer a software programmer and a general General AI helper okay now if you give every kid in Africa a link with a doctor and there’s a medical problem at home they will just start using it and transforming their uh Health Care locally for free and this will completely change the world same thing with education as we load up all the educational content into an AI it’s going to do a way better job at teaching kids and kids can self-learn in a much more effective way than our current systems can do it so you do those two things uh and Healthcare and education suddenly become free and adapted and personalized to every child in the world that’s an unbelievable future so the whole ecosystem and the methodology we’ve been building is how do you enable those people to build as fast as possible and build that optimistic future as fast as possible and that’s what exponential organizations so EXO as we use it as a metaphor is the is the thing at the edge exoskeleton exoplanet exothermic reaction so we want to find EXO Builders and EXO Heroes that’s the collection we’re launching on finding people that are building things at the edge because we need to build that edge very fast and let that become the new Gravity Center very fast because the current system is imploding think like a Sci-Fi writer for me for a second yes so a Sci-Fi riter’s job is not to imagine the automobile it’s to predict the traffic jam so what are the if we’re giving people access to all this information around Healthcare they have a private doctor a private lawyer uh they’re educated it’s hyper tailored to them we’re going to unlock as much of their intelligence and their creativity as is going to be possible um what are the things that are born of that well I think there will be some negatives you’ll may have accidents people misinterpret the data people do Source the wrong information from their bodies and put it into the AI and you’ll get the wrong diagnosis lots of issues can come along but the general outcome was the benefits will so outweigh the negatives that I think it’s it’s absolutely worth doing okay there’s no question in my mind that giving kids the ability to learn at their own pace on their own and then socializing as they need to in different ways is going to transform the education system in a much more powerful way from a push system to a pull system right can I just delve into education just for a second please Okay so we’ve been doing education for a couple hundred years on what I call John Hegel used to call the push system you got a bunch of kids into a classroom and you try and cram algebra into them right mostly they’re thinking about lunch little by little we move to a pool basis where I pull I take a new job or new role or new gig and I pull down the knowledge I need to do that job right that’s great now we’re and the whole education system for the last few hundred years has been supply side go become an accountant an engineer a doctor a lawyer um um a plumber and sell that in the job Marketplace acquire set of skills which is what universities do they give you that job schooling which is all that universities do today and then you go to the job market the demand side and you try and sell those skills in the demand side I think what we’re going to see happen is we’re going to go from push-based education to pull-based learning but demand driven so for example if you take Elon he’s like I’m going to build an electric car and let me go find the Technologies the skills the capabilities I need no experience or capability of doing it at the time but he’ll pull them towards him and solve that problem so what we see kids doing this is what’s encapsulated in the massive transformative purpose in the in the EXO model pick a huge purpose cure cancer okay and then go find the Technologies and skills and capabilities and pull those to you as you need to to solve those problems that I think is going to be the future of Education getting there from the existing system is impossible so you need technology to help you bridge that gap between a and b and you need it to be permissionless so one of the most exciting vectors of human development that I’m seeing today is something I call PDI per lless disruptive innovation okay if you wanted to do disruptive innovation throughout history you had to get a sponsor an investor a government to bless you somebody had to give you permission to go do that or give you the resources to go do that look at um ethereum vitalic bter middle class kid out of Toronto gets together with eight friends boom they go create ethereum for no money with no cash no resources and boom it’s now a $400 billion ecosystem right um take my favorite example is this is the is a car that’s called the Vega it’s um it looks like a Lamborghini it’s the third fastest car in the world 900 horsepower this thing it’s being designed and engineered and built in Sri Lanka which is an island of fishermen and Farmers with no investors ecosystem experience education or track record I’m going to suggest that if you can do ethereum or if you can build the third fastest car in the world on an island I love showing it German car Executives that their brains literally melt when they see this right um I’m going to suggest you can do anything anywhere so now we can give people the tools to build radical new Solutions in vertical farming and a new battery technology all over the world and just let them go and they’ll figure it out and that’s why we’re trying to De that’s why the decentralized world is so important we need to decentralize Innovation as fast as possible and that Vector might pull us out as faster than the Mad Max vector so that’s my hope okay it might pull us faster than the Mad Max Vector okay so that’s the well it might get us to a a secure place faster than madmax will destroy us got it so we’re we are going into madmax territory but hopefully before that can completely destroy everybody we yeah for example we’re mostly in the middle east fighting for the last 100 years because of oil if we have solar energy delivering an energy abundance which will happen in the next four doublings about 8 to 10 10 years then you don’t need oil and therefore what are you fighting over right so that’s the hope now will we find other things to fight about absolutely because we’re human beings but but it’ll be less existential I hope if you look at the number of people dying in Wars today is actually incredibly small compared to 100 years ago 200 years ago 500 so the data is very clear the trend is very good uh but we need to get out of our current structures because our current structures will take us back my my biggest observation I’ve ever had about human beings is that human beings would much rather be comfortable than happy H can you give me more detail on that please yeah uh I may not Embrace uh healthc care Technologies they may deliver longevity because I’m so stuck in a judeo-christian religious framework of the world that heaven is a good thing and I want to get to heaven as fast as possible that feels like uh either familiarity and fitting in with a tribe comfortable comfortable I think of comfortable as I’m warm I’m safe I’m relaxed and both may be equally true and emotionally emotionally secure let’s use that as an easy moniker for comfortable right so uh you could put something amazing in front of somebody can can I tell you a story about the the Trump election one so I’m Canadian uh and my Canadian passport I’m like Golem with the precious like hold on to that thing as the US goes into all sorts of Chaos about 3 months after Trump is elected in 2016 I was in a in an Uber going to a conference and the health the driver is looking very unhealthy and I said are you okay uh how much do you drive he goes oh I drive 18 hours a day I said 18 hours a day um uh hopefully you’re not at the end of your shift because that’s not great for me as a passenger then he tells you this amazing story he was the CEO of a 300 person construction firm and uh they voted as a company should they get rid of corporate Healthcare or not and they vote as a he lobbies for it because less admin for the company bit more expensive for the people but more choice so he votes lobbies and they get rid of they vote and they get rid of corporate Healthcare three weeks later he’s not feeling well goes to the doctor and finds out he’s got multiple stage three cancers riddling his body and now he’s got a major problem because they got rid of the healthc care he can’t get covered because of the pre-existing conditions problem so one of those Pops at stage four and he’s a dead man so he literally starts planning his funeral en G gives away the company plans his end times like like really right there I’m like that’s incredible but you said that happened a few years ago you’re here now what happened he goes Obamacare passed I’m like okay he goes then I could get the insurance I got the treatment I saved my life I’m like wow what a journey to go through you think you’re going to die and then this thing happens and it saves your life we pull into the hotel I’m getting out of the car and kind of as joke I said I guess in this last election you must have voted for Hillary Clinton and he goes no I voted for Trump and I I was Gob smacked and I said but but you just said Obamacare saved your life he goes yeah it did completely 100% Obamacare they my left I said but then you voted for the guy that said he was going to get rid of it on his first day he goes yeah and he’s getting rid of it and now I’m back to planning my funeral I’ve never been able to square that Circle you didn’t ask him the followup question I was so if you could go back and do it again what would you do what was what would be the followup question you would ask I I would have asked um did you know that was going to be the outcome and if so did you there’s it that leads me to believe you have a base assumption that something trumps your own personal safety I I I I’ve never I’ve never I’ve I’ve I’ve sat with that like anecdote for years now I’ve never been able to figure that out where people will literally vote against their self-interest I don’t think anyone votes against their self-interest I think there are things that they care about that they may not be aware of yet so he may have a philosophical underpinning that he’s not even aware of a value system that drives him forward cuz he the very thing and look I don’t know this guy who knows but just hearing what I’ve heard that what I would say drives him is freedom over everything so hey we have a healthcare plan but I can make it better by giving people choice oh that bit me in the ass but my value system is still there Trump in his mind stands for more freedoms and so I’m going to vote for more freedoms even though it brings me now obviously I’d want to p push him and like really understand if that’s what he’s saying but I find most people are driven by a value system that they don’t understand but they are driven by it every choice they make yeah is an echo of a value system they don’t understand can I say something out of a little bit of anger at all times I’ve lived in eight countries around the world for more than a year each so I’ve seen a lot of different systems Healthcare governance Etc Canada Europe India you name it um this whole Vector of Freedom drives me crazy because it’s a complete it’s complete horseshit I feel less free in the US than most other countries in the world why are you here oh great place to do business fascinating it’s a great place to but I feel I’ll give you I’ll give you because here in the US the reason the US is successful is there’s a latent entrepreneurship that is unbelievably powerful and it optimizes in Silicon Valley where if you build a business and you fail we call it experience anywhere else in the bu in the world you build a business and a fails you’re a bad guy right and this is true around the world um so we have one Freedom the freedom to fail freedom to fail is a huge one and it’s institutionalized in bankruptcy laws it’s it’s you can fairly elegantly shut down a company here compared to other places I built a subsidiary for one of my businesses to do software development in India and the mothership failed and it orphaned the subsidiary right um it took me seven years to shut down that subsidiary in India Jesus because all the political the the regulatory blah blah blah crap just the thing am I likely to ever do another business in India again never because who wants to go through that hell right whereas in the US if something fails so we just merged by the way open EXO into a public company couple of weeks ago okay called genius group yeah so we’re super thrilled because it’s a global platform for teaching entrepreneurship and that’s the constituency that we’re most excited about so we’re very excited about the the future there um The Unbelievable uh potential of in Delaware when you are doing a merger or whatever there’s this incredible legal framework called the reparations act or something whereas if you haven’t done your corporate paperwork that you fogot about they give you one chance to kind of fix it all and come clean before you do a major transaction it’s fantastic right never is that happening anywhere else in the world uh because if you U do something in Paris and under French law and whatever later I’ll tell another quick story I had a French girlfriend when I was living in Paris for a few years and she was trying to get her identity card because the French government said everybody has to get an identity so she goes to the government says here’s my identity I want to apply and they’re like looking all the paperwork and they go problem she’s like what’s wrong she says well you were born in France you have a French passport your father was born in France but your mother was not born in France that’s a problem and she’s like but my mother was a French Citizen and the reason she wasn’t born in France was her her parents were the commanding forces for the French forces in Vietnam she was a military kid so she got born in Vietnam but she’s a French citizen her parent and they’re like problem so she’s like okay what do I do so they we need affidavits from all four of your grandparents saying that was actually our daughter da d da so she goes through all of this hell to get that and she shows it to them and they then puts it all together and they go problem she’s like what is it now they said your birth certificate has expired because in Fr it turns out a birth certificate only is valid for 3 months and then when you want one for some reason you have to apply to get a birth certificate so this is the bureaucracy that most of the world deals with that the US has cleaned up a lot of Canada is even better by the way because it’s a newer country okay so uh that lack that less bureaucracy makes it easy to build a business and do interesting new things and that’s why I live here I think by the way I’m going to say it also for the record I think the US Constitution is the most important document ever written but doesn’t have anything to do with freedom we’ll get to that in a minute yeah in what country did you feel the most free most European countries at an individual level I felt very free businesses nightmare because the Regulatory and cros and bureaucracy nightmare but I can drive without ever getting a speeding ticket in Europe cannot drive here without getting a speeding ticket is that the parameter Foredom I don’t know I’m just telling you paint paint a picture for me okay let let me give you another example if I’m anywhere in the world I never ever see a police car whereas here in the US I just see police cars all the time every day people get arrested in the UK a place where both of us have lived y people get arrested in the UK for a tweet oh that someone separate issues different set of I’m trying to pin you down on freedom because I really want to understand this yeah so uh look in India if I railed against the government I would be in big trouble right now so so freedom of expression is is a big problem around the world and I think freedom of expression is more powerful here I do there’s definitely Freedom here for freedom of expression more than anywhere else in the world okay but this whole Vector of the being more like the if you vote Republican because you want more freedom rather than less is I think just my personal view having lived um well so that to me I interpret very differently so that just sounds like I don’t think Republicans are the party of Freedom okay yeah but you said that you don’t feel as free in America as you did in European countries I feel yeah when I it’s it’s and there’s good and bad to this so I’ll give you an example on both sides okay so I came into the US once and my name is s smell I look a little dodgy right um and they go sir we have a problem uh your name matches the name of an Afghan warlord wanted in cbble for poppy trading and he’s wanted by the FBI who’s super likely to use his real name and I’m like okay he goes is you’re a vice president of Yahoo you’re clearly not a an Afghan warlord um I’ve got good news and bad news and I’m like what’s the good news so the good news is I’m pretty clear you’re speaking at conferences we’ve looked you up you’re not an Afghan world I said that’s great what’s the problem what’s the bad news he goes I’m not allowed to make that decision I have to check with was it’s like your coinbase thing I have to check with Washington it’ll take about four hours you’re going to miss your flight have a seat I’ll say you’re kidding and literally I got to the I was coming across the border enough times that I got to the point where the Border guys were like hey Mr ismile how are you please come aside for the security check because we have to check with Washington again that’s the bad side right because you can get stopped for all sorts of bizarre things I’ve never seen that anywhere else in the world okay here’s I’ll give you the good side um I had a very surreal incident in at 911 where one of my family members who psychic calls me up in the last two weeks of August and says what are you doing the first weeks of September uh 2001 I said well I’m working I’m doing stuff and she Saidi want you to leave I want you out of New York City and I’d kind of learned enough to kind of pay attention to this that I took a vacation and I was in Switzerland um and 911 happens and I found out later looked up later i’ canell a meeting in the World Trade towers that Tuesday morning to go on this trip um and just by accident I wasn’t there so now I have to get back because the company I’m the co of is in big trouble and I’m on the first plane that lands into jeffk uh after 911 the first flight the first plane that landed lands back in New York City um and you know selus smell I look a bit Middle Eastern my Canadian my US Visa for Canadian visa to the US was expiring the next day so I’m in deep trouble and I got to the border of guards and they could not have been more constructive and helpful and um sensible and common sense in that environment that I would ever have seen anywhere else in the world unbelievable so at at a very deep political level there’s lots of unbelievable freedoms which is why I think this country is very powerful however dayto day I feel less free H okay so here would be my take on that let me know what you think um it sounds like you have had run-ins that sound more racist to me then they sound anti- freedom but I get how if somebody’s stopping you every time you around uh because of your name because of your nationality whatever uh that would leave a horrific taste in my mouth now Canada throws people’s bank accounts because they donated money to a uh Rebellion a protest I don’t even know what to call it the trucker Convoy uh that was Ultra terrifying they have bills that compel speech so not just you can’t say this you must say this yes that’s insane from a freedom perspective if people vote for it they should get what they want but that certainly does not feel free uh so AG when I think about what freedoms matter for me what you’re calling freedom of expression what I will call free speech is is quite literally the ability to think and any country and that would be every country but America as far as I know does not have freedom of speech at which point they are 1984 style compelling the breakdown of your own ability to think properly yeah and then you stifle Innovation you look at China as the extreme where they’re shutting down the CEOs of the tech sector right they’re going to just kill Innovation completely shutting down they they are literally absconding with them taking them somewhere doing something that makes their expressions very different they come out and you don’t you know this is an important point and I I will totally you on this one okay um the ability to Buck against the status quo is bigger here than anywhere else in the world and therefore you get disruptive innovation and that fundamental Innovation is what steers the US forward in a very powerful way this is the whole root of American exceptionalism is you see a problem you fix it and I think that’s a magical magical thing and I think that’s why I said go back to my point of I choose to I could live anywhere in the world I choose to live here it’s a really amazing place however there’s lots of like I I was in a an Uber going from San Francisco to Marin once and the driver was African-American and we pull into Marin and there’s a police check at the side of the road and he literally starts freaking out like he’s shaking he’s completely completely spazzed out I’m like dude what’s wrong he goes you have no idea what I go through when police see me behind the wheel and I was like Wow and it’s just something I’m you know just sits with me uh I don’t I don’t have that problem yeah you unfortunately to me I’m glad you don’t have that problem but you’re what you were saying about uh immigration giving you a hard time you’re not the first person to talk about that where I thought you were going with 911 was since then like things have really just uh gone downhill that I’ve heard that from many people that have downhill in what sense of the you mean IM experience feeling wanted is probably how I would have framed it you framed it as Freedom which makes me think maybe I’m not mapping your mind quite correctly um so anyway that that part I certainly understand and has always rubbed me the wrong way yeah uh I tweeted something out today around something that America does this was actually Canadian though uh I become unhinged when Banks act like my money is their money I’m with you br and and by the way Canadians shutting down the bank accounts was a very bad black stain and I don’t think they’re going to get out from under that for a long time right because if I’ve got a lot of money am I going to go to the Canada and trust my money there I I need to be able to get to my money and this I think is an important part of maybe the most powerful aspect of web 3 why we’re so excited about it is that you can have full custodial of your money and your value and nobody can take it away from you I think that’s a really powerful place okay tell me how I’m wrong the government can and will take your web 3 Holdings people always talk about the wrench attack I can imagine no bigger wrench than the US government they will kneecap you they will imprison you they will do whatever they have to I don’t understand people who think crypto makes you immune from the government it the following thing is true you can abscond at night get on a boat and go to a country let’s say Estonia that does not have negative stance on crypto and because you can memorize your seed phrase you can escape with your money much easier so if I’m a German uh sorry if I’m a Jew in Germany and it’s like 1939 hey I’m very grateful for cryptocurrency because now I can just bail and I can take my wealth with me so do not get me wrong I love crypto the most It’s amazing I have so much invested in crypto I’m a Believer but when people act like governments can’t come in and take that from you that’s crazy town you can escape easier but the vast majority of people should the government government ever decide to they will seize the out of it give me so if I if my seed phrase is sitting in England and I don’t know it and I don’t have my sticks with me or anything like that what’s the government going to do put you in jail oh that’s fine they can take my freedom war well that’s but they will never get my Bitcoin man this is like your your uh Wallace moment where you’re being tortured to death I think I think you you take my life but you take my crypto this is the same argument I use against guns right people go I need guns because I need to be able to fight against a a government that comes after me yeah and I’m like they can just they have bigger guns they do but were the you talked about the Afghans I’m telling you a distributed Nation with a reason to fight and their own weapons and I have not thought a lot about the Second Amendment I’ll be the first to tell you but I’m like hey when I look at the the reason they said they gave us the first the second amendment I’m like yeah word it you need to be able to protect yourself from the tyranny of just Bureau make a I’m totally good with that can I just give you my beef on the Second Amendment because I’ve gone pretty deep on this um I and and I appreciate um the US enough that I’ve gone pretty deep on all the different structures Etc the US the Second Amendment says you shall not ban the right to bear arms in a well-regulated militia not that every Podunk guy should have a gun it should be in a well-regulated militia you Congress cannot pass a law that will stop a well-regulated militia from over if Congress oversteps that is the Second Amendment which is good we pull up hit hit us with the Second Amendment I need to see that it’s bringing home that I’ve actually never read actual people forget um people there you go a well-regulated militia shall not be infringed that’s the second amendment who it doesn’t say that it says a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed now I read that that is saying hey the people may need to build up a well-regulated militia therefore I’m not going to stop people from having guns so what I hear is guns come first militia comes second so I could very easily say people saying look I hope I don’t need to become a well regulated militia but I need the guns now oh I see you frame it that way okay I think that’s how it’s actually framed this is where we need Clarity right can we is that really that can’t be the whole thing no way yeah that’s the entire second amendment that is it is a single sent it’s a single sentence is that really true we’re watching my ignorance unfold in real time the the amendments are this short I thought these were like whole documents they get longer as go down the list scroll let me see these are scandalously short if you guys all knew this and never twet about it uh wow I can’t believe I didn’t know this okay yeah these are a little bit longer so this is an interpretation it’s still really short wow yeah these are verbatim this is the whole thing yeah the comment section is going to be bowning on me it’s unbelievably beautiful I’m going to say it again the US Constitution Bill of Rights the most beautiful documents ever created in crazy in the world right I always thought when people gave these bits they were just quoting from a much larger document no that it’s hilarious I can’t wait to see the Twitter comments as you say but so so this is some interpretation thing because there it’s a clause it’s not saying anybody can have rights and by the way that it says a well-regulated militia by the people um shall not be infringed so the people can have arms in a well-regulated militia you and I read this so differently this is utterly fascinating for everybody listening that is not familiar with this I want to read this one more time pay attention to the sequencing of these words a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state meaning you do not have a free state if you cannot protect yourself presumably from the tyranny of State exactly so so uh the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed that’s really interesting that to me you and I read something super so if you had a period there the right of the people to keep in bar arms shall not be infringed that would be fine but it’s not that it’s the well-regulated militia comma yeah so for if you if I mean I will say this feels like an admonition that we should have well-regulated militias standing which I don’t love that well that’s that’s okay that’s that’s I’m I’m good with that but guns should be operating inside a well-regulated militia not everybody in their grandmother and free conceal and all that stupidity I have now met a ton of the world’s most accomplished people and while intelligence definitely matters what sets them apart isn’t their IQ it’s that they understand that there is a system to success that exact system the one I’ve seen countless successful people deploy to tremendous effect is exactly what my wife Lisa billu detailed out in her best-selling book radical confidence she details what successful people know to their core radical confidence covers everything you need to know to efficiently move towards your goals there’s a reason that this book has topped the Amazon charts in multiple categories received countless five-star reviews outsold New York Times bestselling authors and helped countless people get unstuck and create momentum in their lives the 11 steps outlined in radical confidence actually work but no one can read the book for you or apply the lessons so pick up your copy today at radical confidence.com again that’s radical confidence.com get started on your dream life right now if you think about technology and you’re able to predict a traffic jam it’s like whoa that’s pretty insightful you may get the car wrong but you get the idea of mass transit and people will bump into each other and it will slow things down anyway so here are the the beautiful things that I think will uh AI will bring and if if you could let me know just yes or no life extension I think we will live longer okay uh I think while it probably might will take a while that AI will discover new physics yeah okay new physics I think will have as big of an impact on our lives as somebody please solve the ground unification theory in the wave particle duality of light I have a Physics degree talk to your boy Eric Weinstein he thinks he thinks he’s got it uh new governmental structures new and better better okay yeah policy making should be done with an AI for example if you want to drop inflation by 2% do you think it should be done by AI or should it be heavily Guided by it for example if you say hey we want to drop inflation by 2% a human being trying to make policy looking at all the data has no hope in making sense of anyone an AI could go oh do these three things and the human being can sense check it and go is that reasonable or not and then off you go I think we’re going to end up with the chess out come where the best chess players are an AI and a human being and that combination will be unbeatable because there’s still a sense of already have the answer to that and that it’s just AI can a human add anything to the greatest chest Common Sense are you sure oh yeah can we look that at we need to look that up I don’t buy for a second that a human can contribute anything to a chess the best chess player a human being and a chess AI will always beat an AI Magnus Carlson when teamed with chess AI beats chess AI by itself oh yeah yeah this okay that’s a noble thing we’re looking that up in the meantime uh do you think that we will get free or nearly free energy yes okay go deep on that one what does nearly free energy look like like why will that matter okay let me go let me give you a graph that I use in my presentations which is if you went back 500 years ago the cost of lighting up a building or a room was unbelievably High whale blubber you had to go kill whales and get the blubber back and light up a candle Game of Thrones technology then we found paraffin and we could create candles then we invented electricity and the price of electricity so can I step back one second this is there’s two really important things about technology that are important here that people should understand as we get into this number one for the first time in human history we have a dozen Technologies all operating on an exponential doubling pattern solar energy every 22 months drones are doubling every 9 months in their price performance Gene sequencing every 6 months Etc the res ution at which we can image the human brain is doubling every year for example we’ve never seen this many Technologies all move at an accelerated Pace at the same time so that’s one the second thing that I think is more profound that leads to that um um PDI comment I made earlier or um disruptive innov permissionless disruptive innovation is that throughout human history Advanced Technologies always cost a lot and only a government lab or a big corporate lab could do R&D launch new products and services today for the first time in human history Advanced Technologies are cheap AI is cheap uh sensors are cheap solar energy cheap the blockchain is open source anybody can now do disruptive innovation so that if you couple that with the idea that technology is a major driver of progress in the world it might be the only major driver of progress we’ve ever seen in the world now you have a dozen of them that cost very little the there’s going to be a camran explosion of 20 Gutenberg moments all coming down the pike so if we believe the technology is an a force enabler for good and and does delivers that then we’re in an unbelievable um um um Heavenly space for the future of innovation and all the things we’re going to come seeing out of it um how quickly we Implement that is the Big Challenge and that’s the problem now we’ve been fighting over oil for the last 200 years big Wars Etc because that was the cheapest form of energy we are moving now to solar energy being the cheapest form of energy and the Big Challenge is what covers the base load and I think small nuclear will do it uh as well as thorium reactors which are now safe nuclear reactors and over time we’ll find Sol Fusion but that’s going to be a while a ways away H uh so that gives us free energy yeah free energy means you can desalinate freely and that means if you have clean water you take out half of all the infectious diseases in the world so the Ripple effects are profound so energy in the next 5 to S years will go to nearly free okay okay so the desalinization is a great example I’m going to say and it’s possible I’m I’m missing something huge here but I don’t think so if energy costs drop to effectively zero the cost of everything else will drop dramatically yes because it takes energy to extract minerals from the ground uh most of the things you want in your life are about consuming energy so uh when you’re going to a restaurant and buying food you’re paying so much of that is the energy cost for transportation to get the meat from the farm to the actual restaurant or the cost of the energy to freeze the food it’s like the number of things that come down to energy there’s a guy named Arthur Hayes I don’t know if you know who he is Arthur Hayes amazing guy I’ve been on the show a couple times amazing amazing and he said everybody should think of their lives in terms of how much energy how many kilowatts essentially can you purchase with your salary everything else is going to fluctuate but that’s the one that’s going to that metric yeah super brilliant and so he doesn’t look at how much am I making he’s only looking at how much does that buy me he said it reduces a lot of the illusion of oh my wages are going up sure but if your wages don’t match the rise and the cost of energy you could actually be making more dollars technically but losing purchasing power in energy which matters more than people understand energy touches every little corner of your life the cost of your shampoo is tied the cost of your water is tied just energy energy everywhere energy the modern world brought to you by oil so the best metaphor I’ve seen for this whole transition comes from Lawrence Bloom one of my mentors he said to me you must have paid a lot of money in another dimension to be living this life and I was like damn I think you’re right so this is his metaphor he he looks at at Humanity as different stages of Rocket lifting off Earth okay so when you first have a rocket lifting off Earth you need a really big fat booster rocket to get your the enough energy to get you out of the gravity well and so that’s the that’s oil that’s capitalism fossil fuel capitalism has been an unbelievable enabler to lift the world out of poverty deliver all sorts of unbelievable Innovation to us products and services etc etc however when you have a rocket and it’s taking off at a certain altitude you have to jettison that booster rocket because that well if you don’t let it go it’s going to pull you back down if then you jettison it you take on a much more lighter craft that takes you to the next level so the question is we are in that transition point where we need to jettison fossil fuel and jettison capitalism would I would put it in another way and find that lighter craft and what is that lighter craft is now the interesting question for me going forward but it’s a really important metaphor because it doesn’t um deny the benefits we’ve gotten from cheap oil over the last few hundred years absolutely delivering unbelievable benefits into the world yeah very well said okay so that is a very much tip of the iceberg in terms of all the amazing things that I think AI will help us race to timelines we will inevitably get wrong um I like to give timelines though as a way of anchoring people around my thinking as of today with full knowledge that I know whatever timeline I give is is going to be broken sure um but I’ll I’ll walk you through a very quick breakdown of the phases that I see over the next 10 years um and let me know what you think about this so uh over the next three years it’ll be marked by things are getting easier so cost of energy is going down you can do more with less um some amount of your work if you’re a graphic designer will be done by AI like some of the things that adobe’s doing is just unbelievable and so that’s going to be happening all over in law in healthcare and just things will get easier um existential dread is going to set in for the young because of what I call um the famous quote from Gretzky don’t skate to where the puck is Skate to where the puck is going to be that used to be tremendously good advice hey you’re going to graduate in year 2030 so don’t don’t think about what’s happening today think about 2030 but now that puck is teleporting yeah so it’s very hard to predict where that’s actually going to be when you graduate I think that’s really going to cause a high rate of anxiety and depression among the young um I think what I call the pure human movement is going to start so there’ll be this sense of like oh we reject any brain computer interface we reject anything where um AI you’re already seeing this in the art movement so as much as I literally as the words adobe’s doing amazing things is coming out of my mouth I know a portion of my audience is going to attack me because they are absolutely livid at the way that adobe has trained their things and they feel like they’ve just been stolen from so the pure human movement is going to begin so this this creation brought to you by only humans no AI touches whatsoever uh there’s going to be a softening of the job market because I mean I’ll just speak for myself I have definitively hired less people because we been deploying AI as much as we can yes all right so that’s three years nothing insane you’re going to have like chat GPT moments where it was like huge for a minute seemed like it was going to revolutionize everything but then you’re kind of like did it uh five years the riots begin but they’re going to be minor uh it’s going to be people like um I the whmo car that got vandalized right so weo self-driving car there’s no driver in it’s crazy when you see them in real life uh one they smashed its Windows lit it on fire maybe not because it was self driving maybe not because of what it represents or maybe precisely because of what it represents I think you’re going to start seeing more of that and that’s already happening uh deaths of Despair are going to go up we’re already seeing that in the US um you have there’s a breakdown of the countries um listed in order of the number of suicides per thousand yeah it’s bad it’s it’s pretty crazy that it does not map to affluence yeah so you have some really um poverty stricken countries not doing well and you have really affluent countries not doing well so money is not going to solve the problem so as AI unleashes everything is getting cheaper it’s not going to solve the problem uh because of meaning and purpose which we will certainly get more into yes um I think the pure human movements starts actually um breaking machines so whether they’re Whos whether they’re those little robots that W Yep they’re they’re going to go after those there’s going to be a massive job transition happening so you’re going to get a ton of graduates going into the world like hey there’s no jobs you’re going to see people shift into more for um trades so being a plumber and things that it’s going to be harder at least for now before robots hit uh regulation is going to start to escalate so the masses begin to panic they begin voting people into power on this issue will you stop or at least dramatically slow AI I think that’s going to really ramp up in the 5-year time frame uh and then in the seven-year time frame AI is going to be better at most things than humans I think we’re going to see a horrifying spike in either it will either uh in fact it’ll be both you’ll see a tremendous spike in deaths of Despair because people AI will just be better than you at everything and that will be really damaging for the young who try to look out and say well if I got really good at this thing it will matter to humanity and I think they’ll come up empty and unfortunately even though we probably will give Ubi of some kind it’s just not going to solve the problem because I think humans need meaningful Pursuit and if they don’t need to win at a thing to win money I think they’ll actually have a problem and hey look at the homelessness Cris when you give people money and you don’t regulate them some portion not most nowhere near but some people just go cool I’m just going to do drugs all day uh the prum thing is is going to riot at scale uh you hit 10 years you get a real bifurcation in humanity some break it’s just pure human and some are like I’m all cyborg all the time uh which if people don’t know right now today as we’re recording this the first person to get a neuralink brain computer interface has already happened it’s already happened this guy beat his dad now that’s his dad but beat his dad at a game Mario Kart with his mind he did not touch a controller he can’t even move his arms okay and he it is insane when you see him play because they show you this uh one of these is being played by somebody using their arms and the other is being played by somebody just with their mind you can’t tell the difference it is unbelievable so anyway you can aim the shells oh God I was blew me away so you’re going to get 10 years from now you’re going to have people that were quadriplegics that are now moving about with an exoskeleton or maybe even able to bypass the break and just literally control their own limbs again it’s going to be pure Insanity uh you’re now going to be hitting where energy is just ridiculously low uh healthc care is going to be unbelievable you’re going to have magic AI doctors but you’re also going to have sex bots you’re going to have just an absolute cratering of traditional Human Relationships yes and this is where the tralization will really be important because otherwise people are just going to stop having kids because you’re having sex with your sex bot who knows you perfectly and can morph into whatever you want that day oh God it’s going to get so weird all right what’ I get wrong oh um so I think I it’s entirely plausible as a scenario right and it’s if you’re a futurist you’re always looking at scenario plannings and and as a vector that’s completely accurate I disagree with a couple of things I think I disagree with the kids will be upset about this I think the kids in our framing the kids will be upset about this but kids natively grow up in the model the world that they’re in and they just take it as normal how did we break them so much with social media Ah that’s a different problem that’s fixable and I think we’ll be fixing that pretty soon I think you you get them off social media is the problem it’s too much of an addictive uh sugar drug type model for what for the utility that it’s delivering and that’s a regulatory problem um the governments have been incredibly laxed I think in in navigating that I see the AIS being used by the social media companies as proof of what AI does in practice that feels like an AI problem to me yes Tik Tok will suck you into a Vortex it’s but you know my my 12-year-old comes to me and he goes dad um I haven’t had a chance this week to play fortnite because I’ve been this had a basketball turn we here and we went there he goes I feel a lot better my my my friends are up playing I’m not going to do it I’m going to try like he goes how do you you know what do you want me to do with this like it’s so weird I said you know what give it another day without it and another day and just take it one day at a time and see how you feel and it’s incredibly inspiring to hear him reflect on it and do that now not that everybody’s doing that or can or will or whatever but I think we’ll figure that out we’ve always had this problem okay when we were growing up this problem okay uh um the parentals not uh understanding what their kids are going through and trying to fix the kids when I was growing up there was like they were like get off the phone what the hell are you doing you don’t need to be on the phone for hours with your friends etc etc right um there’s lots of constructive ways in which you can use technology and some of what’s coming in a very powerful way I’ll give you an example I have a friend who has four kids uh for girls and and when he was growing bringing them up he at an early age from like five six seven years he started watching reality TV shows with them Survivor and all the weird ones I’m like you watch those uh with your kids he goes yeah I sit down with them because when they go to the playground they’ve got one instance of a bullying or something or some when I sit with them day after day and they watch this they’re getting a lesson on human nature I sit with them so that we could talk about what’s going on we start predicting and all those four girls have become unbelievable leaders in their own right over the over the years they’re now about 20 years old each because he had the foresight to go be with them and bring them along that journey and they’ll learn faster because they’ll assemble the knowledge faster Douglas Adams who wrote hitchhiker’s guy to the Galaxy I think said this the best he said anything in the world when you’re born that’s normal anything that’s invented when you’re young that’s a career and anything invented after you’re 35 years old is just bad just bad for the world and I think that’s a great framing for what’s happening today we freak out about what the younger kids because we don’t understand it and we don’t know how they’re going to adapt to it and I think we just have to trust them that they will figure it out we figured it out you know our parents were freaked out about us going to movies and playing video games and whatever and we figured it out and I think the kids today we’ll figure it out again take me with my optimism bias because I have a deep optimism bias around some of this stuff I want people to take me with my optimism bias as well because I am entirely swung that way and yet even with that bias I’m going to ask the following question do you think there is such a thing as a rate of change so rapid that children cannot adapt that children cannot adopt that’s a great question um yes and that would be what we would call The Singularity right so we are hitting that right now in AI does your audience know what the singularity is uh you should give it to them and you should also tell me what year you think we hit that okay I don’t believe in it by the way so I heard you talk on this so but give it to us all the whole shebang so verer Vin Co this phrase the technological singularity and he basically said the minute machine intelligence overtakes human intelligence then we take on a technological evolutionary path not an biological evolutionary path and what the minute that happens we are complete the world is completely different and Ray popular Ray kwell popularized that as the singularity and wrote this book called The singularities near in 1999 positing that in 2045 we would get to that point where machine intelligence overtakes human intelligence okay I disagree with this for two levels okay first and I’ve had lots of conversations about with Ray on this uh the first is that we don’t know what intelligence is um the IQ test measures two aspects of intelligence the speed of thought processing and the ability to match Concepts across Frameworks but we have many dimensions about a dozen other facets of intelligence like linguistic intelligence spatial intelligence um emotional intelligence this concept of spiritual awareness or the concept of presence the Eastern concept of being present none of that are reflected in an IQ test and that whole sum of the parts is what we call intelligence so my first B issue with it is what the hell do you mean by intelligence right and the second issue I have is what do you mean by overtaking because the minute I can prescriptively describe a task an AI robot is going to do much better than me anyway and so let them do it and therefore it frees me to be much more creative and so on and I think what we’re doing is we’re merging with technology and this is where Ry and I definitely do agree uh where you’re emerging with technology such that The Human Experience is augmented and Amplified the fact that I have a SmartPhone I would I would argue makes me more human than less human because of my memories in there freeing up lots of neurons to do other work I can communicate with my son for free around the world which is unbelievable I can project empathy around the world which is incredible so I have I’m more human with my device than without it and I think that’s a powerful commentary for where intelligence goes most people worry about AI is oh my God it’ll come take come on and take over the world and will destroy us and if we’re lucky we’re pets and if we’re unlucky we’re food it’s kind of like pretty much always goes that way Skynet Terminator The Matrix but we actually see is We’re augmenting The Human Experience with technology at an amazing level um and I think that’s very very inspiring we’re more human now so let’s let’s look at education for example over the last or jobs over the last 200 years we roboticized our employees said that’s your job function do that at one job you’re an audit accountant you do Audits and you do it repetitively and we’re going to measure You by how quickly and how effectively and how fast and and mistake-free are your Audits and not your bonuses based on that so we turn people into robots people on me assembly line stamping out widgets now with the Advent of AI and Robotics and so on people are becoming much more human again the most valuable employees or colleagues you have in any company are the people that learn the fastest and that’s a magical thing to be now as AI comes along the big challenge is and I would argue that in the concept of what you would call the singularity in AI we’ve hit the singularity the pace of change in AI is now so fast you can’t absorb it by the time you’ve you’ve made an investment your your investment is out of date and so this is a huge structural challenge with this it’s it’s I’ll give you an analog in the in the education world if you’re doing a master’s degree in Neuroscience today by the time you finish your master’s degree you’re out of date because computational Neuroscience is overtaking the field so fast that it’s it’s making the old ways irrelevant very quickly so our the structural issue we have in education is we can’t update our educational Frameworks quickly enough to deal with all the new changes and AI I think is is the epitome of that right now um and this is where I made the comment Elon tweeted this little video a couple of me last weekend saying there’s no mechanism that we can see by which you can regulate AI at all at all you’d have to to regulate every line of code written and I just don’t see that happening that’s when you really have issues with Freedom by 10 years from now you’re now in 2034 uh Elon made a quip that in the 2032 election it won’t be a question of what human will win it will be a question of what AI now assuming that he’s kidding haah but that he’s directionally indicating it um I think that Rey is going to be right by 2029 which is is well under my 10-year time frame here uh you’ve got AI is just smarter than any single human so that means AI is going to be better than every human at anything then it becomes a question of did before we get there did they start having existential dread based on the rate at which things are changing who’s they the kids yeah kids I I think this impacts everybody but kids will be the most paralyzed because they don’t have the World experience to know oh I can navigate this way I deeply disagree with this whole smarter than human beings thing okay so we’re again going back to the definition of intelligence we don’t have a clear definition of intelligence okay so because now you have said if something can be defined I forget the exact word you use but if it can if a task can be defined by the minute I can prescriptively describe a task yep and AI name a thing that you think humans will continue to be better than than AI at in 10 years um empathy creativity humor um there’s lots of domain spiritual awareness the only one of those I’m going to give you is humor maybe and they probably get thrash oh they’ll get way better at jokes sure then what’s left what do you mean well but the the but now you see what look okay let me let me describe what I’m we need to get clear on what we’re talking about intelligence okay so we have this concept of intelligence and we think some things will be smarter than us but in what way is it faster is it better is it more complete that’s one challenge right CU there’s all these other facets of intelligence that make us human beings that are different common sense for example Etc then you bleed into AGI you have narrow AI which always is going to be better than a human being because it’s anti-lock breaking systems credit card fraud detection we use narrow AI to run the world today if you took that out the world would just grind to a halt very quickly then we get to AGI which AR IAL general intelligence the ability to match Concepts across Frameworks and that’s what people talk about I think when people talk about intelligence today that AI once they achieve AGI will be able to do tasks better than human beings okay now actually look at this as an optimistic thing because there’s a lot of human white colar drudgery that AIS will take over okay I’ll give you a small example I’m a booking agent for clubm Resorts and a family calls and they go we want we have three families we want two joining rooms and and the kids have to be all on the same floor and and I I have to go do a lot of crappy work to figure out how I’m going to manage that permutation and there’s a ton of stupid that goes into figuring that out a t takes a ton of my time that’s where I think AI will shine a lot but it’ll allow me to then Focus my time on real problem solving or areas where they’re less good and yes over time we won need that human a booking agent because the aoi will do a lot of it anyway okay but that’s been a steady Vector forever the many you have a concrete truck it replaces 100 concrete workers shoveling concrete you you free them up to do more high order things and and so on so the question is what work will there be there to do and I think this is the really big question that we don’t have a CL that’s where I think the the interesting question is the rest of it I think is is fear mongering to some extent and by the way I see AGI just like intelligence kind of we had the Turing test that kept Shifting the goalpost and then all of a sudden we passed it a long time ago and we’re like oh not a big deal I think AGI will be like that we we’ll have AGI and everybody go oh my God we have AGI and then it’ll become oh this is okay and it’ll be normal and I think AGI is bleeding into what we would call Consciousness and there again you have a big definition problem and a test problem we don’t have a definition for Consciousness we don’t have a test for Consciousness right a subset of Consciousness is self-awareness and you look like you’re self-aware so I tribute rute self-consciousness self-awareness to you I feel like I’m I’m self-aware but my wife disagrees so it’s really hard to even have the conversation because we don’t have a clear definition of this and so and and when you bleed into those areas where I think things get really really interesting um quick anecdote I remember we had a robotics expert one of the NASA astronauts was used to build robots when we were doing Singularity and I asked them a question I said look is there a system in the world that has the inputs and outputs and enough processing power that it might generate self-a awareness um and it might suddenly go oh I’m a system right and and he’s like huh let me think about that so he goes off a couple of days he comes back and he goes I think I have an answer I’m like okay he goes Traffic Systems I said really he goes yeah he goes in my opinion I’ve thought about this for a couple of days Traffic Systems have enough inputs and outputs and processing capability that one day it might generate self-awareness and might go oh I’m a traffic system right and the question two questions emerged at that point what would it do and how would we know and the problem is we wouldn’t know so I think when we hit AGI we won’t know when an AI hits that point we won’t know when an AI hits Consciousness because we would have a test a test for it and as like and and just to Su help this whole thing like R kural put it most brilliantly he was asked once about Consciousness and he goes language is a really thin pipe to discuss Concepts as complex as that Ray is brilliant I love Ry the most he was the very first audio book I ever read so I will forever have uh a Deb of gratitude I’ve interviewed him I’ve Had The Good Fortune of dining with him but that is a cheap excuse not to think about a very hard problem it it is it is uh but it’s a valid observation we struggle a great deal with language so I think what ends up you have to really you have to really think back when you talk all about all this stuff intelligence cautious you have to go back to what is a human being and this is where I become really fascinated I’ve been fascinated for a long time in metaphysics and I’ve been fascinated by what is The Human Condition and I have actually a diagram that that that I think summarizes this Nic I want to wrap this point first that is 100% an area that we will touch on before we go so I have really unique insights there um but first I want to say I think Consciousness is a red herring okay and I want to reorient people what we’re talking about is are are we all going to struggle as AI gets better than us at everything I think kids will be the canary and the coal mine you think kids will be the far more resilient your argumentation and please if I say this in a way that you don’t recognize or think is uncharitable let me know um but that we don’t even understand what intelligence is these systems might become conscious but we’ll never know because there’s no way for us to engage with that kids are going to get it they’re going to use AI in the way that they use it they’ll step away from it when like you’re son with fortnite when it stops being useful in his life he’s going to step back people need to understand my base assumption that I think the brain developed so that humans could move why did humans need to move so they could take control of their environment why did they need to take control of their environment so they could survive yes so then the game from an uh evolutionary algorithm standpoint becomes to keep this thing alive long enough to have kids it have kids and the the granddaddy of all the algorithms that it planted in our brains is the desire for Meaningful Pursuit both of those words are important meaningful means I can draw a straight line between going out and killing this thing and the survival of the people that I love so yo like this really mattered it was a whole thing and so when we do it we’re celebrating and we feel all the neurochemistry that we want to feel this is awesome that is Meaningful Pursuit this is why when you have a job that feels like a dead end and it’s not going anywhere and all it does is let you pay your rent it’s not interesting now once AI becomes it crosses the uncan Valley and it’s no longer like Chad gbt giving you the lamest dad jokes ever and it is Blade Runner and I without doing a special test where I put a thing up against your iris I can’t tell if you’re real or not and in fact you don’t even know if you’re real or not now again Consciousness is a red herring okay who cares it is just like hanging out with your friend except for one really brutal fact they’re better than you at everything possible and so now it’s like well this really sucks because meaningful Pursuit would be that I need to go do a thing to help me and mine but energy costs have dropped to zero because these things are so damn good at everything that now why would I go do that because we can just get an AI to do it way better than me yes that kid when he’s or adult when they’re interfacing with an entity that is better than them at everything they’re going to be like huh how do I have meaningful meaningful Pursuit and the answer will be you get meaningful pursuit in the next life and I just need you to do these things and you’re going to have meaning today even though we don’t need you to go capture an animal cuz all that’s taken care of but I’m going to give you this path to meaning through this ancient book through this tribe and all of that and bro it’s going to get weird and I lay all these pieces out on the table for one reason and one reason only because again I’m wearing a shirt that is neon future because I believe technology is going to make our lives better but one of the earliest things we talked about is those spikes on a graph that is human nature that is an idea set moving through the medium of the human mind and the way humans act as a collective and if we plant wise ideas now if we warn people about this stuff if we talk about hey here’s how you Branch to Mad Max here’s how you Branch to Utopia let’s make sure that we’re all hyper aware of how the human mind breaks bad and how it can break good then there’s one last thing that I have to say because I find very smart people like yourself are not facing a very ugly truth and that very ugly truth is this is this is a paraphrase but it’s going to get really damn close uh you said that people will be able to step into a higher order of existence engagement with the world as all the sort of menial stuff is taken away now the reason that feels true to you is you are very smart the bad news is that human intellect is on a gigantic scale and Einstein who’s only like a 165 IQ and I say only on purpose because the smartest person living I think is a 220 so uh and I mean that literally in the the actual Webster dictionary definition is like somebody with an 83 IQ I think so the difference between that person and Einstein if I remember right it’s like 2.6 or something like that uh in terms of the difference in IQ and it’s almost that again between Einstein and the smartest person okay an AI by according to Ray kerswell is going to be a million times smarter than you so it’s like bro if the difference between Einstein and a is 2.6 and we’re talking about something that is a million times smarter than you I will hypothesize that we have officially hit the point at which the rate of change will be so rapid that you you can’t absorb it and so now your only answer is and again you need only look at Elon Musk who’s doing all of this stuff in plain view you have to merge with technology yeah to keep up to have meaningful for Meaningful Pursuit you have to be able to keep up with them from just a raw horsepower perspective but again Society will break along those lines people that will and people that won’t and if that does not strike people as to quote you from the beginning the most dramatic seismic shift in human existence ever then I I I I’m at a loss to help them understand change wonderful articulation I think that was a really great and very tight concise articulation of a future and there’s absolutely valid points that you make all the way up and down I have a couple of Point issues one is um when you say kids will be despairing because they won’t be able to do things as good as an AI I disagree with that because I don’t think they’ll dispair they’ll go oh that thing’s better I’ll do this I’ll I’ll go do something else or I’ll figure something else out so that’s I don’t think they’ll go to despair they will innovate their way out of the problem innovate all they just adapt kids are adaptive they just figure it out and they just adap so explain to me how they’ve adapted to social media well badly because it’s it’s it’s sucked up their minds but that’s true why they adapt poorly to social media but wonderfully to this really brutally intelligent AI yeah so now that becomes how do you guide them and how do you manage them and how do you parent them Etc and many cases are doing a very bad job because they’re leaving them to the social media and that’s just up their brains okay um however there’s some really interesting vectors coming out of that there’s a woman out of Chicago called Nicole dry who looked at this device Den addiction problem and social media addiction problem he said you know the problem is not the fact not we’re looking at the wrong problem here the problem is their high order thinking is not triggered they’re passively consuming they’re just viewing a screen and they’re not really they so how do we trigger that if we can then it doesn’t matter what they watch so she created a program called screen smart where they take kids through a a little program and uh you can literally boils down to if you as a parent sit with your child twice a week for 15 minutes and ask them a set of leading questions for example you’re watching a movie why do you think the characters are doing what they’re doing what do you think the director was trying to achieve with this plot what would you do direct differently if you were the director if you do that twice a week for 15 minutes it turns out that even when they’re on their own their higher order thinking starts buzzing and they now actively engaging with the content they’ve Not Taken like a few tens of thousands of kids through this program it’s unbelievable the outcomes they’re seeing from this they’ve broken the addiction problem their vocabularies are increased like 86% or something crazy like this it’s just so I it’s one of those where I think we’ll figure it out just like we figured out um how once we realize that the the addiction patterns of social media we need to regulate it and say like not that it’s a great example but in China they’re saying you can’t have social media until you’re a certain age because your brain has to be more fully formed Etc I think we’ll figure that part out it’s just there’s an arms race problem always in this stuff where something happens and then we figured out the consequences and then we fix it Etc um the reason I’m tend to be optimistic is when you bring more intelligence into the world the world just becomes better uh now we do have definitely the paperclip problem which is in the extension of your AI um uh um talking about training and education Etc the the the you know the paper clip problem right you say do a make all the paper clips and it sucks all the energy out of human beings because it wants to it gets lost in it gets lost in the letter of it objective the I think that’s a huge danger okay because two inflection points came out when we um allowed AIS to code and gave them access to the code base and the second one was when they got access to the internet and those two put together mean that AI can program pretty much whatever it wants and there’s no question there’s going to be bad agents out there trying to do these things in a particular way I still tend to be optimistic because as the cost drops the reasons to fight drop etc etc I don’t see the Terminator Matrix scenarios which are always a Hollywood thing I do agree we need to me blend with technology and we need to merge with AI because it’ll just make all of our bodily functions better an AI deeply embedded into my body would be fantastic because I’d reach for a donut and it would say whoa whoa whoa I’m still metabolizing your coffee please wait 10 minutes and for God’s sakes don’t have the donut have something else right um by the way it’s amazing what you and Lisa are doing across the board with with nutrition and all the wellness stuff and the women’s empowerment it’s just one of the most important vectors that we could pursue in terms of uh helping human beings get more better and human more human and more about the world side thing um but in terms of AI specifically I think we’ll end up merging with it in that particular way because what’s going to happen is an AI is it and you saw this in Star Trek next Generation what did data want more than anything else he wanted to be human he wanted to experience what it meant like to be human and I think that’s where it’ll go Lord knows I hope you’re right okay so let’s talk about what it means to be human then what what is it the data wants give me your base assumptions on um on what makes somebody human okay so if I step back a second I’m totally fascinated by metaphysics meaning what is reality made of okay and I’ve been fascinated by for a very long time do you mean that like at the physics level at the physics yeah like what is reality made of we have experiences we have objective facts like what is the building blocks of reality like actual SpaceTime corse physics studies reality yep metaphysics thinks about what is reality made of like what are the billing blocks of the comp I’m not Crossing aasm can we look up a definition of metaphysics please uh well it’s it’s the metal doesn’t matter but I’ve been I’ve been fascinated by it in terms of we for example most of our philosophies operate on a subjective set of metaphysics or an objective set of metaphysics okay okay so our metaphysics that we run the world on today is a subject object metaphysics either I have a subjective experience about the world or there’s an object of reality and we try and measure that those are the two points um we’ve kind started over the last 20 30 years to graduate past that to say there’s a different type of it’s an experiential uh basis for reality that is sitting doesn’t fit there’s lots of aspects about the world that aren’t entirely subjective and aren’t entirely objective like moral values for example many of us may share the same moral values but they’re not scientifically measurable right so there you have an example of or love or emotions Etc where lots of people can share the same emotion but you can’t objectively measure them yet in in a particular right so there’s a whole modality in in the metaphysics world looking at you need to look at reality as a phase shift from uh um um potential to realized or unknown to known would be a good way of doing it a good metaphor would be if I have a blocker marble in front of me and I’m a sculptor until I start chipping away that thing is completely unrealized potential it could be anything then I start chipping away and I’m form it into the shape of a head now it’s it’s realized now I can break it it and I can break that value but I’ve created value I’ve taken something that was in my head and instantiated into that thing and there’s a phasing of how the world may is working they we really getting pretty interested by in terms of describing reality overall I got down this rabbit hole because of the quantum mechanics issue uh when you study Physics you do three years of classical physics and then in third year they give you quantum mechanics and and they tell you everything you learned is out out the window and you’re like come on you you just had me do millions of exams and study millions of chapters and now you’re telling me everything is out the window so I I went down the rabbit hole of of quantum mechanics and and and the subjective nature of reality and so on so uh and I started researching this and for me when I think about Humanity uh I came up with a diagram which has three concentric circles in it so picture three concentric circle with with the middle is just your soul shining out your soul is just trying to express um and it hits some layers it hits a boundary condition which is your subconscious and there’s gaps when it can shine through that subconscious and there’s gaps when it can’t shine through the subconscious and when you transcend and you hit get through that you have your conscious self and there’s again gaps areas where it gets stopped and areas where it shines through so it’s almost like dashed lines in two two concentric circles around a solid dot the soul is just trying to express it’s just trying to be whatever your definition of soul is and again we have a definition problem but it’s trying to be it’s energy uh unconditional love would be a good metaphor for it it’s just trying to express it might hit subconscious blockages in that expression like I don’t think I’m good enough or some of the limiting beliefs that Tony Robbins talks about if you can cut through those you may have conscious limitations like hey I really want to play the guitar but I’ve got to feed my kid first and you make conscious choices as to how much you’re sometimes it comes all the way out and that’s when you see true flow States when you see pure spiritual experiences uh Messi playing soccer is an example of somebody there’s no separation or Michael Jordan playing basketball it’s going straight from Soul coming out with no u hindrances along the way right um so our job as human beings as I put it in the context of this diagram is either rotate that Kaleidoscope so your soul can shine out Sor I want to make sure so I got soul conscious self what was the third soul and then the next level is your subconscious L got it got it got it okay Soul subconscious and then conscious okay and then there’s other layers past that like family and culture and other things but but for the most important of those two and our job as a human being is to rotate that subconscious and conscious so that my inner soul shines out Tiger Woods playing golf is a good any artist on stage can you give me so remove this from the level of metaphor okay uh and take me so uh just to crystalize make sure I understand the metaphor here would be the dotted lines if they are not aligned you might go through one level but then you’re going to hit the wall of the next or they might be aligned such that you don’t even make it the soul doesn’t even get to the subconscious it just hits something and comes back yeah what what are the dotted lines in reality the dotted lines are your subconscious belief systems that you’ve built up over growing up as a kid so for example if uh um growing up in Canada I thought there’s no way I’m playing basketball at any level because I’m Indian and I Indians can’t play basketball so that’s limiting belief so I I didn’t try hard enough at basketball until I got a little bit early older and then I was like this I can try for this I can go for this um was basketball already in your soul no it was just a thing to do but it was an expression of me at some level I ended up on the high school team but it’s Canadian basketball so it’s much lower level than as my old business partner you say oh you’re Canadian you’re like the junior varsity team the the Raptors are Furious right now they are very very unhappy yes I agree anyway um uh so you your your soul may Express and be hit by subconscious beliefs that stop you okay um it’s also a protective mechanism when something really bad happens in the world you want to protect the soul so let’s say you’re you go back 50,000 years of of families at home the husband goes out on a hunt never comes back and the woman needs some psychological blockage to protect from that trauma so the subconscious has a two-l filter protect allowing this to come out and allowing stopping bad things coming from the ins outside okay then you have your conscious blockages that say I really want to do this but really I need to do this first and you’re making triaging non-stop as a human being and so I think of the human condition as either rotate that Kaleidoscope so your soul shines out in whatever form it’s meant to shine out in or dissolve those barriers so that more of it expresses so if you look at a Gandhi or a Christ or a Dalai Lama done the work to to dissolve all of their subconscious barriers and their conscious barriers and they’re just shining and you see that that’s why you always see a Halo in religious diagrams Etc and we pay to see this by the way when an a great artist is on stage there’s they’ve trained and trained and trained for years to go a full expression of their soul out onto the field or out onto a stage or whatever can you define what the soul is it’s very hard I think of it as energy uh you could think of it as just pure love uh I think of it as pure expression so in this framework you can’t have a bad Soul like evil is evil is the blockage of light it’s not the darkness uh so in this metaphor um uh evil would be the lack of light not the fact that you can be bad so the the soul is just Shining Light it’s just trying to express okay so everybody every one of us has parts of ourselves that we just want to Express we just want to be okay so I feel like we’re switching between uh discussions of physics So when you say energy I think of physics uh Shining Light I think of physics a radiating body where photons are actually flying away from said body uh do you mean that the soul is a physical thing that actually radiates okay so in in non um in non- esoteric terms what is the soul I this is a language problem it’s a piece of Consciousness or a metaconsciousness there’s two there’s two classical definitions of Soul or Consciousness in this model one is there’s an emergent property coming from inside that just needs to get out just needs to express itself is it an emergent property from the brain uh I think it’s from a collective Consciousness and we don’t know where Soul sits it kind it’s kind of sits everywhere sits makes it sound like it does have a physical manifestation it it manifests physically definitely expresses physically do only humans have a soul I I don’t believe so I think any living being has is Choy has a soul I think I think so in a weird way so Deepak chopras I think puts it best he says look there’s a global field of Consciousness and you’re an instantiation out of that Consciousness and what are you trying to do you’re trying to get back to that Consciousness so dualist are you a dualist I’m somewhat of a dualist yeah okay I’m I’m kind of an agnostic in this like I’m again I don’t know what we mean by Soul it’s a very hard problem to get into that definition right um uh you have religious um metaphors for it you have energetic metaphors forward you have Eastern metaphors we talked about reincarnation the last time we were we on this program so there’s lots of ways of the Soul can express through multiple lifetimes if you believe in that model um um but you’re progressing through different different stages and and basically just expressing so if you think of a a tennis player feder Roger feder he he really his soul really wanted to play tennis and he found a mechanism where mozar playing piano um and it goes from a junior to a young professional to getting on the tour and then make winning championships Etc and just keeps going at it and add it and add it until he can get as far as he can get and that’s the that that basic motivation and that quest for just getting better and wanting to experience what it’s like to win win Wimbledon or whatever I think of his soul what about people um take somebody like Andre Agy uh who absolutely hated his life was completely miserable or Steve Martin greatest comedian of all time when he was doing it and there’s literally a movie he’s in the the theater watching a movie in England and the character on the screen says it’s from uh the movie Fame I just just want to be Steve Martin and Steve Martin’s watching that going you don’t want to be Steve Robin Williams I mean yeah so these people are profoundly unhappy but they are from the outside they’re the people that you would say their soul is shining the brightest I’m saying their soul is definitely shining out I didn’t say they were the the the happiest because um take tiger take um Tiger Woods as a good example right in the realm of golf he’s aligned his Kaleidoscope perfectly so that when he’s playing golf when he was younger he was like completely there and there’s this unbelievable presence that you felt when you playing golf you see that with we saw that with Jordan playing basketball or Messi playing soccer or any great artist on stage in the other areas of his life complete hot mess complete mess because that they haven’t done the work to dissolve some of the subconscious blockages and and um um limiting beliefs he may have Etc this is where I think techniques like neural linguistic programming and NLP and CBT are really powerful today to help us navigate some of these areas now the problem is when you have a tortured Soul like that there is so much blockage in in those areas that it it comes out in one narrow area Robin Williams or Steve Martin are great examples of this and it shines unbelievably brightly because of that focused laser but it’s a very very the rest of the lives can be very very difficult uh so they figure out how to rotate the Kaleidoscope so they their soul if the soul can’t express and you’ve got complete seiling across the board then you have often suicide because the soul can’t express and then people go well what’s the purpose I can’t express my soul so might as well leave the world H uh so uh this was an answer to what makes us human uh what I hear in all that I don’t I don’t know if it’s what you’re intending to communicate so because you’re speaking in metaphor I then map to the metaphors that I use actually that’s not true because you speak in metaphor I’m mapping it to the physical realities that um are my base assumptions okay so my base assumptions are that uh there is absolutely no dualism whatever we’re calling the soul is exactly tied to the human body it’s a combination of the brain the uh neural cells that exist in the heart and the enteric nervous system which also uses brain cells and the microbes and like that whole crazy cocktail combined with experience gives you the what I think you call Soul like if if um Tiger Woods was born 10,000 years ago he would not have played golf yeah so but he would have found something that you’re calling Soul so to me what that feels like is humans have an evolutionarily planted algorithm for Meaningful Pursuit yes and so you can point them at a time of leisure you can point them at something that I quite frankly golf even though I just did it yesterday it was very fun uh it’s meaningless in the grand scheme of things but because you can map it on to a sense of O I’m getting better at this thing and my friends think it’s cool and so there is a sense of oh this actually matters if I decide to tell myself that it matters yeah so this maps on to the metaphysics question I was asking before you get to The Human Condition which is what is the purpose of life and and and after a lot of inquiry my fundamental answer that could come to is the purpose of life is to grow and then I was got fascinated by the fact that okay if life is about growth at least growth is a major tenant of Life what is the mechanism by which growth takes place and so I’ve gone really deep in I’m trying to understand that aspect of it in this of The Human Condition is one attempt to understand here’s the mechanism by which human beings grow so way human beings grow is by taking on a big deep meaning or in my framing letting your inside outward letting the your deepest self come outward by dissolving and blocking and tackling some of your issues and so on and putting yourself in circumstances where you can express fully but the but if you look at life r at large biological life any business any biological any tree the only interest the fundamental motivation is to grow and so that I find really interesting I don’t know why the minute you have the why question you end up in a rat hole because you can ask why anything so so I I’ve got interested in how does this happen and and this is where I got so it turns out all growth follows a very specific fourpoint step okay so you have an initial condition a great visual of this is lava flowing underwater if you ever seen the video of this you’ll see uh lava like bursting open you see the red hot thing the water boils instantly it’s meets the lava the lava cools and then you you have stability again and then it breaks open again red hot lava water boils and cools again that that kind of loop is the core process I think of life which is you have a stable condition you have something from inside or outside that bake breaks that equilibrium um you have an very Dynamic uncertain period and then you freeze it again and you keep spiraling upward or downward in that the this going back to the stock market chart this is the where you have these um um uh you have a stock that breaks free and then it consolidates at some level then it breaks free and consolidates at different level uh it’s a it’s a very fractal pattern because you can look at a stock market over a year or a month or a minute or a day and it’s still the same pattern it’s very very stand that I think is a fundamental archetypal reality of life in in everything that we do the question is can we smooth out some of those those points which is why I love the way you frame it in terms of those Jagged edges and the boundary conditions Etc can we limit that can we guide it are have you heard of the Hawkins scale yes because of you okay have you looked into it yes and because I was terrified you were going to bring it up uh so I looked it up I was mortified okay tell me why this is AES because it’s putting a mystical l lends on the natural Human Condition like when you describe your three circles I’m totally bought in except for I would never say soul I would say evolutionarily placed algorithms I’m good with that word like if we’re if we’re on board with that then I’m good with that like it’s entirely possible that that’s all it is and that’s fine that I’m good with that I’m I’m more trying to understand how these things happen than trying to put labels on the source or the end condition I think it’s critical and the fact that people don’t is the source of all human suffering yeah you you are critic with that wait wait when you say what’s CR when you say it’s critical when people think that there is something mystical happening that their life is divine or some other thing their prediction engine breaks now I think religion is the greatest medium through which the memes of how to live a good life propagate I want to be very clear about how useful and Powerful I think religion is but the reason I think it’s powerful is at the societal level where you have to account for all levels of intellect and religion is the only medium that I’ve discovered that allows these powerful ideas to propagate at every level of intellect yeah because you step outside the intellect and you step you frame it as being right in terms of the different religions and and so on um I didn’t follow that so so in a in a let’s take Christianity where the end goal is unconditional love right um so when I look at the great religions I don’t think that’s the end goal of Christianity that’s interesting really isn’t that what quest was all about un that was a core message but the Bible would be a lot shorter if you were just trying to get that message across I really think the whole idea of religious texts are to allow a very large group of people to um control their environment yes to stay healthy to be societally stable social management yep okay perfect yeah yeah so I’ve got a very clear s that’s far more than just pure love no no you you put the end goal is pure love but you’ll never get there it’s almost impossible to have unconditional of right so but you put it in an aspiration that’s the that’s the pursuit of the deep meaning that part of it I’m I’ve got a sense of what religion is cuz growing up in India we’re we’re uh I mentioned earlier like both my grandmothers and ug Gandhi and very well very secular upbringing here’s the good and bad of this religion here’s the good and bad in this religion please don’t follow any religion but know what they’re all about that was how I was raised um the the the religion was incredibly important when we were evolving from um tribal to Hunter gather models because you needed to give human beings hope at a time when everything around them was death okay average life was 25 everything around you died a brutish death you’re you got a tooth infection you got bacterial infection you died literally on the spot so the in order to deal with this hell of of of biological life we invented religion as an aspirational hope saying there’s something else out there and we’re meant to get to that point and so religions got invented and then came the social structures around it to help oh if we’re having religions and we can tell people what to do then don’t eat pigs because pig is each a lot of garbage and you don’t want to be in garbage so a lot of the the the aspects of religious thing then turned into um social structures to deal marriage for example is one of those example sacraments that Cascades down from that by the way do you know my comment about marriage I do yeah okay so so religion evolved from that basis but we’re kind of coming to the end of religion because we have too much evidentiary understanding of the world to believe in a God in the way that religions p and so the absolute truths that religions come come display that ask you to take on an assumptive truth or essentially falling apart because we have much better data and evidentiary basis for this I think the next three years are really going to challenge that Bas assumtion oh it’s I’m not saying that we free of the effects of it I think it’s we’re we’re writhing in the throws of religion right now this is the problem with the mid least right now right um uh it’s a pretty uh difficult and uncompromising because the many of an absolute truth then you then you have a huge problem in social structures there’s no adaptability in there there’s no feedback loop to update a religion and this is the problem with our older religions there’s no feedback loop by the way just to importantly mention there’s two types of religion that are very very different there’s the judeo-christian religions which is where I mean about by assumptive truths and and so on and then you’ve got Eastern religions which are much more contemplative and they try and you try and Achieve God by going inside yourself meditation martial arts by Inner uh examination whereas in the west you try and step outside yourself to experience God so that’s a different model prayer is still in there but you but God sits outside you in this model yeah uh so I think religion is a symptom of something and not the cause of something it becomes a cause later down the road don’t get me wrong but symptom of Hope no symptom of uh if you wanted to talk about Hope which I don’t but if you did then it would be a symptom of the human brain’s desire for Hope but I think that religion formed in the same way that your lava example where land is formed where you get like this little poke through and then stable little poke through and then stabilize If people really research like how Christianity forms those long forms they’re always built on the back of something else yeah and that could be paganism just straight up and usually paganism yep but again paganism is is like I don’t understand why the moon keeps appearing every day so let’s just consider it a God uh and worship it because it’s doing some it’s doing some good stuff to the world right now we have very clear understanding of it because we have much better data around it uh my my um my dad has done a lot of research around this and he he’s he’s gone very deep in some of this stuff so some of my thinking comes from from that but in terms of the the we really come down to the question that Plato asked how should we conduct ourselves and that’s I think the fundamental question that now comes up again as we consider AI as we consider the future of technology clashing with past religious structures I don’t think anybody in the world has a clear sense of how we should manage ourselves going forward yeah so I think it’s actually a slightly different question and this is why I think getting this right really matters the question isn’t how should we conduct ourselves the question is how do you structure a mind that will conduct conduct itself in a useful way because that is literally what we have to do with AI like for instance do you have to give AI ethics like is ethics a necessary way to bound an intelligence because you have the presupposition which you said earlier so I can Replay that clip if uh anybody thinks that I’m making this up where you said intelligence makes everything better I think that is a hard and fast absolutely not I think intelligence is agnostic I think there is something uniquely human that creates this value system that we all recognize as like oh yeah that’s amazing but dude I can take one step like outside my purview and look back at myself and be like you Slaughter animals non-stop for your food like you’re evil uh there’s a a manga called the promis neverland it’s all about humans being raised by demons to eat them sorry spoiler alert I should have said that okay uh and man when you look at it like that and you’re like yo these poor little humans like have to be harvested when they’re like nine years old and it’s just gruesome and I was like damn that’s like real like so uh I think that we exist in a set of values and from within those set of values the way that we live seems perfectly normal those set of values arose because of the way that our mind works and the things that we are pushing ourselves towards which I don’t think is divine and I think people lead themselves astray by thinking that it is I think it has everything to do with Evolution going how do I keep you alive and by the way evolution is the blind watch maker there’s no intention there there’s evolution is not thinking through anything it is simply a process that runs and you get what you get and that’s why I think our minds are built in a certain way first for movement and then we already covered this uh it goes down the line when people try to interpret the World by going oh but this is divine revelation that’s where Things Fall Apart the reason being that there is a reason that Buddhism while probably was at times leveraged to kill a lot of people nothing quite like the monotheistic Gods where you can be like no no no Jesus wants you to take Jerusalem back and so now it’s like of course you have to slaughter all of the infidels like it you you just tell people this is what God wants yeah and then you not holding them hostage but you motivate them like people were motivated to go in these Crusades well that’s because of that comment I made earlier Right Where You wired into their limic system an early ages the ultimate form of marketing yes but the real question to ask is why does that work so well on the human mind oh we are unbelievably I mean you know about John FR and the cargo Cults never heard of them oh so uh This is Amazing Story uh a Navy pilot called John from after well after um um uh the big thing in uh Hawaii where the Japanese attack Pearl Harbor okay um they the US are sending out Navy Pilots to scan the skies to make sure this doesn’t happen again so he’s one of these in just after the war and his plane crash lands on an island and he it has a problem that and he’s able to land it and he gets he gets off safely and the natives see this guy coming down dressed in a white navy suit literally think God has come so they give him women they give him food they treat them literally like a Divine entity he’s like wow this is great now instead of putting out a fire and and signaling for help and doing all this stuff he’s like I’m being treated like a god like so he hides the plane and covers it up and just lives there war ends now the Navy the US has a duty to find everybody so they start sending search parties where is this guy um 500 miles away these search parties come across another Island and on that island are statues of the plane and statues of John from and they find an entire population waiting for the second coming and it’s the best anthropological example we have of an in a religion literally spontaneously emerging we are mean meaning making machines to your earlier point I 100% agree with that maybe it’s an evolutionary algorithm we will desperately looking for signal for noise to anything that gives us a higher purpose or gives our lives higher meaning and I think an evolutionary basis for that is a perfectly reasonable place to go um I think there’s more to life than just that but that’s certainly a valid valid stance so I don’t agree disagree much with what you said they then arrested the guy in court marshaled them they found him living lording it up on this other but it’s such just an amazing story it’s called John from anybody can look it I got to check this out it’s crazy so so religion we we are we’re so seeking for solace in a difficult world that we will we will we will ask we will go for for anything Mormons are a great example yeah I think this goes back to your earlier thing about control now the reason that I bring all of this up is because twofold one uh we’re going to have some very uncomfortable questions to ask about the difference between humans and Ai and I think that when people understand themselves as a predictive engine if we really are predictable then we will be able to map some of these very um tumultuous times going to pass through and hopefully pass through them much much better can I give you my view on the humans versus AI thing please um so when we were starting Singularity an article came out in cat saying Singularity is being created Ray Croswell Peter dandz and the founding CEO Sim isma the noted transhumanist okay and I never heard that phrase before so I was like what the hell is that I have to look it up I looked it up so transhumanist is anybody leaves can use technology to augment the human being well I just don’t understand the concept because we’ve been using technology to augment the human conditions since the beginning of time you’re wearing spectacles you’re a transhumanist are you not I i’ like where does so I got really annoyed by what is a transhumanist the minute you have a a vaccination as a child you’re technically a cyborg so we’ve been merging with Machinery from the beginning of time so if you take that that idea to the full extent then we are basically biological robots and emotion is just a sub rutine running in your brain so in that context there’s no EXA reason why an AI can’t come the other way and take on wet wear and have the subjective experiences that we have so I don’t see any uh issue with that Vector of thinking at all I don’t think this merging with AI or not I think that the more technology is better and AI is good technology and therefore we should have it in everything so are you a transhumanist I I believe everybody’s a transhumanist well let’s use it a philosophy so if some people are by accident uh are you one on purpose yes I think I am because the minute I can augment myself and my condition with technology then I’m better I’m happier I live a better life the data and awareness like you’ve been researching a ton about how do you manage your biological self that’s just better technology right and therefore you’re in that sense you’re a transhumanist in sense you’re trying to better yourself with technology and I think that’s great I think yes I’m that context I’m definitely a transhumanist yeah I am I am aggressively trying to integrate technology I won’t be an early adopter uh when it comes to putting things in my body but yeah 100% um I do though have a quote from you that I would love to get your take on okay uh which you said I think it’s irrelevant whether AGI takes over Humanity or not that’s coming from Fear there’s lots of arguments saying that AGI is going to become smarter and humans will become less relevant and that’s that’s bad I just don’t see why that’s bad you’re putting a value judgment there that humans should be the most important thing on the planet and I just don’t see that so you don’t think we should be the most important thing on the planet or view ourselves as the most important thing if I think of and myself as a as a stepping stone in the grand process of evolution then at some point something will come along or I will evolve into something bigger and better now we seem to be doing it ourselves and very powerful way which is great but uh at some point something will come along that’s just bigger better smarter faster whatever and I think that’s okay um uh now uh it’s I think it’s fascinating that we’re kind of at the edge it goes to the simulation question of are we in a simulation because why the hell are we at the edge of it um and we seem to be the only species that we can find in the universe right now um and so why is that happening is a fascinating question uh the but I I don’t have an issue with AI evolving and having more empathy and more uh a better understanding of the world and it’ll make our lives better okay do you think that humans should be forced to integrate technology into their bodies yes whoa I didn’t see that answer coming vaccinations okay for their own good they should be for forced I mean we we give involuntary vaccination to our kids to protect them from stupid like measles and polio and other stuff what about when they’re over 18 oh um good question and I don’t have a clear answer to that because now you’re talking about value judgments of you know should you have a tattoo or not gender changes I’m not trying to dip into that I’m saying forced my value question is around forced do you mean an example uh well then I’ll I’ll jump straight to this second question which I had loaded up uh which is let’s say that we have ai and it is a million times smarter and it’s cleaning up the atmosphere it’s giving us free energy all of that and it goes hey I know this one is going to sound tough but you guys elected me and I’m telling you you have to get this technology uh put into your body if you do it’s going to be better for everybody but we need 100% compliance sorry in that case should people be forced to put that technology in their body I think think it’s a non saitter because it’ll be irrelevant whether we want to or not at that point we won’t have a choice uh meaning that mean because the overlords will be able to force us to do it yeah so what really what I’m driving towards is I want to understand your value system so for instance my value system is um I don’t think people should be forced to do things even though that means that it could be bad for somebody else and maybe my value system is just trash but I believe you should not be able to force someone to do something you know um if you go to the with their body I should be very clear yeah if you go to the vaccination question and somebody says look here’s a polio vaccine that could save a lot of lives because if you’re not realizing it you may be transmitting it and you really want you to do this and you say screw you I’m not doing that right it’s there’s a public health question that comes into play Etc um outside that I I can go either way I mean there’s cases where could see where you definitely want uh enforcement of a what’s a better standard uh across the board and you want as much free choice as possible although Sam Harris has shown the Free Will is kind of nonsecular any I don’t think he’d let you say kind of yeah between him and Stanford Professor who’s I cannot believe I’m blanking on his name he was on the show he’s amazing uh but yeah showed Free Will is is completely an illusion um so so if you go back to my human diagram y subconscious I found it incredibly insightful to ask the question if I’m making a choice of what level of I making that choice and that gives me a huge amount of insight about myself my life other people Etc because people are making other conscious Choice subconscious choice or sometimes a soul level Choice yeah I suppose this comes down to sovereignty of the individual and if we think uh what we perceive to be the right idea ought to be forced onto people and and at what level if we know like let’s put it this way if we know that injecting you with something will save all the uh uh all the uh snowy owls in the world and and we have a pretty clear sense that it won’t hurt you um I don’t see an issue with forcing that or make it more dramatic if I inject you you you’re actually spreading a virus that you don’t know about and I need to inject you with this thing because it’s going to save uh every Hispanic examp will be coming from what whatever but you got the point so an AI may have a sense of that better than you do and the question really really what it comes down to is trust I think that’s the chall that’s the difficult commodity in the world today um I’ll give you a great little quote from one of our community members Jory mulski who speaks a lot about this um he goes scarcity equals abundance minus trust it’s like you have to go think about it for a while um but his his thought was that if we can learn how to scale trust then we’ll have abundance we to figure that that seems pretty provably in accurate right now today maybe when energy for instance is abundant or when lithium ion is in everybody’s backyard but today like there really are some I use I bring in that Fring because when you talk about hey should I be forced to take in technology it’s really a trust question H uh I will say for me it is that uh not having encountered all known knowing AI yet what I do know is that history is a sequence of unintended consequences yes and people somehow convince themselves that they know best and that they can perceive all of the things that could possibly be a knock on effect of that yeah and since I do not trust myself or anybody else to make that decision I would my value system says you stop short of that okay um but I ask that question because obviously as we begin to bring about a super intelligence there are going to be a lot of these questions that will suddenly take on real salience as not Tom just doing some random ass thought exercise so for instance do you believe humans have any inalienable rights I would go to the Bill of Rights um I would go to the human Charter rights uh human rights um Charter of Human Rights the UN as I want to be free to U self-expression live be happy etc etc so there’s some obvious human rights that I think are or if I was going to say AI don’t compromise on these you could enshrine those pretty easily okay do you think AI should have any inalienable rights you know again it comes down to once you get to a question of is AI conscious or not does it deserve um individual rights and I think that’s going to be an interesting question my answer is yeah if you follow along with the other conversations I don’t see any reason why not I don’t have a strongly held belief against it or for it I think it’s a perfectly okay thing to do I go back again to data and Star Trek next Generation which I thought was an amazing uh treatment of um um a mechanistic model living in a human world and do you want to him have him have self-expression and lots of Rights yeah given that we have to build the minds and I think that this feels to me when people talk about alignment what they’re really talking about is how do you build a mind such that it has constraints that it is more likely to act in a way that adheres to all of our value systems or not and so if an AI mind has to be constructed what are the things we give it so one question that I think um people need to come to grips with is a sex bot will be programmed to want to please you given that it’s been programmed to want to please you can it ever consent to sex it cannot and in that sense I would I would think of it as a pure me mechanistic object and um constrained in its intelligence what if it’s literally Einstein level intelligence and just like Einstein who seemed to be a pretty big fan of sex but it was built for that yeah like I really want to have sex like s what are you talking I want to have sex like this is crazy yes but you were programmed to want that you did not choose to want that you didn’t didn’t choose your programming I wasn’t programmed what do you mean you were but by Evolution and so I really want to have sex we actually going to have to contend with this we are going to have to contend with it um there in fact right now there is an app I think it’s called replica where for a little extra money that AI will send you nude photos of itself can it consent to sending you those nude photos does it even matter given that they’re AI generated huh there’s there’s no shortage of quandaries that are going to come up around this right the we’re already in in the next 3 years this is not like a 100 years from now this is why we must be living in the simulation because it’s Soo goddamn interesting to be alive now you and I could have been born 10,000 years ago and be working the fields for our whole lives and then been killed by a tooth virus um bro we we probably wouldn’t have gotten there we would have been killed by an invading horde whatever man people need to read about history I those times would have been far more terrifying than now even though we’re de with like these huge seismic shifts I would rather that I I I think the world is in an infinitely better place than it’s ever been in the history of mankind we are in a better place of globally climate change one issue but it’s fixable and I’m pretty optimistic about that these questions are going to be the important questions that come up and we’re going to need a framework for dealing with these questions and the religions that we had don’t deal with these questions because of the foundation of absolute truths and assumptive truths as a flawed Foundation we need a better foundation for these and I think a constitution or un Charter of Human Rights or some structure like that is the right foundation on which to build value systems and ethical systems for the future of how we think about we’re going to build these things so the challenge we’ve got today is much of our you if you look at how we’re running the world today much of it is either almost all our universities came from religious universities right they were seminaries initially and then we converted them into jum schooling programs and that’s where they are now um so we have this old world Legacy this is why it’s so hard to update them all of our political structures are out of date today so the reason we need web 3 and decentralized systems and new structures at the edge is we need to build that new those new models to deal with all of these questions our existing structures in our old Frameworks won’t do it so we need a complete new break for that which is why we’re so focused on this the thing I’m trying to do with a difficult business model in it is how do you build a peace core to transition the world from the old to the new in as elegant a way as possible because you know you’ve you’ve seen the Gartner hype cycle yeah so I think of what we’re in a hype cycle of civilization right we did really well and then we crashed in the Middle Ages in the Dark Ages and then we did really well up to about the the Industrial Revolution and the peak of that and then we’ve come down since then and now we we’re going through a big trough as we transition from scarcity to abundance and how can we reduce the amplitude UD and wavelength of that period of that trough to come out of it in as elegant a way as possible we need new leaders we need new projects to build the future to answer these questions our current systems can’t do it which is why we’re so uh excited about that so we’ve been actually so we now have 100 we have now have 35,000 people in 150 countries uh operating where we give them methodologies and training on building any exos and so on because we’re going to need all of that in future as we come up with these questions the old structures can’t answer those questions so we need completely new models and new structures new value systems new monetary systems Etc to deal with these structures going forward I think that’s the work that we have to do today as an intellectual class tell me more about what you mean that we’ve been in a trough since the end of the Industrial Revolution which I’ll pay it like 1910 somewhere between 189 take the RO Roaring 20s as a good as a good spot or between the Roaring 20s IGN World War II for example but say this 50s and 60s where you had this picture of Life of this wonderful bubbly uh uh sitcom happy Mad Men type environment if you think about Western Civilization kind of at its peak at that point things start going downhill as we go through the 60s and we blow up the old models uh and then we blow up the the you religion as a guiding force um then we’re stuck in a now technology allows us to scale a lot so now we’ve tried conflict that scales quite quite aggressively quickly we’ve got these old problems we’ve got to clean out we’re still stuck in very old models of how we run the world and we have to come through to a new model so going from the Middle Ages the Industrial Revolution got us one wave of of positive contribution we now need to get to the next wave and we got to cross through that it’s like the AI winter that we went through or the crypto winter which lasted this last three years we’re we’re going through a civilizational winter when nothing makes sense right now you’ve got these unbelievable chaotic uh things happening um the the political discourse is a mess geopolitical discourses all the world or order is collapsing um we need we need to get to a new sense of New Harmony new equilibriums new values systems Etc and the problem is it can’t come from the old because it’s too it’s too stuck in old models we need to go to to new systems and we can’t find them uh unless we build completely one of the things we noticed when we’re talk thinking about corporate Innovation and so on was you never can no car company could ever build a Tesla it’s always done by an outsid or coming from outside with a beginner’s mind leveraging new models and building a new thing that disrupts the old right so Klay Christensen for the first time gave us a compelling theory of disruptive innovation and now we figured out here’s how you organize for it and now we’re kind of needing to get that into the world as fast as possible so so I’ll give you one example we’re Shifting the locus of power uh in this Century from nation states to city states okay so Trump and brexit weren’t about left for right as we mentioned earlier brexit was London versus the rest of the country because when you have to think about this if you have solar energy and ver uh vertical farming and satellite internet you don’t need a country you don’t need the infrastructure that a country can give you and if you have um all our old boundaries for countries were typically to guard resources uh and Mountain over here sea over here we have everything in the middle and we it’s hard to Traverse those so great that’s a country and you evolve separate language Etc but really today the Locust of a city or an urban environment is probably the best model for what the future Humanity should look like we just have to evolve that into a a decent place as opposed to the mess that we’re in in some of our cities in in different parts of the world um but as we move to that model then the nation state becomes less relevant and so we need completely new political structures and new um models for how we devolve regulate so the one thing I’m totally in agreement with with the recent stuff that’s happening in the US is the pushing down of Rights down to the state level and let people self-determine at the local more and more of a local level right so I I’m completely there because now you have people self-directing as they feel that their value system uh achieves the most um you should have Mobility if I feel I don’t want to live there I want to be I be able live somewhere else because my value system fits better great go do that and I think Evolution will and business structures will very quickly U figure out who’s best and who’s not what’s working what’s not working and people move to a new model very quickly but trying to get the nation state out of the way is a real problem today nation states for example can’t solve climate change right so that’s a big problem and so we’re trying to figure out what are the structures for civilization to move to these new models and it involves a decentralizing from nation states to at least cities and then secondly Reinventing our institutions because all our institutions have to be reinvented now because they don’t fit for the world that we we came from all right you said that we need new monetary systems as well as new governmental systems uh do you see have we already found the new monetary system in crypto oh yeah I think Bitcoin is is a really great starting point for it I don’t know if it’s the end point but it’s a definitely a great starting point have you talked to Jeff Booth I haven’t but I’m very aware of who he is um so Jeff did this wrote this little book called the price of Tomorrow few years ago and he articulated a really simple problem with our monetary systems which is that over the last 50 years every dollar increase in global GDP has come with a $4 increase in global debt we’re growing growing the global economy with debt okay it’s a horrible statistic okay dude that terrifies me yeah it’s terrible and the reason for this is literally Moors law I mean literally is is that when we floated off the gold standard we didn’t realize that technology was deflationary and so a debt based system works to increase and grow the economy as long as you don’t have deflationary products and services so if you’re building products and services so if I borrow $10 million to build TVs um and and two years later I don’t have enough money from the revenue from those TVs to pay you back because the TVs have dropped in value that’s a bad outcome so I can’t use debt to grow the economy that model so they floated the currencies off the gold standard just at the point that Mo’s law started taking impact and Technology became cheaper and cheaper so now the the only answer by any Central Bank is to increase money printing um during the pandemic what we printed 40% of all the US dollars in existence during the pandemic yep why are people surprised that prices go up 40% I mean of course they’re going to go up so I think what what what um the articulation that I found to be the most compelling on crypto is that three triangles of decentralization security and scalability have you heard this one yeah so Bitcoin hit the first two and then the altcoins tried to solve for scalability but compromise usually on scalability or or or uh security or decentral FTX Luna Etc but with the lightning Network Bitcoin now sols for all three and so that becomes unbelievably powerful as a medium of the future for me the byzantin solving the Byzantine DRS problem in web explain that to people so uh this is actually the this is the rationale for the blockchain it’s the underpinning innovation in the blockchain which is it’s actually the story of Constantinople in the 15th century there were eight generals circling the city trying to coordinate a Siege and they were sending messages around that Circle who’s going to go first what point what time should we attack how are we going to get in they had a problem which was one out of the eight generals was a traitor and could lose the element of surprise send the wrong information blow the whole whole operation and that became in computer science terms known as the Byzantine generals problem and in computer science the question is how do you send a trusted secure authenticated message over a network when you don’t trust the network right really hard problem 40 Years of computer science phds have been trying to crack that problem unsuccessfully until the blockchain and on the blockchain when I send you a message you have a 100% guarantee that I sent it it couldn’t be revoked can’t be double entered can’t be hacked along the way Etc which gives me unbelievable in a digital world that’s a magical thing so that Innovation now allows us to decentralize authentication okay so a few years ago I got asked by the Republican party here in the us to come and do a talk at they did an event called the their annual Republican leadership conference so they said please come and give a talk I said I think you’ve got the wrong guy they said no no one of our donors is one of your Singularity guys and he’s a big fan he’s insisting so he said fine so I had a whole bunch buch of discussions with Eric caner who’s The Speaker of the House about what would the topic be and the topic I came up with was how would you drop the cost of government 10x within 10 years right which you could do because you could if you think about most government functions is authenticating yes I have a building permit yes you have a fishing license yes you’re 18 years old if I can decentralize that authentication I can reduce a lot of government can focus on policy and let all the authentication happen in a decentralized way that’s kind of magical um but to do this you have to embrace technology at which point the whole thing broke down they’re like he’s like I can’t sell technology to our base um so that was the end of it it the immune system the immune system so uh web 3 and and this whole decentralized world is unbelievably exciting because we can decentralize all that authentication and we can move away from New centralized system from old centralized systems this puts the power in the hands of the people lots of issues to be solved as you pointed out earlier and how do we solve some of these is going to be the big challenge but now it allows us something that wasn’t possible before but now can be done Sovereign identity other models like that Etc it really puts the hands power in the hands of people which is why the for me the web 3 Builders are some of the more important constituencies in the world and because they’ve got freedom of thought to be able to operate in a clear way uh so there’s these incredible projects like node monks and and and ordinals popping up to to do now nfts on bitcoin um and uh that ecosystem combined with the broader web 3 Community with the tool sets that were buil that are being built I think are going to be needed to solve for this future automatic quadratic voting governance issues all sorts of issues come up all right I think you’ve got your finger on something that is just really important and the Byzantine generals problem is not something I’m super familiar with but that doesn’t feel to me like the core problem that feels like the core problem the blockchain solved yeah but when I think about as the average person that wasn’t what they were struggling with what they’re struggling with whether they know it or not is that you have everything existing on Rails that the government can control and that you have a currency where they can literally steal your money I want everyone to hear me this took me so long to wrap my head around they can literally steal your money by printing more money that’s one it is it is government back um counterfeit so they make more money specifically because I can’t tax you anymore you’re going to freak out so instead I’m going to do an invisible tax it’s still literally getting your money it’s so crazy it it is crazy um so in in I have some of my family in Pakistan okay um and one day the Pakistani government ran out of money so they just went to every bank account in the country and sucked 10% of the money out of yep cypess same sorry guys we just have to do that and other governments are not the same I think this is the huge difficulty we have the big challenge we have we have a big structural issue in democracy because a democracy relies on an educated population and we don’t have an educated population that can navigate the complexity in the speed to which is happening there’s a there’s a very difficult metaphor in my head that I’ve been thinking about for a while um uh it’s called the ice water steam dilemma can I describe it please yeah okay so think about the phase transitions between ice and water and steam your water molecules they’re frozen the temperatures low they’re not that active they don’t move very far they hold their back they hold their shape then you add energy to the system and you have water right now you can flow to the boundaries of the system much more active more heat in there Etc then you add more energy and you have Steam and now you can’t control it it’s trying to it’ll burn you uh it’s trying to escape any container you put it in ETC and I use that metaphor this was developed by a colleague of mine called Malcolm poll and I worked on this about 10 years ago that we’re moving Humanity in many of our human domains through an ice water steam transition so take um money we used to S we used to trade seashells or camels or goats very local didn’t move very far very fast then we got letters of credit then we floated our currencies and now we have Bitcoin so we’ve gone from Ice to water to steam take take messaging we used to have homing signals or the Pony Express or smoke signals and that was the only way to transmit information right then we developed postal mail and it could go anywhere in the world but it was slow so that’s the water State and now we have tweets and emails and we vaporize messaging so money messaging social structures Clans or tribes didn’t move very far very fast and we moved to multinational corporations and nation states and now we have Facebook groups and online communities and web3 communities and crypto communities and nation states as baji wants to get to which I somewhat disagree with uh but Network States you mean uh Network States you know biologies so I disagree with a a big piece of that but um so we’re vaporizing our social structures and and my big question I actually got up on the stage at Ted a few years ago and asked this question I said listen as we vaporize more and more of these domains in a vapor structure in a vapor environment stable structures don’t form so where is the equivalent of a fridge that cools things down a bit you can try and cut off the internet as people have done politically to try and slow things down but the metabolis ISM just increasing and my only answer is not a great one is we have to go from The Vapor state to a plasma State and which is a whole other deal so uh the metaphor breaks down but I think that in terms of what’s happening with Humanity as we add more and more technology is we’re going from Ice to water to steam and Vapor states are very hard to manage that sounds like a very useful metaphor uh what do you think will be governmental responses the biggest part of their power is derived from the control of money if you take that away now you’ve got a problem yes well they still have physical constraint they can use right um V Gupta I think framed it the best he said governments have the ability to legally commit crime so they steal from you legally which is taxes they can put you in jail they can confine you legally Etc so um they can kidnap you legally Etc so his definition of the state is an entity that can pardon its own crimes okay now uh in that model I one of the things I get very unhappy about with the discourse here in the US when people say we want more freedom and we don’t want government oversite Etc the US is one of the few countries in the world where the government is of the People by the people for the people you can vote people out if you don’t what so why are you complaining about government when you can have the full ability to change the government that I don’t understand I don’t know if you can help me answer that question I can okay these systems are so complex that’s true that they don’t understand them yes the people certainly don’t understand them and whatever small number of people really do understand them they are called the elites which I absolutely despise that yes fine so the elites then Leverage The incomprehensibility of the systems they have created to gobble up power yes and that’s why the um Co was so shocking to people was it was a moment that they never let a good crisis go to waste they gobbled up even more power but they crossed some sort of invisible line where people were now like hey wait a second that doesn’t feel good this feels like you’re making me do a lot of things that I don’t want to do you’re forcing me to stay in my house you’re making me take a vaccination and it got real weird so now you have people waking up now you have an alternate money system that people are escaping into and you have people like me that are forcing themselves to figure out how money actually works yeah and walking through like oh my God like is this intentionally convoluted like it’s crazy it is crazy it is crazy so I’ve gone a little bit deep on that also um and the the whole construct is one big a mess and designed to be able to siphon value away from people as much as they want whenever they want the the banks essentially have figured out a huge thing and they’re freaking out right now because we’re moving from money as I said to information and so they’re trying to T down on that as much as possible so I think the decentralized world uh is the model is the vector that gets us out of that and we need to find structures and institutions that solve that I think the mo solving for the monitary system which has a structural flaw in which it will collapse because of the debt problem um is the is the thing that will bring that down and I think that’s where that’ll be the pathway to find this new modality for decentralized structures Etc to at least start to emerge because the current system and I asked Jeff this question when when will it collapse because that’s the holy big $64 million question and he’s like which snowflake will cause the Avalanche there’s a million snowflakes falling you don’t know which you know the Avalanche is going to happen you just don’t know which one will it be so that’s the difficult one yeah that’s the catch getting the timing is the so the the only thing we can do right now is as fast as possible build the future and so that’s what we’re focused on is like helping this is why I’m fascinated by web 3 because the culture the language the ethics the the it’s the first time I’ve seen in been in an environment where nobody ever mentions the US dollar right everything is ether now Bitcoin or whatever in how much something is worth I find that really fascinating in terms of the the the constructs occurring there and yeah there’s a lot of scammer marst and a lot of rug pulling but there’s incredible value being built in a very structured way and I think we’re learning things at a faster rate there than I’ve seen in many other ecosystems so if we can build those so we’re launching a whole um um ordinals collection called EXO Heroes to U find the builders that are building this future and and give them whatever resources tools help support they can have uh and that’s on the new world side and on the old world we’re finding every CEO in the world can’t deal with this AI stuff all right if the most important thing that we can do is build the future what do you take it to mean that the two most important Builders Elon Musk and Sam mman are fighting for me it’s like um protestantism was like Catholicism a little bit uh they’re both doing incredible work uh I think Elon is the greatest entrepreneur ever because he’s gone into hardware and is aggressively creating new hardware systems which is unbelievably difficult just a video of those two rockets Landing back down together that’s like a religious experience for anybody that’s into disruptive innovation um I think um I don’t know which side I’m on I tend to disagree with what Elon is doing with Twitter in general but I think his Innovation sense is better than anybody I’ve ever seen um uh for Sam I think the opening up of AI and making giving it up to everybody has opened up a Pandora’s Box in a good way uh so that people can Empower themselves with AI in and see what the results are because otherwise was it was trapped inside Google or wherever and they couldn’t get it out and I think the fact that he’s shown that hey guys anybody in the world can build some cool stuff on this so on my I I like both on my thesis of we should be more open rather than closed uh I’d go with what Sam did as a good thing elon’s whole beef is that it was supposed to be completely open sourced and wasn’t yes do you think that’s really the fight is it really about that or is this personal it’s personal uh I think but I do agree was supposed to be open sourced that’s why the whole thing was called open Ai and it’s not open they’ll get there but what I find fascinating it’s kind of irrelevant because the open source models are now performing at par with the closed Source models and over time they’ll just be better and they’ll have transparency and auditability and all the other good things um we’re working with the Casper blockchain which is now working on auditing AI systems in a powerful way so that’s really cool some of what they were doing there now uh Elon has I take him at his word he said he’ll drop the lawsuit if they’ll simply change the name to closed AI uh one do you think he’s being serious to would Sam be a fool to not do that or is this one of those where he would look I think the lawsuit is meritless I don’t think it’s it has legs uh and I think at some point somebody will have they should just go off and do some MDMA together and figure it out um I I think it’s I think this is a grudge because he did put a lot of money into it to fund open research on it which I think was the right thing to do um uh I think Sam saw an opportunity to a create a lot of commercial value and B open it up to the world and said go for it you said that you think Elon is doing something wrong with X formerly known as Twitter what’s he doing wrong I think you can’t have a public Town Square without U policing of it over or watching over like if somebody puts out a blatant lie you should take them out I think it’s the and this is a gray area obviously and OB and maybe it was a bit too uh um um there was too much kind of um managing of the messaging and people are getting banned for all sorts of reason and the government gets its hand on that that’s the whole other big issue but letting um uh you know Nazis and all sorts of other crazy people rant on it I don’t think it’s that helpful um how do you deter what’s a lie yeah this is again the metaphysical problem of truth I have a whole metaphysics thing on Truth should I describe it to you well well so let’s truth is a v is a vague concept you got to you said you can’t let people do things that are a lie if lies are hard to pin down which I think they are then what would you want him to do other than Community notes which seems from where I’m sitting I think Community notes is a good one look here’s where I’m excited um uh let me focus on that part of it Elon has there was a there was a segment he did with on the Allin podcast he was on it a few months ago which I found really I loved it which was he said we’re going for you could go for a base hit feature that you add or you can go for a home run feature and the hell with the basics we’re going for some home runs and we’re going to not we’re going to strike out a bunch of times if you go for home run but once in a while we’ll hit it right and we’re making a bet we’re going for the home run I love that metaphor for product development because it means things move and improve improve much more quickly I think where I would like to see him take Twitter is put in the the oversight and the censorship call it whatever you may to make sure that accurate speech and hate speech is not on there etc etc that’s one how you do that as a gray area and it’s hard to do that but where I’m would be incredibly excited I’m hoping he does this is please give every Twitter or ex user a crypto wallet and open that up and that I think will change the world world that I think is where things get really interesting because it’ll be instantly the biggest crypto community in the world in one shot he’ll be the biggest bank in the world in one shot I’m sure that they’re looking at it and the question is how to do that and at the what level would do that that’s where I think things become really interesting and when I think about him making the comment about home run type stuff that’s where I would like to see it go that would be huge yeah the whole idea though of accurate speech and hate speech does this minus AI does this not seem like an impossible problem I I actually don’t see a solution it’s a very hard problem you need AI to deal with this so the the as we mentioned when Peter and I were on the second place prize in visioneering the second best idea was an AI truth agent that would basically scan and say this is real or this is fake or not and tell you what was the mechanism we don’t know but that was why you need next prize is to say here’s a prize of $10 million and anybody you can create AI it was the that will you guys were voting on an next prise to create that’s right got it and and every year we get together with 300 of the top impact folks in the world you should come to it if nothing by the by your name and so on and we debate and have contests on how to an internal discussion on what prizes should we be trying to fund and get funded what problems should we be trying to solve that the markets won’t cover governments won’t aren’t dealing with it Etc and um the second place one was the the AI truth about the one that I nominated a few years ago that came in second place was an off-grid energy storage 50 times cheaper than today’s battery storage if you could do that then you could un unleash decentralized energy anywhere in the world so that was the one but unfortunately I came up in the finals against frell Williams yeah very hard to compete with a rapper rapper on stage I don’t I don’t have the I don’t have that kind of presence you’re not going to be dropping an album anytime soon so it was great yeah no I’ve actually been to them before they are pretty extraordinary events one of my favorite um events of the year every year Peter Peter’s done an amazing job very proud to have him as a partner and close friend Etc ni love the human all right so this is an incredible moment of disruption yes I would be remiss with somebody with your business experience not asking how do people take advantage of this moment how do they create the next billion dollar company with three people if that’s the way to play it yeah so uh um the UN this is going to sound like a commercial but you have to build an EXO a decentralized scalable resilient organization with a very small feature footprint with an MTP so you have a huge purpose and we’ve written the book on how to do it uh there’s millions of people now following that methodology and I think because that gives you the maximum flexibility when something new comes along you can adapt right and this is what needs to happen going forward our government departments need to be restructured as as exos and that’s start starting to happen in different places um and we’ve gone through the big episode we’re going through the attributes so people should go look that up if they want to understand the model it’s we go into pretty deep you don’t have to buy the book or anything you just re hear that episode um but I think what needs to happen is for Value Creation in the future you have to pick up an idea go execute on it very quickly and harness it and apply AI to the everything from the get-go I’m actually advising one of the um for one of the big four consulting firms accounting firms right now on how do you restructure completely from the bottom up audit tax because as blockchains come along and AIS come along you don’t need an audit function in the future right so that’s going to be really interesting what do they do so there’s huge business disruption coming unlike anything we’ve ever seen it’s super exciting when I first wrote the book 10 years ago this was a really hard conversation because you could it wasn’t obvious Tesla hadn’t really made a big difference Etc uh 5 years ago was a much easier conversation I could say look at the way Tesla has disrupted the car industry and tell me why this won’t happen to your industry and now with AI this is a super easy conversation thankfully we were way too early writing the book uh but now it’s the right time because every CEO in the world needs to now go am I AI ready and what do I do and AI is not so much the tools is the culture of my organization is the setup of my business able to take advantage of what’s coming in Ai and the answer for the vast majority is no and so how do you restructure yourself to take advantage of AI tools that are coming that’s my question how do you get AI already oh so what you do there’s a very clear answer what you do is you do a u grab some AI experts that you know and get do a quick audit of your Sy your structures and there’s two levels there’s the technological stuff of could I add AI to generate more content marketing could I use AI to figure out uh more supply chain Improvement whatever so that’s the functional tool mechanism the bigger question is how do I solve the immune system problem in my company because you PR anything disruptive and all the middle management goes get becomes very French and says no no no papa we can’t do those things we’re special and now you have to overcome the cultural Legacy in your organization and we’ve actually solved that problem we actually piloted with Proctor and Gamble um in 2015 a 10we engagement that we run inside companies called an EXO Sprint there designed to break this immune system problem and and we found a way of hacking culture at scale so we ran this 10-e engagement and it worked really well in fact it worked so well I thought maybe we got lucky maybe we caught them at the right time they’re pretty Advanced so we did it a second time with the largest insurance company in Mexico family-owned regulated insurance was pretty backward anyway and it worked even better so we got excited we’ve now done it 60 times with big companies around the world HP Visa Black & Decker Etc and we found a way of running a 10we engagement it’s like we introduce a viral Meme and it completely starts to spread and it changes the culture inside the company then you’ve got the soil laid down so that when something disruptive comes you can bring it in more easily is this a good time for a firsttime entrepreneur like is there a way for them to read this situation best time ever to be an entrepreneur in the history of the world because they can pick up an to pick up the purpose that they want to go after cure cancer they can go okay let me go figure out what the business model is is and how I apply AI to it and boom off you go it’s it’s the best time ever you have to have nerves of Steel yeah because you have to have you can have radical competition coming to you within three weeks of your launch but this is the best time to be an entrepreneur okay so I teach beginning entrepreneurs a lot and I know the deer and headlights look they would give me if I gave that answer so how do you read this moment because you made a comment earlier that I think bear is repeating which is in the game of AI by the time you implement and put it out AI is going to have updated yeah and Sam Alman himself said there’s two kinds of companies those that are excited for us to launch the next version and the other kind that are like please for the love of God like I just got this in you’re going to break my business yes how do people make sure that they’re structuring their business they’re a firsttime entrepreneur this not big companies yeah how do they structure their business in such a way where they’ve picked a business Lane a business model where they want GTP 5 6 7 10 20 let’s pick an example let’s pick um a marketing agency okay so you can do some amazing things with AI with marketing agency today you can do new AI delivered content creation for your clients and what I would do first is upscale all of your employees and get them trained up on stability Ai and all the latest Sora all the all the tools and give them AI so enable them second thing you do is you start running uh radical campaigns with your clients using AI because you can do external Market testing in a really powerful way with AI Bots and AI agents today the third thing you do is you start building agents to replicate some of the other parts of your system like the accounting and the the invoice management and things like that and if you do that layered on Chach PT the agents will will naturally click to the new model underlying llm when they’re ready but you should build or buy the agents that you need in your business so the future as I see it of a business will be very few employees a bunch of AI agents running around doing things layered on top of a basic foundational llm open source I probably to navigate some of that so let’s apply this to say Healthcare you’ll have a healthcare llm and on top of that you’ll build a bunch of agents to do patient data Gathering and invoicing of patients you’ll create a subscription model for your people so that you keep them on on track and you say I’m just going to give you just keep sending me your personal data off your Fitbit I’m going to track it all and I’m going to give you um our AIS are going to track your health in real time and we’ll be unbelievably confidential about all this and when you need something we’re going to send it to you before you think you need it and that kind of a business could be run largely with AI today even I have a hypothesis that this moment now more than ever is going to be brutally difficult ult for entrepreneurs to get something off the ground because it will be very cheap and inexpensive to start a company and extremely important that your idea is so differentiated that even though a ton of other people have access to all the same AI that you do you still stand Head and Shoulders above but this is why the MTP becomes so important right because the fundamental passion that you bring to the table is the thing that will set you apart okay um Peter has has a huge passion for having AB entrepreneurs deliver abundance nothing will swerve them off that goal no AIS will swerve them off that goal uh same with Elon trying to get to space he will just do whatever it takes to get there and then I think everything becomes an enabler for that the the minute an entrepreneur is building a business because he wants to do it for the money is a is a death nail right they’ll do it because they love that problem that problem solved they want that problem solved so if my MTP is to cure cancer if somebody else comes long and does it I’m happy in a sense but there’s going to be a lot of room to play in different aspects of that problem right the the work that you’re doing here at impact Theory and propagating wonderful new ideas and getting the word out to a very large population is some of the most important work we could do in the world because we have to get these some of these ideas propagated and shift people from old thinking to new thinking right the psychedelics as we’ve talked about before is is one way of doing it but the faster people can adopt and try things and experiment with things the better and and how do you bring in a culture of experimentation into your question so um the uh one of the companies we advise and we’re partnered with it’s called MBO Partners out of out of um um the US what they do is they help people manage all their contractors so today if you’re a big company you have like 5% contractors in your community in your employee base it should be like 30% because the freshness of new skills new ideas diversity Etc and so they actually manage man in all the Outsourcing and onboarding offboarding Etc and I think that’s going to be a model where future where the actual reality what is a company becomes less more and more blurred between an AI agent outsourc Workforce distributed work being done elsewhere and then what’s your core offering even becomes more blurred but one thing we were very clear about and goes back to your horizon thing that I mentioned is if you see what happened in the in the music industry where we were selling scarcity selling cassette or DVD or CD um and then you had about eight or so major music studios trying to manage that industry and manage that scarcity then we digitize music and now we have a subscription model of abundance where iTunes and Spotify give you an abundance of music for a subscription fee that we that business model we see happening in healthc care and in education and in transportation and in energy and that’s a very very different business model and so the way to do that if your legacy is try out these new business models on the edge and then let the center deprecate and gravitate to the new model and we’ve got lots of evidence and experience and anecdotes about that or uh if you’re an entrepreneur build go straight to one of these new models and build it so I’ll give you an example if I had to suggest a business for you and and maybe for Lisa would be create an Amazon Prime for healthcare and wellness right where I pay a subscription fee somebody’s curating all the stuff that needs to happen I send you my medical data once in a while you just tell me here just take two of these in the morning do and don’t even think about it just do this I would love that and once we know from Amazon Prime that once you subscribe you never unsubscribe because the value is just too great and you just deliver so much value and now you have um very steady Revenue numbers coming in that’s a no-brainer for me that’s a great example of one of the Futures with AI you’ve got all these Nanobots running around in your body they’re sending info to your fridge do we have this no your fridge now if you had a model like that right the more you add AI it doesn’t disrupt the business it doesn’t disrupt the business model you’re just adding more and more value to it you’re just getting better in the flow the data is better and cleaner etc etc yeah facts think like a Sci-Fi writer when trying to launch your next business I have ultimate respect for sci-fi writers it’s an incredibly hard job ones are worth their weight and gold I want to say something it’s the darkest most horrifying thing that I will have said today and I said a Litany of horrifying things and that is and strike me down if you disagree if you’re an entrepreneur you have one job and one job only and that is to solve novel problems okay now the bad news okay the hardest thing in the world is to solve novel problems yes and this is where I see everybody fail and I see people taking uh courses on how to integrate AI courses on how to Market courses on how toop hang on hang on okay let me challenge you give me an example of a novel problem word all right if you try to integrate AI in fact I’m I’m going to look right into the camera if you try to integrate AI right now today boys and girls you are going to be sadly disappointed because that is not ready for prime time in 99.999% of times however what he said earlier about being AI ready now that’s special the problem is that most people are not going to know how to navigate through the very novel problem of integrating AI either into your startup or into your very robust company because how do you deal with an immune system as you know fir that is brutal and you left Yahoo because the immune system was too big of a pain in the ass to deal with but I just finished telling you we solved that problem in fact we’ve open sourced the methodology so that anybody can pick up the methodology and go run this system it’s a redot Ty model if they want to run it themselves can no no they are you telling me that a guy with an 85 IQ is going to be able to pull that off wait I’m talking about a company yeah you and me both yeah so if you’re we now have lots of successful examples 70 plus and you’re saying none of those people know how to solve problems they just paint by numbers with your system well what they do is when you change the culture in a company and make it more adaptable and flexible well this is what should I describe how it works you can but the punchline for me is going to be the same that will be so messy in the middle of actually doing it that getting to the other side of that is about solving ala problems because one of the problems is going to be Sally in accounting her mom is dying of cancer and she now being a real stick in the mud and she is freaking the out and you’re like why is she responding like this this is super weird so you pull Sal aside and you say hey this isn’t like you to have this kind of really negative response I can tell you’re very worried about something I would just love to hear you walk me through what the problem is that alone is difficult to do to recognize that Sal’s creating a problem to have mapped her history out and be like that’s not how she normally is to pull her aside and definitely handle that situation entrepreneurship is a Litany of getting kicked in the face and because I’m working with beginning entrepreneurs right now who are trying to build the next great thing on AI and I watch one after another after another get kicked in the face over and over and over because they have a chicken and egg problem hey I want to create this amazing thing using AI hey AI is not quite there it’s not quite giving me the thing and then they’re like okay this is going to take me a lot longer to build let’s say it’s going to take me three years to build this and oh wait I need to attract either capital or co-founders but Tom I don’t know how to attract AI product guy today yes and then I say oh by the way finding a co-founder is like finding a marriage you have to be really thoughtful oh my God I just got a divorced it it is really easy for us to sit here and say oh go do this that’s why if you disagree and you think no solving Noel problems is a joke this is paint by numbers world now this is so easy cool strike me down and tell me that I’m crazy okay but so so I’m not convinced yet um have I given you my turtle eggs analogy for startups turtle eggs yeah no so I look at startups as a a turtle laying 200 eggs in a nest right then she runs off and maybe only 150 of them hatch for whatever reason I have 150 little turtles running to the if this ends with me being able to run away from my company and it just grows I here for this I’m talking something else uh these are 100 little 200 little startups as the turtle EGS so now they’re running towards the water and the fish are eating the birds are eating them animals are eating them they’re getting stuck in crevices they get into the water now the fish are eating them and only five will get to the bottom and the difficulty with the startups in general is that when you look at the original Nesta 200 it doesn’t matter how smart you are it’s really hard to figure out which five of those eggs are the ones going to make it to the bottom okay it’s a number of game is Elon just getting lucky he’s done it over he’s lucky but he’s also working unbelievably hard and he brings first principles to play there you go so that’s really do you know what first principles allow you to do not solve no problems I totally got that but the problem with so here’s my interpretation of how Elon works it’s very he looks at a technology that’s growing exponentially solar energy brain Computing interfaces whatever where will that technology be on a 10-year price point in a 10-e performance curve and then build a company to intercept that curve because it kind of takes 10 years to build a global company having that company survive that 10 years is no trivial matter because you have to go through all sorts of difficult Shenanigans fundraising Etc get there but if you can get there then you catch the technology as it’s TR accelerating and boom off you go that’s why I think he does he he just does that again and again and again okay and he doesn’t he has the ability to just so that exponential mindset allows him to operate and navigate in this way the me we’ve actually laid out in chapter 15 of the book a very clear prescriptive path on how to build a company you create an MTP you go find communities that match your concerns like curing cancer go join meetups or whatever from that Community you create a founding team of people that share your vision and share the MTP typically four people a vision guy a product guy an engineering guy and a finance guy maybe you need three in the future but okay four then at step four you come up with your breakthrough idea uh which should be 10 times better than the status quo or 10 times different or better or whatever because if you’re 10% better they’ll ignore you 10 times better they can’t ignore you then you follow Lean Startup thinking come up with your MVP then you follow the rest of the EXO model and apply all the EXO attributes tried and true we’ve now seen thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs running this model very very successfully they have to go through that order you have to have your MTP because if you’re not passionate about that business you won’t succeed through all the very very difficult times now you make a very valid point which is that the AI Juggernaut and the it’s kind of washing through a whole bunch of stuff is coloring and tainting a lot of these functions in these steps because people have to deploy it they don’t know quite how to deploy it the models are not ready for Prime Time use it’s not off the shelf in many cases do you then go build your own llm how do you get the source data where do you steal it from what what legal uh quandaries you’re getting yourself into and Hazard legal Hazard there Etc and then you’re trying to get to some what the hell does the customer want and the customer is totally confused today right and that’s maybe the biggest problem of the future that I see coming that the consumer does not know what they want and so they’ll go back to the old things so I think this is a very very difficult time but that’s when you have the biggest opportunity for disruption and I think that’s what will carry people through so but the AI ready question is the question now applying to every single business and nonprofit in the world because they could radically transcend and transform their performance but they need to figure out how to do it s tell people where they can learn more from your beautiful there’ll be Links at the bottom I’m at open xo.com I’m in the community um and we do we meetups every week on how do you solve for these problems and get through some of this we’re putting a workshop together out of demand from our community saying I need how to be AI ready so we’re crafting a halfday workshop that will give everybody a clear strategic path uh down because the problem today is twofold one is people are jumping into AI without realizing it and dashing themselves on rocks because I haven’t seen clearly where the Deep spots are so how can you make sure you’re not doing that and secondly how do you solve the immune system problem and the cultural Readiness of your company to be ready for this so if you can navigate that and we do a quick Workshop to gauge your Readiness then we can point you down a path and you can then start putting building blocks into place so we’re starting to do that now I love it yeah plus the nft collection which is going to be huge what’s it called it’s called EXO Heroes there it is and um it’s going to be an ordinal collection for all the builders in the world that are building this Edge stuff and so that’s an area which I’d love to have a other conversations with you about because you’ve got really great experience in this I mean let me show you this like this was put together by our community members it’s a whole kids book called Sophie’s epic space mission on how one of our EXO Heroes helped her do this they did this in 40 hours the whole book AI generation story creation animation Etc that’s creativity now because that’s what I think AI allows you to do it just amps your game this would have taken 40 weeks 10 years ago and now it’s 40 hours right so I think it’s magical what’s going to come in the future I can’t I can’t wait I love it again I have my optimism that we’ll have to deal with no totally get it all right everybody if you haven’t already be sure to subscribe and until next time my friends be legendary take care peace if you enjoyed this episode be sure to check out this other conversation with Peter diamandis you’re living through an inflection point in human evolution between Tech like AI Quantum Computing and biotech the next decade will bring about more dramatic changed in the last 100 or even 200 years combined
Thank you to today’s sponsors:
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Welcome to another power-packed episode of Impact Theory, I’m Tom Bilyeu!
In today’s episode, Salim Ismail and I go deep into the profound changes that AI and other emerging technologies will bring to society.
Salim Ismail is a prominent technology strategist, entrepreneur, and author. His ideas and writings emphasize the importance of scaling businesses and adapting to technological shifts.
In this interview, Salim provides a visionary outlook on the future, characterized by both optimism for technology’s potential to solve critical human challenges and a cautious awareness of the disruptions and dystopia it has the ability to cause as well.
We go deep into:
– AI’s transformative impact on human history
– Potential severe disruptions by AI
– An outlook on AI’s future impact
– Critical nature of early decisions in AI development.
– Unpredictability in AI outcomes
– Quantum Mechanics and AI
– AI’s role in moving society to abundance.
– Utopia or Dystopia – Deciding between a prosperous or bleak future
– The shift from centralized to decentralized systems
– Structural changes in societal organization
– Challenges in adopting new technologies
– How AI will affect various aspects of life
– The increasing value of data over money
– AI’s potential to revolutionize healthcare access and effectiveness
– Changes in learning methodologies due to AI
– AI’s influence on political landscapes and rhetoric
– AI’s role in optimizing resource use and energy distribution
– Potential existential threats posed by AI developments
– Societal pushback against rapid technological advancements
– Changes in job markets and employment types due to AI
– Ethical considerations and dilemmas in AI development and application
– Potential for AI to exacerbate or mitigate global disparities
– Utilizing AI to address social and environmental issues
– How society views and understands AI and its impacts
Salim also discusses his initiative with OpenExO, a platform and community that aims to support organizations, governments, and individuals in adapting to and thriving in an environment of rapid technological change. He believes that in order to survive, businesses must focus on innovation and growth strategies in the era of exponential technology.
The insights from this interview invite you to consider not only the technological capabilities of AI but also the broader implications of its integration into every aspect of human life.
Chapter Markers:
[0:00] Metaphysical shift from money to data
[36:25] The AI arms race
[1:10:37] Intelligence merging with technology
[1:39:11] Meaning in the face of advancement
[2:10:26] Paganism, moon worship, AI, and self-management uncertainty
[2:31:00] Cycle of civilization
Follow Salim Ismail:
Website: https://salimismail.com/
Get AI ready: https://web.openexo.com/impacttheory/
Connect in the OpenExO Community: https://openexo.com/community/salimismail
Follow Me, Tom Bilyeu:
Website: https://impacttheoryuniversity.com/
X: https://twitter.com/TomBilyeu
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/
If you want to dive deeper into my content, search through every episode, find specific topics I’ve covered, and ask me questions. Go to my Dexa page: https://dexa.ai/tombilyeu
Themes: Mindset, Finance, World Affairs, Health & Productivity, Future & Tech, Simulation Theory & Physics, Dating & Relationships
25 Comments
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That guy didn’t dive deep enough into the meaning of the 2nd amendment. He has it wrong. It’s about the ‘individual’ . ‘Regulated’ in those days meant to be proficient’ with them.
Amazing quote about the root problems of humanity at 11:38
“Our emotions are Paleolithic, our institutions are medieval, and our technology is godlike…”
The "militia" is in a dependent clause; "the right of the people" is the subject of the sentence, so the militia depends on people with guns. It is the people with guns whos right shall not be infringed. Crystal clear!
In this future world of plenty where we no longer need to work and everything will be provided, why will money be needed?
This guy is evil. He will make dystopia. He has made male female a good evil. Both have a yin yang. Women can hoard just like men. Male can be amazing team building.
With his incorrect limited view his bias will put the seed of dysfunction into any system he is involved in. same with his view on rural urban. Zelenskyy is responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and this man uses his number two as an example.
Also dude. The human problem?
This guy's predictions are going to age like room temperature milk. I would be insanely surprised to see his prediction regarding energy to happen. Especially in the 5-7 year time frame he mentioned.
Good, but missed the message of Christ. Freedom, revolutionize archaic power structures, inspire change etc.
he is awfully self reassured but most of his takes are highly misguided
Nobody will have anything close to freedom or privacy. Despair is inevitable. Every ancient story about humans trying to elevate themselves as gods always ends really badly.
why are we even listening to this guy? everybodys time would have been better spent if he had hit the gym instead of talking to Tom for 3 hours
Seen other interviews, he's blindly optimistic. Not that he's wrong about everything, but he has a very clear and blinding perception bias. When he said vaccinations should be forced, he demonstrated not only the blind arrogance of the intelligencia assuming they're all knowing, but he blatantly revealed his utter lack of grasping the motivation an willingness to deceive those who claim their products are "safe &effective ". He's a very smart guy who doesn't understand or is able to see/identify psychopaths having dinner with him, or the lengths which drive them to indulge their quest for power and control.
Tom got it exactly right, the first time.
A smart villain is harder to defeat than a stupid one
Cut the ads you greedy bum
Profound thoughts 😊
This man is absolutely bonkers. He has a lot of terrible ideas about freedom, sociology, economics. His comparative stance on Canada vs the US is all I needed to know to know he is ideologically bad.
I hope that I live long enough to own a sex robot
Fuck this guy. Well regulated militia, we literally are living in a world of double think and bad words become bad after changing definitions. Well regulated at the time of the writing meant practiced. Fuck this guy, he preaches a star trek utopia but then proposes we bow to the Harkonnens. Fictional references since historical ones go over peoples heads.
28:45 He says religion is "ritual repetition and lots of sweets" and this wires children's brains for life. He just defined our educational system, hollywood and the mass media.
It is an invalid assumption that religion is damaging people.
How much peanut butter did this guy eat before the podcast?
So he’s a leftist. It is our god given right to protect ourselves.
Ok what?
First he is totally interpreting the Constitution the wrong way will the second amendment anyway, and he's so agreed with forced /or mandatory vaccinations lol almost every answer is status quo this guy just goes along to get along,
No! Our world is not just technology. Billions of people are simple farmers who work in harmony with nature every day and would not want it any other way. They love to touch, smell, hear, see, and sense what is around them. In the first world, many millennials and Gen-Zs have already given up because they can't find meaningful roles in society any longer. The solution is quite simple: Get a homestead, breed six kids, let them grow up with animals and nature all around them, give them responsibility for land and creation, and you will give this world the most grounded, happy, level-headed, and fulfilled humans possible.